Re: Contemplating Lumbar Fusion

[Guest guest]

I just had it when they said about the tethered cord. Would I do it with anyone

else but Bolognese and Milharet heck no way. I'm more worried about the thoratic

spine than that. Although it didn't seem to straighten out the tethered cord and

I don't know how this is going to feel later since I was just released from the

hospital 2 days ago and not totally healed as you can imagine but I knew this

was going to have to be done sooner or later and as I said I am very thankful

they did it. I had the problem with the tethered cord of not having a bowel

movement for 3 to 4 weeks and the typical very bad pain during intercouse that

type of thing.

Hi All,

My doctor is recommending a lumbar fusion of the L4 & L5 disks. My

current situation is that though I have frequent pain and limited

mobility, it is not constant at this time. The problem is that I never

know what and when the back will go out and keep me from doing things.

Between the research I've done and the postings on here, I am

terrified to have this surgery. I am a relatively healthy and young

44 y.o. woman. I'm afraid that having the surgery may cause more

problems and pain down the line.

I'd like to know if there are any members who have had positive

results with this surgery because all I've been reading is the

negative stuff.

Thank you in advance for your input.

Gianena

---------------------------------

All-new - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.

[Guest guest]

I have never hdd this type of surgery , what I do know is that as you

progress in age it takes longer to recover from surgery.

I just had a simple arthroscopy on left knee what took a day to

recover from is now taking 4-5 weeks and at this point I am non-weight

bearing and in a wheelchair.

I know of a friend that yyears ago had surgery on his back had they

fused his lumbar and he did not walk again.

He needed assistance witjh activities of daily living and became

dependent on others for things he could once do himself.

Right now I can't walk I have to rely on others for a ride to the

doctor or to the grocery store.

If it is a necessary surgery than there is not much choice I have been

told I need surgery on my back & have facet arthropathy in L-5,S-1

and L-4 and Cannot even lift 10-20 lbs.

I just have ceased doing things that will make it flare up as it does

with no warning.

I have lumbar lordosis and bone spurs in my spine and left knee and

arthritis in my lateral & medial meniscus in (L) knee and a torn ACL

ligament. I need knee replacement surgery at 49 years old. I never

thought I would be in this condition at 49 yrs. of age. Just remember it

takes longer to heal and become independent again, this is something to

consider also.

>

> Hi All,

>

> My doctor is recommending a lumbar fusion of the L4 & L5 disks. My

> current situation is that though I have frequent pain and limited

> mobility, it is not constant at this time. The problem is that I never

> know what and when the back will go out and keep me from doing things.

>

> Between the research I've done and the postings on here, I am

> terrified to have this surgery. I am a relatively healthy and young

> 44 y.o. woman. I'm afraid that having the surgery may cause more

> problems and pain down the line.

>

> I'd like to know if there are any members who have had positive

> results with this surgery because all I've been reading is the

> negative stuff.

>

> Thank you in advance for your input.

> Gianena

>

[Guest guest]

What type of anti-inflammmatory meds are yopu on if it is motrin or

others after 15-20 yyears or sooner they have been known to cause what

is called a bleeding ulcer from perforating the stomach lining . Juat a

little advice from someone who had this happen to a friend.

> >

> > Hi All,

> >

> > My doctor is recommending a lumbar fusion of the L4 & L5 disks. My

> > current situation is that though I have frequent pain and limited

> > mobility, it is not constant at this time. The problem is that I

never

> > know what and when the back will go out and keep me from doing

things.

> >

> > Between the research I've done and the postings on here, I am

> > terrified to have this surgery. I am a relatively healthy and young

> > 44 y.o. woman. I'm afraid that having the surgery may cause more

> > problems and pain down the line.

> >

> > I'd like to know if there are any members who have had positive

> > results with this surgery because all I've been reading is the

> > negative stuff.

> >

> > Thank you in advance for your input.

> > Gianena

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

I am on Mobic, which i think is from the Motrin family. Motrin tears up my

stomach even after eating a meal, so don't know why the Mobic is easy on my

tummy.

I am on several meds, and know the basic side effects of all, and you always

have to way the bad against the good. I have already had liver enzymes that

fluctuate and episodes of stmach pain, but I would rather be able to walk and

have a little of a life.

I know i will end up in a wheelchair eventually, but i am not ready for it

yet.

My meds are: Mobic, Ultram, Flexeral, Elavil, and Percocet for break-thru

pain.

califflguy <cg57@...> wrote:

What type of anti-inflammmatory meds are yopu on if it is motrin or

others after 15-20 yyears or sooner they have been known to cause what

is called a bleeding ulcer from perforating the stomach lining . Juat a

little advice from someone who had this happen to a friend.

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[Guest guest]

Gianena,

I am 41 and I have had the lower lumbar fusion from L2-SG1 in May of 1998. I

have to tell you that the recovery is hard, you have to wear a back brace for

support for a extended period of time, but once you get through the initial

recovery period the pain does subside. Now, I'm not going to lie to you, I still

have chronic back pain and leg pain, and hip pain since they took bone from my

hip, but the pain is much better. You will always have some level of pain

afterwards. If a surgeon tells you that he can relieve all of your pain he/she

is not telling you the whole truth. I am on medications for life for pain, and

inflamation. Feel free to email me privately if you have any questions.

Tonja

Contemplating Lumbar Fusion

Hi All,

My doctor is recommending a lumbar fusion of the L4 & L5 disks. My

current situation is that though I have frequent pain and limited

mobility, it is not constant at this time. The problem is that I never

know what and when the back will go out and keep me from doing things.

Between the research I've done and the postings on here, I am

terrified to have this surgery. I am a relatively healthy and young

44 y.o. woman. I'm afraid that having the surgery may cause more

problems and pain down the line.

I'd like to know if there are any members who have had positive

results with this surgery because all I've been reading is the

negative stuff.

Thank you in advance for your input.

Gianena

[Guest guest]

Tonja and Gianena,

Tonja, your fusion was very extensive since it involved more than one level.

Gianena - yours is just one level, so they would most likely put in some screws

and a bracket so you would probably not need a brace at all and would go home

from the hospital within a few days and be walking. BUt the recovery would

still be painful - they usually say 3-6 months for full recovery. Although, I

have heard of people having fusion and going back to a sedentary job within 4

weeks. So it really varies a lot. ALso, depending where you live, some doctors

are now doing what they call " minimally invasive " fusion, so the recovery is

even faster. Has anyone here had that? I know that it is done in LA, kentucky,

Minneapolis, Tennessee and Boston. I have researched all of this extensively.

Tristan

tonja odegaard <todegaard0646@...> wrote:

Gianena,

I am 41 and I have had the lower lumbar fusion from L2-SG1 in May of 1998. I

have to tell you that the recovery is hard, you have to wear a back brace for

support for a extended period of time, but once you get through the initial

recovery period the pain does subside. Now, I'm not going to lie to you, I still

have chronic back pain and leg pain, and hip pain since they took bone from my

hip, but the pain is much better. You will always have some level of pain

afterwards. If a surgeon tells you that he can relieve all of your pain he/she

is not telling you the whole truth. I am on medications for life for pain, and

inflamation. Feel free to email me privately if you have any questions.

Tonja

Contemplating Lumbar Fusion

Hi All,

My doctor is recommending a lumbar fusion of the L4 & L5 disks. My

current situation is that though I have frequent pain and limited

mobility, it is not constant at this time. The problem is that I never

know what and when the back will go out and keep me from doing things.

Between the research I've done and the postings on here, I am

terrified to have this surgery. I am a relatively healthy and young

44 y.o. woman. I'm afraid that having the surgery may cause more

problems and pain down the line.

I'd like to know if there are any members who have had positive

results with this surgery because all I've been reading is the

negative stuff.

Thank you in advance for your input.

Gianena

[Guest guest]

Mine was one level and involved screws and a rod with donated bone, so no hip

pain and recovery. Seven hours of surgery, five days of hospitalization and

several weeks of semi bed-rest.

I had to wear a brace for 4-6 months that made me look like a turtle - hard

back and front with velcro straps on the side.

The first 6 months of recovery was difficult, but I was expecting the " back to

work in several weeks " mentality that I was told. Total recovery took about a

year, but after the 6 months mark, it did get easier.

Every patient, every surgery, every situation is different. But being on this

list gives you others experiences...the good, the bad, and the just plain awful.

Tristan Jouvin <tristanjouvin99@...> wrote:

Gianena - yours is just one level, so they would most likely put in

some screws and a bracket so you would probably not need a brace at all and

would go home from the hospital within a few days and be walking. BUt the

recovery would still be painful - they usually say 3-6 months for full recovery.

Although, I have heard of people having fusion and going back to a sedentary job

within 4 weeks.

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[Guest guest]

That's right I also had three Spinal_Fusions. I am now

in a power wheelchair. I live on pain patches and

lower-tabs. 10.5. I hurt in my hips where they took

bone grafts of of both hips. I also hurt in my legs

and back. I also became a diabetes after my 2nd

surgery. Has anyone else had that. I read something on

the Internet that sometimes when they mes with your

spine is causes you to become a diabetes. GOD Bless

y'all Tommy_Gun

--- tonja odegaard <todegaard0646@...> wrote:

> Gianena,

>

> I am 41 and I have had the lower lumbar fusion from

> L2-SG1 in May of 1998. I have to tell you that the

> recovery is hard, you have to wear a back brace for

> support for a extended period of time, but once you

> get through the initial recovery period the pain

> does subside. Now, I'm not going to lie to you, I

> still have chronic back pain and leg pain, and hip

> pain since they took bone from my hip, but the pain

> is much better. You will always have some level of

> pain afterwards. If a surgeon tells you that he can

> relieve all of your pain he/she is not telling you

> the whole truth. I am on medications for life for

> pain, and inflamation. Feel free to email me

> privately if you have any questions.

>

> Tonja

> Contemplating

> Lumbar Fusion

>

>

> Hi All,

>

> My doctor is recommending a lumbar fusion of the

> L4 & L5 disks. My

> current situation is that though I have frequent

> pain and limited

> mobility, it is not constant at this time. The

> problem is that I never

> know what and when the back will go out and keep

> me from doing things.

>

> Between the research I've done and the postings on

> here, I am

> terrified to have this surgery. I am a relatively

> healthy and young

> 44 y.o. woman. I'm afraid that having the surgery

> may cause more

> problems and pain down the line.

>

> I'd like to know if there are any members who have

> had positive

> results with this surgery because all I've been

> reading is the

> negative stuff.

>

> Thank you in advance for your input.

> Gianena

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

how are you doing now - and how long has it been since the surgery?

you are right on the mark - there are so many stories and varieties of

outcomes - and the only way to hear them all is to be on the list

Tristan

Vivian Harkness <vivianharkness@...> wrote:

Mine was one level and involved screws and a rod with donated bone, so

no hip pain and recovery. Seven hours of surgery, five days of hospitalization

and several weeks of semi bed-rest.

I had to wear a brace for 4-6 months that made me look like a turtle - hard back

and front with velcro straps on the side.

The first 6 months of recovery was difficult, but I was expecting the " back to

work in several weeks " mentality that I was told. Total recovery took about a

year, but after the 6 months mark, it did get easier.

Every patient, every surgery, every situation is different. But being on this

list gives you others experiences...the good, the bad, and the just plain awful.

Tristan Jouvin <tristanjouvin99@...> wrote:

Gianena - yours is just one level, so they would most likely put in some screws

and a bracket so you would probably not need a brace at all and would go home

from the hospital within a few days and be walking. BUt the recovery would still

be painful - they usually say 3-6 months for full recovery. Although, I have

heard of people having fusion and going back to a sedentary job within 4 weeks.

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[Guest guest]

Tristan

Same here. I have chronic lower back pain but it just isn't enough to do

something drastic like fusion. Some Doctors told me I'm

not a candidate while others offered it as a choice but all agree that it

might not help much or even get worse so I'm scared.

At the same time living with that forever is a scary thought too but I admit

that since joining this group my fear of surgery has

increased after hearing what folks say about terrible pain all over their

bodies and stuff.

--

On 10/12/06, Tristan Jouvin <tristanjouvin99@...> wrote:

>

> Gianena,

>

> Realize that support groups naturally tend to have people who are having

> ongoing problems. The theory is that there are some people also out there

> who have done well with fusion, and therefore have no interest in being on

> the chat groups. However, while they are living normal lives, they are not

> running marathons or climbing mt everest. Speak to the doctors in detail

> about what the studies have shown.

>

> I too am a disc pain sufferer who right now is too scared to consider

> fusion - but might later if things get worse.

>

> Tristan

>

>

> Vivian Harkness <vivianharkness@... <vivianharkness%40>>

> wrote:

> I had L4/5 fused little over 4 years ago after a career ending injury.

>

> While I did not end up totally pain free, I did get better and off all

> narcotics. Only meds needed since are muscle relaxers and

> anti-inflammatories. I also have to watch my activity levels...no more

> horseback riding or playing softball, but I do bowl with a lighter ball and

> can go on strolls. No power walking.

>

> But it does sound as if your condition is better than mine was

> pre-surgery, so maybe you will have even better results. Have you tried the

> epidural injections?

>

> Currently I have 2 other discs going bad (DDD) and we are starting the

> epidural injections again. Had them 6 months ago and they helped so crossing

> fingers for another good 6 months.

>

> -- In

spinal problems <spinal problems%40gro\

ups.com>,

> " gianenat "

> <gianenat@...> wrote:

> >

> > Hi All,

> >

> > My doctor is recommending a lumbar fusion of the L4 & L5 disks. My

> > current situation is that though I have frequent pain and limited

> > mobility, it is not constant at this time. The problem is that I never

> > know what and when the back will go out and keep me from doing things.

> >

> > Between the research I've done and the postings on here, I am

> > terrified to have this surgery. I am a relatively healthy and young

> > 44 y.o. woman. I'm afraid that having the surgery may cause more

> > problems and pain down the line.

> >

> > I'd like to know if there are any members who have had positive

> > results with this surgery because all I've been reading is the

> > negative stuff.

> >

> > Thank you in advance for your input.

> > Gianena

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

I had my surgery in May 2003 and until recently, doing pretty good. I still had

pain if I over did things or forgot to take my meds, but was living an active

life. Not what I had before i was injured, but was getting out of the house and

doing things.

Now I have 2 more bulging discs with lots of sciatic pain. Last set of

epidurals 6 mo ago did pretty good, so we are trying that again.

I also have carpel tunnel, a pacemaker, and being evaluated for bilateral knee

pain and swelling...possibly arthritis??

Not bad for 44 years old! I had an extremely active life and I guess all those

bumps, bangs, and bruises are catching up with me.

Now that I have accepted my limited lifestyle, the hardest for me now is the

lack of concentration and short term memory loss from the meds.

But you learn to adjust and go on.

Tristan Jouvin <tristanjouvin99@...> wrote:

how are you doing now - and how long has it been since the surgery?

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[Guest guest]

alex, i am lumbar fusion L3-L4 and laminectomy after exhausting all other

possibilities inclduing RF ablation, shots in my spine, some medication but not

very much. nothing was working and when there was no choice because i could

not walk anymore, the pain was excrutiating in my right leg between my knee

and my butt, then i had the fusion. i don't regret the fusion. it was okay.

it is just that i have this pain all over my body now and so now i am

dealing with opiates which does not thrill me to death. the side effects of

the

opiates for me are more mind stuff. mood swings etc. most importantly, the

doctors do not think that this chronic all over body pain has anything to do

with the surgery. the surgery was successful. however....i don't agree with

the doctors because i did not have this pain prior to the surgery and i think

my body is angry about the invasion of the hardware. this is just what i

think. but i still go to work, try to exercise, get together with friends

etcs. the combination of the narcotics makes me want to isolate all the time.

marsha

[Guest guest]

trauma induced fibromyalgia?? what on earth is that. darlene, can you

please describe - in detail - everything you feel and the way you feel as a

result of this? please. it would be so helpful to go back to my pain doc and

say, could it be this? i have an appointment with a nerve specialist in a

couple of weeks. the last nerve specialist i went to spent one minute with me

and

when he heard that one of the meds i am on is zoloft, he immediately said

depression was causing my pain and i needed to get off all meds. this after

one minute. i told him i was not depressed. and then i got really pissed at

him. it's that asshole thing again. so please describe trauma induced

fibromyalgia to me. thank you. marsha

In a message dated 10/14/2006 12:30:46 PM Eastern Standard Time,

darzplace@... writes:

Marsha, I know I'm in here for my husband's sake, but what you're

describing sounds like trauma induced fibromyalgia to me. And boy oh

boy am I the expert on that nasty thing. I've had it forever, and

wouldn't wish it on

[Guest guest]

i have no idea what firbromyalgia is.

[Guest guest]

I agree . I really did'nt hear all about how you could get worse with

fusion until I joined this group. The surgeons don't tell you much about the

possibility of getting worse (although my non-surgeon doctors have told me

this). ONly 1 surgeon told me NOT to do fusion unless it becomes the only

choice.

Have you maximized all the other options? Physical therapy, alternative

medicine techniques, meds? I at one point thought that I was at a point where

fusion was the only option, but with low-dose methadone, lyrica and new physical

therapy exercises, I have been doing 'ok'.

Tristan

stucky <stucky101@...> wrote:

Tristan

Same here. I have chronic lower back pain but it just isn't enough to do

something drastic like fusion. Some Doctors told me I'm

not a candidate while others offered it as a choice but all agree that it

might not help much or even get worse so I'm scared.

At the same time living with that forever is a scary thought too but I admit

that since joining this group my fear of surgery has

increased after hearing what folks say about terrible pain all over their

bodies and stuff.

--

On 10/12/06, Tristan Jouvin <tristanjouvin99@...> wrote:

>

> Gianena,

>

> Realize that support groups naturally tend to have people who are having

> ongoing problems. The theory is that there are some people also out there

> who have done well with fusion, and therefore have no interest in being on

> the chat groups. However, while they are living normal lives, they are not

> running marathons or climbing mt everest. Speak to the doctors in detail

> about what the studies have shown.

>

> I too am a disc pain sufferer who right now is too scared to consider

> fusion - but might later if things get worse.

>

> Tristan

>

>

> Vivian Harkness <vivianharkness@... <vivianharkness%40>>

> wrote:

> I had L4/5 fused little over 4 years ago after a career ending injury.

>

> While I did not end up totally pain free, I did get better and off all

> narcotics. Only meds needed since are muscle relaxers and

> anti-inflammatories. I also have to watch my activity levels...no more

> horseback riding or playing softball, but I do bowl with a lighter ball and

> can go on strolls. No power walking.

>

> But it does sound as if your condition is better than mine was

> pre-surgery, so maybe you will have even better results. Have you tried the

> epidural injections?

>

> Currently I have 2 other discs going bad (DDD) and we are starting the

> epidural injections again. Had them 6 months ago and they helped so crossing

> fingers for another good 6 months.

>

> -- In

spinal problems <spinal problems%40gro\

ups.com>,

> " gianenat "

> <gianenat@...> wrote:

> >

> > Hi All,

> >

> > My doctor is recommending a lumbar fusion of the L4 & L5 disks. My

> > current situation is that though I have frequent pain and limited

> > mobility, it is not constant at this time. The problem is that I never

> > know what and when the back will go out and keep me from doing things.

> >

> > Between the research I've done and the postings on here, I am

> > terrified to have this surgery. I am a relatively healthy and young

> > 44 y.o. woman. I'm afraid that having the surgery may cause more

> > problems and pain down the line.

> >

> > I'd like to know if there are any members who have had positive

> > results with this surgery because all I've been reading is the

> > negative stuff.

> >

> > Thank you in advance for your input.

> > Gianena

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

Marsha, I know I'm in here for my husband's sake, but what you're

describing sounds like trauma induced fibromyalgia to me. And boy oh

boy am I the expert on that nasty thing. I've had it forever, and

wouldn't wish it on anyone. It's not curable, however it can be

controlled. And if you do have it, getting it under control will

enable you to appreciate the GOOD results you got from your surgery. I

wish you the best in this. Holler at me if I can help. Darlene

> it is just that i have this pain all over my body now and so now i

am

> dealing with opiates which does not thrill me to death. the side

effects of the

> opiates for me are more mind stuff. mood swings etc. most

importantly, the

> doctors do not think that this chronic all over body pain has

anything to do

> with the surgery. the surgery was successful. however....i don't

agree with

> the doctors because i did not have this pain prior to the surgery

and i think

> my body is angry about the invasion of the hardware.

[Guest guest]

if someone said trauma induced fibromyalgia I can very well understand what she

means. Question what are you having a problem understanding on that one???

BLEECKERST10012@... wrote:

trauma induced fibromyalgia?? what on earth is that. darlene, can you

please describe - in detail - everything you feel and the way you feel as a

result of this? please. it would be so helpful to go back to my pain doc and

say, could it be this? i have an appointment with a nerve specialist in a

couple of weeks. the last nerve specialist i went to spent one minute with me

and

when he heard that one of the meds i am on is zoloft, he immediately said

depression was causing my pain and i needed to get off all meds. this after

one minute. i told him i was not depressed. and then i got really pissed at

him. it's that asshole thing again. so please describe trauma induced

fibromyalgia to me. thank you. marsha

In a message dated 10/14/2006 12:30:46 PM Eastern Standard Time,

darzplace@... writes:

Marsha, I know I'm in here for my husband's sake, but what you're

describing sounds like trauma induced fibromyalgia to me. And boy oh

boy am I the expert on that nasty thing. I've had it forever, and

wouldn't wish it on

[Guest guest]

Which meds are you on now? Are you needing regular opioids? I am wondering what

the typical life is like after fusion.

I too had a very active lifestyle with days of 10 hours of tennis on

hardcourts, jumping up and down playing volleyball, and falling on ice while

snowboarding. None of that did my discs any good, and now I can't do any of

that stuff anymore.

Vivian Harkness <vivianharkness@...> wrote:

I had my surgery in May 2003 and until recently, doing pretty good. I

still had pain if I over did things or forgot to take my meds, but was living an

active life. Not what I had before i was injured, but was getting out of the

house and doing things.

Now I have 2 more bulging discs with lots of sciatic pain. Last set of epidurals

6 mo ago did pretty good, so we are trying that again.

I also have carpel tunnel, a pacemaker, and being evaluated for bilateral knee

pain and swelling...possibly arthritis??

Not bad for 44 years old! I had an extremely active life and I guess all those

bumps, bangs, and bruises are catching up with me.

Now that I have accepted my limited lifestyle, the hardest for me now is the

lack of concentration and short term memory loss from the meds.

But you learn to adjust and go on.

Tristan Jouvin <tristanjouvin99@...> wrote:

how are you doing now - and how long has it been since the surgery?

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[Guest guest]

Oh my, I hope I'm not stepping on toes here, cause this is a back

support group and there are many fibro support groups out there, but

here goes. Fibromyalgia is a disorder that causes head to toe pain

in the soft tissues of muscles, tendons, and ligaments. The most

common way it's described is you feel like a mack truck has run over

you, or you have the worst case of flu aches you ever saw that just

never goes away. The pain is the most common symptom, with specific

points on your body that are so tender to the touch you would jump

over the chandolier if someone pressed on them. Sometimes you hurt

so much it's painful to wear close fitting clothes! Besides pain

there is extreme fatigue, lack of sleep (or if you get to sleep you

don't get into the deep restful sleep), constant irritable bowel

problems, and something we jokingly call " fibrofog. " There is a

saying " You might be a fibromite if you look for your tennis shoes

in the refrigerator.....and find them. " There are many other things

attributed to fibro but the list is way too long for here. There are

several different theories as to how you get it with one being that

it comes on as a result of some sort of trauma. Many people get it

after a car wreck, I got mine after being overdosed on vaccines when

I was in the army. (this was chemical trauma)There are many good

books about it but the ones I would recommend for you to read are

written by Dr. St. Armand, Dr. Mark Pelligrino, and Devon

Starlanyl. Those three are the tops in the field, and 2 of them are

fibro victims themselves so they truly know what we suffer. I myself

am on something called the guai protocol by Dr. Armand and believe

in it's power to control, not cure but at least control, the fibro.

There are many, many, MANY charlatons out there that try to take

advantage of the fact that someone with fibro will do anything to

get relief and push all kinds of Dr Feelgood remedies at us. Take it

from me, don't believe ANY of them. Also, don't listen to the docs

that claim it's all in your head. That's the old IAIYH diagnoses

many of us got for too long. Dr Armand has what I believe is the

answer, or at least the only one for now. It would take too long for

me to try to explain it all here, but his book explains fibro, the

guai protocol, and how it works in an easy to understand way. If any

of the symptoms I mentioned above seem familiar, check it out. I bet

a lot of back injury victims also become fibro victims and don't

know what's going on. It's not an uncommon way for it to start.

Here is a good link for general info on fibro. It has 11 different

sections to the article so don't stop at the front page ok?

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/fibromyalgia/DS00079

Also here is a link to Dr St Armand's guai protocol site. If you are

interested in it:

http://fibromyalgiatreatment.com/

I hope I've given you and anyone else interested enough info to get

you started checking into this. I know from experience that fibro

can make other things like back pain seem worse. Getting fibro under

control can restore energy that you need to deal with the other. I

truly hope you do NOT have this, but if you do, there is help out

there. My shoulders are here for you if you need them. Take Care,

Darlene

>

>

> trauma induced fibromyalgia?? what on earth is that. darlene,

can you

> please describe - in detail - everything you feel and the way you

feel as a

> result of this? please. it would be so helpful to go back to my

pain doc and

> say, could it be this? i have an appointment with a nerve

specialist in a

> couple of weeks. the last nerve specialist i went to spent one

minute with me and

> when he heard that one of the meds i am on is zoloft, he

immediately said

> depression was causing my pain and i needed to get off all meds.

this after

> one minute. i told him i was not depressed. and then i got

really pissed at

> him. it's that asshole thing again. so please describe trauma

induced

> fibromyalgia to me. thank you. marsha

>

> In a message dated 10/14/2006 12:30:46 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> darzplace@... writes:

>

>

>

>

> Marsha, I know I'm in here for my husband's sake, but what you're

> describing sounds like trauma induced fibromyalgia to me. And boy

oh

> boy am I the expert on that nasty thing. I've had it forever, and

> wouldn't wish it on

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I exhausted PT, meds injections and it just got worse....My first surgery was

emergency since I waited doing all of the methods mentioned my disc was slipping

further severing my bladder nerve, so i was medivaced to emergency surgery. The

fusion was my surgeons suggestion since I had DDD and Spondy so bad...

Tonja

Re: Re: Contemplating Lumbar Fusion

I agree . I really did'nt hear all about how you could get worse with

fusion until I joined this group. The surgeons don't tell you much about the

possibility of getting worse (although my non-surgeon doctors have told me

this). ONly 1 surgeon told me NOT to do fusion unless it becomes the only

choice.

Have you maximized all the other options? Physical therapy, alternative

medicine techniques, meds? I at one point thought that I was at a point where

fusion was the only option, but with low-dose methadone, lyrica and new physical

therapy exercises, I have been doing 'ok'.

Tristan

stucky <stucky101@...> wrote:

Tristan

Same here. I have chronic lower back pain but it just isn't enough to do

something drastic like fusion. Some Doctors told me I'm

not a candidate while others offered it as a choice but all agree that it

might not help much or even get worse so I'm scared.

At the same time living with that forever is a scary thought too but I admit

that since joining this group my fear of surgery has

increased after hearing what folks say about terrible pain all over their

bodies and stuff.

--

On 10/12/06, Tristan Jouvin <tristanjouvin99@...> wrote:

>

> Gianena,

>

> Realize that support groups naturally tend to have people who are having

> ongoing problems. The theory is that there are some people also out there

> who have done well with fusion, and therefore have no interest in being on

> the chat groups. However, while they are living normal lives, they are not

> running marathons or climbing mt everest. Speak to the doctors in detail

> about what the studies have shown.

>

> I too am a disc pain sufferer who right now is too scared to consider

> fusion - but might later if things get worse.

>

> Tristan

>

>

> Vivian Harkness <vivianharkness@... <vivianharkness%40>>

> wrote:

> I had L4/5 fused little over 4 years ago after a career ending injury.

>

> While I did not end up totally pain free, I did get better and off all

> narcotics. Only meds needed since are muscle relaxers and

> anti-inflammatories. I also have to watch my activity levels...no more

> horseback riding or playing softball, but I do bowl with a lighter ball and

> can go on strolls. No power walking.

>

> But it does sound as if your condition is better than mine was

> pre-surgery, so maybe you will have even better results. Have you tried the

> epidural injections?

>

> Currently I have 2 other discs going bad (DDD) and we are starting the

> epidural injections again. Had them 6 months ago and they helped so crossing

> fingers for another good 6 months.

>

> -- In

spinal problems <spinal problems%40gro\

ups.com>,

> " gianenat "

> <gianenat@...> wrote:

> >

> > Hi All,

> >

> > My doctor is recommending a lumbar fusion of the L4 & L5 disks. My

> > current situation is that though I have frequent pain and limited

> > mobility, it is not constant at this time. The problem is that I never

> > know what and when the back will go out and keep me from doing things.

> >

> > Between the research I've done and the postings on here, I am

> > terrified to have this surgery. I am a relatively healthy and young

> > 44 y.o. woman. I'm afraid that having the surgery may cause more

> > problems and pain down the line.

> >

> > I'd like to know if there are any members who have had positive

> > results with this surgery because all I've been reading is the

> > negative stuff.

> >

> > Thank you in advance for your input.

> > Gianena

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Darlene...very good explaination!

And something I plan on asking my pain mgmt doc when I go in on the 24th.

Darlene Ewing <darzplace@...> wrote:

Oh my, I hope I'm not stepping on toes here, cause this is a back

support group and there are many fibro support groups out there, but

here goes. Fibromyalgia is a disorder that causes head to toe pain

in the soft tissues of muscles, tendons, and ligaments. The most

common way it's described is you feel like a mack truck has run over

you, or you have the worst case of flu aches you ever saw that just

never goes away. The pain is the most common symptom, with specific

points on your body that are so tender to the touch you would jump

over the chandolier if someone pressed on them. Sometimes you hurt

so much it's painful to wear close fitting clothes! Besides pain

there is extreme fatigue, lack of sleep (or if you get to sleep you

don't get into the deep restful sleep), constant irritable bowel

problems, and something we jokingly call " fibrofog. " There is a

saying " You might be a fibromite if you look for your tennis shoes

in the refrigerator.....and find them. " There are many other things

attributed to fibro but the list is way too long for here. There are

several different theories as to how you get it with one being that

it comes on as a result of some sort of trauma. Many people get it

after a car wreck, I got mine after being overdosed on vaccines when

I was in the army. (this was chemical trauma)There are many good

books about it but the ones I would recommend for you to read are

written by Dr. St. Armand, Dr. Mark Pelligrino, and Devon

Starlanyl. Those three are the tops in the field, and 2 of them are

fibro victims themselves so they truly know what we suffer. I myself

am on something called the guai protocol by Dr. Armand and believe

in it's power to control, not cure but at least control, the fibro.

There are many, many, MANY charlatons out there that try to take

advantage of the fact that someone with fibro will do anything to

get relief and push all kinds of Dr Feelgood remedies at us. Take it

from me, don't believe ANY of them. Also, don't listen to the docs

that claim it's all in your head. That's the old IAIYH diagnoses

many of us got for too long. Dr Armand has what I believe is the

answer, or at least the only one for now. It would take too long for

me to try to explain it all here, but his book explains fibro, the

guai protocol, and how it works in an easy to understand way. If any

of the symptoms I mentioned above seem familiar, check it out. I bet

a lot of back injury victims also become fibro victims and don't

know what's going on. It's not an uncommon way for it to start.

Here is a good link for general info on fibro. It has 11 different

sections to the article so don't stop at the front page ok?

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/fibromyalgia/DS00079

Also here is a link to Dr St Armand's guai protocol site. If you are

interested in it:

http://fibromyalgiatreatment.com/

I hope I've given you and anyone else interested enough info to get

you started checking into this. I know from experience that fibro

can make other things like back pain seem worse. Getting fibro under

control can restore energy that you need to deal with the other. I

truly hope you do NOT have this, but if you do, there is help out

there. My shoulders are here for you if you need them. Take Care,

Darlene

>

>

> trauma induced fibromyalgia?? what on earth is that. darlene,

can you

> please describe - in detail - everything you feel and the way you

feel as a

> result of this? please. it would be so helpful to go back to my

pain doc and

> say, could it be this? i have an appointment with a nerve

specialist in a

> couple of weeks. the last nerve specialist i went to spent one

minute with me and

> when he heard that one of the meds i am on is zoloft, he

immediately said

> depression was causing my pain and i needed to get off all meds.

this after

> one minute. i told him i was not depressed. and then i got

really pissed at

> him. it's that asshole thing again. so please describe trauma

induced

> fibromyalgia to me. thank you. marsha

>

> In a message dated 10/14/2006 12:30:46 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> darzplace@... writes:

>

>

>

>

> Marsha, I know I'm in here for my husband's sake, but what you're

> describing sounds like trauma induced fibromyalgia to me. And boy

oh

> boy am I the expert on that nasty thing. I've had it forever, and

> wouldn't wish it on

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

darlene, you are a god send. when you described the symptoms for fibro, you

described me absolutely all the way. everything. well, not quite, i am

usually constipated bec. of all the pain meds. question: by doing this guai

protocal, are you able to control the constant mac truck pain? or do you

still have to take narcotics to control it. (yes, the pain is that bad). and

yes....this is relevant to the spine support group. to me it is just another

issue related to my spine.

thanks, marsha

[Guest guest]

Glad I could help, but I still hope you don't have it. The standard

for diagnosing it is having 11 of 18 tender points that scream in

pain when pressed by the doc's thumb. Not everyone has 11 points

flaring up at the time of the doc visit tho, so take it all with a

dose of common sense, ok? Remember, pain meds for your back are

going to make the tender points hurt less, thus maybe giving a false

result. It's my opinion, personal and professional, that docs need

to look at ALL the symptoms, not just the tender point test when

making a diagnoses. If you want to do a preview, there is a diagram

of the spots on this web page and you can get someone to try

pressing the points for you. Just tell them to be gentle!

http://www.webmd.com/hw/health_guide_atoz/aa103823.asp

Good luck, Darlene

> >

> >

> > trauma induced fibromyalgia?? what on earth is that. darlene,

> can you

> > please describe - in detail - everything you feel and the way

you

> feel as a

> > result of this? please. it would be so helpful to go back to my

> pain doc and

> > say, could it be this? i have an appointment with a nerve

> specialist in a

> > couple of weeks. the last nerve specialist i went to spent one

> minute with me and

> > when he heard that one of the meds i am on is zoloft, he

> immediately said

> > depression was causing my pain and i needed to get off all meds.

> this after

> > one minute. i told him i was not depressed. and then i got

> really pissed at

> > him. it's that asshole thing again. so please describe trauma

> induced

> > fibromyalgia to me. thank you. marsha

> >

> > In a message dated 10/14/2006 12:30:46 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> > darzplace@ writes:

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Marsha, I know I'm in here for my husband's sake, but what

you're

> > describing sounds like trauma induced fibromyalgia to me. And

boy

> oh

> > boy am I the expert on that nasty thing. I've had it forever,

and

> > wouldn't wish it on

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Oh sweetie I do so hope you don't have this. We call it the DD (for

Damn Disorder) and when I first saw the DDD in ya'll's posts I had

to look twice to get out of fibro mode ya know? The constipation is

part of the IBS portion, it can go either way for a fibro person,

but the narcotics are definitely contributing to it. When I got my

narcs (finally after much begging) and they slowed down the diarreah

from my IBS I was grateful LOL! Up till then I had lived on

Immodium. In fact I've only been constipated one time, just as our

trip to SC started and it scared the jeewhilickers outta me! In a

not so small nutshell, the way the guai protocol works is this:

The theory is the FM won't let the kidneys flush phosphates out of

your system so the body deposits them in muscle cells because they

gotta go somewhere. I don't understand why trauma can trigger this

process but like I said research is still young. These phosphates

cause pain, prevent energy production, and a whole slew of other

troubles just from being where they aren't s'posed to be. Over the

years, they build up and build up until you have lumpy knots of them

in your muscles and your whole body is going thru hell trying to do

something about it. I think that's what all the different symptoms

are about, the body is trying anything it can to help itself and

that just makes it worse. The guai acts in your body sort of like

the old wagon trail guides acted for the settlers. It coaxes the

built up phosphates out of your muscle cells, then escorts them to

the kidneys and helps them get on the boat to cross the river out of

there. But it can only help so many phosphates at a time, the boat

can only hold so many passengers you know? So it's estimated that it

takes about two months to reverse each year of FM phosphate build up

you have. So if you can remember back over the time your symptoms

built up, as you reverse every two months you should feel more like

you did the year those two months represent. For instance at 6

months reversal you should feel like you did 3 years ago, and so on.

So yes it does eventually help control the mack truck pain, but not

immediately. ALSO! I gotta warn you, while trying to find your

personal dosage requirement, (it's different for each of us) the key

that tells you it's been found is an increase in your pain. That

tells you the phosphates are being agitated by the guai. But this

shouldn't be a drastic increase and once your dose is found, the

pain and other symptoms start reducing. For some it happens quickly,

within days, for others the whole two months drag on before they

feel anything. So narcotics can be a blessing during this time but

you can get to the point where you only need them if you really

overdo it and cause a short flare up of your old pain. These flares

gradually come fewer and gentler, too, so that's something to look

forward to. It's a very individual and personal program. And one

other thing. There is a group of ingredients in many everyday things

we use that can block the guai from working. Remember the boats in

your kidneys I mentioned that the guai puts the phosphates on to

flush them out? Well sometimes these boats are already full of

passengers and the phosphates have to go back to hanging out in the

cells. No matter how good the guai guides are, if the boats are

full, they can't put the phosphates on them. These passengers, or

blockers, are salicylates, and they are derived from plants so

anything that says it has aloe in it, or mint, or natural herbal

ingredients can keep the guai from working for you. That's the

hardest part of following the protocol in the beginning, even more

so than the small pain increase. There are lists available for us

that give " sal-free " and " sal-full " items, but guai users gradually

become experts at reading ingredient labels cause so many things

have salicylates in them. The best advice I can give you is get Dr

St Armand's book and read it. Most libraries have a copy of it, but

it's better to go to a bookstore and get one of your own. Or check

out Alibris, the online bookstore for a used copy. They have them

really cheap. There is a guai support group here on . If you

are interested and I'm allowed to put a link to it I will. It helped

me when I was having probs ajdusting my dosage of guai in the

beginning and the people in there are warm, wonderful fountains of

help when the going gets rough. Just like in here has been for Rob

and me during our fusion confusion! And in all fairness I guess I

should put one of those disclaimer things here: Guai is considered

an alternative therapy, there are no FDA approved drugs for FM. But

those of us who have come to it know it works. Some docs try to put

it in the class of " snake doctor cures " but it has more documented

cases of relief than any of the antidepressents and antiseizure meds

they are trying to use. I feel it's only a matter of time before

research puts guai as the treatment of choice and feel comfortable,

even good, about recommending it to friends I know who have fibro.

So with this group being at high risk for FM, what with the trauma

from all the back problems, I am willing to share what I know. And

what you guys are sharing with me means just as much to me, I want

you to know that. Darlene

>

> darlene, you are a god send. when you described the symptoms for

fibro, you

> described me absolutely all the way. everything. well, not

quite, i am

> usually constipated bec. of all the pain meds. question: by

doing this guai

> protocal, are you able to control the constant mac truck pain?

or do you

> still have to take narcotics to control it. (yes, the pain is

that bad). and

> yes....this is relevant to the spine support group. to me it is

just another

> issue related to my spine.

> thanks, marsha

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

darlene, you are a god send. thank you so much for all your help.

can you please tell me:

where do you get your guai from?

what exactly do you eat?

marsha