Fwd: Detoxing Can Be Bad For Your Health

[Guest guest]

>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,8123-1016203,00.html

>

>February 26, 2004

>

>Reportage

>

>Detoxing can be bad for your health

>By Peta Bee

>The detox season is in full swing with Tesco's sales

>of brown rice up by 67 per cent in January. But some

>experts think that detox diets don't work and can even

>be dangerous

>

>

>

>FATS, CALORIES, carbohydrates are yesterday’s bad guys

>— the new enemies are toxins, with toxic “excess”

>blamed for a host of ills from weight gain and poor

>digestion to acne and excessive tiredness. Such is our

>obsession for the internal clean-out that the early

>months of the new year are now well established as the

>detox months.

>Tesco has reported that the “Detox Season” has become

>“an essential fixture on the retail calendar”, and

>that “anything that has a well-known connection with

>detoxing has flown off the shelves”; its sales of

>brown rice in January were up by 67 per cent on the

>previous month, and those of the Nutri Centre @Tesco’s

>Detox Plan Drink up by more than 200 per cent. And

>detox plans regularly top the diet bestsellers lists

>at Waterstone’s — with around 200 detox titles in the

>UK.

>

>

>

>It’s hard to believe that just five years ago detoxing

>was considered the preserve of celebrities and

>alternative types. Now we’re all at it.

>

>The popular perception is that a detox will probably

>do some good, and it can’t do us any harm. Or can it?

>Some experts believe that detoxing is at best a waste

>of time, effort and money, and at worst it can be

>dangerous.

>

>Last year , chief dietitian at St

>’s Hospital, London, saw a 23-year-old man who

>had been rushed to accident and emergency after

>slipping into a coma. Doctors reported that his serum

>sodium levels had plummeted to a dangerous level,

>causing his brain to swell. Constricted by the skull,

>the brain has little leeway for expansion and once it

>has enlarged by 6 per cent it hits bone and starts to

>compress against the hard surface. This can be

>serious; the patient remained in a coma for four days.

>It was not alcohol or drugs, nor a mystery illness or

>reaction to medication that was to blame, but almost

>certainly a detox diet.

>

>The patient had attended a family party where several

>close relations had commented on his pasty appearance

>and expanding waistline. As a result, he started a

>three-week detox diet, which consisted almost

>exclusively of fruit, vegetables, fruit juice and

>water.

>

>While his was an extreme case, it is by no means

>isolated, says . She sees dozens of people with

>detox side effects ranging from bowel problems to

>chronic dehydration and potassium depletion as a

>result of their attempts to detox. More seriously,

>dizziness, respiratory problems, sometimes even

>potentially fatal water toxicity, are symptoms of

>hyponatraemia, when sodium levels and other body

>salts, or electrolytes, in the blood are too dilute,

>often as a result of consuming more water and less

>salty foods sometimes in conjunction with increased

>activity.

>

>“There is this fixation with the notion that we can

>detoxify the body through what we eat and drink, but

>the whole idea has no scientific basis and anything

>that promises to help you to detox is a rip-off,”

> says. “Sticking to a detox regimen for a day

>or two won’t be harmful for most people, although

>neither will it have any effect on their long-term

>health. But when detox plans promote longer periods of

>severe dietary restriction, which many do, they can

>cause problems.”

>

>The detox theory is that too much of the wrong sorts

>of food, a polluted environment, and unhealthy habits

>such as drinking and smoking contribute to a build-up

>of poisonous substances in the body, which eventually

>buckles under the strain. The signs of this strain

>include headaches, body aches, chronic fatigue,

>allergies, chronic digestive problems, muscle aches,

>autism, schizophrenia, even drug reactions and Gulf

>War syndrome fatigue. The substances commonly

>considered poisonous include caffeine, alcohol, drugs,

>cigarette smoke, exhaust fumes, high protein diets,

>organophosphate fertilisers, paint fumes, saturated

>fat, steroid hormones, and the list goes on.

>

>According to the detox theory, by sticking only to

>foods that are considered pure and unadulterated, and

>by avoiding anything that might strain the internal

>organs, you will purge yourself of poisons and undo

>the damage wreaked on your health.

>

>The avoidance of food, or fasting, is not new, and has

>been practised for religious reasons for centuries

>with the idea that, at certain times, it is beneficial

>to concentrate more on keeping faith and less on the

>concerns of everyday life such as eating and drinking.

>But detoxing usually differs from religious fasting in

>duration, or in the stipulations about what cannot be

>consumed. Prolonged spiritual fasts, such as the

>month-long Ramadan fast practised by Muslims, do allow

>food to be consumed at certain times; others, such as

>the Jewish Yom Kippur, restrict the practice to 24

>hours. Most detox programmes advocate 48 hours to

>seven days of a strict dietary regimen. Some suggest

>sticking it out for longer; the latest hit with the

>Hollywood set is a 21-day programme devised by the

>nutritional therapists Woods and De

>.

>

>If detox plans vary in length, their content is pretty

>similar. Typically, they prescribe drinking two litres

>or more of water a day along with dandelion coffee and

>herb teas. Most also recommend half a pint of fruit or

>vegetable juice — carrot or apple are favourites

>because of their “digestive-boosting” properties — and

>some allow unlimited consumption of raw fruit and

>vegetables considered beneficial for detoxification

>purposes, such as fresh apricots, citrus fruits and

>mango or peppers, watercress and bean sprouts. Meat,

>fish, dairy, processed foods are definite detox

>no-nos.

>

>So, does detoxing fulfil its promise? “No, it’s

>rubbish,” says Professor Tom , of the

>department of nutrition at Kings College London.

>

>“There are so many contradictions in the detox theory

>that it is laughable. For starters, the idea that some

>foods are poisonous and others are not is misleading

>and factually incorrect.”

>

>Even organic vegetables “are loaded with naturally

>occurring toxins”, he says, but the body is adept at

>breaking them down and eliminating them. Broccoli and

>cabbage, onions and other vegetables are high in such

>toxins, while meat and fish are relatively low. Brown

>rice contains phytic acid that inhibits the absorption

>of some vitamins and minerals, and legumes are

>poisonous unless properly cooked. The list goes on.

>

>“The biggest irony,” says, “is that fasting in

>the way that many detox diets recommend actually slows

>down the rate at which our bodies can eliminate

>poisons. And we need some protein such as meat or fish

>for the body’s natural detox organ, the liver, to work

>at its best.”

>

>In recent trials of detox plans at the University of

>Southern California (USC), none was found to live up

>to the claims that it would purge environmental toxins

>over and above what the body itself was capable of

>doing anyway. Dr Clements, a chemist at the USC

>school of pharmacy, said tests have proved that no

>extra toxins were expelled from the body on detox

>diets and that suggesting the digestive system needs a

>break is ludicrous.

>

>“We have this wonderful thing called a liver and

>gastrointestinal tract which is quite long,” he says.

>“Between them, these two manage everything shovelled

>into our bodies quite well. We are not made to give

>the system a rest.”

>

>His colleague, Professor Pressman, a lecturer in

>clinical medicine at USC, adds that the sudden

>shedding of weight that often occurs during detoxing

>can be dangerous in the long term. Not only would it

>place people who repeat the detox plan at risk of

>nutrient deficiencies but, he suggests, it could

>predispose them to eating disorders such as anorexia

>nervosa. Nor would detoxing help to cure any medical

>ailment. “There is no such thing as detoxification

>through diet,” Pressman says. “It’s certainly not

>medicine, and it’s potentially dangerous if someone

>embarking on such a diet delays seeking mainstream

>medical care for a problem.”

>

>And what of the commonly reported side-effects of even

>a short detoxification programme? Van Straten,

>author of Super Health Detox, concedes that detoxing

>initially leads to “what naturopaths call a healing

>crisis — a coated tongue, bad breath, increased

>temperature, sweating, tremors and general aches and

>pains” due to the “sudden release of toxins from the

>body”.

>

>Surely these are a positive sign that detoxing is

>doing its job? thinks not. “If someone gets a

>headache it is almost certainly because they are

>dehydrated or their blood sugar is low,” she says.

>

>Many people claim they experience a general sense of

>euphoria and boosted energy as a result of purifying

>their system. puts this down to ketosis, “the

>emergency state the body reaches when it is starved of

>calories and starts to grab from fat and protein

>stores — it can happen on any strict diet, including a

>detox. It causes lightheadedness that can be mistaken

>for an increase in energy. But it’s not a natural

>state and should be discouraged.”

>

>The idea that detoxing can be unhealthy meets a mixed

>response from the detox proponents. Deborah Colson, a

>nutritionist at the Institute of Optimum Nutrition’s

>(IoN) Brain Bio centre in London, says that “most

>people could benefit from detoxing for a month twice a

>year”, but suggests that “if your diet is very toxic

>and you need an extreme detox of just fruit juice and

>water, ideally that should be done under supervision”.

>

>

>Van Straten says that certain groups (diabetics,

>pregnant and breast-feeding women and anyone with

>thyroid problems or cancer) should never attempt to

>detox. However, “for many people, a carefully planned

>cleansing of the system will give the body a rest, a

>chance to break down everything that is thrown at it”,

>and, over a few days, will be safe.

>

>Ian Marber, of the Food Doctor nutritional clinic, is

>uneasy with the way the detox market is heading:

>“There are extreme approaches out there that are

>risky, and there is also this attitude that if you

>detox, you are free to retox, which is just as

>unhealthy.”

>

>While they are adamant that detoxing doesn’t work,

>most leading nutritional experts concede that 24-48

>hours of consuming more fruit and vegetables and less

>convenience food than normal won’t be harmful. Very

>often, says , a short detox plan gives people

>the psychological spur they need to change their

>eating habits for the better.

>

>Dr Alastair Forbes , a consultant gastroenterologist

>at St Mark’s Hospital in Harrow, adds that the

>antioxidants and fibre in fruit and vegetables make

>them essential for good gut and bowel health and that

>if a one or two- day detox kick-starts a habit of

>eating more of them, then that is a good thing. Beyond

>that, though, don’t expect miracles.

>

>“People are always looking for a quick fix for their

>wrongdoings,” says. “Detoxing is swayed by

>guilt. We want to think we can get away with

>overindulgence. It’s all a con.”

>

>Has detox worked for you?

>E-mail debate@...

>

>THE TOP TEN DETOX BOOKS

>

>Carol Vorderman’s Detox for Life: The 28- Day Detox

>Diet by Carol Vorderman and Ko Chohan, Virgin

>

>Carol Vorderman’s Summer Detox: The 14-Day Mini Detox

>by Carol Vorderman and Anita Bean, Virgin

>

>Stay Healthy. Be Lazy: An Easy Detox by Innocent,

>Boxtree

>

>Detox Handbook by Harper, Dorling Kindersley

>

>Super Detox by Van Straten, Quadrille

>

>Detox Yourself by Jane Scrivner, Piatkus

>

>The Little Book of Detox by Jane Scrivner, Piatkus

>

>Total Detox: 6 Ways to Revitalise Your Life by Jane

>Scrivner, Piatkus

>

>Detox: 28-Day Plan S, Parragon

>

>Detox Solutions by Helen , Hamlyn

>

>Data supplied by Nielsen BookScan

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi guys, IMHO, It's probably not a good idea for those with Hep C to do dramatic fasting or detox programs; it may be too harsh for an already compromised system... I trust my body. I don't do dramatic things to try to detox, but I believe my body tries to get rid of what it needs to, in order to remain healthy and able to function optimally, and I try not to get in the way of this natural process... Just as it's hard to work efficiently in a cluttered work environment, the body has a harder time functioning optimally when it's mucked up with toxic waste. It's a natural thing for the body to try to clean itself out. We just shouldn't do things that get in the way of this natural process, such as eating foods which bind up the intestines, for example. Most people know it's healthy to have one or more bowel movements a day, in order to keep the body free of waste. Certain foods can either help or hinder the process, and these are best used in moderation. Another example is "holding" on to certain stressful emotions which can also cause the slowing down of eliminative functions. Lack of exercise also hinders the body's natural detox process..... And of course it's always best to be aware of what is toxic to the body, and steer clear of these substances.......However, anything done to help along the detox process should be done in moderation. It's helpful to engage in such exercise as a moderate hatha yoga practice (such as Integral Yoga Hatha), including the postures, breathing practices, deep relaxation, and meditation, which, as well as being a good type of exercise for heppers (not too strenuous), it can help the body naturally detoxify, by toning the organs, glands, and muscles responsible for the body's natural detoxification functions. At least in the case of Integral Yoga Hatha, the postures and practices aren't overly strenuous, and can be invaluable to people with Hep C, when used as a moderate exercise program with a focus on cleansing/toning the body, better oxygenation of the system, and relieving stress/inducing relaxation. I also think that at the beginning each season it can be healthful (and natural) to cleanse the system (body, mind, and spirit) gently and moderately; possibly, if relatively healthy, by doing a short juice fast(1-2 days) preceded and followed by a traditional "cleansing diet" lasting 2-3 days. In this way you do not shock the system. This practice is something recommended by some TCM docs, and my guru Swami Satchidananda also recommended this .......Just MHO; blessings and have a great day--Spring is coming! Satya

[ ] Fwd: Detoxing Can Be Bad For Your Health

>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,8123-1016203,00.html>>February 26, 2004>>Reportage>>Detoxing can be bad for your health>By Peta Bee>The detox season is in full swing with Tesco's sales>of brown rice up by 67 per cent in January. But some>experts think that detox diets don't work and can even>be dangerous>>>>FATS, CALORIES, carbohydrates are yesterday’s bad guys>— the new enemies are toxins, with toxic “excess”>blamed for a host of ills from weight gain and poor>digestion to acne and excessive tiredness. Such is our>obsession for the internal clean-out that the early>months of the new year are now well established as the>detox months.>Tesco has reported that the “Detox Season” has become>“an essential fixture on the retail calendar”, and>that “anything that has a well-known connection with>detoxing has flown off the shelves”; its sales of>brown rice in January were up by 67 per cent on the>previous month, and those of the Nutri Centre @Tesco’s>Detox Plan Drink up by more than 200 per cent. And>detox plans regularly top the diet bestsellers lists>at Waterstone’s — with around 200 detox titles in the>UK.>>>>It’s hard to believe that just five years ago detoxing>was considered the preserve of celebrities and>alternative types. Now we’re all at it.>>The popular perception is that a detox will probably>do some good, and it can’t do us any harm. Or can it?>Some experts believe that detoxing is at best a waste>of time, effort and money, and at worst it can be>dangerous.>>Last year , chief dietitian at St>’s Hospital, London, saw a 23-year-old man who>had been rushed to accident and emergency after>slipping into a coma. Doctors reported that his serum>sodium levels had plummeted to a dangerous level,>causing his brain to swell. Constricted by the skull,>the brain has little leeway for expansion and once it>has enlarged by 6 per cent it hits bone and starts to>compress against the hard surface. This can be>serious; the patient remained in a coma for four days.>It was not alcohol or drugs, nor a mystery illness or>reaction to medication that was to blame, but almost>certainly a detox diet.>>The patient had attended a family party where several>close relations had commented on his pasty appearance>and expanding waistline. As a result, he started a>three-week detox diet, which consisted almost>exclusively of fruit, vegetables, fruit juice and>water.>>While his was an extreme case, it is by no means>isolated, says . She sees dozens of people with>detox side effects ranging from bowel problems to>chronic dehydration and potassium depletion as a>result of their attempts to detox. More seriously,>dizziness, respiratory problems, sometimes even>potentially fatal water toxicity, are symptoms of>hyponatraemia, when sodium levels and other body>salts, or electrolytes, in the blood are too dilute,>often as a result of consuming more water and less>salty foods sometimes in conjunction with increased>activity.>>“There is this fixation with the notion that we can>detoxify the body through what we eat and drink, but>the whole idea has no scientific basis and anything>that promises to help you to detox is a rip-off,”> says. “Sticking to a detox regimen for a day>or two won’t be harmful for most people, although>neither will it have any effect on their long-term>health. But when detox plans promote longer periods of>severe dietary restriction, which many do, they can>cause problems.”>>The detox theory is that too much of the wrong sorts>of food, a polluted environment, and unhealthy habits>such as drinking and smoking contribute to a build-up>of poisonous substances in the body, which eventually>buckles under the strain. The signs of this strain>include headaches, body aches, chronic fatigue,>allergies, chronic digestive problems, muscle aches,>autism, schizophrenia, even drug reactions and Gulf>War syndrome fatigue. The substances commonly>considered poisonous include caffeine, alcohol, drugs,>cigarette smoke, exhaust fumes, high protein diets,>organophosphate fertilisers, paint fumes, saturated>fat, steroid hormones, and the list goes on.>>According to the detox theory, by sticking only to>foods that are considered pure and unadulterated, and>by avoiding anything that might strain the internal>organs, you will purge yourself of poisons and undo>the damage wreaked on your health.>>The avoidance of food, or fasting, is not new, and has>been practised for religious reasons for centuries>with the idea that, at certain times, it is beneficial>to concentrate more on keeping faith and less on the>concerns of everyday life such as eating and drinking.>But detoxing usually differs from religious fasting in>duration, or in the stipulations about what cannot be>consumed. Prolonged spiritual fasts, such as the>month-long Ramadan fast practised by Muslims, do allow>food to be consumed at certain times; others, such as>the Jewish Yom Kippur, restrict the practice to 24>hours. Most detox programmes advocate 48 hours to>seven days of a strict dietary regimen. Some suggest>sticking it out for longer; the latest hit with the>Hollywood set is a 21-day programme devised by the>nutritional therapists Woods and De>.>>If detox plans vary in length, their content is pretty>similar. Typically, they prescribe drinking two litres>or more of water a day along with dandelion coffee and>herb teas. Most also recommend half a pint of fruit or>vegetable juice — carrot or apple are favourites>because of their “digestive-boosting” properties — and>some allow unlimited consumption of raw fruit and>vegetables considered beneficial for detoxification>purposes, such as fresh apricots, citrus fruits and>mango or peppers, watercress and bean sprouts. Meat,>fish, dairy, processed foods are definite detox>no-nos.>>So, does detoxing fulfil its promise? “No, it’s>rubbish,” says Professor Tom , of the>department of nutrition at Kings College London.>>“There are so many contradictions in the detox theory>that it is laughable. For starters, the idea that some>foods are poisonous and others are not is misleading>and factually incorrect.”>>Even organic vegetables “are loaded with naturally>occurring toxins”, he says, but the body is adept at>breaking them down and eliminating them. Broccoli and>cabbage, onions and other vegetables are high in such>toxins, while meat and fish are relatively low. Brown>rice contains phytic acid that inhibits the absorption>of some vitamins and minerals, and legumes are>poisonous unless properly cooked. The list goes on.>>“The biggest irony,” says, “is that fasting in>the way that many detox diets recommend actually slows>down the rate at which our bodies can eliminate>poisons. And we need some protein such as meat or fish>for the body’s natural detox organ, the liver, to work>at its best.”>>In recent trials of detox plans at the University of>Southern California (USC), none was found to live up>to the claims that it would purge environmental toxins>over and above what the body itself was capable of>doing anyway. Dr Clements, a chemist at the USC>school of pharmacy, said tests have proved that no>extra toxins were expelled from the body on detox>diets and that suggesting the digestive system needs a>break is ludicrous.>>“We have this wonderful thing called a liver and>gastrointestinal tract which is quite long,” he says.>“Between them, these two manage everything shovelled>into our bodies quite well. We are not made to give>the system a rest.”>>His colleague, Professor Pressman, a lecturer in>clinical medicine at USC, adds that the sudden>shedding of weight that often occurs during detoxing>can be dangerous in the long term. Not only would it>place people who repeat the detox plan at risk of>nutrient deficiencies but, he suggests, it could>predispose them to eating disorders such as anorexia>nervosa. Nor would detoxing help to cure any medical>ailment. “There is no such thing as detoxification>through diet,” Pressman says. “It’s certainly not>medicine, and it’s potentially dangerous if someone>embarking on such a diet delays seeking mainstream>medical care for a problem.”>>And what of the commonly reported side-effects of even>a short detoxification programme? Van Straten,>author of Super Health Detox, concedes that detoxing>initially leads to “what naturopaths call a healing>crisis — a coated tongue, bad breath, increased>temperature, sweating, tremors and general aches and>pains” due to the “sudden release of toxins from the>body”.>>Surely these are a positive sign that detoxing is>doing its job? thinks not. “If someone gets a>headache it is almost certainly because they are>dehydrated or their blood sugar is low,” she says.>>Many people claim they experience a general sense of>euphoria and boosted energy as a result of purifying>their system. puts this down to ketosis, “the>emergency state the body reaches when it is starved of>calories and starts to grab from fat and protein>stores — it can happen on any strict diet, including a>detox. It causes lightheadedness that can be mistaken>for an increase in energy. But it’s not a natural>state and should be discouraged.”>>The idea that detoxing can be unhealthy meets a mixed>response from the detox proponents. Deborah Colson, a>nutritionist at the Institute of Optimum Nutrition’s>(IoN) Brain Bio centre in London, says that “most>people could benefit from detoxing for a month twice a>year”, but suggests that “if your diet is very toxic>and you need an extreme detox of just fruit juice and>water, ideally that should be done under supervision”.>>>Van Straten says that certain groups (diabetics,>pregnant and breast-feeding women and anyone with>thyroid problems or cancer) should never attempt to>detox. However, “for many people, a carefully planned>cleansing of the system will give the body a rest, a>chance to break down everything that is thrown at it”,>and, over a few days, will be safe.>>Ian Marber, of the Food Doctor nutritional clinic, is>uneasy with the way the detox market is heading:>“There are extreme approaches out there that are>risky, and there is also this attitude that if you>detox, you are free to retox, which is just as>unhealthy.”>>While they are adamant that detoxing doesn’t work,>most leading nutritional experts concede that 24-48>hours of consuming more fruit and vegetables and less>convenience food than normal won’t be harmful. Very>often, says , a short detox plan gives people>the psychological spur they need to change their>eating habits for the better.>>Dr Alastair Forbes , a consultant gastroenterologist>at St Mark’s Hospital in Harrow, adds that the>antioxidants and fibre in fruit and vegetables make>them essential for good gut and bowel health and that>if a one or two- day detox kick-starts a habit of>eating more of them, then that is a good thing. Beyond>that, though, don’t expect miracles.>>“People are always looking for a quick fix for their>wrongdoings,” says. “Detoxing is swayed by>guilt. We want to think we can get away with>overindulgence. It’s all a con.”>>Has detox worked for you?>E-mail debate@...>>THE TOP TEN DETOX BOOKS>>Carol Vorderman’s Detox for Life: The 28- Day Detox>Diet by Carol Vorderman and Ko Chohan, Virgin>>Carol Vorderman’s Summer Detox: The 14-Day Mini Detox>by Carol Vorderman and Anita Bean, Virgin>>Stay Healthy. Be Lazy: An Easy Detox by Innocent,>Boxtree>>Detox Handbook by Harper, Dorling Kindersley>>Super Detox by Van Straten, Quadrille>>Detox Yourself by Jane Scrivner, Piatkus>>The Little Book of Detox by Jane Scrivner, Piatkus>>Total Detox: 6 Ways to Revitalise Your Life by Jane>Scrivner, Piatkus>>Detox: 28-Day Plan S, Parragon>>Detox Solutions by Helen , Hamlyn>>Data supplied by Nielsen BookScan>>

[Guest guest]

HCV warriors,

The oft promoted idea that it is possible to detox your body through diet is nothing more than a myth. As I have often challanged anyone who believes in this process to provide any piece of evidence that a single "toxin" has been purged from the body as a rsult of these cleanses...to date not a single toxin or evidence has been named or supplied.... the reason being is that it (they) don't exist! Detoxification processes are a dynamic function of the body...i.e. they happen all the time. The greatest majority of these processes are enzymatic in nature and the only way to increase the rate of detoxification is to induce the levels of these detoxification enzymes. However, doing this also (inducing enzyme systems) has potentialy serious consequences and may lead to increased risk of cancer through the formation of reactive metabolites. The elimination of endogenous and exogenous toxins is controlled not only by the inherent detox enzymes in your body but by the phsyical and chemical properties of teh toxin itself. For example DDT is a very lipophilic toxin while diazinon is a very water soluble toxin. Both of these compounds are enzymatically transformed by the body and eliminated and the rate is based on the enzyme system responsible for the transformation of these chemicals into excretable metabolites and the phsyical/chemical properties of each compound. In short don't waste your time worrying about detoxing your body...it is happening right now and there is nothing you can eat that will alter this rate despite all the mythology that is circulating among alt med believers. Your body is not like a waste basket that gets full and needs emptying every once in a while.....based only in fantasy!

Did you know that most drugs given orally are actually pro-drugs and need enzymatic transformation to produce the active drug....doesn't sound like a body clogged by toxic waste too me!!

regards,

BobK

ps: Unless you have anemia or a lung disease your body is always 99% saturated with oxygen...nothing you can do to change that either since it is a function of how the hemoglobin works cooperatively tobind oxygen....very basic phsyiology.

[Guest guest]

>

> " For example DDT is a very lipophilic toxin while diazinon is a very

>water soluble toxin. Both of these compounds are enzymatically

>transformed by the body and eliminated "

>

>Bob - I was led to believe by a PBS television show of several years

>ago that DDT remains in the system forever, as evidenced by the

>testing of the reporter who hosted the show. His system showed DDT,

>as well as other toxins that had been absorbed many years prior.

Karolyn,

The answer to your question lies in the physical/chemical properties

of the individual chemical in question. I'll try to be brief yet get the

point across. First you must realize that everything is soluble in

water. Some compounds are very soluble in water and some are sparingly

soluble in water. Same goes for lipids (fats). Many (most) chemicals can

be classified according to their partition coefficient. This is a measure

based on two phases; water and octanol (mimics lipids or fats). You

basically take a glass (beaker or whatever) and place a equal volume of

water and octanol (original studies used olive oil). Into this glass you

put your chemical, eg. DDT. You shake the whole mess up and then analyze

how much DDT is in the two compartments (water and oil). In this case

nearly all of the DDT will be in the oil phase but some will be in the

water phase...not much but some. Now if you removed the water in the first

experiment and replaced it with fresh water and the oil containing most of

the DDT from the first experiment and reshake the mixture again and

reanalyze you will find that once again most of the DDT is in the oil but

some of the DDT has come out of the oil and can again be found in the

water. This is equilibrium and the extent of the equilibrium (how much in

water vs how much in oil) depends on the properties of the chemicla in

question....doing this several times you will find that a constant

proportion (not actual amount) will always be found in the oil and water

phases. Now you could eventually remove all (well almost) of the DDT from

the oil by repeating this experiment many many times using fresh water each

time. In the case of humans the octanol represents the fat in our bodies

and the water our plasma. On a continuing basis, assuming constant body

fat composition, the small amount of DDT in our plasma is metabolised and

excreted but a large amount remains in the fat. Each and every moment that

DDT is being excreted another small amount from the fat partitions into the

plasma and will eventually get metabolised and excreted. Now comes the

rub: where did the DDT come from in the first place...our diet. Our diet

still contains DDT in minute traces but these minute traces continue to be

absorbed and partitions into our body fat so often net loss does not exceed

the gains so the levels appear constant. The process of excretion of DDT

is very slow so it appears that all found in the body is never

excreted...not true but what is true is that we excrete some and pick up

even more from our diet. If a person gains weight they increase the volume

of fat and also the amount of DDT that can be sequestered into that larger

fat pool. A person with a large body burden of DDT can actually mobilize a

large amount of that DDT into their plasma by rapid weight loss which

decreases the size of the fat pool and thus decreases the amount of DDT

that can be dissolved in that fat. A person in this case can actually

suffer the symptoms of DDT poisoning if a large amount of weight is

suddenly lost.

The case for diazinon is the reverse with very little soluble in fat and

most soluble in water. Since more is soluble in water it gets rapidly

excreted when compared to the very slow rate of depuration of DDT. These

reports that come out testing for very lipid soluble chemicals, eg. DDT

PCB's, dioxins ect, will always find a body burden of these

chemicals....always! But that doesn't necessarily equate to a increase in

risk since the chemicals are sequestered in the fat and stay in the fat for

all intensive purposes thus not being available to cause problems in the

systemic circulation. The entire detox process is controlled by the

physical and chemical properties of the chemical in question and which

enzyme system is responsible for its detoxification.

These enzyme systems are under genetic control and are inducible. That is

when a person or organism is exposed to a sufficient amount of the chemical

in question a messenger system signal the nucleus of the cell to make more

mRNA to send to the cytoplasm of the cell which is in turn transcribed to

make new and more enzyme to take care of the chemical insult. Once the

insult is removed the enzyme levels return to basal levels. This can cause

problems since many chemicals are metabolized by a single enzyme form and

the increased levels of enzyme and metabolism can lead to problems, eg.

reactive metabolite formation. Doing a cleanse does not effect the

phsyical chemical properties of the chemicals in our bodies and therefore

does not effect the amount of these chemicals excreted......it jsut doesn't

work that way and is the reason I always ask for a single piece of evidence

on a chemical being removed by this process reflecting a decrease in body

burden....the evidence doesn't exist because our bodies and chemicals don't

work that way!! If it weren't for enzymatic transformation a single dose

of phenobarbital would take about 200 years to be removed from the body but

since we do have these enzymes the time is reduced to about 15-24

hours....probably a irrelevant factoid!

>I just read another article on detoxing by yet another MD (of which

>there are many). I really don't understand why these professional and

>well-educated doctors are proponents of detoxing if it does no good.

Just because a person has a MD or PhD does not absolve them from preaching

or selling nonsense. If you look close enough there is a monetary

motivation in all of these cases, books or supplements or some other

connection..

>And they're not all selling books. Of course, as you well know, I

>tend toward simplification. I have never done any real fasting or

>heavy cleansing, only a once a year month-long bowel cleanse; and I

>know I feel good during, as well as after that moderate cleanse.

I would imagine that anyone feels better once the bout of diarrhea has

passed(I know I do!!) but that doesn't mean you are feeling better because

you have reduced the body burden of toxins. To think that way is to make a

leap of faith based on what you have been told or read not a conclusion

based on any evidence. There is such a thig as enterohepatic circulation

where compounds excreted in the bile are resorbed. This is not true for

all chemicals but in the case of acute toxicities or exposures may cause a

problem. The administration of some resins are used to trap these toxins

in the case of acute poisoning. In the average person without a acute high

dose exposure this is not a problem.

>I

>have heard and read many testimonials of people who detox regularly

>and have very good results in the form of feeling better and getting

>rid of disease symptoms. I don't know how any hard evidence could be

>given to show the efficacy of detox. The only evidence could be in

>how the subject feels, no?

The problem with that line of reasoning is that it is all subjective. A

person feels good when the runs stop but the leap of faith is made that the

feel good feeling is from the removal of toxins with no evidence except

belief that this has occurred. Chemical analysis is very simple for many

chemicals...one only has to analyze the feces or urine for these

chemicals...before after and during such a cleanse to provide such evidence

of increased excretion. Doesn't require much money or instrumentation yet

not one of the proponents can demonstrate this effect with a single

measurement of a single chemical....ask yourself why?

Teh subject may feel better for a number of reasons but removal of toxins

is not the most likely.

>What are your feelings about parasites?

Internal parasites are real but we as a population are not typically

infected (infested) with them. More mythology.

regards,

BobK

ps: if you have more questions on this I can try to answer them for you or

if you have specific examples of a favorite toxin you are concerned with.

>Have a good day, Bob.

>Karolyn

>

> > HCV warriors,

> > The oft promoted idea that it is possible to detox your body

>through diet is nothing more than a myth. As I have often challanged

>anyone who believes in this process to provide any piece of evidence

>that a single " toxin " has been purged from the body as a rsult of

>these cleanses...to date not a single toxin or evidence has been

>named or supplied.... the reason being is that it (they) don't

>exist! Detoxification processes are a dynamic function of the

>body...i.e. they happen all the time. The greatest majority of these

>processes are enzymatic in nature and the only way to increase the

>rate of detoxification is to induce the levels of these

>detoxification enzymes. However, doing this also (inducing enzyme

>systems) has potentialy serious consequences and may lead to

>increased risk of cancer through the formation of reactive

>metabolites. The elimination of endogenous and exogenous toxins is

>controlled not only by the inherent detox enzymes in your body but by

>the phsyical and chemical properties of teh toxin itself. For

>example DDT is a very lipophilic toxin while diazinon is a very water

>soluble toxin. Both of these compounds are enzymatically transformed

>by the body and eliminated and the rate is based on the enzyme system

>responsible for the transformation of these chemicals into excretable

>metabolites and the phsyical/chemical properties of each compound.

>In short don't waste your time worrying about detoxing your body...it

>is happening right now and there is nothing you can eat that will

>alter this rate despite all the mythology that is circulating among

>alt med believers. Your body is not like a waste basket that gets

>full and needs emptying every once in a while.....based only in

>fantasy!

> >

> > Did you know that most drugs given orally are actually pro-drugs

>and need enzymatic transformation to produce the active

>drug....doesn't sound like a body clogged by toxic waste too me!!

> >

> > regards,

> > BobK

> >

> > ps: Unless you have anemia or a lung disease your body is always

>99% saturated with oxygen...nothing you can do to change that either

>since it is a function of how the hemoglobin works cooperatively

>tobind oxygen....very basic phsyiology.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

" For example DDT is a very lipophilic toxin while diazinon is a very

water soluble toxin. Both of these compounds are enzymatically

transformed by the body and eliminated "

Bob - I was led to believe by a PBS television show of several years

ago that DDT remains in the system forever, as evidenced by the

testing of the reporter who hosted the show. His system showed DDT,

as well as other toxins that had been absorbed many years prior.

I just read another article on detoxing by yet another MD (of which

there are many). I really don't understand why these professional and

well-educated doctors are proponents of detoxing if it does no good.

And they're not all selling books. Of course, as you well know, I

tend toward simplification. I have never done any real fasting or

heavy cleansing, only a once a year month-long bowel cleanse; and I

know I feel good during, as well as after that moderate cleanse. I

have heard and read many testimonials of people who detox regularly

and have very good results in the form of feeling better and getting

rid of disease symptoms. I don't know how any hard evidence could be

given to show the efficacy of detox. The only evidence could be in

how the subject feels, no?

What are your feelings about parasites?

Have a good day, Bob.

Karolyn

> HCV warriors,

> The oft promoted idea that it is possible to detox your body

through diet is nothing more than a myth. As I have often challanged

anyone who believes in this process to provide any piece of evidence

that a single " toxin " has been purged from the body as a rsult of

these cleanses...to date not a single toxin or evidence has been

named or supplied.... the reason being is that it (they) don't

exist! Detoxification processes are a dynamic function of the

body...i.e. they happen all the time. The greatest majority of these

processes are enzymatic in nature and the only way to increase the

rate of detoxification is to induce the levels of these

detoxification enzymes. However, doing this also (inducing enzyme

systems) has potentialy serious consequences and may lead to

increased risk of cancer through the formation of reactive

metabolites. The elimination of endogenous and exogenous toxins is

controlled not only by the inherent detox enzymes in your body but by

the phsyical and chemical properties of teh toxin itself. For

example DDT is a very lipophilic toxin while diazinon is a very water

soluble toxin. Both of these compounds are enzymatically transformed

by the body and eliminated and the rate is based on the enzyme system

responsible for the transformation of these chemicals into excretable

metabolites and the phsyical/chemical properties of each compound.

In short don't waste your time worrying about detoxing your body...it

is happening right now and there is nothing you can eat that will

alter this rate despite all the mythology that is circulating among

alt med believers. Your body is not like a waste basket that gets

full and needs emptying every once in a while.....based only in

fantasy!

>

> Did you know that most drugs given orally are actually pro-drugs

and need enzymatic transformation to produce the active

drug....doesn't sound like a body clogged by toxic waste too me!!

>

> regards,

> BobK

>

> ps: Unless you have anemia or a lung disease your body is always

99% saturated with oxygen...nothing you can do to change that either

since it is a function of how the hemoglobin works cooperatively

tobind oxygen....very basic phsyiology.