THE END...and now folks back to Hepatitis C...

February 17, 2003

I suspect has been shut down by his ISP. He may be back with

another provider and new handle.

In 2001, the British Medical Journal did publish two reviews of

existing scientific studies on cannabinoids, one on pain management,

the other on nausea control. These reviews did not include data on

herbal cannabis, also called marijuana; instead, the studies reviewed

examined only oral THC and two synthetic cannabinoids.

The reviews found that " Cannabinoids are no more effective than

codeine in controlling pain and have depressant effects on the central

nervous system that limit their use, " and " In selected patients, the

cannabinoids tested in these trials may be useful as mood enhancing

adjuvants for controlling chemotherapy related sickness. Potentially

serious adverse effects, even when taken short term orally or

intramuscularly, are likely to limit their widespread use. "

Sources: , Fiona A., R. Tramer, et al., " Are

cannabinoids an effective and safe treatment option in the management

of pain? A qualitative systematic review, " British Medical Journal

2001; 323:13, July 7, 2001; Tramer, R., Dawn Carroll, et al.,

" Cannabinoids for control of chemotherapy induced nausea and vomiting:

quantitative systematic review, " British Medical Journal 2001;323:16,

July 7, 2001.)

Other medical experts support cannabis's therapeutic potential.

According to the Canadian Medical Association Journal:

" Health Canada's decision to legitimize the medicinal use of marijuana

is a step in the right direction. But a bolder stride is needed. The

possession of small quantities for personal use should be

decriminalized. The minimal negative health effects of moderate use

would be attested to by the estimated 1.5 million Canadians who smoke

marijuana for recreational purposes. The real harm is the legal and

social fallout. About half of all drug arrests in Canada are for

simple possession of small amounts of marijuana: about 31,299

convictions in 1995 alone. "

Source: " Marijuana: federal smoke clears, a little, " Canadian Medical

Association Journal, May 15, 2001, Vol. 164, No. 10, p. 1397.

In an editorial in the New England Journal of Medicine in 1997, Dr.

Jerome Kassirer wrote:

" Federal authorities should rescind their prohibition of the medicinal

use of marijuana for seriously ill patients and allow physicians to

decide which patients to treat. The government should change

marijuana's status from that of a Schedule 1 drug (considered to be

potentially addictive and with no current medical use) to that of a

Schedule 2 drug (potentially addictive but with some accepted medical

use) and regulate it accordingly. To ensure its proper distribution

and use, the government could declare itself the only agency

sanctioned to provide the marijuana. I believe that such a change in

policy would have no adverse effects. The argument that it would be a

signal to the young that 'marijuana is OK' is, I believe, specious. "

Source: Kassirer, Jerome P., MD, " Federal Foolishness and Marijuana, "

New England Journal of Medicine, Vol. 336, No. 5, Jan. 30, 1997, from

the web at

http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v97/n000/a014.html.

In the US government's Institute of Medicine report on medical

marijuana in 1999, the authors conclude:

" The accumulated data indicate a potential therapeutic value for

cannabinoid drugs, particularly for symptoms such as pain relief,

control of nausea and vomiting, and appetite stimulation. "

Source: Joy, Janet E., Stanley J. Jr., and A. Benson Jr.,

" Marijuana and Medicine: Assessing the Science Base, " Division of

Neuroscience and Behavioral Research, Institute of Medicine, National

Academy of Sciences (Washington, DC: National Academy Press, 1999).

A number of studies on the effects of cannabis on driving have been

conducted over the past few decades, in the US and internationally.

Though driving under the influence of any controlled substance is a

matter of concern, there is no evidence that cannabis use alone is a

significant cause of motor vehicle accidents. The European Monitoring

Centre on Drugs and Drug Addiction noted in its 1999 literature review

on drugged driving that " Field studies have demonstrated that cannabis

is one of the most prevalent drugs discovered in fluid samples taken

from drivers. However, assessment of the causal role of cannabis in

accident occurrence is complicated by the fact that alcohol is also

present in the majority of samples. "

Source: European Monitoring Centre for Drugs and Drug Addiction.

Literature Review on the Relation between Drug Use, Impaired Driving

and Traffic Accidents. (CT.97.EP.14) Lisbon: EMCDDA, February 1999. p.

viii.

This distortion is closely related to another distortion regarding

marijuana and emergency room visits. See Distortion 6: Emergency Room

Visits for more information, but generally, mentions of cannabis in

emergency department visits does not mean that the drug was the

*cause* of the visit. The federal Drug Abuse Warning Network's report

for 2000 says:

" Marijuana/hashish mentions related to all motives were stable from

1999 to 2000 (Table 26). ED contacts due to chronic effects increased

25 percent (from 6,891 to 8,621), and contacts due to patients seeking

detoxification increased 18 percent (from 11,908 to 14,110). However,

2 important caveats must be kept in mind. First, the drug use motive

and reason for ED contact were frequently unknown or reported as

`other' (24% and 23% of mentions, respectively). Second, drug use

motive and reason for ED contact pertain to the episode, not a

particular drug. Since marijuana/hashish is frequently reported in

combination with other drugs, the reason for the ED contact may be

more relevant to the other drug(s) involved in the episode. "

Source: " Year-End 2000 Emergency Department Data from the Drug Abuse

Warning Network, " Office of Applied Studies, Substance Abuse and

Mental Health Services Administration, US Dept. of Health and Human

Services, July 2001. p. 21)

Probably the best study of cannabis and driving was conducted for the

Road Safety Division of the UK's Department of the Environment,

Transport and the Regions, by the Transport Research Laboratory, Ltd.,

in 2000. They concluded that, " Overall, it is possible to conclude

that cannabis has a measurable effect on psycho-motor performance,

particularly tracking ability. Its effect on higher cognitive

functions, for example divided attention tasks associated with

driving, appear not to be as critical. Drivers under the influence of

cannabis seem aware that they are impaired, and attempt to compensate

for this impairment by reducing the difficulty of the driving task,

for example by driving more slowly. "

Source: Sexton, BF, RJ Tunbridge, N -, et al., " The

Influence of Cannabis on Driving, " Prepared for Road Safety Division,

Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions, UK, by

Transport Research Laboratory, Ltd., TRL Report 477, 2000, p. 4.

The report further notes that alcohol has a more severe, negative

effect on driving than does cannabis: " In terms of road safety, it

cannot be concluded that driving under the influence is not a hazard,

as the effects on various aspects of driver performance are

unpredictable. In comparison with alcohol however, the severe effects

of alcohol on the higher cognitive processes of driving are likely to

make this more of a hazard, particularly at higher blood alcohol levels. "

" The Influence of Cannabis on Driving, " p. 29.

Importantly, the TRL report concludes that it is possible for law

enforcement to determine whether a person is impaired by cannabis,

though they do recommend that more work be done to refine the

techniques: " On the basis of these observations, the general medical

examination and standardized impairment testing applied by the police

surgeons were judged to be effective in determining both impairment

and establishing condition due to a drug. Preliminary conclusions were

drawn by the police surgeons on the number and combination of

impairment test failures which would allow a conclusion that the

driver was 'impaired'. Further refinement and calibration of these

techniques in the field, for use by both police officers and police

surgeons, is however desirable and is planned. "

This argument gets cast in a number of ways. It was expressed rather

well in this conversation between the late President Nixon and

entertainer Art Linkletter. A tape of the conversation is available at

the National Archives and Records Administration in Greenbelt, MD. The

transcription below was done by CSDP Research Director Doug McVay in

2002. A fuller transcript from this and other Nixon-era conversations

regarding marijuana and drug policy is available by clicking here.

AL: " Yes. [unintelligible] Really. But, but another big difference

between marijuana and alcohol is that when people s- smoke marijuana,

they smoke it to get high. In every case, when most people drink, they

drink to be sociable. You don't see people -- "

RN: " That's right, that's right. "

AL: " They sit down with a marijuana cigarette to get high -- "

RN: " A person does not drink to get drunk. "

AL: " That's right. "

RN: " A person drinks to have fun. "

Source: Oval Office Conversation No. 500-17 -- May 18, 1971, 12:16 pm

- 12:35 pm -- President Nixon met with Arthur G. (Art)

Linkletter and DeVan L. Shumway; Oliver F. ( " Ollie " ) Atkins was

present at the beginning of the meeting.

The distortion here is the notion that people aren't impaired by

alcohol unless they feel drunk. The reality is much different. The

National Highway Traffic Safety Administration of the US Department of

Transportation notes that " Burns and Fiorentino (2000) examined the

relationships of drinkers' ratings of their own intoxication and

driving impairment in an alcohol experiment with 48 men and women,

ages 21-54 years, who were light, moderate and heavy drinkers. The

subjects rated their degree of intoxication at BACs of .000 to .125.

The authors found that heavy drinkers rated their intoxication levels

lower than either moderate or light drinkers, a finding that was said

to reflect their acquired tolerance to alcohol effects. Heavy-drinking

men generally had lower intoxication ratings than women, but driving

ratings between heavy-drinking men and women did not differ.

" In a study of drinking practices and attitudes of pub patrons in

Israel, Shinar (1995) found a pattern of " alarming ignorance of the

effects of drinking, total disregard for the risks of driving when

under the influence of alcohol, but coupled with relatively

conservative amounts of alcohol consumption. " This was seen as

particularly troubling, given a trend toward increasing alcohol

consumption by Israeli youth. "

Source: " Chapter 4: Drinking Drivers, Pedestrians and Bicyclists, "

from the web at

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/research/AlcoholHighway/4_drinking_driver\

s.htm

, part of " Alcohol and Highway Safety 2001: A Review of the State of

Knowledge, " US Dept. of Transportation, National Highway Traffic

Safety Administration (DOT HS 809 383), November 2001, on the web at

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/research/AlcoholHighway/index.htm " >

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/research/AlcoholHighway/index.htm

, last accessed Jan. 2, 2003.

Indeed, alcohol users are frequently cautioned that they can be

impaired without being aware of it, for example in this US military

presentation on " Irresponsible vs. Responsible Use of Alcohol " at

http://www.22asg.vicenza.army.mil/MWR/Alcohol/Risk%20Reduction%20Drinking.ppt

, last accessed Jan. 1, 2003, and this Los Angeles Police Department

standards document at

http://www.ci.la.ca.us/LAPD/traffic/dre/certgls.htm , last accessed

Jan. 1, 2003.

In terms of cannabis and a user's perception of impairment, it has

been noted in driving studies that " Drivers under the influence of

cannabis seem aware that they are impaired, and attempt to compensate

for this impairment by reducing the difficulty of the driving task,

for example by driving more slowly. "

Source: Sexton, BF, RJ Tunbridge, N -, et al., " The

Influence of Cannabis on Driving, " Prepared for Road Safety Division,

Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions, UK, by

Transport Research Laboratory, Ltd., TRL Report 477, 2000, p. 4.

In other words, people who use cannabis may be more aware of the fact

that they're impaired after they have used, compared with people who

drink alcohol and who do not feel impaired after just a drink or two,

even though their driving ability has been lessened. Any use of a

controlled substance, even just one beer or other social drinking, can

impair driving ability for a short time afterward even though an

individual may not perceive themselves as impaired.

February 17, 2003

LOL shut down for free speech? This isn't Canada you know.

Have a great day Andy ...

[ ] THE END...and now folks back to Hepatitis C...

I suspect has been shut down by his ISP. He may be back withanother provider and new handle.In 2001, the British Medical Journal did publish two reviews ofexisting scientific studies on cannabinoids, one on pain management,the other on nausea control. These reviews did not include data onherbal cannabis, also called marijuana; instead, the studies reviewedexamined only oral THC and two synthetic cannabinoids.The reviews found that "Cannabinoids are no more effective thancodeine in controlling pain and have depressant effects on the centralnervous system that limit their use," and "In selected patients, thecannabinoids tested in these trials may be useful as mood enhancingadjuvants for controlling chemotherapy related sickness. Potentiallyserious adverse effects, even when taken short term orally orintramuscularly, are likely to limit their widespread use."Sources: , Fiona A., R. Tramer, et al., "Arecannabinoids an effective and safe treatment option in the managementof pain? A qualitative systematic review," British Medical Journal2001; 323:13, July 7, 2001; Tramer, R., Dawn Carroll, et al.,"Cannabinoids for control of chemotherapy induced nausea and vomiting:quantitative systematic review," British Medical Journal 2001;323:16,July 7, 2001.)Other medical experts support cannabis's therapeutic potential.According to the Canadian Medical Association Journal:"Health Canada's decision to legitimize the medicinal use of marijuanais a step in the right direction. But a bolder stride is needed. Thepossession of small quantities for personal use should bedecriminalized. The minimal negative health effects of moderate usewould be attested to by the estimated 1.5 million Canadians who smokemarijuana for recreational purposes. The real harm is the legal andsocial fallout. About half of all drug arrests in Canada are forsimple possession of small amounts of marijuana: about 31,299convictions in 1995 alone."Source: "Marijuana: federal smoke clears, a little," Canadian MedicalAssociation Journal, May 15, 2001, Vol. 164, No. 10, p. 1397.In an editorial in the New England Journal of Medicine in 1997, Dr.Jerome Kassirer wrote:"Federal authorities should rescind their prohibition of the medicinaluse of marijuana for seriously ill patients and allow physicians todecide which patients to treat. The government should changemarijuana's status from that of a Schedule 1 drug (considered to bepotentially addictive and with no current medical use) to that of aSchedule 2 drug (potentially addictive but with some accepted medicaluse) and regulate it accordingly. To ensure its proper distributionand use, the government could declare itself the only agencysanctioned to provide the marijuana. I believe that such a change inpolicy would have no adverse effects. The argument that it would be asignal to the young that 'marijuana is OK' is, I believe, specious."Source: Kassirer, Jerome P., MD, "Federal Foolishness and Marijuana,"New England Journal of Medicine, Vol. 336, No. 5, Jan. 30, 1997, fromthe web athttp://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v97/n000/a014.html.In the US government's Institute of Medicine report on medicalmarijuana in 1999, the authors conclude:"The accumulated data indicate a potential therapeutic value forcannabinoid drugs, particularly for symptoms such as pain relief,control of nausea and vomiting, and appetite stimulation."Source: Joy, Janet E., Stanley J. Jr., and A. Benson Jr.,"Marijuana and Medicine: Assessing the Science Base," Division ofNeuroscience and Behavioral Research, Institute of Medicine, NationalAcademy of Sciences (Washington, DC: National Academy Press, 1999).A number of studies on the effects of cannabis on driving have beenconducted over the past few decades, in the US and internationally.Though driving under the influence of any controlled substance is amatter of concern, there is no evidence that cannabis use alone is asignificant cause of motor vehicle accidents. The European MonitoringCentre on Drugs and Drug Addiction noted in its 1999 literature reviewon drugged driving that "Field studies have demonstrated that cannabisis one of the most prevalent drugs discovered in fluid samples takenfrom drivers. However, assessment of the causal role of cannabis inaccident occurrence is complicated by the fact that alcohol is alsopresent in the majority of samples."Source: European Monitoring Centre for Drugs and Drug Addiction.Literature Review on the Relation between Drug Use, Impaired Drivingand Traffic Accidents. (CT.97.EP.14) Lisbon: EMCDDA, February 1999. p.viii.This distortion is closely related to another distortion regardingmarijuana and emergency room visits. See Distortion 6: Emergency RoomVisits for more information, but generally, mentions of cannabis inemergency department visits does not mean that the drug was the*cause* of the visit. The federal Drug Abuse Warning Network's reportfor 2000 says:"Marijuana/hashish mentions related to all motives were stable from1999 to 2000 (Table 26). ED contacts due to chronic effects increased25 percent (from 6,891 to 8,621), and contacts due to patients seekingdetoxification increased 18 percent (from 11,908 to 14,110). However,2 important caveats must be kept in mind. First, the drug use motiveand reason for ED contact were frequently unknown or reported as`other' (24% and 23% of mentions, respectively). Second, drug usemotive and reason for ED contact pertain to the episode, not aparticular drug. Since marijuana/hashish is frequently reported incombination with other drugs, the reason for the ED contact may bemore relevant to the other drug(s) involved in the episode."Source: "Year-End 2000 Emergency Department Data from the Drug AbuseWarning Network," Office of Applied Studies, Substance Abuse andMental Health Services Administration, US Dept. of Health and HumanServices, July 2001. p. 21)Probably the best study of cannabis and driving was conducted for theRoad Safety Division of the UK's Department of the Environment,Transport and the Regions, by the Transport Research Laboratory, Ltd.,in 2000. They concluded that, "Overall, it is possible to concludethat cannabis has a measurable effect on psycho-motor performance,particularly tracking ability. Its effect on higher cognitivefunctions, for example divided attention tasks associated withdriving, appear not to be as critical. Drivers under the influence ofcannabis seem aware that they are impaired, and attempt to compensatefor this impairment by reducing the difficulty of the driving task,for example by driving more slowly."Source: Sexton, BF, RJ Tunbridge, N -, et al., "TheInfluence of Cannabis on Driving," Prepared for Road Safety Division,Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions, UK, byTransport Research Laboratory, Ltd., TRL Report 477, 2000, p. 4.The report further notes that alcohol has a more severe, negativeeffect on driving than does cannabis: "In terms of road safety, itcannot be concluded that driving under the influence is not a hazard,as the effects on various aspects of driver performance areunpredictable. In comparison with alcohol however, the severe effectsof alcohol on the higher cognitive processes of driving are likely tomake this more of a hazard, particularly at higher blood alcohol levels.""The Influence of Cannabis on Driving," p. 29.Importantly, the TRL report concludes that it is possible for lawenforcement to determine whether a person is impaired by cannabis,though they do recommend that more work be done to refine thetechniques: "On the basis of these observations, the general medicalexamination and standardized impairment testing applied by the policesurgeons were judged to be effective in determining both impairmentand establishing condition due to a drug. Preliminary conclusions weredrawn by the police surgeons on the number and combination ofimpairment test failures which would allow a conclusion that thedriver was 'impaired'. Further refinement and calibration of thesetechniques in the field, for use by both police officers and policesurgeons, is however desirable and is planned."This argument gets cast in a number of ways. It was expressed ratherwell in this conversation between the late President Nixon andentertainer Art Linkletter. A tape of the conversation is available atthe National Archives and Records Administration in Greenbelt, MD. Thetranscription below was done by CSDP Research Director Doug McVay in2002. A fuller transcript from this and other Nixon-era conversationsregarding marijuana and drug policy is available by clicking here.AL: "Yes. [unintelligible] Really. But, but another big differencebetween marijuana and alcohol is that when people s- smoke marijuana,they smoke it to get high. In every case, when most people drink, theydrink to be sociable. You don't see people --"RN: "That's right, that's right."AL: "They sit down with a marijuana cigarette to get high --"RN: "A person does not drink to get drunk."AL: "That's right."RN: "A person drinks to have fun."Source: Oval Office Conversation No. 500-17 -- May 18, 1971, 12:16 pm- 12:35 pm -- President Nixon met with Arthur G. (Art)Linkletter and DeVan L. Shumway; Oliver F. ("Ollie") Atkins waspresent at the beginning of the meeting.The distortion here is the notion that people aren't impaired byalcohol unless they feel drunk. The reality is much different. TheNational Highway Traffic Safety Administration of the US Department ofTransportation notes that "Burns and Fiorentino (2000) examined therelationships of drinkers' ratings of their own intoxication anddriving impairment in an alcohol experiment with 48 men and women,ages 21-54 years, who were light, moderate and heavy drinkers. Thesubjects rated their degree of intoxication at BACs of .000 to .125.The authors found that heavy drinkers rated their intoxication levelslower than either moderate or light drinkers, a finding that was saidto reflect their acquired tolerance to alcohol effects. Heavy-drinkingmen generally had lower intoxication ratings than women, but drivingratings between heavy-drinking men and women did not differ."In a study of drinking practices and attitudes of pub patrons inIsrael, Shinar (1995) found a pattern of "alarming ignorance of theeffects of drinking, total disregard for the risks of driving whenunder the influence of alcohol, but coupled with relativelyconservative amounts of alcohol consumption." This was seen asparticularly troubling, given a trend toward increasing alcoholconsumption by Israeli youth."Source: "Chapter 4: Drinking Drivers, Pedestrians and Bicyclists,"from the web athttp://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/research/AlcoholHighway/4_drinking_drivers.htm, part of "Alcohol and Highway Safety 2001: A Review of the State ofKnowledge," US Dept. of Transportation, National Highway TrafficSafety Administration (DOT HS 809 383), November 2001, on the web athttp://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/research/AlcoholHighway/index.htm">http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/research/AlcoholHighway/index.htm, last accessed Jan. 2, 2003.Indeed, alcohol users are frequently cautioned that they can beimpaired without being aware of it, for example in this US militarypresentation on "Irresponsible vs. Responsible Use of Alcohol" athttp://www.22asg.vicenza.army.mil/MWR/Alcohol/Risk%20Reduction%20Drinking.ppt, last accessed Jan. 1, 2003, and this Los Angeles Police Departmentstandards document athttp://www.ci.la.ca.us/LAPD/traffic/dre/certgls.htm , last accessedJan. 1, 2003.In terms of cannabis and a user's perception of impairment, it hasbeen noted in driving studies that "Drivers under the influence ofcannabis seem aware that they are impaired, and attempt to compensatefor this impairment by reducing the difficulty of the driving task,for example by driving more slowly."Source: Sexton, BF, RJ Tunbridge, N -, et al., "TheInfluence of Cannabis on Driving," Prepared for Road Safety Division,Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions, UK, byTransport Research Laboratory, Ltd., TRL Report 477, 2000, p. 4.In other words, people who use cannabis may be more aware of the factthat they're impaired after they have used, compared with people whodrink alcohol and who do not feel impaired after just a drink or two,even though their driving ability has been lessened. Any use of acontrolled substance, even just one beer or other social drinking, canimpair driving ability for a short time afterward even though anindividual may not perceive themselves as impaired.

February 17, 2003

Hi my name is ! Your a ass hole.

Hi my name is ! shut the hell up.

Hi my name is ! Fuck you.

Hi my name is ! You suck.

Hi my name is ! I smoke pot but don't tell anyone. Jeanine will make fun of me.

Hi my name is ! I'm really sick in the head and I use these boards to relive my self.

[ ] THE END...and now folks back to Hepatitis C...

I suspect has been shut down by his ISP. He may be back withanother provider and new handle.In 2001, the British Medical Journal did publish two reviews ofexisting scientific studies on cannabinoids, one on pain management,the other on nausea control. These reviews did not include data onherbal cannabis, also called marijuana; instead, the studies reviewedexamined only oral THC and two synthetic cannabinoids.The reviews found that "Cannabinoids are no more effective thancodeine in controlling pain and have depressant effects on the centralnervous system that limit their use," and "In selected patients, thecannabinoids tested in these trials may be useful as mood enhancingadjuvants for controlling chemotherapy related sickness. Potentiallyserious adverse effects, even when taken short term orally orintramuscularly, are likely to limit their widespread use."Sources: , Fiona A., R. Tramer, et al., "Arecannabinoids an effective and safe treatment option in the managementof pain? A qualitative systematic review," British Medical Journal2001; 323:13, July 7, 2001; Tramer, R., Dawn Carroll, et al.,"Cannabinoids for control of chemotherapy induced nausea and vomiting:quantitative systematic review," British Medical Journal 2001;323:16,July 7, 2001.)Other medical experts support cannabis's therapeutic potential.According to the Canadian Medical Association Journal:"Health Canada's decision to legitimize the medicinal use of marijuanais a step in the right direction. But a bolder stride is needed. Thepossession of small quantities for personal use should bedecriminalized. The minimal negative health effects of moderate usewould be attested to by the estimated 1.5 million Canadians who smokemarijuana for recreational purposes. The real harm is the legal andsocial fallout. About half of all drug arrests in Canada are forsimple possession of small amounts of marijuana: about 31,299convictions in 1995 alone."Source: "Marijuana: federal smoke clears, a little," Canadian MedicalAssociation Journal, May 15, 2001, Vol. 164, No. 10, p. 1397.In an editorial in the New England Journal of Medicine in 1997, Dr.Jerome Kassirer wrote:"Federal authorities should rescind their prohibition of the medicinaluse of marijuana for seriously ill patients and allow physicians todecide which patients to treat. The government should changemarijuana's status from that of a Schedule 1 drug (considered to bepotentially addictive and with no current medical use) to that of aSchedule 2 drug (potentially addictive but with some accepted medicaluse) and regulate it accordingly. To ensure its proper distributionand use, the government could declare itself the only agencysanctioned to provide the marijuana. I believe that such a change inpolicy would have no adverse effects. The argument that it would be asignal to the young that 'marijuana is OK' is, I believe, specious."Source: Kassirer, Jerome P., MD, "Federal Foolishness and Marijuana,"New England Journal of Medicine, Vol. 336, No. 5, Jan. 30, 1997, fromthe web athttp://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v97/n000/a014.html.In the US government's Institute of Medicine report on medicalmarijuana in 1999, the authors conclude:"The accumulated data indicate a potential therapeutic value forcannabinoid drugs, particularly for symptoms such as pain relief,control of nausea and vomiting, and appetite stimulation."Source: Joy, Janet E., Stanley J. Jr., and A. Benson Jr.,"Marijuana and Medicine: Assessing the Science Base," Division ofNeuroscience and Behavioral Research, Institute of Medicine, NationalAcademy of Sciences (Washington, DC: National Academy Press, 1999).A number of studies on the effects of cannabis on driving have beenconducted over the past few decades, in the US and internationally.Though driving under the influence of any controlled substance is amatter of concern, there is no evidence that cannabis use alone is asignificant cause of motor vehicle accidents. The European MonitoringCentre on Drugs and Drug Addiction noted in its 1999 literature reviewon drugged driving that "Field studies have demonstrated that cannabisis one of the most prevalent drugs discovered in fluid samples takenfrom drivers. However, assessment of the causal role of cannabis inaccident occurrence is complicated by the fact that alcohol is alsopresent in the majority of samples."Source: European Monitoring Centre for Drugs and Drug Addiction.Literature Review on the Relation between Drug Use, Impaired Drivingand Traffic Accidents. (CT.97.EP.14) Lisbon: EMCDDA, February 1999. p.viii.This distortion is closely related to another distortion regardingmarijuana and emergency room visits. See Distortion 6: Emergency RoomVisits for more information, but generally, mentions of cannabis inemergency department visits does not mean that the drug was the*cause* of the visit. The federal Drug Abuse Warning Network's reportfor 2000 says:"Marijuana/hashish mentions related to all motives were stable from1999 to 2000 (Table 26). ED contacts due to chronic effects increased25 percent (from 6,891 to 8,621), and contacts due to patients seekingdetoxification increased 18 percent (from 11,908 to 14,110). However,2 important caveats must be kept in mind. First, the drug use motiveand reason for ED contact were frequently unknown or reported as`other' (24% and 23% of mentions, respectively). Second, drug usemotive and reason for ED contact pertain to the episode, not aparticular drug. Since marijuana/hashish is frequently reported incombination with other drugs, the reason for the ED contact may bemore relevant to the other drug(s) involved in the episode."Source: "Year-End 2000 Emergency Department Data from the Drug AbuseWarning Network," Office of Applied Studies, Substance Abuse andMental Health Services Administration, US Dept. of Health and HumanServices, July 2001. p. 21)Probably the best study of cannabis and driving was conducted for theRoad Safety Division of the UK's Department of the Environment,Transport and the Regions, by the Transport Research Laboratory, Ltd.,in 2000. They concluded that, "Overall, it is possible to concludethat cannabis has a measurable effect on psycho-motor performance,particularly tracking ability. Its effect on higher cognitivefunctions, for example divided attention tasks associated withdriving, appear not to be as critical. Drivers under the influence ofcannabis seem aware that they are impaired, and attempt to compensatefor this impairment by reducing the difficulty of the driving task,for example by driving more slowly."Source: Sexton, BF, RJ Tunbridge, N -, et al., "TheInfluence of Cannabis on Driving," Prepared for Road Safety Division,Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions, UK, byTransport Research Laboratory, Ltd., TRL Report 477, 2000, p. 4.The report further notes that alcohol has a more severe, negativeeffect on driving than does cannabis: "In terms of road safety, itcannot be concluded that driving under the influence is not a hazard,as the effects on various aspects of driver performance areunpredictable. In comparison with alcohol however, the severe effectsof alcohol on the higher cognitive processes of driving are likely tomake this more of a hazard, particularly at higher blood alcohol levels.""The Influence of Cannabis on Driving," p. 29.Importantly, the TRL report concludes that it is possible for lawenforcement to determine whether a person is impaired by cannabis,though they do recommend that more work be done to refine thetechniques: "On the basis of these observations, the general medicalexamination and standardized impairment testing applied by the policesurgeons were judged to be effective in determining both impairmentand establishing condition due to a drug. Preliminary conclusions weredrawn by the police surgeons on the number and combination ofimpairment test failures which would allow a conclusion that thedriver was 'impaired'. Further refinement and calibration of thesetechniques in the field, for use by both police officers and policesurgeons, is however desirable and is planned."This argument gets cast in a number of ways. It was expressed ratherwell in this conversation between the late President Nixon andentertainer Art Linkletter. A tape of the conversation is available atthe National Archives and Records Administration in Greenbelt, MD. Thetranscription below was done by CSDP Research Director Doug McVay in2002. A fuller transcript from this and other Nixon-era conversationsregarding marijuana and drug policy is available by clicking here.AL: "Yes. [unintelligible] Really. But, but another big differencebetween marijuana and alcohol is that when people s- smoke marijuana,they smoke it to get high. In every case, when most people drink, theydrink to be sociable. You don't see people --"RN: "That's right, that's right."AL: "They sit down with a marijuana cigarette to get high --"RN: "A person does not drink to get drunk."AL: "That's right."RN: "A person drinks to have fun."Source: Oval Office Conversation No. 500-17 -- May 18, 1971, 12:16 pm- 12:35 pm -- President Nixon met with Arthur G. (Art)Linkletter and DeVan L. Shumway; Oliver F. ("Ollie") Atkins waspresent at the beginning of the meeting.The distortion here is the notion that people aren't impaired byalcohol unless they feel drunk. The reality is much different. TheNational Highway Traffic Safety Administration of the US Department ofTransportation notes that "Burns and Fiorentino (2000) examined therelationships of drinkers' ratings of their own intoxication anddriving impairment in an alcohol experiment with 48 men and women,ages 21-54 years, who were light, moderate and heavy drinkers. Thesubjects rated their degree of intoxication at BACs of .000 to .125.The authors found that heavy drinkers rated their intoxication levelslower than either moderate or light drinkers, a finding that was saidto reflect their acquired tolerance to alcohol effects. Heavy-drinkingmen generally had lower intoxication ratings than women, but drivingratings between heavy-drinking men and women did not differ."In a study of drinking practices and attitudes of pub patrons inIsrael, Shinar (1995) found a pattern of "alarming ignorance of theeffects of drinking, total disregard for the risks of driving whenunder the influence of alcohol, but coupled with relativelyconservative amounts of alcohol consumption." This was seen asparticularly troubling, given a trend toward increasing alcoholconsumption by Israeli youth."Source: "Chapter 4: Drinking Drivers, Pedestrians and Bicyclists,"from the web athttp://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/research/AlcoholHighway/4_drinking_drivers.htm, part of "Alcohol and Highway Safety 2001: A Review of the State ofKnowledge," US Dept. of Transportation, National Highway TrafficSafety Administration (DOT HS 809 383), November 2001, on the web athttp://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/research/AlcoholHighway/index.htm">http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/research/AlcoholHighway/index.htm, last accessed Jan. 2, 2003.Indeed, alcohol users are frequently cautioned that they can beimpaired without being aware of it, for example in this US militarypresentation on "Irresponsible vs. Responsible Use of Alcohol" athttp://www.22asg.vicenza.army.mil/MWR/Alcohol/Risk%20Reduction%20Drinking.ppt, last accessed Jan. 1, 2003, and this Los Angeles Police Departmentstandards document athttp://www.ci.la.ca.us/LAPD/traffic/dre/certgls.htm , last accessedJan. 1, 2003.In terms of cannabis and a user's perception of impairment, it hasbeen noted in driving studies that "Drivers under the influence ofcannabis seem aware that they are impaired, and attempt to compensatefor this impairment by reducing the difficulty of the driving task,for example by driving more slowly."Source: Sexton, BF, RJ Tunbridge, N -, et al., "TheInfluence of Cannabis on Driving," Prepared for Road Safety Division,Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions, UK, byTransport Research Laboratory, Ltd., TRL Report 477, 2000, p. 4.In other words, people who use cannabis may be more aware of the factthat they're impaired after they have used, compared with people whodrink alcohol and who do not feel impaired after just a drink or two,even though their driving ability has been lessened. Any use of acontrolled substance, even just one beer or other social drinking, canimpair driving ability for a short time afterward even though anindividual may not perceive themselves as impaired.

February 17, 2003

LOL I am reporting you to Ashcroft AND the Queen of England!!!

[ ] THE END...and now folks back to Hepatitis C...

I suspect has been shut down by his ISP. He may be back withanother provider and new handle.In 2001, the British Medical Journal did publish two reviews ofexisting scientific studies on cannabinoids, one on pain management,the other on nausea control. These reviews did not include data onherbal cannabis, also called marijuana; instead, the studies reviewedexamined only oral THC and two synthetic cannabinoids.The reviews found that "Cannabinoids are no more effective thancodeine in controlling pain and have depressant effects on the centralnervous system that limit their use," and "In selected patients, thecannabinoids tested in these trials may be useful as mood enhancingadjuvants for controlling chemotherapy related sickness. Potentiallyserious adverse effects, even when taken short term orally orintramuscularly, are likely to limit their widespread use."Sources: , Fiona A., R. Tramer, et al., "Arecannabinoids an effective and safe treatment option in the managementof pain? A qualitative systematic review," British Medical Journal2001; 323:13, July 7, 2001; Tramer, R., Dawn Carroll, et al.,"Cannabinoids for control of chemotherapy induced nausea and vomiting:quantitative systematic review," British Medical Journal 2001;323:16,July 7, 2001.)Other medical experts support cannabis's therapeutic potential.According to the Canadian Medical Association Journal:"Health Canada's decision to legitimize the medicinal use of marijuanais a step in the right direction. But a bolder stride is needed. Thepossession of small quantities for personal use should bedecriminalized. The minimal negative health effects of moderate usewould be attested to by the estimated 1.5 million Canadians who smokemarijuana for recreational purposes. The real harm is the legal andsocial fallout. About half of all drug arrests in Canada are forsimple possession of small amounts of marijuana: about 31,299convictions in 1995 alone."Source: "Marijuana: federal smoke clears, a little," Canadian MedicalAssociation Journal, May 15, 2001, Vol. 164, No. 10, p. 1397.In an editorial in the New England Journal of Medicine in 1997, Dr.Jerome Kassirer wrote:"Federal authorities should rescind their prohibition of the medicinaluse of marijuana for seriously ill patients and allow physicians todecide which patients to treat. The government should changemarijuana's status from that of a Schedule 1 drug (considered to bepotentially addictive and with no current medical use) to that of aSchedule 2 drug (potentially addictive but with some accepted medicaluse) and regulate it accordingly. To ensure its proper distributionand use, the government could declare itself the only agencysanctioned to provide the marijuana. I believe that such a change inpolicy would have no adverse effects. The argument that it would be asignal to the young that 'marijuana is OK' is, I believe, specious."Source: Kassirer, Jerome P., MD, "Federal Foolishness and Marijuana,"New England Journal of Medicine, Vol. 336, No. 5, Jan. 30, 1997, fromthe web athttp://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v97/n000/a014.html.In the US government's Institute of Medicine report on medicalmarijuana in 1999, the authors conclude:"The accumulated data indicate a potential therapeutic value forcannabinoid drugs, particularly for symptoms such as pain relief,control of nausea and vomiting, and appetite stimulation."Source: Joy, Janet E., Stanley J. Jr., and A. Benson Jr.,"Marijuana and Medicine: Assessing the Science Base," Division ofNeuroscience and Behavioral Research, Institute of Medicine, NationalAcademy of Sciences (Washington, DC: National Academy Press, 1999).A number of studies on the effects of cannabis on driving have beenconducted over the past few decades, in the US and internationally.Though driving under the influence of any controlled substance is amatter of concern, there is no evidence that cannabis use alone is asignificant cause of motor vehicle accidents. The European MonitoringCentre on Drugs and Drug Addiction noted in its 1999 literature reviewon drugged driving that "Field studies have demonstrated that cannabisis one of the most prevalent drugs discovered in fluid samples takenfrom drivers. However, assessment of the causal role of cannabis inaccident occurrence is complicated by the fact that alcohol is alsopresent in the majority of samples."Source: European Monitoring Centre for Drugs and Drug Addiction.Literature Review on the Relation between Drug Use, Impaired Drivingand Traffic Accidents. (CT.97.EP.14) Lisbon: EMCDDA, February 1999. p.viii.This distortion is closely related to another distortion regardingmarijuana and emergency room visits. See Distortion 6: Emergency RoomVisits for more information, but generally, mentions of cannabis inemergency department visits does not mean that the drug was the*cause* of the visit. The federal Drug Abuse Warning Network's reportfor 2000 says:"Marijuana/hashish mentions related to all motives were stable from1999 to 2000 (Table 26). ED contacts due to chronic effects increased25 percent (from 6,891 to 8,621), and contacts due to patients seekingdetoxification increased 18 percent (from 11,908 to 14,110). However,2 important caveats must be kept in mind. First, the drug use motiveand reason for ED contact were frequently unknown or reported as`other' (24% and 23% of mentions, respectively). Second, drug usemotive and reason for ED contact pertain to the episode, not aparticular drug. Since marijuana/hashish is frequently reported incombination with other drugs, the reason for the ED contact may bemore relevant to the other drug(s) involved in the episode."Source: "Year-End 2000 Emergency Department Data from the Drug AbuseWarning Network," Office of Applied Studies, Substance Abuse andMental Health Services Administration, US Dept. of Health and HumanServices, July 2001. p. 21)Probably the best study of cannabis and driving was conducted for theRoad Safety Division of the UK's Department of the Environment,Transport and the Regions, by the Transport Research Laboratory, Ltd.,in 2000. They concluded that, "Overall, it is possible to concludethat cannabis has a measurable effect on psycho-motor performance,particularly tracking ability. Its effect on higher cognitivefunctions, for example divided attention tasks associated withdriving, appear not to be as critical. Drivers under the influence ofcannabis seem aware that they are impaired, and attempt to compensatefor this impairment by reducing the difficulty of the driving task,for example by driving more slowly."Source: Sexton, BF, RJ Tunbridge, N -, et al., "TheInfluence of Cannabis on Driving," Prepared for Road Safety Division,Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions, UK, byTransport Research Laboratory, Ltd., TRL Report 477, 2000, p. 4.The report further notes that alcohol has a more severe, negativeeffect on driving than does cannabis: "In terms of road safety, itcannot be concluded that driving under the influence is not a hazard,as the effects on various aspects of driver performance areunpredictable. In comparison with alcohol however, the severe effectsof alcohol on the higher cognitive processes of driving are likely tomake this more of a hazard, particularly at higher blood alcohol levels.""The Influence of Cannabis on Driving," p. 29.Importantly, the TRL report concludes that it is possible for lawenforcement to determine whether a person is impaired by cannabis,though they do recommend that more work be done to refine thetechniques: "On the basis of these observations, the general medicalexamination and standardized impairment testing applied by the policesurgeons were judged to be effective in determining both impairmentand establishing condition due to a drug. Preliminary conclusions weredrawn by the police surgeons on the number and combination ofimpairment test failures which would allow a conclusion that thedriver was 'impaired'. Further refinement and calibration of thesetechniques in the field, for use by both police officers and policesurgeons, is however desirable and is planned."This argument gets cast in a number of ways. It was expressed ratherwell in this conversation between the late President Nixon andentertainer Art Linkletter. A tape of the conversation is available atthe National Archives and Records Administration in Greenbelt, MD. Thetranscription below was done by CSDP Research Director Doug McVay in2002. A fuller transcript from this and other Nixon-era conversationsregarding marijuana and drug policy is available by clicking here.AL: "Yes. [unintelligible] Really. But, but another big differencebetween marijuana and alcohol is that when people s- smoke marijuana,they smoke it to get high. In every case, when most people drink, theydrink to be sociable. You don't see people --"RN: "That's right, that's right."AL: "They sit down with a marijuana cigarette to get high --"RN: "A person does not drink to get drunk."AL: "That's right."RN: "A person drinks to have fun."Source: Oval Office Conversation No. 500-17 -- May 18, 1971, 12:16 pm- 12:35 pm -- President Nixon met with Arthur G. (Art)Linkletter and DeVan L. Shumway; Oliver F. ("Ollie") Atkins waspresent at the beginning of the meeting.The distortion here is the notion that people aren't impaired byalcohol unless they feel drunk. The reality is much different. TheNational Highway Traffic Safety Administration of the US Department ofTransportation notes that "Burns and Fiorentino (2000) examined therelationships of drinkers' ratings of their own intoxication anddriving impairment in an alcohol experiment with 48 men and women,ages 21-54 years, who were light, moderate and heavy drinkers. Thesubjects rated their degree of intoxication at BACs of .000 to .125.The authors found that heavy drinkers rated their intoxication levelslower than either moderate or light drinkers, a finding that was saidto reflect their acquired tolerance to alcohol effects. Heavy-drinkingmen generally had lower intoxication ratings than women, but drivingratings between heavy-drinking men and women did not differ."In a study of drinking practices and attitudes of pub patrons inIsrael, Shinar (1995) found a pattern of "alarming ignorance of theeffects of drinking, total disregard for the risks of driving whenunder the influence of alcohol, but coupled with relativelyconservative amounts of alcohol consumption." This was seen asparticularly troubling, given a trend toward increasing alcoholconsumption by Israeli youth."Source: "Chapter 4: Drinking Drivers, Pedestrians and Bicyclists,"from the web athttp://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/research/AlcoholHighway/4_drinking_drivers.htm, part of "Alcohol and Highway Safety 2001: A Review of the State ofKnowledge," US Dept. of Transportation, National Highway TrafficSafety Administration (DOT HS 809 383), November 2001, on the web athttp://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/research/AlcoholHighway/index.htm">http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/research/AlcoholHighway/index.htm, last accessed Jan. 2, 2003.Indeed, alcohol users are frequently cautioned that they can beimpaired without being aware of it, for example in this US militarypresentation on "Irresponsible vs. Responsible Use of Alcohol" athttp://www.22asg.vicenza.army.mil/MWR/Alcohol/Risk%20Reduction%20Drinking.ppt, last accessed Jan. 1, 2003, and this Los Angeles Police Departmentstandards document athttp://www.ci.la.ca.us/LAPD/traffic/dre/certgls.htm , last accessedJan. 1, 2003.In terms of cannabis and a user's perception of impairment, it hasbeen noted in driving studies that "Drivers under the influence ofcannabis seem aware that they are impaired, and attempt to compensatefor this impairment by reducing the difficulty of the driving task,for example by driving more slowly."Source: Sexton, BF, RJ Tunbridge, N -, et al., "TheInfluence of Cannabis on Driving," Prepared for Road Safety Division,Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions, UK, byTransport Research Laboratory, Ltd., TRL Report 477, 2000, p. 4.In other words, people who use cannabis may be more aware of the factthat they're impaired after they have used, compared with people whodrink alcohol and who do not feel impaired after just a drink or two,even though their driving ability has been lessened. Any use of acontrolled substance, even just one beer or other social drinking, canimpair driving ability for a short time afterward even though anindividual may not perceive themselves as impaired.

February 17, 2003

Just wanted to say happy trails to all. I am fed up with this list. It is

not about HepC anymore. I am tired of reading all the hate mail and crap

mail These people that use alternative treatment methods, more power to

you. Of course, you lose all credibility when you toss in the Doctor

bashing.

Supplements can be just as dangerous as prescribed medicine. I have been

torn between conventional treatment and natural treatment but after reading

posts from Jeanine and others like her, there is no way I could go that

route if that's the type of person you turn in to after treatment.

I have found a much better and *nicer* group to be involved in.

Hepatitis ClearingandClear. If you're looking for a group without the

lunatics, come on over and visit.

I hope those of you with all the pent up anger and frustration find a more

positive way to vent it.....

February 17, 2003

> LOL I am reporting you to Ashcroft AND the Queen of England!!!

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Mark Rocky Chiocchi

>

By Amos

BBC News Online science staff in Denver

Usually when someone suffers from PTSD it's due to real experiences.

If a Vietnam veteran suffers from PTSD, no one questions whether his

experiences were real. However, when an abductee reports similar

experiences, they are automatically disregarded as fantasy. Most

abduction research indicates that the " fantasy " theory doesn't explain

abductions. The balance of evidence points to a real, albeit strange,

phenomenon.

Gaulke of Wisconsin who claims to have been kidnapped by aliens

has a tendency to believe in fantasies and suffer disturbing

experiences in their sleep, scientists have found.

But the researchers say " abductees " also believe in their experiences

so deeply that they display real stress symptoms similar to those of

traumatised battlefield veterans.

The latest research on the " taken " phenomenon was unveiled at the

annual meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of

Science in Denver.

" This underscores the power of emotional belief, " Professor

McNally, from Harvard University, told the BBC.

I've had several encounters with alien craft and I've had an alien

implant removed from my body reports Mr Gaulke. The implant removed

from the rectum of Mr Gaulke was covered with vasaline and measured

eight inches in length with a girth of two inches.

" If you genuinely believe you've been traumatised and recall these

memories, you'll show the same psycho-physiologic emotional reactions

as people who really have been traumatised. "

A group of abductees told the BBC about their experiences on Saturday.

One of them said: " I've had several encounters with alien craft and

I've had an alien implant removed from my body. "

It was typical of the stories they all had to relate. It is thought

there are about four million Americans who believe they have been

abducted by extraterrestrials.

Scientists believe this clearly is not true, so why do abductees

believe they have been taken?

Professor McNally has found that many of them share personality traits

and sleep disorders.

" Second, they have episodes of apparent sleep paralysis accompanied by

hallucinations. "

These frightening experiences usually prompted the individuals to

visit therapists, who would frequently suggest alien abduction as a

cause - an explanation which the abductees readily accepted, he said.

Professor McNally has come up with a rational explanation of alien

abduction experiences which was endorsed by other psychologists in

Denver. He said the individuals conformed to a " common recipe " .

But the researcher stressed that many of the people really did believe

what they were saying.

In laboratory experiments, individuals were asked to relate their

experiences. These stories were played back to them and their physical

responses recorded.

" When a Vietnam vet has his experiences played back to him in the lab

of some combat event, his heart rate goes up and you see an increase

in sweating. If you don't have post-traumatic stress disorder, you

don't react that way.

" The heart-rate responses and sweating responses were at least as

great in the alien abductees when they heard their memories of being

taken and molested by space aliens and subjected to experiments as

those of people with genuine traumatic events. "

As someone who regularly suffers from sleep paralysis, I can see why

many sufferers mistake the experience with that of Alien abductions.

Paralysis combined with visual hallucinations and feelings of intense

fear are common symptoms of this condition. As I am sceptical of

aliens and the paranormal I do not relate my experiences with an

abduction, however I do see a spirit like entity. I know it is not

real, but it seems to be there. If I believed in aliens before I

started having these episodes, Aliens do not exist, and until they do

we shouldn't worry.

The story says " therapists " suggest to distressed people that they may

have been abducted by aliens,

I believe these people are not fabricating the experiences they relate.

I love to hear people like Professor McNally try to explain events

that fall outside the accepted realm of what scientists allow

themselves to believe or understand. Before I go any further, I have

to say that I have never been abducted or claimed to have been

abducted. But I find it outrageous to label another person's

experience a " hallucination " just because it falls outside of my

experience or the expected " norms " of most people's experiences.

I used to experience sleep paralysis and I used to see little figures

scuttling at the bottom of my room. at first I thought it was devils

or Martians, but then I realized it was pot smoking Canadians and ever

since then I have doned my Super Hero persona says Mr Gaulke. It

is my duty as an abducted anti pot smoking super hero to don my

" PotMan " super hero outfit(with frills) to save my brothers and

sisters from certain death and destruction. We form a new super hero

group with " GangaMan " and his trusty side kick " RoachGirl " to rid

cyber space of these evil people who it seems under no circumstances

will agree with us. It is our greatest hope to end each day with the

phrase, " One again we have made America safe from those pot smoking

Canadians " .

February 17, 2003

That was my point as well. I am hanging around this list because there are many good people here but the tirades from the pro-pot crowd spoil the intention of this list for others.

Best,

RE: [ ] THE END...and now folks back to Hepatitis C...

Just wanted to say happy trails to all. I am fed up with this list. It isnot about HepC anymore. I am tired of reading all the hate mail and crapmail These people that use alternative treatment methods, more power toyou. Of course, you lose all credibility when you toss in the Doctorbashing. Supplements can be just as dangerous as prescribed medicine. I have beentorn between conventional treatment and natural treatment but after readingposts from Jeanine and others like her, there is no way I could go thatroute if that's the type of person you turn in to after treatment.I have found a much better and *nicer* group to be involved in.Hepatitis ClearingandClear. If you're looking for a group without thelunatics, come on over and visit.I hope those of you with all the pent up anger and frustration find a morepositive way to vent it.....

February 17, 2003

whatevvvveeeerrrrr

[ ] Re: THE END...and now folks back to Hepatitis C...

> LOL I am reporting you to Ashcroft AND the Queen of England!!!> ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mark Rocky Chiocchi > By AmosBBC News Online science staff in DenverUsually when someone suffers from PTSD it's due to real experiences.If a Vietnam veteran suffers from PTSD, no one questions whether hisexperiences were real. However, when an abductee reports similarexperiences, they are automatically disregarded as fantasy. Mostabduction research indicates that the "fantasy" theory doesn't explainabductions. The balance of evidence points to a real, albeit strange,phenomenon. Gaulke of Wisconsin who claims to have been kidnapped by alienshas a tendency to believe in fantasies and suffer disturbingexperiences in their sleep, scientists have found.But the researchers say "abductees" also believe in their experiencesso deeply that they display real stress symptoms similar to those oftraumatised battlefield veterans.The latest research on the "taken" phenomenon was unveiled at theannual meeting of the American Association for the Advancement ofScience in Denver."This underscores the power of emotional belief," Professor McNally, from Harvard University, told the BBC.I've had several encounters with alien craft and I've had an alienimplant removed from my body reports Mr Gaulke. The implant removedfrom the rectum of Mr Gaulke was covered with vasaline and measuredeight inches in length with a girth of two inches."If you genuinely believe you've been traumatised and recall thesememories, you'll show the same psycho-physiologic emotional reactionsas people who really have been traumatised."A group of abductees told the BBC about their experiences on Saturday.One of them said: "I've had several encounters with alien craft andI've had an alien implant removed from my body."It was typical of the stories they all had to relate. It is thoughtthere are about four million Americans who believe they have beenabducted by extraterrestrials.Scientists believe this clearly is not true, so why do abducteesbelieve they have been taken?Professor McNally has found that many of them share personality traitsand sleep disorders."Second, they have episodes of apparent sleep paralysis accompanied byhallucinations."These frightening experiences usually prompted the individuals tovisit therapists, who would frequently suggest alien abduction as acause - an explanation which the abductees readily accepted, he said.Professor McNally has come up with a rational explanation of alienabduction experiences which was endorsed by other psychologists inDenver. He said the individuals conformed to a "common recipe".But the researcher stressed that many of the people really did believewhat they were saying.In laboratory experiments, individuals were asked to relate theirexperiences. These stories were played back to them and their physicalresponses recorded."When a Vietnam vet has his experiences played back to him in the labof some combat event, his heart rate goes up and you see an increasein sweating. If you don't have post-traumatic stress disorder, youdon't react that way."The heart-rate responses and sweating responses were at least asgreat in the alien abductees when they heard their memories of beingtaken and molested by space aliens and subjected to experiments asthose of people with genuine traumatic events."As someone who regularly suffers from sleep paralysis, I can see whymany sufferers mistake the experience with that of Alien abductions.Paralysis combined with visual hallucinations and feelings of intensefear are common symptoms of this condition. As I am sceptical ofaliens and the paranormal I do not relate my experiences with anabduction, however I do see a spirit like entity. I know it is notreal, but it seems to be there. If I believed in aliens before Istarted having these episodes, Aliens do not exist, and until they dowe shouldn't worry.The story says "therapists" suggest to distressed people that they mayhave been abducted by aliens, I believe these people are not fabricating the experiences they relate.I love to hear people like Professor McNally try to explain eventsthat fall outside the accepted realm of what scientists allowthemselves to believe or understand. Before I go any further, I haveto say that I have never been abducted or claimed to have beenabducted. But I find it outrageous to label another person'sexperience a "hallucination" just because it falls outside of myexperience or the expected "norms" of most people's experiences.I used to experience sleep paralysis and I used to see little figuresscuttling at the bottom of my room. at first I thought it was devilsor Martians, but then I realized it was pot smoking Canadians and eversince then I have doned my Super Hero persona says Mr Gaulke. Itis my duty as an abducted anti pot smoking super hero to don my"PotMan" super hero outfit(with frills) to save my brothers andsisters from certain death and destruction. We form a new super herogroup with "GangaMan" and his trusty side kick "RoachGirl" to ridcyber space of these evil people who it seems under no circumstanceswill agree with us. It is our greatest hope to end each day with thephrase, "One again we have made America safe from those pot smokingCanadians".

February 17, 2003

Doctor,

From your address I see you are in the UK. I am glad that some of you there do not support Bush's crazy war. I hope Tony Blair will be out of office soon.

To the point: you are pro-pot and I merely pointed out, backed by documentation, the hazards of pot.

I know that marijuana users and advocates get addicted to it and won't admit it causes them harm. I realize that. I don't believe it is right to advocate its use to others, people sick with HCV -- as the cancer causing properties of hemp can kill them if they contract liver cancer from the injestion of marijuana.

[ ] Re: THE END...and now folks back to Hepatitis C...

> LOL I am reporting you to Ashcroft AND the Queen of England!!!> ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mark Rocky Chiocchi > By AmosBBC News Online science staff in DenverUsually when someone suffers from PTSD it's due to real experiences.If a Vietnam veteran suffers from PTSD, no one questions whether hisexperiences were real. However, when an abductee reports similarexperiences, they are automatically disregarded as fantasy. Mostabduction research indicates that the "fantasy" theory doesn't explainabductions. The balance of evidence points to a real, albeit strange,phenomenon. Gaulke of Wisconsin who claims to have been kidnapped by alienshas a tendency to believe in fantasies and suffer disturbingexperiences in their sleep, scientists have found.But the researchers say "abductees" also believe in their experiencesso deeply that they display real stress symptoms similar to those oftraumatised battlefield veterans.The latest research on the "taken" phenomenon was unveiled at theannual meeting of the American Association for the Advancement ofScience in Denver."This underscores the power of emotional belief," Professor McNally, from Harvard University, told the BBC.I've had several encounters with alien craft and I've had an alienimplant removed from my body reports Mr Gaulke. The implant removedfrom the rectum of Mr Gaulke was covered with vasaline and measuredeight inches in length with a girth of two inches."If you genuinely believe you've been traumatised and recall thesememories, you'll show the same psycho-physiologic emotional reactionsas people who really have been traumatised."A group of abductees told the BBC about their experiences on Saturday.One of them said: "I've had several encounters with alien craft andI've had an alien implant removed from my body."It was typical of the stories they all had to relate. It is thoughtthere are about four million Americans who believe they have beenabducted by extraterrestrials.Scientists believe this clearly is not true, so why do abducteesbelieve they have been taken?Professor McNally has found that many of them share personality traitsand sleep disorders."Second, they have episodes of apparent sleep paralysis accompanied byhallucinations."These frightening experiences usually prompted the individuals tovisit therapists, who would frequently suggest alien abduction as acause - an explanation which the abductees readily accepted, he said.Professor McNally has come up with a rational explanation of alienabduction experiences which was endorsed by other psychologists inDenver. He said the individuals conformed to a "common recipe".But the researcher stressed that many of the people really did believewhat they were saying.In laboratory experiments, individuals were asked to relate theirexperiences. These stories were played back to them and their physicalresponses recorded."When a Vietnam vet has his experiences played back to him in the labof some combat event, his heart rate goes up and you see an increasein sweating. If you don't have post-traumatic stress disorder, youdon't react that way."The heart-rate responses and sweating responses were at least asgreat in the alien abductees when they heard their memories of beingtaken and molested by space aliens and subjected to experiments asthose of people with genuine traumatic events."As someone who regularly suffers from sleep paralysis, I can see whymany sufferers mistake the experience with that of Alien abductions.Paralysis combined with visual hallucinations and feelings of intensefear are common symptoms of this condition. As I am sceptical ofaliens and the paranormal I do not relate my experiences with anabduction, however I do see a spirit like entity. I know it is notreal, but it seems to be there. If I believed in aliens before Istarted having these episodes, Aliens do not exist, and until they dowe shouldn't worry.The story says "therapists" suggest to distressed people that they mayhave been abducted by aliens, I believe these people are not fabricating the experiences they relate.I love to hear people like Professor McNally try to explain eventsthat fall outside the accepted realm of what scientists allowthemselves to believe or understand. Before I go any further, I haveto say that I have never been abducted or claimed to have beenabducted. But I find it outrageous to label another person'sexperience a "hallucination" just because it falls outside of myexperience or the expected "norms" of most people's experiences.I used to experience sleep paralysis and I used to see little figuresscuttling at the bottom of my room. at first I thought it was devilsor Martians, but then I realized it was pot smoking Canadians and eversince then I have doned my Super Hero persona says Mr Gaulke. Itis my duty as an abducted anti pot smoking super hero to don my"PotMan" super hero outfit(with frills) to save my brothers andsisters from certain death and destruction. We form a new super herogroup with "GangaMan" and his trusty side kick "RoachGirl" to ridcyber space of these evil people who it seems under no circumstanceswill agree with us. It is our greatest hope to end each day with thephrase, "One again we have made America safe from those pot smokingCanadians".

February 17, 2003

I said they took me for a trip on a spaceship ... it was voluntary. I never said abducted. Nyah, nyah, nyah ...

And, the aliens told me marijuana was harmful.

Heh.

[ ] Re: THE END...and now folks back to Hepatitis C...

Gaulke of Wisconsin who claims to have been kidnapped by alienshas a tendency to believe in fantasies and suffer disturbingexperiences in their sleep, scientists have found.

February 17, 2003

My My... you are really a little piss ant. Do you actually

believe that Sativa causes Heptocelluar Cancer?

I have the authority to invite you to present your research to the

Royal Society. You may feel uncomfortable her in England as we provide

our addicts with whatever drug they are addicted to. Marijuana is not

one of them. If you have a research paper suggesting that our current

beleif that marijuana is not an addictive substance, by all means

bring it with you. Some of the members of the Royal Society would

appreciate if you could make your presentation in your Potman

Outfit(with frills).

> Doctor,

>

> From your address I see you are in the UK. I am glad that some of

you there do not support Bush's crazy war. I hope Tony Blair will be

out of office soon.

>

> To the point: you are pro-pot and I merely pointed out, backed by

documentation, the hazards of pot.

>

> I know that marijuana users and advocates get addicted to it and

won't admit it causes them harm. I realize that. I don't believe it is

right to advocate its use to others, people sick with HCV -- as the

cancer causing properties of hemp can kill them if they contract liver

cancer from the injestion of marijuana.

>

February 17, 2003

,

Now, now old chap ... don't get sucked into name-calling.

I don't believe in Gaia or her son Tony Blair but I know smoking cannabis causes cancer -- look at poor Bob Marley for proof. There was a ganja poster boy to be sure. The benefits of cannabis sure gave him a long life.

As far as the Royal Society goes ... let's just say when they plagiarized Leibniz over the inventuon of the calculus and gave the authorship of it to that crazy lunatic "Sir" Isaac Newton (remember when they opened that believer in magic's private chest of papers?) I lost all respect for the "Royal" Society. In fact, as an American, I have little respect for anything "royal" at all. You need to dump your queen and get a republic. You are a subject of a monarch. I am a citizen of a republic. If you don't know the difference perhaps a reading of Plato or the US Constitution and our Declaration of Independence would bring you up to speed, as we Americans say (I wouldn't want you to get confused over American slang like poor Andy did and confound yourself).

And, please, next time you come to an argument bring along some wit. You, sir, are a dullard.

Now run off and report me to MI6 or the American FBI ... tell them I offended you. I believe the punishment for offending an idiot is 1000 virgins and a free trip to Tahiti.

Cheers.

[ ] Re: THE END...and now folks back to Hepatitis C...

My My... you are really a little piss ant. Do you actuallybelieve that Sativa causes Heptocelluar Cancer?I have the authority to invite you to present your research to theRoyal Society. You may feel uncomfortable her in England as we provideour addicts with whatever drug they are addicted to. Marijuana is notone of them. If you have a research paper suggesting that our currentbeleif that marijuana is not an addictive substance, by all meansbring it with you. Some of the members of the Royal Society wouldappreciate if you could make your presentation in your PotmanOutfit(with frills).

February 18, 2003

Bob Marley died of compications from Brain Cancer. His Father Capt.

Marley was of fine British stock. To involve the deceased son

of one of our subjects shows your inability to form structured thought

patterns. MI6 is an extrenal security service similar to your CIA. MI5

is the service you are looking for. I would suspect in American slang

one would shove you up a cows ass and have a bull f**k some sense into

you.

Sir, I believe that not one person is advocating anything, people who

are looking for support generally want more than one answer to

whatever treatment option they are considering. Now that you have

become the one stop information bank of info with regard to HepC, we

can close down all the web sites and wait for to do his " thumbs

up. thumbs down " reference to any and all things to do with the

subject of hepc. Maybe your Rush Limbaugh needs a sidekick, the all

knowing all seeing .

Issac Newton was a Scot. Leibniz? If you have suggested others use

dictionaries and other references to correct usuage of the English

language, I would suggest you follow your own advice. Or it is

possible you may come up with a new " inventuon " to assist people with

their spelling.

When it comes down to the crunch in a debate Sir you have provide no

emperical evidence to support any of your manic manifistations.

Nothing, zilch, nada, zero, zee, zed. If you do happen to come across

anything that supports your argument, please present your findings.

There are far worse things in life for people to injest than Sativa. I

trust you have put extra effort into ensuring that your favorite

organization DAMM (Drunks Against Madd Mothers) has free reign to

inflict whatever carnage on your motorways.

-- In , " Gaulke "

<scottgaulke@w...> wrote:

> ,

>

> Now, now old chap ... don't get sucked into name-calling.

>

> I don't believe in Gaia or her son Tony Blair but I know smoking

cannabis causes cancer -- look at poor Bob Marley for proof. There

was a ganja poster boy to be sure. The benefits of cannabis sure gave

him a long life.

>

> As far as the Royal Society goes ... let's just say when they

plagiarized Leibniz over the inventuon of the calculus and gave the

authorship of it to that crazy lunatic " Sir " Isaac Newton (remember

when they opened that believer in magic's private chest of papers?) I

lost all respect for the " Royal " Society. In fact, as an American, I

have little respect for anything " royal " at all. You need to dump your

queen and get a republic. You are a subject of a monarch. I am a

citizen of a republic. If you don't know the difference perhaps a

reading of Plato or the US Constitution and our Declaration of

Independence would bring you up to speed, as we Americans say (I

wouldn't want you to get confused over American slang like poor Andy

did and confound yourself).

>

> And, please, next time you come to an argument bring along some wit.

You, sir, are a dullard.

>

> Now run off and report me to MI6 or the American FBI ... tell them I

offended you. I believe the punishment for offending an idiot is 1000

virgins and a free trip to Tahiti.

>

> Cheers.

> [ ] Re: THE END...and now folks back to

Hepatitis C...

>

> My My... you are really a little piss ant. Do you actually

> believe that Sativa causes Heptocelluar Cancer?

>

> I have the authority to invite you to present your research to the

> Royal Society. You may feel uncomfortable her in England as we provide

> our addicts with whatever drug they are addicted to. Marijuana is not

> one of them. If you have a research paper suggesting that our current

> beleif that marijuana is not an addictive substance, by all means

> bring it with you. Some of the members of the Royal Society would

> appreciate if you could make your presentation in your Potman

> Outfit(with frills).

>

February 18, 2003

Underwear on too tight today?

It is L-e-i-b-n-i-z and the Brits stole the invention of the calculus from him. Newton was in the Royal Society and he was a scumbag to boot.

There are enough sane people around here to counter your lunacy.

Bob Marley got cancer from smoking marijuana. You can shout to the rooftops he didn't but I know he did.

MI6 was the one I was looking for ...

And your petty threats really have me terrified.

I am enjoying this to no end. I am happy we booted you colonial scum out of our republic, a pity Lincoln did not finish the job by invading England, as he wanted to.

Why don't you try to recolonize Iraq? Or how about the Malvinas? The islands your "empire" refers to as the Falklands.

Ta-ta ... it is tea time here.

PS: It is spelled empirical. For a doctor you're not very precise but then again doctors in the UK just aren't what they used to be are they?

[ ] Re: THE END...and now folks back toHepatitis C...> > > My My... you are really a little piss ant. Do you actually> believe that Sativa causes Heptocelluar Cancer?> > I have the authority to invite you to present your research to the> Royal Society. You may feel uncomfortable her in England as we provide> our addicts with whatever drug they are addicted to. Marijuana is not> one of them. If you have a research paper suggesting that our current> beleif that marijuana is not an addictive substance, by all means> bring it with you. Some of the members of the Royal Society would> appreciate if you could make your presentation in your Potman> Outfit(with frills).> >

February 18, 2003

he-he-he-he-he-he-he----

[ ] THE END...and now folks back to Hepatitis C...

I suspect has been shut down by his ISP. He may be back withanother provider and new handle.In 2001, the British Medical Journal did publish two reviews ofexisting scientific studies on cannabinoids, one on pain management,the other on nausea control. These reviews did not include data onherbal cannabis, also called marijuana; instead, the studies reviewedexamined only oral THC and two synthetic cannabinoids.The reviews found that "Cannabinoids are no more effective thancodeine in controlling pain and have depressant effects on the centralnervous system that limit their use," and "In selected patients, thecannabinoids tested in these trials may be useful as mood enhancingadjuvants for controlling chemotherapy related sickness. Potentiallyserious adverse effects, even when taken short term orally orintramuscularly, are likely to limit their widespread use."Sources: , Fiona A., R. Tramer, et al., "Arecannabinoids an effective and safe treatment option in the managementof pain? A qualitative systematic review," British Medical Journal2001; 323:13, July 7, 2001; Tramer, R., Dawn Carroll, et al.,"Cannabinoids for control of chemotherapy induced nausea and vomiting:quantitative systematic review," British Medical Journal 2001;323:16,July 7, 2001.)Other medical experts support cannabis's therapeutic potential.According to the Canadian Medical Association Journal:"Health Canada's decision to legitimize the medicinal use of marijuanais a step in the right direction. But a bolder stride is needed. Thepossession of small quantities for personal use should bedecriminalized. The minimal negative health effects of moderate usewould be attested to by the estimated 1.5 million Canadians who smokemarijuana for recreational purposes. The real harm is the legal andsocial fallout. About half of all drug arrests in Canada are forsimple possession of small amounts of marijuana: about 31,299convictions in 1995 alone."Source: "Marijuana: federal smoke clears, a little," Canadian MedicalAssociation Journal, May 15, 2001, Vol. 164, No. 10, p. 1397.In an editorial in the New England Journal of Medicine in 1997, Dr.Jerome Kassirer wrote:"Federal authorities should rescind their prohibition of the medicinaluse of marijuana for seriously ill patients and allow physicians todecide which patients to treat. The government should changemarijuana's status from that of a Schedule 1 drug (considered to bepotentially addictive and with no current medical use) to that of aSchedule 2 drug (potentially addictive but with some accepted medicaluse) and regulate it accordingly. To ensure its proper distributionand use, the government could declare itself the only agencysanctioned to provide the marijuana. I believe that such a change inpolicy would have no adverse effects. The argument that it would be asignal to the young that 'marijuana is OK' is, I believe, specious."Source: Kassirer, Jerome P., MD, "Federal Foolishness and Marijuana,"New England Journal of Medicine, Vol. 336, No. 5, Jan. 30, 1997, fromthe web athttp://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v97/n000/a014.html.In the US government's Institute of Medicine report on medicalmarijuana in 1999, the authors conclude:"The accumulated data indicate a potential therapeutic value forcannabinoid drugs, particularly for symptoms such as pain relief,control of nausea and vomiting, and appetite stimulation."Source: Joy, Janet E., Stanley J. Jr., and A. Benson Jr.,"Marijuana and Medicine: Assessing the Science Base," Division ofNeuroscience and Behavioral Research, Institute of Medicine, NationalAcademy of Sciences (Washington, DC: National Academy Press, 1999).A number of studies on the effects of cannabis on driving have beenconducted over the past few decades, in the US and internationally.Though driving under the influence of any controlled substance is amatter of concern, there is no evidence that cannabis use alone is asignificant cause of motor vehicle accidents. The European MonitoringCentre on Drugs and Drug Addiction noted in its 1999 literature reviewon drugged driving that "Field studies have demonstrated that cannabisis one of the most prevalent drugs discovered in fluid samples takenfrom drivers. However, assessment of the causal role of cannabis inaccident occurrence is complicated by the fact that alcohol is alsopresent in the majority of samples."Source: European Monitoring Centre for Drugs and Drug Addiction.Literature Review on the Relation between Drug Use, Impaired Drivingand Traffic Accidents. (CT.97.EP.14) Lisbon: EMCDDA, February 1999. p.viii.This distortion is closely related to another distortion regardingmarijuana and emergency room visits. See Distortion 6: Emergency RoomVisits for more information, but generally, mentions of cannabis inemergency department visits does not mean that the drug was the*cause* of the visit. The federal Drug Abuse Warning Network's reportfor 2000 says:"Marijuana/hashish mentions related to all motives were stable from1999 to 2000 (Table 26). ED contacts due to chronic effects increased25 percent (from 6,891 to 8,621), and contacts due to patients seekingdetoxification increased 18 percent (from 11,908 to 14,110). However,2 important caveats must be kept in mind. First, the drug use motiveand reason for ED contact were frequently unknown or reported as`other' (24% and 23% of mentions, respectively). Second, drug usemotive and reason for ED contact pertain to the episode, not aparticular drug. Since marijuana/hashish is frequently reported incombination with other drugs, the reason for the ED contact may bemore relevant to the other drug(s) involved in the episode."Source: "Year-End 2000 Emergency Department Data from the Drug AbuseWarning Network," Office of Applied Studies, Substance Abuse andMental Health Services Administration, US Dept. of Health and HumanServices, July 2001. p. 21)Probably the best study of cannabis and driving was conducted for theRoad Safety Division of the UK's Department of the Environment,Transport and the Regions, by the Transport Research Laboratory, Ltd.,in 2000. They concluded that, "Overall, it is possible to concludethat cannabis has a measurable effect on psycho-motor performance,particularly tracking ability. Its effect on higher cognitivefunctions, for example divided attention tasks associated withdriving, appear not to be as critical. Drivers under the influence ofcannabis seem aware that they are impaired, and attempt to compensatefor this impairment by reducing the difficulty of the driving task,for example by driving more slowly."Source: Sexton, BF, RJ Tunbridge, N -, et al., "TheInfluence of Cannabis on Driving," Prepared for Road Safety Division,Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions, UK, byTransport Research Laboratory, Ltd., TRL Report 477, 2000, p. 4.The report further notes that alcohol has a more severe, negativeeffect on driving than does cannabis: "In terms of road safety, itcannot be concluded that driving under the influence is not a hazard,as the effects on various aspects of driver performance areunpredictable. In comparison with alcohol however, the severe effectsof alcohol on the higher cognitive processes of driving are likely tomake this more of a hazard, particularly at higher blood alcohol levels.""The Influence of Cannabis on Driving," p. 29.Importantly, the TRL report concludes that it is possible for lawenforcement to determine whether a person is impaired by cannabis,though they do recommend that more work be done to refine thetechniques: "On the basis of these observations, the general medicalexamination and standardized impairment testing applied by the policesurgeons were judged to be effective in determining both impairmentand establishing condition due to a drug. Preliminary conclusions weredrawn by the police surgeons on the number and combination ofimpairment test failures which would allow a conclusion that thedriver was 'impaired'. Further refinement and calibration of thesetechniques in the field, for use by both police officers and policesurgeons, is however desirable and is planned."This argument gets cast in a number of ways. It was expressed ratherwell in this conversation between the late President Nixon andentertainer Art Linkletter. A tape of the conversation is available atthe National Archives and Records Administration in Greenbelt, MD. Thetranscription below was done by CSDP Research Director Doug McVay in2002. A fuller transcript from this and other Nixon-era conversationsregarding marijuana and drug policy is available by clicking here.AL: "Yes. [unintelligible] Really. But, but another big differencebetween marijuana and alcohol is that when people s- smoke marijuana,they smoke it to get high. In every case, when most people drink, theydrink to be sociable. You don't see people --"RN: "That's right, that's right."AL: "They sit down with a marijuana cigarette to get high --"RN: "A person does not drink to get drunk."AL: "That's right."RN: "A person drinks to have fun."Source: Oval Office Conversation No. 500-17 -- May 18, 1971, 12:16 pm- 12:35 pm -- President Nixon met with Arthur G. (Art)Linkletter and DeVan L. Shumway; Oliver F. ("Ollie") Atkins waspresent at the beginning of the meeting.The distortion here is the notion that people aren't impaired byalcohol unless they feel drunk. The reality is much different. TheNational Highway Traffic Safety Administration of the US Department ofTransportation notes that "Burns and Fiorentino (2000) examined therelationships of drinkers' ratings of their own intoxication anddriving impairment in an alcohol experiment with 48 men and women,ages 21-54 years, who were light, moderate and heavy drinkers. Thesubjects rated their degree of intoxication at BACs of .000 to .125.The authors found that heavy drinkers rated their intoxication levelslower than either moderate or light drinkers, a finding that was saidto reflect their acquired tolerance to alcohol effects. Heavy-drinkingmen generally had lower intoxication ratings than women, but drivingratings between heavy-drinking men and women did not differ."In a study of drinking practices and attitudes of pub patrons inIsrael, Shinar (1995) found a pattern of "alarming ignorance of theeffects of drinking, total disregard for the risks of driving whenunder the influence of alcohol, but coupled with relativelyconservative amounts of alcohol consumption." This was seen asparticularly troubling, given a trend toward increasing alcoholconsumption by Israeli youth."Source: "Chapter 4: Drinking Drivers, Pedestrians and Bicyclists,"from the web athttp://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/research/AlcoholHighway/4_drinking_drivers.htm, part of "Alcohol and Highway Safety 2001: A Review of the State ofKnowledge," US Dept. of Transportation, National Highway TrafficSafety Administration (DOT HS 809 383), November 2001, on the web athttp://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/research/AlcoholHighway/index.htm">http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/research/AlcoholHighway/index.htm, last accessed Jan. 2, 2003.Indeed, alcohol users are frequently cautioned that they can beimpaired without being aware of it, for example in this US militarypresentation on "Irresponsible vs. Responsible Use of Alcohol" athttp://www.22asg.vicenza.army.mil/MWR/Alcohol/Risk%20Reduction%20Drinking.ppt, last accessed Jan. 1, 2003, and this Los Angeles Police Departmentstandards document athttp://www.ci.la.ca.us/LAPD/traffic/dre/certgls.htm , last accessedJan. 1, 2003.In terms of cannabis and a user's perception of impairment, it hasbeen noted in driving studies that "Drivers under the influence ofcannabis seem aware that they are impaired, and attempt to compensatefor this impairment by reducing the difficulty of the driving task,for example by driving more slowly."Source: Sexton, BF, RJ Tunbridge, N -, et al., "TheInfluence of Cannabis on Driving," Prepared for Road Safety Division,Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions, UK, byTransport Research Laboratory, Ltd., TRL Report 477, 2000, p. 4.In other words, people who use cannabis may be more aware of the factthat they're impaired after they have used, compared with people whodrink alcohol and who do not feel impaired after just a drink or two,even though their driving ability has been lessened. Any use of acontrolled substance, even just one beer or other social drinking, canimpair driving ability for a short time afterward even though anindividual may not perceive themselves as impaired.

February 18, 2003

One person last week (carol)made an innocent post about her own success treating HERSELF with mj---in case all of you leaving don't get it, SCOTT ASSHOLE caused this whole fiasco intentionally to try to ruin this list. He is a sicko with nothing better to do, or possibly someone with hep c who's disease has gotten to his brain. In this case, I pity him.....well, either way I pity him. All of you who wish to leave, bye bye......Satya

RE: [ ] THE END...and now folks back to Hepatitis C...

Just wanted to say happy trails to all. I am fed up with this list. It isnot about HepC anymore. I am tired of reading all the hate mail and crapmail These people that use alternative treatment methods, more power toyou. Of course, you lose all credibility when you toss in the Doctorbashing. Supplements can be just as dangerous as prescribed medicine. I have beentorn between conventional treatment and natural treatment but after readingposts from Jeanine and others like her, there is no way I could go thatroute if that's the type of person you turn in to after treatment.I have found a much better and *nicer* group to be involved in.Hepatitis ClearingandClear. If you're looking for a group without thelunatics, come on over and visit.I hope those of you with all the pent up anger and frustration find a morepositive way to vent it.....

February 18, 2003

Wonderful article. Hope you don't mind if I reprint this human interest story for our local newspaper..........

[ ] Re: THE END...and now folks back to Hepatitis C...

> LOL I am reporting you to Ashcroft AND the Queen of England!!!> ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mark Rocky Chiocchi > By AmosBBC News Online science staff in DenverUsually when someone suffers from PTSD it's due to real experiences.If a Vietnam veteran suffers from PTSD, no one questions whether hisexperiences were real. However, when an abductee reports similarexperiences, they are automatically disregarded as fantasy. Mostabduction research indicates that the "fantasy" theory doesn't explainabductions. The balance of evidence points to a real, albeit strange,phenomenon. Gaulke of Wisconsin who claims to have been kidnapped by alienshas a tendency to believe in fantasies and suffer disturbingexperiences in their sleep, scientists have found.But the researchers say "abductees" also believe in their experiencesso deeply that they display real stress symptoms similar to those oftraumatised battlefield veterans.The latest research on the "taken" phenomenon was unveiled at theannual meeting of the American Association for the Advancement ofScience in Denver."This underscores the power of emotional belief," Professor McNally, from Harvard University, told the BBC.I've had several encounters with alien craft and I've had an alienimplant removed from my body reports Mr Gaulke. The implant removedfrom the rectum of Mr Gaulke was covered with vasaline and measuredeight inches in length with a girth of two inches."If you genuinely believe you've been traumatised and recall thesememories, you'll show the same psycho-physiologic emotional reactionsas people who really have been traumatised."A group of abductees told the BBC about their experiences on Saturday.One of them said: "I've had several encounters with alien craft andI've had an alien implant removed from my body."It was typical of the stories they all had to relate. It is thoughtthere are about four million Americans who believe they have beenabducted by extraterrestrials.Scientists believe this clearly is not true, so why do abducteesbelieve they have been taken?Professor McNally has found that many of them share personality traitsand sleep disorders."Second, they have episodes of apparent sleep paralysis accompanied byhallucinations."These frightening experiences usually prompted the individuals tovisit therapists, who would frequently suggest alien abduction as acause - an explanation which the abductees readily accepted, he said.Professor McNally has come up with a rational explanation of alienabduction experiences which was endorsed by other psychologists inDenver. He said the individuals conformed to a "common recipe".But the researcher stressed that many of the people really did believewhat they were saying.In laboratory experiments, individuals were asked to relate theirexperiences. These stories were played back to them and their physicalresponses recorded."When a Vietnam vet has his experiences played back to him in the labof some combat event, his heart rate goes up and you see an increasein sweating. If you don't have post-traumatic stress disorder, youdon't react that way."The heart-rate responses and sweating responses were at least asgreat in the alien abductees when they heard their memories of beingtaken and molested by space aliens and subjected to experiments asthose of people with genuine traumatic events."As someone who regularly suffers from sleep paralysis, I can see whymany sufferers mistake the experience with that of Alien abductions.Paralysis combined with visual hallucinations and feelings of intensefear are common symptoms of this condition. As I am sceptical ofaliens and the paranormal I do not relate my experiences with anabduction, however I do see a spirit like entity. I know it is notreal, but it seems to be there. If I believed in aliens before Istarted having these episodes, Aliens do not exist, and until they dowe shouldn't worry.The story says "therapists" suggest to distressed people that they mayhave been abducted by aliens, I believe these people are not fabricating the experiences they relate.I love to hear people like Professor McNally try to explain eventsthat fall outside the accepted realm of what scientists allowthemselves to believe or understand. Before I go any further, I haveto say that I have never been abducted or claimed to have beenabducted. But I find it outrageous to label another person'sexperience a "hallucination" just because it falls outside of myexperience or the expected "norms" of most people's experiences.I used to experience sleep paralysis and I used to see little figuresscuttling at the bottom of my room. at first I thought it was devilsor Martians, but then I realized it was pot smoking Canadians and eversince then I have doned my Super Hero persona says Mr Gaulke. Itis my duty as an abducted anti pot smoking super hero to don my"PotMan" super hero outfit(with frills) to save my brothers andsisters from certain death and destruction. We form a new super herogroup with "GangaMan" and his trusty side kick "RoachGirl" to ridcyber space of these evil people who it seems under no circumstanceswill agree with us. It is our greatest hope to end each day with thephrase, "One again we have made America safe from those pot smokingCanadians".

February 18, 2003

Boy, you really ARE a nut!

[ ] Re: THE END...and now folks back to Hepatitis C...

Gaulke of Wisconsin who claims to have been kidnapped by alienshas a tendency to believe in fantasies and suffer disturbingexperiences in their sleep, scientists have found.

February 18, 2003

No, people left because they accused some of you of turning this into a pro-marijuana forum. I have every single post since this started as evidence.

Have a great day!

RE: [ ] THE END...and now folks back to Hepatitis C...

Just wanted to say happy trails to all. I am fed up with this list. It isnot about HepC anymore. I am tired of reading all the hate mail and crapmail These people that use alternative treatment methods, more power toyou. Of course, you lose all credibility when you toss in the Doctorbashing. Supplements can be just as dangerous as prescribed medicine. I have beentorn between conventional treatment and natural treatment but after readingposts from Jeanine and others like her, there is no way I could go thatroute if that's the type of person you turn in to after treatment.I have found a much better and *nicer* group to be involved in.Hepatitis ClearingandClear. If you're looking for a group without thelunatics, come on over and visit.I hope those of you with all the pent up anger and frustration find a morepositive way to vent it.....

February 18, 2003

go ..., go ..., go ..., go ........

[ ] Re: THE END...and now folks back to Hepatitis C...

My My... you are really a little piss ant. Do you actuallybelieve that Sativa causes Heptocelluar Cancer?I have the authority to invite you to present your research to theRoyal Society. You may feel uncomfortable her in England as we provideour addicts with whatever drug they are addicted to. Marijuana is notone of them. If you have a research paper suggesting that our currentbeleif that marijuana is not an addictive substance, by all meansbring it with you. Some of the members of the Royal Society wouldappreciate if you could make your presentation in your PotmanOutfit(with frills).> Doctor, > > From your address I see you are in the UK. I am glad that some ofyou there do not support Bush's crazy war. I hope Tony Blair will beout of office soon. > > To the point: you are pro-pot and I merely pointed out, backed bydocumentation, the hazards of pot.> > I know that marijuana users and advocates get addicted to it andwon't admit it causes them harm. I realize that. I don't believe it isright to advocate its use to others, people sick with HCV -- as thecancer causing properties of hemp can kill them if they contract livercancer from the injestion of marijuana.> >

February 18, 2003

READ WHAT THE PERSON THAT LEFT BELOW WROTE, HE DID NOT MENTION ME BUT MENTIONED JEANINE (WHO IS RATHER INFAMOUS I SEE) AND HER ILK.

Sorry for the caps but my keyboard is messed up from laughing reading some of your posts ... I spilled water on it. Ooops.

Forgive me.

RE: [ ] THE END...and now folks back to Hepatitis C...

Just wanted to say happy trails to all. I am fed up with this list. It isnot about HepC anymore. I am tired of reading all the hate mail and crapmail These people that use alternative treatment methods, more power toyou. Of course, you lose all credibility when you toss in the Doctorbashing. Supplements can be just as dangerous as prescribed medicine. I have beentorn between conventional treatment and natural treatment but after readingposts from Jeanine and others like her, there is no way I could go thatroute if that's the type of person you turn in to after treatment.I have found a much better and *nicer* group to be involved in.Hepatitis ClearingandClear. If you're looking for a group without thelunatics, come on over and visit.I hope those of you with all the pent up anger and frustration find a morepositive way to vent it.....

February 18, 2003

Nuttier than Flanagan and his scam products? Naw ...

[ ] Re: THE END...and now folks back to Hepatitis C...

Gaulke of Wisconsin who claims to have been kidnapped by alienshas a tendency to believe in fantasies and suffer disturbingexperiences in their sleep, scientists have found.

February 19, 2003

A bit testy aren't we?, shouting and all--yeah sure you spilled water on it. I still say you have a crush on me.....

RE: [ ] THE END...and now folks back to Hepatitis C...

Just wanted to say happy trails to all. I am fed up with this list. It isnot about HepC anymore. I am tired of reading all the hate mail and crapmail These people that use alternative treatment methods, more power toyou. Of course, you lose all credibility when you toss in the Doctorbashing. Supplements can be just as dangerous as prescribed medicine. I have beentorn between conventional treatment and natural treatment but after readingposts from Jeanine and others like her, there is no way I could go thatroute if that's the type of person you turn in to after treatment.I have found a much better and *nicer* group to be involved in.Hepatitis ClearingandClear. If you're looking for a group without thelunatics, come on over and visit.I hope those of you with all the pent up anger and frustration find a morepositive way to vent it.....

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THE END...and now folks back to Hepatitis C...

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