Re: BIOPSY IS NOT MANDATORY BEFORE TREATMENT OF HEP-C

[Guest guest]

saleem.u saved me from fix. no need biopsy but i think someone challeng u."saleem.charudhary" <saleem.charudhary@...> wrote: DEAR FRIEND, PLEASE READ IT. SALEEMBIOPSY IS NOT MANDATORY BEFORE START OF TREATMENT OF HEPATITIS C. ALL DOCTORS HAVE CONSENSUS ON THIS ISSUE.From reading different posts, I have come across that almost all the persons have said that BIOPSY is a golden principal before start of treatment of Hep-C. They are NOT ready to accept against this version at all.To set the record straight and to clear the confusion rather misconception in the minds of the people, I hereunder reproduce the Extract from the Document adopted by Management of Viral Hepatitis: A Canadian Consensus Conference 2003/2004, which is available on internet and can be down

loaded. Please see page 19 which is read as under;QuoteLaboratory assessment prior to treatment should be include genotype, HCV RNA level where appropriate, CBC, PT, INR, Albumin, AST, ALT, Billirubin, Alkaline Phosphate, HBsAg, HIV,TSH,ANA, GLUCOSE,CREATININE, Serum or urine and Urinalysis. Additional test include abdominal ultrasound and ECG( if age over 50 or history of cardiac disease). Liver biopsy remains the most sensitive measure of disease severity and is recommended BUT IS NOT MANDATORY PRIOR TO THE INITIATION OF THERAPY. PATIENTS WITH GENOTYPE 2 AND 3 INFECTION WHO HAVE AHIGH LIKELIHOOD OF CURE, MAY NOT NEED A LIVER BIOPSY PRIOR TO THE TREATMENT.I hope the misconception would be cleared now.

Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Messenger with Voice.

[Guest guest]

I think it depends upon what you mean by "treatment". Obviously anyone who is diagnosed should immediately incorporate lifestyle changes related to diet and nutrition, and further "alternative therapies" are very individual decisions. For me personally, partially because I was aware of alternatives as well as the downside risks associated with "traditional" treatments- peg/interferon/rib, I believe biopsy is prudent before taking any radical course- it's the only way to realistically assess the upside/downside. My biopsy revealed I was geno 1A, with Stage 1 fibrosis; combined with a v/l of 10mil+ my hepatologist suggested I had <- 20% chance of a positive response to the chemo treatment.....I had HCV est 30 yrs before it was diagnosed, in light of all these factors I have chosen to pursue alternative therapies, which have generally maintained my ALT/AST within "normal" ranges. Everybody is

different....I am still amazed at the number of people refuse to even consider alternatives, have attempted traditional therapy multiple times with no long term clear, and in many cases have suffered additional debillitating effects of the treatment. C'est las guerre.....josaf jiwa <josaf.ml47@...> wrote: saleem.u saved me from fix. no need biopsy but i think someone challeng u."saleem.charudhary" <saleem.charudhary@...> wrote: DEAR FRIEND, PLEASE READ IT. SALEEMBIOPSY IS NOT MANDATORY BEFORE START OF TREATMENT OF HEPATITIS C. ALL DOCTORS HAVE CONSENSUS ON THIS ISSUE.From reading different posts, I have come across that almost all the persons have said that

BIOPSY is a golden principal before start of treatment of Hep-C. They are NOT ready to accept against this version at all.To set the record straight and to clear the confusion rather misconception in the minds of the people, I hereunder reproduce the Extract from the Document adopted by Management of Viral Hepatitis: A Canadian Consensus Conference 2003/2004, which is available on internet and can be down loaded. Please see page 19 which is read as under;QuoteLaboratory assessment prior to treatment should be include genotype, HCV RNA level where appropriate, CBC, PT, INR, Albumin, AST, ALT, Billirubin, Alkaline Phosphate, HBsAg, HIV,TSH,ANA, GLUCOSE,CREATININE, Serum or urine and Urinalysis. Additional test include abdominal ultrasound and ECG( if age over 50 or history of cardiac disease). Liver biopsy remains the most sensitive measure of disease severity and is

recommended BUT IS NOT MANDATORY PRIOR TO THE INITIATION OF THERAPY. PATIENTS WITH GENOTYPE 2 AND 3 INFECTION WHO HAVE AHIGH LIKELIHOOD OF CURE, MAY NOT NEED A LIVER BIOPSY PRIOR TO THE TREATMENT.I hope the misconception would be cleared now. Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Messenger with Voice. jwf2 W Fraser MWM Associates, LLCCell: (910) 200-2020 Fax: (910) 401-1490jwf2@...

[Guest guest]

Here " traetment" means interferon therapy Which the medical docs insist upon. In this part of the world, the docs do not ask for biopsy. A few friends in the group were adamant to go for biopsy in every case. This extract from the consensus conference 2003/2004 is reproduced for the benefits of those who do not go for biopsy. Yes you are right that alternative medicinces are availabl. I myself is using alternative medicinces and those are working, of course you need to change habits more particularly diets. thanks for your input. Othr members are also requested to please share their views for the benefits for other group members. saleemJ Fraser <formerfon@...> wrote: I think it depends upon what you mean by "treatment". Obviously anyone who is diagnosed should immediately incorporate

lifestyle changes related to diet and nutrition, and further "alternative therapies" are very individual decisions. For me personally, partially because I was aware of alternatives as well as the downside risks associated with "traditional" treatments- peg/interferon/rib, I believe biopsy is prudent before taking any radical course- it's the only way to realistically assess the upside/downside. My biopsy revealed I was geno 1A, with Stage 1 fibrosis; combined with a v/l of 10mil+ my hepatologist suggested I had <- 20% chance of a positive response to the chemo treatment.....I had HCV est 30 yrs before it was diagnosed, in light of all these factors I have chosen to pursue alternative therapies, which have generally maintained my ALT/AST within "normal" ranges. Everybody is different....I am still amazed at the number of people refuse to even consider alternatives, have attempted traditional therapy

multiple times with no long term clear, and in many cases have suffered additional debillitating effects of the treatment. C'est las guerre.....josaf jiwa <josaf.ml47@...> wrote: saleem.u saved me from fix. no need biopsy but i think someone challeng u."saleem.charudhary" <saleem.charudhary@...> wrote: DEAR FRIEND, PLEASE READ IT. SALEEMBIOPSY IS NOT MANDATORY BEFORE START OF TREATMENT OF HEPATITIS C. ALL DOCTORS HAVE CONSENSUS ON THIS ISSUE.From reading different posts, I have come across that almost all the persons have said that BIOPSY is a golden principal before start of treatment of Hep-C. They are NOT ready to accept against this version at

all.To set the record straight and to clear the confusion rather misconception in the minds of the people, I hereunder reproduce the Extract from the Document adopted by Management of Viral Hepatitis: A Canadian Consensus Conference 2003/2004, which is available on internet and can be down loaded. Please see page 19 which is read as under;QuoteLaboratory assessment prior to treatment should be include genotype, HCV RNA level where appropriate, CBC, PT, INR, Albumin, AST, ALT, Billirubin, Alkaline Phosphate, HBsAg, HIV,TSH,ANA, GLUCOSE,CREATININE, Serum or urine and Urinalysis. Additional test include abdominal ultrasound and ECG( if age over 50 or history of cardiac disease). Liver biopsy remains the most sensitive measure of disease severity and is recommended BUT IS NOT MANDATORY PRIOR TO THE INITIATION OF THERAPY. PATIENTS WITH GENOTYPE 2 AND 3 INFECTION

WHO HAVE AHIGH LIKELIHOOD OF CURE, MAY NOT NEED A LIVER BIOPSY PRIOR TO THE TREATMENT.I hope the misconception would be cleared now. Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Messenger with Voice. jwf2 W Fraser MWM Associates, LLCCell: (910) 200-2020 Fax: (910)

401-1490jwf2@...__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

FYI, the last number I saw for "positive long term response"(not even sure how that is defined) in the US was 56%, but that number is skewed heavily when genotype and viral load are considered, with a range between 20- 80%. When you are the low number of that spectrum why take the risk, imho.saleem chaudhary <saleem.charudhary@...> wrote: Here " traetment" means interferon therapy Which the medical docs insist upon. In this part of the world, the docs do not ask for biopsy. A few friends in the group were adamant to go for biopsy in every case. This extract from the consensus conference 2003/2004 is reproduced for the benefits of those who do not go for biopsy. Yes you are right that alternative medicinces are availabl. I myself is using alternative medicinces and those are working, of course

you need to change habits more particularly diets. thanks for your input. Othr members are also requested to please share their views for the benefits for other group members. saleemJ Fraser <formerfon@...> wrote: I think it depends upon what you mean by "treatment". Obviously anyone who is diagnosed should immediately incorporate lifestyle changes related to diet and nutrition, and further "alternative therapies" are very individual decisions. For me personally, partially because I was aware of alternatives as well as the downside risks associated with "traditional" treatments- peg/interferon/rib, I believe biopsy is prudent before taking any radical course- it's the only way to realistically assess the upside/downside. My biopsy revealed I was geno 1A, with Stage 1 fibrosis;

combined with a v/l of 10mil+ my hepatologist suggested I had <- 20% chance of a positive response to the chemo treatment.....I had HCV est 30 yrs before it was diagnosed, in light of all these factors I have chosen to pursue alternative therapies, which have generally maintained my ALT/AST within "normal" ranges. Everybody is different....I am still amazed at the number of people refuse to even consider alternatives, have attempted traditional therapy multiple times with no long term clear, and in many cases have suffered additional debillitating effects of the treatment. C'est las guerre.....josaf jiwa <josaf.ml47@...> wrote: saleem.u saved me from fix. no need biopsy but i think someone challeng u."saleem.charudhary" <saleem.charudhary@...> wrote: DEAR FRIEND, PLEASE READ IT. SALEEMBIOPSY IS NOT MANDATORY BEFORE START OF TREATMENT OF HEPATITIS C. ALL DOCTORS HAVE CONSENSUS ON THIS ISSUE.From reading different posts, I have come across that almost all the persons have said that BIOPSY is a golden principal before start of treatment of Hep-C. They are NOT ready to accept against this version at all.To set the record straight and to clear the confusion rather misconception in the minds of the people, I hereunder reproduce the Extract from the Document adopted by Management of Viral Hepatitis: A Canadian Consensus Conference 2003/2004, which is available on internet and can be down loaded. Please see page 19 which is read as under;QuoteLaboratory assessment prior to treatment should be include genotype, HCV RNA level

where appropriate, CBC, PT, INR, Albumin, AST, ALT, Billirubin, Alkaline Phosphate, HBsAg, HIV,TSH,ANA, GLUCOSE,CREATININE, Serum or urine and Urinalysis. Additional test include abdominal ultrasound and ECG( if age over 50 or history of cardiac disease). Liver biopsy remains the most sensitive measure of disease severity and is recommended BUT IS NOT MANDATORY PRIOR TO THE INITIATION OF THERAPY. PATIENTS WITH GENOTYPE 2 AND 3 INFECTION WHO HAVE AHIGH LIKELIHOOD OF CURE, MAY NOT NEED A LIVER BIOPSY PRIOR TO THE TREATMENT.I hope the misconception would be cleared now. Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Messenger with Voice. jwf2 W Fraser MWM Associates, LLCCell: (910) 200-2020 Fax: (910) 401-1490jwf2@... __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

It seems that there are a good number of people who decide that they have little odds of "responding" and they do not want to chance the possiblility of serious side effects or harmful long-term effects of interferon treatment.

I have never advised anyone that they should take this route, because I would never want anyone to avoid taking something that could cure them. But on the other hand, I wouldn't want to advise them to do a treatment that could cause them unnecessary RISKS against their overall health.

I, personally, have not wanted to risk the interferon. I am not saying that is right, but that I feel that for ME, it is the right choice. It is just different for EACH one of us. We need a doctor who knows us well and can advise us well. But we also need to know ourselves well. And weigh it all out to decide what risks we are willing to take.

Some people are able to take alternative treatments and "live" with the virus with acceptable levels of health, and are happy doing so. Rather than seeking to eradicate or kill the virus, they are finding ways to "deal" with it and learning how to sustain health DESPITE the virus.

I understand, and so do many others the feeling that when you are not likely to respond (due to your genotype etc), why put yourself through the risks and side effects? That is something I have thought myself...

Anyway, thanks for sharing and I wish you the best.

Re: [ ] BIOPSY IS NOT MANDATORY BEFORE TREATMENT OF HEP-C

FYI, the last number I saw for "positive long term response"(not even sure how that is defined) in the US was 56%, but that number is skewed heavily when genotype and viral load are considered, with a range between 20- 80%. When you are the low number of that spectrum why take the risk, imho.saleem chaudhary <saleem.charudhary@...> wrote:

Here " traetment" means interferon therapy Which the medical docs insist upon. In this part of the world, the docs do not ask for biopsy. A few friends in the group were adamant to go for biopsy in every case. This extract from the consensus conference 2003/2004 is reproduced for the benefits of those who do not go for biopsy.

Yes you are right that alternative medicinces are availabl. I myself is using alternative medicinces and those are working, of course you need to change habits more particularly diets. thanks for your input. Othr members are also requested to please share their views for the benefits for other group members. saleemJ Fraser <formerfon@...> wrote:

I think it depends upon what you mean by "treatment". Obviously anyone who is diagnosed should immediately incorporate lifestyle changes related to diet and nutrition, and further "alternative therapies" are very individual decisions.

For me personally, partially because I was aware of alternatives as well as the downside risks associated with "traditional" treatments- peg/interferon/rib, I believe biopsy is prudent before taking any radical course- it's the only way to realistically assess the upside/downside. My biopsy revealed I was geno 1A, with Stage 1 fibrosis; combined with a v/l of 10mil+ my hepatologist suggested I had <- 20% chance of a positive response to the chemo treatment.....I had HCV est 30 yrs before it was diagnosed, in light of all these factors I have chosen to pursue alternative therapies, which have generally maintained my ALT/AST within "normal" ranges.

Everybody is different....I am still amazed at the number of people refuse to even consider alternatives, have attempted traditional therapy multiple times with no long term clear, and in many cases have suffered additional debillitating effects of the treatment. C'est las guerre.....josaf jiwa <josaf.ml47@...> wrote:

saleem.u saved me from fix. no need biopsy but i think someone challeng u."saleem.charudhary" <saleem.charudhary@...> wrote: DEAR FRIEND, PLEASE READ IT. SALEEMBIOPSY IS NOT MANDATORY BEFORE START OF TREATMENT OF HEPATITIS C. ALL DOCTORS HAVE CONSENSUS ON THIS ISSUE.From reading different posts, I have come across that almost all the persons have said that BIOPSY is a golden principal before start of treatment of Hep-C. They are NOT ready to accept against this version at all.To set the record straight and to clear the confusion rather misconception in the minds of the people, I hereunder reproduce the Extract from the Document adopted by Management of Viral Hepatitis: A Canadian Consensus Conference 2003/2004, which is available on internet and can be down loaded. Please see page 19 which is read as under;QuoteLaboratory assessment prior to treatment should be include genotype, HCV RNA level where appropriate, CBC, PT, INR, Albumin, AST, ALT, Billirubin, Alkaline Phosphate, HBsAg, HIV,TSH,ANA, GLUCOSE,CREATININE, Serum or urine and Urinalysis. Additional test include abdominal ultrasound and ECG( if age over 50 or history of cardiac disease). Liver biopsy remains the most sensitive measure of disease severity and is recommended BUT IS NOT MANDATORY PRIOR TO THE INITIATION OF THERAPY. PATIENTS WITH GENOTYPE 2 AND 3 INFECTION WHO HAVE AHIGH LIKELIHOOD OF CURE, MAY NOT NEED A LIVER BIOPSY PRIOR TO THE TREATMENT.I hope the misconception would be cleared now.

Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Messenger with Voice.

jwf2

W Fraser

MWM Associates, LLCCell: (910) 200-2020

Fax: (910) 401-1490jwf2@...

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

In your case, it sounds like the biopsy was helpful in making your decision against traditional treatment, with a less than 20 % chance of responding. With all the factors and information you had, you were able to come to a conclusion. Deciding one way or the other and feeling good about making an informed decision is a good step in itself. You got as much information as you could before deciding, that is a good course of action, in my opinion.

Perhaps others would find a biopsy helpful for those reasons. Another reason a biopsy would be good, would be if you found out you were LIKELY to respond. If you have high chances of sustaining a response, perhaps you would feel more inclined to do the interferon etc. Either way, it seems the biopsy can be useful in making informed decisions.

Re: [ ] BIOPSY IS NOT MANDATORY BEFORE TREATMENT OF HEP-C

I think it depends upon what you mean by "treatment". Obviously anyone who is diagnosed should immediately incorporate lifestyle changes related to diet and nutrition, and further "alternative therapies" are very individual decisions.

For me personally, partially because I was aware of alternatives as well as the downside risks associated with "traditional" treatments- peg/interferon/rib, I believe biopsy is prudent before taking any radical course- it's the only way to realistically assess the upside/downside. My biopsy revealed I was geno 1A, with Stage 1 fibrosis; combined with a v/l of 10mil+ my hepatologist suggested I had <- 20% chance of a positive response to the chemo treatment.....I had HCV est 30 yrs before it was diagnosed, in light of all these factors I have chosen to pursue alternative therapies, which have generally maintained my ALT/AST within "normal" ranges.

Everybody is different....I am still amazed at the number of people refuse to even consider alternatives, have attempted traditional therapy multiple times with no long term clear, and in many cases have suffered additional debillitating effects of the treatment. C'est las guerre.....josaf jiwa <josaf.ml47@...> wrote:

saleem.u saved me from fix. no need biopsy but i think someone challeng u."saleem.charudhary" <saleem.charudhary@...> wrote: DEAR FRIEND, PLEASE READ IT. SALEEMBIOPSY IS NOT MANDATORY BEFORE START OF TREATMENT OF HEPATITIS C. ALL DOCTORS HAVE CONSENSUS ON THIS ISSUE.From reading different posts, I have come across that almost all the persons have said that BIOPSY is a golden principal before start of treatment of Hep-C. They are NOT ready to accept against this version at all.To set the record straight and to clear the confusion rather misconception in the minds of the people, I hereunder reproduce the Extract from the Document adopted by Management of Viral Hepatitis: A Canadian Consensus Conference 2003/2004, which is available on internet and can be down loaded. Please see page 19 which is read as under;QuoteLaboratory assessment prior to treatment should be include genotype, HCV RNA level where appropriate, CBC, PT, INR, Albumin, AST, ALT, Billirubin, Alkaline Phosphate, HBsAg, HIV,TSH,ANA, GLUCOSE,CREATININE, Serum or urine and Urinalysis. Additional test include abdominal ultrasound and ECG( if age over 50 or history of cardiac disease). Liver biopsy remains the most sensitive measure of disease severity and is recommended BUT IS NOT MANDATORY PRIOR TO THE INITIATION OF THERAPY. PATIENTS WITH GENOTYPE 2 AND 3 INFECTION WHO HAVE AHIGH LIKELIHOOD OF CURE, MAY NOT NEED A LIVER BIOPSY PRIOR TO THE TREATMENT.I hope the misconception would be cleared now.

Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Messenger with Voice.

jwf2

W Fraser

MWM Associates, LLCCell: (910) 200-2020

[Guest guest]

This is useful to know about. It seems to me that if a person knows they want to try the interferon treatment, they may not choose to get the biopsy. But, I think the doctor would still advise it.

If you know you don't want to do the treatment, then biopsy would not be recommended, since it wont "help" you if you are not doing the treatment anyway.

I have not done a biopsy, myself. Since I decided not to pursue traditional treatment. If I was considering treatment I would do the biopsy first to make sure I had good chances of "responding."

Thanks for the info, I am adding it to my file of info on biopsy.

[ ] BIOPSY IS NOT MANDATORY BEFORE TREATMENT OF HEP-C

DEAR FRIEND, PLEASE READ IT. SALEEMBIOPSY IS NOT MANDATORY BEFORE START OF TREATMENT OF HEPATITIS C. ALL DOCTORS HAVE CONSENSUS ON THIS ISSUE.From reading different posts, I have come across that almost all the persons have said that BIOPSY is a golden principal before start of treatment of Hep-C. They are NOT ready to accept against this version at all.To set the record straight and to clear the confusion rather misconception in the minds of the people, I hereunder reproduce the Extract from the Document adopted by Management of Viral Hepatitis: A Canadian Consensus Conference 2003/2004, which is available on internet and can be down loaded. Please see page 19 which is read as under;QuoteLaboratory assessment prior to treatment should be include genotype, HCV RNA level where appropriate, CBC, PT, INR, Albumin, AST, ALT, Billirubin, Alkaline Phosphate, HBsAg, HIV,TSH,ANA, GLUCOSE,CREATININE, Serum or urine and Urinalysis. Additional test include abdominal ultrasound and ECG( if age over 50 or history of cardiac disease). Liver biopsy remains the most sensitive measure of disease severity and is recommended BUT IS NOT MANDATORY PRIOR TO THE INITIATION OF THERAPY. PATIENTS WITH GENOTYPE 2 AND 3 INFECTION WHO HAVE AHIGH LIKELIHOOD OF CURE, MAY NOT NEED A LIVER BIOPSY PRIOR TO THE TREATMENT.I hope the misconception would be cleared now.

[Guest guest]

I would like to respond to what seems to be a

recurring theme , the emphasis on viral load seems as

though some are mistaking it as a gauge of severity of

HCV, it is only used as a benchmark factor for

responce to treatment . As to biopsy, I never had a

biopsy until after my liver transplant, I was too far

advanced in disease for my system too handle it or any

treatment therapies pretransplant . A VL that would be

killing me ,as it was , may not even bring symptoms in

another .

--- <annalivia4@...> wrote:

> In your case, it sounds like the biopsy was helpful

> in making your decision against traditional

> treatment, with a less than 20 % chance of

> responding. With all the factors and information you

> had, you were able to come to a conclusion. Deciding

> one way or the other and feeling good about making

> an informed decision is a good step in itself. You

> got as much information as you could before

> deciding, that is a good course of action, in my

> opinion.

>

> Perhaps others would find a biopsy helpful for those

> reasons. Another reason a biopsy would be good,

> would be if you found out you were LIKELY to

> respond. If you have high chances of sustaining a

> response, perhaps you would feel more inclined to do

> the interferon etc. Either way, it seems the biopsy

> can be useful in making informed decisions.

>

>

>

>

>

> Re: [ ] BIOPSY IS NOT

> MANDATORY BEFORE TREATMENT OF HEP-C

>

>

> I think it depends upon what you mean by

> " treatment " . Obviously anyone who is diagnosed

> should immediately incorporate lifestyle changes

> related to diet and nutrition, and further

> " alternative therapies " are very individual

> decisions.

>

> For me personally, partially because I was aware

> of alternatives as well as the downside risks

> associated with " traditional " treatments-

> peg/interferon/rib, I believe biopsy is prudent

> before taking any radical course- it's the only way

> to realistically assess the upside/downside. My

> biopsy revealed I was geno 1A, with Stage 1

> fibrosis; combined with a v/l of 10mil+ my

> hepatologist suggested I had <- 20% chance of a

> positive response to the chemo treatment.....I had

> HCV est 30 yrs before it was diagnosed, in light of

> all these factors I have chosen to pursue

> alternative therapies, which have generally

> maintained my ALT/AST within " normal " ranges.

>

> Everybody is different....I am still amazed at the

> number of people refuse to even consider

> alternatives, have attempted traditional therapy

> multiple times with no long term clear, and in many

> cases have suffered additional debillitating effects

> of the treatment. C'est las guerre.....

>

> josaf jiwa <josaf.ml47@...> wrote:

> saleem.u saved me from fix. no need biopsy but i

> think someone challeng u.

>

> " saleem.charudhary "

> <saleem.charudhary@...> wrote:

> DEAR FRIEND, PLEASE READ IT. SALEEM

>

>

> BIOPSY IS NOT MANDATORY BEFORE START OF

> TREATMENT OF HEPATITIS C.

> ALL DOCTORS HAVE CONSENSUS ON THIS ISSUE.

>

>

> From reading different posts, I have come

> across that almost all the

> persons have said that BIOPSY is a golden

> principal before start of

> treatment of Hep-C. They are NOT ready to

> accept against this

> version at all.

> To set the record straight and to clear the

> confusion rather

> misconception in the minds of the people, I

> hereunder reproduce the

> Extract from the Document adopted by

> Management of Viral

> Hepatitis: A Canadian Consensus Conference

> 2003/2004, which is

> available on internet and can be down loaded.

> Please see page 19

> which is read as under;

> Quote

> Laboratory assessment prior to treatment

> should be include genotype,

> HCV RNA level where appropriate, CBC, PT, INR,

> Albumin, AST, ALT,

> Billirubin, Alkaline Phosphate, HBsAg,

> HIV,TSH,ANA,

> GLUCOSE,CREATININE, Serum or urine and

> Urinalysis. Additional test

> include abdominal ultrasound and ECG( if age

> over 50 or history of

> cardiac disease). Liver biopsy remains the

> most sensitive measure of

> disease severity and is recommended BUT IS NOT

> MANDATORY PRIOR TO

> THE INITIATION OF THERAPY. PATIENTS WITH

> GENOTYPE 2 AND 3

> INFECTION WHO HAVE AHIGH LIKELIHOOD OF CURE,

> MAY NOT NEED A LIVER

> BIOPSY PRIOR TO THE TREATMENT.

>

> I hope the misconception would be cleared now.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Blab-away for as little as 1�/min. Make

> PC-to-Phone Calls using Messenger with Voice.

>

>

>

>

>

> jwf2

> W Fraser

> MWM Associates, LLC

>

> Cell: (910) 200-2020

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

ANNA, Even you want to start treatment Interferon, the biopsy is not mandatory as per the consensus document adopted by conference 2003/2004. In fact the doc can easily judge the condition of liver damage from other blood test and ultrasound. That's why the doc of this part of the world do not ask for biospy and are succesfully treating the people. The docs are of international repute. So why to spend more money unnecessorily or got your liver punctured. With due apology to the docs, they are more friendly to the Pharma cos and labs in stead of patients because they are investing good amount on docs. So good doc can assess the damage with clinical check up and blood test and ultrasound. My doc has given his opinion after clinical check up and seeing the reports. He categorically refused to go for Biopsy. However, in exceptional cases, where there are complicated case, they have arranged biopsy, otherwise in normal case. No. There

approach is exactly in line with international conference recomendations. I hope position would have cleared more. saleem <annalivia4@...> wrote: This is useful to know about. It seems to me that if a person knows they want to try the interferon treatment, they may not choose to get the biopsy. But, I think the doctor would still advise it. If you know you don't want to do the treatment, then biopsy would not be recommended, since it wont "help" you if you are not doing the treatment anyway. I have not done a biopsy, myself. Since

I decided not to pursue traditional treatment. If I was considering treatment I would do the biopsy first to make sure I had good chances of "responding." Thanks for the info, I am adding it to my file of info on biopsy. [ ] BIOPSY IS NOT MANDATORY BEFORE TREATMENT OF HEP-C DEAR FRIEND, PLEASE READ IT. SALEEMBIOPSY IS NOT MANDATORY BEFORE START OF TREATMENT OF HEPATITIS C. ALL DOCTORS HAVE CONSENSUS ON THIS ISSUE.From reading different posts, I have come across that almost all the persons have said that BIOPSY is a golden principal before start of treatment of Hep-C. They are NOT ready to accept against this version at all.To set the record straight and to clear the confusion rather misconception in the minds of the people, I hereunder reproduce the Extract from the Document adopted by Management of Viral Hepatitis: A Canadian

Consensus Conference 2003/2004, which is available on internet and can be down loaded. Please see page 19 which is read as under;QuoteLaboratory assessment prior to treatment should be include genotype, HCV RNA level where appropriate, CBC, PT, INR, Albumin, AST, ALT, Billirubin, Alkaline Phosphate, HBsAg, HIV,TSH,ANA, GLUCOSE,CREATININE, Serum or urine and Urinalysis. Additional test include abdominal ultrasound and ECG( if age over 50 or history of cardiac disease). Liver biopsy remains the most sensitive measure of disease severity and is recommended BUT IS NOT MANDATORY PRIOR TO THE INITIATION OF THERAPY. PATIENTS WITH GENOTYPE 2 AND 3 INFECTION WHO HAVE AHIGH LIKELIHOOD OF CURE, MAY NOT NEED A LIVER BIOPSY PRIOR TO THE TREATMENT.I hope the misconception would be cleared now.

Be a chatter box. Enjoy free PC-to-PC calls with Messenger with Voice.

[Guest guest]

I just think you need to have all the facts....if you have no liver damage....why treat with chemicals that will destroy other parts of your body? <annalivia4@...> wrote: This is useful to know about. It seems to me that if a person knows they want to try the interferon treatment, they may not choose to get the biopsy. But, I think the doctor would still advise it. If you know you don't want to do the treatment, then biopsy would not be recommended, since it wont "help" you if you are not doing the treatment anyway. I have not done a biopsy, myself.

Since I decided not to pursue traditional treatment. If I was considering treatment I would do the biopsy first to make sure I had good chances of "responding." Thanks for the info, I am adding it to my file of info on biopsy. [ ] BIOPSY IS NOT MANDATORY BEFORE TREATMENT OF HEP-C DEAR FRIEND, PLEASE READ IT. SALEEMBIOPSY IS NOT MANDATORY BEFORE START OF TREATMENT OF HEPATITIS C. ALL DOCTORS HAVE CONSENSUS ON THIS ISSUE.From reading different posts, I have come across that almost all the persons have said that BIOPSY is a golden principal before start of treatment of Hep-C. They are NOT ready to accept against this version at all.To set the record straight and to clear the confusion rather misconception in the minds of the people, I hereunder reproduce the Extract from the Document adopted by Management of Viral Hepatitis: A Canadian

Consensus Conference 2003/2004, which is available on internet and can be down loaded. Please see page 19 which is read as under;QuoteLaboratory assessment prior to treatment should be include genotype, HCV RNA level where appropriate, CBC, PT, INR, Albumin, AST, ALT, Billirubin, Alkaline Phosphate, HBsAg, HIV,TSH,ANA, GLUCOSE,CREATININE, Serum or urine and Urinalysis. Additional test include abdominal ultrasound and ECG( if age over 50 or history of cardiac disease). Liver biopsy remains the most sensitive measure of disease severity and is recommended BUT IS NOT MANDATORY PRIOR TO THE INITIATION OF THERAPY. PATIENTS WITH GENOTYPE 2 AND 3 INFECTION WHO HAVE AHIGH LIKELIHOOD OF CURE, MAY NOT NEED A LIVER BIOPSY PRIOR TO THE TREATMENT.I hope the misconception would be cleared now. jwf2 W Fraser MWM Associates, LLCCell: (910)

200-2020 Fax: (910) 401-1490jwf2@...

[Guest guest]

You are exactly right Terry, v/l has nothing to do with severity of disease or liver activity, but it is one of the TWO predictors used statistically to indicate response rates to treatment. Another factor to consider; as Hillbilly Tim pointed out, the v/l test is not certified by the FDA, and, it cannot measure below 400 parts per ml.....so you never REALLY know if you are clear or not......which is probably why so many people resurge after some period of time. My hepatologist (conservative, member of the board of ALF) once told me that the tests themselves are so variable that he could take my same sample, send it to ten different labs and get ten results over so wide a range and so variable as to be meaningless....fyiterry tennille <t_tennille@...> wrote: I would like to respond

to what seems to be arecurring theme , the emphasis on viral load seems asthough some are mistaking it as a gauge of severity ofHCV, it is only used as a benchmark factor forresponce to treatment . As to biopsy, I never had abiopsy until after my liver transplant, I was too faradvanced in disease for my system too handle it or anytreatment therapies pretransplant . A VL that would bekilling me ,as it was , may not even bring symptoms inanother . --- <annalivia4@...> wrote:> In your case, it sounds like the biopsy was helpful> in making your decision against traditional> treatment, with a less than 20 % chance of> responding. With all the factors and information you> had, you were able to come to a conclusion. Deciding> one way or the other and feeling good about making> an informed decision is a good step in itself. You> got as much information as

you could before> deciding, that is a good course of action, in my> opinion.> > Perhaps others would find a biopsy helpful for those> reasons. Another reason a biopsy would be good,> would be if you found out you were LIKELY to> respond. If you have high chances of sustaining a> response, perhaps you would feel more inclined to do> the interferon etc. Either way, it seems the biopsy> can be useful in making informed decisions.> > > > > > Re: [ ] BIOPSY IS NOT> MANDATORY BEFORE TREATMENT OF HEP-C> > > I think it depends upon what you mean by> "treatment". Obviously anyone who is

diagnosed> should immediately incorporate lifestyle changes> related to diet and nutrition, and further> "alternative therapies" are very individual> decisions.> > For me personally, partially because I was aware> of alternatives as well as the downside risks> associated with "traditional" treatments-> peg/interferon/rib, I believe biopsy is prudent> before taking any radical course- it's the only way> to realistically assess the upside/downside. My> biopsy revealed I was geno 1A, with Stage 1> fibrosis; combined with a v/l of 10mil+ my> hepatologist suggested I had <- 20% chance of a> positive response to the chemo treatment.....I had> HCV est 30 yrs before it was diagnosed, in light of> all these factors I have chosen to pursue> alternative therapies, which have generally> maintained my ALT/AST within "normal"

ranges.> > Everybody is different....I am still amazed at the> number of people refuse to even consider> alternatives, have attempted traditional therapy> multiple times with no long term clear, and in many> cases have suffered additional debillitating effects> of the treatment. C'est las guerre.....> > josaf jiwa <josaf.ml47@...> wrote:> saleem.u saved me from fix. no need biopsy but i> think someone challeng u.> > "saleem.charudhary"> <saleem.charudhary@...> wrote: > DEAR FRIEND, PLEASE READ IT. SALEEM> > > BIOPSY IS NOT MANDATORY BEFORE START OF> TREATMENT OF HEPATITIS C. > ALL DOCTORS HAVE CONSENSUS ON THIS ISSUE.>

> > From reading different posts, I have come> across that almost all the > persons have said that BIOPSY is a golden> principal before start of > treatment of Hep-C. They are NOT ready to> accept against this > version at all.> To set the record straight and to clear the> confusion rather > misconception in the minds of the people, I> hereunder reproduce the > Extract from the Document adopted by > Management of Viral > Hepatitis: A Canadian Consensus Conference> 2003/2004, which is > available on internet and can be

down loaded.> Please see page 19 > which is read as under;> Quote> Laboratory assessment prior to treatment> should be include genotype, > HCV RNA level where appropriate, CBC, PT, INR,> Albumin, AST, ALT, > Billirubin, Alkaline Phosphate, HBsAg, > HIV,TSH,ANA, > GLUCOSE,CREATININE, Serum or urine and> Urinalysis. Additional test > include abdominal ultrasound and ECG( if age> over 50 or history of > cardiac disease). Liver biopsy remains the> most sensitive measure of > disease severity and is recommended BUT IS NOT>

MANDATORY PRIOR TO > THE INITIATION OF THERAPY. PATIENTS WITH> GENOTYPE 2 AND 3 > INFECTION WHO HAVE AHIGH LIKELIHOOD OF CURE,> MAY NOT NEED A LIVER > BIOPSY PRIOR TO THE TREATMENT.> > I hope the misconception would be cleared now.> > > > > > > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------------> Blab-away for as little as 1�/min. Make> PC-to-Phone Calls using Messenger with Voice.> > > > > > jwf2> W Fraser > MWM Associates, LLC> > Cell: (910) 200-2020> > >

[Guest guest]

Fraser, You are right. If you have no liver damage, then why to try chemicals or so hard treatment but the quetion is that how to judge the damage. there is a school of thought particularly in America that the only way is Biopsy but What i want to clarify that the docs can judge the damage without biopsy through clinical examination, blood reports and ultrasound. The extract i have given is consensus document of International conference 2003/2004 held in Canada that Biopsy is not MANDATORY. so why to spend more and puncture liver if it is not mandatory. Even after biopsy the treatment would be the same. BIOPSY DONE OR BIOPSY NOT DONE, THE TREATMENT WOULD BE THE SAME. THE DURATION WILL BE DECIDED ON THE BASIS OF GENOTYPE. SALEEMJ Fraser <formerfon@...> wrote: I just think you need to have all the facts....if you have

no liver damage....why treat with chemicals that will destroy other parts of your body? <annalivia4@...> wrote: This is useful to know about. It seems to me that if a person knows they want to try the interferon treatment, they may not choose to get the biopsy. But, I think the doctor would still advise it. If you know you don't want to do the treatment, then biopsy would not be recommended, since it wont "help" you if you are not doing the treatment anyway. I have not done a biopsy, myself. Since I decided not to pursue traditional treatment. If

I was considering treatment I would do the biopsy first to make sure I had good chances of "responding." Thanks for the info, I am adding it to my file of info on biopsy. [ ] BIOPSY IS NOT MANDATORY BEFORE TREATMENT OF HEP-C DEAR FRIEND, PLEASE READ IT. SALEEMBIOPSY IS NOT MANDATORY BEFORE START OF TREATMENT OF HEPATITIS C. ALL DOCTORS HAVE CONSENSUS ON THIS ISSUE.From reading different posts, I have come across that almost all the persons have said that BIOPSY is a golden principal before start of treatment of Hep-C. They are NOT ready to accept against this version at all.To set the record straight and to clear the confusion rather misconception in the minds of the people, I hereunder reproduce the Extract from the Document adopted by Management of Viral Hepatitis: A Canadian Consensus Conference 2003/2004, which

is available on internet and can be down loaded. Please see page 19 which is read as under;QuoteLaboratory assessment prior to treatment should be include genotype, HCV RNA level where appropriate, CBC, PT, INR, Albumin, AST, ALT, Billirubin, Alkaline Phosphate, HBsAg, HIV,TSH,ANA, GLUCOSE,CREATININE, Serum or urine and Urinalysis. Additional test include abdominal ultrasound and ECG( if age over 50 or history of cardiac disease). Liver biopsy remains the most sensitive measure of disease severity and is recommended BUT IS NOT MANDATORY PRIOR TO THE INITIATION OF THERAPY. PATIENTS WITH GENOTYPE 2 AND 3 INFECTION WHO HAVE AHIGH LIKELIHOOD OF CURE, MAY NOT NEED A LIVER BIOPSY PRIOR TO THE TREATMENT.I hope the misconception would be cleared now. jwf2 W Fraser MWM Associates, LLCCell: (910) 200-2020 Fax: (910) 401-1490jwf2@...

Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.

[Guest guest]

You bring up another issue Saleem, the relationship between docs and drug cos. There are several medical specialty boards in the US that are currently reviewing their policies and procedures regarding doctors requirements to reveal the amount of funding they receive from drug co's, because of the potential for inappropriate influence making treatment recomendations. Even in our little corner of the room where we are concerned about HCV treatment, the political and policy ramifications are HUGE....and it is why I am so appreciative of people like PeachStatePam who are trying to publicize and drive policy issues...saleem chaudhary <saleem.charudhary@...> wrote: ANNA, Even you want to start treatment Interferon, the biopsy is not mandatory as per the consensus

document adopted by conference 2003/2004. In fact the doc can easily judge the condition of liver damage from other blood test and ultrasound. That's why the doc of this part of the world do not ask for biospy and are succesfully treating the people. The docs are of international repute. So why to spend more money unnecessorily or got your liver punctured. With due apology to the docs, they are more friendly to the Pharma cos and labs in stead of patients because they are investing good amount on docs. So good doc can assess the damage with clinical check up and blood test and ultrasound. My doc has given his opinion after clinical check up and seeing the reports. He categorically refused to go for Biopsy. However, in exceptional cases, where there are complicated case, they have arranged biopsy, otherwise in normal case. No. There approach is exactly in line with international conference recomendations. I hope position would have

cleared more. saleem <annalivia4@...> wrote: This is useful to know about. It seems to me that if a person knows they want to try the interferon treatment, they may not choose to get the biopsy. But, I think the doctor would still advise it. If you know you don't want to do the treatment, then biopsy would not be recommended, since it wont "help" you if you are not doing the treatment anyway. I have not done a biopsy, myself. Since I decided not to pursue traditional treatment. If I was considering treatment I would do the biopsy first to

make sure I had good chances of "responding." Thanks for the info, I am adding it to my file of info on biopsy. [ ] BIOPSY IS NOT MANDATORY BEFORE TREATMENT OF HEP-C DEAR FRIEND, PLEASE READ IT. SALEEMBIOPSY IS NOT MANDATORY BEFORE START OF TREATMENT OF HEPATITIS C. ALL DOCTORS HAVE CONSENSUS ON THIS ISSUE.From reading different posts, I have come across that almost all the persons have said that BIOPSY is a golden principal before start of treatment of Hep-C. They are NOT ready to accept against this version at all.To set the record straight and to clear the confusion rather misconception in the minds of the people, I hereunder reproduce the Extract from the Document adopted by Management of Viral Hepatitis: A Canadian Consensus Conference 2003/2004, which is available on internet and can be down loaded. Please see page 19 which is

read as under;QuoteLaboratory assessment prior to treatment should be include genotype, HCV RNA level where appropriate, CBC, PT, INR, Albumin, AST, ALT, Billirubin, Alkaline Phosphate, HBsAg, HIV,TSH,ANA, GLUCOSE,CREATININE, Serum or urine and Urinalysis. Additional test include abdominal ultrasound and ECG( if age over 50 or history of cardiac disease). Liver biopsy remains the most sensitive measure of disease severity and is recommended BUT IS NOT MANDATORY PRIOR TO THE INITIATION OF THERAPY. PATIENTS WITH GENOTYPE 2 AND 3 INFECTION WHO HAVE AHIGH LIKELIHOOD OF CURE, MAY NOT NEED A LIVER BIOPSY PRIOR TO THE TREATMENT.I hope the misconception would be cleared now. Be a chatter box. Enjoy free PC-to-PC calls with Messenger with Voice. jwf2 W Fraser MWM Associates, LLCCell: (910) 200-2020 Fax: (910) 401-1490jwf2@...

[Guest guest]

TERRY, NO ONE ELSE CAN BETTER GUIDE AND PROVIDE INFORMATION THAN YOU. yOU HAD A TRANSPLANT AND STILL HAVING DAMAGED LIVER. PLEASE GIVE YOU IN PUT IN DETAIL AND CLEAR MISCONCEPTIONS OF THE MEMBERS. SALEEMterry tennille <t_tennille@...> wrote: I would like to respond to what seems to be arecurring theme , the emphasis on viral load seems asthough some are mistaking it as a gauge of severity ofHCV, it is only used as a benchmark factor forresponce to treatment . As to biopsy, I never had abiopsy until after my liver transplant, I was too faradvanced in disease for my system too handle it or anytreatment therapies pretransplant . A VL that would bekilling me ,as it was , may not even bring symptoms inanother . --- <annalivia4@...> wrote:> In

your case, it sounds like the biopsy was helpful> in making your decision against traditional> treatment, with a less than 20 % chance of> responding. With all the factors and information you> had, you were able to come to a conclusion. Deciding> one way or the other and feeling good about making> an informed decision is a good step in itself. You> got as much information as you could before> deciding, that is a good course of action, in my> opinion.> > Perhaps others would find a biopsy helpful for those> reasons. Another reason a biopsy would be good,> would be if you found out you were LIKELY to> respond. If you have high chances of sustaining a> response, perhaps you would feel more inclined to do> the interferon etc. Either way, it seems the biopsy> can be useful in making informed decisions.> > > > >

> Re: [ ] BIOPSY IS NOT> MANDATORY BEFORE TREATMENT OF HEP-C> > > I think it depends upon what you mean by> "treatment". Obviously anyone who is diagnosed> should immediately incorporate lifestyle changes> related to diet and nutrition, and further> "alternative therapies" are very individual> decisions.> > For me personally, partially because I was aware> of alternatives as well as the downside risks> associated with "traditional" treatments-> peg/interferon/rib, I believe biopsy is prudent> before taking any radical course- it's the only way> to realistically assess the upside/downside.

My> biopsy revealed I was geno 1A, with Stage 1> fibrosis; combined with a v/l of 10mil+ my> hepatologist suggested I had <- 20% chance of a> positive response to the chemo treatment.....I had> HCV est 30 yrs before it was diagnosed, in light of> all these factors I have chosen to pursue> alternative therapies, which have generally> maintained my ALT/AST within "normal" ranges.> > Everybody is different....I am still amazed at the> number of people refuse to even consider> alternatives, have attempted traditional therapy> multiple times with no long term clear, and in many> cases have suffered additional debillitating effects> of the treatment. C'est las guerre.....> > josaf jiwa <josaf.ml47@...> wrote:> saleem.u saved me from fix. no need biopsy but i> think someone

challeng u.> > "saleem.charudhary"> <saleem.charudhary@...> wrote: > DEAR FRIEND, PLEASE READ IT. SALEEM> > > BIOPSY IS NOT MANDATORY BEFORE START OF> TREATMENT OF HEPATITIS C. > ALL DOCTORS HAVE CONSENSUS ON THIS ISSUE.> > > From reading different posts, I have come> across that almost all the > persons have said that BIOPSY is a golden> principal before start of > treatment of Hep-C. They are NOT ready to> accept against this > version at all.> To set the record straight and to clear the> confusion rather

> misconception in the minds of the people, I> hereunder reproduce the > Extract from the Document adopted by > Management of Viral > Hepatitis: A Canadian Consensus Conference> 2003/2004, which is > available on internet and can be down loaded.> Please see page 19 > which is read as under;> Quote> Laboratory assessment prior to treatment> should be include genotype, > HCV RNA level where appropriate, CBC, PT, INR,> Albumin, AST, ALT, > Billirubin, Alkaline Phosphate, HBsAg, > HIV,TSH,ANA,

> GLUCOSE,CREATININE, Serum or urine and> Urinalysis. Additional test > include abdominal ultrasound and ECG( if age> over 50 or history of > cardiac disease). Liver biopsy remains the> most sensitive measure of > disease severity and is recommended BUT IS NOT> MANDATORY PRIOR TO > THE INITIATION OF THERAPY. PATIENTS WITH> GENOTYPE 2 AND 3 > INFECTION WHO HAVE AHIGH LIKELIHOOD OF CURE,> MAY NOT NEED A LIVER > BIOPSY PRIOR TO THE TREATMENT.> > I hope the misconception would be cleared now.> > > > > > > >

> >----------------------------------------------------------------------------> Blab-away for as little as 1�/min. Make> PC-to-Phone Calls using Messenger with Voice.> > > > > > jwf2> W Fraser > MWM Associates, LLC> > Cell: (910) 200-2020> > >

[Guest guest]

If this the position of Labs in the most advanced country of the world, you can well imagine the postion in developing country. This can only be rectified with awareness campaign in the people. it is the people who should put the docs nad labs under pressure. Any how it is a big issue. I would suggest that alternative methods must be used for HCV treatment in stead of completely relying on interferon. Docs and Pharma cos have made most of the people convinced that there is no other treatmeent except interferon irrespective of its deadly side effects. saleemJ Fraser <formerfon@...> wrote: You are exactly right Terry, v/l has nothing to do with severity of disease or liver activity, but it is one of the TWO predictors used statistically to indicate response rates to treatment. Another factor to

consider; as Hillbilly Tim pointed out, the v/l test is not certified by the FDA, and, it cannot measure below 400 parts per ml.....so you never REALLY know if you are clear or not......which is probably why so many people resurge after some period of time. My hepatologist (conservative, member of the board of ALF) once told me that the tests themselves are so variable that he could take my same sample, send it to ten different labs and get ten results over so wide a range and so variable as to be meaningless....fyiterry tennille <t_tennille@...> wrote: I would like to respond to what seems to be arecurring theme , the emphasis on viral load seems asthough some are mistaking it as a gauge of severity ofHCV, it is only used as a benchmark factor forresponce to treatment . As to biopsy, I never had

abiopsy until after my liver transplant, I was too faradvanced in disease for my system too handle it or anytreatment therapies pretransplant . A VL that would bekilling me ,as it was , may not even bring symptoms inanother . --- <annalivia4@...> wrote:> In your case, it sounds like the biopsy was helpful> in making your decision against traditional> treatment, with a less than 20 % chance of> responding. With all the factors and information you> had, you were able to come to a conclusion. Deciding> one way or the other and feeling good about making> an informed decision is a good step in itself. You> got as much information as you could before> deciding, that is a good course of action, in my> opinion.> > Perhaps others would find a biopsy helpful for those> reasons. Another reason a biopsy would be good,> would be if you

found out you were LIKELY to> respond. If you have high chances of sustaining a> response, perhaps you would feel more inclined to do> the interferon etc. Either way, it seems the biopsy> can be useful in making informed decisions.> > > > > > Re: [ ] BIOPSY IS NOT> MANDATORY BEFORE TREATMENT OF HEP-C> > > I think it depends upon what you mean by> "treatment". Obviously anyone who is diagnosed> should immediately incorporate lifestyle changes> related to diet and nutrition, and further> "alternative therapies" are very individual> decisions.> > For me personally,

partially because I was aware> of alternatives as well as the downside risks> associated with "traditional" treatments-> peg/interferon/rib, I believe biopsy is prudent> before taking any radical course- it's the only way> to realistically assess the upside/downside. My> biopsy revealed I was geno 1A, with Stage 1> fibrosis; combined with a v/l of 10mil+ my> hepatologist suggested I had <- 20% chance of a> positive response to the chemo treatment.....I had> HCV est 30 yrs before it was diagnosed, in light of> all these factors I have chosen to pursue> alternative therapies, which have generally> maintained my ALT/AST within "normal" ranges.> > Everybody is different....I am still amazed at the> number of people refuse to even consider> alternatives, have attempted traditional therapy> multiple times with no long term clear, and

in many> cases have suffered additional debillitating effects> of the treatment. C'est las guerre.....> > josaf jiwa <josaf.ml47@...> wrote:> saleem.u saved me from fix. no need biopsy but i> think someone challeng u.> > "saleem.charudhary"> <saleem.charudhary@...> wrote: > DEAR FRIEND, PLEASE READ IT. SALEEM> > > BIOPSY IS NOT MANDATORY BEFORE START OF> TREATMENT OF HEPATITIS C. > ALL DOCTORS HAVE CONSENSUS ON THIS ISSUE.> > > From reading different posts, I have come> across that almost all the > persons have said that BIOPSY is a golden> principal before start

of > treatment of Hep-C. They are NOT ready to> accept against this > version at all.> To set the record straight and to clear the> confusion rather > misconception in the minds of the people, I> hereunder reproduce the > Extract from the Document adopted by > Management of Viral > Hepatitis: A Canadian Consensus Conference> 2003/2004, which is > available on internet and can be down loaded.> Please see page 19 > which is read as under;> Quote> Laboratory assessment prior to

treatment> should be include genotype, > HCV RNA level where appropriate, CBC, PT, INR,> Albumin, AST, ALT, > Billirubin, Alkaline Phosphate, HBsAg, > HIV,TSH,ANA, > GLUCOSE,CREATININE, Serum or urine and> Urinalysis. Additional test > include abdominal ultrasound and ECG( if age> over 50 or history of > cardiac disease). Liver biopsy remains the> most sensitive measure of > disease severity and is recommended BUT IS NOT> MANDATORY PRIOR TO > THE INITIATION OF THERAPY. PATIENTS WITH> GENOTYPE 2 AND 3 > INFECTION WHO HAVE AHIGH LIKELIHOOD OF

CURE,> MAY NOT NEED A LIVER > BIOPSY PRIOR TO THE TREATMENT.> > I hope the misconception would be cleared now.> > > > > > > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------------> Blab-away for as little as 1�/min. Make> PC-to-Phone Calls using Messenger with Voice.> > > > > > jwf2> W Fraser > MWM Associates, LLC> > Cell: (910) 200-2020> > >

[Guest guest]

there is alot of truth interfurion cooks your liver and keeps the liver from healing itself .your liver is the only orgin able to do this why destroy what is there?

Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

[Guest guest]

It is true your liver can heal but only to a point ,

too much damage and you are screwed . Terry

--- Hillbilly Tim <knoxweb1@...> wrote:

> there is alot of truth interfurion cooks your liver

> and keeps the liver from healing itself .your liver

> is the only orgin able to do this why destroy what

> is there?

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make

> PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at

1 & cent;/min.

Paki

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

TIM, I want to add that even after treatment of interferon, HCV attack again which means it cannot kill the virus. but yes people do get recovered. Now it is up to them as to assess the equation of loss and gain. saleemHillbilly Tim <knoxweb1@...> wrote: there is alot of truth interfurion cooks your liver and keeps the liver from healing itself .your liver is the only orgin able to do this why destroy what is there? Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

[Guest guest]

anna, ifeel guilty of earlier remarks. now you r giving valuable input <annalivia4@...> wrote: It seems that there are a good number of people who decide that they have little odds of "responding" and they do not want to chance the possiblility of serious side effects or harmful long-term effects of interferon treatment. I have never advised anyone that they should take this route, because I would never want anyone to avoid taking something that could cure them. But on the other hand, I wouldn't want to advise them to do a treatment that could cause them unnecessary RISKS against their overall health. I, personally, have not wanted to risk the interferon. I am not saying that is right, but that I feel that for ME, it is the right choice. It is just different for EACH one of us. We need a doctor who knows us well and can advise us well. But we also need to know ourselves well. And weigh it all out to decide what risks we are willing to take. Some people are able to take alternative treatments and "live" with the virus with acceptable levels of health, and are happy doing so. Rather than seeking to eradicate or kill the virus, they are finding ways to "deal" with it and learning how to sustain health DESPITE the virus. I understand, and so do many others the feeling that when you are not likely to respond (due to your genotype etc),

why put yourself through the risks and side effects? That is something I have thought myself... Anyway, thanks for sharing and I wish you the best. Re: [ ] BIOPSY IS NOT MANDATORY BEFORE TREATMENT OF HEP-C FYI, the last number I saw for "positive long term response"(not even sure how that is defined) in the US was 56%, but that number is skewed heavily when genotype and viral load are considered, with a range between 20- 80%. When you are the low number of that spectrum why take the risk, imho.saleem chaudhary <saleem.charudhary@...> wrote: Here " traetment" means interferon therapy Which the medical docs insist upon. In this part of the world, the docs do not ask for biopsy. A few friends in the group were adamant to go for biopsy in every case. This extract from

the consensus conference 2003/2004 is reproduced for the benefits of those who do not go for biopsy. Yes you are right that alternative medicinces are availabl. I myself is using alternative medicinces and those are working, of course you need to change habits more particularly diets. thanks for your input. Othr members are also requested to please share their views for the benefits for other group members. saleemJ Fraser <formerfon@...> wrote: I think it depends upon what you mean by "treatment". Obviously anyone who is diagnosed should immediately incorporate lifestyle changes related to diet and nutrition, and further "alternative therapies" are very individual decisions. For me personally, partially because I was aware of alternatives as well as the downside risks associated

with "traditional" treatments- peg/interferon/rib, I believe biopsy is prudent before taking any radical course- it's the only way to realistically assess the upside/downside. My biopsy revealed I was geno 1A, with Stage 1 fibrosis; combined with a v/l of 10mil+ my hepatologist suggested I had <- 20% chance of a positive response to the chemo treatment.....I had HCV est 30 yrs before it was diagnosed, in light of all these factors I have chosen to pursue alternative therapies, which have generally maintained my ALT/AST within "normal" ranges. Everybody is different....I am still amazed at the number of people refuse to even consider alternatives, have attempted traditional therapy multiple times with no long term clear, and in many cases have suffered additional debillitating effects of the treatment. C'est las guerre.....josaf jiwa <josaf.ml47@...> wrote: saleem.u saved me from fix. no need biopsy but i think someone challeng u."saleem.charudhary" <saleem.charudhary@...> wrote: DEAR FRIEND, PLEASE READ IT. SALEEMBIOPSY IS NOT MANDATORY BEFORE START OF TREATMENT OF HEPATITIS C. ALL DOCTORS HAVE CONSENSUS ON THIS ISSUE.From reading different posts, I have come across that almost all the persons have said that BIOPSY is a golden principal before start of treatment of Hep-C. They are NOT ready to accept against this version at all.To set the record straight and to clear the confusion rather misconception in the minds of the people, I hereunder reproduce the Extract from the Document adopted by Management of Viral Hepatitis: A Canadian

Consensus Conference 2003/2004, which is available on internet and can be down loaded. Please see page 19 which is read as under;QuoteLaboratory assessment prior to treatment should be include genotype, HCV RNA level where appropriate, CBC, PT, INR, Albumin, AST, ALT, Billirubin, Alkaline Phosphate, HBsAg, HIV,TSH,ANA, GLUCOSE,CREATININE, Serum or urine and Urinalysis. Additional test include abdominal ultrasound and ECG( if age over 50 or history of cardiac disease). Liver biopsy remains the most sensitive measure of disease severity and is recommended BUT IS NOT MANDATORY PRIOR TO THE INITIATION OF THERAPY. PATIENTS WITH GENOTYPE 2 AND 3 INFECTION WHO HAVE AHIGH LIKELIHOOD OF CURE, MAY NOT NEED A LIVER BIOPSY PRIOR TO THE TREATMENT.I hope the misconception would be cleared now. Blab-away for as little as

1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Messenger with Voice. jwf2 W Fraser MWM Associates, LLCCell: (910) 200-2020 Fax: (910) 401-1490jwf2@... __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

anna. here i not agree with you. read the document provided by saleem again. <annalivia4@...> wrote: In your case, it sounds like the biopsy was helpful in making your decision against traditional treatment, with a less than 20 % chance of responding. With all the factors and information you had, you were able to come to a conclusion. Deciding one way or the other and feeling good about making an informed decision is a good step in itself. You got as much information as you could before deciding, that is a good course of action, in my opinion. Perhaps others would find a biopsy helpful for those reasons. Another reason a biopsy would be

good, would be if you found out you were LIKELY to respond. If you have high chances of sustaining a response, perhaps you would feel more inclined to do the interferon etc. Either way, it seems the biopsy can be useful in making informed decisions. Re: [ ] BIOPSY IS NOT MANDATORY BEFORE TREATMENT OF HEP-C I think it depends upon what you mean by "treatment". Obviously anyone who is diagnosed should immediately incorporate lifestyle changes related to diet and nutrition, and further "alternative therapies" are very individual decisions. For me personally, partially because I was aware of alternatives as well as the downside risks associated with "traditional" treatments- peg/interferon/rib, I believe biopsy is prudent before taking any radical course- it's the only way to realistically assess the upside/downside. My biopsy revealed I was geno 1A, with Stage 1 fibrosis; combined with a v/l of 10mil+ my hepatologist suggested I had <- 20% chance of a positive response to the chemo treatment.....I had HCV est 30 yrs before it was

diagnosed, in light of all these factors I have chosen to pursue alternative therapies, which have generally maintained my ALT/AST within "normal" ranges. Everybody is different....I am still amazed at the number of people refuse to even consider alternatives, have attempted traditional therapy multiple times with no long term clear, and in many cases have suffered additional debillitating effects of the treatment. C'est las guerre.....josaf jiwa <josaf.ml47@...> wrote: saleem.u saved me from fix. no need biopsy but i think someone challeng u."saleem.charudhary" <saleem.charudhary@...> wrote: DEAR FRIEND, PLEASE READ IT. SALEEMBIOPSY IS NOT MANDATORY

BEFORE START OF TREATMENT OF HEPATITIS C. ALL DOCTORS HAVE CONSENSUS ON THIS ISSUE.From reading different posts, I have come across that almost all the persons have said that BIOPSY is a golden principal before start of treatment of Hep-C. They are NOT ready to accept against this version at all.To set the record straight and to clear the confusion rather misconception in the minds of the people, I hereunder reproduce the Extract from the Document adopted by Management of Viral Hepatitis: A Canadian Consensus Conference 2003/2004, which is available on internet and can be down loaded. Please see page 19 which is read as under;QuoteLaboratory assessment prior to treatment should be include genotype, HCV RNA level where appropriate, CBC, PT, INR, Albumin, AST, ALT, Billirubin, Alkaline Phosphate, HBsAg, HIV,TSH,ANA, GLUCOSE,CREATININE, Serum or urine and

Urinalysis. Additional test include abdominal ultrasound and ECG( if age over 50 or history of cardiac disease). Liver biopsy remains the most sensitive measure of disease severity and is recommended BUT IS NOT MANDATORY PRIOR TO THE INITIATION OF THERAPY. PATIENTS WITH GENOTYPE 2 AND 3 INFECTION WHO HAVE AHIGH LIKELIHOOD OF CURE, MAY NOT NEED A LIVER BIOPSY PRIOR TO THE TREATMENT.I hope the misconception would be cleared now. Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Messenger with Voice. jwf2 W Fraser MWM Associates, LLCCell: (910) 200-2020

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anna, why doc would advise biopsy. were the docs crazy who said in 2003/04 conferece that it is not MANDATORY. MAY BE THEY WANT TO MINT MONEY THROUGH BIOPSY <annalivia4@...> wrote: This is useful to know about. It seems to me that if a person knows they want to try the interferon treatment, they may not choose to get the biopsy. But, I think the doctor would still advise it. If you know you don't want to do the treatment, then biopsy would not be recommended, since it wont "help" you if you are not doing the treatment anyway. I have not done a

biopsy, myself. Since I decided not to pursue traditional treatment. If I was considering treatment I would do the biopsy first to make sure I had good chances of "responding." Thanks for the info, I am adding it to my file of info on biopsy. [ ] BIOPSY IS NOT MANDATORY BEFORE TREATMENT OF HEP-C DEAR FRIEND, PLEASE READ IT. SALEEMBIOPSY IS NOT MANDATORY BEFORE START OF TREATMENT OF HEPATITIS C. ALL DOCTORS HAVE CONSENSUS ON THIS ISSUE.From reading different posts, I have come across that almost all the persons have said that BIOPSY is a golden principal before start of treatment of Hep-C. They are NOT ready to accept against this version at all.To set the record straight and to clear the confusion rather misconception in the minds of the people, I hereunder reproduce the Extract from the Document adopted by Management of Viral Hepatitis: A Canadian

Consensus Conference 2003/2004, which is available on internet and can be down loaded. Please see page 19 which is read as under;QuoteLaboratory assessment prior to treatment should be include genotype, HCV RNA level where appropriate, CBC, PT, INR, Albumin, AST, ALT, Billirubin, Alkaline Phosphate, HBsAg, HIV,TSH,ANA, GLUCOSE,CREATININE, Serum or urine and Urinalysis. Additional test include abdominal ultrasound and ECG( if age over 50 or history of cardiac disease). Liver biopsy remains the most sensitive measure of disease severity and is recommended BUT IS NOT MANDATORY PRIOR TO THE INITIATION OF THERAPY. PATIENTS WITH GENOTYPE 2 AND 3 INFECTION WHO HAVE AHIGH LIKELIHOOD OF CURE, MAY NOT NEED A LIVER BIOPSY PRIOR TO THE TREATMENT.I hope the misconception would be cleared now.

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