Re: Question for Bob K and Andy

[Guest guest]

Karolyn,

> I would like to ask either or both of you what your stand is on the

> mind/body connection. (which is getting more and more support from

> the scientific and medical community as time and research goes on.)

>

<<<<

Well I guess it depends how broad a brush you want to use. Pain is a topic that the mind is intricately involved especally in chronic non-specific (i.e. no know etiology) cases such as back pain. One of the reasons so many placebo effects are noted to work in this area. As far as having any effect on "real" disease, cancer and hepatitis for example, you can think your getting better all you want but you aren't! What support from the medical community are you talking about? Do you have any examples we can discuss or should limit our discussion too?

>>>>

>

> How about the power of prayer? (which has been found in studies to

> profoundly effect the health of people who do not even know they are

> being prayed for).

>

<<<<

The studies conducted to date do not show that at all. Quite the opposite they show that there is no difference if a person is prayed for or not. Look at some of the recent studies on breast cancer patients. Do you have any articles supporting the conclusion you stated? What if someone was praying for someone to be sick and die...is there evidence that this also works?

regards,

BobK

[Guest guest]

Karolyn,

Your question is indeed an interesting one. How are these connections

measured? Do they pray for one group and give the other groups

placebo prayers. Do folks like Popoff heal people? Exactly what

is prayer? If I pray to the invisible cloud being, will he/she/it

actually hear me and cure someone.

As it stands, I really have no stand on your question. Is there a

stand you would wish me to take?

The only real stand I have is to ensure that those suffering from HCV

have the ability to receive unbiased information that is not slanted

toward some folk's hate of the scientific proven medicine.

Case in point, this day someone took something you wrote and used the

history you provided to infer that someone had died because of " game

of roulette/TX..... " . Then this person suggested they were innocently

just quoting you. This is not the first time they have used a persons

passing to create an illusion that TX was responsible for someone's

demise. In fact in one incident they accused me of murdering this

person. How sad and low can folks get? Very sad.

andy

> I would like to ask either or both of you what your stand is on the

> mind/body connection. (which is getting more and more support from

> the scientific and medical community as time and research goes on.)

> How about the power of prayer? (which has been found in studies to

> profoundly effect the health of people who do not even know they

are

> being prayed for).

>

> Karolyn

[Guest guest]

Bob, Read Dr. Weil's book " Spontaneous Healing. " I'm sorry I cannot

quote specifics on reports I've read. I am not as organized or

cerebral as you. I know that I have read the reports on prayer,

Contrary to what you might think, I'm not making it up. Also, prayer

doesn't work for evil; that is, unless you want someone's suffering

to end and pray for an end of life to end suffering. I do know what

is in my heart and in my gut.

Love & Blessings to you. Karolyn

>

[Guest guest]

Weil has an interesting knack of adding showbiz to his rap.

You might find something along the lines of " The Holographic

Universe " may shed some light on the ideas you have mentioned. Weil

on the other hand, is an interesting gentleman who does pose some

interesting questions, unfortunately most of his observations are

personal anecdotes and his finding are just an opinion. I personally

find many who advocate in the pop medicine field have similar traits,

which are the marketing of books or herbal remedies for various

maladies. I'm sure that when these protocols or theories are proven

they will find their opinions being used in science based proven

mainstream medicine.

A question for you Karolyn. How does one tell the difference from

those whose only concern is personal greed pitching products that are

useless and those who may have a product that may be beneficial?

> >

[Guest guest]

Andy - I would tend to go with products that people I know have taken

with good results. I also look at studies and length of time in use.

As far as the proponents of any type of products of forms of therapy,

I usually go by general reputation and acceptance in the mainstream

unless a particular person has benefited someone I know. Now take

Jay, for example. He is a fellow hepper who has done an amazing

amount of research, knows many knowledgeable in the field, has been

in the natural health field for many years and has helped people I

know. I trust Jay explicitly. Have you read " Spontaneous Healing " ?

Dr. Weil is extremely well-received and is not a kook who denies the

value of traditional medicine. Rather, he is a doctor who looks to

heal the body rather than treat symptoms. Same with Dr. Mercola, who

is a DO, although Dr. Mercola is a bit more militant. However, I

trust Dr. Mercola because his observations don't just come out of his

hat. Of course these guys are making money. Isn't that the American

way? I wish I could make money by helping people. As a matter of

fact, my next move may be in that direction. You see, as naive as it

may seem, I still believe in man's fundamental goodness. Evil and

badness are just so much more dynamic shall we say?

Love & Blessings, Karolyn

> > >

[Guest guest]

Mr Mercola can afford to be more militant, as he is not a Medical

Doctor.Most doctors sell their professional services, not books or

products. I know Jay quite well and have never questioned his ethics

or objectivity. There are others, now apparently gone, that would

have you believe that this is not the case.

How would one who was seeking information weed out the good from the

bad in the herbal field if they were to go that route. There are

hundreds of folks on the net willing to hand out a cure for a 5 or 6

hundred a month. What if they read in this forum that someone

guaranteed they would be HCV free by October 6th. Try to look at this

from the perspective of someone just diagnosed with HCV. Making this

disease seem simple as all you have to do is take this or that and

poof, it's gone is not reality for most. Many are not educated health

care consumers and are looking for the pros and cons different

therapy options.

Are you aware that Japan, Korea, Singapore and many other Nations

licence herbalists. This is to ensure that one doesn't go out and buy

a blender and set up shop. This is the situation now in the States.

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Andy,

All I have to say is that when I was newly diagnosed, I went to the

web to find information and was thriled to find so much at my

fngertips. I looked to other heppers for info and do not believe I

have ever been steered wrong despite any mudslinging that might have

been usedagainst some of these people. My personal experience has

been very good with all the products I have used. My health is

excellent. I am not cured, as a matter of fact my alt and ast are up

right now, although not significantly. I feel as though this is due

to lack of funding to use some of the supps I was using, stress in my

life and the allergy symptoms I have been having. I have no doubt I

will die of something other than HCV. My advice to anyone new is

always to do their own research and not to just jump on any

bandwagon. We all know that there is no " one-size-fits-all " for this

condition, just like for any other condition, which is a big problem

with traditional medicine. We are not all the same. As far as buying

a blender and setting up shop, when I am in a position to have a

garden, you can bet that I'm going to grown a lot of my own herbs.

And why should I not sell them if I want to? As a matter of fact, we

have nettle growing across the street. If I had gotten a bunch cut in

the spring, I would have sold it to an herbalist. Of course I know

what you're talking about, Andy. There will always be people taking

advantage of others, and in the long run there is really nothing

anyone can do about it. They will continually pop up. That's just the

way it is. Hey, what about the " Drug War " ? Big waste of time and

money.

Karolyn

> > > > >

[Guest guest]

Well, Andy, I guess you just can't stop--sorry group, I tried, but now he just carries his lies about me WITHOUT using my name. Obsession is a scary thing. Of course it is just more lies to suggest I've used anyone's death, now or in the past for any reason. And Andy must be thinking of someone else, for I've never called him a murderer. No matter what the topic, he has to find some reason to refer to me. I'd like to be left alone, and I don't need to sit here and listen to lies posted about me. Sorry group. peace, Satya

[ ] Re: Question for Bob K and Andy

Karolyn,Your question is indeed an interesting one. How are these connections measured? Do they pray for one group and give the other groups placebo prayers. Do folks like Popoff heal people? Exactly what is prayer? If I pray to the invisible cloud being, will he/she/it actually hear me and cure someone. As it stands, I really have no stand on your question. Is there a stand you would wish me to take? The only real stand I have is to ensure that those suffering from HCV have the ability to receive unbiased information that is not slanted toward some folk's hate of the scientific proven medicine. Case in point, this day someone took something you wrote and used the history you provided to infer that someone had died because of "game of roulette/TX.....". Then this person suggested they were innocently just quoting you. This is not the first time they have used a persons passing to create an illusion that TX was responsible for someone's demise. In fact in one incident they accused me of murdering this person. How sad and low can folks get? Very sad.andy> I would like to ask either or both of you what your stand is on the > mind/body connection. (which is getting more and more support from > the scientific and medical community as time and research goes on.) > How about the power of prayer? (which has been found in studies to > profoundly effect the health of people who do not even know they are > being prayed for).> > Karolyn

[Guest guest]

He still refers to me. Obsession. I have never posted a guarantee on anything. I said I will be hep c free by Oct 6. This has to do with affirmations I use in my healing. You twist everything I've ever said here to discredit my character. It's obvious you can't leave me alone-- you are a typical stalker--you just use the internet to stay legal. You don't use my name and think this proves you're not obsessed and not stalking. We can all see thru you, Andy. Why don't you give it up? First you were obsessed with Jeannine, and now it['s me. You are really a sick one. I said I'll stop posting when you quit posting lies about me. You have not stopped. As I wrote the other day, you care nothing about the group's request for dropping your references to me by continuing this negative thread of lies. Satya

[ ] Re: Question for Bob K and Andy

Mr Mercola can afford to be more militant, as he is not a Medical Doctor.Most doctors sell their professional services, not books or products. I know Jay quite well and have never questioned his ethics or objectivity. There are others, now apparently gone, that would have you believe that this is not the case.How would one who was seeking information weed out the good from the bad in the herbal field if they were to go that route. There are hundreds of folks on the net willing to hand out a cure for a 5 or 6 hundred a month. What if they read in this forum that someone guaranteed they would be HCV free by October 6th. Try to look at this from the perspective of someone just diagnosed with HCV. Making this disease seem simple as all you have to do is take this or that and poof, it's gone is not reality for most. Many are not educated health care consumers and are looking for the pros and cons different therapy options. Are you aware that Japan, Korea, Singapore and many other Nations licence herbalists. This is to ensure that one doesn't go out and buy a blender and set up shop. This is the situation now in the States.> > > >

[Guest guest]

Try these words, as you really have lost it!

Main Entry: ob·ses·sion

Pronunciation: äb-'se-sh & n, & b-

Function: noun

Date: 1680

1 : a persistent disturbing preoccupation with an often unreasonable

idea

Main Entry: para·noia

Pronunciation: " par- & -'noi- &

Function: noun

Etymology: New Latin, from Greek, madness, from paranous demented,

from para- + nous mind

Date: circa 1811

1 : a psychosis characterized by systematized delusions of

persecution or grandeur usually without hallucinations

2 : a tendency on the part of an individual or group toward excessive

or irrational suspiciousness and distrustfulness of others

Main Entry: re·al·i·ty

Pronunciation: rE-'a-l & -tE

Function: noun

Inflected Form(s): plural -ties

Date: 1550

1 : the quality or state of being real

2 a (1) : a real event, entity, or state of affairs <his dream became

a reality> (2) : the totality of real things and events <trying to

escape from reality> b : something that is neither derivative nor

dependent but exists necessarily

- in reality : in actual fact

> > > > >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

yup, that's you--obsessed. Still writing to me...Methinks you spend an awful lot of time and attention to my person.. that's called STALKING....

[ ] Re: Question for Bob K and Andy

Try these words, as you really have lost it!Main Entry: ob·ses·sion Pronunciation: äb-'se-sh & n, & b-Function: nounDate: 16801 : a persistent disturbing preoccupation with an often unreasonable ideaMain Entry: para·noia Pronunciation: "par- & -'noi- & Function: nounEtymology: New Latin, from Greek, madness, from paranous demented, from para- + nous mindDate: circa 18111 : a psychosis characterized by systematized delusions of persecution or grandeur usually without hallucinations2 : a tendency on the part of an individual or group toward excessive or irrational suspiciousness and distrustfulness of othersMain Entry: re·al·i·ty Pronunciation: rE-'a-l & -tEFunction: nounInflected Form(s): plural -tiesDate: 15501 : the quality or state of being real2 a (1) : a real event, entity, or state of affairs <his dream became a reality> (2) : the totality of real things and events <trying to escape from reality> b : something that is neither derivative nor dependent but exists necessarily- in reality : in actual fact> > > > >> > >

[Guest guest]

Main Entry: para·noia

Pronunciation: " par- & -'noi- &

Function: noun

Etymology: New Latin, from Greek, madness, from paranous demented,

from para- + nous mind

Date: circa 1811

1 : a psychosis characterized by systematized delusions of

persecution or grandeur usually without hallucinations

> > > > > >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

There are several signs that are good indicators of stalking

behavior. It is also important to consider the intensity of such

behaviors.

1. Persistent phone calls despite being told not to contact in

any form.

2. Waiting at workplace or in neighborhood.

3. Threats.

4. Manipulative behavior (for example: threatening to commit

suicide in order to get a response to such an " emergency " in the form

of contact).

5. Sending written messages: letters, emails, graffiti...

6. Sending gifts from the seemingly " romantic " (flowers and/or

candy) to the bizarre (dog teeth, a bed pan, a blood soaked feather)

(Dietz et al. 1991b).

> > > > > >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

oh goodie! I just LOVE flowers and candy!!

[ ] Re: Question for Bob K and Andy

There are several signs that are good indicators of stalking behavior. It is also important to consider the intensity of such behaviors. 1. Persistent phone calls despite being told not to contact in any form. 2. Waiting at workplace or in neighborhood. 3. Threats. 4. Manipulative behavior (for example: threatening to commit suicide in order to get a response to such an "emergency" in the form of contact). 5. Sending written messages: letters, emails, graffiti... 6. Sending gifts from the seemingly "romantic" (flowers and/or candy) to the bizarre (dog teeth, a bed pan, a blood soaked feather) (Dietz et al. 1991b). > > > > > >> > > > > >

[Guest guest]

> I would like to ask either or both of you what your stand is on the

> mind/body connection. (which is getting more and more support from

> the scientific and medical community as time and research goes on.)

> How about the power of prayer? (which has been found in studies to

> profoundly effect the health of people who do not even know they

are

> being prayed for).

>

> Karolyn

Power of prayer found wanting in hospital trial

By Petre, Religion Correspondent

(Filed: 15/10/2003)

The biggest scientific experiment on prayer has failed to find any

evidence that it helps to heal the sick.

Doctors in the United States will today disclose that heart patients

who were prayed for by groups of strangers recovered from surgery at

the same rate as those who were not.

The three-year study, led by cardiologists from Duke University

Medical Centre in North Carolina, involved 750 patients in nine

hospitals and 12 prayer groups around the world, from Christians in

Manchester to Buddhists in Nepal.

Earlier, less extensive, research suggested prayer could have a

measurably beneficial effect.

But the experiment, which will be detailed in a BBC2 Everyman

documentary to be broadcast next week, was criticised as crude by

Church leaders. The Bishop of Durham, the Rt Rev Tom ,

said: " Prayer is not a penny-in-the-slot machine. You can't just put

in a coin and get out a chocolate.

" This is like setting an exam for God to see if God will pass it or

not. "

He said both the Old and New Testaments said " very clearly " that you

must not put God to the test. The new research, dubbed the Mantra

project, was led by Dr Mitch Krucoff, a cardiologist, whose pilot

studies had led him to believe that prayer could have measurably

beneficial effects.

Over three years, 750 patients awaiting angioplasty, a procedure to

clear obstructions from their arteries, were recruited for the

experiment.

Names selected at random by a computer were sent to the 12 prayer

groups, who began praying immediately for their recovery. Neither the

hospital staff nor the patients and their relatives knew who was

being prayed for.

The prayer groups included American Christian mothers, nuns in a

Carmelite convent in Baltimore, Sufi Muslims, Buddhist monks in Nepal

and English doctors and medical students in Manchester. Prayers were

even e-mailed to Jerusalem and placed in the Wailing Wall.

An analysis of the results found that there were no significant

differences in the recovery and health of the patients who were

prayed for and those who were not.

The Rev Francis, professor of practical theology at the

University of Wales, said two major studies, in 1988 and 1999, had

found that prayer had a beneficial effect.

" In medical research one expects divergent results, so it is

premature to affirm or dismiss the power of prayer in healing, " he

said. " But if the pharmaceutical industry was getting these sorts of

results they would be investing a great of money in research. "

Information appearing on telegraph.co.uk is the copyright of

Telegraph Group Limited and must not be reproduced in any medium

without licence. For the full copyright statement see Copyright

[Guest guest]

Andy - You know what? It doesn't matter to me what you might find

(and I bet you loved finding this). I still believe!

" But if the pharmaceutical industry was getting these sorts of

results they would be investing a great of money in research. "

Love & BLESSINGS, Karolyn

> > I would like to ask either or both of you what your stand is on

the

> > mind/body connection. (which is getting more and more support

from

> > the scientific and medical community as time and research goes

on.)

> > How about the power of prayer? (which has been found in studies

to

> > profoundly effect the health of people who do not even know they

> are

> > being prayed for).

> >

> > Karolyn

>

>

> Power of prayer found wanting in hospital trial

> By Petre, Religion Correspondent

> (Filed: 15/10/2003)

>

>

> The biggest scientific experiment on prayer has failed to find any

> evidence that it helps to heal the sick.

>

> Doctors in the United States will today disclose that heart

patients

> who were prayed for by groups of strangers recovered from surgery

at

> the same rate as those who were not.

>

> The three-year study, led by cardiologists from Duke University

> Medical Centre in North Carolina, involved 750 patients in nine

> hospitals and 12 prayer groups around the world, from Christians in

> Manchester to Buddhists in Nepal.

>

> Earlier, less extensive, research suggested prayer could have a

> measurably beneficial effect.

>

> But the experiment, which will be detailed in a BBC2 Everyman

> documentary to be broadcast next week, was criticised as crude by

> Church leaders. The Bishop of Durham, the Rt Rev Tom ,

> said: " Prayer is not a penny-in-the-slot machine. You can't just

put

> in a coin and get out a chocolate.

>

> " This is like setting an exam for God to see if God will pass it or

> not. "

>

> He said both the Old and New Testaments said " very clearly " that

you

> must not put God to the test. The new research, dubbed the Mantra

> project, was led by Dr Mitch Krucoff, a cardiologist, whose pilot

> studies had led him to believe that prayer could have measurably

> beneficial effects.

>

> Over three years, 750 patients awaiting angioplasty, a procedure to

> clear obstructions from their arteries, were recruited for the

> experiment.

>

> Names selected at random by a computer were sent to the 12 prayer

> groups, who began praying immediately for their recovery. Neither

the

> hospital staff nor the patients and their relatives knew who was

> being prayed for.

>

> The prayer groups included American Christian mothers, nuns in a

> Carmelite convent in Baltimore, Sufi Muslims, Buddhist monks in

Nepal

> and English doctors and medical students in Manchester. Prayers

were

> even e-mailed to Jerusalem and placed in the Wailing Wall.

>

> An analysis of the results found that there were no significant

> differences in the recovery and health of the patients who were

> prayed for and those who were not.

>

> The Rev Francis, professor of practical theology at the

> University of Wales, said two major studies, in 1988 and 1999, had

> found that prayer had a beneficial effect.

>

> " In medical research one expects divergent results, so it is

> premature to affirm or dismiss the power of prayer in healing, " he

> said. " But if the pharmaceutical industry was getting these sorts

of

> results they would be investing a great of money in research. "

>

> Information appearing on telegraph.co.uk is the copyright of

> Telegraph Group Limited and must not be reproduced in any medium

> without licence. For the full copyright statement see Copyright

[Guest guest]

Andy, please, get help! You aren't right in the head...!

[ ] Re: Question for Bob K and Andy

Gee I was under the distinct impression that you had gone. How does it feel to be cured of HCV. As I remember October 6th was the date.From what I can see all many of the folks over at Jovo are experiencing problems. Great formula. Tell everyone that everyone is just fine, then complain that everyone has found greater liver damage and for one person very swift liver damage. It seems these herbal treatments are actually increasing the speed of liver damage from my viewpoint, but then again what do I know as I'm just a pharmer. Keep taking the Cohesh and please disregard the warning that it may cause autoimmune hepatitis, after all you a certified something or other.My dear…I don't know you, so I can't comment as to how I feel about you. I do know that you have in the past, promoted quack medicine that has actually harmed people. In that vein I can say that I am not pleased with many of your unfounded opinions as they may hurt people rather than help them. Just reading this post of yours would suggest that you need to get a life and actually practice some of the beliefs you promote. Check out the purple flame…it may help you relax and give you a much better perspective on what is really important, as I feel you have missed the boat by years.> > > > The power of prayer can work wanders.My situation is so bad > > that > > > thats about > > > > all I can rely on. Hold fast to your faith> > > > Hugs and Kisses.......Aimiee> > > > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

I suppose it's okay to call someone a fraud though. I call a spade a spade, thus the term "jerk". Two can play.

[ ] Re: Question for Bob K and Andy

I really don't lay in wait...just feel it is of interest to expose those who promote fraud. This is not what one would call negativity and lies. I would lean in the direction of a public service for heppers.So did you clear on Oct 6th? I'd wager big money you didn't. If my conclusion is correct are you now going to refute all the info you have posted? I would bet big money that you won't. No doubt you will again use the scare tactics that you and your ilk are famous for, to support your unproven theories.HCV is a very dangerous disease. Playing games with herbal concoction may or may not hurt you. To this date no one has put forward one shred of evidence based research to back up any claim that herbal concoctions can actually help anyone with HCV. This is not a lie or being negative. It is reality.Bottom line is when you respond by demeaning someone with a word such as "jerk" you have in a sense forfeited the debate as the emperor has no clothes, and you know it.> > > > > The power of prayer can work wanders.My situation is so > bad > > > that > > > > thats about > > > > > all I can rely on. Hold fast to your faith> > > > > Hugs and Kisses.......Aimiee> > > > > > > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Nothing would drive him from this group in spite of the fact that no one can stand him.

[ ] Re: Question for Bob K and Andy

I really don't lay in wait...just feel it is of interest to expose those who promote fraud. This is not what one would call negativity and lies. I would lean in the direction of a public service for heppers.So did you clear on Oct 6th? I'd wager big money you didn't. If my conclusion is correct are you now going to refute all the info you have posted? I would bet big money that you won't. No doubt you will again use the scare tactics that you and your ilk are famous for, to support your unproven theories.HCV is a very dangerous disease. Playing games with herbal concoction may or may not hurt you. To this date no one has put forward one shred of evidence based research to back up any claim that herbal concoctions can actually help anyone with HCV. This is not a lie or being negative. It is reality.Bottom line is when you respond by demeaning someone with a word such as "jerk" you have in a sense forfeited the debate as the emperor has no clothes, and you know it.> > > > > The power of prayer can work wanders.My situation is so > bad > > > that > > > > thats about > > > > > all I can rely on. Hold fast to your faith> > > > > Hugs and Kisses.......Aimiee> > > > > > > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Me and my "ilk".....hmmmm. that must mean Karolyn, but then you wouldn't dare call HER a fraud. You figure you can get away with it with one person, just to put your point across. To get your view on the board.. If you kept calling EVERYONE on this group, who espouse my same views (natural medicines as a viable therapy for hep c), frauds, you'd be driven off the group!

[ ] Re: Question for Bob K and Andy

I really don't lay in wait...just feel it is of interest to expose those who promote fraud. This is not what one would call negativity and lies. I would lean in the direction of a public service for heppers.So did you clear on Oct 6th? I'd wager big money you didn't. If my conclusion is correct are you now going to refute all the info you have posted? I would bet big money that you won't. No doubt you will again use the scare tactics that you and your ilk are famous for, to support your unproven theories.HCV is a very dangerous disease. Playing games with herbal concoction may or may not hurt you. To this date no one has put forward one shred of evidence based research to back up any claim that herbal concoctions can actually help anyone with HCV. This is not a lie or being negative. It is reality.Bottom line is when you respond by demeaning someone with a word such as "jerk" you have in a sense forfeited the debate as the emperor has no clothes, and you know it.> > > > > The power of prayer can work wanders.My situation is so > bad > > > that > > > > thats about > > > > > all I can rely on. Hold fast to your faith> > > > > Hugs and Kisses.......Aimiee> > > > > > > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Satya...means truth

If anyone promotes, profits from the suffering of those impacted from

HCV using the methods you and your friend Jeanine use...then they are

also frauds, as you are. Anyone who promotes, sells, profits from any

group of people with chronic illnesses are frauds and the lowest of

the low. Would you like me to get more specific? If Karolyn or anyone

else were to promote Flanagan or London/Geiser as you have, then if

it I and no doubt many others would would have little hesitation in

using the term fraud.

I am unable to understand why you wish to hang around with us as you

have cured yourself from this disease. October 6th was the target

date was it not. Or do you have a strategy to weasel out you latest

bogus claim.

As for your fan club of one, SunflowerIII, what can one say, as it

says it all.

Have a great weekend, as I know I will.

> > > > > > The power of prayer can work wanders.My

situation

> is so

> > bad

> > > > that

> > > > > thats about

> > > > > > all I can rely on. Hold fast to your faith

> > > > > > Hugs and Kisses.......Aimiee

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

[Guest guest]

Hey Gang,

Out of all the Hep C groups I had to pick from {Mind you, I'm a new internet user} I picked this one. My purpose in joining this group was to have some folks close by who could keep me from feeling so damned alone and miserable. I've logged on for 4 days and have seen nothing but vicious hatred and immaturity. Ofcourse we are all different but we are forgetting about how we are all the same.I'm leaving this group. I need mature and positive input in my life. I will be praying that those of us who are hurting and need a friendly and supportive E-group to go to will not repeat my mistake and choose this group. I will also pray that the Lord will see fit to help you.....whether you believe in him or not

Goodbye and God Bless,

Aimiee

[Guest guest]

> Nothing would drive him from this group in spite of the fact that

no one can stand him.

Dera Crofts,

This is the sum total of you participation on this list. I fail to

find the word Hepatitis C anywhere in any of your posts.

If I were a mental health professional, I might suggest that you get

some badly needed help, as you don't have HCV and your claim to being

associated to HCV is some BS story about your Mother and Ribavirin.

Main Entry: ob·ses·sive

Pronunciation: äb-'se-siv, & b-

Function: adjective

Date: 1901

1 a : tending to cause obsession b : excessive often to an

unreasonable degree

2 : of, relating to, or characterized by obsession : deriving from

obsession

- obsessive noun

- ob·ses·sive·ly adverb

- ob·ses·sive·ness noun

Figures, you are not andy after all, just his sidekick….Well, if we

all leave him alone all he will be able to contribute are those

stupid anti-natural health studies he finds in mad magazine.

If no one shows up for andys war he'll have to start devouring

himself....

just some thoughts...

If anyone is a clown in this group it's you--BOZO

Knock your shit off, if you know how--it seems you are so much like

andy that you must be an amputated twin.

Andy, please, get help! You aren't right in the head...!

please, you HAD to post how it gave you such a chuckle to see

paranoia abounding. yes, " BOB KAUFMAN " " andyarundel " or whomever you

are, you do indeed GET OFF ON THE MISERY you create.

you clearly get off on creating the paranoid atmosphere. please stop

and leave it alone. people are sick. people are tired. this is

nonsense!

Satya: WARNING. Bob Kaufman is probably Andy. Believe me, he gets

his kicks by upsetting you.

D

HERE HERE!!!! Why is there nothing but garbage here when andy

speaks? He gets off on us jabbering on about his assholliness

I think it is pathetic that any person here should have to defend or

justify their choices for their own health and treatment. I think

it's ludicrous that an ignoramus like ANDY or whatever his name is,

should put anyone on the defensive. Forget about him--think of the

stress and frustration he is causing in those who are working to

overcome stress and all other " dis-ease " causing behaviors!

Arguments and discord are his Bread and Butter....Surely there is

another list somewhere, or perhaps one that can be started that will

encourage everyone, have healthy discussions and informed messages---

I've been around here for a few years now and andy only speaks up to

trash Jeanine or Satya--who he has now lumped up with Jeanine, just

as he did to me when I uncovered the fact that he was carrying on

whole threads of dialogue with HIMSELF in order to convince people he

was right. The guy is off his nut. Toxic, you know, needs a high

colonic.

In any case, I am sure he will now attack me, say something ugly

about my mother etc....I know him by now. I only worry about people

just tuning in....well, please listen with an open mind! And though

it seems almost impossible to resist facing off with him, try to

resist and know what you are doing is the RIGHT thing for YOU!

D

you make yourself sick with your stinkin thinking

You're one of the reasons I stay tuned to this site, Satya. I've put

up with a lot from certain people, as I know you have too, I dont

even want to dignify them with a name--the important thing is that

you are feeling good--you're not afraid to talk about it--and we all

can make up our own minds.

D

shut your festering gob.

[Guest guest]

I still don't get you, Andy. I don't sell any products. I just take 'em. I don't promote anyone (who is London/Geiser??). I never have used the word "cure" so again you are bogus. Yes I plan on healing myself and protecting my already wonderful quality of life with a natural protocol if possible. I don't give myself a timetable, although I have to keep affirming to my system that I am always getting healthier and healthier to the point where my body will take care of the disease on it's own, with an immune system which will be equipped to do the job. At my stage of the disease, I can afford to wait for what's coming on the horizon, as far as a western cure. Also, it's very possible I've been infected for a long time (but don't know for sure, I do know I'm 4a genotype). If I have been, it would only make sense that because the disease is so firmly established, it would take some time to completely heal (it with natural methods), since natural medicines work so much slower than tx, and are much more gentle in their action.......Oct. 6 is when my first round with the Ravensara was completed. I was planning on becoming undetectable using my natural protocol which includes this, and under better circumstances, I'd have had confidence in clearing. yes that's true. You have to think (affirm) positively to achieve a positive result. I do believe that you can affect your body by positive thoughts, since body, mind, and spirit are interconnected. .....But as I also stated, I have been going thru some pretty heavy legal trouble, family and other personal difficulties, etc. lately, and have overtaxed my immune system, producing some auto-immune symptoms. So I don't really think that I have cleared this time around. I know my body very well, and I don't feel, intuitively, that I'm cleared at this time. I will say, however, that my year using this therapy has yielded wonderful results as far as improving my quality of life and energy level, as well as lowering my viral load and keeping my ALT and AST at normal levels. Even my insomnia, one of my worst symptoms, has decreased dramatically using natural formulas (TCM). I feel the treatments have protected my health, and all my tests indicate that this is the case. My symptoms have been kept at bay 95% of the time, which was not the case before this year of treatment. I have already started doing a second round. I will post the results of my latest tests when they arrive. If I'm not cleared I will just keep trying, just as people on tx do. Not everyone clears their first time with tx either--and andy, I have no anxiety concerning how long I will have to keep treating myself--this would be counter-productive---my natural treatments have no bad side effects and are keeping me well for now...I DO view the new western treatments posted about here as of late with great promise, and if I am still not clear by the time they come up with something SAFE and EFFECTIVE, I will be one of the first to sign up for the "cure", as I'm not crazy about living with Hepatitis C. What I AM crazy about, however, is the wonderful quality of life I enjoy at the present moment, and not risking my present state of good health by taking something that, for one, is not crucial at my stage of the disease, and two, might just produce permanent side effects that would jeopardize the wonderful level of health I now enjoy... And andy, although I'd never "hang around" with you, personally, as I don't think many of us here would, I never left the group---I do enjoy using you for your information. SOME of it is useful.....As for Grace and Claudine, both of whom favor tx, at least for themselves, I have great respect for them, as their posts are always worth reading,--- and as their posts do not consist of bashing, I consider them to be balanced, respectful and informative. Thank you for wishing me a nice weekend, andy. It was wonderful, as I had tons of energy and stamina to lead my drumming group in the show Kusika put on Saturday for all the families of the rich kids attending College--I even surprised myself, since lead drumming is so physically demanding. On Sunday the College thanked us with a beautiful catered brunch, and the rest of the day I enjoyed outside with my dogs, hanging with my boyfriend carving pumpkins, and doing yardwork. It was a beautiful autumn weekend, thanks. Blessings and Light, Satya

[ ] Re: Question for Bob K and Andy

Satya...means truthIf anyone promotes, profits from the suffering of those impacted from HCV using the methods you and your friend Jeanine use...then they are also frauds, as you are. Anyone who promotes, sells, profits from any group of people with chronic illnesses are frauds and the lowest of the low. Would you like me to get more specific? If Karolyn or anyone else were to promote Flanagan or London/Geiser as you have, then if it I and no doubt many others would would have little hesitation in using the term fraud.I am unable to understand why you wish to hang around with us as you have cured yourself from this disease. October 6th was the target date was it not. Or do you have a strategy to weasel out you latest bogus claim. As for your fan club of one, SunflowerIII, what can one say, as it says it all.Have a great weekend, as I know I will.> > > > > > The power of prayer can work wanders.My situation > is so > > bad > > > > that > > > > > thats about > > > > > > all I can rely on. Hold fast to your faith> > > > > > Hugs and Kisses.......Aimiee> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

methinks you are the next target, Sunni......

[ ] Re: Question for Bob K and Andy

> Nothing would drive him from this group in spite of the fact that no one can stand him.Dera Crofts,This is the sum total of you participation on this list. I fail to find the word Hepatitis C anywhere in any of your posts. If I were a mental health professional, I might suggest that you get some badly needed help, as you don't have HCV and your claim to being associated to HCV is some BS story about your Mother and Ribavirin. Main Entry: ob·ses·sive Pronunciation: äb-'se-siv, & b-Function: adjectiveDate: 19011 a : tending to cause obsession b : excessive often to an unreasonable degree2 : of, relating to, or characterized by obsession : deriving from obsession- obsessive noun- ob·ses·sive·ly adverb- ob·ses·sive·ness nounFigures, you are not andy after all, just his sidekick….Well, if we all leave him alone all he will be able to contribute are those stupid anti-natural health studies he finds in mad magazine.If no one shows up for andys war he'll have to start devouring himself....just some thoughts...If anyone is a clown in this group it's you--BOZOKnock your shit off, if you know how--it seems you are so much like andy that you must be an amputated twin. Andy, please, get help! You aren't right in the head...!please, you HAD to post how it gave you such a chuckle to see paranoia abounding. yes, "BOB KAUFMAN" "andyarundel" or whomever you are, you do indeed GET OFF ON THE MISERY you create.you clearly get off on creating the paranoid atmosphere. please stop and leave it alone. people are sick. people are tired. this is nonsense!Satya: WARNING. Bob Kaufman is probably Andy. Believe me, he gets his kicks by upsetting you. DHERE HERE!!!! Why is there nothing but garbage here when andy speaks? He gets off on us jabbering on about his asshollinessI think it is pathetic that any person here should have to defend or justify their choices for their own health and treatment. I think it's ludicrous that an ignoramus like ANDY or whatever his name is, should put anyone on the defensive. Forget about him--think of the stress and frustration he is causing in those who are working to overcome stress and all other "dis-ease" causing behaviors! Arguments and discord are his Bread and Butter....Surely there is another list somewhere, or perhaps one that can be started that will encourage everyone, have healthy discussions and informed messages---I've been around here for a few years now and andy only speaks up to trash Jeanine or Satya--who he has now lumped up with Jeanine, just as he did to me when I uncovered the fact that he was carrying on whole threads of dialogue with HIMSELF in order to convince people he was right. The guy is off his nut. Toxic, you know, needs a high colonic.In any case, I am sure he will now attack me, say something ugly about my mother etc....I know him by now. I only worry about people just tuning in....well, please listen with an open mind! And though it seems almost impossible to resist facing off with him, try to resist and know what you are doing is the RIGHT thing for YOU! Dyou make yourself sick with your stinkin thinkingYou're one of the reasons I stay tuned to this site, Satya. I've put up with a lot from certain people, as I know you have too, I dont even want to dignify them with a name--the important thing is that you are feeling good--you're not afraid to talk about it--and we all can make up our own minds.D shut your festering gob.