T3 and T4

[Guest guest]

there is no one size fits all...but if you don't feel well with them in

the medium range...doesn't something need a little tweaking? extra T4?

other hormones? adrenals?

cindi

>

> When my T3 is over 420, I am a crazy person and when it is low, I am

> not much better. When I was first diagnosed my T4 was in the dirt and

> T3 real high. So it seems like I am the opposite. Could this be true

> for some people. Now my levels are in the medium range and I feel bad

> but not as bad when I was first diagnosed. Any ideas

[Guest guest]

We had a discussion on this kind of conversion issue on the Graves

Support board. I'll try to go back and see what we talked about, but

I remember Selenium being mentioned as it helps with conversion. I

think there were adrenal issues that could help cause it as well, but

let me go back and see what I can find. It does happen tho....

E (Ellen in Missouri)

> > >

> > > What should the free T3 be? Mine is 269 (230-420)

> >

>

[Guest guest]

This is a case history on thyroidmanager that talks about elevated T3

in the presence of normal or subnormal T4. I'll keep looking. It

would be helpful to have a clue what your TSH was and the ranges.

E

40+ yr old female

History of hypOthyroid

Been on replacement hormone for over 10 years

Given herbal treatment for tiredness for 1-2 mths then stopped.

Several months later started to have mild hyperthyroid symptoms and

T3 related hyperthyroid state

In the past 15 months, free-thyroid picture remains very stable with

fT4 16-19 (10-24), fT3 6.2-11 (2.5-5.5pmol/L), TSH <0.08. Thyroid

just bearly palpable, no goitre.

Thyroglobulin <1ug/L (<55)(DPC Immulite 2000) with antithyroglobulin

antibody 259 IU/ml (EIA) (<100), antithyroid peroxidase 300 IU/ml

(EIA) (<100). Thyroid 99m Tc pertechnetate scan - Asymmetry R > L,

right large hot nodule with left lobe diffusely warm, i.e. no

suppressionm.

Denies ongoing use of T4 or T3 replacement since mid 2005. Despite

tremor and tachycardia found and explanation of cardiac/osteoporosis

risk - patient feels good in hyperthyroid state and refuse any kinds

of treatment offer.

RESPONSE: I think a more likely diagnosis is autoimmune thyroid

disease, which began with hypothyroidism, but now manifests itself

as very mild hyperthyroidism. The low TG is unreliable in the

presence of the antibodies. A toxic nodule should be obvious on

physical or Ultrasound, since it typically would need to be 3 cm in

size to produce hyperthyroidism. Having both AITD and a toxic nodule

is possible, but a unitary diagnosis is usually better than two. The

elevated T3 and normal T4 fits with the output of an auto-immune-

damaged gland, and could not easily be duplicated by a pill unless

the patient took a special mixture of T4 and T3. (This last

statement is conditioned on what would happen to T4 and T3 when

taking such pills in the presence of a normal gland, and I can not

be sure what would occur in the presence of a nodule or

thyroiditis.) The scan and uptake also argue against a toxic nodule,

and fit with AITD (Hashitoxicosis?) L De Groot, MD

http://www.thyroidmanager.org/experts2.htm

> > >

> > > What should the free T3 be? Mine is 269 (230-420)

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I am supplementing with selenium and medrol for adrenals, iodoral and

several other things.

Look forward to hearing back from you

Ellen

> > > >

> > > > What should the free T3 be? Mine is 269 (230-420)

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Are you on an Anti-thyroid drug of any kind? Do you have any eye

trouble or throat trouble? Have you had any antibody or autoimmune

tests run? Other symptoms? palps, hot/cold/ anything else?

E

Now my levels are in the medium range and I feel bad

> but not as bad when I was first diagnosed. Any ideas

>

>

[Guest guest]

My Labs

11/30/06

TSH 2.63

Free T3 269 (ref. 230-420)

Free T4 1.2 (.8-1.8)

Total Cortisol 21.7 8am

(ref. for 8am 4.0 - 22.0)

10/30/06

Ferritin 102 (ref 10-232

TSH 1.99

FreeT4 1.2 (.8 - 1.8)

Free. T3 271 (230-420)

Elen

-- In iodine , " Ellen " <ellen@...> wrote:

>

> This is a case history on thyroidmanager that talks about elevated T3

> in the presence of normal or subnormal T4. I'll keep looking. It

> would be helpful to have a clue what your TSH was and the ranges.

>

> E

>

>

>

> 40+ yr old female

> History of hypOthyroid

> Been on replacement hormone for over 10 years

>

> Given herbal treatment for tiredness for 1-2 mths then stopped.

> Several months later started to have mild hyperthyroid symptoms and

> T3 related hyperthyroid state

>

> In the past 15 months, free-thyroid picture remains very stable with

> fT4 16-19 (10-24), fT3 6.2-11 (2.5-5.5pmol/L), TSH <0.08. Thyroid

> just bearly palpable, no goitre.

>

> Thyroglobulin <1ug/L (<55)(DPC Immulite 2000) with antithyroglobulin

> antibody 259 IU/ml (EIA) (<100), antithyroid peroxidase 300 IU/ml

> (EIA) (<100). Thyroid 99m Tc pertechnetate scan - Asymmetry R > L,

> right large hot nodule with left lobe diffusely warm, i.e. no

> suppressionm.

>

> Denies ongoing use of T4 or T3 replacement since mid 2005. Despite

> tremor and tachycardia found and explanation of cardiac/osteoporosis

> risk - patient feels good in hyperthyroid state and refuse any kinds

> of treatment offer.

>

> RESPONSE: I think a more likely diagnosis is autoimmune thyroid

> disease, which began with hypothyroidism, but now manifests itself

> as very mild hyperthyroidism. The low TG is unreliable in the

> presence of the antibodies. A toxic nodule should be obvious on

> physical or Ultrasound, since it typically would need to be 3 cm in

> size to produce hyperthyroidism. Having both AITD and a toxic nodule

> is possible, but a unitary diagnosis is usually better than two. The

> elevated T3 and normal T4 fits with the output of an auto-immune-

> damaged gland, and could not easily be duplicated by a pill unless

> the patient took a special mixture of T4 and T3. (This last

> statement is conditioned on what would happen to T4 and T3 when

> taking such pills in the presence of a normal gland, and I can not

> be sure what would occur in the presence of a nodule or

> thyroiditis.) The scan and uptake also argue against a toxic nodule,

> and fit with AITD (Hashitoxicosis?) L De Groot, MD

>

> http://www.thyroidmanager.org/experts2.htm

>

>

>

> > > >

> > > > What should the free T3 be? Mine is 269 (230-420)

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

My understanding is that this indicates low cortisol. Cortisol is

needed to allow the T3 to get into the cells. With low cortisol, the

T3 builds up in the bloodstream since it can't get into the cells.

I have no studies to back this up...Skipper, do you?

Warmly,

When I was first diagnosed my T4 was in the dirt and

> > T3 real high.

[Guest guest]

>From: " angesc2001 " <AngInfoHound@...>

>My understanding is that this indicates low cortisol. Cortisol is

>needed to allow the T3 to get into the cells. With low cortisol, the

>T3 builds up in the bloodstream since it can't get into the cells.

>

>I have no studies to back this up...Skipper, do you?

>

>Warmly,

>

That's not one of my concepts, I think I heard it here first, and Pat says

it on HHN.

Looking back at my labs, with low cortisol even on 3 grains of Armour, I had

low fT3. You need cortisol to convert T4 into T3.

As the below two quotes show, at least in animals, cortisol will increase T3

concentration and T3 (Triiodthyronin) will help elevate cortisol levels.

This is why if one has both low cortisol and low thyroid, that if one is

fixed, they'll both get better -

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN & cpsidt=17073723

The results clearly show that the administration of cortisol increases serum

T3 concentration

http://www.thieme-connect.com/ejournals/abstract/eced/doi/10.1055/s-2004-819185

In summary our results demonstrate for the first time that Triiodthyronin

time and dose dependently enhances cortisol secretion

**************************

Too much cortisol actually causes too much T4 to turn into rT3, the inactive

form of T3 that hogs receptor sites.

When one is treated with Armour, their T4 is usually low in relation to the

T3. That's normal for Armour treatment.

Before treatment, as the thyroid starts to fail, more T4 is converted into

T3. This is known by establishment medicine, and ignored. This is to

preserve life functions.

Also, if iodine is low, T3 will be higher in relation to T4. I know I

picked that up from thyroidmanager.org. Again to preserve life functions.

Doesn't do any good to store energy(T4) if you don't have any usable energy

(T3).

Skipper

>

>

>When I was first diagnosed my T4 was in the dirt and

> > > T3 real high.

>

>

>

>Iodine

[Guest guest]

HI Fast question ive been on synthyroid since they removed my thyroid at 17 im

now 46 ive been hypo for 2yrs doc just keeps upping my dose to 375mcg my problem

seems to be in the T3 so I asked my doctor to give me just T3 he did and said to

take 300mcg of synthyroid and 25mcg of T3 im wondering if my T3 is where im

lacking can I stop the T4 synthyroid and just use the T3???

thanx Robin

[Guest guest]

You want both free's - they are the unbound proteins available for use.

Steph

RT3

Can someone please tell me what RT3 means? I read it on another post and do not know what that stands for. thanks,Pam H.