Guest guest Posted February 27, 2003 Report Share Posted February 27, 2003 Hello ! I can't stay long but my heart goes out to you and my prayers are been lifted in your daughters name. The rest of my lovely friends here will come in and help you. God Bless You, Tony -- [ ] new member here Just found your site! My daughter, age 18, is suffering with autoimmune cholangitis (AIH + PSC). She has been on azathiaprine for two years now and her blood tests seem to show it's working well. However, she is in constant pain that spikes every other day to a 12 ("on a scale of 1 to 10"). Her liver doctor tells us to get pain prescriptions from her Crohn's doctor- her Crohn's doctor tells us to get prescriptions from her PCP- her PCP tells us to get prescriptions from her liver doctor! Her liver doctor says she "shouldn't" be in pain. Her Crohn's doctor says it's common to be in pain but (because she's so young and he doesn't want her to become addicted) she shouldgo to the ER every time she needs narcotics. We have been to the ER atleast once a month for the past two years just for pain management (and, as a side note, are therefore filing bankruptcy). We've tried pain clinics who also tell us they cannot give her a prescription for narcotics because she is too young. The ER's tell us she needs longterm pain management but have no more suggestions. The ER doctor we saw today said that because my daughter's blood tests came back within normal limits, she probly has a perfectly fine liver and is just an addict!! My daughter IS NOT AN ADDICT! She has to beg for pain medication and only gets small amounts every three weeks or so. She is tired of suffering and is talking seriously about self-euthansia/suicide. She was already evaluated by a psych who told the GI doctor that in his opinion he should give her a prescription for morphine. The GI doctor refused because of her age. My daughter is an honor student who cannot get out of bed most days because of her pain. Honestly, I would prefer she be addicted than dead. Atleast that way she'll be around if and when she can get a transplant or a new remedy is found. We have tried different doctors, different hospitals, but they all say the same thing. Is there anyone out there who has had similar experiences? Does anyone suffer from liver pain even though their liver enzymes are normal? PLEASE help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2003 Report Share Posted February 27, 2003 .. welcome! I hope someone here can help you. 1st of all it doesn't make a lot of sense that anyone should endure constant pain just because they may become addicted...so what if they do? Pain meds are for just that...relieve pain. why otherwise manufacture them? 2nd normal LFTs doesn't mean a thing other than there is little or no activity in the livers production of asts and alts. What has that got to do with pain? ASTs and ALTs don't cause pain. In fact they don't even measure liver " function " Did she see a psychiratist (sp) or psychologist.? he former is an MD and can Rx the meds himself. Other than seeking a more sympathetic doctor I'm not sure what you can , but keep complaining...the squeakiest wheel gets the oil. I hope she gets relief and keep posting maybe one of us can come up with a solution. love jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 Hello everyone: I joined a week ago and have been waiting for some posts to come through to me inbox but nothing has arrived. Perhaps I missed a step when I was joining. Anyone know why this might happen? Thanks, Bonnie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 I am in the same situation - I joined on Wednesday, and have seen new messages posted, which should have resulted in a message notification to my email (like happens with my other groups), but I have not gotten anything. I am set up for daily digest, and when I did not get anything from yesterday, I saved my settings again, but did not get anything again today, even though there have been posts. I am getting digests from other groups.. Beth in MN > > > > Hello everyone: > > > > I joined a week ago and have been waiting for some posts to come through to > > me inbox but nothing has arrived. Perhaps I missed a step when I was > > joining. > > > > Anyone know why this might happen? > > > > Thanks, > > Bonnie > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Beth, The list owner does not seem to follow the list anymore and refuses to delegate any control or moderator rights to anyone except Ira Fine. I believe Ira needs to acknowledge new members before they can post. He may be indisposed. Notification of the digest may be an option that only the list owner can change. Chuck You wrote: > > I am in the same situation - I joined on Wednesday, and have seen new > messages posted, which should have resulted in a message notification to > my email (like happens with my other groups), but I have not gotten > anything. I am set up for daily digest, and when I did not get anything > from yesterday, I saved my settings again, but did not get anything > again today, even though there have been posts. I am getting digests > from other groups.. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 The bucket is 6 gallons, but I only filled the bottom third, ~2 gal of product. I was planning to use a 1 gallon glass jug filled with water to weight the cabbage, but it was a little too tall for the lid to fit on. If I can find something flat and heavy to weight the cabbage, I may try a larger batch next time. I thought about getting the Harsch crock, but decided to try the wine making equipment instead. It's not be as romantic as a big ceramic crock, but I can't think of any reason why it wouldn't work just as well, and it's much less expensive. Bucket - $ 11.95 http://www.winemakersdepot.com/65-Gal-Fermenting-Bucket-No-Lid-P261.aspx Lid with grommet for air lock - $2.50 http://www.winemakersdepot.com/65-Gal-Lid-only-for-65-Gal-Bucket-Solid-Lid-P263.\ aspx Air Lock - $1.25 http://www.winemakersdepot.com/Cylindrical-3-Piece-Airlock-P151.aspx The whole set up for $15.70 plus shipping! The only thing missing is a plate to set on top of the cabbage, and the weight(s). I happened to have a dinner plate that works just fine. I'm still looking for a better solution for the weight. Hopefully, I can find a shorter glass bottle that will work. By the way, I tasted some of the cabbage today (after just 48 hours). It mostly tasted like salty cabbage with maybe just a hint of acid. Looking forward additional samples every few days. My wife is still a little incredulous at this point. She doesn't like kraut, or most other vegetables. I'm going to have to eat a lot of this stuff myself or find others to share with. Lot's of people are happy to share my wine, but I'm not sure how many will want my kraut. Best of luck with your batch! Have you tried any yet? On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 5:15 PM, bompu1 <bompu1@...> wrote: > > > Hi and welcome to the group, > I am new here too. I have been in the group about a month. > I started my very first kraut on Dec 22. Wow, your setup > sounds impressive. 6 gallons! I started much smaller, > using a 1.5 liter Pickl-It® jar. I am still waiting > to see if my first kraut comes out good, but if I get > the hang of this, I should probably get a bigger rig > too. Maybe a Harsch crock. We'll see. Anyway, best of > luck with your kraut, and let us know how it goes. > -Bompu > > > > > [...] > > > I started my first batch of saurkraut about 36 hours ago. > [...] The kraut is packed into one of my primary wine fermentors. > Basically, it's just a food-grade plastic bucket (6 gal), with a hole > drilled in the lid for an air lock. > [/...] > > > -- Regards, Harkness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 Sorry, I gave the wrong link for the lid. The lid with the grommet is here: http://www.winemakersdepot.com/65-Gal-Lid-only-for-65-Gal-Bucket-Drilled-Grommet\ ted-P262.aspx On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 10:33 PM, Harkness <davidharkness@...>wrote: > The bucket is 6 gallons, but I only filled the bottom third, ~2 gal of > product. I was planning to use a 1 gallon glass jug filled with water to > weight the cabbage, but it was a little too tall for the lid to fit on. If > I can find something flat and heavy to weight the cabbage, I may try a > larger batch next time. > > I thought about getting the Harsch crock, but decided to try the wine > making equipment instead. It's not be as romantic as a big ceramic crock, > but I can't think of any reason why it wouldn't work just as well, and it's > much less expensive. > > Bucket - $ 11.95 > http://www.winemakersdepot.com/65-Gal-Fermenting-Bucket-No-Lid-P261.aspx > > Lid with grommet for air lock - $2.50 > > http://www.winemakersdepot.com/65-Gal-Lid-only-for-65-Gal-Bucket-Solid-Lid-P263.\ aspx > > Air Lock - $1.25 > http://www.winemakersdepot.com/Cylindrical-3-Piece-Airlock-P151.aspx > > The whole set up for $15.70 plus shipping! The only thing missing is a > plate to set on top of the cabbage, and the weight(s). I happened to have a > dinner plate that works just fine. I'm still looking for a better solution > for the weight. Hopefully, I can find a shorter glass bottle that will > work. > > By the way, I tasted some of the cabbage today (after just 48 hours). It > mostly tasted like salty cabbage with maybe just a hint of acid. Looking > forward additional samples every few days. > > My wife is still a little incredulous at this point. She doesn't like > kraut, or most other vegetables. I'm going to have to eat a lot of this > stuff myself or find others to share with. Lot's of people are happy to > share my wine, but I'm not sure how many will want my kraut. > > Best of luck with your batch! Have you tried any yet? > > > On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 5:15 PM, bompu1 <bompu1@...> wrote: > >> >> >> Hi and welcome to the group, >> I am new here too. I have been in the group about a month. >> I started my very first kraut on Dec 22. Wow, your setup >> sounds impressive. 6 gallons! I started much smaller, >> using a 1.5 liter Pickl-It® jar. I am still waiting >> to see if my first kraut comes out good, but if I get >> the hang of this, I should probably get a bigger rig >> too. Maybe a Harsch crock. We'll see. Anyway, best of >> luck with your kraut, and let us know how it goes. >> -Bompu >> >> >> > >> [...] >> >> > I started my first batch of saurkraut about 36 hours ago. >> [...] The kraut is packed into one of my primary wine fermentors. >> Basically, it's just a food-grade plastic bucket (6 gal), with a hole >> drilled in the lid for an air lock. >> [/...] >> >> >> > > > > -- > Regards, > Harkness > -- Regards, Harkness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 RE: To Crock or not to Crock I also prefer the smaller jars over the big Harsch Crock. Once you have fermented that large quantity, you need to re-package the ferment and refrigerate. That's a lot of work. If we had a cold cellar, maybe this would not be necessary. I ferment in 2L (2 quart) or 4 L ( 1 gallon) and then just shove it in the fridge to mature. I borrow my husband's office fridge, nobody gets close to my ferment, they find it too wierd! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 LOL. Kimchi was my first " fermentation " experience. My BFF in high school was Korean, and I went to her house and her job for the day was to make this bucket of " rotting cabbage " . We had eaten it before, but I had no idea how it was made. The fact they just tossed it in a bucket on the porch amazed me, since I'd been taught to never, ever, leave food out like that. Anyway, I did have some cabbage once that I had mixed with salt and left on the counter for a couple of days, because something else came up. It just started turning into kimchi ... or kraut, depending on how you look at it. Story goes that the Germans actually learned kraut from the Mongol invaders, who carried something like kimchi with them to avoid scurvy. As for why use fermentation locks ... they can be useful, and some ferments really do release a lot of gas. Kraut does sometimes too, if the cabbage has more sugars or when you add, say, an apple (a common kraut additive), carrots, or beets. I use plastic lids for that reason, which are a little easier. But I have water-locks too, which I use on kefir-cider or when making beer. As for vinegar: the idea there is that, like salt, it pushes the bacteria in a certain direction. It's the acid that matters, not the source. You need some H+. Acid, salt, nitrates, starter cultures, spices ... they all do about the same thing, which is to encourage one " brand " of bacteria rather than another. I'm with you on salt. " Mined " salt is basically from ancient seas, and is arguably safer than modern salt (they didn't have plastic bags floating around in the ocean back then). The stuff in the store does have minerals taken out, but if you want raw mined salt, it is sold as animal feed at $4 for 50 lbs. It's about like Himalayan salt, but cheaper. However, my Korean friend used plain ol' Iodized Morton's, and it worked fine. In a plastic bucket, on the balcony in a cheap LA apartment in 90-degree weather. Sometimes I think we overthink things ... probably because we are learning them from scratch, rather than from our kin. On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 9:53 AM, Harkness <davidharkness@...>wrote: > Hi Suzy, > > I see that I have been misspelling sauerkraut. I went to the how2heros web > site, but didn't find that particular video on making sauerkraut. I did > find another one that was pretty good: > http://how2heroes.com/videos/sides/sauerkraut. The same guy does one on > kimchi: http://how2heroes.com/videos/soups-sauces/kimchi. > > When I was in the Army (many moons ago), I was stationed at Ft. Hood, > Texas. There was a large population of Koreans there as a result of GIs > marrying Koreans and moving back to the states. Anyway, I would see these > gallons jars full of " rotting " cabbage sitting on front porches, and was > told it was " kimchi. " Like most Americans, I was disgusted at the thought > of allowing food to " rot " before eating it. Of course, even Americans have > some exposure to cultured foods: cheese, sour cream, vinegar, & etc. But, > most Americans are disconnected from the processes used to make these > things, and most Americans associate microbes with disease. > > I spent a couple of years in Asia in the 90s (long after getting out of the > Army), and was exposed to many interesting foods not seen in US. I spent a > few weeks in Korea where I finally worked up the nerve to try the " rotted " > cabbage, kimchi; and I loved it! Kimchi will be my next experiment > (after, > I'm satisfied that I know how to make sauerkraut.) > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 Using non-iodized salt was one thing that sort of made sense to me. Iodine is a very powerful biocide. I use iodine (iodophore) to sanitize my wine making equipment. Of course, it's also an important nutirient at very low levels, which is why they put it in salt. I'm sure you are right the iodized salt will work fine, but I can buy store brand non-iodized salt for the same price iodized salt, so I'll probably keep using non-iodized for my fermenting. I've found the same kind of situations in wine making forums. You'll hear a lot about what you " must do " and " must never do, " and often you get contradictory information. (e.g. " you must use distilled water, " " you must never use distilled water, " etc.) Still, you can learn a lot from experienced people, and you will eventually come up with your own list of " must dos " and " must never dos " that work for you. On Sun, Jan 23, 2011 at 12:48 AM, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 I am 96 hours into my first batch. The fermentation smell is present. I ate a small bowl of it this morning. Still very crunchy, but the cabbage was a little more tender. There is a little bit of a tang to it, but it's not extremely acidic. I wish I had left out the crushed red pepper--maybe I could detect more subtle changes without the spice, but it does taste good. I tried testing the pH, but my strips only test as high as 4.4. The pH of this batch is 4.4 or higher. I've read that 4.6 or lower is considered the " safe " range. When preparing this batch, I used some tap water. That may have been a mistake. I know from testing water in our swimming pool that our water has a remarkably high " total alkalinity " of 400 ppm. Nevertheless, the pH of the water is only slightly alkaline and there is no alkaline taste. Apparently there is some kind of buffering going on. When I first filled the pool, I added gallons of hydrochloric acid to drop the pH from 7.7 to 7, and the next day it was right back where it started. Anyway, I'm thinking the total alkalinity of my water may be counteracting the acid created by the bacteria. I will use distilled water for future batches. On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 10:51 AM, davidharkness <davidharkness@...>wrote: > > > I recently became interested in the idea of fermenting vegetables, having > heard that raw saurkraut tastes much better than the canned stuff I had as a > kid. (I liked even that saurkraut.) > > I'm an engineer, and I have some experience with microbes in medical and > industrial environments. I also make wine, so I'm familiar with yeast, > Oenococcus oeni, and a variety of " spoilage " bacteria. > > I'm interested in both the probiotic and culinary use of fermented > vegetables, but I claim no expertise in either of those fields. > > I started my first batch of saurkraut about 36 hours ago. I used 10 lbs of > cabbage, 6 Tablespoons of non-iodized salt and a few tablespoons of crushed > red pepper. (I like the hot stuff.) The kraut is packed into one of my > primary wine fermentors. Basically, it's just a food-grade plastic bucket (6 > gal), with a hole drilled in the lid for an air lock. The kraut is weighted > with a dinner plate and a one-gallon zip lock bag filled with water. I'm > using the lid and air lock. Haven't seen any bubbling yet. > > > -- Regards, Harkness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 On Sun, Jan 23, 2011 at 6:17 AM, Harkness <davidharkness@...>wrote: > Using non-iodized salt was one thing that sort of made sense to me. Iodine > is a very powerful biocide. I use iodine (iodophore) to sanitize my wine > making equipment. Of course, it's also an important nutirient at very low > levels, which is why they put it in salt. I'm sure you are right the > iodized salt will work fine, but I can buy store brand non-iodized salt for > the same price iodized salt, so I'll probably keep using non-iodized for my > fermenting. > I have heard that at least with some vegies, the iodine reacts to turn the vegies black, which makes sense. However, some ferments use seaweed, which has more iodine in it, so I don't think the bacteriocide part of iodine is bad. After all, vinegar and salt are also both bacteriocides ... which is why they work: the bacteria we want happen to be the ones that are more resistant to acid and salt. But generally I don't use iodized salt either, for ferments. Or any salt with a " no cake " agent ... once I got a white film from that. I've found the same kind of situations in wine making forums. You'll hear a > lot about what you " must do " and " must never do, " and often you get > contradictory information. (e.g. " you must use distilled water, " " you must > never use distilled water, " etc.) Still, you can learn a lot from > experienced people, and you will eventually come up with your own list of > " must dos " and " must never dos " that work for you. > I agree. That is one reason why I tend to couch my verbage in terms of experience rather than in " laws " . In terms of water (and your next post) you are right, the water has a big effect. I think if you have chlorinated water or well water, it's a very good idea to boil it. I usually boil it with a little salt and vinegar ... the vinegar will counteract any alkalinity in the water, I think, and it gets the ferment off to a good start. If the ferment starts off being too alkaline, the acid-type bacteria might not gain a foothold, and then the alkaline-type bacteria can take over, and those seem to be the ones that smell bad and make it all go moldy. > On Sun, Jan 23, 2011 at 12:48 AM, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 Hmmm.... I just took a closer look at the label on the non-iodized salt I bought. It does contain an anti-caking agent. In this case it's yellow prussiate of soda (Sodium ferrocyanide). According to Wikipedia: * " Despite the presence of the cyanide ligands, sodium ferrocyanide is not especially toxic (acceptable daily intake 0–0.025 mg/(kg body weight)[2]<https://mail.google.com/mail/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.h\ tml#cite_note-toxic-1>) because the cyanides are tightly bound to the metal, although *it can react with acid* or photodecompose *to release hydrogen cyanide gas*. " * [emphasis mine] Yikes!!! I better stop sniffing the brew! I'm sure the amount is too small to be worrisome; but still! I'll will be switching to a different salt (and reading the labels more carefully.) * * On Sun, Jan 23, 2011 at 2:57 PM, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 Lol. Cyanide isn't as toxic as it's reputation. There is a fair bit of it in almonds, which I eat on a regular basis. Morton's just uses calcium silicate though, which is pretty inert I think. The problem I had with one commercial sea salt was that it added a white scum. The Korean sea salt I get *does* cake, and acts about like the salt you use for salt water aquariums ... not easily handled, but it tastes good and it's cheap. On Sun, Jan 23, 2011 at 3:31 PM, Harkness <davidharkness@...>wrote: > Hmmm.... I just took a closer look at the label on the non-iodized salt I > bought. It does contain an anti-caking agent. In this case it's yellow > prussiate of soda (Sodium ferrocyanide). > > According to Wikipedia: > > * " Despite the presence of the cyanide ligands, sodium ferrocyanide is not > especially toxic (acceptable daily intake 0–0.025 mg/(kg body > weight)[2]< > https://mail.google.com/mail/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#cite_no\ te-toxic-1 > >) > because the cyanides are tightly bound to the metal, although *it can react > with acid* or photodecompose *to release hydrogen cyanide gas*. " * [emphasis > mine] > > Yikes!!! I better stop sniffing the brew! I'm sure the amount is too > small > to be worrisome; but still! I'll will be switching to a different salt > (and > reading the labels more carefully.) > > * > > * Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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