Re: rule out hypothyroidism

[Guest guest]

Www.stopthethyroidmadness.com

-- rule out hypothyroidism

My wife's 20 year old son is 360, sedentary, obstinate, refuses to go to the

doctor and has moved back in with her. He has a horrible diet and sits in

front of a computer most of the time. I am aware of at least eight

conditions that are easily resulting in his lifestyle. He has never been

tested for hypothyroidism. Can you give me some guidance regarding the

possibility of his having hypothyroidism. He was a skinny child and at one

point began gaining weight and has never stopped.

Thanks,

Lance

[Guest guest]

Lance,

You wrote:

>

> My wife's 20 year old son is 360, sedentary, obstinate, refuses to go to

> the doctor and has moved back in with her. ... Can you give me some guidance

> regarding the possibility of his having hypothyroidism....

Read up on the major symptoms. If he is temperature sensitive, losing

hair, depressed, and in brain fog, he might be willing to get blood

tests for the possibility of relief.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Hi Lance:

Most doctors order the blood tests called the thyroid panel, and many people

have results in the normal range, even though actually they are hypothyroid.

Demand that the ordering physician orders reverse T3 and free T3 tests.

Also, I suggest you read the book called " Hypothyroidsm The unsuspected Illness

by Dr Broda , available from Amazon and here is a link:

http://www.amazon.com/Hypothyroidism-Unsuspected-Illness-Broda-/dp/0690010\

29X and utilize the basic temperature test outlined in his book. I

believe it to be very valid.

Ira M Fine

moderator of the hypothyroidism group.

>

> My wife's 20 year old son is 360, sedentary, obstinate, refuses to go to the

doctor and has moved back in with her. He has a horrible diet and sits in front

of a computer most of the time. I am aware of at least eight conditions that are

easily resulting in his lifestyle. He has never been tested for hypothyroidism.

Can you give me some guidance regarding the possibility of his having

hypothyroidism. He was a skinny child and at one point began gaining weight and

has never stopped.

> Thanks,

> Lance

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Chuck,

I don't know about temp sensitive, there is no hair loss, he is certainly

depressed or says he is and exhibits sleep issues, tiredness, thoughts of

suicide, lack of self worth, etc. he is never, it seems, in a brain fog. If

these are the major symptoms, I'd say he fails. Depression could easily come

from being 360 lbs. Whatr is important here, I believe, is that he lose weight

so as to head off the possibility, or likelihood of coronary heart disease,

hypertension, diabetes, osteoarthritis, sleep apnea, stroke, colon cancer (which

his dad has) and do so by changing his lifestyle. I don't wish hypothyroidism to

become some sort of diagnostic crutch. I do though want to know if he has it and

how to treat it.

lance

> Read up on the major symptoms. If he is temperature sensitive, losing

> hair, depressed, and in brain fog, he might be willing to get blood

> tests for the possibility of relief.

>

> Chuck

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Ira, so the temp test seems to be resting temp immediately upon

waking with bulb thermometer for ten minutes and also taking pulse...yes?

Look for <65 pulse and <97.8 temp. Is 3x good enough?

What do you suppose a reverse T3 and free T3 tests cost?

Lance

On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 12:39 PM, Ira <iramfine@...> wrote:

>

>

> Hi Lance:

>

> Most doctors order the blood tests called the thyroid panel, and many

> people have results in the normal range, even though actually they are

> hypothyroid. Demand that the ordering physician orders reverse T3 and free

> T3 tests.

>

> Also, I suggest you read the book called " Hypothyroidsm The unsuspected

> Illness by Dr Broda , available from Amazon and here is a link:

>

http://www.amazon.com/Hypothyroidism-Unsuspected-Illness-Broda-/dp/0690010\

29Xand utilize the basic temperature test outlined in his book. I

> believe it to be very valid.

>

> Ira M Fine

> moderator of the hypothyroidism group.

>

>

> >

> > My wife's 20 year old son is 360, sedentary, obstinate, refuses to go to

> the doctor and has moved back in with her. He has a horrible diet and sits

> in front of a computer most of the time. I am aware of at least eight

> conditions that are easily resulting in his lifestyle. He has never been

> tested for hypothyroidism. Can you give me some guidance regarding the

> possibility of his having hypothyroidism. He was a skinny child and at one

> point began gaining weight and has never stopped.

> > Thanks,

> > Lance

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

If he has gotten to 360 lbs, may I ask how he got there? Does he work and earn

his own money? Does he go outside of the house and buy his own food? If someone

else is buying his food, why not stop providing the food that is putting on

weight? Eliminating most carbs, except for veggies, and whole grains would

immediately help, exercise or no exercise.

The Atkins diet is in paperback and very easy to follow. I lost 40 lbs in 4

months with no exercise at all. At his weight his loss should be quite quick and

dramatic. I'd suggest following all the guidelines in the diet to make sure he

stays healthy, including a hi potency vitamin/mineral pill every day, even if

you have to crush it up and put it into oatmeal or apple sauce. The boy is not

behaving rationally, so it makes no sense to follow what he thinks are good

ideas for himself.

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

From: hardcastlelance <totanka@...>

Subject: Re: rule out hypothyroidism

hypothyroidism

Date: Monday, June 15, 2009, 9:52 AM

Thanks Chuck,

I don't know about temp sensitive, there is no hair loss, he is certainly

depressed or says he is and exhibits sleep issues, tiredness, thoughts of

suicide, lack of self worth, etc. he is never, it seems, in a brain fog. If

these are the major symptoms, I'd say he fails. Depression could easily come

from being 360 lbs. Whatr is important here, I believe, is that he lose weight

so as to head off the possibility, or likelihood of coronary heart disease,

hypertension, diabetes, osteoarthritis, sleep apnea, stroke, colon cancer (which

his dad has) and do so by changing his lifestyle. I don't wish hypothyroidism to

become some sort of diagnostic crutch. I do though want to know if he has it and

how to treat it.

lance

> Read up on the major symptoms. If he is temperature sensitive, losing

> hair, depressed, and in brain fog, he might be willing to get blood

> tests for the possibility of relief.

>

> Chuck

>

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Thanks, these are reasonable questions and reasonable solutions. This boy

has a lifetime of behaving irrationally but now he is hard to move,

literally. I'm no Atkins fan, other than the low carbs part....what should

be his caloric intake, would you say?

Also, where is a good online support group for him that would not support

his bad habits in favor maintaining his self-esteem?

Lance

On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 1:45 PM, Roni Molin <matchermaam@...> wrote:

>

>

> If he has gotten to 360 lbs, may I ask how he got there? Does he work and

> earn his own money? Does he go outside of the house and buy his own food? If

> someone else is buying his food, why not stop providing the food that is

> putting on weight? Eliminating most carbs, except for veggies, and whole

> grains would immediately help, exercise or no exercise.

> The Atkins diet is in paperback and very easy to follow. I lost 40 lbs in 4

> months with no exercise at all. At his weight his loss should be quite quick

> and dramatic. I'd suggest following all the guidelines in the diet to make

> sure he stays healthy, including a hi potency vitamin/mineral pill every

> day, even if you have to crush it up and put it into oatmeal or apple sauce.

> The boy is not behaving rationally, so it makes no sense to follow what he

> thinks are good ideas for himself.

>

> Roni

> <>Just because something

> isn't seen doesn't mean it's

> not there<>

>

>

>

> From: hardcastlelance <totanka@... <totanka%40gmail.com>>

> Subject: Re: rule out hypothyroidism

> hypothyroidism <hypothyroidism%40>

> Date: Monday, June 15, 2009, 9:52 AM

>

>

> Thanks Chuck,

> I don't know about temp sensitive, there is no hair loss, he is certainly

> depressed or says he is and exhibits sleep issues, tiredness, thoughts of

> suicide, lack of self worth, etc. he is never, it seems, in a brain fog. If

> these are the major symptoms, I'd say he fails. Depression could easily come

> from being 360 lbs. Whatr is important here, I believe, is that he lose

> weight so as to head off the possibility, or likelihood of coronary heart

> disease, hypertension, diabetes, osteoarthritis, sleep apnea, stroke, colon

> cancer (which his dad has) and do so by changing his lifestyle. I don't wish

> hypothyroidism to become some sort of diagnostic crutch. I do though want to

> know if he has it and how to treat it.

> lance

> > Read up on the major symptoms. If he is temperature sensitive, losing

> > hair, depressed, and in brain fog, he might be willing to get blood

> > tests for the possibility of relief.

> >

> > Chuck

> >

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Lance,

You wrote:

> ...If these are the major symptoms, I'd say he fails....

For most people, the treatment for hypoT is a rather simple, daily pill.

Others have issues that would call for the tests that Ira recommended.

However, since the key symptoms are mostly missing, especially the

temperature sensitivity, I would suspect sleep apnea or plain clinical

depression for this collection of issues. There is a spectrum of

conditions and treatments that go with these.

He really needs to see a physician, though.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

At this point it doesn't sound like he wants to have such a support group. He

needs someone to care enough to exercise some discipline for him. You sound like

you do care, and the diet I recommended is fun because most of the forbidden

foods are legal. As far as calories, on the Atkins Diet you don't count

calories, you count carbs. If you get the book it will explain it all. Initially

the beginning diet doesn't limit food amt as I recall except that it is

basically a zero carb situation. He will probably love it. He can have eggs,

bacon, mayo, butter, steak, fowl, fish, green salad, herbal tea, diet soda (with

no caffeine) just to name a few things. He can snack on pork rinds, crunchy

iceberg lettuce with a bit of beef bullion sprinkled on it and caffeine free

soda, if he likes. Sometimes, I used to snack on cold roast chicken. He really

won't be suffering, but you will have to get the carbs out of the house so he

doesn't get to them. After two to three weeks, most all of the craving for carbs

will be gone. He will start losing right away, so that should provide incentive

to continue. At his current weight, he will probably lose quite a bit initially.

It's really amazing. By the way, doctors are starting to recommend this diet

now, having realized it's the carbs that make people fat and raise their

cholesterol.

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

>

> From: hardcastlelance <totanka@... <totanka%40gmail.com>>

> Subject: Re: rule out hypothyroidism

> hypothyroidism <hypothyroidism%40>

> Date: Monday, June 15, 2009, 9:52 AM

>

>

> Thanks Chuck,

> I don't know about temp sensitive, there is no hair loss, he is certainly

> depressed or says he is and exhibits sleep issues, tiredness, thoughts of

> suicide, lack of self worth, etc. he is never, it seems, in a brain fog. If

> these are the major symptoms, I'd say he fails. Depression could easily come

> from being 360 lbs. Whatr is important here, I believe, is that he lose

> weight so as to head off the possibility, or likelihood of coronary heart

> disease, hypertension, diabetes, osteoarthritis, sleep apnea, stroke, colon

> cancer (which his dad has) and do so by changing his lifestyle. I don't wish

> hypothyroidism to become some sort of diagnostic crutch. I do though want to

> know if he has it and how to treat it.

> lance

> > Read up on the major symptoms. If he is temperature sensitive, losing

> > hair, depressed, and in brain fog, he might be willing to get blood

> > tests for the possibility of relief.

> >

> > Chuck

> >

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Can I understand the temperature sensitivity? Is is sensitivity to cold in

the house, does he need to be warm more than cold to be comfortable? It is

almost summer and the air is on in the house, should he be too cold maybe

and leaving the window open to get warm air maybe?

Thanks in advance.

Lance

On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 5:28 PM, Chuck B <gumboyaya@...> wrote:

>

>

> Lance,

>

> You wrote:

> > ...If these are the major symptoms, I'd say he fails....

>

> For most people, the treatment for hypoT is a rather simple, daily pill.

> Others have issues that would call for the tests that Ira recommended.

>

> However, since the key symptoms are mostly missing, especially the

> temperature sensitivity, I would suspect sleep apnea or plain clinical

> depression for this collection of issues. There is a spectrum of

> conditions and treatments that go with these.

>

> He really needs to see a physician, though.

>

> Chuck

>

>

[Guest guest]

Temperature sensitivity is either someone who feels cold when everyone else is

not, or feels hot when everyone else is not. It's an inappropriate response to

heat or cold.

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

> > ...If these are the major symptoms, I'd say he fails....

>

> For most people, the treatment for hypoT is a rather simple, daily pill.

> Others have issues that would call for the tests that Ira recommended.

>

> However, since the key symptoms are mostly missing, especially the

> temperature sensitivity, I would suspect sleep apnea or plain clinical

> depression for this collection of issues. There is a spectrum of

> conditions and treatments that go with these.

>

> He really needs to see a physician, though.

>

> Chuck

> 

>

[Guest guest]

Lance wrote:

>

>

>

> Can I understand the temperature sensitivity?...

It means he has a very narrow range of comfort. Typically, a hypoT

person has more clothes on than everyone else and wants to turn the

temperature up. However, they also don't do well in heat.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

This is different for me, I long for those 95 degree days where I can just sit

outside and enjoy the day.  I love the feeling of the hot sun and when I try to

relax and go to my " happy place " it's sitting in the sun on a very hot day. 

It's the cold that I have trouble with. I usually wear a sweater or hoodie until

it's about 82 and my husband thinks I am crazy.  I have also been accused of

trying to " hide " in more clothes since I am not thin but it has nothing to do

with not wanting to wear less clothes.  But I do not deal well with very high

humidity.  Why oh why do I live in Michigan!

>

>

>

> Can I understand the temperature sensitivity? ...

It means he has a very narrow range of comfort. Typically, a hypoT

person has more clothes on than everyone else and wants to turn the

temperature up. However, they also don't do well in heat.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

So he wears shorts all the time, in the winter, whatever...the same clothes,

sort of, in sort of an OCD fashion. I assume it has to do with his weight

and how he looks in clothes...as well as having to participate in buying

them in size.....HUGE.

This just doesn't sound like hypo-T, does it? I will try to get him to take

the temp test. It will not go well.

Lance

On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 8:43 PM, Chuck B <gumboyaya@...> wrote:

>

>

> Lance wrote:

> >

> >

> >

> > Can I understand the temperature sensitivity?...

>

> It means he has a very narrow range of comfort. Typically, a hypoT

> person has more clothes on than everyone else and wants to turn the

> temperature up. However, they also don't do well in heat.

>

> Chuck

>

>

[Guest guest]

Lance,

You wrote:

>

> ... This just doesn't sound like hypo-T, does it?...

Not unless he is allowed to keep the thermostat set higher than anyone

around him can stand.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

To me it appears that he may be on a subconscious self destructive

course. I think you should seriously consider that.

Luck,

..

..

> Posted by: " Lance " totanka@...

>

<mailto:totanka@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20rule%20out%20hypothyroidism>

> hardcastlelance <hardcastlelance>

>

>

> Tue Jun 16, 2009 2:40 pm (PDT)

>

>

>

> No Chuck, he doesn't set or change the thermostat and never complains

> about

> being cold.

> Thanks. Does everyone think I should insist he do the temperature

> under the

> arm test anyway? Couldn't hurt?

> Also, all you folks in the know on this topic probably also know of other

> conditions that maybe mimic hypothyroidism in its efforts to contribute to

> obesity. Any insights there would be much appreciated.

> TIA,

> Lance

[Guest guest]

I think there is little that is subconscious about it although there is an

element of that, thanks. This is the very reason that I intend for him to go

to the doctor. Presumably, a doctor will portray the risks of morbid obesity

in such a way that he will at least have accurate information regarding

diabetes, stroke, hypertension, colon cancer, etc. The onus upon him to

change will then come from outside rather than from his family and he will

be faced with blaming western medicine or some other such effort.

Once he, if he does, accepts the responsibility of taking care of himself,

he will need all the support of those that have done this stuff. What I need

is a bank of resources to help him. In the mean time, food that is here in

the house will become lo carb, lo fat, and lo quantity.

Thanks, you all, for the insights in hypothyroidism. He, I think, is

probably simply fat, tired, lazy, stubborn, and has been allowed to remain

such and the end result today is his depression and his extremely

destructive behaviors which cannot be ignored.

Thanks,

Lance

On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 11:21 AM, <res075oh@...> wrote:

>

>

> To me it appears that he may be on a subconscious self destructive

> course. I think you should seriously consider that.

>

> Luck,

>

> .

> .

>

> > Posted by: " Lance " totanka@... <totanka%40gmail.com>

> > <mailto:totanka@... <totanka%40gmail.com>

> ?Subject=%20Re%3A%20rule%20out%20hypothyroidism>

> > hardcastlelance <hardcastlelance>

> >

> >

> > Tue Jun 16, 2009 2:40 pm (PDT)

>

> >

> >

> >

> > No Chuck, he doesn't set or change the thermostat and never complains

> > about

> > being cold.

> > Thanks. Does everyone think I should insist he do the temperature

> > under the

> > arm test anyway? Couldn't hurt?

> > Also, all you folks in the know on this topic probably also know of other

> > conditions that maybe mimic hypothyroidism in its efforts to contribute

> to

> > obesity. Any insights there would be much appreciated.

> > TIA,

> > Lance

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Lance, I really think you need to consider that sitting in front of the computer

all day and

eating too much is a major contributor to obesity. That being said, a person of

his age,

doing what he is doing needs to be evaluated by a doctor, a medical doctor.

Maybe allowing him to choose which doctor from a list of insurance approved

physicians might

encourage him to actually go to the appointment. I don't think you should insist

on anything. This young man needs all the encouragement he can get. As for the

food, however, I would not serve him foods and amounts that are inappropriate.

If he doesn't like that he has choices, get up and get your own, or eat the food

and become healthier. Anything that's done needs to be done with love and

encouragement. Your wife and you must present a solid force however and need to

back each other up so that he can't divide and conquer.

 

 

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

From: <res075oh@...>

Subject: Re: rule out hypothyroidism

hypothyroidism

Date: Wednesday, June 17, 2009, 8:21 AM

To me it appears that he may be on a subconscious self destructive

course.   I think you should seriously consider that.

Luck,

..

..

>       Posted by: " Lance " totanka@...

>   

   <mailto:totanka@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20rule%20out%20hypothyroidism>

>         hardcastlelance <hardcastlelance>

>

>

>         Tue Jun 16, 2009 2:40 pm (PDT)

>

>

>

> No Chuck, he doesn't set or change the thermostat and never complains

> about

> being cold.

> Thanks. Does everyone think I should insist he do the temperature

> under the

> arm test anyway? Couldn't hurt?

> Also, all you folks in the know on this topic probably also know of other

> conditions that maybe mimic hypothyroidism in its efforts to contribute to

> obesity. Any insights there would be much appreciated.

> TIA,

> Lance

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

I think your assessment is correct, except that depression should be first on

your list. No young man of his age does what he is doing and is also happy. He

is depressed either because of some compelling reason, or depressed clinically,

which can be treated. I don't believe he is getting anything positive out of his

behavior, and feel that being angry with him is counter productive. Don't cut

his meals suddenly. Do it very gradually, so it won't be a

shock. Another thing you could do is get B-100 capsules and open them and

dissolve them in food or beverage. That might help to improve his nervous system

and consequently his outlook. He also needs to be tested for a number of things

besides thyroid, Vitamin D3 for example. None of these things are instant and

all require patience and tenacity.

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

>

>

> To me it appears that he may be on a subconscious self destructive

> course. I think you should seriously consider that.

>

> Luck,

>

> .

> .

>

> > Posted by: " Lance " totanka@... <totanka%40gmail.com>

> > <mailto:totanka@... <totanka%40gmail.com>

> ?Subject=%20Re%3A%20rule%20out%20hypothyroidism>

> > hardcastlelance <hardcastlelance>

> >

> >

> > Tue Jun 16, 2009 2:40 pm (PDT)

>

> >

> >

> >

> > No Chuck, he doesn't set or change the thermostat and never complains

> > about

> > being cold.

> > Thanks. Does everyone think I should insist he do the temperature

> > under the

> > arm test anyway? Couldn't hurt?

> > Also, all you folks in the know on this topic probably also know of other

> > conditions that maybe mimic hypothyroidism in its efforts to contribute

> to

> > obesity. Any insights there would be much appreciated.

> > TIA,

> > Lance

>

> 

>

[Guest guest]

So let me understand your view on insisting something. You believe that I

should serve him healthy foods in appropriate quantities and if he chooses

not to eat those, he can get up and get his (presumably unhealthy) food in

any quantity himself? Does it not make sense to only have healthy foods in

the house and limit his quantity based on the fact that he doesn't buy any

of the food and cannot currently. If this were true, would I not be

insisting that he eat correctly if he wishes to stay?

Conversely, I believe that he does not own the information on diabetes,

stroke, colon cancer, hypertension, coronary heart disease, osteoarthritis

and it would be prudent to insist that he does. His father has colon cancer,

his maternal grandmother also did. Where does encouragement find its happy

balance with something that may cripple him, make him dependent on a flawed

system, and conceivably cause his tortured demise?

Is there not a line in the sand and if so where is it?

Lance

On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 2:52 PM, Roni Molin <matchermaam@...> wrote:

>

>

> Lance, I really think you need to consider that sitting in front of the

> computer all day and

> eating too much is a major contributor to obesity. That being said, a

> person of his age,

> doing what he is doing needs to be evaluated by a doctor, a medical doctor.

> Maybe allowing him to choose which doctor from a list of insurance approved

> physicians might

> encourage him to actually go to the appointment. I don't think you should

> insist on anything. This young man needs all the encouragement he can get.

> As for the food, however, I would not serve him foods and amounts that are

> inappropriate. If he doesn't like that he has choices, get up and get your

> own, or eat the food and become healthier. Anything that's done needs to be

> done with love and encouragement. Your wife and you must present a solid

> force however and need to back each other up so that he can't divide and

> conquer.

>

>

>

>

> Roni

> <>Just because something

> isn't seen doesn't mean it's

> not there<>

>

>

>

> From: <res075oh@... <res075oh%40verizon.net>>

> Subject: Re: rule out hypothyroidism

> hypothyroidism <hypothyroidism%40>

> Date: Wednesday, June 17, 2009, 8:21 AM

>

> To me it appears that he may be on a subconscious self destructive

> course. I think you should seriously consider that.

>

> Luck,

>

> .

> .

>

> > Posted by: " Lance " totanka@... <totanka%40gmail.com>

> > <mailto:totanka@... <totanka%40gmail.com>

> ?Subject=%20Re%3A%20rule%20out%20hypothyroidism>

> > hardcastlelance <hardcastlelance>

> >

> >

> > Tue Jun 16, 2009 2:40 pm (PDT)

> >

> >

> >

> > No Chuck, he doesn't set or change the thermostat and never complains

> > about

> > being cold.

> > Thanks. Does everyone think I should insist he do the temperature

> > under the

> > arm test anyway? Couldn't hurt?

> > Also, all you folks in the know on this topic probably also know of other

> > conditions that maybe mimic hypothyroidism in its efforts to contribute

> to

> > obesity. Any insights there would be much appreciated.

> > TIA,

> > Lance

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

From: Lance <totanka@...>

Subject: Re: Re: rule out hypothyroidism

hypothyroidism

Date: Wednesday, June 17, 2009, 12:08 PM

So let me understand your view on insisting something. You believe that I

should serve him healthy foods in appropriate quantities and if he chooses

not to eat those, he can get up and get his (presumably unhealthy) food in

any quantity himself? Does it not make sense to only have healthy foods in

the house and limit his quantity based on the fact that he doesn't buy any

of the food and cannot currently. If this were true, would I not be

insisting that he eat correctly if he wishes to stay?

 

It makes absolute sense to have only healthy food in the house. If he overeats,

and he will initially, he will still be dieting because you won't have the

sugary, fatty

and chemically enhanced food in the house for him to eat.

It's a funny thing that happens when we can only get healthy food. We start

actually liking it and wanting it. As I mentioned none of this is instantaneous.

If he can only eat good food because the good food is all there is you won't

have to insist anything. Just tell him that you guys have decided that you want

to live and live healthfully, and have changed the type of foods you buy, and

also have changed the quantities you eat. You don't have to be angry or

insistent. It will happen by itself if you stick with it.

Conversely, I believe that he does not own the information on diabetes,

stroke, colon cancer, hypertension, coronary heart disease, osteoarthritis

and it would be prudent to insist that he does. His father has colon cancer,

his maternal grandmother also did. Where does encouragement find its happy

balance with something that may cripple him, make him dependent on a flawed

system, and conceivably cause his tortured demise?

 

You CAN tell him that you have been doing some research recently, and have

discovered some really frightening information that has precipitated the change

in

food habits. You can simply give him the names of those illnesses you just

listed and let him know they are all readily available on google, if he's

interested in the

information. Then let it go at that. You need to give this young man the

opportunity

to grow up. You can't browbeat him into it, because that only makes things worse

and makes a kid resentful. You can ask him when was his last medical checkup,

and than suggest you make an appointment for him or he could make it himself and

you'd be fine with taking him to the office.

Is there not a line in the sand and if so where is it?

 

You can make as many lines as you want, but then if they get crossed you get

forced into enforcing them. I don't think you want to do that. Better not to

draw a line, but present a path. Now that you have finally come to the point

where you are

anxious to help him, keep in mind that he has not gotten there yet. Patience!

Lance

 

Roni

[Guest guest]

Thanks Roni,

Let me say that the house already has only healthy, only organic food bought

at the local way-to-expensive green grocery. This is already a way of life.

There has not been any chemically modified food here for the at least the

last 5 years. This is not something that needs to be introduced. A point of

fact is that he has not had a medical check-up in ten years, he has refused.

He is 360 lbs now and refusal comes a lot easier.He will need a ride to the

doctor as he cannot walk that far and has no money for cab fare.

He has gained weight since he got back three months ago. His answer to

getting diabetes is...ok, I'll get it.

I actually never said anything about being angry and in fact I have never

been. What I have been is frustrated with his self-destructive behaviors.

Does this not bring you back to....he needs to go to the doctor?

Lance

On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 3:23 PM, Roni Molin <matchermaam@...> wrote:

>

>

>

>

> Roni

> <>Just because something

> isn't seen doesn't mean it's

> not there<>

>

>

>

> From: Lance <totanka@... <totanka%40gmail.com>>

> Subject: Re: Re: rule out hypothyroidism

> hypothyroidism <hypothyroidism%40>

> Date: Wednesday, June 17, 2009, 12:08 PM

>

> So let me understand your view on insisting something. You believe that I

> should serve him healthy foods in appropriate quantities and if he chooses

> not to eat those, he can get up and get his (presumably unhealthy) food in

> any quantity himself? Does it not make sense to only have healthy foods in

> the house and limit his quantity based on the fact that he doesn't buy any

> of the food and cannot currently. If this were true, would I not be

> insisting that he eat correctly if he wishes to stay?

>

> It makes absolute sense to have only healthy food in the house. If he

> overeats, and he will initially, he will still be dieting because you won't

> have the sugary, fatty

> and chemically enhanced food in the house for him to eat.

>

> It's a funny thing that happens when we can only get healthy food. We start

> actually liking it and wanting it. As I mentioned none of this is

> instantaneous. If he can only eat good food because the good food is all

> there is you won't have to insist anything. Just tell him that you guys have

> decided that you want to live and live healthfully, and have changed the

> type of foods you buy, and also have changed the quantities you eat. You

> don't have to be angry or insistent. It will happen by itself if you stick

> with it.

>

> Conversely, I believe that he does not own the information on diabetes,

> stroke, colon cancer, hypertension, coronary heart disease, osteoarthritis

> and it would be prudent to insist that he does. His father has colon

> cancer,

> his maternal grandmother also did. Where does encouragement find its happy

> balance with something that may cripple him, make him dependent on a flawed

> system, and conceivably cause his tortured demise?

>

> You CAN tell him that you have been doing some research recently, and have

> discovered some really frightening information that has precipitated the

> change in

> food habits. You can simply give him the names of those illnesses you just

> listed and let him know they are all readily available on google, if he's

> interested in the

> information. Then let it go at that. You need to give this young man the

> opportunity

> to grow up. You can't browbeat him into it, because that only makes things

> worse

> and makes a kid resentful. You can ask him when was his last medical

> checkup, and than suggest you make an appointment for him or he could make

> it himself and you'd be fine with taking him to the office.

>

> Is there not a line in the sand and if so where is it?

>

> You can make as many lines as you want, but then if they get crossed you

> get forced into enforcing them. I don't think you want to do that. Better

> not to draw a line, but present a path. Now that you have finally come to

> the point where you are

> anxious to help him, keep in mind that he has not gotten there yet.

> Patience!

>

> Lance

>

> Roni

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, it does, but it will take some finesse. Is it possible for you to schedule

a dual appointment for the both of you? I can absolutely empathize with your

frustration, but

again, this is going to take time and effort. You can admit to him that you're

not crazy about going to the doctor either, but it's one of the things in life

that need to get done and you could be moral support for each other.

 

 My husband died because of diabetes, and the first access to information I

would give him is about this disease. How it systematically kills the organs in

your body, veins, heart, eyes, kidneys brain and feet. His response is one of

youthful rebellion, non-information, and depression. None of this is because

it's making him happy, quite the contrary.

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

>

> From: Lance <totanka@... <totanka%40gmail.com>>

> Subject: Re: Re: rule out hypothyroidism

> hypothyroidism <hypothyroidism%40>

> Date: Wednesday, June 17, 2009, 12:08 PM

>

> So let me understand your view on insisting something. You believe that I

> should serve him healthy foods in appropriate quantities and if he chooses

> not to eat those, he can get up and get his (presumably unhealthy) food in

> any quantity himself? Does it not make sense to only have healthy foods in

> the house and limit his quantity based on the fact that he doesn't buy any

> of the food and cannot currently. If this were true, would I not be

> insisting that he eat correctly if he wishes to stay?

>

> It makes absolute sense to have only healthy food in the house. If he

> overeats, and he will initially, he will still be dieting because you won't

> have the sugary, fatty

> and chemically enhanced food in the house for him to eat.

>

> It's a funny thing that happens when we can only get healthy food. We start

> actually liking it and wanting it. As I mentioned none of this is

> instantaneous. If he can only eat good food because the good food is all

> there is you won't have to insist anything. Just tell him that you guys have

> decided that you want to live and live healthfully, and have changed the

> type of foods you buy, and also have changed the quantities you eat. You

> don't have to be angry or insistent. It will happen by itself if you stick

> with it.

>

> Conversely, I believe that he does not own the information on diabetes,

> stroke, colon cancer, hypertension, coronary heart disease, osteoarthritis

> and it would be prudent to insist that he does. His father has colon

> cancer,

> his maternal grandmother also did. Where does encouragement find its happy

> balance with something that may cripple him, make him dependent on a flawed

> system, and conceivably cause his tortured demise?

>

> You CAN tell him that you have been doing some research recently, and have

> discovered some really frightening information that has precipitated the

> change in

> food habits. You can simply give him the names of those illnesses you just

> listed and let him know they are all readily available on google, if he's

> interested in the

> information. Then let it go at that. You need to give this young man the

> opportunity

> to grow up. You can't browbeat him into it, because that only makes things

> worse

> and makes a kid resentful. You can ask him when was his last medical

> checkup, and than suggest you make an appointment for him or he could make

> it himself and you'd be fine with taking him to the office.

>

> Is there not a line in the sand and if so where is it?

>

> You can make as many lines as you want, but then if they get crossed you

> get forced into enforcing them. I don't think you want to do that. Better

> not to draw a line, but present a path. Now that you have finally come to

> the point where you are

> anxious to help him, keep in mind that he has not gotten there yet.

> Patience!

>

> Lance

>

> Roni

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sounds like he may just need to learn the hard way. Hypothyroidism can lead

to coma and death if left untreated. Sounds to me like he has a hard head.

And like mamma use to say a hard head leads to a soft _ _ _!

CW

-- Re: Re: rule out hypothyroidism

> hypothyroidism <hypothyroidism%40>

> Date: Wednesday, June 17, 2009, 12:08 PM

>

> So let me understand your view on insisting something. You believe that I

> should serve him healthy foods in appropriate quantities and if he chooses

> not to eat those, he can get up and get his (presumably unhealthy) food in

> any quantity himself? Does it not make sense to only have healthy foods in

> the house and limit his quantity based on the fact that he doesn't buy any

> of the food and cannot currently. If this were true, would I not be

> insisting that he eat correctly if he wishes to stay?

>

> It makes absolute sense to have only healthy food in the house. If he

> overeats, and he will initially, he will still be dieting because you won

t

> have the sugary, fatty

> and chemically enhanced food in the house for him to eat.

>

> It's a funny thing that happens when we can only get healthy food. We

start

> actually liking it and wanting it. As I mentioned none of this is

> instantaneous. If he can only eat good food because the good food is all

> there is you won't have to insist anything. Just tell him that you guys

have

> decided that you want to live and live healthfully, and have changed the

> type of foods you buy, and also have changed the quantities you eat. You

> don't have to be angry or insistent. It will happen by itself if you stick

> with it.

>

> Conversely, I believe that he does not own the information on diabetes,

> stroke, colon cancer, hypertension, coronary heart disease, osteoarthritis

> and it would be prudent to insist that he does. His father has colon

> cancer,

> his maternal grandmother also did. Where does encouragement find its happy

> balance with something that may cripple him, make him dependent on a

flawed

> system, and conceivably cause his tortured demise?

>

> You CAN tell him that you have been doing some research recently, and have

> discovered some really frightening information that has precipitated the

> change in

> food habits. You can simply give him the names of those illnesses you just

> listed and let him know they are all readily available on google, if he's

> interested in the

> information. Then let it go at that. You need to give this young man the

> opportunity

> to grow up. You can't browbeat him into it, because that only makes things

> worse

> and makes a kid resentful. You can ask him when was his last medical

> checkup, and than suggest you make an appointment for him or he could make

> it himself and you'd be fine with taking him to the office.

>

> Is there not a line in the sand and if so where is it?

>

> You can make as many lines as you want, but then if they get crossed you

> get forced into enforcing them. I don't think you want to do that. Better

> not to draw a line, but present a path. Now that you have finally come to

> the point where you are

> anxious to help him, keep in mind that he has not gotten there yet.

> Patience!

>

> Lance

>

> Roni

>

>