Cows, Geopolitics, and Big Business Re: Re: Thy

April 10, 2009

Some aspects of a nice condo would be excellent for us to use as a

summer home if we buy and move to Ohio. But the downsides always snag us.

..

>

> Posted by: " Roni Molin " matchermaam@...

>

<mailto:matchermaam@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Cows%2C%20Geopolitics%2C%20and%\

20Big%20Business%20Re%3A%20%5Bhypothyroidism%5D%20Re%3A%20Thy>

> matchermaam <matchermaam>

>

> Wed Apr 8, 2009 11:18 pm (PDT)

>

> I'm on your team . I don't believe in condos even though in my

> situation it would be

> nice. Maintenance taken care of and a lovely apartment. However the

> maintenance fees are always too much, and keep going up, and there is

> no deduction for them. The price of the condo, however, goes up slower

> than a house.

>

> Roni

> <>Just because something

> isn't seen doesn't mean it's

> not there<>

>

> From: <res075oh@... <mailto:res075oh%40verizon.net>>

> Subject: Re: Cows, Geopolitics, and Big Business Re:

> Re: Thy

> hypothyroidism

> <mailto:hypothyroidism%40>

> Date: Wednesday, April 8, 2009, 9:39 PM

>

> Be very careful with condo's. First, make sure the monthly fee

> [whatever it's called] is sufficient to pay the maintenance and so on

> that it must cover; AND that it does not raise your monthly outlay

> beyond what you can reasonably spare. Second: Make sure that there are

> not a lot of vacancies, which will equate to a lot of fees not collected

> which translates to even higher fees for those remaining. And make sure

> that there are not a lot of delinquencies among those present. Finally,

> you probably might not want to buy where a large percentage of residents

> are renters, or allowed to be renters; but that's a value judgment that

> would not apply to all cases. Look at the books and make sure the

> required reserves are there.

>

> Condo's are _very inexpensive_ locally now.

>

> .

April 10, 2009

My point is that NO ONE should ever have to live in a roach infested

dwelling. It is amoral and unethical for the owner of such dwelling to allow

it to exist.

In a perfect world, that would never happen. I get that. But, I along with

many other citizens will never accept that as the standard for this society.

This country is too rich to allow slum dwellings to be a standard of living

and it should never be accepted based on morals and ethics.

Whether you have running water or not, you can still live in a dwelling that

is clean and free of roaches and other health concerns. Dealing with an

outhouse is not a shame, as long as it is kept clean. Getting your water

from a well is fine, too as long as the water is treated so that it doesn't

make you sick.

-- Re: Cows, Geopolitics, and Big Business Re:

> > Re:

> > >>> Thy

> > >>>

> > >>> Hmmm, I thought he had a pretty good handle on it. With what part do

> > >>> you disagree?

> > >>>

> > >

> >

> > --

> >

> > Steve - dudescholar4@

> >

> > Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

> > http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

> >

> > " If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

> > to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

> >

April 10, 2009

I do see that it is now used both ways. But I think the original was

similar to the link here:

..

<http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=97161786>

..

> Posted by: " Nancie Barnett " deifspirit@...

>

<mailto:deifspirit@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Cows%2C%20Geopolitics%2C%20and%20B\

ig%20Business%20Re%3A%20%5Bhypothyroidism%5D%20Re%3A%20Thy>

> aspenfairy1 <aspenfairy1>

>

> Wed Apr 8, 2009 11:30 pm (PDT)

>

> Well, the financial experts are also calling the homes toxic assets, too.

> That goes for the European mortgage business that had its' meltdown. I

> heard

> this on NPR and BBC.

>

> -- Re: Cows, Geopolitics, and Big Business Re: Re:

> Thy

>

> " Toxic assets " actually refer to the securities or bonds [or whatever]

> created that are backed by the mortgages. These securities were

> marketed as being extremely safe, with a very low default rate of a tiny

> percentage at most. When the default rate went to several percent that

> changed the whole picture of the value of these assets. Now with a loss

> ratio of several times the expected rate the securities could not find

> buyers at any price; despite the fact that [at least early on] more than

> 90% of the mortgages were current.

>

> Banks must by law have a certain level of assets compared to

> liabilities. Assets that cannot be sold at any price are essentially

> worthless, even in the present case where 80 to 90% of the underlying

> mortgages are good investments. So the value of the assets of the banks

> fell below the requirements of the law, and they were/are in deep

> trouble.

>

April 10, 2009

The UN never said that there were WMD's. That is why they did NOT give UN

support for IRAQ. They did give it for Afghanistan.

Europe did not agree with Bush, are you mad? That is why no one except for

Tony Blair who was in bush's pocket, agreed to go into IRAQ in the beginning

It was only after the " war " was supposedly over, did other nations began to

send troops, but only very limited amounts and currently we have only US and

the brits, who are pulling out in may. Then we will be there all by

ourselves.

The only country where we have UN support is in Afghanistan. That war was

sanctioned by the UN because the goal is/was to get rid of the Taliban and

Bin Laden.

Bush based his entire argument on some graduate student's research thesis

about saddam. That was revealed on NPR. There were no WMD and there still

isn't.

The democrats who voted [ and NOT everyone did, Obama did not } believed the

lies that bush told and when the truth came out, that is when they voiced

their outrage.

-- Re: Cows, Geopolitics, and Big Business Re: Re:

> Thy

>

> News flash! There are 20 million illegals in this country taking American

> jobs.

>

> Fannie and Freddie failed because Congress, under and Clinton,

> mandated banks loan to unworthy borrowers. Five years ago, Geo Bush tried

> to rein them in and Barney screamed " discrimination against poor

> people. " Bush backed down. Republicans didn't fight. McCain also

> tried a couple of years ago but his bill died in a Democrat controlled

> committee.

>

> There is nothing above with which to argue. Those are all provable facts.

>

> BTW, more teenagers would be working now if the minimum wage hadn't have

> been jacked up by the liberals.

>

> Val

>

> Posted by: " Nancie Barnett "

>

> Thu Apr 9, 2009 12:45 am (PDT)

>

> News flash there is not

> enough jobs and more people are going to be losing their jobs before it

> evens out and not everyone can afford to go to higher education! E

>

> Fannie Mae failed remember?

>

April 10, 2009

We sent lots of support, supplies to make gas weapons, aircraft,

helicopters, munitions, and provided logistical and technical support

after Saddam invaded Iran because Saddam was then our bastard and we

hated Iran. The Iranians in 1951 elected in their first democratically

held election Mohammed Mosaddeq, who nationalized the British oil

companies and they came crying to the Americans for help. We sent in

the CIA to overthrow a democratically elected government and installed

the terror that was the Shaw of Iran, who we taught to torture using CIA

methods and he killed many, a very many of his own people in a reign of

terror. That left the country ripe for religious ferment and any

improvement that wasn't American controlled, and religious kooks took

over and the shaw was kicked out. This has allow Iran to fund crap all

over the middle east. The US was not happy about the shaw losing power

and tried to work to stop it. The Iranians effectively this time told

the US to go f**k itself. So, in response we encourage Saddam to attack

Iran and support him, even with gas weapons supplies, which resulted in

more than 1 MILLION Iranians dead. Do you wonder why Iran wants to

develop nuclear weapons? It's the only way they can stop the US from

beating them to death every time they start to develop. Hell, the

younger generation wants to westernize and democratize and we keep

standing in the way.

We used to love Saddam for doing our evil bidding and made lots of deals

with him. We supported him with the technology to make gas weapons and

use them against Iran. He did NOT figure that out himself. In fact, we

had a part in placing the Baath party in power in 1968 in Iran, which

Saddam's Party as he rose within it. Google search " CIA Baath 1968 " .

We've been f**king the middle east for a long time and it's till going

on. People wonder why " they hate us " but they have no clue about real

history.

No Nancie, I'm not a Republican and I'm not a democrat. I just your

average libertarian who thinks everyone should live their own lives as

they see fit and leave the hell everyone else alone. Taking down

democratically elected governments and taking the resources of hard

working people are equally evil, very evil.

Steve

Nancie Barnett wrote:

> I am talking about a war that we had no business starting, that was started

> under false pretenses and BS. We went into this country without UN support,

> big frigging mistake and now over 4,000 soldiers are dead because of it. And

> over 1 million Iraqi's.

> There was no axis of evil and Iraq did not participate in 911. Is that not

> clear enough for you.

>

> -- Re: Cows, Geopolitics, and Big Business Re: Re:

> Thy

>

> News flash! There are 20 million illegals in this country taking American

> jobs.

>

> Fannie and Freddie failed because Congress, under and Clinton,

> mandated banks loan to unworthy borrowers. Five years ago, Geo Bush tried

> to rein them in and Barney screamed " discrimination against poor

> people. " Bush backed down. Republicans didn't fight. McCain also

> tried a couple of years ago but his bill died in a Democrat controlled

> committee.

>

> There is nothing above with which to argue. Those are all provable facts.

>

> BTW, more teenagers would be working now if the minimum wage hadn't have

> been jacked up by the liberals.

>

> Val

>

> Posted by: " Nancie Barnett "

>

> Thu Apr 9, 2009 12:45 am (PDT)

>

> News flash there is not

> enough jobs and more people are going to be losing their jobs before it

> evens out and not everyone can afford to go to higher education! E

>

> Fannie Mae failed remember?

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

" If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

April 10, 2009

The IRS cannot change the law. Don't make up sh*t.

Steve

Nancie Barnett wrote:

> steve-

> I am not making up sh#t! this is what i was told by the neighbor and my tax

> advisor.

> the government needs money, so IRS has apparently suspended it's rules

> temporarily to go after people who didn't pay up when they should have.

>

> you are the most condescending jerk.

>

> -- Re: Cows, Geopolitics, and Big Business Re: Re:

>> Thy

>>

>> Nancie Barnett wrote:

>>> Plus,

>>> there is no statue of limitations for the IRS, they can go after as many

>>> years as they want.

>> You have a very creative imagination constantly make claims about

>> government laws and constitutional issues that are completely wrong:

>>

>> Under section 6501(a) of the Internal Revenue Code (Tax Code) and

>> section 301.6501(a)-1(a) of the Income Tax Regulations (Tax

>> Regulations), the IRS is required to assess tax within 3 years after the

>> tax return was filed with the IRS. Similarly, under 301.6501(a)-1( of

>> the Tax Regulations no proceeding in court by the IRS without assessment

>> for the collection of any tax can begin after the expiration of 3 years.

>>

>> What is clear is that the IRS CANNOT go after as many years as they want.

>>

>

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

" If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

April 10, 2009

The government is already confiscating your " personal Fruits " thru taxes,

SSI, local taxes, etc. So unless you either leave the country or declare

yourself a non-patriot and refuse to pay taxes, you are already giving your

money to the scary government. Some of that money will and does go to social

service programs. Like health insurx for needy kids and some of those kids

have life threatening illnesses, and whose families meet the federal limit

for poverty and thus need governmental assistance to survive in an

expensive world.

-- Re: Cows, Geopolitics, and Big Business Re: Re:

Thy

Nancie, you are assuming I have no understanding and empathy because I

refuse to condone government confiscation of personal fruits. You have

virtually no idea how much I give of my own labors. I just want you to be

sure and understand that YOU have NO right to force ME to labor to support

YOUR efforts.

Val

Posted by: " Nancie Barnett "

<mailto:deifspirit@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Cows%2C%20Geopolitics%2C%20and

%20Big%20Business%20Re%3A%20%5Bhypothyroidism%5D%20Re%3A%20Thy>

deifspirit@... <aspenfairy1> aspenfairy1

in an free country people should have empathy towards people who have less

than you have. In a well run society, people look out for their neighbors

and help them when they need it.

That is not communism. You need to take a class in college.

But, I see you don't care about less fortunate people. Nice.

April 10, 2009

, if you could step back a few feet from your own situation, I think you'll

be able to see that there are times in life that good, hard working people,

through no fault of their own become " needy " and the government (I don't care

which administration is in power), instead of giving them the timely help they

need, drags out the rules and regulations to the point that the people get into

a much worse situation. Your anger is justified, not because the government

helped you out when you needed it, but because they didn't help you out when you

needed it.

I have been writing this same thing over and over. I agree with Steve's

capitalistic business. It makes perfect sense. I agree with Nancie's altruistic

attitude, people need compassion and charity from time to time. The problem with

all this is that for the last eight years we have been living in an us vs. them

frame of mind that has severely polarized good people on both sides. That's what

needs to stop. We all need to respect each other's viewpoints again and stop the

vitriol.

We need to recognise that Bush and his ideas, attitudes and actions has done

terrible damage to the country (and the world), and right now Obama's efforts do

seem scary, whether you're a republican or a democrat. Hard times are hard

times. We're not used to thinking is trillions. Just look around. There are

houses that sell for over half a billion dollars all by themselves, so trillions

of dollars is not THAT far out of line, once we put it into perspective. I hope

this didn't sound preachy, I was trying to calm down all of you great people and

get back our spirit of cooperation.

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

>

> My point is that NO ONE should ever have to live in a roach infested

> dwelling. It is amoral and unethical for the owner of such dwelling to allow

> it to exist.

> ...

------------------------------------

April 10, 2009

I'm a democrat (which you probably figured out by now : ) ), but I have to say

I'm in agreement about Geitner. I didn't trust this guy even before al this crap

came out.

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

From: <res075oh@...>

Subject: Re: Cows, Geopolitics, and Big Business Re: Re: Thy

hypothyroidism

Date: Thursday, April 9, 2009, 11:15 PM

We aren't talking about " he " [a single example]. We're talking about

multiple examples. Anyway, tax cheats are typically eager [somewhat,

anyway] to pay the tax when they get caught once the alternatives are

explained to them. But you or I would probably go to jail.

When you say " he " perhaps you mean Geithner /Obama's treasury/

secretary? I believe his excuse was ignorance. If that is true and

correct than he should not be treasury secretary. That level of

ignorance is simply unacceptable in such a position.

..

>

> Posted by: " Nancie Barnett " deifspirit@...

>

<mailto:deifspirit@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Cows%2C%20Geopolitics%2C%20and%\

20Big%20Business%20Re%3A%20%5Bhypothyroidism%5D%20Re%3A%20Thy>

> aspenfairy1 <aspenfairy1>

>

> Wed Apr 8, 2009 10:30 pm (PDT)

>

> Oh, please! Look at the number of tax cheats in congress and the house,

> especially with the republicans!

> Geez, you conservatives make a big frigging deal, people make mistakes on

> their taxes all the time. At least he corrected it and admitted it. I like

> to see how many of the republicans admit that they made mistakes or

> actually

> cheated on their taxes!

> The number of private taxpayers who have their taxes done by a CPA is high

> and it is also a significant number of people who get in trouble with the

> IRS because their tax preparer screwed up!

>

> -- Re: Cows, Geopolitics, and Big Business Re: Re:

> Thy

>

> It's a matter of personal philosophy. Liberals will say yes while

> conservatives will say no. Liberals will approve of high taxes

> [especially on " the wealthy " ] but when they fall into the wealthy class

> they tend to avoid them by legal or illegal means. Look at the number

> of tax cheats in Obama's appointments.

>

------------------------------------

April 10, 2009

Who the heck is Tom Coburn. THIS is where you get your so called information? on

TWITTER?

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

From: Crystal <sweetnwright@...>

Subject: Re: Cows, Geopolitics, and Big Business Re: Re: Thy

hypothyroidism

Date: Thursday, April 9, 2009, 11:18 PM

If you join tom coburn, who is famous in DC for getting rid of wasteful

spending, on twitter you can keep up with all the earmarks

CW

Traveling? Know someone who is? Use my travelocity site www.travelfhtm

com/crystalwright

-- Cows, Geopolitics, and Big Business Re: Re: Thy

It did, last week, Thursday I believe it was...

> ...Tell

> me how many thousands of earmarks [not all by democrats] are in the

> current budget bill [i think it passed].

> ...

>

April 10, 2009

These wonderful brave soldiers would go back because they feel guilty that they

are safe and their comrades are still in danger. Our soldiers are getting killed

by car and roadside bombs that the terrorists who are now an almost permanent

fixture in Iraq are planting.

How did they become such an everyday feature? Oh, that's right, Bush went in and

bombed the crap out of Iraq and then set of faction against faction, and now

it's a mess.

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

From: Crystal <sweetnwright@...>

Subject: Re: Cows, Geopolitics, and Big Business Re: Re: Thy

hypothyroidism

Date: Thursday, April 9, 2009, 11:22 PM

If there is no axis of evil who is killing our soldiers? What do you assume

we should do about N Korea? Ignore them too? Until what they kill 3,000

Americans on our soil? I know people in the military and they are SUPER

proud of what they do. They are MORE than willing to go back to Iraq over

and over til we win. This is AMerica since when do we let people run all

over us?

CW

Traveling? Know someone who is? Use my travelocity site www.travelfhtm

com/crystalwright

-- Re: Cows, Geopolitics, and Big Business Re: Re:

Thy

News flash! There are 20 million illegals in this country taking American

jobs.

Fannie and Freddie failed because Congress, under and Clinton,

mandated banks loan to unworthy borrowers. Five years ago, Geo Bush tried

to rein them in and Barney screamed " discrimination against poor

people. " Bush backed down. Republicans didn't fight. McCain also

tried a couple of years ago but his bill died in a Democrat controlled

committee.

There is nothing above with which to argue. Those are all provable facts.

BTW, more teenagers would be working now if the minimum wage hadn't have

been jacked up by the liberals.

Val

Posted by: " Nancie Barnett "

Thu Apr 9, 2009 12:45 am (PDT)

News flash there is not

enough jobs and more people are going to be losing their jobs before it

evens out and not everyone can afford to go to higher education! E

Fannie Mae failed remember?

April 10, 2009

That is not a position for any sort of argument. There was a time where nobody

had inside toilets. That's why they were called out houses. That has nothing to

do with the discussion.

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

From: cindy.seeley <cindy.seeley@...>

Subject: Cows, Geopolitics, and Big Business Re: Re: Thy

hypothyroidism

Date: Thursday, April 9, 2009, 11:30 PM

Nancie, I've lived briefly in a roach infested dive and been thankful that I had

a roof over my head! Another time we lived in a 1 room cabin, with no

electricity or running water...unless you call one of us running to the river

and back, running water...again, we were thankful for what we had! Both were

better than what people had to live in during my grandparents and great

grandparents generation... My grandfather never in his life had a inside

toilet, or running water. My husband's family didn't get an inside toilet until

he was stationed in Germany while in the Army. No, I don't agree they 'deserve'

anything. I do however, believe we as civilization have an obligation to take

care of our elderly and disabled, but not because the 'government' forces us

to. My experience repeatedly, both personal and through observation of family

and friends, has always proved that individuals always took better care of us,

and them, than government ever

even thought about doing...all government ever did is try to hold us

back...hostage to the 'system'! I'll pay all of the taxes I'm 'legally'

required to, but I 'donate' MY time and MY resources to the private

organizations that have proved most helpful in the past, or I'll continue to

make my own donations directly to the individuals that I find in need of the

resources I have at my disposal. It's not charity, nor do I have the joy of

being charitable, when Uncle Sam dictates any of this for me...

> > >> My argument stems form ACTUAL experience with the poor in this country

>

> > I

> > >> work with the poor and I have run a homeless health clinic in the past,

> > >> nothing has changed, except that the need is greater than before from

> the

> > >> failed policies of the last republican administration!

> > >> Maybe You should read for starters : " The public assault on America's

> > >> children; Poverty, violence and juvenile injustice " by Polakow;

>

> > >> There are no children here " by Kotlowitz; " No place to be, voices

> of

> > >> homeless children " by Judith Berk; " Life and death on the south side of

> > >> Chicago " by LeAlan and Lioyd Newman; " amazing Grace, the lives of

> > >> children and the conscience of a nation " by Kozol. This author

> > > has

> > >> also written many other books on poverty of children in America;

> wasting

> > >> America's future " by n wright edelman; " a prayer for children " by

> > Ina

> > >> ; " wasted , the plight of America's unwanted children " by

> T

> >

> > >> ; " no matter how loud I shout " by edward humes; " the shame of a

> > >> nation " by Kozol; " somebody else's children " by Hubner

> and

> > >> Jill wolfson; " i speak for this child " by gay courter; " growing up poor

>

> > > by

> > >> coles, randy testa and michael coles; " almost lost " edited by

> > >> Beatrice sparks; " solomon " s sword " by michael shapiro; " and still we

> rise

> >

> > >> by miles corwin; " children of crisis, vols 1 and 2 " by robert coles;

> > >> families in peril " by marian wright edelman; " the state of america's

> > >> children, yearbook 2002 " by the children's defense fund.

> > >>

> > >> -- Re: Cows, Geopolitics, and Big Business Re:

> > Re:

> > >>> Thy

> > >>>

> > >>> Hmmm, I thought he had a pretty good handle on it. With what part do

> > >>> you disagree?

> > >>>

> > >

> >

> > --

> >

> > Steve - dudescholar4@

> >

> > Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

> > http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

> >

> > " If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

> > to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

> >

April 10, 2009

Even if we had a true flat tax, the wealthy would be paying more. That's just

numbers.

10% of 100 is 10, 10% of 1,000 is 100 and so forth and so on. You can't change

these laws and make any sense. You make more you pay more, Period.

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

From: <res075oh@...>

Subject: Re: Cows, Geopolitics, and Big Business Re: Re: Thy

hypothyroidism

Date: Thursday, April 9, 2009, 11:32 PM

True enough. Which is one of the reasons that " taxing the wealthy "

never has the intended effects [see: Yacht tax]. There are typically

LEGAL ways that an individual or a corporation can utilize to limit

confiscatory taxes; and they will be used. Moving out, of course,

remains an option.

..

>

> Posted by: " Nancie Barnett " deifspirit@...

>

<mailto:deifspirit@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Cows%2C%20Geopolitics%2C%20and%\

20Big%20Business%20Re%3A%20%5Bhypothyroidism%5D%20Re%3A%20Thy>

> aspenfairy1 <aspenfairy1>

>

> Wed Apr 8, 2009 10:35 pm (PDT)

>

> Not necessarily true... There are wealthy companies that are doing

> business

> on the USA soil and still are not paying their fair share in taxes. That

> attitude is pandering to the kidnappers. The USA has been taken

> hostage with

> that attitude and the end result is these mega rich corporations are not

> paying their fair share in taxes.

>

> -- Re: Cows, Geopolitics, and Big Business Re: Re:

> Thy

>

> One reason to give the wealthy tax cuts is so they will keep their

> companies

> here in America ; )

------------------------------------

April 10, 2009

That's because Bush lied about the good intelligence he got, and refused to

acknowledge that he had bad intelligence and was operating on that.

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

From: cindy.seeley <cindy.seeley@...>

Subject: Cows, Geopolitics, and Big Business Re: Re: Thy

hypothyroidism

Date: Thursday, April 9, 2009, 11:35 PM

It's too bad all the democrats were lined up right along with the republicans in

saying we had to take out Saddam...it's also too bad that Europe, and the UN

also said there were WMAs... I'll bet Bush twisted theirs arms over that one!

>

> I am talking about a war that we had no business starting, that was started

> under false pretenses and BS. We went into this country without UN support,

> big frigging mistake and now over 4,000 soldiers are dead because of it. And

> over 1 million Iraqi's.

> There was no axis of evil and Iraq did not participate in 911. Is that not

> clear enough for you.

>

> -- Re: Cows, Geopolitics, and Big Business Re: Re:

> Thy

>

> News flash! There are 20 million illegals in this country taking American

> jobs.

>

> Fannie and Freddie failed because Congress, under and Clinton,

> mandated banks loan to unworthy borrowers. Five years ago, Geo Bush tried

> to rein them in and Barney screamed " discrimination against poor

> people. " Bush backed down. Republicans didn't fight. McCain also

> tried a couple of years ago but his bill died in a Democrat controlled

> committee.

>

> There is nothing above with which to argue. Those are all provable facts.

>

> BTW, more teenagers would be working now if the minimum wage hadn't have

> been jacked up by the liberals.

>

> Val

>

> Posted by: " Nancie Barnett "

>

> Thu Apr 9, 2009 12:45 am (PDT)

>

> News flash there is not

> enough jobs and more people are going to be losing their jobs before it

> evens out and not everyone can afford to go to higher education! E

>

> Fannie Mae failed remember?

>

April 10, 2009

All the fantastic myths of political systems seem wonderful on paper. I don't

care what system is in play, as long as it is run and legislated by people there

will be lies and corruption along with any good that is done. The human system

trums ideology every time, and lots of times for bad.

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

From: <res075oh@...>

Subject: Re: Cows, Geopolitics, and Big Business Re: Re: Thy

hypothyroidism

Date: Thursday, April 9, 2009, 11:05 PM

Once again: Tell me what happened and who stopped the effort when Bush

tried to rein in Fanny and Freddie in 2006? Once again: Tell me about

the legislation in 1977 that changed the requirements for obtaining a

mortgage from being the ability to repay same to some other politically

correct requirement? Tell me what Barney said about Bush's

attempts to prevent the collapse of Fannie and Freddie in 2006 and what

he says now... Tell me about Obama's promise that it won't be business

as usual and that there would be no pork in the trillions of stimulus

dollars. Tell me what percentage of the trillions ARE NOT pork. Tell

me how many thousands of earmarks [not all by democrats] are in the

current budget bill [i think it passed].

And yet once again: I'm NOT talking about NEED. I'm talking about the

fundamental difference between a free society and a totalitarian

society, which is the RIGHT to own what you produce/earn. Anybody can

define that they have a NEED for your possessions under your philosophy;

but in a free society they cannot define such a RIGHT.

..

>

> Posted by: " Nancie Barnett " deifspirit@...

>

<mailto:deifspirit@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Cows%2C%20Geopolitics%2C%20and%\

20Big%20Business%20Re%3A%20%5Bhypothyroidism%5D%20Re%3A%20Thy>

> aspenfairy1 <aspenfairy1>

>

> Wed Apr 8, 2009 10:00 pm (PDT)

>

> And once again, why do the wealthy Need any tax cuts??? They don't

> need any

> tax cuts. That is a conservative attitude that wants to protect their

> kind,

> just like the last 8 years with a greedy ruthless administration.

>

> -- Re: Cows, Geopolitics, and Big Business Re: Re:

> Thy

>

> Once again: It's not a matter of need. It is a matter of owning what

> you earn, whether it's a lot or not.

>

------------------------------------

April 10, 2009

You are right Nancie. That's pretty much the way it went down.

The Foxy people and their cohorts have twisted the facts to

be unrecognizable from the truth.

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

From: Nancie Barnett <deifspirit@...>

Subject: Re: Cows, Geopolitics, and Big Business Re: Re: Thy

hypothyroidism

Date: Friday, April 10, 2009, 12:01 AM

The UN never said that there were WMD's. That is why they did NOT give UN

support for IRAQ. They did give it for Afghanistan.

Europe did not agree with Bush, are you mad? That is why no one except for

Tony Blair who was in bush's pocket, agreed to go into IRAQ in the beginning

It was only after the " war " was supposedly over, did other nations began to

send troops, but only very limited amounts and currently we have only US and

the brits, who are pulling out in may. Then we will be there all by

ourselves.

The only country where we have UN support is in Afghanistan. That war was

sanctioned by the UN because the goal is/was to get rid of the Taliban and

Bin Laden.

Bush based his entire argument on some graduate student's research thesis

about saddam. That was revealed on NPR. There were no WMD and there still

isn't.

The democrats who voted [ and NOT everyone did, Obama did not } believed the

lies that bush told and when the truth came out, that is when they voiced

their outrage.

-- Re: Cows, Geopolitics, and Big Business Re: Re:

> Thy

>

> News flash! There are 20 million illegals in this country taking American

> jobs.

>

> Fannie and Freddie failed because Congress, under and Clinton,

> mandated banks loan to unworthy borrowers. Five years ago, Geo Bush tried

> to rein them in and Barney screamed " discrimination against poor

> people. " Bush backed down. Republicans didn't fight. McCain also

> tried a couple of years ago but his bill died in a Democrat controlled

> committee.

>

> There is nothing above with which to argue. Those are all provable facts.

>

> BTW, more teenagers would be working now if the minimum wage hadn't have

> been jacked up by the liberals.

>

> Val

>

> Posted by: " Nancie Barnett "

>

> Thu Apr 9, 2009 12:45 am (PDT)

>

> News flash there is not

> enough jobs and more people are going to be losing their jobs before it

> evens out and not everyone can afford to go to higher education! E

>

> Fannie Mae failed remember?

>

April 10, 2009

I was responding to .

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

From: cindy.seeley <cindy.seeley@...>

Subject: Cows, Geopolitics, and Big Business Re: Re: Thy

hypothyroidism

Date: Friday, April 10, 2009, 1:00 PM

? I must be missing something...? I just confirmed that the budget did pass,

last week... ?

> > ...Tell

> > me how many thousands of earmarks [not all by democrats] are in the

> > current budget bill [i think it passed].

> > ...

> >

>

> ------------------------------------

>

April 10, 2009

Steve,

You wrote:

> He wasn't the only Obama appointee that had tax issues, there was:

>

> Ron Kirk

> Geithner

> Tom Daschle

> Killefer

> Bill - being probed

> Hilda Solis husband who paid off the day before her vote

You left out Kathleen Sebelius, who just paid about $7,000 for unintentional

mistakes, mostly involving missing documentation for charitable and interest

deductions.

Chuck

April 10, 2009

You should pay a bit more attention. My position has always been stated

that people who can take care of themselves [that is, people of normal

health] should, can and will. I have not addressed at all any idea that

we should not provide help to those who cannot help themselves. But

your statement about Reagan is simply wrong, and I challenge you to

provide any evidence to support your allegation.

I would be ashamed of myself if I persisted in applying pejoratives that

imply mental illness or Nazi tendencies with no reasonable evidence at

all. YMMV.

Anyway, if you're saying that every city and town has hundreds of

thousands of mental cases on the streets you've over stated the

problem. OTOH perhaps from your viewpoint maybe not, because you seem

to feel everybody who disagrees with your position has a mental

condition. And I suspect there are a heck of a lot of them.

..

>

> Posted by: " " kennio@...

>

<mailto:kennio@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Cows%2C%20Geopolitics%2C%20and%20Big\

%20Business%20Re%3A%20%5Bhypothyroidism%5D%20Re%3A%20Thy>

> Kennio <Kennio>

>

> Thu Apr 9, 2009 12:14 am (PDT)

>

> >People can and will take care of themselves once the idea that

> someone >else should take care of them so they don't have to hold a

> job or get an

> >education is removed.

>

> Reagan dumped the mentally ill into the streets and they remain there

> today. In every city in every town... hundreds of thousands of people

> living on the streets. Just because you don't acknowledge them doesn't

> mean they don't exist. You ought to be ashamed of yourself.

April 10, 2009

I _LIVED_ a life of poverty as a child that your clients probably don't

even know exists. And for the most part now only exists in third world

countries. I don't need you to tell me about it, or to read about it.

Least of all some liberal crap.

..

>

> Posted by: " Nancie Barnett " deifspirit@...

>

<mailto:deifspirit@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Cows%2C%20Geopolitics%2C%20and%20B\

ig%20Business%20Re%3A%20%5Bhypothyroidism%5D%20Re%3A%20Thy>

> aspenfairy1 <aspenfairy1>

>

> Thu Apr 9, 2009 12:27 am (PDT)

>

> My argument stems form ACTUAL experience with the poor in this country . I

> work with the poor and I have run a homeless health clinic in the past,

> nothing has changed, except that the need is greater than before from the

> failed policies of the last republican administration!

> Maybe You should read for starters : " The public assault on America's

> children; Poverty, violence and juvenile injustice " by Polakow;

> There are no children here " by Kotlowitz; " No place to be, voices of

> homeless children " by Judith Berk; " Life and death on the south side of

> Chicago " by LeAlan and Lioyd Newman; " amazing Grace, the lives of

> children and the conscience of a nation " by Kozol. This

> author has

> also written many other books on poverty of children in America; " wasting

> America's future " by n wright edelman; " a prayer for children " by Ina

> ; " wasted , the plight of America's unwanted children " by T.

> ; " no matter how loud I shout " by edward humes; " the shame of a

> nation " by Kozol; " somebody else's children " by Hubner and

> Jill wolfson; " i speak for this child " by gay courter; " growing up

> poor " by

> coles, randy testa and michael coles; " almost lost " edited by

> Beatrice sparks; " solomon " s sword " by michael shapiro; " and still we rise "

> by miles corwin; " children of crisis, vols 1 and 2 " by robert coles;

> families in peril " by marian wright edelman; " the state of america's

> children, yearbook 2002 " by the children's defense fund.

April 10, 2009

Maybe it is a right wing republican conspiracy, lol

Who knows. Sorry about that.

-- Re: Cows, Geopolitics, and Big Business Re: Re:

> Thy

>

> It's a matter of personal philosophy. Liberals will say yes while

> conservatives will say no. Liberals will approve of high taxes

> [especially on " the wealthy " ] but when they fall into the wealthy class

> they tend to avoid them by legal or illegal means. Look at the number

> of tax cheats in Obama's appointments.

>

April 10, 2009

I've been following this topic a little, I'd like to add that raising the

minimum wage isn't keeping people from getting jobs, the fact that people aren't

spending money is. Look how long it's been since the minimum wage was raised,

and compare that to how much higher products and services cost consumers from

these same businesses. They charge a lot more for their products/services yet

were paying the same minimum wage as 10 years ago, more profit for them at the

expense of their employees. In the small town where I live, most all of the

jobs are minimum wage jobs. And the City just laid off over 50 employees and

our school district is getting ready to lay off 30 teachers.

I felt lucky getting hired by the Census Bureau - $12 an hour/ .55 a mile, I

spent 40+ hours in training, then my first week on the job (this week), a job

that was supposed to last until June 26, I worked 15.5 hours (2 days) and was

told there is no more work - the government Over-Hired so the work was all

completed because we had more than twice the number of employees needed. We

just had to turn in our gear today.

How about the hotels and motels, have you noticed the huge increase in the cost

of renting a room for a night over the years? You realize the person that

solely gets that room ready for the next customer, the person that actually

makes that room rentable for the hotel/motel from day to day, is paid minimum

wage whether it's a $100 room or a $300 room? And in some the housekeepers are

supposed to clean 2 rooms an hour. Go give it a try and find out how much work

it is for little money. 2 rooms an hour, that's about $3.75 per room - changing

sheets and pillow cases on 2 beds, dusting, emptying trash, wiping down,

dusting, vacuuming, cleaning out the sink, toilet, shower, replacing towels,

soaps, toilet paper, shampoos, coffees, etc - in a half hour. Next time you

stay in a hotel/motel, leave a tip in your room because the person that cleans

up after you isn't making a living wage.

In the small town I live in, I haven't noticed ANY illegals lately since the

construction industry came to a complete halt. Prior to that they were

EVERYWHERE, from roofing to plastering. The grocery stores were full of them

every evening, Spanish speaking couples with 5 kids per basket from babies to

young elementary school kids, but not now.

Terry in AZ

April 10, 2009

I guess they decided they weren't getting enough and went home.

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

From: TerryW <blazingsaddles@...>

Subject: Re: Cows, Geopolitics, and Big Business Re: Re: Thy

hypothyroidism

Date: Friday, April 10, 2009, 4:35 PM