Re: Reverse T3/dark day/Chuck

[Guest guest]

I do not know. I know they say it works differently from other allergy meds. I

would guess if it is an antihistamine, and I do not know that, it would not be

good to take with thyroid meds.

Venizia

> >

> > Roni,

> >

> > Antihistamines interfer with thyroid meds which is why you probably did not

do well on when taking them. I was taking fexophenadine and stopped that. I

lost almost 10# after doing so.

> >

> > Venizia

>

[Guest guest]

Val,

You asked:

>

> I do not understand the origin of all the Internet wisdom about rT3 and FT3.

> Could you provide some reference about this ratio?

It is pretty standard endo stuff, since it was first studied in

connection with Grave's disease. Just Google discriminately. The

controversial part is over 's hypothesis that a positive feedback

loop causes RT3 to maintain its own production, something that is

sometimes called RT3 dominance. I would also be skeptical of any claims

about anti-aging.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

I lost weight too, but I didn't connect it to stopping the zyrtek. Instead, I

think it was because I had to cut out so many things that were triggers for the

atrial fibrillation.

Inadvertently, my caloric input and fat content was decreased. That's the good

thing

that came out of it, aside from the fact that the afib seems to be in remission.

That's

why I had to go back off the thyrolar after trying it, because I started to be

symptomatic

again.

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

From: venizia1948 <nelsonck@...>

Subject: Re: Reverse T3/dark day/Chuck

hypothyroidism

Date: Friday, April 10, 2009, 1:27 PM

Roni,

Antihistamines interfer with thyroid meds which is why you probably did not do

well on when taking them.  I was taking fexophenadine and stopped that. I lost

almost 10# after doing so.

Venizia

> >

> > I'm on the rT3/FT3 list and have been on these thyroid lists for over 10

> > years.

> > 

> > Right now, I'm trying to understand this whole concept.  Where did it come

> > from?  Who says?  I know about the ratio and about taking pure T3, but who

> > says?

> > 

> > I'm mostly quit reading these lists because so much of the information is

> > wrong or just plain dangerous.  The little discussion between the bleeding

> > hearts and the libertarians caught my eye and I've enjoyed it.  It is

> > amusing to see how people argue given their political leanings.

> > 

> > Val

> > 

> >

> > 

> > <hypothyroidism/message/46836;_ylc=X3oDMTJxdWd

> > lbm1nBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDNDY

> > 4MzYEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTIzOTMzNjA0Mg-->

> >

> >

> > Posted by: " cindy.seeley "

> >

> >

> > Hi Val!

> > I don't remember where I first learned about the importance of rT3 and

> > freeT3, but I do remember the recommended ratio is about = or > 20. Because

> > they are measured in different units, one has to be converted so the ratio

> > can be calculated using the same units. I don't remember the units,

> > therefore, I can't tell you the formula for the conversion either.

> > hope this helps some anyway...

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I don't react to it like I normally do with antihistamines...don't get a dry

mouth and dry burning sinuses. What I have been having for some time now and

hadn't associated with possibly being caused by the Singulair is really dry

eyes. Sometimes it's like the lids have dried right to my eyeballs when I wake

up in the morning and the separation of the two makes opening my eyes very

painful. I'll have to look into this. My youngest daughter (diagnosed w/Hashis

in January) just told me last night when she called that her doctor put her on

Singulair and 2 other asthma meds--she thinks the Singulair is working the best

for her. I hope it doesn't interfere with our thyroid stuff...

> > >

> > > Roni,

> > >

> > > Antihistamines interfer with thyroid meds which is why you probably did

not do well on when taking them. I was taking fexophenadine and stopped that. I

lost almost 10# after doing so.

> > >

> > > Venizia

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks , I wish the same for you.

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

From: cindy.seeley <cindy.seeley@...>

Subject: Re: Reverse T3/dark day/Chuck

hypothyroidism

Date: Friday, April 10, 2009, 2:55 PM

Winters have always been the worst for me too!  For the past 6 years, I've done

everything possible to make just as much progress as possible through the summer

and just hoped not to slide back to worse than I was when summer started the

previous year...I ALWAYS lose ground in the winter, but for me, this winter has

been one of the best in years...I wish you could say the same, but maybe next

year...we'll both hope for you!

>

> You don't have to explain. I have had that too. One of the things that made a

difference was when I stopped taking zyrteck and anyn other antihistamine,

including nasal sprays. The difference was apparent in a day or two. 

>  

> I have fibromyalgia too, and I have lots of pain, but I can't take most

medications because of allergy or sensititvity, so I mostly have to just suffer

through. This winter has been horrendous, but I'm a bit better now. I dread what

will happen next winter as this one was

> so bad.

>

>

> Roni

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

This site seems to usually have reliable information. I'd particularly read the

sections on side effects to see if this medication is doing anything bad to you.

 

http://www.drugs.com/pdr/singulair.html

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

From: cindy.seeley <cindy.seeley@...>

Subject: Re: Reverse T3/dark day/Chuck

hypothyroidism

Date: Friday, April 10, 2009, 2:57 PM

I wonder if this includes Singulair?

>

> Roni,

>

> Antihistamines interfer with thyroid meds which is why you probably did not do

well on when taking them.  I was taking fexophenadine and stopped that. I lost

almost 10# after doing so.

>

> Venizia

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Thanks Roni!

> >

> > Roni,

> >

> > Antihistamines interfer with thyroid meds which is why you probably did not

do well on when taking them.  I was taking fexophenadine and stopped that. I

lost almost 10# after doing so.

> >

> > Venizia

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

It's definitely not an anti-histamine...it's a leukotrine antagonist (blocks

leukotrines). Also interesting was that for asthma (which is what my daughter

and I are both being treated with it for) it should be taken in the evening (my

doctor ordered this, but hers didn't). For seasonal allergies any time of day

is fine. I'll have to mention this to her. Thanks again Roni!

> >

> > Roni,

> >

> > Antihistamines interfer with thyroid meds which is why you probably did not

do well on when taking them.  I was taking fexophenadine and stopped that. I

lost almost 10# after doing so.

> >

> > Venizia

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

venizia1948 wrote:

>

>

>

> Then do you feel that the cause of the bad ratio is adrenal or ferritin

> levels being off OR can this be that I am just taking too much Armour

> which is making my Ft4 too high which in turn is creating the Rt3 ratio

> at 11 when it should be 20 or higher?

It could be any of those or several other potential causes. I thought we

went through all your tests about a year ago, though.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

You are right, we did go over tests before. At that point I was trying to find

out why I had hypo symptoms yet my tests said I was ok. At that time, you and I

started a discussion about Rt3. Since then I have tried to reduce the Rt3, by

taking just T3, thought I was doing well because I was feeling 100% better

except for not losing as much weight as I would have liked.

Now, even though I am still feeling well, My Rt3, Ft3 ratio is 11 which is only

..5 higher than when I was feeling very poorly. SO, I am stumped. I do not know

what I should do. I can't take HC if this adrenal. I understand that if I do

not correct the issue that is causing the Rt3, I will not be able to get rid of

it.

SOOOO I was hoping, because too much T4 can cause the Rt3, maybe it would be as

simple as reducing my Armour dose........You mention several other potential

causes. I know of adrenal or low ferritin. Can you tell me some of the other

causes. This is very frustrating and I appreciate you having helped me in the

past. I did not expect this outcome with this last batch of tests especially

because all the symptoms I had when first diagnosed with Rt3 were gone!

Venizia

-- In hypothyroidism , Chuck B <gumboyaya@...> wrote:

>

> venizia1948 wrote:

> >

> It could be any of those or several other potential causes. I thought we

> went through all your tests about a year ago, though.

>

> Chuck

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Chuck.

In the recent past, I checked my rT3 and it was at the top of the range.

FT3 was at the bottom of the range. Internet wisdom would have told me to

stop all T4 and take only T3. Right?

Problem is, any T3, even the tiny bit in 1/4 grain of Armour, caused my

potassium (K) to plunge and blood pressure (BP) to shoot up. Imagine what

the Internet-recommended levels of Cytomel would have done?

I have somewhat resolved the issue by taking spironolactone which keeps K

up. I've now been on 1/4 gr. Armour + T4 for over three months. So far, so

good. My point is that my body was holding T3 down for a reason.

..

Val

Posted by: " Chuck B "

Fri Apr 10, 2009 3:22 pm (PDT)

Val,

You asked:

> I do not understand the origin of all the Internet wisdom about rT3 and

FT3.

> Could you provide some reference about this ratio?

It is pretty standard endo stuff, since it was first studied in

connection with Grave's disease. Just Google discriminately. The

controversial part is over 's hypothesis that a positive feedback

loop causes RT3 to maintain its own production, something that is

sometimes called RT3 dominance. I would also be skeptical of any claims

about anti-aging.

[Guest guest]

Venizia,

You wrote:

> ... Now, even though I am still feeling well, My Rt3, Ft3 ratio is 11 which

> is only .5 higher than when I was feeling very poorly....

That is all it takes. As I said, your well being is sensitive to small

changes in that ratio.

If you are now feeling well, where's the beef? If all that is left to

correct is weight, the problem is probably not with the thyroid axis.

When you figure out what that is, please let the list know. There are

several billion people waiting for the answer.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Val,

You wrote:

> ... Internet wisdom would have told me to

> stop all T4 and take only T3. Right?

That is why I said to be discriminating in your use of Google. I trust

you also noted that I told Venizia there are many potential causes of

excess RT3.

Were you taking a different diuretic before? If so, the T3 may have

simply been potentiating the effect on potassium, rather than causing it.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your thoughts. I guess I will just go by how I feel which has always

been the motto for the NTH group.

Venizia

> > ... Now, even though I am still feeling well, My Rt3, Ft3 ratio is 11 which

> > is only .5 higher than when I was feeling very poorly....

>

> That is all it takes. As I said, your well being is sensitive to small

> changes in that ratio.

>

> If you are now feeling well, where's the beef? If all that is left to

> correct is weight, the problem is probably not with the thyroid axis.

> When you figure out what that is, please let the list know. There are

> several billion people waiting for the answer.

>

> Chuck

>

[Guest guest]

I have low potassium because I have primary aldosteronism. Spironolactone

blocks the effect of aldosterone and spares potassium. I had the T3 effect

(low K, high BP) while both on and off HCTZ.

Val

Posted by: " Chuck B "

You wrote:

> ... Internet wisdom would have told me to

> stop all T4 and take only T3. Right?

That is why I said to be discriminating in your use of Google. I trust

you also noted that I told Venizia there are many potential causes of

excess RT3.

Were you taking a different diuretic before? If so, the T3 may have

simply been potentiating the effect on potassium, rather than causing it.

[Guest guest]

Val, do you know what low aldosterone does? Mine was low, but I haven't a clue

what to do about that one...

>

> I have low potassium because I have primary aldosteronism. Spironolactone

> blocks the effect of aldosterone and spares potassium. I had the T3 effect

> (low K, high BP) while both on and off HCTZ.

>

> Val

[Guest guest]

For better or worse I take my Synthroid along with my antihistamine

every night.

..

..

>

> Posted by: " venizia1948 " nelsonck@...

>

<mailto:nelsonck@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Reverse%20T3%2Fdark%20day%2FCh\

uck>

> venizia1948 <venizia1948>

>

>

> Fri Apr 10, 2009 3:02 pm (PDT)

>

>

>

> I do not know. I know they say it works differently from other allergy

> meds. I would guess if it is an antihistamine, and I do not know that,

> it would not be good to take with thyroid meds.

>

> Venizia

[Guest guest]

,

It is supposed to lower TSH levels.  If you are not having a problem with it

great. But I would wonder what your TSH levels would be if you were NOT taking

it.

Venizia

From: <res075oh@...>

Subject: Re: Reverse T3/dark day/Chuck

hypothyroidism

Date: Monday, April 13, 2009, 1:12 PM

For better or worse I take my Synthroid along with my antihistamine

every night.

..

..

>

> Posted by: " venizia1948 " nelsoncksbcglobal (DOT) net

> <mailto:nelsoncksbcglobal (DOT) net?Subject=%20Re% 3A%20Reverse%

20T3%2Fdark% 20day%2FChuck>

> venizia1948 <http://profiles. / venizia1948>

>

>

> Fri Apr 10, 2009 3:02 pm (PDT)

>

>

>

> I do not know. I know they say it works differently from other allergy

> meds. I would guess if it is an antihistamine, and I do not know that,

> it would not be good to take with thyroid meds.

>

> Venizia

[Guest guest]

I wonder too, but very soon after I got to 75 mcg per day of Synthroid

my TSH returned to mid normal. Since I have no symptoms I don't have an

incentive to do a lot of experimenting. I've thought about trying

Armour to see if it would lower my cholesterol but haven't yet.

..

..

>

> Posted by: " Carol " nelsonck@...

>

<mailto:nelsonck@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Reverse%20T3%2Fdark%20day%2FCh\

uck>

> venizia1948 <venizia1948>

>

>

> Mon Apr 13, 2009 12:08 pm (PDT)

>

>

>

> ,

>

> It is supposed to lower TSH levels. If you are not having a problem

> with it great. But I would wonder what your TSH levels would be if you

> were NOT taking it.

>

> Venizia

>

>

> From: <res075oh@... <mailto:res075oh%40verizon.net>>

> Subject: Re: Reverse T3/dark day/Chuck

> hypothyroidism

> <mailto:hypothyroidism%40>

> Date: Monday, April 13, 2009, 1:12 PM

>

> For better or worse I take my Synthroid along with my antihistamine

>

> every night.

>

>