Re:Thyroid tests...what do I need to look for?

September 25, 2009

When you consider iodine be sure you visit sites other than the quack

sites that recommend several thousand percent of the RDA of iodine. The

large doses some people recommend [up to 50 or 100 mg/day if I have the

units right] have in rare cases caused undesirable side effects such as

illness and death. There has never been a location on earth were humans

would normally get the quantity of iodine often recommended; so how

could it be that we evolved to need so much more than is available

anywhere on the planet? It doesn't make any sense. The RDA is about

150 mcg [150 millionths of a gram] while the " iodine docs " recommend

50,000 mcg to 100,000 mcg. There is no credible support for such a need

anywhere; and a lot of credible evidence that says you don't need it for

ANYTHING.

Luck,

..

>

> Posted by: " kenancy2000 " kenancy2000@...

>

<mailto:kenancy2000@...?Subject=%20Re%3AThyroid%20tests%2E%2E%2Ewhat%20do%\

20I%20need%20to%20look%20for%3F>

> kenancy2000 <kenancy2000>

>

> Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:01 am (PDT)

>

> Hi all,

>

> Was a part of the group for a little while a couple years ago. Well,

> things got busy, and I have not been able to concentrate on my wife's

> possible thyroid issue much. She leaves these health things pretty

> much up to me, as it is all Greek to her. I don't mind at all.

>

> Anyway, for a couple years I have suspected she probably has a mild

> hypothyroid problem. Doesn't get sound sleep, hair thinning, dry skin

> for no reason, low libido, weight gain that doesn't go away very easy,

> and maybe a couple other things, typical stuff I've read about for

> people with hypo.

>

> So, she went to the doctor (we have Kaiser) and she had a " thyroid

> test " done, but all it measured was TSH and T4. The doctor (general

> practitioner) looked at it and said he doesn't think she has a thyroid

> problem.

>

> Can someone give me a brief rundown on the other specs that should be

> looked at? I think there was something about T3 and T7 and maybe a

> couple other things.

>

> I've been looking at Iodine lately, and feel this may be the key for

> my wife's possible thyroid issue. But I think a more comprehensive and

> updated test of her thyroid may be helpful too, but I'm blanking out

> on test details at the moment.

>

> Thank you,

> -Ken Bagwell

September 26, 2009

Hi , Thanks for the warning. It certainly is wise for me to look

into all the possibilities. And I don't doubt that there are people

(rare cases, as you put it) who have been harmed to some degree or other

by iodine. But then again, let's admit that almost any treatment

modality has it's potential drawbacks and " rare cases " . The book I've

read so far isn't shy about it's contents... " The information about

iodine that you will read in this book contradicts the information that

is contained in medical text books, medical Web sites and most health

books published for consumers. " I do think you might have some

misunderstanding, though. From what I'm reading so far about iodine

therapies, the high 50-100mg doses you mention are only temporary doses.

The idea is to fill the body with the amount of iodine it needs and to

simultaneously flush out mainly bromine (although fluorine and clorine

are probably included, too). But after that period (about 1-3 months of

high dosing) you drop far down to about 6-12 mg, on average. All this

is supposed to take place under professional guidance or advice, and

testing of iodine excretion and regular thyroid measurements are

supposed to take place to make sure everything is OK. The 12 or 13mg

dose range, from what I understand, is probably pretty minimal for

Japanese people, who consume a lot of sea vegetables. Figures are

possibly as high as 43 mg per day for the average Japanese person, as of

2001. I don't know why anyone would think Japanese people are poisoning

themselves with daily servings of sea vegetables that contains a lot of

iodine. From what I hear, the Japanese people are healthier and live

longer than the average American. I'm sure it's not due only to high

iodine intake. But if iodine is dangerous and daily consumed tens of

times higher than our RDA, the Japanese, as a nation, should be

suffering ill effects from it, right?

Do you happen to have any information about whether the Japanese suffer

health problems because of iodine? -Ken Bagwell

>

> When you consider iodine be sure you visit sites other than the quack

> sites that recommend several thousand percent of the RDA of iodine.

The

> large doses some people recommend [up to 50 or 100 mg/day if I have

the

> units right] have in rare cases caused undesirable side effects such

as

> illness and death. There has never been a location on earth were

humans

> would normally get the quantity of iodine often recommended; so how

> could it be that we evolved to need so much more than is available

> anywhere on the planet? It doesn't make any sense. The RDA is about

> 150 mcg [150 millionths of a gram] while the " iodine docs " recommend

> 50,000 mcg to 100,000 mcg. There is no credible support for such a

need

> anywhere; and a lot of credible evidence that says you don't need it

for

> ANYTHING.

>

> Luck,

>

> .

>

> >

> > Posted by: " kenancy2000 " kenancy2000@...

> >

<mailto:kenancy2000@...?Subject=%20Re%3AThyroid%20tests%2E%2E%2Ewhat%20d\

o%20I%20need%20to%20look%20for%3F>

> > kenancy2000 <kenancy2000>

> >

> > Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:01 am (PDT)

> >

> > Hi all,

> >

> > Was a part of the group for a little while a couple years ago. Well,

> > things got busy, and I have not been able to concentrate on my

wife's

> > possible thyroid issue much. She leaves these health things pretty

> > much up to me, as it is all Greek to her. I don't mind at all.

> >

> > Anyway, for a couple years I have suspected she probably has a mild

> > hypothyroid problem. Doesn't get sound sleep, hair thinning, dry

skin

> > for no reason, low libido, weight gain that doesn't go away very

easy,

> > and maybe a couple other things, typical stuff I've read about for

> > people with hypo.

> >

> > So, she went to the doctor (we have Kaiser) and she had a " thyroid

> > test " done, but all it measured was TSH and T4. The doctor (general

> > practitioner) looked at it and said he doesn't think she has a

thyroid

> > problem.

> >

> > Can someone give me a brief rundown on the other specs that should

be

> > looked at? I think there was something about T3 and T7 and maybe a

> > couple other things.

> >

> > I've been looking at Iodine lately, and feel this may be the key for

> > my wife's possible thyroid issue. But I think a more comprehensive

and

> > updated test of her thyroid may be helpful too, but I'm blanking out

> > on test details at the moment.

> >

> > Thank you,

> > -Ken Bagwell

>

September 27, 2009

The quotes of how much iodine is consumed by the Japanese is based upon

a study in which a gross error was made in the quantity consumed. It

was discovered that the consumed quantity was exaggerated by a factor of

10 due to a misunderstanding. The samples actually contained about 90%

water or other substances while the assumption had been that they were

taking the quoted quantity of dried kelp or what ever. While

corrections have been published world wide you still find the original

numbers quoted. Chuck has posted details of the original erroneous

study as well as the corrections published later and they should be in

the archives.

As for consuming 50 mg or 100 mg per day being a short term prescription

it certainly isn't for quite a number of advocates. Until a few months

back we had a patient on this list who had consumed 100 mg of iodine per

day for years or decades. In any event the methods suggested to measure

tissue saturation range from poorly thought out to totally bogus in many

of the forums. The advice you have quoted is completely different from

that published by the [in]famous " iodine docs " on this list.

Consumption of 10's of times RDA isn't what is suggested by the quacks;

it's thousands of times RDA.

If you choose to risk your own health or life then that is your choice

and I wish you well. I do object to those who come here and issue

blanket " prescriptions " that could harm or kill some careless person.

The health problems caused by excess consumption of iodine are well

documented and I'm sure you will encounter them if you continue your

research. Place " iodine toxicity " into Google for a start.

Perhaps more important: Ask yourself why we would have evolved to

require a level of iodine not found anywhere in the environment in which

we evolved?

Luck,

..

>

> Posted by: " kenancy2000 " kenancy2000@...

>

<mailto:kenancy2000@...?Subject=%20Re%3AThyroid%20tests%2E%2E%2Ewhat%20do%\

20I%20need%20to%20look%20for%3F>

> kenancy2000 <kenancy2000>

>

> Sat Sep 26, 2009 6:49 am (PDT)

>

> Hi , Thanks for the warning. It certainly is wise for me to look

> into all the possibilities. And I don't doubt that there are people

> (rare cases, as you put it) who have been harmed to some degree or other

> by iodine. But then again, let's admit that almost any treatment

> modality has it's potential drawbacks and " rare cases " . The book I've

> read so far isn't shy about it's contents... " The information about

> iodine that you will read in this book contradicts the information that

> is contained in medical text books, medical Web sites and most health

> books published for consumers. " I do think you might have some

> misunderstanding, though. From what I'm reading so far about iodine

> therapies, the high 50-100mg doses you mention are only temporary doses.

> The idea is to fill the body with the amount of iodine it needs and to

> simultaneously flush out mainly bromine (although fluorine and clorine

> are probably included, too). But after that period (about 1-3 months of

> high dosing) you drop far down to about 6-12 mg, on average. All this

> is supposed to take place under professional guidance or advice, and

> testing of iodine excretion and regular thyroid measurements are

> supposed to take place to make sure everything is OK. The 12 or 13mg

> dose range, from what I understand, is probably pretty minimal for

> Japanese people, who consume a lot of sea vegetables. Figures are

> possibly as high as 43 mg per day for the average Japanese person, as of

> 2001. I don't know why anyone would think Japanese people are poisoning

> themselves with daily servings of sea vegetables that contains a lot of

> iodine. From what I hear, the Japanese people are healthier and live

> longer than the average American. I'm sure it's not due only to high

> iodine intake. But if iodine is dangerous and daily consumed tens of

> times higher than our RDA, the Japanese, as a nation, should be

> suffering ill effects from it, right?

> Do you happen to have any information about whether the Japanese suffer

> health problems because of iodine? -Ken Bagwell

>

> >

> > When you consider iodine be sure you visit sites other than the quack

> > sites that recommend several thousand percent of the RDA of iodine.

> The

> > large doses some people recommend [up to 50 or 100 mg/day if I have

> the

> > units right] have in rare cases caused undesirable side effects such

> as

> > illness and death. There has never been a location on earth were

> humans

> > would normally get the quantity of iodine often recommended; so how

> > could it be that we evolved to need so much more than is available

> > anywhere on the planet? It doesn't make any sense. The RDA is about

> > 150 mcg [150 millionths of a gram] while the " iodine docs " recommend

> > 50,000 mcg to 100,000 mcg. There is no credible support for such a

> need

> > anywhere; and a lot of credible evidence that says you don't need it

> for

> > ANYTHING.

> >

> > Luck,

> >

> > .

September 28, 2009

Hi ,

First, I think evolution is utter non-sense. So any talk about evolution

won't be of any help to the conversation.

Anyway, perhaps your talk of the " gross error " is mentioned in this text

by Guy E. Abraham. Please let me know if this is what you are referring

to, and inform me what the gross error is. It would be most helpful.

" Gaby mentioned that the calculation we used to estimate the average

daily intake of mainland Japanese was based on dry weight whereas the

data in Nagataki's publication on iodine in seaweed was reported per wet

weight. Quoting from that article: 'For example, the dry weight of such

food as " tangle " (Laminaria) contains 0.3% iodine1 and this may be eaten

in quantities as large as 10 g daily.' This daily intake would compute

to 30mg of elemental iodine. However, on page 643 of the same article,

Nagataki et al misquoted their Reference #13, that is our Reference #26,

when they stated: '…according to the statistics of the Ministry of

Health and Welfare, the average daily intake of seaweed was 4.6 g (wet

weight),' when in fact, that Organization confirmed by a phone interview

(6/21/05) that their data on seaweed are always expressed as dry weight.

For example, in table 8 of Nagataki's Reference #13, values for seaweed

consumption for several years from 1950 to 1963 are listed in gms of dry

weight, confirmed by the Japanese Ministry of Health and Welfare. We

have compiled some of these data in our Table II, taken from reference

13 of Nagataki's article. The value of 4.6 g that Nagataki quoted as wet

weight was actually expressed as dry weight and Nagataki used the value

for the year 1963 only, that is, 4.6 gm. Nagataki et al mentioned

correctly dry weight on page 638 at the beginning of their article, and

for some unknown reason, they erroneously mentioned wet weight on page

643 of the same publication, which is confusing. We have relied,

therefore, on the original information supplied by the Japanese Ministry

of Health and Welfare, that is Nagataki's Reference #13, and our

reference #26.

The average daily intake of iodine by mainland Japanese in 1963 was 13.8

mg, based on information supplied by the Japanese Ministry of Health,

which used only dry weight in their calculations, confirmed by a phone

interview of one of us (GEA) on June 21, 2005, with officials of this

organization (See Table II). "

See the full article here:

http://www.townsendletter.com/Oct2005/gabyrebuttal1005.htm

<http://www.townsendletter.com/Oct2005/gabyrebuttal1005.htm> -Ken

Bagwell

> > >

> > > When you consider iodine be sure you visit sites other than the

quack

> > > sites that recommend several thousand percent of the RDA of

iodine.

> > The

> > > large doses some people recommend [up to 50 or 100 mg/day if I

have

> > the

> > > units right] have in rare cases caused undesirable side effects

such

> > as

> > > illness and death. There has never been a location on earth were

> > humans

> > > would normally get the quantity of iodine often recommended; so

how

> > > could it be that we evolved to need so much more than is available

> > > anywhere on the planet? It doesn't make any sense. The RDA is

about

> > > 150 mcg [150 millionths of a gram] while the " iodine docs "

recommend

> > > 50,000 mcg to 100,000 mcg. There is no credible support for such a

> > need

> > > anywhere; and a lot of credible evidence that says you don't need

it

> > for

> > > ANYTHING.

> > >

> > > Luck,

> > >

> > > .

>

September 28, 2009

kenancy2000 wrote:

> Hi ,

>

> First, I think evolution is utter non-sense. So any talk about evolution

> won't be of any help to the conversation.

Actually, discussions about the well grounded theory of evolution (like

the " theory " of gravity) might not help you and a few others who also

might believe in a flat earth, that Zeus lives on mount Olympus, that

lighting is sent by God or the Gods (hence many irrational people

believe then that lin was trying to defy God by inventing

the lighting rod) or any other irrational, mythical, or superstitious

belief system.

FRANKLIN'S LIGHTNING-ROD.

http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/whitek04.html

Religion in every age of the world in all its multiple irrational

varieties is " utter non-sense " to use your wording. So, your particular

god or gods blessed you with thyroid problems. What imperfection!

You'd think he could do better than that.

" Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you’d have

good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for

good people to do bad things, it takes religion. "

- Nobel physicist Weinberg

My favorite god today is the Egyptian God " Ra " .

Hail to the Sun God,

O, What a fun God,

Ra, Ra, Ra.

Now, we return you to your regularly scheduled programming.

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

September 28, 2009

Not taking the bate, Steve.

-Ken Bagwell

> > Hi ,

> >

> > First, I think evolution is utter non-sense. So any talk about evolution

> > won't be of any help to the conversation.

>

> Actually, discussions about the well grounded theory of evolution (like

> the " theory " of gravity) might not help you and a few others who also

> might believe in a flat earth, that Zeus lives on mount Olympus, that

> lighting is sent by God or the Gods (hence many irrational people

> believe then that lin was trying to defy God by inventing

> the lighting rod) or any other irrational, mythical, or superstitious

> belief system.

>

> FRANKLIN'S LIGHTNING-ROD.

> http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/whitek04.html

>

> Religion in every age of the world in all its multiple irrational

> varieties is " utter non-sense " to use your wording. So, your particular

> god or gods blessed you with thyroid problems. What imperfection!

> You'd think he could do better than that.

>

> " Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have

> good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for

> good people to do bad things, it takes religion. "

> - Nobel physicist Weinberg

>

> My favorite god today is the Egyptian God " Ra " .

>

> Hail to the Sun God,

> O, What a fun God,

> Ra, Ra, Ra.

>

> Now, we return you to your regularly scheduled programming.

>

> --

>

> Steve - dudescholar4@...

>

September 28, 2009

kenancy2000,

You wrote:

>

> Anyway, perhaps your talk of the " gross error " is mentioned in this text

> by Guy E. Abraham. Please let me know if this is what you are referring

> to, and inform me what the gross error is. It would be most helpful.

and Dr. Gaby are quite correct. Average Japanese consumption of

iodine is less than 1/10 of what Dr. Abraham reported:

http://www.liebertonline.com/doi/abs/10.1089/thy.2007.0379

Nevertheless, this is higher than in other countries, and several

studies have shown chronic excess iodine consumption, even at these

lower levels, to be associated with risk of hypothyroidism:

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/78/2/393

Chuck

September 28, 2009

No problem. All you have to do is replace my reference to evolution with

the phrase " created by God " and you get the idea. Why would God create

us to need a quantity of iodine NEVER found in the environment? And

anyone who is a deist can also replace " God " with the preferred creature

from their personal creation myth.

..

>

> Posted by: " kenancy2000 " kenancy2000@...

>

<mailto:kenancy2000@...?Subject=%20Re%3AThyroid%20tests%2E%2E%2Ewhat%20do%\

20I%20need%20to%20look%20for%3F>

> kenancy2000 <kenancy2000>

>

> Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:20 pm (PDT)

>

> Hi ,

>

> First, I think evolution is utter non-sense. So any talk about evolution

> won't be of any help to the conversation.

>

> Anyway, perhaps your talk of the " gross error " is mentioned in this text

> by Guy E. Abraham. Please let me know if this is what you are referring

> to, and inform me what the gross error is. It would be most helpful.

>

> " Gaby mentioned that the calculation we used to estimate the average

> daily intake of mainland Japanese was based on dry weight whereas the

> data in Nagataki's publication on iodine in seaweed was reported per wet

> weight. Quoting from that article: 'For example, the dry weight of such

> food as " tangle " (Laminaria) contains 0.3% iodine1 and this may be eaten

> in quantities as large as 10 g daily.' This daily intake would compute

> to 30mg of elemental iodine. However, on page 643 of the same article,

> Nagataki et al misquoted their Reference #13, that is our Reference #26,

> when they stated: '…according to the statistics of the Ministry of

> Health and Welfare, the average daily intake of seaweed was 4.6 g (wet

> weight),' when in fact, that Organization confirmed by a phone interview

> (6/21/05) that their data on seaweed are always expressed as dry weight.

>

> For example, in table 8 of Nagataki's Reference #13, values for seaweed

> consumption for several years from 1950 to 1963 are listed in gms of dry

> weight, confirmed by the Japanese Ministry of Health and Welfare. We

> have compiled some of these data in our Table II, taken from reference

> 13 of Nagataki's article. The value of 4.6 g that Nagataki quoted as wet

> weight was actually expressed as dry weight and Nagataki used the value

> for the year 1963 only, that is, 4.6 gm. Nagataki et al mentioned

> correctly dry weight on page 638 at the beginning of their article, and

> for some unknown reason, they erroneously mentioned wet weight on page

> 643 of the same publication, which is confusing. We have relied,

> therefore, on the original information supplied by the Japanese Ministry

> of Health and Welfare, that is Nagataki's Reference #13, and our

> reference #26.

>

> The average daily intake of iodine by mainland Japanese in 1963 was 13.8

> mg, based on information supplied by the Japanese Ministry of Health,

> which used only dry weight in their calculations, confirmed by a phone

> interview of one of us (GEA) on June 21, 2005, with officials of this

> organization (See Table II). "

>

> See the full article here:

> http://www.townsendletter.com/Oct2005/gabyrebuttal1005.htm

> <http://www.townsendletter.com/Oct2005/gabyrebuttal1005.htm>

> <http://www.townsendletter.com/Oct2005/gabyrebuttal1005.htm

> <http://www.townsendletter.com/Oct2005/gabyrebuttal1005.htm>> -Ken

> Bagwell

>

> >

> > The quotes of how much iodine is consumed by the Japanese is based

> upon

> > a study in which a gross error was made in the quantity consumed. It

> > was discovered that the consumed quantity was exaggerated by a factor

> of

> > 10 due to a misunderstanding. The samples actually contained about 90%

> > water or other substances while the assumption had been that they were

> > taking the quoted quantity of dried kelp or what ever. While

> > corrections have been published world wide you still find the original

> > numbers quoted. Chuck has posted details of the original erroneous

> > study as well as the corrections published later and they should be in

> > the archives.

> >

> > As for consuming 50 mg or 100 mg per day being a short term

> prescription

> > it certainly isn't for quite a number of advocates. Until a few months

> > back we had a patient on this list who had consumed 100 mg of iodine

> per

> > day for years or decades. In any event the methods suggested to

> measure

> > tissue saturation range from poorly thought out to totally bogus in

> many

> > of the forums. The advice you have quoted is completely different from

> > that published by the [in]famous " iodine docs " on this list.

> >

> > Consumption of 10's of times RDA isn't what is suggested by the

> quacks;

> > it's thousands of times RDA.

> >

> > If you choose to risk your own health or life then that is your choice

> > and I wish you well. I do object to those who come here and issue

> > blanket " prescriptions " that could harm or kill some careless person.

> > The health problems caused by excess consumption of iodine are well

> > documented and I'm sure you will encounter them if you continue your

> > research. Place " iodine toxicity " into Google for a start.

> >

> > Perhaps more important: Ask yourself why we would have evolved to

> > require a level of iodine not found anywhere in the environment in

> which

> > we evolved?

> >

> > Luck,

> >

September 28, 2009

Hi . I see even after my prolonged absence you're the same I knew

before. LOL However it's worded though, my sentiments about lots of iodine are

negative. I do wish people would read many different research sites before they

agree with a particular position. Iodine can be very dangerous for some. For

others, I guess more than the norm might be needed, but if one is eating a

normal western diet, I don't think it's likely.

Roni