Re: Re: Fw: [thyroidless] Dr Jefferies - Safe Uses of Cortisol

[Guest guest]

???? what did it explain for you? to me the results are misleading. it

took your adrenals ALL DAY to produce adequate cortisol, and then they overshot

the mark. treat your symptoms not hte test. I knew my adrenals were really

gone when I couldn't sleep at night---after a week on cortef I was sleeping like

baby and still do.

gracia

A 24 hour urine test is good if you are trying to determine total cortisol,

but most of us have other issues, like now cortisol in the morning, but

HIGH cortisol at night, which keeps us up late at night, so that is why the

saliva is much more accurate. I did both on me and I am SO glad that I did,

I found out that my evening cortisol was very high and that explained a lot

for me.

Mia

_____

From: hypothyroidism

[mailto:hypothyroidism ] On Behalf Of Nancie

Barnett

Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 9:09 PM

hypothyroidism

Subject: Re: Re: Fw: [thyroidless] Dr Jefferies -

Safe Uses of Cortisol

But, it doesn't. Prudence used to use the salvia cortisol tests and the 24

hour urine tests, but she found that the salvia test results were not

accurate and so she researched it and found out why; that the salvia has

proteins in it that bind to the cortisol. This causes the cortisol to be

unavailable to the lab regents which makes the results skewed. Now all she

uses is the 24 hour urine tests.

[Guest guest]

oh. you take cortef! good.

gracia

Nope, not true, I was on 40mg of cortisol and lost a lot of weight! Now I

take 20mg and am still losing weight and I have NO side effects whatsoever

on cortisol, except I can breath now and I don't have to take asthma and

allergy medicines anymore!! Woo-Hoo - now that is a great side effect!!

Mia

Yes, but even people with totally destroyed/absent adrenals have side

effects from small replacement doses of cortisol: e.g. weight gain.

Marla

[Guest guest]

Mia, the reason you can breathe and don't need so much asthma

medicnes is that cortisol is a STEROID. I know that people using

this don't want to know that, but that's the reality.  Eventually,

log term use of steroids harms the body, in many different ways,

eyes, blood vessels, nerves, recurrent infections, etc.

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

From: Gracia <circe@...>

Subject: Re: Re: Fw: [thyroidless] Dr Jefferies - Safe

Uses of Cortisol

hypothyroidism

Date: Thursday, March 26, 2009, 10:06 AM

  oh.  you take cortef!  good.

  gracia

  Nope, not true, I was on 40mg of cortisol and lost a lot of weight! Now I

  take 20mg and am still losing weight and I have NO side effects whatsoever

  on cortisol, except I can breath now and I don't have to take asthma and

  allergy medicines anymore!! Woo-Hoo - now that is a great side effect!!

  Mia

 

  Yes, but even people with totally destroyed/absent adrenals have side

  effects from small replacement doses of cortisol: e.g. weight gain.

  Marla

 

[Guest guest]

What if adrenal fatigue and low cortisol is a nutritional deficiency. Aren't

you just masking the symptoms by taking yet another hormone?

________________________________

From: Gracia <circe@...>

hypothyroidism

Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 10:06:24 AM

Subject: Re: Re: Fw: [thyroidless] Dr Jefferies - Safe

Uses of Cortisol

oh. you take cortef! good.

gracia

Nope, not true, I was on 40mg of cortisol and lost a lot of weight! Now I

take 20mg and am still losing weight and I have NO side effects whatsoever

on cortisol, except I can breath now and I don't have to take asthma and

allergy medicines anymore!! Woo-Hoo - now that is a great side effect!!

Mia

Yes, but even people with totally destroyed/absent adrenals have side

effects from small replacement doses of cortisol: e.g. weight gain.

Marla

[Guest guest]

That's a very interesting point. Man was not designed to take drugs to fix

things, and it could very well be that many of the health issues we deal with

are nutritional deficiencies of one sort or another. I do think that there are

conditions that have been caused by the pollution in which we all live, and I

wonder if even many of those conditions could be cured or controlled by the

proper nutrition. The catch comes in because these systems in our bodies are so

magnificently complicated, and start on a sub atomic level that we don't always

know exactly how it works or what kind of nutrition would alleviate it. Then, of

course, we all continue to live in pollution, so we may be on the right track

but the pollution is doing its damage at the same time we are administering a

" cure " , which can't be cured because we're continually getting damaged.

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

From: <kennio@...>

Subject: Re: Re: Fw: [thyroidless] Dr Jefferies - Safe

Uses of Cortisol

hypothyroidism

Date: Thursday, March 26, 2009, 10:52 AM

What if adrenal fatigue and low cortisol is a nutritional deficiency.  Aren't

you just masking the symptoms by taking yet another hormone?

________________________________

From: Gracia <circe@...>

hypothyroidism

Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 10:06:24 AM

Subject: Re: Re: Fw: [thyroidless] Dr Jefferies - Safe

Uses of Cortisol

oh.  you take cortef!  good.

gracia

Nope, not true, I was on 40mg of cortisol and lost a lot of weight! Now I

take 20mg and am still losing weight and I have NO side effects whatsoever

on cortisol, except I can breath now and I don't have to take asthma and

allergy medicines anymore!! Woo-Hoo - now that is a great side effect!!

Mia

Yes, but even people with totally destroyed/absent adrenals have side

effects from small replacement doses of cortisol: e.g. weight gain.

Marla

[Guest guest]

Linus ing said that all disease is caused by mineral deficiency.

________________________________

From: Roni Molin <matchermaam@...>

hypothyroidism

Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 11:15:05 AM

Subject: Re: Re: Fw: [thyroidless] Dr Jefferies - Safe

Uses of Cortisol

That's a very interesting point. Man was not designed to take drugs to fix

things, and it could very well be that many of the health issues we deal with

are nutritional deficiencies of one sort or another. I do think that there are

conditions that have been caused by the pollution in which we all live, and I

wonder if even many of those conditions could be cured or controlled by the

proper nutrition. The catch comes in because these systems in our bodies are so

magnificently complicated, and start on a sub atomic level that we don't always

know exactly how it works or what kind of nutrition would alleviate it. Then, of

course, we all continue to live in pollution, so we may be on the right track

but the pollution is doing its damage at the same time we are administering a

" cure " , which can't be cured because we're continually getting damaged.

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

From: <kennio (DOT) com>

Subject: Re: Re: Fw: [thyroidless] Dr Jefferies - Safe

Uses of Cortisol

hypothyroidism

Date: Thursday, March 26, 2009, 10:52 AM

What if adrenal fatigue and low cortisol is a nutritional deficiency. Aren't

you just masking the symptoms by taking yet another hormone?

____________ _________ _________ __

From: Gracia <circefairpoint (DOT) net>

hypothyroidism

Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 10:06:24 AM

Subject: Re: Re: Fw: [thyroidless] Dr Jefferies - Safe

Uses of Cortisol

oh. you take cortef! good.

gracia

Nope, not true, I was on 40mg of cortisol and lost a lot of weight! Now I

take 20mg and am still losing weight and I have NO side effects whatsoever

on cortisol, except I can breath now and I don't have to take asthma and

allergy medicines anymore!! Woo-Hoo - now that is a great side effect!!

Mia

Yes, but even people with totally destroyed/absent adrenals have side

effects from small replacement doses of cortisol: e.g. weight gain.

Marla

[Guest guest]

Hi . Very interesting. Since I have been on synthroid after tsh levels

peaked at 34 I no longer have strange day dreams which seemed like psychosis. I

watched what was going on and it seemed like bizarre pictures like what one

remembers from dreams were filtering through into consciousness. Can you explain

that? Thanks.

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

Re: Fw: [thyroidless] Dr Jefferies - Safe Uses

of Cortisol

Research at sleep labs show that while some people claim to never dream

if they are awakened at various times and immediately questions there is

basically _always_ some kind of dreams or mentation going on. What

actually happens is that in those who don't remember dreams the

conversion from short term to long term memory does not occur, so the

dreams are forgotten.

The fact is you are probably _never_ actually unconscious when you

sleep. What happens is that when you go to sleep you transition from a

subjective mental state that is created from data input from the

objective universe to a subjective mental state in which the input is

created within the brain. Although external stimuli may be included.

Since the critical faculty tends to be disabled at such times our dreams

can be totally bizarre, while the brain does the best it can to make

some kind of " story " to fit the often disjointed and chaotic input.

I have personally done a lot of experimenting with lucid dreams and the

hypnogogic state and have used the latter to go directly from the awake

state to the asleep/dreaming state with no loss of consciousness or of

my train of thought many dozens or hundreds of times. Unfortunately I

can no longer do so.

I would suspect that in your case something has happened that

facilitates the conversion of short term memory to long term memory, so

you now remember your dreams.

..

..

>

> Posted by: " cindy.seeley " cindy.seeley@...

>

<mailto:cindy.seeley@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Fw%3A%20%5Bthyroidless%5D%20Dr\

%20%20Jefferies%20-%20Safe%20Uses%20of%20Cortisol>

> cindy.seeley <cindy.seeley>

>

>

> Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:54 am (PDT)

>

> Some of these people on the adrenal board do supplement iodine as part

> of their regimen, and do find that it is helping them. My husband and

> I have started iodine as well (with my doctor's approval), but so far,

> I haven't noticed any improvement in either of us. If anything, I am

> tireder after taking it. I fall asleep within a couple hours after I

> take it if I don't stay on my feet and keep moving, which my back

> won't take. I had hoped that the iodine supplementation would

> eventually allow me to reduce my thyroid meds, but so far, it's not

> looking like that is going to happen...then again, they say sleep is

> when our bodies do the most healing, so maybe I just need to go with

> the flow and sleep a lot allowing my body to heal all it needs to.

> After years of no dreams, since the increase in thyroid meds, I

> finally started dreaming again. In the last 24 hours, I dreamed a lot!

> I didn't start supplementing the iodine until I had worked my way up

> on the Armour, so we're in our 2nd month...so far, with no detox

> symptoms either, but I also started us with support supplements at the

> same time.

>

[Guest guest]

" The physical complaints are primarily related to metabolic slowing secondary to

lack of thyroid hormone. Psychiatric presentations include cognitive

dysfunction, affective disorders, and psychosis. "

http://www.psychiatrist.com/pcc/abstracts/pcc050603.htm

________________________________

From: " sunlend@... " <sunlend@...>

hypothyroidism

Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 12:04:50 PM

Subject: Re: Re: Fw: [thyroidless] Dr Jefferies - Safe

Uses of Cortisol

Hi . Very interesting. Since I have been on synthroid after tsh levels

peaked at 34 I no longer have strange day dreams which seemed like psychosis. I

watched what was going on and it seemed like bizarre pictures like what one

remembers from dreams were filtering through into consciousness. Can you explain

that? Thanks.

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

Re: Fw: [thyroidless] Dr Jefferies - Safe Uses

of Cortisol

Research at sleep labs show that while some people claim to never dream

if they are awakened at various times and immediately questions there is

basically _always_ some kind of dreams or mentation going on. What

actually happens is that in those who don't remember dreams the

conversion from short term to long term memory does not occur, so the

dreams are forgotten.

The fact is you are probably _never_ actually unconscious when you

sleep. What happens is that when you go to sleep you transition from a

subjective mental state that is created from data input from the

objective universe to a subjective mental state in which the input is

created within the brain. Although external stimuli may be included.

Since the critical faculty tends to be disabled at such times our dreams

can be totally bizarre, while the brain does the best it can to make

some kind of " story " to fit the often disjointed and chaotic input.

I have personally done a lot of experimenting with lucid dreams and the

hypnogogic state and have used the latter to go directly from the awake

state to the asleep/dreaming state with no loss of consciousness or of

my train of thought many dozens or hundreds of times. Unfortunately I

can no longer do so.

I would suspect that in your case something has happened that

facilitates the conversion of short term memory to long term memory, so

you now remember your dreams.

..

..

>

> Posted by: " cindy.seeley " cindy.seeley@ gmail.com

> <mailto:cindy.seeley@ gmail.com?Subject=%20Re% 3A%20Fw%3A%

20%5Bthyroidless %5D%20Dr% 20% 20Jefferies% 20-%20Safe% 20Uses%20of%

20Cortisol>

> cindy.seeley <http://profiles. / cindy.seeley>

>

>

> Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:54 am (PDT)

>

> Some of these people on the adrenal board do supplement iodine as part

> of their regimen, and do find that it is helping them. My husband and

> I have started iodine as well (with my doctor's approval), but so far,

> I haven't noticed any improvement in either of us. If anything, I am

> tireder after taking it. I fall asleep within a couple hours after I

> take it if I don't stay on my feet and keep moving, which my back

> won't take. I had hoped that the iodine supplementation would

> eventually allow me to reduce my thyroid meds, but so far, it's not

> looking like that is going to happen...then again, they say sleep is

> when our bodies do the most healing, so maybe I just need to go with

> the flow and sleep a lot allowing my body to heal all it needs to.

> After years of no dreams, since the increase in thyroid meds, I

> finally started dreaming again. In the last 24 hours, I dreamed a lot!

> I didn't start supplementing the iodine until I had worked my way up

> on the Armour, so we're in our 2nd month...so far, with no detox

> symptoms either, but I also started us with support supplements at the

> same time.

>

[Guest guest]

,

You wrote:

>

> ... I have personally done a lot of experimenting with lucid dreams and the

> hypnogogic state ... Unfortunately I

> can no longer do so.

Me too.

Now it only seems to happen with certain otc cold medications.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

my BB doc used http://www.antibodyassay.com

gracia

Hi venizia-

I am not sure. It depends if the PCP believes in natural medicine. The lab

that it was sent to, was not a local lab. It was I believe in Washington

state. Prudence hall told me that not too many local labs do this kind of

testing and that is why she send it out of state.

I posted the name a while back on the list, so I will have to try and find

that email. I don't have any of the paperwork anymore. But, I am due to go

in to recheck my labs for the new year. I could find out then.

There is a book called " From Fatigued to Fantastic " by Teitelbaum, MD

that talks about

Fibro and chronic fatigue. I recommend that either your sister get it or

both of you get it. I have the book because I too have fibro and chronic

fatigue and lupus.

Here is the direct link at amazon.com

http://www.amazon

com/Fatigued-Fantastic--Teitelbaum/dp/1583332898/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8

s=books & qid=1238009353 & sr=8-1

hugs,

nancie

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.28/2022 - Release Date: 03/25/09

07:16:00

[Guest guest]

No. It is the way they do the calculations. All I know is I got 3 results.

Prudence Hall, MD swears by them and she says other top thyroid MD [ can't

remember his name at the moment]who uses armour also uses this testing

method. I think if the salvia method worked she would use it, but

obliviously it doesn't, because the proteins in the salvia bind with the

cortisol and skew the results.

The other MD in the office doesn't use the salvia testing either. So

apparently they are both in agreement.

-------Original Message-------

So are you saying this test was based on 3 8-hour batches of urine collected

over a 24 hour period?

--- .

[Guest guest]

my symptoms! and I trusted my Broda doc.

gracia

When you got three different values on three different tests, what made you

decide

which one was accurate?

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

From: Gracia <circe@...>

Subject: Re: Re: Fw: [thyroidless] Dr Jefferies -

Safe Uses of Cortisol

hypothyroidism

Date: Sunday, March 22, 2009, 7:37 PM

blood testing for cortisol is inaccurate. I did blood, saliva and 24 hr

urine and got 3 completely different values---normal, high and low.

Gracia

Hi Roni!

This article is discussing side-effects of pharmacological doses. The book

Darla is referring to by Dr. Jefferies is discussing cortisol (hydrocortisone)

in physiological dosages...very, very different. The physiological doses are

only recommended after saliva testing that determines that there is even a need.

Without saliva testing, it would be unadvisable and possibly even

dangerous...for example, my blood serum cortisol test showed that in the

afternoon, my cortisol levels are double the upper limit. I am hoping that since

T3 uses cortisol to get to the cells that my increased Armour dosage will get my

cortisol levels down to where they should be. This seems to be happening since

my temps are no longer shooting up in the afternoons, but I haven't confirmed

this with lab tests yet.

> http://www.vitamins-supplements.org/hormones/cortisol.php

>

>

>

----------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.24/2017 - Release Date: 03/22/09

17:51:00

[Guest guest]

what kind of iodine? lugols/Iodoral? those are the the recommended ones.

then there is the dose--IMO minimum is 50mg. I dreamed a lot when I first

started iodine at 50mg.

gracia

Some of these people on the adrenal board do supplement iodine as part of

their regimen, and do find that it is helping them. My husband and I have

started iodine as well (with my doctor's approval), but so far, I haven't

noticed any improvement in either of us. If anything, I am tireder after taking

it. I fall asleep within a couple hours after I take it if I don't stay on my

feet and keep moving, which my back won't take. I had hoped that the iodine

supplementation would eventually allow me to reduce my thyroid meds, but so far,

it's not looking like that is going to happen...then again, they say sleep is

when our bodies do the most healing, so maybe I just need to go with the flow

and sleep a lot allowing my body to heal all it needs to. After years of no

dreams, since the increase in thyroid meds, I finally started dreaming again. In

the last 24 hours, I dreamed a lot! I didn't start supplementing the iodine

until I had worked my way up on the Armour , so we're in our 2nd month...so far,

with no detox symptoms either, but I also started us with support supplements at

the same time.

>

>

> the key to getting well starts with iodine which is a very big deal. find a

doc who understands how to use iodine and how to use hormones and which tests

are actually accurate.

> Gracia

>

>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.29/2024 - Release Date: 03/26/09

07:12:00

[Guest guest]

well I spent 30 years doing everything I could POSSIBLY do to correct

deficiencies. it didn't work. although now I am taking high dose

iodine/iodide and ATP cofactors and maybe that will heal adrenals. I think it

has lessened my need for sex hormones but I am still trying to figure that one

out. I will report back if I can heal adrenals. I really like cortef and see

no downsides to it, in spite of the dire warnings posted here )

gracia

What if adrenal fatigue and low cortisol is a nutritional deficiency. Aren't

you just masking the symptoms by taking yet another hormone?

________________________________

From

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.29/2024 - Release Date: 03/26/09

07:12:00

[Guest guest]

what dose of Lugols???

Lugols from the Breath of Life... www.thebreathoflife.net

I bought Dr. Brownstein's book on Amazon and it was shipped from the Breath of

Life along with a bottle of Lugols (I actually ordered a 2nd bottle at the same

time, figuring if we didn't use it orally, it would still be good for external

use). I started dreaming before I started the iodine; after my Armour was

increased to be precise. I didn't start the iodine until after I had adjusted to

the increased Armour. Most people that take iodine seem to claim it makes them

have lots more energy, but I always get really tired after I take it and often

end up falling asleep within minutes after I sit down. I have a bad back, so I

am suppose to alternate between sitting/standing or lay down, every 15 minutes.

I cannot stand in place more than 5 minutes without paying the consequences...I

have a 5 pound weight restriction, with up to 10 pounds occasionally.

>

>

> what kind of iodine? lugols/Iodoral? those are the the recommended ones.

then there is the dose--IMO minimum is 50mg. I dreamed a lot when I first

started iodine at 50mg.

> gracia

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.29/2024 - Release Date: 03/26/09

07:12:00

[Guest guest]

You are doing everyone a great disservice making a statement like that. I hear

that same argument over and over, " I did everything I could POSSIBLY do to

correct deficiencies. it didn't work. " . Whether it's someone's argument for

taking an antidepressant, drug or even cortef. It's just not true in most

cases.

Have you EVER had a RBC analysis or any type of loading tests to see what your

deficiencies are? I know you haven't even checked Iodine. Do you carry the

gene that make absorbing folate or b12 hard to absorb? EXATEST, Spectrox??

Lets face it you barely scratched the surface of nutrition before you decided to

take cortisol.... and there is nothing wrong with that. Leading people astray is

not admirable whether its coming from you or an allopathic doctor. You have no

idea what you're deficient in and probably never will. Isn't that more of the

truth?

________________________________

From: Gracia <circe@...>

hypothyroidism

Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 8:19:17 AM

Subject: Re: Re: Fw: [thyroidless] Dr Jefferies - Safe

Uses of Cortisol

well I spent 30 years doing everything I could POSSIBLY do to correct

deficiencies. it didn't work. although now I am taking high dose

iodine/iodide and ATP cofactors and maybe that will heal adrenals. I think it

has lessened my need for sex hormones but I am still trying to figure that one

out. I will report back if I can heal adrenals. I really like cortef and see

no downsides to it, in spite of the dire warnings posted here )

gracia

What if adrenal fatigue and low cortisol is a nutritional deficiency. Aren't you

just masking the symptoms by taking yet another hormone?

____________ _________ _________ __

From

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.29/2024 - Release Date: 03/26/09

07:12:00

[Guest guest]

To do a 24 hour urine, you collect multiple urination's over a 24 hour

period into a single container kept in the fridge and then it is analysed

in a lab with computers and very precise instruments and they can tell over

a 24 hour period what your levels are.

BUT my point is that the salvia cortisol test is Inaccurate because Cortisol

Binds with the Proteins that are present in the salvia of every human on the

planet and that skews the results. With the cortisol bound to proteins, they

are Not available to be tested and thus the results are Incorrect. That is

what prudence Hall and other natural medicine MD's have found out.

-- Re: Fw: [thyroidless] Dr Jefferies - Safe

Uses of Cortisol

So one specimen collected over a 24 hour time frame? This sounds like they

just extracted 3 samples from the same specimen and got three different

results? How accurate can that be? It would seem like an average of the 3

would be more accurate, overall...?

>

>

>

..

[Guest guest]

Iodine had no effect on my Hashimoto's and several other hashi's on the Iodine

forum found the same thing. However, Iodine did nothing for me either even

after reaching full saturation.

________________________________

From: <res075oh@...>

hypothyroidism

Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 8:16:07 AM

Subject: Re: Fw: [thyroidless] Dr Jefferies - Safe Uses

of Cortisol

I don't think T3 and T4 control antibodies; if that's wrong perhaps

someone will correct it. They naturally vary with the course of

Hashimoto's. Iodine has been shown in well controlled studies to be

associated with worsening of Hashimoto's condition.

..

..

>

> Posted by: " Nora Alves " noraalves (DOT) com

> <mailto:noraalves (DOT) com?Subject=%20Re% 3A%20Fw%3A% 20%5Bthyroidless

%5D%20Dr% 20% 20Jefferies% 20-%20Safe% 20Uses%20of% 20Cortisol>

> noraalves <http://profiles. / noraalves>

>

>

> Sat Mar 28, 2009 1:04 am (PDT)

>

>

>

> Hi Gracia

>

> I am doing so well since starting on iodine. However, I am still

> struggling with adrenals and dont know where to buy decent Cortef

> without a prescription as my doctor has not agreed to this. Initially

> I had very high antibodies and through high doses of T3/T4 my doctor

> managed to get my antibodies down to virtually zero. Up till then I

> had been too fearful of trying iodine as everyone always said there

> would be worsening health. Then I figured that since my antibodies

> were down I could start the iodine. I started with the drops, and on

> your recommendations slowly increased and I am comfortable on 11 drops

> per day. I found when I went to 13 drops per day (even 12) was too

> much as I broke out in spots especially on my face.

>

> I am also really interested in what you say about sex hormones. What

> are they; what doses does one take, and finally which website to get

> these from that ship internationally.

>

> Blessings to everyone and may we continue to learn so much from each

> other's experiences.

>

> Nora.