Re: Iodine vs Bromine in a Euthroid Person

[Guest guest]

From:

iodine [mailto:iodine ] On Behalf Of Lidia

Seebeck

Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 11:25 AM

iodine

Subject: RE: Re: Iodine vs Bromine in a Euthroid Person

Hi Lydia,

and I have had a private conversation regarding said " whole

discussion " and since I made part of this mess, I'll try to reiterate a

couple of things that may clarify my impression of this chat group.

The

problem with " research " is that we find a problem with the allopathic

medical mindset regarding research. Without going into a discussion of why I

have a problem with said research, it's simply not of much value to me as a

practitioner other than a general guideline if indeed I find the research to be

credible. Also, I have found very little research regarding this subject other

than what has been previously mentioned. If you or anyone has research

regarding this, I would like to see it. What I do find credible from an

application standpoint is the " anecdotal " experiences of the people

on this chat site, as it helps me to troubleshoot situations in which my

clients have problems. Naturopathy in my opinion mirrors what is going on on

this chat site in that each person is viewed as an individual, with specific

and varying needs, and specific and varying responses to medicines and/or

supplements or whatever. Unfortunately, I think you may be still thinking with

the allopathic mindset. For simplicity of illustration, if you ingest 6.25 mg

of X, Y. will happen without further complications. That often proves not to be

the case. Were you to be a client of mine, I doubt that I would be telling you

about the possibility of a detox reaction. I would simply assess from various

criteria specifically associated with you that which you needed, and try to

keep in communication with you should you have problems of any sort. In a

previous post, a scenario was described of anaphylaxis, and the reason that

that person ingested the Iodoral at our facility was that we determined from

his history that he might have a potential problem, and we wanted to be able to

help him through it so that he would have a good experience. I have never had

another instance even remotely similar to this one. I monitor the posts on this

site because I learn from them. This is one of the few sites that I would

recommend to clients that want to improve their knowledge base regarding

iodine/thyroid related issues. There are several of them, included

that have a whole lot more knowledge than I do about iodine, as well as having

had experiences that I hopefully will never have.

I

applaud your predilection to be cautious. I believe there is sufficient

information on this site to be able to glean that which you need to accomplish

your purpose with iodine, whatever it may be. You may be missing the fact that

that which you depicted as " call in the biochemistry brains " can be

found here.

Again,

my understanding of this site is that it's predisposition is not research, but

practical application, as well as support and encouragement.

Practical

application: HERE research: SOMEWHERE ELSE

Dennis Dvorak

I’ve

been noting this whole discussion with great interest given that I am very

interested in iodine but haven’t actually started yet.

Here’s

what I am seeing. I’m not a doctor but I do have some knowledge of the

scientific method, as I hold a degree in agronomy.

Seems like

there are a whole lot of correlation studies out there in the medical journals

where they take a batch of however many people and ask them a bunch of

questions and roll that through the statistics to arrive at an answer. Of

course, the larger the study the better the results. Three thousand isn’t

a huge dataset, but it is not insignificant either. It would be interesting to

know—what percentage of subscribers are using high dose iodine, what

percent are using lower doses of iodine, and what percent are like me, biting

my nails on the sidelines and wondering.

I

don’t know what Mike’s big concern is. I know mine is what exactly

is going on with the detox reactions you are all having. It sounds like you

really suffer. The concern from what I am seeing is—is that really all

bromide, or is there a point where iodine DOES become an issue? And what really

is the average Japanese intake of iodine/iodide? I mean, if it really is the

12-13 mg that’s very significant but if it’s the .9mg figure I have

also seen then that’s quite another finding.

Mind you

I’m not disparaging anyone here, it’s wonderful that you are taking

charge of your health. I’m no fan of allopathy not of Big pHARMa.

It’s just there is a point where you need to call in the biochemistry

brains and this does feel like one of those situations.

One

question I would ask, has anyone ever tracked a bromide detox over time, like

say every week? In other words, someone taking Iodoral 50mg every day as some

of you do, has anyone ever tracked bromide levels in the body before, and urine

results every week (or other close interval) over several months to a year? I

think that would be very interesting.

Lidia

the experiences both individual and

collective would have at very least preliminary characteristics of that

" research " sans the allopathic mindset.

[Guest guest]

how long were you on the iodine before you could reduce the meds?? did you have hashi's?From: Pamela Valley <2007pams@...>iodine Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2009 12:57:41 PMSubject: Re: Re: Iodine vs Bromine in a Euthroid Person

Mike,I also wonder if there are many of us who started with one pill for a week, went up to two pills the next week and then 3 in another week and stayed at 4 pills or 50 mg for 18 months or longer with no major side effects. This was done while using the other supplements and salt as stated. Maybe those of us who have a ho-hum experience haven't mentioned it to the list either. The most that had was headache and bit of rash on legs for few days. Otherwise all the changes have been positive. Am using half as much armour now and even thremography now shows have my thyroid is now warm and working. Have shrunk breast lump from 1 cm to half cm in last 4 months and eliminated the majority of lumps. My current doctors have no objections but also no knowledge of iodine treatment. My chiropractor is Japanese and does confirm the 12-13 mg figure as the average for eating in Japan. She did have me back off to 37.5

recently because I am fighting RA again and wanted to slow detoxing down and on more meds and liver was reacting to that. Health is a dance and we are each individuals and have to be careful of our choices. Pam

[Guest guest]

> Again, my understanding of this site is that it's predisposition

> is not research, but practical application, as well as support and

> encouragement.

>

>

>

> Practical application: HERE research: SOMEWHERE ELSE

It's very hard to separate one from the other. People on here get in the habit

of looking at the " whole " like in holistic medicine so it's not entirely

practical to talk about application without research findings. Every article and

book on health I have ever read has both if it's worth anything. The practical

is the how and the research is the why.

Also someone mentioned earlier that there may be people not reporting ho-hum

experiences with iodine and I think that's true. With any chat group I have been

on, usually people don't report what goes against the grain. It's human nature

but if we are seeking the truth and trying to hone things down as is done in the

process of reevaluation of protocols, the more known about varied experiences,

the better for finding patterns. In a few years I bet there will be more infor.

on the iodine protocol. It may not even mean a change in the protocol but there

will be more details about it, like a better understanding of the variety of

reactions, better details on who should stay on it for certain amounts of time

and why. That's just natural, that our understanding increases, so people should

really be honest without fear of dismissal when reporting their experiences and

that could bring us one step closer to understanding things better and better.

As Mike said open discussion won't take away from the validity of the iodine

protocol.

[Guest guest]

I don't get why one would need more than 50 mg for an extended period of time? I

am not making making a judgement and am just curious. >50 mg seems like way more

than would ever be consumed naturally even in the ideal enviornment and why

wouldn't 50 mg detox just as well? Also how does one know it is not having the

opposite effect as shown in some some studies.

[Guest guest]

i haven't been tested for hashis though have other autoimmune diseases going on so likely have it. It was about a year to 15 months before I realized that I needed to reduce the armour. Someone else might have this earlier but my body takes longer than most to detox. Had a gallstone block my liver up 4 years ago which made liver (and kidneys a bit) very vulnerable though 2 surgeries took care of the crisis...both need to be babied at times these days just a little or the enzymes rise again. The liver dumped the contents into my bloodstream so more toxins to remove too. Pam

On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 12:21 PM, dawn volz <dawnv5@...> wrote:

 

how long were you on the iodine before you could reduce the meds?? did you have hashi's?

From: Pamela Valley <2007pams@...>

iodine Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2009 12:57:41 PM

Subject: Re: Re: Iodine vs Bromine in a Euthroid Person

 

Mike,I also wonder if there are many of us who started with one pill for a week, went up to two pills the next week and then 3 in another week and stayed at 4 pills or 50 mg for 18 months or longer with no major side effects. This was done while using the other supplements and salt as stated. Maybe those of us who have a ho-hum experience haven't mentioned it to the list either. The most that had was headache and bit of rash on legs for few days. Otherwise all the changes have been positive. Am using half as much armour now and even thremography now shows have my thyroid is now warm and working. Have shrunk breast lump from 1 cm to half cm in last 4 months and eliminated the majority of lumps. My current doctors have no objections but also no knowledge of iodine treatment. My chiropractor is Japanese and does confirm the 12-13 mg figure as the average for eating in Japan. She did have me back off to 37.5

recently because I am fighting RA again and wanted to slow detoxing down and on more meds and liver was reacting to that. Health is a dance and we are each individuals and have to be careful of our choices. Pam

[Guest guest]

1. From

Merriam Webster: HOLISTIC 2. relating to or concerned with whole

or with complete systems rather than with the analysis of, treatment of or

dissection into parts <holistic medicine attempts to treat both the mind and

body> <holistic ecology reviews to humans and the environment as a single

system>

2. Again, my understanding of this site is that it's

predisposition

> is not research, but practical application, as well as support and

> encouragement.

>

>

>

> Practical application: HERE research: SOMEWHERE ELSE

Can't compete with someone that spells holistically

wholistically (note that I haven't looked up the meaning of wholistically), and

quotes fragments of previous posts that put a spin on whatever supports

their position.

Sorry , I don't have time for this nonsense.

Dennis Dvorak

From:

iodine [mailto:iodine ] On Behalf Of crayfishfeed

Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 2:31 PM

iodine

Subject: Re: Iodine vs Bromine in a Euthroid Person

> Again, my understanding of this site is

that it's predisposition

> is not research, but practical application, as well as support and

> encouragement.

>

>

>

> Practical application: HERE research: SOMEWHERE ELSE

It's very hard to separate one from the other. People on here get in the habit

of looking at the " whole " like in holistic medicine so it's not

entirely practical to talk about application without research findings. Every

article and book on health I have ever read has both if it's worth anything. The

practical is the how and the research is the why.

Also someone mentioned earlier that there may be people not reporting ho-hum

experiences with iodine and I think that's true. With any chat group I have

been on, usually people don't report what goes against the grain. It's human

nature but if we are seeking the truth and trying to hone things down as is

done in the process of reevaluation of protocols, the more known about varied

experiences, the better for finding patterns. In a few years I bet there will

be more infor. on the iodine protocol. It may not even mean a change in the

protocol but there will be more details about it, like a better understanding

of the variety of reactions, better details on who should stay on it for

certain amounts of time and why. That's just natural, that our understanding

increases, so people should really be honest without fear of dismissal when

reporting their experiences and that could bring us one step closer to

understanding things better and better. As Mike said open discussion won't take

away from the validity of the iodine protocol.

[Guest guest]

I take 100mg Iodoral per day b/c I feel best at that dose. I am using

it like a medicine, not like a supplement.

gracia

wrote:

>

>

> I don't get why one would need more than 50 mg for an extended period

> of time? I am not making making a judgement and am just curious. >50

> mg seems like way more than would ever be consumed naturally even in

> the ideal enviornment and why wouldn't 50 mg detox just as well? Also

> how does one know it is not having the opposite effect as shown in

> some some studies.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Who spelled " holistic " " Wholistic " ?

I hope you are not referrring to my post or you need to re-read. The posts by

myself, Mike and Lidia are anything but nonsense. The only nonsense I see is

someone refusing to see a legitimate differing point of view. And actually this

point of view doesn't even take away from you point of view b/c no one is

arguing to switch over from anecdotal based application themes on here to

strictly research.

So I guess in order to disagree with you I have to, line by line, address every

sentence in your postings b/c according to you I am spinning fragments of what

you said. You are not familiar with the processes of debate are you? I am sorry

these interactions don't bemuse you anymore and you have to take your ball and

go home, but some of us just happen to have certain questions and concerns that

may be assuaged with reading more about the research, and we think the very

asking of them does not take away from the validity of the protocol. The

protocol is not made of egg shells, it can handle a few questions here and there

and not break apart. If anything the people who want to read more are now

directed to iodine4health since they brought up their concerns.

>

> 1. From Merriam Webster: HOLISTIC 2. relating to or concerned with

> whole or with complete systems rather than with the analysis of, treatment

> of or dissection into parts <holistic medicine attempts to treat both the

> mind and body> <holistic ecology reviews to humans and the environment as a

> single system>

>

> 2. Again, my understanding of this site is that it's predisposition

> > is not research, but practical application, as well as support and

> > encouragement.

> >

> >

> >

> > Practical application: HERE research: SOMEWHERE ELSE

>

> Can't compete with someone that spells holistically wholistically (note

> that I haven't looked up the meaning of wholistically), and quotes fragments

> of previous posts that put a spin on whatever supports their position.

>

> Sorry , I don't have time for this nonsense.

>

>

>

> Dennis Dvorak

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> From: iodine [mailto:iodine ] On Behalf Of

> crayfishfeed

> Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 2:31 PM

> iodine

> Subject: Re: Iodine vs Bromine in a Euthroid Person

>

>

>

>

>

> > Again, my understanding of this site is that it's predisposition

> > is not research, but practical application, as well as support and

> > encouragement.

> >

> >

> >

> > Practical application: HERE research: SOMEWHERE ELSE

>

> It's very hard to separate one from the other. People on here get in the

> habit of looking at the " whole " like in holistic medicine so it's not

> entirely practical to talk about application without research findings.

> Every article and book on health I have ever read has both if it's worth

> anything. The practical is the how and the research is the why.

>

> Also someone mentioned earlier that there may be people not reporting ho-hum

> experiences with iodine and I think that's true. With any chat group I have

> been on, usually people don't report what goes against the grain. It's human

> nature but if we are seeking the truth and trying to hone things down as is

> done in the process of reevaluation of protocols, the more known about

> varied experiences, the better for finding patterns. In a few years I bet

> there will be more infor. on the iodine protocol. It may not even mean a

> change in the protocol but there will be more details about it, like a

> better understanding of the variety of reactions, better details on who

> should stay on it for certain amounts of time and why. That's just natural,

> that our understanding increases, so people should really be honest without

> fear of dismissal when reporting their experiences and that could bring us

> one step closer to understanding things better and better. As Mike said open

> discussion won't take away from the validity of the iodine protocol.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Mike...I hope you continue to post because it is input like yours that makes

this site objective rather than dominating subjectivity. That being said, even

with the subjectivity, I have gleaned much from this site; however, I wonder why

more N.D. Endocrinologists are not jumping on board the iodine protocol wagon?

Could what you are saying, Mike, be partly the reason? My daughter's N.D.

Endocrinologist told me people in this part of the U.S. get as much iodine that

they need from the iodine in salt and seafood.

>

> It seems that this discussion is going in circles, and most of the points

being made are not being addressed by the responses. But Dennis, you have

pointed out indirectly exactly what I'm saying. You had a patient who had an

anaphylactic reaction to iodine. Then you were able to convince that patient to

stay with the iodine protocol. Your patient could have died under different

circumstances. Then you wouldn't have needed to convince her of anything.

>

>

> btw, this discussion has been interesting, but I won't be writing anymore

lengthy responses, as I just don't have time. So if anyone chooses to respond

and I don't respond back, no offense meant.

>

> Mike

>

>

>

> --- I

[Guest guest]

hi, can you elaborate more about what symptoms were resolved when you upped the dose of Iodoral to 100 mgs. I occasionally have this troubling tight sensation in my chest. it has improved when starting on Iodoral but i still get it occassionally and wondered if upping the dose would help but am afraid to up it from 50 mgs per day.Does anyone get tightness in chest?

In a message dated 10/7/2009 10:03:21 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, circe@... writes:

I take 100mg Iodoral per day b/c I feel best at that dose. I am using it like a medicine, not like a supplement.gracia wrote:> >> I don't get why one would need more than 50 mg for an extended period > of time? I am not making making a judgement and am just curious. >50 > mg seems like way more than would ever be consumed naturally even in > the ideal enviornment and why wouldn't 50 mg detox just as well? Also > how does one know it is not having the opposite effect as shown in > some some studies.>> ------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

I think my biggest symptoms were feeling tired, brain fogged,

hypothyroid. when I increased Iodoral to 100mg those symptoms went

away and I felt good. the only time I have felt bad on iodine is when

the dose was too low.

gracia

HART518@... wrote:

>

>

> hi, can you elaborate more about what symptoms were resolved when you

> upped the dose of Iodoral to 100 mgs. I occasionally have this

> troubling tight sensation in my chest. it has improved

> when starting on Iodoral but i still get it occassionally and

> wondered if upping the dose would help but am afraid to up it from 50

> mgs per day.Does anyone get tightness in chest?

>

> In a message dated 10/7/2009 10:03:21 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

> circe@... writes:

>

> I take 100mg Iodoral per day b/c I feel best at that dose. I am

> using

> it like a medicine, not like a supplement.

> gracia

>

> wrote:

> >

> >

> > I don't get why one would need more than 50 mg for an extended

> period

> > of time? I am not making making a judgement and am just curious.

> >50

> > mg seems like way more than would ever be consumed naturally

> even in

> > the ideal enviornment and why wouldn't 50 mg detox just as well?

> Also

> > how does one know it is not having the opposite effect as shown in

> > some some studies.

> >

> >

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

>

>

>