Guest guest Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 The iodine loading test uses a completely different range for "iodine sufficiency" than the traditional urine test for iodine. When Abraham and Flechas were first developing the iodine loading test, the regular labs used to panic when they saw the results on the urine tests because they were so much higher than they were used to. Zoe I have Hashi's and I took the iodine loading urine test with four Iodoral pills. I actually felt energetic and clear headed that day. My testshowed iodine dificiency.However, I asked my endo to do a Quest Lab 24 hour urine test for iodine, my result was "high" in iodine. Why?I love to know has anyone else tried to compare these urine tests, one with iodine loading vs one without iodine loading 24 hour urine tests?mei Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2007 Report Share Posted July 14, 2007 Sam wrote: > > > I'm sure there are. It makes no sense for there not to be. Name one, then. Why would there be a test for a condition that no one recognizes except the folks at Optimox? There are a few outside that circle that will consider the possibility of high doses of iodine working as a therapy, as a medication, but it cannot be seen as a nutritional deficiency when the RDA is what is added to table salt. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2007 Report Share Posted July 14, 2007 what? the prob is that iodine used to be used as a med in high doses, safely and effectively. Iodoral/Lugols is not some new and dangerous experiment. Naturopaths and holistic MDs use megadoses of nutrients, above the RDA, all the time. I take 100mg of B vitamins every day. Now allopathic docs are using higher doses of vitamin D, but only b/c big pharma is marketing synthetic vitamin D to them. Gracia Sam wrote: > > > I'm sure there are. It makes no sense for there not to be. Name one, then. Why would there be a test for a condition that no one recognizes except the folks at Optimox? There are a few outside that circle that will consider the possibility of high doses of iodine working as a therapy, as a medication, but it cannot be seen as a nutritional deficiency when the RDA is what is added to table salt. Chuck ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.5/899 - Release Date: 7/13/2007 3:41 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2007 Report Share Posted July 14, 2007 Ok, for you I called my ex-BF and asked him to look on his last lab sheet. They did not list the specific " names " of the 2 iodine tests he had, but it listed " blood iodine " and " urine iodine " with ranges. Not testing for a specific " disease " , just testing to determine where he fell in the ranges. The lab in Ferndale, Wa apparently hadn't done these types of tests for many years. I'll dig deeper after the weekend. My BF is visiting... Sam :-D > > > > > > I'm sure there are. It makes no sense for there not to be. > > Name one, then. > > Why would there be a test for a condition that no one recognizes except > the folks at Optimox? There are a few outside that circle that will > consider the possibility of high doses of iodine working as a therapy, > as a medication, but it cannot be seen as a nutritional deficiency when > the RDA is what is added to table salt. > > Chuck > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2007 Report Share Posted July 14, 2007 Gracia, You wrote: > > ... iodine used to be used as a med in high doses, safely > and effectively.... As a medication. The issue is deficiency, a test for deficiency. >...Naturopaths and holistic MDs use megadoses of nutrients, above the RDA, > all the time. That does not mean that there is a deficiency in any of those nutrients. These are therapeutic doses, not replacements to get up to the RDA. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2007 Report Share Posted July 14, 2007 Sam, You wrote: > Ok, for you I called my ex-BF and asked him to look on his last lab > sheet. They did not list the specific " names " of the 2 iodine tests > he had, but it listed " blood iodine " and " urine iodine " with ranges. Most of the iodine in our blood is in the thyroxines. Most of that in our urine is the metabolic products of T3 and RT3. So, what these measure is effectively total T4+T3. We're talking about measuring a nutritional deficiency that requires tens of mgs of iodine to correct. If either the blood or urine levels, it would have indicated a deficiency of less than 1/4 mg per day. There is no test that indicates deficiencies of tens of mg/day. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2007 Report Share Posted July 14, 2007 Exactly who decides on the RDA, and by what criteria? Roni --- Chuck B <gumboyaya@...> wrote: > Gracia, > > You wrote: > > > > ... iodine used to be used as a med in high doses, > safely > > and effectively.... > > As a medication. The issue is deficiency, a test for > deficiency. > > >...Naturopaths and holistic MDs use megadoses of > nutrients, above the RDA, > > all the time. > > That does not mean that there is a deficiency in any > of those nutrients. > These are therapeutic doses, not replacements to get > up to the RDA. > > Chuck > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2007 Report Share Posted July 14, 2007 Um I thought it this was about you saying there were no mainstream iodine tests, and I was sure there were. Obviously my ex BF (who's doc is definitely mainstream) had 2 iodine tests done. And to see what his iodine level was in blood and urine. The loading test basically does the same thing, but by using a specific amount of ingested iodine/iodide to see how much we pee out, and how much we retain. And I would say this is a test for iodine SUFFICIENCY... Oh, about reversing iodine deficiency? Um, hey, frm what I understand, people can take less Iodoral, but it would just take way longer to reverse the deficiency. Approx 50mg has been reported to be the most effective dose. I guess if I took 25mg Iodoral, by FBD would have taken twice (or more) as long to reverse, and if I was taking 12.5mg it may have taken much much muuuch longer... Sam :-D > > Ok, for you I called my ex-BF and asked him to look on his last lab > > sheet. They did not list the specific " names " of the 2 iodine tests > > he had, but it listed " blood iodine " and " urine iodine " with ranges. > > Most of the iodine in our blood is in the thyroxines. Most of that in > our urine is the metabolic products of T3 and RT3. So, what these > measure is effectively total T4+T3. We're talking about measuring a > nutritional deficiency that requires tens of mgs of iodine to correct. > If either the blood or urine levels, it would have indicated a > deficiency of less than 1/4 mg per day. There is no test that indicates > deficiencies of tens of mg/day. > > Chuck > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2007 Report Share Posted July 14, 2007 Wasn't it a couple of cranky iodine haters from a hundred or so years ago, and they just picked a number out of the air? Hahaha Sam :-D > > Exactly who decides on the RDA, and by what criteria? > > Roni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2007 Report Share Posted July 14, 2007 Sam wrote: > > > Um I thought it this was about you saying there were no mainstream > iodine tests, and I was sure there were.... No, the original question was whether your mainstream doctor would have a better test, equivalent in what it measures, to the Abraham Flecha Uptake Test, since that one is not valid. My answer is that mainstream medicine does not recognize the condition which that test supposedly measures. Of course there are tests that measure iodine concentration. Essentially every test on a thyroid panel measures iodine. What you won't find on any recognized panel is something with the potential to tell you you need to take 50 mg of iodine per day. That you are an iodine vacuum. The WHO sets a lower limit on iodine in urine. Below that level you are deemed iodine deficient and directed to take at least 150 mcg per day. That is a very different condition than the one Abraham claims to be measuring. A healthy human contains about 15-20 mg of iodine total, less than half that if deficient. Nearly 90% of that iodine is in the thyroid gland. So, if your thyroid gland is not working, and you are more than replacing its iodine by taking Armour, then your 50-60 mg/day is mostly ending up in the toilet. If that is creating a beneficial effect, it is due to therapeutic effect and not due to correction of a deficiency. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2007 Report Share Posted July 15, 2007 Chuck, I feel the iodine loading test is a valid test. I do not possess a thyroid gland...uh-oh, where's all that iodine it used to have in it? Apparently I did not pee out ANY of the ingested 50mg Iodoral according to my first iodine loading test. You said 15-20 mg of iodine is in the entire human body, and you said half that [7.5-10mg] is considered deficient. And we know 150mcg is only the amount to prevent goiter and cretinism. SO WHY IS THE RDA " ONLY " 150mcg? How in the world is 150mcg going to give a deficient body 7.5-10mg? I am a little weirded out...or have I just had too much cherry pie? Sam :-o ===== No, the original question was whether your mainstream doctor would have a better test, equivalent in what it measures, to the Abraham Flecha Uptake Test, since that one is not valid. My answer is that mainstream medicine does not recognize the condition which that test supposedly measures. Of course there are tests that measure iodine concentration. Essentially every test on a thyroid panel measures iodine. What you won't find on any recognized panel is something with the potential to tell you you need to take 50 mg of iodine per day. That you are an iodine vacuum. The WHO sets a lower limit on iodine in urine. Below that level you are deemed iodine deficient and directed to take at least 150 mcg per day. That is a very different condition than the one Abraham claims to be measuring. A healthy human contains about 15-20 mg of iodine total, less than half that if deficient. Nearly 90% of that iodine is in the thyroid gland. So, if your thyroid gland is not working, and you are more than replacing its iodine by taking Armour, then your 50-60 mg/day is mostly ending up in the toilet. If that is creating a beneficial effect, it is due to therapeutic effect and not due to correction of a deficiency. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2007 Report Share Posted July 15, 2007 Sam, Please enjoy your pie. You wrote: > ... Apparently I did not pee out ANY of the ingested 50mg Iodoral > according to my first iodine loading test. The loading test ignores the possibility that iodine could go elsewhere besides urine. The protein bound fraction almost entirely will end up in feces. Some iodine even evaporates from skin. > > You said 15-20 mg of iodine is in the entire human body, and you said half > that [7.5-10mg] is considered deficient. And we know 150mcg is only the > amount to prevent goiter and cretinism. SO WHY IS THE RDA " ONLY " 150mcg?... Because for 98% of the population, the RDA is sufficient to maintain the 15-20 mg in storage. All the RDA has to do is to exceed the normal excretion rate, and what is in storage builds. When you are deficient, your excretion rate slows to almost nil. Thus, it would take about five weeks to recover from a 5 mg shortfall, at which time the excretion rate increases to 150 mcg, matching the RDA input. Without a thyroid, you will have less than 5 mg in storage, most of that in T4 and T3 that you ingest. Thus, it would be difficult, if not impossible to have more than about a 5 mg deficiency. The one recognized exception is that about 1 mg goes into your breasts when pregnant. Thus, a 50 mg per day input is a therapeutic dose, using iodine as a drug, not a nutrient. Iodine may work very well as a drug, but that does not mean that you have a deficiency. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2007 Report Share Posted July 15, 2007 I do not think tests matter very much. If you have symptoms of iodine deficiency, or symptoms that iodine/iodide can alleviate, then just take it at the therapeutic dose. It takes 3 years of high dose iodine to treat fibrocystic breasts. If you have hypo or hyperthyroidism take high dose until you can reduce dose. Especially use iodine if you have sex organ cancers. It will not kill you, it will help you. please pass the pie. Gracia > Sam, > > Please enjoy your pie. > > You wrote: >> ... Apparently I did not pee out ANY of the ingested 50mg Iodoral >> according to my first iodine loading test. > > The loading test ignores the possibility that iodine could go elsewhere > besides urine. The protein bound fraction almost entirely will end up in > feces. Some iodine even evaporates from skin. > >> >> You said 15-20 mg of iodine is in the entire human body, and you said >> half >> that [7.5-10mg] is considered deficient. And we know 150mcg is only the >> amount to prevent goiter and cretinism. SO WHY IS THE RDA " ONLY " >> 150mcg?... > > Because for 98% of the population, the RDA is sufficient to maintain the > 15-20 mg in storage. All the RDA has to do is to exceed the normal > excretion rate, and what is in storage builds. When you are deficient, > your excretion rate slows to almost nil. Thus, it would take about five > weeks to recover from a 5 mg shortfall, at which time the excretion rate > increases to 150 mcg, matching the RDA input. > > Without a thyroid, you will have less than 5 mg in storage, most of that > in T4 and T3 that you ingest. Thus, it would be difficult, if not > impossible to have more than about a 5 mg deficiency. The one recognized > exception is that about 1 mg goes into your breasts when pregnant. > > Thus, a 50 mg per day input is a therapeutic dose, using iodine as a > drug, not a nutrient. Iodine may work very well as a drug, but that does > not mean that you have a deficiency. > > Chuck > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2007 Report Share Posted July 16, 2007 Isn't it 9 parts in urine and 1 part in feces? Or something like that - the majority is excreted via urine. I google searched this phrase: " iodine excretion in urine and feces " Oh, and, on top of not having a thyroid gland, I don't have ovaries either. Uh-oh. Based on the info in that 1930's dog study I mentined befoore, the absence of thyroid " and " ovaries resulted in iodine level to drop dramatically. Sam > > ... Apparently I did not pee out ANY of the ingested 50mg Iodoral > > according to my first iodine loading test. > > The loading test ignores the possibility that iodine could go elsewhere > besides urine. The protein bound fraction almost entirely will end up in > feces. Some iodine even evaporates from skin. > > > > > You said 15-20 mg of iodine is in the entire human body, and you said half > > that [7.5-10mg] is considered deficient. And we know 150mcg is only the > > amount to prevent goiter and cretinism. SO WHY IS THE RDA " ONLY " 150mcg?... > > Because for 98% of the population, the RDA is sufficient to maintain the > 15-20 mg in storage. All the RDA has to do is to exceed the normal > excretion rate, and what is in storage builds. When you are deficient, > your excretion rate slows to almost nil. Thus, it would take about five > weeks to recover from a 5 mg shortfall, at which time the excretion rate > increases to 150 mcg, matching the RDA input. > > Without a thyroid, you will have less than 5 mg in storage, most of that > in T4 and T3 that you ingest. Thus, it would be difficult, if not > impossible to have more than about a 5 mg deficiency. The one recognized > exception is that about 1 mg goes into your breasts when pregnant. > > Thus, a 50 mg per day input is a therapeutic dose, using iodine as a > drug, not a nutrient. Iodine may work very well as a drug, but that does > not mean that you have a deficiency. > > Chuck > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2007 Report Share Posted July 16, 2007 Sam, May I ask, were you already in menopause when you had your ovaries removed? I had one ovary removed 3 years ago and am wondering, if because I was already in menopause at the time, would that matter as far as iodine levels or maybe that has no correlation. Come to think of it, it was after that surgery that I started putting on all this weight and not feeling as good as I did before the surgery. I was on Synthroid at the time. Now I am wondering if my iodine levels are low. I have been on Armour for 4 months and 3 grains a day at this time. Venizia > > > ... Apparently I did not pee out ANY of the ingested 50mg Iodoral > > > according to my first iodine loading test. > > > > The loading test ignores the possibility that iodine could go > elsewhere > > besides urine. The protein bound fraction almost entirely will end > up in > > feces. Some iodine even evaporates from skin. > > > > > > > > You said 15-20 mg of iodine is in the entire human body, and you > said half > > > that [7.5-10mg] is considered deficient. And we know 150mcg is > only the > > > amount to prevent goiter and cretinism. SO WHY IS THE RDA " ONLY " > 150mcg?... > > > > Because for 98% of the population, the RDA is sufficient to > maintain the > > 15-20 mg in storage. All the RDA has to do is to exceed the normal > > excretion rate, and what is in storage builds. When you are > deficient, > > your excretion rate slows to almost nil. Thus, it would take about > five > > weeks to recover from a 5 mg shortfall, at which time the excretion > rate > > increases to 150 mcg, matching the RDA input. > > > > Without a thyroid, you will have less than 5 mg in storage, most of > that > > in T4 and T3 that you ingest. Thus, it would be difficult, if not > > impossible to have more than about a 5 mg deficiency. The one > recognized > > exception is that about 1 mg goes into your breasts when pregnant. > > > > Thus, a 50 mg per day input is a therapeutic dose, using iodine as > a > > drug, not a nutrient. Iodine may work very well as a drug, but that > does > > not mean that you have a deficiency. > > > > Chuck > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2007 Report Share Posted July 16, 2007 No, I was 21, very healthy, and I got someone else's hysterectomy instead of getting my tubes tied - was a mistake. Sam :-( > > Sam, > > May I ask, were you already in menopause when you had your ovaries removed? I had one > ovary removed 3 years ago and am wondering, if because I was already in menopause at > the time, would that matter as far as iodine levels or maybe that has no correlation. Come > to think of it, it was after that surgery that I started putting on all this weight and not > feeling as good as I did before the surgery. I was on Synthroid at the time. Now I am > wondering if my iodine levels are low. I have been on Armour for 4 months and 3 grains a > day at this time. > > Venizia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2007 Report Share Posted July 18, 2007 A mistake !?!??? :-( In a message dated 7/16/07 2:26:24 AM, k9gang@... writes: > > No, I was 21, very healthy, and I got someone else's hysterectomy > instead of getting my tubes tied - was a mistake. > > Sam :-( > > > > > > Sam, > > > > May I ask, were you already in menopause when you had your ovaries > removed? I had one > > ovary removed 3 years ago and am wondering, if because I was > already in menopause at > > the time, would that matter as far as iodine levels or maybe that > has no correlation. Come > > to think of it, it was after that surgery that I started putting on > all this weight and not > > feeling as good as I did before the surgery. I was on Synthroid at > the time. Now I am > > wondering if my iodine levels are low. I have been on Armour for 4 > months and 3 grains a > > day at this time. > > > > Venizia > > ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 Thank you. It happened when I was 21, and I'm now 55. When I first learned of the mistake, believe me, I completely freaked out. I was just a kid. But, ya know, life goes on...and thankfully I am replacing the hormones that my ovaries would have made, if I still had them, and I'm healthy. Uh, healthy at my own hands... <wink> Sam :-D > > Wow Sam, I am so sorry you had to go thru that. It must have been life altering! You > sound like an amazing person; so bubbly and such a good attitude. I am not sure I would > have come thru this as well as you have. I can understand your disenchantment with > doctors. I am disenchanted with them also but I have not had to deal with the problems > you have had. May the rest of your life make up for the bad hand you were dealt. > > Venizia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 Which test - loading or regular 24 hour iodine test from a lab. Steph Iodine test >> >> >> > Can a regular 24 hour iodine urine test be read the same as a > loading >> > test if one has been on iodine supplementation for several > months? >> > Thanks >> > Kathy >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 Well, I guess for both. I am considering ordering a loading test and am wondering what result I will get with my current supplementation. My endocrinologist ordered a 24 hour urine test six months ago after my telling him I was on iodine supplementation. On my last visit a few weeks ago, he ordered another in light of my refusal to stop supplementation. Can this type of test determine iodine sufficiency? It appeared from the results of the last test that I was not excreting nearly as much as I was taking in (this was strictly my analysis of amounts excreted versus quantity taken). Thanks, Kathy > >> > >> Only the labs listed in the files section are doing the " loading > > test " . > >> Anything else is just basically a measurement of what iodine has > > been > >> ingested over the last 24 hours. > >> > >> Steph > >> > >> > >> Iodine test > >> > >> > >> > Can a regular 24 hour iodine urine test be read the same as a > > loading > >> > test if one has been on iodine supplementation for several > > months? > >> > Thanks > >> > Kathy > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 The urine tests from normal labs are just a measurement of how much is coming out. The loading test has you stop all iodine for 48 hours. This makes sure that all circulating iodine is gone. Then you take 50 mgs of Iodoral and then collect urine for 24 hours. They measure the output against what you put in and specifically calculate how much you kept. It is very different. One is just a " free for all " and the other is looking for specific results. The best information is gained when a second is done 3 to 6 mos after supplementing with 50 mgs. The iodine docs have determined that on 50 mgs you should be saturated in 3 mos provided all is working. So the second test tells you more about how your body is handling things. Does that makes sense? Iodine test >> >> >> >> >> >> > Can a regular 24 hour iodine urine test be read the same as a >> > loading >> >> > test if one has been on iodine supplementation for several >> > months? >> >> > Thanks >> >> > Kathy >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 Yes, but why did the numbers not match up when I compared what was excreted to what was taken in? I posted a little more information about what has been going on with me just several posts back with other questions listed there as well. Thanks so much for the help. Kathy > >> >> > >> >> Only the labs listed in the files section are doing > > the " loading > >> > test " . > >> >> Anything else is just basically a measurement of what iodine > > has > >> > been > >> >> ingested over the last 24 hours. > >> >> > >> >> Steph > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Iodine test > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Can a regular 24 hour iodine urine test be read the same as a > >> > loading > >> >> > test if one has been on iodine supplementation for several > >> > months? > >> >> > Thanks > >> >> > Kathy > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 I don't know. That test isn't an exact science for the way you are trying to interpret it. It's not designed to do that. I don't have your other post. Sorry. Iodine test >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Can a regular 24 hour iodine urine test be read the same > as a >> >> > loading >> >> >> > test if one has been on iodine supplementation for several >> >> > months? >> >> >> > Thanks >> >> >> > Kathy >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 It is under Subject: Iodine Supplementation Kathy > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Only the labs listed in the files section are doing > >> > the " loading > >> >> > test " . > >> >> >> Anything else is just basically a measurement of what iodine > >> > has > >> >> > been > >> >> >> ingested over the last 24 hours. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Steph > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Iodine test > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Can a regular 24 hour iodine urine test be read the same > > as a > >> >> > loading > >> >> >> > test if one has been on iodine supplementation for several > >> >> > months? > >> >> >> > Thanks > >> >> >> > Kathy > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 Yes but i don't read from the web. Iodine test >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Can a regular 24 hour iodine urine test be read the same >> > as a >> >> >> > loading >> >> >> >> > test if one has been on iodine supplementation for > several >> >> >> > months? >> >> >> >> > Thanks >> >> >> >> > Kathy >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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