Re: Back to iodine

August 8, 2006

Chuck, the iodine group is also full of scientific abstracts. The

moderator of the group is on 100mg Iodoral, which is iodine/iodide. She did a

urine test after 3 months on 50mg, and was determnined to be at 48% tissue

saturation, which is low. She consulted with Flechas who thought she was

iodine resistant. She is hypo and her sister died of breast cancer. Point

being there are many of us on 50mg Iodoral and doing great. I am going by how

I feel as usual, b/c I don't have $$ for the test. There is just a noticeable

difference between 50mg and 12.5 for me right now.

Somewhere on this computer I have info about the struggle Jefferies had to try

to get his research published in peer review journals. He never suceeded.

Gracia

Gracia,

You wrote:

>

> not 12mg. I have been on 50mg for 5 months. ...

Abraham determined the optimum daily allowance was 12.5 mg. When I first

read this I thought they must be talking about 12.5 mg of some iodine

compound, but they mean iodine itself. That is an incredible amount of

halogen, especially considering that anything above 2 mg is considered

risky. There has been a bunch of recent research supporting this:

Barakat M, et al. Hypothyroidism secondary to topical iodine treatment

in infants with spina bifida. Acta Paediatr. Jul 1994; 83(7):741-743.

Galofre JC, Fernandez-Calvet L, Rios M, -Mayor RV. Increased

incidence of thyrotoxicosis after iodine supplementation in an iodine

sufficient area. J Endocrinol Invest. 1994;17(1):23-27.

Henzen C, et al. Iodine-induced hyperthyroidism (iodine-induced

Basedow's disease): a currrent disease picture. Schweiz Med Wochenschr.

May 1, 1999; 129(17):658-664.

Institute of Medicine. Dietary Reference Intakes for Vitamin A, Vitamin

K, Arsenic, Boron, Chromium, Copper, Iodine, Iron, Manganese,

Molybdenum, Nickel, Silicon, Vanadium, and Zinc. Washington, DC:

National Academy Press; 2001.

Karsten Müssig MD, Claus Thamer MD, Roland Bares MD, Hans- Lipp

PhD, Hans-Ulrich Häring MD, Baptist Gallwitz MD, Iodine-Induced

Thyrotoxicosis After Ingestion of Kelp-Containing Tea, Journal of

General Internal Medicine, Vol. 21 Issue 6 Page C11 June 2006

Koutras DA. Control of efficiency and results, and adverse effects of

excess iodine administration on thyroid function. Ann Endocrinol

(Paris). 1996; 57(6):463-469.

Minelli R, et al. Effects of excess iodine administration on thyroid

function in euthyroid patients with a previous episode of thyroid

dysfunction induced by interferon-alpha treatment. Clin Endocrinol

(Oxf). Sep, 1997; 47(3):357-361.

Physicians' Desk Reference. 53rd ed. Montvale, NJ: Medical Economics

Company, Inc.; 1999.

Schlienger JL, et al. Iodine and thyroid function. Rev Med Interne.

1997; 18(9):709-716.

Iodine supplementation in the form of kelp seems to be particularly

problematic for euthyroid people, although it may help with early stage

hypoT:

Clifford D. , Bertram Bassett, Mark R. Burge, EFFECTS OF KELP

SUPPLEMENTATION ON THYROID FUNCTION IN EUTHYROID SUBJECTS, Endocrine

Practice, Volume 9, Number 5 / September / October 2003

Abstract:

Objective: To study the effects of ingestion of two different doses of

supplemental kelp on the thyroid function of healthy euthyroid subjects.

Methods: We conducted a double-blind prospective clinical trial

involving 36 healthy euthyroid subjects, who were randomly assigned to

receive placebo (4 alfalfa capsules per day), low-dose kelp (2 kelp

capsules and 2 alfalfa capsules per day), or high-dose kelp (4 kelp

capsules per day) for 4 weeks. Thyrotropin (thyroid-stimulating hormone

or TSH), free thyroxine, and total triiodothyronine were assessed at

weeks 0, 4, and 6. Response to thyrotropin-releasing hormone

stimulation, urinary iodine excretion, and basal metabolic rate were

determined at weeks 0 and 4.

Results: TSH concentrations did not differ significantly between week 0

and week 4 in the placebo group (P = 0.16) but increased significantly

in both the low-dose kelp (P = 0.04) and high-dose kelp (P = 0.002)

groups. Free thyroxine concentrations decreased slightly but

significantly after 4 weeks of placebo but were unchanged in the

low-dose and the high-dose kelp groups. In contrast, total

triiodothyronine levels did not differ significantly after 4 weeks of

placebo or low-dose kelp therapy but were significantly decreased after

high-dose kelp therapy (P = 0.04). Similarly, the thyrotropin-releasing

hormone stimulation test showed no significant change in poststimulation

TSH after 4 weeks in the placebo or low-dose kelp groups but revealed a

significantly increased response after high-dose kelp therapy (P =

0.0002). The 24-hour urinary iodine excretion showed dose-dependent

increases in the two kelp study groups. Basal metabolic rate did not

change significantly in any study group during the 4-week study period.

All thyroid laboratory values returned to baseline 2 weeks after

cessation of kelp supplementation, except for TSH in the high-dose kelp

group, which was significantly decreased.

Conclusion: Short-term dietary supplementation with kelp significantly

increases both basal and poststimulation TSH. These findings corroborate

previous studies on the effects of supplemental iodide given to

euthyroid subjects for a similar period. Further studies are needed to

determine whether long-term kelp supplementation would cause clinically

significant thyroid disease. (Endocr Pract. 2003;9:363-369)

The Material Safety Data Sheet for Lugol says to treat it as a

combination of iodine and potassium iodide, which is what it is.

The MSDS for KI lists the following toxicology summary:

Consumption of large amounts of iodides may harm the growing foetus.

Inhalation of dust may irritate respiratory tract. May act as a skin or

eye irritant. May cause sensitization or allergic reaction in

susceptible people.

Toxicity data

ORL-MUS LDLO 1862 mg kg-1 (minimal lethal dose orally in mice)

Risk phrases

R36 R38 R42 R43 R61. Irritating to eyes. Irritating to skin. May cause

sensitization by inhalation. May cause sensitization by skin contact.

May cause harm to the unborn child.

Here is the MSDS for pure iodine:

Toxic - may be fatal if swallowed or inhaled. Corrosive, causes burns.

Harmful by inhalation and through skin absorption. UK OES short-term 1

mg/m3 (0.1 ppm). Readily absorbed through skin. Very destructive of

mucous membranes and upper respiratory tract, eyes and skin. Severe

irritant. Sublimes at room temperature to yield dangerous levels of

vapour. May cause sensitization. May cause damage to the unborn child.

Toxicity data

ORL-HMN LDLO 28 mg kg-1 (Lowest published lethal dose in humans)

UNR-MAN LDLO 29 mg kg-1 (Unreported)

Risk phrases

R21 R23 R25 R34. Harmful in contact with skin. Toxic by inhalation.

Toxic if swallowed. Causes burns.

Chuck

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August 8, 2006

Gracia,

Abraham was the authority _you_ quoted to me. He said 12.5 mg was an

average daily requirement, so I'm sure he would accept your 50 mg or

even the 100 mg per day.

You wrote:

>

> Chuck, the iodine group is also full of scientific abstracts. ...

I'm sure it is, but from which journals? I also don't understand how a

urine test could indicate tissue saturation of iodine.

Chuck

August 10, 2006

did you mean to say would or wouldn't?

Most peeps take 50mg Iodral/day for 3 months until tissues are

saturated---some take it for up to 6 months, and that appears to be me. Just

going by symptoms.

The best tests for me have been 24 hr urine, like from

http://www.antibodyassay.com Really the most accurate. These tests are

supposed to tell what is happening in the cells. I don't understand the

science behind it

Gracia

Gracia,

Abraham was the authority _you_ quoted to me. He said 12.5 mg was an

average daily requirement, so I'm sure he would accept your 50 mg or

even the 100 mg per day.

You wrote:

>

> Chuck, the iodine group is also full of scientific abstracts. ...

I'm sure it is, but from which journals? I also don't understand how a

urine test could indicate tissue saturation of iodine.

Chuck

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August 10, 2006

Gracia,

You wrote:

>

> did you mean to say would or wouldn't?

Dr. Abraham probably _would_ accept the protocol you outlined. He is the

one that calculated the average daily intake of the Japanese to be

around 12 to 13 mg. Since that is way above the accepted threshold for

damage of 2 mg, he would not balk at going well above the daily average

for a temporary period.

However, as Dr. Gaby explained, Abraham's figure for Japanese diets was

erroneously based on combining wet kelp consumption figures with

dehydrated kelp iodine content.

I couldn't find any test for iodine at the site you gave us

(http://www.antibodyassay.com/), but the problem with the loading test

is that iodine doesn't just go into cells or into urine. Iodide,

especially, will disappear with perspiration. Iodine is volatile and can

simply diffuse back into the atmosphere, and both forms will end up in

feces. Thus, the amount that is excreted in urine could be almost

anything, depending on what else you ate and how active you were.

This is just an attempt to create credibility for the claim of storage,

for which there is no evidence, by inventing a way to " measure " it. You

might as well measure table salt loading by detecting salt in urine. If

all the salt that goes into your mouth doesn't show up later, you must

have a deficiency; your tissue must be storing it.

Chuck

August 10, 2006

The trouble with treating symptoms is that symptomatic relief does not

always equate an improvement in health. For example, I rather suspect

you would feel quite improved with a sufficient dose of cocaine, or even

morphine sulfate. Hey, a six pack might even help! [ggg]

4e.

Re: Back to iodine

<hypothyroidism/message/25633;_ylc=X3oDMTJxbTY2a3M\

0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE2MDQyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMjU2MzMEc2V\

jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE1NTIzMjQ5Ng-->

Posted by: " Gracia " circe@...

<mailto:circe@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Back%20to%20iodine>

graciabee <graciabee>

Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:59 am (PST)

if you want to save $$$ then just treat your symptoms. That is what

I did and it worked fine. you need adrenal support IMO. Test from

AAL cost me $350, do you have insurance? But a doc would hav eto

order the tests and only BB docs know about it.

gracia

August 10, 2006

, But the whole idea of all of this is to get rid of are symptoms!. Hey if

drinking horse pee would get rid of my symptoms I would do! Steph

<res075oh@...> wrote: The trouble with treating symptoms

is that symptomatic relief does not

always equate an improvement in health. For example, I rather suspect

you would feel quite improved with a sufficient dose of cocaine, or even

morphine sulfate. Hey, a six pack might even help! [ggg]

4e.

Re: Back to iodine

<hypothyroidism/message/25633;_ylc=X3oDMTJxbTY2a3M\

0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE2MDQyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMjU2MzMEc2V\

jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE1NTIzMjQ5Ng-->

Posted by: " Gracia " circe@...

<mailto:circe@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Back%20to%20iodine>

graciabee <graciabee>

Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:59 am (PST)

if you want to save $$$ then just treat your symptoms. That is what

I did and it worked fine. you need adrenal support IMO. Test from

AAL cost me $350, do you have insurance? But a doc would hav eto

order the tests and only BB docs know about it.

gracia

August 11, 2006

treating symptoms actually gives better results than treating tests.

gracia

The trouble with treating symptoms is that symptomatic relief does not

always equate an improvement in health. For example, I rather suspect

you would feel quite improved with a sufficient dose of cocaine, or even

morphine sulfate. Hey, a six pack might even help! [ggg]

4e.

Re: Back to iodine

<hypothyroidism/message/25633;_ylc=X3oDMTJxbTY2a3M\

0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE2MDQyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMjU2MzMEc2V\

jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE1NTIzMjQ5Ng-->

Posted by: " Gracia " circe@...

<mailto:circe@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Back%20to%20iodine>

graciabee <graciabee>

Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:59 am (PST)

if you want to save $$$ then just treat your symptoms. That is what

I did and it worked fine. you need adrenal support IMO. Test from

AAL cost me $350, do you have insurance? But a doc would hav eto

order the tests and only BB docs know about it.

gracia

August 12, 2006

Cocaine was hailed as a miracle drug many years ago because it got rid

of all kind of negative symptoms. But it would be foolish of me to

recommend it [i emphatically DO NOT!]; and it would be even more foolish

of you to accept my recommendation. You can get almost any kind of

advice on the internet that you want and some of it may even be

helpful. But you can also get advice that could kill you.

Please note the recent posts from Chuck wherein he points out that the

high dosage of iodine [or iodide?] recommended by a doctor was based

upon an erroneous belief that Japanese citizens consume a very high

level of iodine/iodide. This erroneous belief came about because the

actual consumption of kelp was the natural version which contains 90% or

so of water; while it was believed that the consumption was of the

dehydrated substance. Therefore, the Japanese were consuming only on

the order of 1/10 the iodine originally presumed. This totally destroys

the former argument, and any recommendations based upon it.

2c.

Re: Back to iodine

<hypothyroidism/message/25648;_ylc=X3oDMTJxbnR2NTF\

2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE2MDQyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMjU2NDgEc2V\

jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE1NTI3MjA0Mg-->

Posted by: " stephanie robertson " stephsnotes2003@...

<mailto:stephsnotes2003@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Back%20to%20iodine>

stephsnotes2003 <stephsnotes2003>

Thu Aug 10, 2006 2:35 pm (PST)

, But the whole idea of all of this is to get rid of are

symptoms!. Hey if drinking horse pee would get rid of my symptoms I

would do! Steph

<res075oh@... <mailto:res075oh%40verizon.net>> wrote:

The trouble with treating symptoms is that symptomatic relief does not

always equate an improvement in health. For example, I rather suspect

you would feel quite improved with a sufficient dose of cocaine, or

even

morphine sulfate. Hey, a six pack might even help! [ggg]

August 12, 2006

It all depends upon what you're treating them with...

d.

Re: Back to iodine

<hypothyroidism/message/25659;_ylc=X3oDMTJxbW9na3M\

yBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE2MDQyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMjU2NTkEc2V\

jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE1NTI3MjA0Mg-->

Posted by: " Gracia " circe@...

<mailto:circe@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Back%20to%20iodine>

graciabee <graciabee>

Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:54 pm (PST)

treating symptoms actually gives better results than treating tests.

gracia

The trouble with treating symptoms is that symptomatic relief does not

always equate an improvement in health. For example, I rather suspect

you would feel quite improved with a sufficient dose of cocaine, or even

morphine sulfate. Hey, a six pack might even help! [ggg]

August 12, 2006

There is a big difference between taking drugs - legal or otherwise to

numb symptoms and treating symptoms with the substance that is deficient

in the first place and therefore causing symptoms.

There is absolutely no comparison between thyroid hormone and cocaine -

one is a substance actually found in the body (regardless of any

dopamine response) the other is a chemical refined from plants and alien

to the body.

Honestly - that is so obvious - do you sometimes just like to be a

" stirrer " as we say here in OZ

K