Guest guest Posted May 28, 2008 Report Share Posted May 28, 2008 Chuck, So if someone has adrenal fatigue, I believe the course of action is cortisol, right? Is there other more natural ways of ridding oneself of adrenal fatigue? What is considered a modest dose? And why would anyone want to take it with all those side-effects unless there is no other choice and it is life saving. The last thing I need is fluid retention and weight gain...I don't need the mood swings either, nor the bone loss....this gets more and more frustrating Venizia > > Gracia, > > What do you consider a " low dose " again? This twelve year old study > showed that 5 mg per day causes significant bone loss: > > http://www.springerlink.com/content/f574213413428191/ > > even though that is supposed to be a physiological dose. > > For Venizia's question, some side effects are almost universal among > patients taking long term corticosteroids, even at modest doses. These > include fluid retention, blurry vision (caused by pressure changes in > the anterior chamber), mild euphoria or other mood changes, insomnia, > weight gain and redistribution of body fat, and immunocompromise. > > Longer term, you can have metabolic effects (eg, hyperglycemia, > hypertension, osteoporosis), thinning of the skin, muscle weakness > (myopathy), acne, dyspepsia, Cushingoid habitus, adrenal suppression, > hypertriglyceridemia, and dyslipidemia. Also included is the poorly > understood proatherogenic effect of corticosteroids, which is not fully > explained by changes in levels of low-density or high-density > lipoprotein cholesterol or triglycerides. > > Some unpredictable side effects (allergic reactions?) can occur for any > dose or for any period of time, although clearly the risk increases with > longer duration and higher dose. These effects include cataract > formation, avascular necrosis, psychosis, and adrenal failure on > withdrawal of therapy. > > Chuck > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2008 Report Share Posted May 28, 2008 venizia1948 wrote: > > So if someone has adrenal fatigue, I believe the course of action is > cortisol, right? Is there other more natural ways of ridding oneself > of adrenal fatigue?... Perhaps the other usual recommendations are more important: remove stress, avoid caffeine, msg, sugar, and salt, drink lots of water, eat breakfast, exercise, sleep, take stress vitamins (C and E, maybe A and Bs). I would try all of those before DHEA and cortef. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2008 Report Share Posted May 28, 2008 I totally agree with you, Chuck. So, because I had a hashi attack would that cause adrenal fatigue. I take armour and they say to make sure you do not have adrenal problems before taking it but my doctor never checked when I started it. I will be getting a cortisol test in a couple of weeks and want to know all I can before he throws cortisol my way. Venizia -- In hypothyroidism , Chuck B <gumboyaya@...> wrote: > > venizia1948 wrote: > > > > So if someone has adrenal fatigue, I believe the course of action is > > cortisol, right? Is there other more natural ways of ridding oneself > > of adrenal fatigue?... > > Perhaps the other usual recommendations are more important: remove > stress, avoid caffeine, msg, sugar, and salt, drink lots of water, eat > breakfast, exercise, sleep, take stress vitamins (C and E, maybe A and Bs). > > I would try all of those before DHEA and cortef. > > Chuck > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2008 Report Share Posted May 28, 2008 Venizia, You wrote: > ... So, because I had a hashi attack > would that cause adrenal fatigue. I take armour and they say to make > sure you do not have adrenal problems before taking it but my doctor > never checked when I started it.... Your doctors probably looked for OVERT indications of adrenal failure. What Gracia is talking about is so subtle, the tests won't detect it, and there are no overt signs. A skeptic would question whether there is really anything going on. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2008 Report Share Posted May 28, 2008 Chuck, I mentioned to him that I had a high cortisol test 2 yrs prior. It was about 15 points above normal range. All he said was I didn't have adrenal problems. I do not understand how he would know that other than the overt symptoms you talk about. I have read that cortisol numbers can go high and then will go low before one has adrenal fatigue. Venizia > > ... So, because I had a hashi attack > > would that cause adrenal fatigue. I take armour and they say to make > > sure you do not have adrenal problems before taking it but my doctor > > never checked when I started it.... > > Your doctors probably looked for OVERT indications of adrenal failure. > What Gracia is talking about is so subtle, the tests won't detect it, > and there are no overt signs. A skeptic would question whether there is > really anything going on. > > Chuck > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2008 Report Share Posted May 28, 2008 Venizia- there are other ways of healing your adrenals. herbal therapy and acupuncture also works very effectively. it just depends on how you want to approach it. I take a Chinese/east Indian blend of herbs and I also do acupuncture. From: venizia1948 Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 3:25 PM hypothyroidism Subject: Re: Cortisol/chuck Chuck, So if someone has adrenal fatigue, I believe the course of action is cortisol, right? Is there other more natural ways of ridding oneself of adrenal fatigue? What is considered a modest dose? And why would anyone want to take it with all those side-effects unless there is no other choice and it is life saving. The last thing I need is fluid retention and weight gain...I don't need the mood swings either, nor the bone loss....this gets more and more frustrating Venizia > > Gracia, > > What do you consider a " low dose " again? This twelve year old study > showed that 5 mg per day causes significant bone loss: > > http://www.springerlink.com/content/f574213413428191/ > > even though that is supposed to be a physiological dose. > > For Venizia's question, some side effects are almost universal among > patients taking long term corticosteroids, even at modest doses. These > include fluid retention, blurry vision (caused by pressure changes in > the anterior chamber), mild euphoria or other mood changes, insomnia, > weight gain and redistribution of body fat, and immunocompromise. > > Longer term, you can have metabolic effects (eg, hyperglycemia, > hypertension, osteoporosis), thinning of the skin, muscle weakness > (myopathy), acne, dyspepsia, Cushingoid habitus, adrenal suppression, > hypertriglyceridemia, and dyslipidemia. Also included is the poorly > understood proatherogenic effect of corticosteroids, which is not fully > explained by changes in levels of low-density or high-density > lipoprotein cholesterol or triglycerides. > > Some unpredictable side effects (allergic reactions?) can occur for any > dose or for any period of time, although clearly the risk increases with > longer duration and higher dose. These effects include cataract > formation, avascular necrosis, psychosis, and adrenal failure on > withdrawal of therapy. > > Chuck > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2008 Report Share Posted May 28, 2008 I did acupuncture for sinus problems when I used to have money My insurance will not cover acupuncture. Do you get your herbs from the acupuncturist? The one I went to had a whole wall of herbs. This guy really knew what he was doing. Too bad I can't afford it. Venizia > > > > Gracia, > > > > What do you consider a " low dose " again? This twelve year old study > > showed that 5 mg per day causes significant bone loss: > > > > http://www.springerlink.com/content/f574213413428191/ > > > > even though that is supposed to be a physiological dose. > > > > For Venizia's question, some side effects are almost universal among > > patients taking long term corticosteroids, even at modest doses. These > > include fluid retention, blurry vision (caused by pressure changes in > > the anterior chamber), mild euphoria or other mood changes, insomnia, > > weight gain and redistribution of body fat, and immunocompromise. > > > > Longer term, you can have metabolic effects (eg, hyperglycemia, > > hypertension, osteoporosis), thinning of the skin, muscle weakness > > (myopathy), acne, dyspepsia, Cushingoid habitus, adrenal suppression, > > hypertriglyceridemia, and dyslipidemia. Also included is the poorly > > understood proatherogenic effect of corticosteroids, which is not fully > > explained by changes in levels of low-density or high-density > > lipoprotein cholesterol or triglycerides. > > > > Some unpredictable side effects (allergic reactions?) can occur for any > > dose or for any period of time, although clearly the risk increases > with > > longer duration and higher dose. These effects include cataract > > formation, avascular necrosis, psychosis, and adrenal failure on > > withdrawal of therapy. > > > > Chuck > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2008 Report Share Posted May 29, 2008 Venezia you really should be relying on ppl who have experience with this. otherwise you are going to get a lot of confusing info, and allopathic medicine is VERY confused on this subject. http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com has good info. low dose cortef and DHEA work so well---big pharma does not want us to know this. Gracia I totally agree with you, Chuck. So, because I had a hashi attack would that cause adrenal fatigue. I take armour and they say to make sure you do not have adrenal problems before taking it but my doctor never checked when I started it. I will be getting a cortisol test in a couple of weeks and want to know all I can before he throws cortisol my way. Venizia -- In hypothyroidism , Chuck B <gumboyaya@...> wrote: > > venizia1948 wrote: > > > > So if someone has adrenal fatigue, I believe the course of action is > > cortisol, right? Is there other more natural ways of ridding oneself > > of adrenal fatigue?... > > Perhaps the other usual recommendations are more important: remove > stress, avoid caffeine, msg, sugar, and salt, drink lots of water, eat > breakfast, exercise, sleep, take stress vitamins (C and E, maybe A and Bs). > > I would try all of those before DHEA and cortef. > > Chuck > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.3/1472 - Release Date: 5/29/2008 7:27 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2008 Report Share Posted May 29, 2008 the doctor is looking for 's----they are not taught anything about Safe Uses of Cortisol and adrenal insufficiiency. we are talking about HUGE amounts of $$$$ here. treating these symptoms with big pharma drugs vs using cheap low dose cortisol. I work with a man who has congenital hypothyroidism UNTREATED and no adrenal function whatsoever (symptoms). He is being murdered. Gracia Venizia, You wrote: > ... So, because I had a hashi attack > would that cause adrenal fatigue. I take armour and they say to make > sure you do not have adrenal problems before taking it but my doctor > never checked when I started it.... Your doctors probably looked for OVERT indications of adrenal failure. What Gracia is talking about is so subtle, the tests won't detect it, and there are no overt signs. A skeptic would question whether there is really anything going on. Chuck ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.3/1472 - Release Date: 5/29/2008 7:27 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2008 Report Share Posted May 29, 2008 yikes you are mixing up allopathic and holistic medicine and coming up with soup salad. THERE ARE NO SIDE EFFECTS WITH LOW DOSE CORTISOL. you are using cortef like you use thyroid hormone, to replace what's missing. Gracia Chuck, So if someone has adrenal fatigue, I believe the course of action is cortisol, right? Is there other more natural ways of ridding oneself of adrenal fatigue? What is considered a modest dose? And why would anyone want to take it with all those side-effects unless there is no other choice and it is life saving. The last thing I need is fluid retention and weight gain...I don't need the mood swings either, nor the bone loss....this gets more and more frustrating Venizia --- Recent Activity a.. 14New Members Visit Your Group Meditation and Lovingkindness A Group to share and learn. Health Achy Joint? Common arthritis myths debunked. Share Photos Put your favorite photos and more online. . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.3/1472 - Release Date: 5/29/2008 7:27 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2008 Report Share Posted May 29, 2008 How do you know docs are not taught these things Gracia? These are such broad statements, they are difficult to believe. As I have posted before, there is just no one you have ever written about (family, friends, people in the group home) who you have'nt diagnosed - visually - (and without your having a medical degree) as being hypothyroid. Your statements are so overboard, it is hard to lend credence to your posts. Dusty _____ From: hypothyroidism [mailto:hypothyroidism ] On Behalf Of Gracia Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 10:13 AM hypothyroidism Subject: Re: Re: Cortisol/chuck the doctor is looking for 's----they are not taught anything about Safe Uses of Cortisol and adrenal insufficiiency. we are talking about HUGE amounts of $$$$ here. treating these symptoms with big pharma drugs vs using cheap low dose cortisol. I work with a man who has congenital hypothyroidism UNTREATED and no adrenal function whatsoever (symptoms). He is being murdered. Gracia Venizia, You wrote: > ... So, because I had a hashi attack > would that cause adrenal fatigue. I take armour and they say to make > sure you do not have adrenal problems before taking it but my doctor > never checked when I started it.... Your doctors probably looked for OVERT indications of adrenal failure. What Gracia is talking about is so subtle, the tests won't detect it, and there are no overt signs. A skeptic would question whether there is really anything going on. Chuck ---------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.3/1472 - Release Date: 5/29/2008 7:27 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2008 Report Share Posted May 29, 2008 Gracia, You wrote: > ... THERE ARE NO SIDE EFFECTS WITH LOW DOSE CORTISOL.... Yesterday, I cited recently published, peer reviewed studies, that specifically measured universal side effects of low dose cortisol, particularly bone loss, and discussed how many people, like Nancie, have severe reactions to it, even with very low doses, under 5 mg per day. Instead of shouting your usual baseless assertions in caps, why don't you give us a credible source for them. That would mean something other than an opinion piece in a magazine. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2008 Report Share Posted May 29, 2008 This is what scares me about taking cortisone because I am very sensitive to ALL medications. I don't want to create all kinds of other problems for myself. On the NTH site, I told them your thought and studies you sited Chuck, and they came back with " the key word here is moderate " meaning they felt moderate doses weren't low doses. WoW, so confusing to know what is right for me. All I know is right now I feel like crap. Venizia -- In hypothyroidism , Chuck B <gumboyaya@...> wrote: > > Gracia, > > You wrote: > > ... THERE ARE NO SIDE EFFECTS WITH LOW DOSE CORTISOL.... > > Yesterday, I cited recently published, peer reviewed studies, that > specifically measured universal side effects of low dose cortisol, > particularly bone loss, and discussed how many people, like Nancie, have > severe reactions to it, even with very low doses, under 5 mg per day. > > Instead of shouting your usual baseless assertions in caps, why don't > you give us a credible source for them. That would mean something other > than an opinion piece in a magazine. > > Chuck > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2008 Report Share Posted May 29, 2008 I just tried to reply to you and " peer reviewed studies " and then lost the whole thing. (( I am afraid my computer wants me to trade up. the article you cited states: " The most common dose was equivalent to 5 mg/day of prednisone; " it is recommended to take hydrocortisone (cortef). NOT PREDNISONE I take 5mg 4X a day, have never ever experienced " side effects " , but if teeth are any inidcation of bone density, my teeth are now twice the size they used to be. they used to look like children's teeth. http://www.drlam.com Safe Uses of Cortisol by Jeffferies MD. http://wwww.brodabarnes.org I also use Armour and other hormones however. sorry you think my " usual baseless asertions in caps " just aren't enough, but I have to go to work soon. gracia Gracia, You wrote: > ... THERE ARE NO SIDE EFFECTS WITH LOW DOSE CORTISOL.... Yesterday, I cited recently published, peer reviewed studies, that specifically measured universal side effects of low dose cortisol, particularly bone loss, and discussed how many people, like Nancie, have severe reactions to it, even with very low doses, under 5 mg per day. Instead of shouting your usual baseless assertions in caps, why don't you give us a credible source for them. That would mean something other than an opinion piece in a magazine. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2008 Report Share Posted May 29, 2008 gracia- actually they are taught about adrenal insufficiency and adrenal disease in school-they just aren't taught the natural medicne manner or the " gracia method " of treating. From: Gracia Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 7:12 AM hypothyroidism Subject: Re: Re: Cortisol/chuck the doctor is looking for 's----they are not taught anything about Safe Uses of Cortisol and adrenal insufficiiency. we are talking about HUGE amounts of $$$$ here. treating these symptoms with big pharma drugs vs using cheap low dose cortisol. I work with a man who has congenital hypothyroidism UNTREATED and no adrenal function whatsoever (symptoms). He is being murdered. Gracia Venizia, You wrote: > ... So, because I had a hashi attack > would that cause adrenal fatigue. I take armour and they say to make > sure you do not have adrenal problems before taking it but my doctor > never checked when I started it.... Your doctors probably looked for OVERT indications of adrenal failure. What Gracia is talking about is so subtle, the tests won't detect it, and there are no overt signs. A skeptic would question whether there is really anything going on. Chuck ---------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.3/1472 - Release Date: 5/29/2008 7:27 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2008 Report Share Posted May 29, 2008 you insurance might cover it if you can get your providers to write a TAR [ treatment authorization request] with citations showing that acupuncture does work for your condition. granted it will be a lot of work to write the tar but if you can find a provider to write it- the insurance company may find it hard to refuse if the citations are from peer reviewed journals from both allopathic and natural medicine sites. I have found that after being bombarded with all the evidence- they usually consent. From: venizia1948 Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 8:02 PM hypothyroidism Subject: Re: Cortisol/chuck I did acupuncture for sinus problems when I used to have money My insurance will not cover acupuncture. Do you get your herbs from the acupuncturist? The one I went to had a whole wall of herbs. This guy really knew what he was doing. Too bad I can't afford it. Venizia > > > > Gracia, > > > > What do you consider a " low dose " again? This twelve year old study > > showed that 5 mg per day causes significant bone loss: > > > > http://www.springerlink.com/content/f574213413428191/ > > > > even though that is supposed to be a physiological dose. > > > > For Venizia's question, some side effects are almost universal among > > patients taking long term corticosteroids, even at modest doses. These > > include fluid retention, blurry vision (caused by pressure changes in > > the anterior chamber), mild euphoria or other mood changes, insomnia, > > weight gain and redistribution of body fat, and immunocompromise. > > > > Longer term, you can have metabolic effects (eg, hyperglycemia, > > hypertension, osteoporosis), thinning of the skin, muscle weakness > > (myopathy), acne, dyspepsia, Cushingoid habitus, adrenal suppression, > > hypertriglyceridemia, and dyslipidemia. Also included is the poorly > > understood proatherogenic effect of corticosteroids, which is not fully > > explained by changes in levels of low-density or high-density > > lipoprotein cholesterol or triglycerides. > > > > Some unpredictable side effects (allergic reactions?) can occur for any > > dose or for any period of time, although clearly the risk increases > with > > longer duration and higher dose. These effects include cataract > > formation, avascular necrosis, psychosis, and adrenal failure on > > withdrawal of therapy. > > > > Chuck > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2008 Report Share Posted May 29, 2008 That's good to know. I will file this until I find out what my health situation really is. Thanks. Venizia > > > > > > Gracia, > > > > > > What do you consider a " low dose " again? This twelve year old study > > > showed that 5 mg per day causes significant bone loss: > > > > > > http://www.springerlink.com/content/f574213413428191/ > > > > > > even though that is supposed to be a physiological dose. > > > > > > For Venizia's question, some side effects are almost universal among > > > patients taking long term corticosteroids, even at modest doses. > These > > > include fluid retention, blurry vision (caused by pressure changes in > > > the anterior chamber), mild euphoria or other mood changes, insomnia, > > > weight gain and redistribution of body fat, and immunocompromise. > > > > > > Longer term, you can have metabolic effects (eg, hyperglycemia, > > > hypertension, osteoporosis), thinning of the skin, muscle weakness > > > (myopathy), acne, dyspepsia, Cushingoid habitus, adrenal suppression, > > > hypertriglyceridemia, and dyslipidemia. Also included is the poorly > > > understood proatherogenic effect of corticosteroids, which is not > fully > > > explained by changes in levels of low-density or high-density > > > lipoprotein cholesterol or triglycerides. > > > > > > Some unpredictable side effects (allergic reactions?) can occur > for any > > > dose or for any period of time, although clearly the risk increases > > with > > > longer duration and higher dose. These effects include cataract > > > formation, avascular necrosis, psychosis, and adrenal failure on > > > withdrawal of therapy. > > > > > > Chuck > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2008 Report Share Posted May 29, 2008 Venizia, You wrote: > ... " the key word > here is moderate " meaning they felt moderate doses weren't low doses. The usual cutoffs that I could find are that moderate is between 7.5 and 40 mg per day. Above 40 is a " high " dose. At 7.5 mg or below is considered a " low " dose. I specifically asked Gracia whether 5 mg was " low " to her, because that was the dose of the study that showed significant bone loss. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2008 Report Share Posted May 29, 2008 Gracia, You wrote: > > I just tried to reply to you and " peer reviewed studies " and then lost > the whole thing. (( I am afraid my computer wants me to trade up. > the article you cited states: > > " The most common dose was equivalent to 5 mg/day of prednisone; " Yes, but it WAS cortisol. Prednisone is 5 times as potent, so this means they were actually detecting side effects (bone loss) from 1 mg of cortisol per day. You are taking 20 times that. Chuck > > it is recommended to take hydrocortisone (cortef). NOT PREDNISONE I take > 5mg 4X a day, have never ever experienced " side effects " , but if teeth > are any inidcation of bone density, my teeth are now twice the size they > used to be. they used to look like children's teeth. > http://www.drlam.com <http://www.drlam.com> > Safe Uses of Cortisol by Jeffferies MD. > http://wwww.brodabarnes.org <http://wwww.brodabarnes.org> I also use > Armour and other hormones however. > sorry you think my " usual baseless asertions in caps " just aren't > enough, but I have to go to work soon. > gracia > > Gracia, > > You wrote: > > ... THERE ARE NO SIDE EFFECTS WITH LOW DOSE CORTISOL.... > > Yesterday, I cited recently published, peer reviewed studies, that > specifically measured universal side effects of low dose cortisol, > particularly bone loss, and discussed how many people, like Nancie, have > severe reactions to it, even with very low doses, under 5 mg per day. > > Instead of shouting your usual baseless assertions in caps, why don't > you give us a credible source for them. That would mean something other > than an opinion piece in a magazine. > > Chuck > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2008 Report Share Posted May 29, 2008 I don't know the answer to your question, but I suspect that a LOT of cases of " adrenal fatigue " have been diagnosed by other than credible methods. Just as many cases of supposed iodine insufficiency are diagnosed by the bogus skin absorption test. So be darned sure you actually have adrenal fatigue before you start a treatment that may be worse than the condition. > > Re: Cortisol/chuck > <hypothyroidism/message/38727;_ylc=X3oDMTJxNmFicTY\ 4BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMzg3MjcEc2V\ jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTIxMjA2MDUwOQ--> > > > > Posted by: " venizia1948 " nelsonck@... > <mailto:nelsonck@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Cortisol%2Fchuck> > venizia1948 <venizia1948> > > > Wed May 28, 2008 3:25 pm (PDT) > > Chuck, > > So if someone has adrenal fatigue, I believe the course of action is > cortisol, right? Is there other more natural ways of ridding oneself > of adrenal fatigue? What is considered a modest dose? And why would > anyone want to take it with all those side-effects unless there is no > other choice and it is life saving. The last thing I need is fluid > retention and weight gain...I don't need the mood swings either, nor > the bone loss....this gets more and more frustrating > > Venizia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2008 Report Share Posted May 29, 2008 Kind of like looking for the tooth fairy, eh? [ggg] > > Re: Cortisol/chuck > <hypothyroidism/message/38731;_ylc=X3oDMTJxMTQ2cGt\ sBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMzg3MzEEc2V\ jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTIxMjA2MDUwOQ--> > > > > Posted by: " Chuck B " gumboyaya@... > <mailto:gumboyaya@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Cortisol%2Fchuck> > gumbo482001 <gumbo482001> > > > Wed May 28, 2008 7:24 pm (PDT) > > Venizia, > > You wrote: > > ... So, because I had a hashi attack > > would that cause adrenal fatigue. I take armour and they say to make > > sure you do not have adrenal problems before taking it but my doctor > > never checked when I started it.... > > Your doctors probably looked for OVERT indications of adrenal failure. > What Gracia is talking about is so subtle, the tests won't detect it, > and there are no overt signs. A skeptic would question whether there is > really anything going on. > > Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2008 Report Share Posted May 29, 2008 Chuck, This is a response from NTH when I asked if those taking cortisol have had bone density tests or do any of them have bone problems. I would appreciate your thoughts. By the way, can I get in trouble for forwarding this from NTH? I not sure of all the protocol. Venizia, the use of cortisol by hypo patients with low cortisol is based on physiologic amounts, not pharmacological amounts. It's the high, high, more-than-you- need amounts which cause problems. Instead, hypo patient with low cortisol simply find the physiologic amount that finally helps move thyroid hormones to the blood, and in turn, gives you back what your adrenals are not. Janie > - In hypothyroidism , Chuck B <gumboyaya@...> wrote: > > Venizia, > > You wrote: > > ... " the key word > > here is moderate " meaning they felt moderate doses weren't low doses. > > The usual cutoffs that I could find are that moderate is between 7.5 and > 40 mg per day. Above 40 is a " high " dose. At 7.5 mg or below is > considered a " low " dose. I specifically asked Gracia whether 5 mg was > " low " to her, because that was the dose of the study that showed > significant bone loss. > > Chuck > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 what? prednisone is not recommended. some ppl take prednisolone which is time release but Jefferies recommends hydrocortisone. 20mg hydrocortone=5mg prednisolone. this is absolutely perfectly safe. Even up to 40mg hydrocortone is safe. I think your math is off. Cortisol at 5mg is 5mg--I am taking 20mg total per day. not 20X what pred equals. Gracia Gracia, You wrote: > > I just tried to reply to you and " peer reviewed studies " and then lost > the whole thing. (( I am afraid my computer wants me to trade up. > the article you cited states: > > " The most common dose was equivalent to 5 mg/day of prednisone; " Yes, but it WAS cortisol. Prednisone is 5 times as potent, so this means they were actually detecting side effects (bone loss) from 1 mg of cortisol per day. You are taking 20 times that. Chuck > > it is recommended to take hydrocortisone (cortef). NOT PREDNISONE I take > 5mg 4X a day, have never ever experienced " side effects " , but if teeth > are any inidcation of bone density, my teeth are now twice the size they > used to be. they used to look like children's teeth. > http://www.drlam.com <http://www.drlam.com> > Safe Uses of Cortisol by Jeffferies MD. > http://wwww.brodabarnes.org <http://wwww.brodabarnes.org> I also use > Armour and other hormones however. > sorry you think my " usual baseless asertions in caps " just aren't > enough, but I have to go to work soon. > gracia > > Gracia, > > You wrote: > > ... THERE ARE NO SIDE EFFECTS WITH LOW DOSE CORTISOL.... > > Yesterday, I cited recently published, peer reviewed studies, that > specifically measured universal side effects of low dose cortisol, > particularly bone loss, and discussed how many people, like Nancie, have > severe reactions to it, even with very low doses, under 5 mg per day. > > Instead of shouting your usual baseless assertions in caps, why don't > you give us a credible source for them. That would mean something other > than an opinion piece in a magazine. > > Chuck > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 venizia1948 wrote: > ... By the way, can I get in trouble for > forwarding this from NTH? I not sure of all the protocol. Usually, it is only a matter of netiquette to not lift excerpts or forward entire posts (or identities) to other lists. For some lists I am on, it is a strict rule, and they will kick you off for doing it. Cross posting can be even worse, for then the list manager gets bothered with bounced messages. I don't know what the rules are at NTH, but I would be surprised if Ira Fine would care. If he had a rule, he probably would have said something by now. I have seen relatively little cross posting here, anyway. As for the details, I have given you peer reviewed studies that show that less than physiologic doses, specifically 5 mg per day, DO cause measurable side effects if taken long term. A month or less is still probably not a problem. I would ask them for the same level of credibility. Ask them to cite literature that confirms their assertions. All you have quoted from them seems to be opinion. As far as I am concerned, everyone here is perfectly entitled to trust the opinion of a non-professional over peer reviewed research, but I think that could be risky. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 Gracia, You wrote: > > what? prednisone is not recommended.... It was just a way of expressing equivalence for people familiar with prednisone. What was tested was cortisol. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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