Re:Brand new to hypo and to this group. Need some advice.........

[Guest guest]

If I correctly understood the numbers Chuck recently posted then about

98% to 99% of hypothyroidism patients are treated with nothing but

Synthroid or its equivalents. But you would never guess that from this

group. Your dose of Synthroid is still very low and it's still too

early to say whether you may fit into the 98% + group or not. IMHO your

doctor will probably increase your Synthroid from your next tests.

Unless you have a heart problem you might consider asking her/him if

she/he would do the tests at 4 weeks rather than 6.

One thing that is a concern is that with your TSH so high you have

probably been hypo for some time and there is at least some anecdotal

evidence that suggests that those who are not treated for a long time

may have more difficulty in getting relief from symptoms with

conventional treatment. At the same time I would hasten to add that I

know of no peer reviewed literature to support such speculation.

Armour isn't really " natural " but it does come from an animal if that

suits you better. And it has T3 as well as T4; although I doubt that

more than a very small percentage of people have a problem making enough

T3 from T4. Again, something you'd never guess from this list.

If you aren't producing sufficient thyroid hormone to keep you alive

you will have to replace it or you will die. There are no supplements

or vitamins that will suffice.

Luck,

>

> Brand new to hypo and to this group. Need some advice.........

>

<hypothyroidism/message/39379;_ylc=X3oDMTJxYjNuODV\

hBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMzkzNzkEc2V\

jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTIxNDA0NDg3NQ-->

>

>

>

> Posted by: " lofquistbarbara " blofquist@...

>

<mailto:blofquist@...?Subject=%20Re%3ABrand%20new%20to%20hypo%20and%\

20to%20this%20group%2E%20%20Need%20some%20advice%2E%2E%2E%2E%2E%2E%2E%2E%2E>

> lofquistbarbara <lofquistbarbara>

>

>

> Fri Jun 20, 2008 2:07 pm (PDT)

>

> I recently was tested by a nurse practitioner (my Dr. would not listen

> to my litany of complaints and told me it was just " getting older " ) and

> my TSH is at 99.00! The t3 and t4 were not tested yet. I am on 50

> mcgs. of Levothyroxine for 6 weeks and then I am to have more blood

> work done. Since reading some info. on your site, I believe I need to

> travel over 100 miles to find a Doc that will consider Armor or another

> natural treatement. My symptoms were: chronic low grade headache,

> recurrant low back pain, weight gain, puffy face and eyes, pain in

> hands and wrists (pseudo carpal tunnel), exhaustion, confusion,

> occasional slurring of words, dry skin and hair etc. I guess I was

> textbook hypo. Within 3 days of the Levo. my backache and headaches

> have almost completely disappeared! No other relief yet. Should I ask

> for t3 and t4 testing with the " conservative " clinic I am going to or

> should I venture out to a holistic doc asap? I am 53 yo. and otherwise

> very healthy.

>

> Thanks,

> Barbara

[Guest guest]

>

>.

>

> Armour isn't really " natural " but it does come from an animal if that

> suits you better. And it has T3 as well as T4; although I doubt that

> more than a very small percentage of people have a problem making

enough

> T3 from T4. Again, something you'd never guess from this list.

>

>

> You would never guess it from at least two other groups I belong to

. This is a problem for people. Peer review or not.

Venizia

> >

[Guest guest]

It is very unfortunate that often some percentage of patients do not

respond as well or at all to the preferred treatment. Those patients

obviously need something other than the preferred treatment.

Information involving such treatment tends to be very limited or none

existent or just plain wrong or dangerous. In such a situation it's

natural to turn to others for help, and for the others to try to help.

One of the greatest responsibilities of a physician is this: " First, do

no harm " . When we as amateurs try to help we should IMHO follow this

same advice. Even if I have found something that works for me that does

not mean that it will work for you; or even that it will not be harmful

to you. So my advice to you should be carefully coached to make sure

you understand you are in uncharted waters and that you should proceed

with extreme caution. Wholesale advice to everyone and his dog that

" you should take this and this and this " are IMHO very risky.

..

..

>

> Brand new to hypo and to this group. Need some advice.........

>

<hypothyroidism/message/39453;_ylc=X3oDMTJxN3IwOGZ\

nBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMzk0NTMEc2V\

jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTIxNDEzMTQ5NQ-->

>

>

>

> Posted by: " venizia1948 " nelsonck@...

>

<mailto:nelsonck@...?Subject=%20Re%3ABrand%20new%20to%20hypo%20and%20t\

o%20this%20group%2E%20%20Need%20some%20advice%2E%2E%2E%2E%2E%2E%2E%2E%2E>

> venizia1948 <venizia1948>

>

>

> Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:24 pm (PDT)

>

>

> >

> >.

> >

> > Armour isn't really " natural " but it does come from an animal if that

> > suits you better. And it has T3 as well as T4; although I doubt that

> > more than a very small percentage of people have a problem making

> enough

> > T3 from T4. Again, something you'd never guess from this list.

> >

> >

> > You would never guess it from at least two other groups I belong to

> . This is a problem for people. Peer review or not.

>

> Venizia

[Guest guest]

Who says that synthetic thyroxine therapy is the " preferred " therapy and

yes, there is a lot of information if you look for it about " something

other " , and again yes, there is information that " tends to be very

limited or non existent or just plain wrong or dangerous about it " - in

exactly the same way there is about the " preferred " treatment. Why do

you think there are tens of thousands, probably millions of people who

feel the need for further information, help and support to regain their

health on the thousands of Internet thyroid forums such as this?

Sadly, the majority of physicians are being put into a situation where

they are doing harm, simply because of a lack of education at medical

school level - being taught by professors who's interests lay elsewhere.

WHY should we " as amateurs " follow this same advice. It is because my

physician believed in " doing no harm " that he kept me so ill on

levothyroxine alone that had I not sought out a private hormone

specialist, I would now be confined to a wheelchair. I am unable to

convert from T4 to T3 - there are many reasons for this, I am one of the

LARGE minority who has this problem. I was put onto Armour and I look

after myself. I know if I need an increase, I know when I do not. I have

a brain which I lost of synthetic thyroxine and, thanks to Armour, is

once again fully functioning and I use it intelligently to help myself,

and hopefully, in my small way, to help others.

We are NOT in " unchartered waters " as you say...and most of us are here

because we want to learn how to take care of ourselves, because our

doctors have failed us through the " preferred treatment " . Natural

desiccated thyroid extract was the ONLY medication for sufferers of

hypothyroid sufferers since 1894 to around the 1970s after synthetic

thyroxine was manufactured and became the " gold standard " according to

the majority of endocrinologists - and yes, patients were treated

successfully and safely with much higher doses than the " preferred

treatment " of today - simply because they treated a patient according to

their symptoms and signs, and not the damned TSH results.

http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/resp_bta_armour.pdf

<http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/resp_bta_armour.pdf>

http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/resp_btat4t3.pdf

<http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/resp_btat4t3.pdf>

Sheila - www.tpa-uk.org.uk <http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk>

>

> It is very unfortunate that often some percentage of patients do not

> respond as well or at all to the preferred treatment. Those patients

> obviously need something other than the preferred treatment.

> Information involving such treatment tends to be very limited or none

> existent or just plain wrong or dangerous. In such a situation it's

> natural to turn to others for help, and for the others to try to help.

>

> One of the greatest responsibilities of a physician is this: " First,

do

> no harm " . When we as amateurs try to help we should IMHO follow this

> same advice. Even if I have found something that works for me that

does

> not mean that it will work for you; or even that it will not be

harmful

> to you. So my advice to you should be carefully coached to make sure

> you understand you are in uncharted waters and that you should proceed

> with extreme caution. Wholesale advice to everyone and his dog that

> " you should take this and this and this " are IMHO very risky.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I quess we will all have to agree on one thing and that is to disagree. I

have been on armour for over 25 years and now it is not working, so I

am going to try the synthyroid.

One thing I have found out that alot of the groups on are pro

armour. I have been on several and this is the first group that has

respected my opinion on changing my meds and asking questions.

I have been attacked on other groups for suggesting to changed from

armour. I did not and still do not want to change and have been fighting

it for over a year, but now have come to the conclusion that my body is

telling me something.

I see my Daughter who was diagnosed with hashimoto a year ago

taking synthyroid and doing well. She is happy and losing weight. It took

a while to get the right dosage and I did tell here she would be better

on armour in the beginning, but she said if she was to have problems

she might check into it. She is lucky and I am hoping that it works for

me.

A good group is one that will tell the pros and cons about treatment and

let you decide on what you should do.

This is just my two cents and I hope that I have not offended anyone. I

would like to Thank the owners and all the ones who responded to all

my questions on the group for making me feel welcome and comforable

about posting my questions.

Betty

>

>

>

> Who says that synthetic thyroxine therapy is the " preferred " therapy

and

> yes, there is a lot of information if you look for it about " something

> other " , and again yes, there is information that " tends to be very

> limited or non existent or just plain wrong or dangerous about it " - in

> exactly the same way there is about the " preferred " treatment. Why

do

> you think there are tens of thousands, probably millions of people who

> feel the need for further information, help and support to regain their

> health on the thousands of Internet thyroid forums such as this?

>

> Sadly, the majority of physicians are being put into a situation where

> they are doing harm, simply because of a lack of education at medical

> school level - being taught by professors who's interests lay

elsewhere.

> WHY should we " as amateurs " follow this same advice. It is because

my

> physician believed in " doing no harm " that he kept me so ill on

> levothyroxine alone that had I not sought out a private hormone

> specialist, I would now be confined to a wheelchair. I am unable to

> convert from T4 to T3 - there are many reasons for this, I am one of

the

> LARGE minority who has this problem. I was put onto Armour and I

look

> after myself. I know if I need an increase, I know when I do not. I

have

> a brain which I lost of synthetic thyroxine and, thanks to Armour, is

> once again fully functioning and I use it intelligently to help myself,

> and hopefully, in my small way, to help others.

>

> We are NOT in " unchartered waters " as you say...and most of us are

here

> because we want to learn how to take care of ourselves, because our

> doctors have failed us through the " preferred treatment " . Natural

> desiccated thyroid extract was the ONLY medication for sufferers of

> hypothyroid sufferers since 1894 to around the 1970s after synthetic

> thyroxine was manufactured and became the " gold standard "

according to

> the majority of endocrinologists - and yes, patients were treated

> successfully and safely with much higher doses than the " preferred

> treatment " of today - simply because they treated a patient according

to

> their symptoms and signs, and not the damned TSH results.

[Guest guest]

I quess we will all have to agree on one thing and that is to disagree. I

have been on armour for over 25 years and now it is not working, so I

am going to try the synthyroid.

One thing I have found out that alot of the groups on are pro

armour. I have been on several and this is the first group that has

respected my opinion on changing my meds and asking questions.

I have been attacked on other groups for suggesting to changed from

armour. I did not and still do not want to change and have been fighting

it for over a year, but now have come to the conclusion that my body is

telling me something.

I see my Daughter who was diagnosed with hashimoto a year ago

taking synthyroid and doing well. She is happy and losing weight. It took

a while to get the right dosage and I did tell here she would be better

on armour in the beginning, but she said if she was to have problems

she might check into it. She is lucky and I am hoping that it works for

me.

A good group is one that will tell the pros and cons about treatment and

let you decide on what you should do.

This is just my two cents and I hope that I have not offended anyone. I

would like to Thank the owners and all the ones who responded to all

my questions on the group for making me feel welcome and comforable

about posting my questions.

Betty

>

>

>

> Who says that synthetic thyroxine therapy is the " preferred " therapy

and

> yes, there is a lot of information if you look for it about " something

> other " , and again yes, there is information that " tends to be very

> limited or non existent or just plain wrong or dangerous about it " - in

> exactly the same way there is about the " preferred " treatment. Why

do

> you think there are tens of thousands, probably millions of people who

> feel the need for further information, help and support to regain their

> health on the thousands of Internet thyroid forums such as this?

>

> Sadly, the majority of physicians are being put into a situation where

> they are doing harm, simply because of a lack of education at medical

> school level - being taught by professors who's interests lay

elsewhere.

> WHY should we " as amateurs " follow this same advice. It is because

my

> physician believed in " doing no harm " that he kept me so ill on

> levothyroxine alone that had I not sought out a private hormone

> specialist, I would now be confined to a wheelchair. I am unable to

> convert from T4 to T3 - there are many reasons for this, I am one of

the

> LARGE minority who has this problem. I was put onto Armour and I

look

> after myself. I know if I need an increase, I know when I do not. I

have

> a brain which I lost of synthetic thyroxine and, thanks to Armour, is

> once again fully functioning and I use it intelligently to help myself,

> and hopefully, in my small way, to help others.

>

> We are NOT in " unchartered waters " as you say...and most of us are

here

> because we want to learn how to take care of ourselves, because our

> doctors have failed us through the " preferred treatment " . Natural

> desiccated thyroid extract was the ONLY medication for sufferers of

> hypothyroid sufferers since 1894 to around the 1970s after synthetic

> thyroxine was manufactured and became the " gold standard "

according to

> the majority of endocrinologists - and yes, patients were treated

> successfully and safely with much higher doses than the " preferred

> treatment " of today - simply because they treated a patient according

to

> their symptoms and signs, and not the damned TSH results.

[Guest guest]

my sentiments exactly. actually I think the internet is revolutionizing

medicine--maybe the docs haven't gotten the email about it yet. support groups

help ppl get well and cut through the crap. We could and will cut health care

costs in half with better quality care.

Gracia

Who says that synthetic thyroxine therapy is the " preferred " therapy and

yes, there is a lot of information if you look for it about " something

other " , and again yes, there is information that " tends to be very

limited or non existent or just plain wrong or dangerous about it " - in

exactly the same way there is about the " preferred " treatment. Why do

you think there are tens of thousands, probably millions of people who

feel the need for further information, help and support to regain their

health on the thousands of Internet thyroid forums such as this?

Sadly, the majority of physicians are being put into a situation where

they are doing harm, simply because of a lack of education at medical

school level - being taught by professors who's interests lay elsewhere.

WHY should we " as amateurs " follow this same advice. It is because my

physician believed in " doing no harm " that he kept me so ill on

levothyroxine alone that had I not sought out a private hormone

specialist, I would now be confined to a wheelchair. I am unable to

convert from T4 to T3 - there are many reasons for this, I am one of the

LARGE minority who has this problem. I was put onto Armour and I look

after myself. I know if I need an increase, I know when I do not. I have

a brain which I lost of synthetic thyroxine and, thanks to Armour, is

once again fully functioning and I use it intelligently to help myself,

and hopefully, in my small way, to help others.

We are NOT in " unchartered waters " as you say...and most of us are here

because we want to learn how to take care of ourselves, because our

doctors have failed us through the " preferred treatment " . Natural

desiccated thyroid extract was the ONLY medication for sufferers of

hypothyroid sufferers since 1894 to around the 1970s after synthetic

thyroxine was manufactured and became the " gold standard " according to

the majority of endocrinologists - and yes, patients were treated

successfully and safely with much higher doses than the " preferred

treatment " of today - simply because they treated a patient according to

their symptoms and signs, and not the damned TSH results.

http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/resp_bta_armour.pdf

<http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/resp_bta_armour.pdf>

http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/resp_btat4t3.pdf

<http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/resp_btat4t3.pdf>

Sheila - www.tpa-uk.org.uk <http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk>

>

> It is very unfortunate that often some percentage of patients do not

> respond as well or at all to the preferred treatment. Those patients

> obviously need something other than the preferred treatment.

> Information involving such treatment tends to be very limited or none

> existent or just plain wrong or dangerous. In such a situation it's

> natural to turn to others for help, and for the others to try to help.

>

> One of the greatest responsibilities of a physician is this: " First,

do

> no harm " . When we as amateurs try to help we should IMHO follow this

> same advice. Even if I have found something that works for me that

does

> not mean that it will work for you; or even that it will not be

harmful

> to you. So my advice to you should be carefully coached to make sure

> you understand you are in uncharted waters and that you should proceed

> with extreme caution. Wholesale advice to everyone and his dog that

> " you should take this and this and this " are IMHO very risky.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

let me qualify myself- I am a nurse practitioner and I treat patients and I

have some of them on armour and I take armour myself and my own thyroid

physician takes armour, herself. that said- maybe your hormone needs have

changed and your old dose may need to be adjusted. I just don't think switching

to a T4 only medication is going to work for you. But that is my bias- I was on

synthroid for years and I hated it. I am doing so much better on armour.

as long as you are a converter of T4 to T3 you may be fine- but if you are not-

then you won't do well on synthroid because it has only 1 hormone- T4. if you

switch you will need to compensate for the missing calcitonin that was

protecting your bones. synthroid does not have it. make sure you take extra

calcium to prevent bone loss.

Also, if your adrenal glands' status has changed that also might be the problem.

you may need to treat your adrenals inorder for the armour to work properly. I

would check them out before switching..

nancie

..

From: myirishcottage

Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 6:08 AM

hypothyroidism

Subject: Re:Brand new to hypo and to this group. Need some

advice.........

I quess we will all have to agree on one thing and that is to disagree. I

have been on armour for over 25 years and now it is not working, so I

am going to try the synthyroid.

One thing I have found out that alot of the groups on are pro

armour. I have been on several and this is the first group that has

respected my opinion on changing my meds and asking questions.

I have been attacked on other groups for suggesting to changed from

armour. I did not and still do not want to change and have been fighting

it for over a year, but now have come to the conclusion that my body is

telling me something.

I see my Daughter who was diagnosed with hashimoto a year ago

taking synthyroid and doing well. She is happy and losing weight. It took

a while to get the right dosage and I did tell here she would be better

on armour in the beginning, but she said if she was to have problems

she might check into it. She is lucky and I am hoping that it works for

me.

A good group is one that will tell the pros and cons about treatment and

let you decide on what you should do.

This is just my two cents and I hope that I have not offended anyone. I

would like to Thank the owners and all the ones who responded to all

my questions on the group for making me feel welcome and comforable

about posting my questions.

Betty

>

>

>

> Who says that synthetic thyroxine therapy is the " preferred " therapy

and

> yes, there is a lot of information if you look for it about " something

> other " , and again yes, there is information that " tends to be very

> limited or non existent or just plain wrong or dangerous about it " - in

> exactly the same way there is about the " preferred " treatment. Why

do

> you think there are tens of thousands, probably millions of people who

> feel the need for further information, help and support to regain their

> health on the thousands of Internet thyroid forums such as this?

>

> Sadly, the majority of physicians are being put into a situation where

> they are doing harm, simply because of a lack of education at medical

> school level - being taught by professors who's interests lay

elsewhere.

> WHY should we " as amateurs " follow this same advice. It is because

my

> physician believed in " doing no harm " that he kept me so ill on

> levothyroxine alone that had I not sought out a private hormone

> specialist, I would now be confined to a wheelchair. I am unable to

> convert from T4 to T3 - there are many reasons for this, I am one of

the

> LARGE minority who has this problem. I was put onto Armour and I

look

> after myself. I know if I need an increase, I know when I do not. I

have

> a brain which I lost of synthetic thyroxine and, thanks to Armour, is

> once again fully functioning and I use it intelligently to help myself,

> and hopefully, in my small way, to help others.

>

> We are NOT in " unchartered waters " as you say...and most of us are

here

> because we want to learn how to take care of ourselves, because our

> doctors have failed us through the " preferred treatment " . Natural

> desiccated thyroid extract was the ONLY medication for sufferers of

> hypothyroid sufferers since 1894 to around the 1970s after synthetic

> thyroxine was manufactured and became the " gold standard "

according to

> the majority of endocrinologists - and yes, patients were treated

> successfully and safely with much higher doses than the " preferred

> treatment " of today - simply because they treated a patient according

to

> their symptoms and signs, and not the damned TSH results.

[Guest guest]

Chuck recently quoted the quantity of Armour and Synthroid [and its

equivalents???] sold and that suggested that more than 98% of the

treatment of hypothyroidism is with Synthroid. That leaves less than 2%

to be treated with Armour; maybe closer to one percent. That strongly

suggests that Synthroid is the preferred treatment of the doctors

prescribing it.

Which, of course, does not prove it to be any better, or even as good.

But it does mean it is the standard treatment.

One of the reasons I believe Synthroid treatment is reasonably effective

for a large majority of hypothyroidism patients [other than the above]

is that we DO NOT have " ...probably millions... " seeking help on this list.

There are some people who do not convert T4 to T3 as well as needed [or

at all???]; and some who may have binding or other problems far beyond

my understanding. I don't have any well researched numbers to establish

how big that percentage of patients is but from what I've seen and read

I suspect it is tiny, not large. I believe that if it were large there

would be much more Armour sold than less than 2% of the doses of

Synthroid; and I suspect we would have a heck of a lot more people on

this list seeking help. If you have a solid estimate from a credible

source I'd like to have a better number.

You mentioned that years ago Armour was used and AFAIK that's true. But

cocaine was also used and highly recommended; but that fact does not

mean it should be the preferred treatment today for those illnesses for

which it was recommended long ago. In many areas we have more knowledge

today than we did many decades ago.

I'm glad you're successful in your treatment today. But I think you

would be ill advised to recommend to anyone that they take exactly what

you do; as we are all different. If you do choose to advise others to

self dose far outside of accepted standards then please help those in

making that decision by providing as much information as possible;

especially where ill results are possible.

Luck,

>

> Brand new to hypo and to this group. Need some advice.........

>

<hypothyroidism/message/39501;_ylc=X3oDMTJxaTF1Y2Z\

hBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMzk1MDEEc2V\

jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTIxNDIxNzc1Mg-->

>

>

>

> Posted by: " campaigner77 " sheilaturner@...

>

<mailto:sheilaturner@...?Subject=%20Re%3ABrand%20new%20to%20hypo%20and\

%20to%20this%20group%2E%20%20Need%20some%20advice%2E%2E%2E%2E%2E%2E%2E%2E%2E>

> campaigner77 <campaigner77>

>

>

> Mon Jun 23, 2008 1:22 am (PDT)

>

>

>

> Who says that synthetic thyroxine therapy is the " preferred " therapy and

> yes, there is a lot of information if you look for it about " something

> other " , and again yes, there is information that " tends to be very

> limited or non existent or just plain wrong or dangerous about it " - in

> exactly the same way there is about the " preferred " treatment. Why do

> you think there are tens of thousands, probably millions of people who

> feel the need for further information, help and support to regain their

> health on the thousands of Internet thyroid forums such as this?

>

> Sadly, the majority of physicians are being put into a situation where

> they are doing harm, simply because of a lack of education at medical

> school level - being taught by professors who's interests lay elsewhere.

> WHY should we " as amateurs " follow this same advice. It is because my

> physician believed in " doing no harm " that he kept me so ill on

> levothyroxine alone that had I not sought out a private hormone

> specialist, I would now be confined to a wheelchair. I am unable to

> convert from T4 to T3 - there are many reasons for this, I am one of the

> LARGE minority who has this problem. I was put onto Armour and I look

> after myself. I know if I need an increase, I know when I do not. I have

> a brain which I lost of synthetic thyroxine and, thanks to Armour, is

> once again fully functioning and I use it intelligently to help myself,

> and hopefully, in my small way, to help others.

>

> We are NOT in " unchartered waters " as you say...and most of us are here

> because we want to learn how to take care of ourselves, because our

> doctors have failed us through the " preferred treatment " . Natural

> desiccated thyroid extract was the ONLY medication for sufferers of

> hypothyroid sufferers since 1894 to around the 1970s after synthetic

> thyroxine was manufactured and became the " gold standard " according to

> the majority of endocrinologists - and yes, patients were treated

> successfully and safely with much higher doses than the " preferred

> treatment " of today - simply because they treated a patient according to

> their symptoms and signs, and not the damned TSH results.

>

> http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/resp_bta_armour.pdf

> <http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/resp_bta_armour.pdf>

> <http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/resp_bta_armour.pdf

> <http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/resp_bta_armour.pdf>>

>

> http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/resp_btat4t3.pdf

> <http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/resp_btat4t3.pdf>

> <http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/resp_btat4t3.pdf

> <http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/resp_btat4t3.pdf>>

>

> Sheila - www.tpa-uk.org.

> uk <http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk <http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk>>

> >

> > It is very unfortunate that often some percentage of patients do not

> > respond as well or at all to the preferred treatment. Those patients

> > obviously need something other than the preferred treatment.

> > Information involving such treatment tends to be very limited or none

> > existent or just plain wrong or dangerous. In such a situation it's

> > natural to turn to others for help, and for the others to try to help.

> >

> > One of the greatest responsibilities of a physician is this: " First,

> do

> > no harm " . When we as amateurs try to help we should IMHO follow this

> > same advice. Even if I have found something that works for me that

> does

> > not mean that it will work for you; or even that it will not be

> harmful

> > to you. So my advice to you should be carefully coached to make sure

> > you understand you are in uncharted waters and that you should proceed

> > with extreme caution. Wholesale advice to everyone and his dog that

> > " you should take this and this and this " are IMHO very risky.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi, Betty. I'm afraid that with some on this group that if you commit

the heresy of suggesting that Armour or iodine are not necessarily manna

from heaven you will be condemned to everlasting hell! [ggg] There have

been a few others who said Armour failed to work for them, but for the

most part given the beliefs of so many on the list they tend to be

rather quite. Those of us who only take Synthroid find suggestions that

we should " ...try Armour... " ; even though we have no symptoms that would

suggest we need T3.

At the same time I do find it a bit surprising that you have a problem

with Armour after so long. Basically as I understand it the results are

in many cases similar to Synthroid, except for those who do not convert

T4 to T3 [probably less than 2%], and I am unaware of any problems that

excess T3 might cause. But as I'm just a lay person they may well be

there. Although I'm not a disciple of the Armour faith I will be a bit

surprised if T4 alone [synthroid] provides relief and Armour does not.

I totally agree with you as to what comprises a " good " group. At the

same time when someone posts misinformation clearly contrary to well

conducted studies you may find me among those who point out such a failing.

So take from me and the list whatever will help you; and provide

whatever help you can to others; and throw the rest in the garbage.

Best,

>

> Brand new to hypo and to this group. Need some advice.........

>

<hypothyroidism/message/39502;_ylc=X3oDMTJxamVjZXA\

yBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMzk1MDIEc2V\

jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTIxNDI4MDk0NQ-->

>

>

>

> Posted by: " myirishcottage " bjshamrock@...

>

<mailto:bjshamrock@...?Subject=%20Re%3ABrand%20new%20to%20hypo%20and%20t\

o%20this%20group%2E%20%20Need%20some%20advice%2E%2E%2E%2E%2E%2E%2E%2E%2E>

> myirishcottage <myirishcottage>

>

>

> Mon Jun 23, 2008 5:47 am (PDT)

>

> I quess we will all have to agree on one thing and that is to disagree. I

> have been on armour for over 25 years and now it is not working, so I

> am going to try the synthyroid.

>

> One thing I have found out that alot of the groups on are pro

> armour. I have been on several and this is the first group that has

> respected my opinion on changing my meds and asking questions.

>

> I have been attacked on other groups for suggesting to changed from

> armour. I did not and still do not want to change and have been fighting

> it for over a year, but now have come to the conclusion that my body is

> telling me something.

>

> I see my Daughter who was diagnosed with hashimoto a year ago

> taking synthyroid and doing well. She is happy and losing weight. It took

> a while to get the right dosage and I did tell here she would be better

> on armour in the beginning, but she said if she was to have problems

> she might check into it. She is lucky and I am hoping that it works for

> me.

>

> A good group is one that will tell the pros and cons about treatment and

> let you decide on what you should do.

>

> This is just my two cents and I hope that I have not offended anyone. I

> would like to Thank the owners and all the ones who responded to all

> my questions on the group for making me feel welcome and comforable

> about posting my questions.

>

> Betty

>

>

> >

> >

> >

> > Who says that synthetic thyroxine therapy is the " preferred " therapy

> and

> > yes, there is a lot of information if you look for it about " something

> > other " , and again yes, there is information that " tends to be very

> > limited or non existent or just plain wrong or dangerous about it " - in

> > exactly the same way there is about the " preferred " treatment. Why

> do

> > you think there are tens of thousands, probably millions of people who

> > feel the need for further information, help and support to regain their

> > health on the thousands of Internet thyroid forums such as this?

> >

> > Sadly, the majority of physicians are being put into a situation where

> > they are doing harm, simply because of a lack of education at medical

> > school level - being taught by professors who's interests lay

> elsewhere.

> > WHY should we " as amateurs " follow this same advice. It is because

> my

> > physician believed in " doing no harm " that he kept me so ill on

> > levothyroxine alone that had I not sought out a private hormone

> > specialist, I would now be confined to a wheelchair. I am unable to

> > convert from T4 to T3 - there are many reasons for this, I am one of

> the

> > LARGE minority who has this problem. I was put onto Armour and I

> look

> > after myself. I know if I need an increase, I know when I do not. I

> have

> > a brain which I lost of synthetic thyroxine and, thanks to Armour, is

> > once again fully functioning and I use it intelligently to help myself,

> > and hopefully, in my small way, to help others.

> >

> > We are NOT in " unchartered waters " as you say...and most of us are

> here

> > because we want to learn how to take care of ourselves, because our

> > doctors have failed us through the " preferred treatment " . Natural

> > desiccated thyroid extract was the ONLY medication for sufferers of

> > hypothyroid sufferers since 1894 to around the 1970s after synthetic

> > thyroxine was manufactured and became the " gold standard "

> according to

> > the majority of endocrinologists - and yes, patients were treated

> > successfully and safely with much higher doses than the " preferred

> > treatment " of today - simply because they treated a patient according

> to

> > their symptoms and signs, and not the damned TSH results.

[Guest guest]

> One of the reasons I believe Synthroid treatment is reasonably

effective

> for a large majority of hypothyroidism patients [other than the above]

> is that we DO NOT have " ...probably millions... " seeking help on this

list.

This list is not the only list on the Internet made up of people seeking

support and help. There are thousands of such groups made up of people

who joined them because they are not getting the help, support or the

particular medication they need to make their hypothyriod symptoms go

away. We are all aware that synthetic thyroxine is the " treatment of

choice " for the majority of sufferers of hypothyroidism. We are talking

here about those people who are not helped by thyroxine alone.

>

> There are some people who do not convert T4 to T3 as well as needed

[or

> at all???]; and some who may have binding or other problems far beyond

> my understanding. I don't have any well researched numbers to

establish

> how big that percentage of patients is but from what I've seen and

read

> I suspect it is tiny, not large.

There is much research to show this problem is not " tiny " sadly.

I believe that if it were large there

> would be much more Armour sold than less than 2% of the doses of

> Synthroid; and I suspect we would have a heck of a lot more people on

> this list seeking help. If you have a solid estimate from a credible

> source I'd like to have a better number.

There are reasons why more Armour or T4/T3 combination therapy is not

used which I personally believe, are political, but as I do not believe

in conspiracy theories, I will leave that to others. I am just a seeker

after truth.

>

> You mentioned that years ago Armour was used and AFAIK that's true.

No, I mentioned that " desiccated thyroid extract " was used - I did not

mention a brand.

But

> cocaine was also used and highly recommended; but that fact does not

> mean it should be the preferred treatment today for those illnesses

for

> which it was recommended long ago. In many areas we have more

knowledge

> today than we did many decades ago.

Not sure what " illnesses " you are talking about where the use of cocaine

was " highly recommended " . Cocaine today can be used by a doctor for

legitimate medical uses, such as local anesthesia for some eye, ear, and

throat surgeries, but has high poential for abuse.Today, cocaine is a

Schedule II drug under the Controlled Substances Act of 1970. We are

talking about natural desiccated thyroid extract here.

> I'm glad you're successful in your treatment today. But I think you

> would be ill advised to recommend to anyone that they take exactly

what

> you do; as we are all different.

I NEVER recommed to anyone that they take exactly what I do. I try to

give the facts as I see them so that people can look at if they so wish

and make their own minds up about what road they might need to follow to

make them well.

If you do choose to advise others to

> self dose far outside of accepted standards then please help those in

> making that decision by providing as much information as possible;

> especially where ill results are possible.

I never 'advise', I am not medically qualified. However, yes, I do

'recommend' from studies and research, and take into account the

experience of myself and others in any recommendations, and I do try to

give facts as far as I can so that other members who are not getting

well on the " preferred treatment " of thyroxine alone can find out for

themselves what might work for them. Sadly, the fact is that for those

sufferers who NEED to " self dose " because their medical practitioner

does not have the knowledge to help them regain their normal health, or

who are too afraid to go outside the " preferred therapy " , they are

forced into a situation where they have to self medicate. Many need help

and support to help them go down that road and thankfully, there are

other members who can help them by providing as much information for

them as possible.

Sheila

[Guest guest]

Hi, Sheila. I think most of your points are well intended and well

founded; except for the hyperbole [thousands of groups like this???].

If you want to know the illnesses for which cocaine was recommended look

here:

http://www.a1b2c3.com/drugs/coc03.htm

Or just put " cocaine medical use " into Google and check out the links.

My purpose was not to discuss cocaine in depth but rather to demonstrate

that a recommendation such as you provided from decades ago might have

been supplemented by later and better knowledge; cocaine is an obvious

example. Sorry I used the present brand name for the major brand of

desiccated thyroid extract rather than the generic.

If you have a credible number for the percentage of people who cannot

convert T4 to T3 I'd like to see it. Or maybe a link.

Thanks,

PS: Apparently we pretty much agree that those here who regularly

prescribe for all and sunday are ill advised to do so...

>

> Brand new to hypo and to this group. Need some advice.........

>

<hypothyroidism/message/39684;_ylc=X3oDMTJxdTh0YTV\

vBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMzk2ODQEc2V\

jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTIxNDU2Mzc4MA-->

>

>

>

> Posted by: " campaigner77 " sheilaturner@...

>

<mailto:sheilaturner@...?Subject=%20Re%3ABrand%20new%20to%20hypo%20and\

%20to%20this%20group%2E%20%20Need%20some%20advice%2E%2E%2E%2E%2E%2E%2E%2E%2E>

> campaigner77 <campaigner77>

>

>

> Fri Jun 27, 2008 3:19 am (PDT)

>

>

>

> > One of the reasons I believe Synthroid treatment is reasonably

> effective

> > for a large majority of hypothyroidism patients [other than the above]

> > is that we DO NOT have " ...probably millions... " seeking help on this

> list.

>

> This list is not the only list on the Internet made up of people seeking

> support and help. There are thousands of such groups made up of people

> who joined them because they are not getting the help, support or the

> particular medication they need to make their hypothyriod symptoms go

> away. We are all aware that synthetic thyroxine is the " treatment of

> choice " for the majority of sufferers of hypothyroidism. We are talking

> here about those people who are not helped by thyroxine alone.

> >

> > There are some people who do not convert T4 to T3 as well as needed

> [or

> > at all???]; and some who may have binding or other problems far beyond

> > my understanding. I don't have any well researched numbers to

> establish

> > how big that percentage of patients is but from what I've seen and

> read

> > I suspect it is tiny, not large.

>

> There is much research to show this problem is not " tiny " sadly.

>

> I believe that if it were large there

> > would be much more Armour sold than less than 2% of the doses of

> > Synthroid; and I suspect we would have a heck of a lot more people on

> > this list seeking help. If you have a solid estimate from a credible

> > source I'd like to have a better number.

>

> There are reasons why more Armour or T4/T3 combination therapy is not

> used which I personally believe, are political, but as I do not believe

> in conspiracy theories, I will leave that to others. I am just a seeker

> after truth.

> >

> > You mentioned that years ago Armour was used and AFAIK that's true.

>

> No, I mentioned that " desiccated thyroid extract " was used - I did not

> mention a brand.

>

> But

> > cocaine was also used and highly recommended; but that fact does not

> > mean it should be the preferred treatment today for those illnesses

> for

> > which it was recommended long ago. In many areas we have more

> knowledge

> > today than we did many decades ago.

>

> Not sure what " illnesses " you are talking about where the use of cocaine

> was " highly recommended "

> . Cocaine today can be used by a doctor for

> legitimate medical uses, such as local anesthesia for some eye, ear, and

> throat surgeries, but has high poential for abuse.Today, cocaine is a

> Schedule II drug under the Controlled Substances Act of 1970. We are

> talking about natural desiccated thyroid extract here.

>

> > I'm glad you're successful in your treatment today. But I think you

> > would be ill advised to recommend to anyone that they take exactly

> what

> > you do; as we are all different.

>

> I NEVER recommed to anyone that they take exactly what I do. I try to

> give the facts as I see them so that people can look at if they so wish

> and make their own minds up about what road they might need to follow to

> make them well.

>

> If you do choose to advise others to

> > self dose far outside of accepted standards then please help those in

> > making that decision by providing as much information as possible;

> > especially where ill results are possible.

>

> I never 'advise', I am not medically qualified. However, yes, I do

> 'recommend' from studies and research, and take into account the

> experience of myself and others in any recommendations, and I do try to

> give facts as far as I can so that other members who are not getting

> well on the " preferred treatment " of thyroxine alone can find out for

> themselves what might work for them. Sadly, the fact is that for those

> sufferers who NEED to " self dose " because their medical practitioner

> does not have the knowledge to help them regain their normal health, or

> who are too afraid to go outside the " preferred therapy " , they are

> forced into a situation where they have to self medicate. Many need help

> and support to help them go down that road and thankfully, there are

> other members who can help them by providing as much information for

> them as possible.

>

> Sheila