Guest guest Posted January 30, 2008 Report Share Posted January 30, 2008 A while ago someone (I think it was here) mentioned that those of us without insurance aren't responsible for more on the bill than an insurance company would pay. Does anyone know anymore about this? Thanks, --- Gracia <circe@...> wrote: > > you can't buy Lugols or Iodoral in a HFS. you > can order it from http://www.breastcancerchoices.org > > http://www.illnessisoptional.com > http://www.jcrows.com (I think) > you can get iodine loading test from > http://helpmythyroid.com > Gracia > > Can you just buy iodine in a vitamin store? > > On Jan 30, 2008 1:55 AM, Gracia <circe@...> > wrote: > > > > > horse puckey > > just take iodine/iodide. > > Gracia > > > > Recent Activity > a.. 18New Members > Visit Your Group > Meditation and > Lovingkindness > > A Group > > to share and learn. > > Health > Memory Loss > > Are you at risk > > for Alzheimers? > > Drive Traffic > Sponsored Search > > can help increase > > your site traffic. > . > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2008 Report Share Posted January 30, 2008 I don't know the answer to this but it sure seems right to me. However, I know I been charged much more than any insurance company would have to pay for dental work. If there is such a law and it is valid in all states I would love to know what it is. Roni Silver <susanjsilver@...> wrote: A while ago someone (I think it was here) mentioned that those of us without insurance aren't responsible for more on the bill than an insurance company would pay. Does anyone know anymore about this? Thanks, --- Gracia <circe@...> wrote: > > you can't buy Lugols or Iodoral in a HFS. you > can order it from http://www.breastcancerchoices.org > > http://www.illnessisoptional.com > http://www.jcrows.com (I think) > you can get iodine loading test from > http://helpmythyroid.com > Gracia > > Can you just buy iodine in a vitamin store? > > On Jan 30, 2008 1:55 AM, Gracia <circe@...> > wrote: > > > > > horse puckey > > just take iodine/iodide. > > Gracia > > > > Recent Activity > a.. 18New Members > Visit Your Group > Meditation and > Lovingkindness > > A Group > > to share and learn. > > Health > Memory Loss > > Are you at risk > > for Alzheimers? > > Drive Traffic > Sponsored Search > > can help increase > > your site traffic. > . > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 Roni, I work freelance and so have no insurance whatsoever. But in the past, when I have had it, I noticed that insurance paid only a small fraction of what doctors charge. If I find such a law, I'll let you (everyone I know) about it! --- Roni Molin <matchermaam@...> wrote: > I don't know the answer to this but it sure seems > right to me. However, I know I been > charged much more than any insurance company would > have to pay for dental work. > If there is such a law and it is valid in all > states I would love to know what it is. > Roni > > Silver <susanjsilver@...> wrote: > > A while ago someone (I think it was here) mentioned > that those of us without insurance aren't > responsible > for more on the bill than an insurance company would > pay. Does anyone know anymore about this? > > Thanks, > > > --- Gracia <circe@...> wrote: > > > > > you can't buy Lugols or Iodoral in a HFS. you > > can order it from > http://www.breastcancerchoices.org > > > > http://www.illnessisoptional.com > > http://www.jcrows.com (I think) > > you can get iodine loading test from > > http://helpmythyroid.com > > Gracia > > > > Can you just buy iodine in a vitamin store? > > > > On Jan 30, 2008 1:55 AM, Gracia <circe@...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > horse puckey > > > just take iodine/iodide. > > > Gracia > > > > > > Recent Activity > > a.. 18New Members > > Visit Your Group > > Meditation and > > Lovingkindness > > > > A Group > > > > to share and learn. > > > > Health > > Memory Loss > > > > Are you at risk > > > > for Alzheimers? > > > > Drive Traffic > > Sponsored Search > > > > can help increase > > > > your site traffic. > > . > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with > Mobile. Try it now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 Thanks. I have argued this point with a dentist before, and got nowhere. They have some nerve to charge their patients that can least afford it (can't even afford insurance) way more than they get from the insurance companies that they accept. As far as I am concerned, it's immoral and unethical. Roni Silver <susanjsilver@...> wrote: Roni, I work freelance and so have no insurance whatsoever. But in the past, when I have had it, I noticed that insurance paid only a small fraction of what doctors charge. If I find such a law, I'll let you (everyone I know) about it! --- Roni Molin <matchermaam@...> wrote: > I don't know the answer to this but it sure seems > right to me. However, I know I been > charged much more than any insurance company would > have to pay for dental work. > If there is such a law and it is valid in all > states I would love to know what it is. > Roni > > Silver <susanjsilver@...> wrote: > > A while ago someone (I think it was here) mentioned > that those of us without insurance aren't > responsible > for more on the bill than an insurance company would > pay. Does anyone know anymore about this? > > Thanks, > > > --- Gracia <circe@...> wrote: > > > > > you can't buy Lugols or Iodoral in a HFS. you > > can order it from > http://www.breastcancerchoices.org > > > > http://www.illnessisoptional.com > > http://www.jcrows.com (I think) > > you can get iodine loading test from > > http://helpmythyroid.com > > Gracia > > > > Can you just buy iodine in a vitamin store? > > > > On Jan 30, 2008 1:55 AM, Gracia <circe@...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > horse puckey > > > just take iodine/iodide. > > > Gracia > > > > > > Recent Activity > > a.. 18New Members > > Visit Your Group > > Meditation and > > Lovingkindness > > > > A Group > > > > to share and learn. > > > > Health > > Memory Loss > > > > Are you at risk > > > > for Alzheimers? > > > > Drive Traffic > > Sponsored Search > > > > can help increase > > > > your site traffic. > > . > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with > Mobile. Try it now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make your homepage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 I strongly suspect it's bogus. I wonder if it wasn't thought up by the same " experts " that say you don't really have to pay your income taxes... > > Re: Doctors' bills > <hypothyroidism/message/36280;_ylc=X3oDMTJxZzIwazF\ mBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMzYyODAEc2V\ jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTIwMTc3NTY2MA--> > > > > Posted by: " Silver " susanjsilver@... > <mailto:susanjsilver@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Doctors%27%20bills> > susanjsilver <susanjsilver> > > > Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:48 pm (PST) > > > A while ago someone (I think it was here) mentioned > that those of us without insurance aren't responsible > for more on the bill than an insurance company would > pay. Does anyone know anymore about this? > > Thanks, > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 In the absence of price controls or a specific law then any provider of anything can charge whatever they wish, and when you accept the service you enter into an implied contract to pay whatever price is asked. If is not too uncommon for a health provider to charge more than the " usual and customary " price for a service, and in that case your insurance company will normally pay none of the amount above usual and customary. And you have to pay the difference. Providers who accept Medicare may not charge more than the amount negotiated to Medicare recipients. So if they charge $200 for a procedure and the Medicare negotiated amount is $100 then they may not charge you over $100 if you have Medicare. However, if you don't have Medicare they can and will charge you $200. > > > Re: Doctors' bills > <hypothyroidism/message/36290;_ylc=X3oDMTJxYXI1ZmY\ 3BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMzYyOTAEc2V\ jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTIwMTc3NTY2MA--> > > > > Posted by: " Roni Molin " matchermaam@... > <mailto:matchermaam@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Doctors%27%20bills> > matchermaam <matchermaam> > > > Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:59 pm (PST) > > I don't know the answer to this but it sure seems right to me. > However, I know I been > charged much more than any insurance company would have to pay for > dental work. > If there is such a law and it is valid in all states I would love to > know what it is. > Roni > > Silver <susanjsilver@... > <mailto:susanjsilver%40>> wrote: > > A while ago someone (I think it was here) mentioned > that those of us without insurance aren't responsible > for more on the bill than an insurance company would > pay. Does anyone know anymore about this? > > Thanks, > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 james- that also applies to insurance companies like blue cross/blue shield, etc if they are PPO's and they have a contract with the provider. what ever the insurx co deems more than what they agreed to charge for that particular service- it is then deemed prudent buyer savings [ as with blue cross] and the insured is not responsible for that amount. the insure is only responsible for their co-pay percentage. I know be cause I have blue cross prudent buyer which is a PPO. nancie Re: Doctors' bills In the absence of price controls or a specific law then any provider of anything can charge whatever they wish, and when you accept the service you enter into an implied contract to pay whatever price is asked. If is not too uncommon for a health provider to charge more than the " usual and customary " price for a service, and in that case your insurance company will normally pay none of the amount above usual and customary. And you have to pay the difference. Providers who accept Medicare may not charge more than the amount negotiated to Medicare recipients. So if they charge $200 for a procedure and the Medicare negotiated amount is $100 then they may not charge you over $100 if you have Medicare. However, if you don't have Medicare they can and will charge you $200. > > > Re: Doctors' bills > <hypothyroidism/message/36290;_ylc=X3oDMTJxYXI1ZmY\ 3BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMzYyOTAEc2V\ jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTIwMTc3NTY2MA--<hypo\ thyroidism/message/36290;_ylc=X3oDMTJxYXI1ZmY3BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NA\ RncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMzYyOTAEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTIwMT\ c3NTY2MA-->> > > > > Posted by: " Roni Molin " matchermaam@...<mailto:matchermaam%40> > <mailto:matchermaam@...<mailto:matchermaam%40>?Subject=%20Re%3A%2\ 0Doctors%27%20bills> > matchermaam <matchermaam<matchermaam>> > > > Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:59 pm (PST) > > I don't know the answer to this but it sure seems right to me. > However, I know I been > charged much more than any insurance company would have to pay for > dental work. > If there is such a law and it is valid in all states I would love to > know what it is. > Roni > > Silver <susanjsilver@...<mailto:susanjsilver%40> > <mailto:susanjsilver%40>> wrote: > > A while ago someone (I think it was here) mentioned > that those of us without insurance aren't responsible > for more on the bill than an insurance company would > pay. Does anyone know anymore about this? > > Thanks, > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2008 Report Share Posted February 1, 2008 That's true, and I also had Blue Cross Blue Shield at one time. I think most if not all major insurance companies have exactly the same set up. So I was mistaken in the case of a contract which limits the patient expense to the negotiated amount. However, I have had to personally pay the excess above usual and customary when no such contract existed. That was for dental services. However, it DOES NOT apply to uninsured persons. It only applies to the clients of the insurance company that negotiated the contract with the doctor or hospital. The original confusion may have arisen from a misunderstanding of the insurance companies such as BCBS or Aetna, where if they have negotiated a price with the provider then the client/patient does not have to pay the excess over " usual and customary " [or the contracted amount]; or it may have arisen from the somewhat similar Medicare provision. > > Re: Doctors' bills > <hypothyroidism/message/36298;_ylc=X3oDMTJxdjEzMHA\ zBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMzYyOTgEc2V\ jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTIwMTg2MDE5NQ--> > > > > Posted by: " Nancie Barnett " deifspirit@... > <mailto:deifspirit@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Doctors%27%20bills> > aspenfairy1 <aspenfairy1> > > > Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:22 pm (PST) > > james- > that also applies to insurance companies like blue cross/blue shield, > etc if they are PPO's and they have a contract with the provider. what > ever the insurx co deems more than what they agreed to charge for that > particular service- it is then deemed prudent buyer savings [ as with > blue cross] and the insured is not responsible for that amount. the > insure is only responsible for their co-pay percentage. > I know be cause I have blue cross prudent buyer which is a PPO. > nancie > Re: Doctors' bills > > In the absence of price controls or a specific law then any provider of > anything can charge whatever they wish, and when you accept the service > you enter into an implied contract to pay whatever price is asked. It > is not too uncommon for a health provider to charge more than the " usual > and customary " price for a service, and in that case your insurance > company will normally pay none of the amount above usual and customary. > And you have to pay the difference. > > Providers who accept Medicare may not charge more than the amount > negotiated to Medicare recipients. So if they charge $200 for a > procedure and the Medicare negotiated amount is $100 then they may not > charge you over $100 if you have Medicare. However, if you don't have > Medicare they can and will charge you $200. > > > > > > > > Re: Doctors' bills > > > <hypothyroidism/message/36290;_ylc=X3oDMTJxYXI1ZmY\ 3BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMzYyOTAEc2V\ jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTIwMTc3NTY2MA-- > <hypothyroidism/message/36290;_ylc=X3oDMTJxYXI1ZmY\ 3BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMzYyOTAEc2V\ jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTIwMTc3NTY2MA--><hyp\ othyroidism/message/36290;_ylc=X3oDMTJxYXI1ZmY3BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2N\ ARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMzYyOTAEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTIwM\ Tc3NTY2MA-- > <hypothyroidism/message/36290;_ylc=X3oDMTJxYXI1ZmY\ 3BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMzYyOTAEc2V\ jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTIwMTc3NTY2MA-->>> > > > > > > > > Posted by: " Roni Molin " matchermaam@... > <mailto:matchermaam%40><mailto:matchermaam > %40> > > <mailto:matchermaam@... > <mailto:matchermaam%40><mailto:matchermaam%40>?Subject=%20Re%3\ A%20Doctors%27%20bills> > > matchermaam <matchermaam > <matchermaam><matchermaam > <matchermaam>>> > > > > > > Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:59 pm (PST) > > > > I don't know the answer to this but it sure seems right to me. > > However, I know I been > > charged much more than any insurance company would have to pay for > > dental work. > > If there is such a law and it is valid in all states I would love to > > know what it is. > > Roni > > > > Silver <susanjsilver@... > <mailto:susanjsilver%40><mailto:susanjsilver%40> > > <mailto:susanjsilver%40>> wrote: > > > > A while ago someone (I think it was here) mentioned > > that those of us without insurance aren't responsible > > for more on the bill than an insurance company would > > pay. Does anyone know anymore about this? > > > > Thanks, > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2008 Report Share Posted February 1, 2008 Roni, You wrote: > As far as I am concerned, it's immoral and unethical. > It's part of the free market. Insurance companies can demand a lower price because they offer a large number of customers. The bigger the group, the lower the individual price. If you are alone, you pay the highest price. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2008 Report Share Posted February 1, 2008 To me, that is part of the healthcare crisis in America today. That is why so many people don't get the medical and/or dental care that they need and should have available to them. I am in hock for thousands and thousands of dollars because I could not afford to pay cash for the dental work I had, but am not totally poverty strickin, so don't qualify for help. Roni Chuck B <gumboyaya@...> wrote: Roni, You wrote: > As far as I am concerned, it's immoral and unethical. > It's part of the free market. Insurance companies can demand a lower price because they offer a large number of customers. The bigger the group, the lower the individual price. If you are alone, you pay the highest price. Chuck --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make your homepage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2008 Report Share Posted February 1, 2008 Yes, I couldn't agree more. It is a control thing. Keep the poor poorer, and let the rich have it all. See, most college students are in so much debt, that they need a good job to pay off debts (debts that can never be erased)...so it will keep people working to pay their debts, and they will be good workers because they are in so much debt. Then, you have the people who have mortgages, and they have to work, so they don't lose their house, and then you have the health insurance, Oh you have to have insurance, or you will be broke if something bad happens. WE PAY ALMOST $800 a month for CRAPPY insurance. But we have to have it. See, it is a total joke! PLEASE EVERYONE, you have to see SICKO. And I am not saying I totally agree with , but man, it opens your eyes. We are slaves in this country. Blessings, Roni Molin <matchermaam@...> wrote: To me, that is part of the healthcare crisis in America today. That is why so many people don't get the medical and/or dental care that they need and should have available to them. I am in hock for thousands and thousands of dollars because I could not afford to pay cash for the dental work I had, but am not totally poverty strickin, so don't qualify for help. Roni Chuck B <gumboyaya@...> wrote: Roni, You wrote: > As far as I am concerned, it's immoral and unethical. > It's part of the free market. Insurance companies can demand a lower price because they offer a large number of customers. The bigger the group, the lower the individual price. If you are alone, you pay the highest price. Chuck --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make your homepage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2008 Report Share Posted February 2, 2008 Once I find that someone's preferred modis operandi is to lie and spin and then lie and spin some more I have no interest in what he says. Anything by M. is on my list of " do not bother " . I guess if things get bad enough we can all swim across the Rio Grande and become illegal immigrants in Mexico! [ggg] > Re: Doctors' bills > <hypothyroidism/message/36315;_ylc=X3oDMTJxbGw3MjJ\ qBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMzYzMTUEc2V\ jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTIwMTk0ODU4NQ--> > > > > Posted by: " and Irwin " familyirwin@... > <mailto:familyirwin@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Doctors%27%20bills> > fritzalseth <fritzalseth> > > > Fri Feb 1, 2008 4:27 pm (PST) > > Yes, I couldn't agree more. It is a control thing. Keep the poor > poorer, and let the rich have it all. See, most college students are > in so much debt, that they need a good job to pay off debts (debts > that can never be erased)...so it will keep people working to pay > their debts, and they will be good workers because they are in so much > debt. Then, you have the people who have mortgages, and they have to > work, so they don't lose their house, and then you have the health > insurance, Oh you have to have insurance, or you will be broke if > something bad happens. WE PAY ALMOST $800 a month for CRAPPY > insurance. But we have to have it. See, it is a total joke! PLEASE > EVERYONE, you have to see SICKO. And I am not saying I totally agree > with , but man, it opens your eyes. We are slaves in this > country. > > Blessings, > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2008 Report Share Posted February 2, 2008 Great idea . I wonder how much financial aid we would get as soon as we get there. I wonder if we'll be able to drive, even if we can't read the road signs. I wonder how good the free medical care will be, and I wonder how much we will like our free or subsidized housing. I'm sure all the children will love their free educations too. Roni <res075oh@...> wrote: Once I find that someone's preferred modis operandi is to lie and spin and then lie and spin some more I have no interest in what he says. Anything by M. is on my list of " do not bother " . I guess if things get bad enough we can all swim across the Rio Grande and become illegal immigrants in Mexico! [ggg] > Re: Doctors' bills > <hypothyroidism/message/36315;_ylc=X3oDMTJxbGw3MjJ\ qBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMzYzMTUEc2V\ jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTIwMTk0ODU4NQ--> > > > > Posted by: " and Irwin " familyirwin@... > <mailto:familyirwin@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Doctors%27%20bills> > fritzalseth <fritzalseth> > > > Fri Feb 1, 2008 4:27 pm (PST) > > Yes, I couldn't agree more. It is a control thing. Keep the poor > poorer, and let the rich have it all. See, most college students are > in so much debt, that they need a good job to pay off debts (debts > that can never be erased)...so it will keep people working to pay > their debts, and they will be good workers because they are in so much > debt. Then, you have the people who have mortgages, and they have to > work, so they don't lose their house, and then you have the health > insurance, Oh you have to have insurance, or you will be broke if > something bad happens. WE PAY ALMOST $800 a month for CRAPPY > insurance. But we have to have it. See, it is a total joke! PLEASE > EVERYONE, you have to see SICKO. And I am not saying I totally agree > with , but man, it opens your eyes. We are slaves in this > country. > > Blessings, > --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2008 Report Share Posted February 2, 2008 This is off topic, but I am convinced that in the future will heralded as one of the few influential people that are dedicated to finding the truth in this current system of our leaders and media who do lie and spin and lie and spin. Personally, he's one of my heroes. --- <res075oh@...> wrote: > Once I find that someone's preferred modis operandi > is to lie and spin > and then lie and spin some more I have no interest > in what he says. > Anything by M. is on my list of " do not > bother " . > > I guess if things get bad enough we can all swim > across the Rio Grande > and become illegal immigrants in Mexico! [ggg] > > > > > > > Re: Doctors' bills > > > <hypothyroidism/message/36315;_ylc=X3oDMTJxbGw3MjJ\ qBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMzYzMTUEc2V\ jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTIwMTk0ODU4NQ--> > > > > > > > > Posted by: " and Irwin " > familyirwin@... > > > <mailto:familyirwin@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Doctors%27%20bills> > > fritzalseth > <fritzalseth> > > > > > > Fri Feb 1, 2008 4:27 pm (PST) > > > > Yes, I couldn't agree more. It is a control thing. > Keep the poor > > poorer, and let the rich have it all. See, most > college students are > > in so much debt, that they need a good job to pay > off debts (debts > > that can never be erased)...so it will keep people > working to pay > > their debts, and they will be good workers because > they are in so much > > debt. Then, you have the people who have > mortgages, and they have to > > work, so they don't lose their house, and then you > have the health > > insurance, Oh you have to have insurance, or you > will be broke if > > something bad happens. WE PAY ALMOST $800 a month > for CRAPPY > > insurance. But we have to have it. See, it is a > total joke! PLEASE > > EVERYONE, you have to see SICKO. And I am not > saying I totally agree > > with , but man, it opens your eyes. > We are slaves in this > > country. > > > > Blessings, > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2008 Report Share Posted February 2, 2008 I can't speak for Mexico, but I lived in Cuba for two years and had first-hand experience of their medical system. Nowhere else (and I've spent time in over a dozen countries) have I found more accessible, professional, approachable doctors, who were actually friendly and explained everything. The arrogance and attitudes that run rampant among doctors in the states was completely absent in my experience with Cuban doctors. Every few blocks had a doctor on call who made house calls in the middle of the night and, of course, it all was free. Chuck is right, our current situation follows the logic of our economic system, which makes one wonder if our economic system really is the best one out there... --- Roni Molin <matchermaam@...> wrote: > Great idea . I wonder how much financial aid we > would get as soon as we get there. I > wonder if we'll be able to drive, even if we can't > read the road signs. I wonder how good the free > medical care will be, and I wonder how much we will > like our free or subsidized housing. > I'm sure all the children will love their free > educations too. > > Roni > > <res075oh@...> wrote: > Once I find that someone's preferred modis > operandi is to lie and spin > and then lie and spin some more I have no interest > in what he says. > Anything by M. is on my list of " do not > bother " . > > I guess if things get bad enough we can all swim > across the Rio Grande > and become illegal immigrants in Mexico! [ggg] > > > > > Re: Doctors' bills > > > <hypothyroidism/message/36315;_ylc=X3oDMTJxbGw3MjJ\ qBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMzYzMTUEc2V\ jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTIwMTk0ODU4NQ--> > > > > > > > > Posted by: " and Irwin " > familyirwin@... > > > <mailto:familyirwin@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Doctors%27%20bills> > > fritzalseth > <fritzalseth> > > > > > > Fri Feb 1, 2008 4:27 pm (PST) > > > > Yes, I couldn't agree more. It is a control thing. > Keep the poor > > poorer, and let the rich have it all. See, most > college students are > > in so much debt, that they need a good job to pay > off debts (debts > > that can never be erased)...so it will keep people > working to pay > > their debts, and they will be good workers because > they are in so much > > debt. Then, you have the people who have > mortgages, and they have to > > work, so they don't lose their house, and then you > have the health > > insurance, Oh you have to have insurance, or you > will be broke if > > something bad happens. WE PAY ALMOST $800 a month > for CRAPPY > > insurance. But we have to have it. See, it is a > total joke! PLEASE > > EVERYONE, you have to see SICKO. And I am not > saying I totally agree > > with , but man, it opens your eyes. > We are slaves in this > > country. > > > > Blessings, > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them > fast with Search. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2008 Report Share Posted February 2, 2008 I was not referring to Cuba. I have never been there, but I know before the trouble between the two countries thousands of Americans used to vacation there and loved it. Once the current dictators in both countries are gone there will be an opportunity for the countries to become friends again. Roni Silver <susanjsilver@...> wrote: I can't speak for Mexico, but I lived in Cuba for two years and had first-hand experience of their medical system. Nowhere else (and I've spent time in over a dozen countries) have I found more accessible, professional, approachable doctors, who were actually friendly and explained everything. The arrogance and attitudes that run rampant among doctors in the states was completely absent in my experience with Cuban doctors. Every few blocks had a doctor on call who made house calls in the middle of the night and, of course, it all was free. Chuck is right, our current situation follows the logic of our economic system, which makes one wonder if our economic system really is the best one out there... --- Roni Molin <matchermaam@...> wrote: > Great idea . I wonder how much financial aid we > would get as soon as we get there. I > wonder if we'll be able to drive, even if we can't > read the road signs. I wonder how good the free > medical care will be, and I wonder how much we will > like our free or subsidized housing. > I'm sure all the children will love their free > educations too. > > Roni > > <res075oh@...> wrote: > Once I find that someone's preferred modis > operandi is to lie and spin > and then lie and spin some more I have no interest > in what he says. > Anything by M. is on my list of " do not > bother " . > > I guess if things get bad enough we can all swim > across the Rio Grande > and become illegal immigrants in Mexico! [ggg] > > > > > Re: Doctors' bills > > > <hypothyroidism/message/36315;_ylc=X3oDMTJxbGw3MjJ\ qBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMzYzMTUEc2V\ jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTIwMTk0ODU4NQ--> > > > > > > > > Posted by: " and Irwin " > familyirwin@... > > > <mailto:familyirwin@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Doctors%27%20bills> > > fritzalseth > <fritzalseth> > > > > > > Fri Feb 1, 2008 4:27 pm (PST) > > > > Yes, I couldn't agree more. It is a control thing. > Keep the poor > > poorer, and let the rich have it all. See, most > college students are > > in so much debt, that they need a good job to pay > off debts (debts > > that can never be erased)...so it will keep people > working to pay > > their debts, and they will be good workers because > they are in so much > > debt. Then, you have the people who have > mortgages, and they have to > > work, so they don't lose their house, and then you > have the health > > insurance, Oh you have to have insurance, or you > will be broke if > > something bad happens. WE PAY ALMOST $800 a month > for CRAPPY > > insurance. But we have to have it. See, it is a > total joke! PLEASE > > EVERYONE, you have to see SICKO. And I am not > saying I totally agree > > with , but man, it opens your eyes. > We are slaves in this > > country. > > > > Blessings, > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them > fast with Search. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2008 Report Share Posted February 2, 2008 Roni, I don't know if one can equate Bush with Fidel. Please don't believe the propaganda the U.S. media perpetrates. The only way to really see how much Fidel is beloved in Cuba is to go see for yourself - which is exactly why the U.S. has made it illegal for us to see for ourselves. Fidel, for all the controversy, has served Cubans well, especially in the all-important areas of healthcare, education, and poverty. Bush, on the other hand, is responsible for the the deaths of thousands upon thousands of innocent people in Iraq - the list of his atrocities both home and abroad would take hundreds of emails. No comparison at all. --- Roni Molin <matchermaam@...> wrote: > I was not referring to Cuba. I have never been > there, but I know before the trouble between the two > countries thousands of Americans used to vacation > there and loved it. Once the current dictators in > both countries are gone there will be an opportunity > for the countries to become friends again. > > Roni > > Silver <susanjsilver@...> wrote: > > I can't speak for Mexico, but I lived in Cuba for > two > years and had first-hand experience of their medical > system. Nowhere else (and I've spent time in over a > dozen countries) have I found more accessible, > professional, approachable doctors, who were > actually > friendly and explained everything. The arrogance and > attitudes that run rampant among doctors in the > states > was completely absent in my experience with Cuban > doctors. Every few blocks had a doctor on call who > made house calls in the middle of the night and, of > course, it all was free. Chuck is right, our current > situation follows the logic of our economic system, > which makes one wonder if our economic system really > is the best one out there... > > > > --- Roni Molin <matchermaam@...> wrote: > > > Great idea . I wonder how much financial aid > we > > would get as soon as we get there. I > > wonder if we'll be able to drive, even if we can't > > read the road signs. I wonder how good the free > > medical care will be, and I wonder how much we > will > > like our free or subsidized housing. > > I'm sure all the children will love their free > > educations too. > > > > Roni > > > > <res075oh@...> wrote: > > Once I find that someone's preferred modis > > operandi is to lie and spin > > and then lie and spin some more I have no interest > > in what he says. > > Anything by M. is on my list of " do not > > bother " . > > > > I guess if things get bad enough we can all swim > > across the Rio Grande > > and become illegal immigrants in Mexico! [ggg] > > > > > > > > > Re: Doctors' bills > > > > > > <hypothyroidism/message/36315;_ylc=X3oDMTJxbGw3MjJ\ qBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMzYzMTUEc2V\ jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTIwMTk0ODU4NQ--> > > > > > > > > > > > > Posted by: " and Irwin " > > familyirwin@... > > > > > > <mailto:familyirwin@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Doctors%27%20bills> > > > fritzalseth > > <fritzalseth> > > > > > > > > > Fri Feb 1, 2008 4:27 pm (PST) > > > > > > Yes, I couldn't agree more. It is a control > thing. > > Keep the poor > > > poorer, and let the rich have it all. See, most > > college students are > > > in so much debt, that they need a good job to > pay > > off debts (debts > > > that can never be erased)...so it will keep > people > > working to pay > > > their debts, and they will be good workers > because > > they are in so much > > > debt. Then, you have the people who have > > mortgages, and they have to > > > work, so they don't lose their house, and then > you > > have the health > > > insurance, Oh you have to have insurance, or you > > will be broke if > > > something bad happens. WE PAY ALMOST $800 a > month > > for CRAPPY > > > insurance. But we have to have it. See, it is a > > total joke! PLEASE > > > EVERYONE, you have to see SICKO. And I am not > > saying I totally agree > > > with , but man, it opens your eyes. > > We are slaves in this > > > country. > > > > > > Blessings, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them > > fast with Search. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them > fast with Search. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2008 Report Share Posted February 2, 2008 Nowhere was I comparing the deeds of the two. I don't know anything first hand about Fidel, of course, but if he is such a benevelent leader, why have so many thousands of Cubans fled that country and come here to the U.S.? I was only putting forth the hope that someday Cuba and the United States could be friends again. To what do you object in that? Roni Silver <susanjsilver@...> wrote: Roni, I don't know if one can equate Bush with Fidel. Please don't believe the propaganda the U.S. media perpetrates. The only way to really see how much Fidel is beloved in Cuba is to go see for yourself - which is exactly why the U.S. has made it illegal for us to see for ourselves. Fidel, for all the controversy, has served Cubans well, especially in the all-important areas of healthcare, education, and poverty. Bush, on the other hand, is responsible for the the deaths of thousands upon thousands of innocent people in Iraq - the list of his atrocities both home and abroad would take hundreds of emails. No comparison at all. --- Roni Molin <matchermaam@...> wrote: > I was not referring to Cuba. I have never been > there, but I know before the trouble between the two > countries thousands of Americans used to vacation > there and loved it. Once the current dictators in > both countries are gone there will be an opportunity > for the countries to become friends again. > > Roni > > Silver <susanjsilver@...> wrote: > > I can't speak for Mexico, but I lived in Cuba for > two > years and had first-hand experience of their medical > system. Nowhere else (and I've spent time in over a > dozen countries) have I found more accessible, > professional, approachable doctors, who were > actually > friendly and explained everything. The arrogance and > attitudes that run rampant among doctors in the > states > was completely absent in my experience with Cuban > doctors. Every few blocks had a doctor on call who > made house calls in the middle of the night and, of > course, it all was free. Chuck is right, our current > situation follows the logic of our economic system, > which makes one wonder if our economic system really > is the best one out there... > > > > --- Roni Molin <matchermaam@...> wrote: > > > Great idea . I wonder how much financial aid > we > > would get as soon as we get there. I > > wonder if we'll be able to drive, even if we can't > > read the road signs. I wonder how good the free > > medical care will be, and I wonder how much we > will > > like our free or subsidized housing. > > I'm sure all the children will love their free > > educations too. > > > > Roni > > > > <res075oh@...> wrote: > > Once I find that someone's preferred modis > > operandi is to lie and spin > > and then lie and spin some more I have no interest > > in what he says. > > Anything by M. is on my list of " do not > > bother " . > > > > I guess if things get bad enough we can all swim > > across the Rio Grande > > and become illegal immigrants in Mexico! [ggg] > > > > > > > > > Re: Doctors' bills > > > > > > <hypothyroidism/message/36315;_ylc=X3oDMTJxbGw3MjJ\ qBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMzYzMTUEc2V\ jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTIwMTk0ODU4NQ--> > > > > > > > > > > > > Posted by: " and Irwin " > > familyirwin@... > > > > > > <mailto:familyirwin@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Doctors%27%20bills> > > > fritzalseth > > <fritzalseth> > > > > > > > > > Fri Feb 1, 2008 4:27 pm (PST) > > > > > > Yes, I couldn't agree more. It is a control > thing. > > Keep the poor > > > poorer, and let the rich have it all. See, most > > college students are > > > in so much debt, that they need a good job to > pay > > off debts (debts > > > that can never be erased)...so it will keep > people > > working to pay > > > their debts, and they will be good workers > because > > they are in so much > > > debt. Then, you have the people who have > > mortgages, and they have to > > > work, so they don't lose their house, and then > you > > have the health > > > insurance, Oh you have to have insurance, or you > > will be broke if > > > something bad happens. WE PAY ALMOST $800 a > month > > for CRAPPY > > > insurance. But we have to have it. See, it is a > > total joke! PLEASE > > > EVERYONE, you have to see SICKO. And I am not > > saying I totally agree > > > with , but man, it opens your eyes. > > We are slaves in this > > > country. > > > > > > Blessings, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them > > fast with Search. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them > fast with Search. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make your homepage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2008 Report Share Posted February 2, 2008 Nothing at all. Except that the U.S. has never been " friendly " to Cuba (or any Latin American country) ever, even before any revolutions. But the history of the relationship between Latin America to the U.S. is probably too far off the topic of hypothyroidism to continue here. I've devoted much of my life to this topic, and so it just upsets me when I hear blanket statements about Fidel. Perhaps you didn't mean to group him with Bush - I apologize if I misunderstood. You ask an important question that has a complicated answer, but the main reason by far that Cubans leave Cuba is that the economic blockade imposed by the U.S. (and denounced internationally according to UN votes) to deprive Cuban citizens of medicine, medical supplies, and food, along with much else, has made life extremely difficult for people to live there. Cuba, is not rich in a variety of natural resources, and needs to trade to survive. Our laws blocking that are strangling people there. But, again, a very complicated issue, and not very appropriate for this list. Sorry everyone. I'll stop now. --- Roni Molin <matchermaam@...> wrote: > Nowhere was I comparing the deeds of the two. I > don't know anything first hand about Fidel, of > course, but if he is such a benevelent leader, why > have so many thousands of Cubans fled that country > and come here to the U.S.? I was only putting forth > the hope that someday Cuba and the United States > could be friends again. To what do you object in > that? > > Roni > > Silver <susanjsilver@...> wrote: > Roni, > > I don't know if one can equate Bush with Fidel. > Please > don't believe the propaganda the U.S. media > perpetrates. The only way to really see how much > Fidel > is beloved in Cuba is to go see for yourself - which > is exactly why the U.S. has made it illegal for us > to > see for ourselves. Fidel, for all the controversy, > has > served Cubans well, especially in the all-important > areas of healthcare, education, and poverty. Bush, > on > the other hand, is responsible for the the deaths of > thousands upon thousands of innocent people in Iraq > - > the list of his atrocities both home and abroad > would > take hundreds of emails. No comparison at all. > > > > --- Roni Molin <matchermaam@...> wrote: > > > I was not referring to Cuba. I have never been > > there, but I know before the trouble between the > two > > countries thousands of Americans used to vacation > > there and loved it. Once the current dictators in > > both countries are gone there will be an > opportunity > > for the countries to become friends again. > > > > Roni > > > > Silver <susanjsilver@...> wrote: > > > > I can't speak for Mexico, but I lived in Cuba for > > two > > years and had first-hand experience of their > medical > > system. Nowhere else (and I've spent time in over > a > > dozen countries) have I found more accessible, > > professional, approachable doctors, who were > > actually > > friendly and explained everything. The arrogance > and > > attitudes that run rampant among doctors in the > > states > > was completely absent in my experience with Cuban > > doctors. Every few blocks had a doctor on call who > > made house calls in the middle of the night and, > of > > course, it all was free. Chuck is right, our > current > > situation follows the logic of our economic > system, > > which makes one wonder if our economic system > really > > is the best one out there... > > > > > > > > --- Roni Molin <matchermaam@...> wrote: > > > > > Great idea . I wonder how much financial > aid > > we > > > would get as soon as we get there. I > > > wonder if we'll be able to drive, even if we > can't > > > read the road signs. I wonder how good the free > > > medical care will be, and I wonder how much we > > will > > > like our free or subsidized housing. > > > I'm sure all the children will love their free > > > educations too. > > > > > > Roni > > > > > > <res075oh@...> wrote: > > > Once I find that someone's preferred modis > > > operandi is to lie and spin > > > and then lie and spin some more I have no > interest > > > in what he says. > > > Anything by M. is on my list of " do not > > > bother " . > > > > > > I guess if things get bad enough we can all swim > > > across the Rio Grande > > > and become illegal immigrants in Mexico! [ggg] > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Doctors' bills > > > > > > > > > > <hypothyroidism/message/36315;_ylc=X3oDMTJxbGw3MjJ\ qBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMzYzMTUEc2V\ jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTIwMTk0ODU4NQ--> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Posted by: " and Irwin " > > > familyirwin@... > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:familyirwin@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Doctors%27%20bills> > > > > fritzalseth > > > <fritzalseth> > > > > > > > > > > > > Fri Feb 1, 2008 4:27 pm (PST) > > > > > > > > Yes, I couldn't agree more. It is a control > > thing. > > > Keep the poor > > > > poorer, and let the rich have it all. See, > most > > > college students are > > > > in so much debt, that they need a good job to > > pay > > > off debts (debts > > > > that can never be erased)...so it will keep > > people > > > working to pay > > > > their debts, and they will be good workers > > because > > > they are in so much > > > > debt. Then, you have the people who have > > > mortgages, and they have to > > > > work, so they don't lose their house, and then > > you > > > have the health > > > > insurance, Oh you have to have insurance, or > you > > > will be broke if > > > > something bad happens. WE PAY ALMOST $800 a > > month > > > for CRAPPY > > > > insurance. But we have to have it. See, it is > a > > > total joke! PLEASE > > > > EVERYONE, you have to see SICKO. And I am not > > > saying I totally agree > > > > with , but man, it opens your > eyes. > > > We are slaves in this > > > > country. > > > > > > > > Blessings, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find > them > > > fast with Search. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them > > fast with Search. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2008 Report Share Posted February 2, 2008 , You wrote: > > I don't know if one can equate Bush with Fidel.... Please. The WHO, not the U.S. media, reports that Cuba has the highest suicide rate in the western hemisphere. It also has the highest doctor/patient ratio (about 1/175), but that is partly a holdover from the years that the medical system there was subsidized by the Soviet Union to make it a showcase, and partly because the Cuban government has continued to make health care a top priority. However, doctors there receive only the equivalent of about $15 per month for practicing medicine, so most of them earn a living in other occupations and practice medicine part time. Even the BBC has covered the rather high rate of defections to other countries by Cuban doctors. The often praised low infant death rate may be related to the very high abortion rate, which is particularly targeted at high risk pregnancies. The U.N. further cites poor facilities, especially buildings in poor state of repair and mostly outdated, poor provision of equipment, absence of essential drugs (mostly due to the ongoing embargo), and complaints about freedom of choice both for patient and doctor. The amazingly low incidence of HIV may be due to the fact that until about a decade ago, anyone testing positive was forcibly removed to Los Cocos. Both testing and vaccinations in general are compulsory. You are correct. There is no comparison. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2008 Report Share Posted February 2, 2008 Like I said, this is not the forum for political discussions, and doing so alienates those who are searching for answers for hypothyroidism. If anyone wants to learn more about Cuba, go there yourself. Don't believe everything that you read. --- Chuck B <gumboyaya@...> wrote: > , > > You wrote: > > > > I don't know if one can equate Bush with Fidel.... > > Please. The WHO, not the U.S. media, reports that > Cuba has the highest > suicide rate in the western hemisphere. It also has > the highest > doctor/patient ratio (about 1/175), but that is > partly a holdover from > the years that the medical system there was > subsidized by the Soviet > Union to make it a showcase, and partly because the > Cuban government has > continued to make health care a top priority. > > However, doctors there receive only the equivalent > of about $15 per > month for practicing medicine, so most of them earn > a living in other > occupations and practice medicine part time. Even > the BBC has covered > the rather high rate of defections to other > countries by Cuban doctors. > > The often praised low infant death rate may be > related to the very high > abortion rate, which is particularly targeted at > high risk pregnancies. > The U.N. further cites poor facilities, especially > buildings in poor > state of repair and mostly outdated, poor provision > of equipment, > absence of essential drugs (mostly due to the > ongoing embargo), and > complaints about freedom of choice both for patient > and doctor. > > The amazingly low incidence of HIV may be due to the > fact that until > about a decade ago, anyone testing positive was > forcibly removed to Los > Cocos. Both testing and vaccinations in general are > compulsory. > > You are correct. There is no comparison. > > Chuck > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2008 Report Share Posted February 2, 2008 Actually, I am arranging my life to move down there permanently. After two years there, I am personally convinced that in the important social and cultural issues, it is a better place to live, at least for me. But please, as I've said twice now, this is not a political forum. I am trying to avoid those endless arguments that this group seems to love, where everyone is more interested in proving their own point than in actually learning from a different point of view. If you all would rather base your opinion on statistics than on real-life experience, then it is your choice. But I am now opting to leave this topic. Good-bye (until my next hypothyroidism question), --- Roni Molin <matchermaam@...> wrote: > If you think it is so terrific, you go there. > Roni > > Silver <susanjsilver@...> wrote: > Like I said, this is not the forum for > political > discussions, and doing so alienates those who are > searching for answers for hypothyroidism. If anyone > wants to learn more about Cuba, go there yourself. > Don't believe everything that you read. > > > > --- Chuck B <gumboyaya@...> wrote: > > > , > > > > You wrote: > > > > > > I don't know if one can equate Bush with > Fidel.... > > > > Please. The WHO, not the U.S. media, reports that > > Cuba has the highest > > suicide rate in the western hemisphere. It also > has > > the highest > > doctor/patient ratio (about 1/175), but that is > > partly a holdover from > > the years that the medical system there was > > subsidized by the Soviet > > Union to make it a showcase, and partly because > the > > Cuban government has > > continued to make health care a top priority. > > > > However, doctors there receive only the equivalent > > of about $15 per > > month for practicing medicine, so most of them > earn > > a living in other > > occupations and practice medicine part time. Even > > the BBC has covered > > the rather high rate of defections to other > > countries by Cuban doctors. > > > > The often praised low infant death rate may be > > related to the very high > > abortion rate, which is particularly targeted at > > high risk pregnancies. > > The U.N. further cites poor facilities, especially > > buildings in poor > > state of repair and mostly outdated, poor > provision > > of equipment, > > absence of essential drugs (mostly due to the > > ongoing embargo), and > > complaints about freedom of choice both for > patient > > and doctor. > > > > The amazingly low incidence of HIV may be due to > the > > fact that until > > about a decade ago, anyone testing positive was > > forcibly removed to Los > > Cocos. Both testing and vaccinations in general > are > > compulsory. > > > > You are correct. There is no comparison. > > > > Chuck > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Never miss a thing. Make your homepage. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2008 Report Share Posted February 2, 2008 You denegrate this country and this list, yet here you are taking advantage of both. I think you are ungracious and ungrateful and it will be a good day when and if you actually leave. Roni Silver <susanjsilver@...> wrote: Actually, I am arranging my life to move down there permanently. After two years there, I am personally convinced that in the important social and cultural issues, it is a better place to live, at least for me. But please, as I've said twice now, this is not a political forum. I am trying to avoid those endless arguments that this group seems to love, where everyone is more interested in proving their own point than in actually learning from a different point of view. If you all would rather base your opinion on statistics than on real-life experience, then it is your choice. But I am now opting to leave this topic. Good-bye (until my next hypothyroidism question), --- Roni Molin <matchermaam@...> wrote: > If you think it is so terrific, you go there. > Roni > > Silver <susanjsilver@...> wrote: > Like I said, this is not the forum for > political > discussions, and doing so alienates those who are > searching for answers for hypothyroidism. If anyone > wants to learn more about Cuba, go there yourself. > Don't believe everything that you read. > > > > --- Chuck B <gumboyaya@...> wrote: > > > , > > > > You wrote: > > > > > > I don't know if one can equate Bush with > Fidel.... > > > > Please. The WHO, not the U.S. media, reports that > > Cuba has the highest > > suicide rate in the western hemisphere. It also > has > > the highest > > doctor/patient ratio (about 1/175), but that is > > partly a holdover from > > the years that the medical system there was > > subsidized by the Soviet > > Union to make it a showcase, and partly because > the > > Cuban government has > > continued to make health care a top priority. > > > > However, doctors there receive only the equivalent > > of about $15 per > > month for practicing medicine, so most of them > earn > > a living in other > > occupations and practice medicine part time. Even > > the BBC has covered > > the rather high rate of defections to other > > countries by Cuban doctors. > > > > The often praised low infant death rate may be > > related to the very high > > abortion rate, which is particularly targeted at > > high risk pregnancies. > > The U.N. further cites poor facilities, especially > > buildings in poor > > state of repair and mostly outdated, poor > provision > > of equipment, > > absence of essential drugs (mostly due to the > > ongoing embargo), and > > complaints about freedom of choice both for > patient > > and doctor. > > > > The amazingly low incidence of HIV may be due to > the > > fact that until > > about a decade ago, anyone testing positive was > > forcibly removed to Los > > Cocos. Both testing and vaccinations in general > are > > compulsory. > > > > You are correct. There is no comparison. > > > > Chuck > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Never miss a thing. Make your homepage. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2008 Report Share Posted February 2, 2008 I just hope that if we don't agree, we can all agree to disagree. I personally love my country, but I know that our country is not perfect. We have not been perfect in foregin affairs, the welfare of others, and the blessing in all of this, is that we are free to speak our mind. There could however, come a time, where absolute power corrupts absolutely. Clearly, there is a flaw in our medical system. We have given up rights for " safety " and this is a problem. I hope we can all try to love one another despite our differences. I appreciate all of your perspectives, and I learn for all of you. I hope that we can be kind to one another and allow the various opinions to be expressed, even if we don't always agree. It makes this board something real, if you ask me. Now back to the thyroid topic, yes, I am very saddened that our medical system is not what it should be. I do think we should all have access to care, if we want/need it, and not be in debt for the rest of our lives. Too sad. Just my two cents, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2008 Report Share Posted February 2, 2008 Well, as a wise old man once told me, " The day's wasted if you don't catch some hell! " Take care of yourself, Roni. I wish you the best. --- Roni Molin <matchermaam@...> wrote: > You denegrate this country and this list, yet here > you are taking advantage of both. > > I think you are ungracious and ungrateful and it > will be a good day when and if you > > actually leave. > > Roni > > Silver <susanjsilver@...> wrote: > > Actually, I am arranging my life to move down there > permanently. After two years there, I am personally > convinced that in the important social and cultural > issues, it is a better place to live, at least for > me. > But please, as I've said twice now, this is not a > political forum. I am trying to avoid those endless > arguments that this group seems to love, where > everyone is more interested in proving their own > point > than in actually learning from a different point of > view. If you all would rather base your opinion on > statistics than on real-life experience, then it is > your choice. But I am now opting to leave this > topic. > > Good-bye (until my next hypothyroidism question), > > > --- Roni Molin <matchermaam@...> wrote: > > > If you think it is so terrific, you go there. > > Roni > > > > Silver <susanjsilver@...> wrote: > > Like I said, this is not the forum for > > political > > discussions, and doing so alienates those who are > > searching for answers for hypothyroidism. If > anyone > > wants to learn more about Cuba, go there yourself. > > Don't believe everything that you read. > > > > > > > > --- Chuck B <gumboyaya@...> wrote: > > > > > , > > > > > > You wrote: > > > > > > > > I don't know if one can equate Bush with > > Fidel.... > > > > > > Please. The WHO, not the U.S. media, reports > that > > > Cuba has the highest > > > suicide rate in the western hemisphere. It also > > has > > > the highest > > > doctor/patient ratio (about 1/175), but that is > > > partly a holdover from > > > the years that the medical system there was > > > subsidized by the Soviet > > > Union to make it a showcase, and partly because > > the > > > Cuban government has > > > continued to make health care a top priority. > > > > > > However, doctors there receive only the > equivalent > > > of about $15 per > > > month for practicing medicine, so most of them > > earn > > > a living in other > > > occupations and practice medicine part time. > Even > > > the BBC has covered > > > the rather high rate of defections to other > > > countries by Cuban doctors. > > > > > > The often praised low infant death rate may be > > > related to the very high > > > abortion rate, which is particularly targeted at > > > high risk pregnancies. > > > The U.N. further cites poor facilities, > especially > > > buildings in poor > > > state of repair and mostly outdated, poor > > provision > > > of equipment, > > > absence of essential drugs (mostly due to the > > > ongoing embargo), and > > > complaints about freedom of choice both for > > patient > > > and doctor. > > > > > > The amazingly low incidence of HIV may be due to > > the > > > fact that until > > > about a decade ago, anyone testing positive was > > > forcibly removed to Los > > > Cocos. Both testing and vaccinations in general > > are > > > compulsory. > > > > > > You are correct. There is no comparison. > > > > > > Chuck > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Never miss a thing. Make your homepage. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them > fast with Search. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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