Re: Re: Why do I have aches and pains?

[Guest guest]

Hi Roni,

Actually I already switched to an PPO. I was holding up my personal HMO

experiences as an example as what I would expect under a govt universal

health care model.

made a excellent point about half a hour ago " For the way a federal

healthcare system would probably work just look at

Walter . "

A most excellent example of your govt in action. I would rather pay out of

pocket.

Neil

_____

From: hypothyroidism [mailto:hypothyroidism ]

On Behalf Of Roni Molin

Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 9:24 AM

hypothyroidism

Subject: RE: Re: Why do I have aches and pains?

HMOs are strictly For Profit organizations, and their

bottom line is their medical criteria. Being in an HMO

automatically limits your care. If you can, I would

advise switching to a PPO or Fee For Service health

care plan. If you are over 65 the Medicare Supplement

is probably your best bet.

Roni

--- neil <HYPERLINK " mailto:neilneil%40adelphia.net " neilneiladelphia (DOT) -net>

wrote:

> Hi ,

>

> I'm honestly not sure what the answer is. But I know

> big Govt. screws up

> everything they touch, so that can't possibly be the

> answer. I don't want

> the same morons that run the DMV, social security,

> etc, running health care!

>

> Up until a few years ago I never had really been

> sick so I never had much

> contact with doctor's for anything other than a

> routine physical. I had paid

> into Kaiser for over a decade and only used it a

> handful of times. I figured

> that Kaiser must have good doctors, they graduated

> from big name medical

> schools, right? But then over a year or so suddenly

> I didn't feel well, and

> I assumed that Kaiser would quickly figure out what

> was wrong with me. I

> couldn't have been more wrong, or more surprised in

> what happened next.

> After about 30 or 40 doctor visits they never could

> figure out what was

> wrong, mostly because they never would run proper

> tests or really any tests

> at all. Finally I switched insurance companies at

> the next open enrollment

> out of complete desperation, my situation and

> symptoms were getting worse.

> The new doctors at the other HMO immediately found I

> had one 100% blockage

> (RCA artery) and one 85% blockage (LAD artery, the

> " widow maker artery " ). I

> must have had a silent heart attack, for I now have

> some degree of heart

> damage and permanent changes on my EKG that could

> have been prevented if

> Kaiser had run proper tests and cleared the blockage

> quickly with stents.

> From what I understand citizens in Canada and

> England have problems with

> their " universal care " as well, operations are

> postponed often until the

> patient dies, diagnosis spotty, and people in these

> countries that have the

> financial means come to the United States seeking

> medical treatment from

> private specialists.

>

> Anyway, the only doctors I have been completely and

> totally satisfied were

> outside doctors I paid out of my own pocket. They

> are the only ones that

> don't dismiss me, the patient, after a short 5

> minute visit, run tests,

> listen to me...the patient that writes the check and

> is their employer.

> Private doctors are able to adjust hormone levels of

> thyroid, adrenal, and

> testosterone to OPTIMAL levels, not the broad levels

> that HMO's and

> universal care systems use....HMO's for example use

> such broad levels of

> thyroid that only the most critically ill are

> diagnosed with hypothyroidism

> or any disease or condition. My HMO endo told me

> that my TSH of over 3 and

> symptoms of fatigue, lightheadedness , etc must mean

> I was " depressed " and

> that I needed Prozac because her testing showed I

> was fine. In further

> testing though, completely on my own and at

> considerable expense, I have

> found out that my adrenal cortisol levels are almost

> undetectable over most

> of the day. Indeed I am not only hypothyroid, I'm

> borderline 's, and

> that I have the testosterone of a 90 year old man as

> well. Of course she

> never checked for any of that.

>

> I am now getting the treatment that I need, and am

> getting all my hormones

> adjusted to OPTIMAL levels, not the broad levels the

> HMO dictates that only

> show the grossest disease of people near death. So

> in system where the

> doctor is the " gatekeeper " like England and Canada

> have, how EXACTLY would I

> be better off???

>

> Neil

>

> _____

>

> From: HYPERLINK

" mailto:hypothyroidism%40 " hypothyroidism@-groups.-com

> [mailto:HYPERLINK

" mailto:hypothyroidism%40 " hypothyroidism@-groups.-com]

> On Behalf Of HYPERLINK

" mailto:bear339%40aol.com " bear339@-aol.com

> Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 1:28 PM

> HYPERLINK

" mailto:hypothyroidism%40 " hypothyroidism@-groups.-com

> Subject: Re: Re: Why do I have

> aches and pains?

>

>

>

> Neil,

> So if I'm understanding what you're saying, do you

> agree with more of a free

>

> market, libertarian kind of healthcare system? Like

> competitive prices and

> therefore cheaper? And therefore much lower taxes

> ... and when a person gets

> sick

> they just shop around for themselves? If not, what

> do you propose as a

> better

> method than what's already been mentioned? Sorry, to

> ask political questions

>

> guys.

>

>

>

> Neil, you said:

>

> Of course Kaiser is not EXACTLY the same as

> universal health care. I held up

> Kaiser though as an example as a huge, bloated

> organization employing

> thousands of doctors. And just like you would get in

> a universal health care

> system, the doctor is the gatekeeper. That is key.

>

> Universal health care would be a disaster, just like

> HMO's are.

>

> It's simply magical when you go outside of these

> bloated health care systems

> (yes, Canadian's and British citizens do this and

> they have universal care),

> private doctors are responsive, run proper tests,

> are personable,

> open-minded, etc. That's because doctors, wherever

> they work, never forget

> who is paying them! When you go private you are

> paying the doctor directly.

> In universal health care and HMO care, the doctor

> views the patient as an

> inconvenience.

>

> Your dream of fair universal health care is a

> fantasy. The reality is that

> you will end up paying far more in taxes for crummy

> care, and then have to

> pay more out of pocket for an excellent private

> doctor. Or just keep on self

> treating like most of us are doing already, while

> the inevitable increase in

> taxes universal health care requires.

>

> Or did you think we were getting something for

> nothing???

>

> Neil

>

> ************--********-*-*******-**-******-** See what's

> free at HYPERLINK

> " HYPERLINK " http://www.aol.com. " http://www.aol.-com. " HYPERLINK

" http://www.aol.-com. " http://www.aol.--com.

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>

>

>

>

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11:54 PM

[Guest guest]

you are confusing standard of care with health care access.

Actually VA/Medicare is excellent but bloated and expensive b/c it is based on

big pharma standard of care.

my mother gets all her health care costs paid for and easily 2 million $$$ has

been spent on her, I am not kidding. All this $$ spent to keep her extremely

ill. She needs a different kind of health care (hormones, iodine, Armour) but

these treatment modalities are completely foreign to her docs.

She has all the health care $$ can buy, but the standard of care is so poor,

it only benefits big pharma.

I wonder how any doc could think that adding drug after drug for each symptom

is appropriate?

Guvmint is not the enemy, ignorance and greed are the enemies.

Gracia

Hi Roni,

Actually I already switched to an PPO. I was holding up my personal HMO

experiences as an example as what I would expect under a govt universal

health care model.

made a excellent point about half a hour ago " For the way a federal

healthcare system would probably work just look at

Walter . "

A most excellent example of your govt in action. I would rather pay out of

pocket.

Neil

_____

Recent Activity

a.. 4New Members

Visit Your Group

[Guest guest]

I have great insurance, Anthem/Blue Cross, but it refuses to pay for HGH,

something I definately need. So I am going broke trying to afford it. They are

refusing to pay b/c they are only interested in their profits.

Gracia

HMOs are strictly For Profit organizations, and their

bottom line is their medical criteria. Being in an HMO

automatically limits your care. If you can, I would

advise switching to a PPO or Fee For Service health

care plan. If you are over 65 the Medicare Supplement

is probably your best bet.

Roni

Recent Activity

a.. 4New Members

Visit Your Group

[Guest guest]

Neil-

I understand what you are saying completely ... I am sorry your struggle for

even decent care was so hard ... I have had my share of that as well. I was

never meaning to say that you'd be better off with a system like in England or

Canada, I was just curious about your ideas. However, you say you went to

great lengths and paid A LOT of money to get good health care, that is great for

you, but what about the rest of us who don't even have that option? I was

diagnosed with a pretty severe case of Hashi's about 8 months ago when I was 18

years old (now 19). Both me and my family have no money and I pay for everything

(school, rent, etc. myself). We have bluecross blueshield and when I turn 23 I

won't have any healthcare despite my full-time school status. I try not to

worry about it but I don't know what the heck I'm going to do ... that is one

of the many reasons I b*tch about this country's healthcare ... it's about time

someone comes up with a great plan ;-)

Hi ,

I'm honestly not sure what the answer is. But I know big Govt. screws up

everything they touch, so that can't possibly be the answer. I don't want

the same morons that run the DMV, social security, etc, running health care!

Up until a few years ago I never had really been sick so I never had much

contact with doctor's for anything other than a routine physical. I had paid

into Kaiser for over a decade and only used it a handful of times. I figured

that Kaiser must have good doctors, they graduated from big name medical

schools, right? But then over a year or so suddenly I didn't feel well, and

I assumed that Kaiser would quickly figure out what was wrong with me. I

couldn't have been more wrong, or more surprised in what happened next.

After about 30 or 40 doctor visits they never could figure out what was

wrong, mostly because they never would run proper tests or really any tests

at all. Finally I switched insurance companies at the next open enrollment

out of complete desperation, my situation and symptoms were getting worse.

The new doctors at the other HMO immediately found I had one 100% blockage

(RCA artery) and one 85% blockage (LAD artery, the " widow maker artery " ). I

must have had a silent heart attack, for I now have some degree of heart

damage and permanent changes on my EKG that could have been prevented if

Kaiser had run proper tests and cleared the blockage quickly with stents.

From what I understand citizens in Canada and England have problems with

their " universal care " as well, operations are postponed often until the

patient dies, diagnosis spotty, and people in these countries that have the

financial means come to the United States seeking medical treatment from

private specialists.

Anyway, the only doctors I have been completely and totally satisfied were

outside doctors I paid out of my own pocket. They are the only ones that

don't dismiss me, the patient, after a short 5 minute visit, run tests,

listen to me...the patient that writes the check and is their employer.

Private doctors are able to adjust hormone levels of thyroid, adrenal, and

testosterone to OPTIMAL levels, not the broad levels that HMO's and

universal care systems use....HMO's for example use such broad levels of

thyroid that only the most critically ill are diagnosed with hypothyroidism

or any disease or condition. My HMO endo told me that my TSH of over 3 and

symptoms of fatigue, lightheadedness , etc must mean I was " depressed " and

that I needed Prozac because her testing showed I was fine. In further

testing though, completely on my own and at considerable expense, I have

found out that my adrenal cortisol levels are almost undetectable over most

of the day. Indeed I am not only hypothyroid, I'm borderline 's, and

that I have the testosterone of a 90 year old man as well. Of course she

never checked for any of that.

I am now getting the treatment that I need, and am getting all my hormones

adjusted to OPTIMAL levels, not the broad levels the HMO dictates that only

show the grossest disease of people near death. So in system where the

doctor is the " gatekeeper " like England and Canada have, how EXACTLY would I

be better off???

Neil

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

[Guest guest]

I agree. I actually think that instead of universal

healthcare, the insurance companies should be pooled,

and all Americans should have healthcare, and the

insurance companies should not be able to pick and

choose. I also think that each person should be able

to use the doctor of his or her choice, and the method

of care agreed upon by the patient and doctor. I don't

feel the insurance companies should have any say in

that at all. If everybody is covered they shouldn't

have to vie for customer. Their profit margins should

also be controlled. Instead of people being

controlled, control the insurance companies, reduce

the amount they charge doctors for insurance, actually

get rid of bad doctors, force hospitals to maintain

high quality of personnel and care, and close them if

they don't or fine them per day, whichever works best

for the patients. The focus today is unfortunately not

for the people, where it should be.

Roni

--- neil <neilneil@...> wrote:

> Hi Roni,

>

> Actually I already switched to an PPO. I was holding

> up my personal HMO

> experiences as an example as what I would expect

> under a govt universal

> health care model.

>

> made a excellent point about half a hour ago

> " For the way a federal

> healthcare system would probably work just look at

> Walter . "

>

> A most excellent example of your govt in action. I

> would rather pay out of

> pocket.

>

> Neil

>

>

>

> _____

>

> From: hypothyroidism

> [mailto:hypothyroidism ]

> On Behalf Of Roni Molin

> Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 9:24 AM

> hypothyroidism

> Subject: RE: Re: Why do I have

> aches and pains?

>

>

>

> HMOs are strictly For Profit organizations, and

> their

> bottom line is their medical criteria. Being in an

> HMO

> automatically limits your care. If you can, I would

> advise switching to a PPO or Fee For Service health

> care plan. If you are over 65 the Medicare

> Supplement

> is probably your best bet.

>

> Roni

>

> --- neil <HYPERLINK

>

" mailto:neilneil%40adelphia.net " neilneiladelphia (DOT) -net>

> wrote:

>

> > Hi ,

> >

> > I'm honestly not sure what the answer is. But I

> know

> > big Govt. screws up

> > everything they touch, so that can't possibly be

> the

> > answer. I don't want

> > the same morons that run the DMV, social security,

> > etc, running health care!

> >

> > Up until a few years ago I never had really been

> > sick so I never had much

> > contact with doctor's for anything other than a

> > routine physical. I had paid

> > into Kaiser for over a decade and only used it a

> > handful of times. I figured

> > that Kaiser must have good doctors, they graduated

> > from big name medical

> > schools, right? But then over a year or so

> suddenly

> > I didn't feel well, and

> > I assumed that Kaiser would quickly figure out

> what

> > was wrong with me. I

> > couldn't have been more wrong, or more surprised

> in

> > what happened next.

> > After about 30 or 40 doctor visits they never

> could

> > figure out what was

> > wrong, mostly because they never would run proper

> > tests or really any tests

> > at all. Finally I switched insurance companies at

> > the next open enrollment

> > out of complete desperation, my situation and

> > symptoms were getting worse.

> > The new doctors at the other HMO immediately found

> I

> > had one 100% blockage

> > (RCA artery) and one 85% blockage (LAD artery, the

> > " widow maker artery " ). I

> > must have had a silent heart attack, for I now

> have

> > some degree of heart

> > damage and permanent changes on my EKG that could

> > have been prevented if

> > Kaiser had run proper tests and cleared the

> blockage

> > quickly with stents.

> > From what I understand citizens in Canada and

> > England have problems with

> > their " universal care " as well, operations are

> > postponed often until the

> > patient dies, diagnosis spotty, and people in

> these

> > countries that have the

> > financial means come to the United States seeking

> > medical treatment from

> > private specialists.

> >

> > Anyway, the only doctors I have been completely

> and

> > totally satisfied were

> > outside doctors I paid out of my own pocket. They

> > are the only ones that

> > don't dismiss me, the patient, after a short 5

> > minute visit, run tests,

> > listen to me...the patient that writes the check

> and

> > is their employer.

> > Private doctors are able to adjust hormone levels

> of

> > thyroid, adrenal, and

> > testosterone to OPTIMAL levels, not the broad

> levels

> > that HMO's and

> > universal care systems use....HMO's for example

> use

> > such broad levels of

> > thyroid that only the most critically ill are

> > diagnosed with hypothyroidism

> > or any disease or condition. My HMO endo told me

> > that my TSH of over 3 and

> > symptoms of fatigue, lightheadedness , etc must

> mean

> > I was " depressed " and

> > that I needed Prozac because her testing showed I

> > was fine. In further

> > testing though, completely on my own and at

> > considerable expense, I have

> > found out that my adrenal cortisol levels are

> almost

> > undetectable over most

> > of the day. Indeed I am not only hypothyroid, I'm

> > borderline 's, and

> > that I have the testosterone of a 90 year old man

> as

> > well. Of course she

> > never checked for any of that.

> >

> > I am now getting the treatment that I need, and am

> > getting all my hormones

> > adjusted to OPTIMAL levels, not the broad levels

> the

> > HMO dictates that only

> > show the grossest disease of people near death. So

> > in system where the

> > doctor is the " gatekeeper " like England and Canada

> > have, how EXACTLY would I

> > be better off???

> >

> > Neil

> >

> > _____

> >

> > From: HYPERLINK

>

" mailto:hypothyroidism%40 " hypothyroidism@-groups.-com

> > [mailto:HYPERLINK

>

" mailto:hypothyroidism%40 " hypothyroidism@-groups.-com]

> > On Behalf Of HYPERLINK

>

" mailto:bear339%40aol.com " bear339@-aol.com

> > Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 1:28 PM

> > HYPERLINK

>

" mailto:hypothyroidism%40 " hypothyroidism@-groups.-com

> > Subject: Re: Re: Why do I have

> > aches and pains?

> >

> >

> >

> > Neil,

> > So if I'm understanding what you're saying, do you

> > agree with more of a free

> >

> > market, libertarian kind of healthcare system?

> Like

> > competitive prices and

> > therefore cheaper? And therefore much lower taxes

> > ... and when a person gets

> > sick

> > they just shop around for themselves? If not, what

> > do you propose as a

> > better

> > method than what's already been mentioned? Sorry,

> to

> > ask political questions

> >

> > guys.

> >

> >

> >

> > Neil, you said:

>

=== message truncated ===

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

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[Guest guest]

I don't consider any of these insurances great,

because they get to choose what treatments a patient

can and cannot have, instead of that decision being

left up to the patient and doctor.

Roni

--- Gracia <circe@...> wrote:

>

> I have great insurance, Anthem/Blue Cross, but it

> refuses to pay for HGH, something I definately need.

> So I am going broke trying to afford it. They are

> refusing to pay b/c they are only interested in

> their profits.

> Gracia

>

>

>

> HMOs are strictly For Profit organizations, and

> their

> bottom line is their medical criteria. Being in an

> HMO

> automatically limits your care. If you can, I

> would

> advise switching to a PPO or Fee For Service

> health

> care plan. If you are over 65 the Medicare

> Supplement

> is probably your best bet.

>

> Roni

>

>

> Recent Activity

> a.. 4New Members

> Visit Your Group

>

[Guest guest]

Now that is an idea I could get behind! Excellent thought...

Neil

_____

From: hypothyroidism [mailto:hypothyroidism ]

On Behalf Of Roni Molin

Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 10:20 AM

hypothyroidism

Subject: RE: Re: Why do I have aches and pains?

I agree. I actually think that instead of universal

healthcare, the insurance companies should be pooled,

and all Americans should have healthcare, and the

insurance companies should not be able to pick and

choose. I also think that each person should be able

to use the doctor of his or her choice, and the method

of care agreed upon by the patient and doctor. I don't

feel the insurance companies should have any say in

that at all. If everybody is covered they shouldn't

have to vie for customer. Their profit margins should

also be controlled. Instead of people being

controlled, control the insurance companies, reduce

the amount they charge doctors for insurance, actually

get rid of bad doctors, force hospitals to maintain

high quality of personnel and care, and close them if

they don't or fine them per day, whichever works best

for the patients. The focus today is unfortunately not

for the people, where it should be.

Roni

--- neil <HYPERLINK " mailto:neilneil%40adelphia.net " neilneiladelphia (DOT) -net>

wrote:

> Hi Roni,

>

> Actually I already switched to an PPO. I was holding

> up my personal HMO

> experiences as an example as what I would expect

> under a govt universal

> health care model.

>

> made a excellent point about half a hour ago

> " For the way a federal

> healthcare system would probably work just look at

> Walter . "

>

> A most excellent example of your govt in action. I

> would rather pay out of

> pocket.

>

> Neil

>

>

>

> _____

>

> From: HYPERLINK

" mailto:hypothyroidism%40 " hypothyroidism@-groups.-com

> [mailto:HYPERLINK

" mailto:hypothyroidism%40 " hypothyroidism@-groups.-com]

> On Behalf Of Roni Molin

> Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 9:24 AM

> HYPERLINK

" mailto:hypothyroidism%40 " hypothyroidism@-groups.-com

> Subject: RE: Re: Why do I have

> aches and pains?

>

>

>

> HMOs are strictly For Profit organizations, and

> their

> bottom line is their medical criteria. Being in an

> HMO

> automatically limits your care. If you can, I would

> advise switching to a PPO or Fee For Service health

> care plan. If you are over 65 the Medicare

> Supplement

> is probably your best bet.

>

> Roni

>

> --- neil <HYPERLINK

>

" mailto:neilneil%-40adelphia.-net " neilneil@-adelphia.--net>

> wrote:

>

> > Hi ,

> >

> > I'm honestly not sure what the answer is. But I

> know

> > big Govt. screws up

> > everything they touch, so that can't possibly be

> the

> > answer. I don't want

> > the same morons that run the DMV, social security,

> > etc, running health care!

> >

> > Up until a few years ago I never had really been

> > sick so I never had much

> > contact with doctor's for anything other than a

> > routine physical. I had paid

> > into Kaiser for over a decade and only used it a

> > handful of times. I figured

> > that Kaiser must have good doctors, they graduated

> > from big name medical

> > schools, right? But then over a year or so

> suddenly

> > I didn't feel well, and

> > I assumed that Kaiser would quickly figure out

> what

> > was wrong with me. I

> > couldn't have been more wrong, or more surprised

> in

> > what happened next.

> > After about 30 or 40 doctor visits they never

> could

> > figure out what was

> > wrong, mostly because they never would run proper

> > tests or really any tests

> > at all. Finally I switched insurance companies at

> > the next open enrollment

> > out of complete desperation, my situation and

> > symptoms were getting worse.

> > The new doctors at the other HMO immediately found

> I

> > had one 100% blockage

> > (RCA artery) and one 85% blockage (LAD artery, the

> > " widow maker artery " ). I

> > must have had a silent heart attack, for I now

> have

> > some degree of heart

> > damage and permanent changes on my EKG that could

> > have been prevented if

> > Kaiser had run proper tests and cleared the

> blockage

> > quickly with stents.

> > From what I understand citizens in Canada and

> > England have problems with

> > their " universal care " as well, operations are

> > postponed often until the

> > patient dies, diagnosis spotty, and people in

> these

> > countries that have the

> > financial means come to the United States seeking

> > medical treatment from

> > private specialists.

> >

> > Anyway, the only doctors I have been completely

> and

> > totally satisfied were

> > outside doctors I paid out of my own pocket. They

> > are the only ones that

> > don't dismiss me, the patient, after a short 5

> > minute visit, run tests,

> > listen to me...the patient that writes the check

> and

> > is their employer.

> > Private doctors are able to adjust hormone levels

> of

> > thyroid, adrenal, and

> > testosterone to OPTIMAL levels, not the broad

> levels

> > that HMO's and

> > universal care systems use....HMO's for example

> use

> > such broad levels of

> > thyroid that only the most critically ill are

> > diagnosed with hypothyroidism

> > or any disease or condition. My HMO endo told me

> > that my TSH of over 3 and

> > symptoms of fatigue, lightheadedness , etc must

> mean

> > I was " depressed " and

> > that I needed Prozac because her testing showed I

> > was fine. In further

> > testing though, completely on my own and at

> > considerable expense, I have

> > found out that my adrenal cortisol levels are

> almost

> > undetectable over most

> > of the day. Indeed I am not only hypothyroid, I'm

> > borderline 's, and

> > that I have the testosterone of a 90 year old man

> as

> > well. Of course she

> > never checked for any of that.

> >

> > I am now getting the treatment that I need, and am

> > getting all my hormones

> > adjusted to OPTIMAL levels, not the broad levels

> the

> > HMO dictates that only

> > show the grossest disease of people near death. So

> > in system where the

> > doctor is the " gatekeeper " like England and Canada

> > have, how EXACTLY would I

> > be better off???

> >

> > Neil

> >

> > _____

> >

> > From: HYPERLINK

>

" mailto:hypothyroid-ism%40group-s.com " hypothyroi-dism@-group-s.-co

m

> > [mailto:HYPERLINK

>

" mailto:hypothyroid-ism%40group-s.com " hypothyroi-dism@-group-s.-co

m]

> > On Behalf Of HYPERLINK

>

" mailto:bear3-39%40aol.-com " bear33-9@-aol.com

> > Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 1:28 PM

> > HYPERLINK

>

" mailto:hypothyroid-ism%40group-s.com " hypothyroi-dism@-group-s.-co

m

> > Subject: Re: Re: Why do I have

> > aches and pains?

> >

> >

> >

> > Neil,

> > So if I'm understanding what you're saying, do you

> > agree with more of a free

> >

> > market, libertarian kind of healthcare system?

> Like

> > competitive prices and

> > therefore cheaper? And therefore much lower taxes

> > ... and when a person gets

> > sick

> > they just shop around for themselves? If not, what

> > do you propose as a

> > better

> > method than what's already been mentioned? Sorry,

> to

> > ask political questions

> >

> > guys.

> >

> >

> >

> > Neil, you said:

>

=== message truncated ===

____________-_________-_________-_________-_________-_________-_

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11:54 PM

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11:54 PM

[Guest guest]

I would gladly partake of this conversation more, but I have never

lived anywhere that a National Healthcare System was in place and

from what I gather, neither have you, so on that note I will drop the

subject.

Standing in my integrity that I would rather at least change and try

something new, as what is in place clearly does not work. No system

is perfect, but I also know it is not fair for only the wealthy or

the very poor to get healthcare.

Respectfully,

Jackie

On Jul 5, 2007, at 8:49 AM, wrote:

> That is the flaw in your argument. If you pay more in taxes you will

> not make sure everyone is taken care of; you will merely make sure

> there

> is a bigger pot of tax dollars for the politicians and other crooks to

> fight over.

>

> For the way a federal healthcare system would probably work just

> look at

> Walter .

>

> > I would gladly pay more in taxes to make sure everyone is being

> taken

> > care of.

>

>

>

www.jordanreimer.com

Support My Music....Jordan Reimer Music

[Guest guest]

I totally disagree. The insurance companies and the drug companies are one

and the same, and exist for profit. Only the guvmint cares that it's citizens

actually be healthy.

Gracia

Now that is an idea I could get behind! Excellent thought...

Neil

_____

From: hypothyroidism [mailto:hypothyroidism ]

On Behalf Of Roni Molin

Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 10:20 AM

hypothyroidism

Subject: RE: Re: Why do I have aches and pains?

I agree. I actually think that instead of universal

healthcare, the insurance companies should be pooled,

and all Americans should have healthcare, and the

insurance companies should not be able to pick and

choose. I also think that each person should be able

to use the doctor of his or her choice, and the method

of care agreed upon by the patient and doctor. I don't

feel the insurance companies should have any say in

that at all. If everybody is covered they shouldn't

have to vie for customer. Their profit margins should

also be controlled. Instead of people being

controlled, control the insurance companies, reduce

the amount they charge doctors for insurance, actually

get rid of bad doctors, force hospitals to maintain

high quality of personnel and care, and close them if

they don't or fine them per day, whichever works best

for the patients. The focus today is unfortunately not

for the people, where it should be.

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[Guest guest]

What on earth makes you think the govt cares about our health??? Examples?

_____

From: hypothyroidism [mailto:hypothyroidism ]

On Behalf Of Gracia

Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 6:58 AM

hypothyroidism

Subject: Re: Re: Why do I have aches and pains?

I totally disagree. The insurance companies and the drug companies are one

and the same, and exist for profit. Only the guvmint cares that it's

citizens actually be healthy.

Gracia

Now that is an idea I could get behind! Excellent thought...

Neil

_____

From: HYPERLINK

" mailto:hypothyroidism%40 " hypothyroidism@-groups.-com

[mailto:HYPERLINK

" mailto:hypothyroidism%40 " hypothyroidism@-groups.-com]

On Behalf Of Roni Molin

Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 10:20 AM

HYPERLINK

" mailto:hypothyroidism%40 " hypothyroidism@-groups.-com

Subject: RE: Re: Why do I have aches and pains?

I agree. I actually think that instead of universal

healthcare, the insurance companies should be pooled,

and all Americans should have healthcare, and the

insurance companies should not be able to pick and

choose. I also think that each person should be able

to use the doctor of his or her choice, and the method

of care agreed upon by the patient and doctor. I don't

feel the insurance companies should have any say in

that at all. If everybody is covered they shouldn't

have to vie for customer. Their profit margins should

also be controlled. Instead of people being

controlled, control the insurance companies, reduce

the amount they charge doctors for insurance, actually

get rid of bad doctors, force hospitals to maintain

high quality of personnel and care, and close them if

they don't or fine them per day, whichever works best

for the patients. The focus today is unfortunately not

for the people, where it should be.

Recent Activity

a.. 4New Members

Visit Your Group

[Guest guest]

the guvmint is you. the guvmint should want you healthy, productive, paying

taxes, not on disability.

Gracia

The GOVERNMENT cares??? Oh, boy...

>

>

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