Re: you're okay now?

September 25, 2007

Hi ,

You're back to your old self. Does that mean you're okay now? Weren't you the

one who wrote " Feel absolutely awful " Kindly share what the experience has been

like, the die-offs

Joni

<jayppers2672@...> wrote: I'm

typically at 70% fat and 30% protein on any given day.

I eat eggs. OK, so there are trivial amounts of carbs in eggs (like .4

g in one), but I don't count that really. OK, so, technically not

'no-carb', but you know what I'm saying. I'm essentially a carnivore.

I eat meat, fat, butter, eggs, fish & fish oil, pork, salmon, beef,

chicken, buffalo, etc. High fat is the key.

---------------------------------

oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.

September 25, 2007

Hi, Joni.

Yes, I'm doing better, but am still struggling daily.

I've heavily decreased my coconut oil consumption to about 1 teaspoon

daily, and my diarrhea and loose stools have subsided. I actually

haven't had a bowel movement since the end of last week. Not sure

quite what to think of that, but I'm not about to start taking a bunch

of coconut oil to remedy it.

For a time I was just not taking any coconut oil. I then decided to

start again very slowly, adding in only 1 teaspoon with my evening

meal. Last night I had some pretty strong die-off even from just this

one teaspoon! Right after taking it I was almost immediately drowsy,

and I was struggling to keep my eyes open. I had to retire to the

couch to rest after finishing my chores.

I take this as a sign that I am simply seriously infested with Candida

and this is going to be a very long and difficult road for me, even

though I've already been on the program for virtually 9 months.

My abdominal discomfort and bloating is still with me after meals,

which is very frustrating. I have begun taking betaine HCL again, and

have been taking it for 3 days now. It seems to be helping me, and I

haven't come across the heartburn I used to get when I took it. I'm

doing two tablets with each meal now. I'm hoping that I don't get the

heartburn so that I can continue using it to help my meals digest.

Honestly, I'm still feeling very depressed and having thoughts of

suicide in the morning. It is very distressing for me.

I picked up a copy of 'The Yeast Syndrome' over the weekend. One thing

that really gets me down is the fact that throughout the entire book,

they are continually telling stories about patients who began taking

Nystatin and had their symptoms disappear in a matter of days, if not

a few weeks. Additionally, they talk about how herx. and die-off is

only a temporary issue that 'rarely' lasts more than a few weeks. I

keep thinking about this, and it just depresses me because I can't

understand why I seem to be having die-off problems MONTHS after

beginning the program and using natural anti-fungals.

That's all for now. Just trying to keep myself sane and continue on

the program.

Thanks for asking how I'm doing, Joni. Best wishes!

>

> Hi ,

>

> You're back to your old self. Does that mean you're okay now?

Weren't you the one who wrote " Feel absolutely awful " Kindly share what

the experience has been like, the die-offs

>

> Joni

>

September 25, 2007

>

>>

> Honestly, I'm still feeling very depressed and having thoughts of

> suicide in the morning. It is very distressing for me.

------, I'm not qualified to help you with these feelings, but I

couldn't read that sentence and not respond. I urge you to find

somebody that you can talk to. Do you have family or friends that you

feel comfortable sharing your thoughts with? Are you against seeking

professional counseling for some reason?

> I picked up a copy of 'The Yeast Syndrome' over the weekend. One

thing

> that really gets me down is the fact that throughout the entire

book,

> they are continually telling stories about patients who began taking

> Nystatin and had their symptoms disappear in a matter of days, if

not

> a few weeks. Additionally, they talk about how herx. and die-off is

> only a temporary issue that 'rarely' lasts more than a few weeks. I

> keep thinking about this, and it just depresses me because I can't

> understand why I seem to be having die-off problems MONTHS after

> beginning the program and using natural anti-fungals.

-----I've only been on the program for about 3 months, but I'm still

experiencing die-off, so I, too, take issue with the assertion that

die-off rarely lasts more than a few weeks. I still find my energy

level low. You mentioned that you had to go sit on the couch after

you finished your chores. Sometimes I have to go sit on the couch

during my chores. About the Nystatin--if it's bothering you to read

that some people's symptoms were gone within weeks, why don't you get

some and see how it works for you?

Nine months on the program and you're still feeling awful? Exactly

what are you taking every day? What supplements and in what amount?

What food on a typical day? Are you eating enough? You mentioned

that you're doing no-carb. How long? The whole nine months? Is it

because you don't like vegetables? Maybe you need to tweak your diet

and add some. It's not hard to do even if you don't like them. I

blend raw veggies into the egg drink.

, if you ever feel like bitching about what you're going

through, but don't want to complain to friends who don't really

understand, or you don't feel like posting on this board, feel free

to email me at teslod@.... I don't care if you write every day.

tess

September 25, 2007

Thanks, a. Actually, in my previous post, I mentioned how I've

begun using HCL again (for the thirds time) and it seems to be

helping, but it doesn't seem to stop my bloating and abdominal

discomfort about 4 or 5 hours after meal that comes on. But then

again, I just started it again, so I need to give it some time. I'm up

to about 2 tablets per meal now and am monitoring my reactions. If I

get any heaviness, irritation, or burning, I'm going to drop down my

dosage, but so far so good. I'll end up increasing slowly by 1 tablet

if I feel I can tolerate it. I'm hoping that I just continually

improve with it, and I don't start to become intolerant to it, because

I'm really hoping that low stomach acid is behind a lot of my

abdominal issues that have persisted for quite some time now. I know

candida is probably a factor, but I've done so much to suppress it and

control it, I just have to find something else that can help my

digestive problems.

Thanks again,

> Hi ,

>

> I am not sure if this has been mentioned, but HCL (hydrochloric

acid) helped

> me with bloating after eating. I spent 1 ½ years so bloated people

thought I

> was pregnant, a low back ache, and absolutely no energy by mid-day.

Then a

> doctor recommended HCL. I had tried everything and didn't have much

hope but

> it worked. It's mentioned somewhere in the files, too.

>

> a

>

September 25, 2007

>

> >

> >>

> > Honestly, I'm still feeling very depressed and having thoughts of

> > suicide in the morning. It is very distressing for me.

>

> ------, I'm not qualified to help you with these feelings, but I

> couldn't read that sentence and not respond. I urge you to find

> somebody that you can talk to. Do you have family or friends that you

> feel comfortable sharing your thoughts with? Are you against seeking

> professional counseling for some reason?

//> Thanks, Tess. I do have people I can talk to, family mostly. I

confide in my mother a lot -- she is very important to me; However, I

can't help but just get so down from my abdominal discomfort and

overall feelings of depression (which I know are very linked to

candida and my digestive difficulties) that I often think about just

not living any longer because sometimes it just feels like my body is

deteriorating -- I mean, digesting my food is the core to a healthy

life... and it just is compromised for so long, I fee like things are

just not moving forward. It isn't because I'm not greatful for my

life, or my situation, it is just that mentally I have great struggles

with feeling well and feeling healthy, and it is just a vicious cycle

that I'm trying very hard to break, but sometimes I just cannot escape

the bad feelings when I feel ill, no matter how hard I try.

> -----I've only been on the program for about 3 months, but I'm still

> experiencing die-off, so I, too, take issue with the assertion that

> die-off rarely lasts more than a few weeks. I still find my energy

> level low. You mentioned that you had to go sit on the couch after

> you finished your chores. Sometimes I have to go sit on the couch

> during my chores. About the Nystatin--if it's bothering you to read

> that some people's symptoms were gone within weeks, why don't you

get some and see how it works for you?

//> I guess I haven't pursued getting Nystatin b/c I was on Sporanox

for over a year previously and it did pretty much nothing for me. I am

now devoted to the natural diet, supplement, and natural antifungal

route to resolving my candida issues. I also am very reluctant to

pursue Nystatin for my candida b/c I am pretty certain my doctor will

think I'm nuts if I request it. Also, I have read much with regards to

how effective natural antifungals are, even as strong as nystatin, so

I don't really feel that it is all that necessary at this time. If

anyone disagrees, please let me know!

> Nine months on the program and you're still feeling awful?

//> Well, I'm sorry you've asked this question that way. I cannot help

it that I have still yet to feel well on the program, and I don't

really appreciate your accusatory tone, as if to imply I've done

something to sabotage my progress. I remain very devoted to the

program and my recovery and am pouring my entire life into this. I

cannot explain why I still am suffering much with overcoming my

candida issues, and the way you've asked this again reinforces the

idea that I should have already overcome my problems and my candida

issues already, which is very unmotivational for me.

>Exactly what are you taking every day? What supplements and in what

amount?

> What food on a typical day? Are you eating enough? You mentioned

> that you're doing no-carb. How long? The whole nine months? Is it

> because you don't like vegetables? Maybe you need to tweak your diet

> and add some. It's not hard to do even if you don't like them. I

> blend raw veggies into the egg drink.

//> I don't really care for vegetables, as they give me digestive

distress, gas, and acid reflux when I eat them. So, naturally, I

dropped them, as they were giving me negative reactions. I've been

essentially veggie free the entire 9-months on my low-/no-carb. diet.

I don't take much in the way of supplements any longer, as I feel that

a meat, eggs, butter, and high fat diet is very very nutritious and

perfect fuel for the human body.

I typically have chicken thighs, eggs, beef, pork, plenty of good

butter, sea salt, fish oil, and coconut oil each day. I do think I'm

getting enough to eat, but sometimes I don't think I am when I don't

eat much because of my abdominal discomfort and bloating, etc. Eating

as much as I'd like sometimes puts me in distress.

> , if you ever feel like bitching about what you're going

> through, but don't want to complain to friends who don't really

> understand, or you don't feel like posting on this board, feel free

> to email me at teslod@... I don't care if you write every day.

//> Thanks, Tess. I'll surely take you up on your offer should I feel

I need some support and someone to reach out to. Thanks for your

concern and suggestions to assist me.

> tess

September 25, 2007

Hi ,

I am so sorry you are feeling discouraged. I don't like those fast

recovery stories either and I think they are only half truths. I

myself thought I was much better after only a short time on the diet.

Little did I know that what was happening is that I just stopped

feeding them, but I had yet to kill any. When the die off started,

boy was I surprised. I think people who recover quickly are not

really looking at the whole picture and I doubt those fast recoveries

last very long. So hang in there, it's a long road, for sure, but

nothing worth having comes easily.

I do want to mention two other things, though. I have been on the diet

about as long as you, and I had real issues with depression as well.

I was a whole foods person myself and I believed as you do that we

should get the nutrients we need from our food. However, that just

wasn't working for me after awhile. So I finally made the decision to

try the supplements. I still feel that I should get most of my

nutrients from food in the long run, but the way I look at supplements

now is that my body has been so poorly nourished for so long, it needs

the extra help to get better.

It wasn't until adding the supplements that my die off reactions began

to diminish. I think this was because the supplements helped my body

flush out the toxins quicker. It also made a huge difference with my

mood. Don't get me wrong, I do believe you can do the diet and get

better by just using food. I truly believe that, but I think using

supplements can speed things up a bit, and since you sound so

frustrated with how slowly things are progressing, maybe supplements

are exactly what you need to help move things along a little faster

and give you a sense of achievement. I really think it might help you

to consider them. I know for me when I did, it was a real turning point.

Also I wanted to say something about your avoidance of veggies. I

don't think its bad or anything, but veggies like garlic, kale, onions

and others also have anti-candida properties and they are so low in

carbs that maybe the anti-candida properties of these foods might make

them worthwhile to add back into your diet. Just a thought.

Anyway, keep your chin up ! This diet IS the hardest thing I

have ever had to do in my life. I admire you and everyone else on

this group who has made the commitment to their health and have chosen

to heal themselves rather than medicate their symptoms. You have

chosen a hard road , but its the right one, I really believe

that. You will get better, we all will get better, we just have to

take it one day at a time.

Best in Health,

Jecca

September 25, 2007

Hi , not sure if this has been mentioned but have you tried

Choline? My chiropractor had me start Choline and HCL when I had

similar problems and it started responding to it in a jiffy.

Possibly check into that? I was at the point that I could eat a

pretzel back then and burp for half an hour....until I started

choline bitartrate along with the Betaine HCL (Metagest from

Metagenics). My nutritionist said I had low stomach acid and should

respond nicely to these, which I did.

steve

>

> Thanks, a. Actually, in my previous post, I mentioned how

I've

> begun using HCL again (for the thirds time) and it seems to be

> helping, but it doesn't seem to stop my bloating and abdominal

> discomfort about 4 or 5 hours after meal that comes on. But then

> again, I just started it again, so I need to give it some time. I'm

up

> to about 2 tablets per meal now and am monitoring my reactions. If I

> get any heaviness, irritation, or burning, I'm going to drop down my

> dosage, but so far so good. I'll end up increasing slowly by 1

tablet

> if I feel I can tolerate it. I'm hoping that I just continually

> improve with it, and I don't start to become intolerant to it,

because

> I'm really hoping that low stomach acid is behind a lot of my

> abdominal issues that have persisted for quite some time now. I know

> candida is probably a factor, but I've done so much to suppress it

and

> control it, I just have to find something else that can help my

> digestive problems.

>

> Thanks again,

>

September 25, 2007

>

> //> I guess I haven't pursued getting Nystatin b/c I was on Sporanox

> for over a year previously and it did pretty much nothing for me. I

am

> now devoted to the natural diet, supplement, and natural antifungal

> route to resolving my candida issues. I also am very reluctant to

> pursue Nystatin for my candida b/c I am pretty certain my doctor

will

> think I'm nuts if I request it. Also, I have read much with regards

to

> how effective natural antifungals are, even as strong as nystatin,

so

> I don't really feel that it is all that necessary at this time. If

> anyone disagrees, please let me know!

-----My mistake. I thought that you said that you couldn't tolerate

natural antifungals and were only taking a teaspoon of co. It just

sounded like you were questioning your program and frustrated that

people were making claims of a quick cure when most of us realize

that we have a very long road ahead of us.

>

> > Nine months on the program and you're still feeling awful?

>

> //> Well, I'm sorry you've asked this question that way. I cannot

help

> it that I have still yet to feel well on the program, and I don't

> really appreciate your accusatory tone, as if to imply I've done

> something to sabotage my progress. I remain very devoted to the

> program and my recovery and am pouring my entire life into this. I

> cannot explain why I still am suffering much with overcoming my

> candida issues, and the way you've asked this again reinforces the

> idea that I should have already overcome my problems and my candida

> issues already, which is very unmotivational for me.

Whoa, . Your response is quite telling but I won't go into the

psychology of it. My asking of that question was more an expression

of shock that you've been going through such a bad time for so long.

There is nothing accusatory in the tone at all but maybe you might

want to think about your reaction. Don't use my innocent question as

an excuse for your own motivation. There was absolutely no

suggestion that you're sabotaging your own progress. I don't know

anything about how long it will take you to overcome your issues. All

I know is what Bee said--it takes a month for every year you've had a

problem. You say that you're very devoted to the program, yet Bee's

program includes supplements and you're not taking any. She also

advocates sauerkraut for digestive problems, but I don't see that

included in your list. It's obvious that your continued distress

calls for some changes to your program, but you do what you have to

do and in the future I'll just keep my mouth shut.

> > tess

>

September 25, 2007

<jayppers2672@ <mailto:jayppers2672%40> > wrote:

said:

My abdominal discomfort and bloating is still with me after meals,

which is very frustrating.

Hi ,

I am not sure if this has been mentioned, but HCL (hydrochloric acid) helped

me with bloating after eating. I spent 1 ½ years so bloated people thought I

was pregnant, a low back ache, and absolutely no energy by mid-day. Then a

doctor recommended HCL. I had tried everything and didn’t have much hope but

it worked. It’s mentioned somewhere in the files, too.

a

September 26, 2007

Hi - I am sorry I missed that in your previous post. And I also want

to offer that you can complain and vent with me personally any time. As I

mentioned I've dealt with the abdominal distention and know how frustrating

it is. I have also dealt with depression and a host of other stuff. So feel

free to " talk " to me any time at a dot carlton at gmail dot com.

I hope you will better very soon. I have been dealing with various health

issues for many years now and life altering health issues for the past 5

years. It can be very frustrating.

a

_____

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of

Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 6:25 PM

Subject: [ ] Re: you're okay now?