Re: Heart attack?

[Guest guest]

I've been watching this thread and I've got to chime in

a) I agree you should be checked out by a Dr. and also agree it is most

likely not a heart issue but a digestive issue

It seems to me that basically you want to give yourself an excuse, a

reason to 'have' to eat carbs. I've seen it happen with people over and

over again, rationalizing a reason why they need to add more starched or

sugars back in their diet. A tendency I've noticed over and over with you

chris is denial, sorry to be blunt, but...........this is something you need

to watch in yourself

c) If you don't want to be on the diet then don't want to be on the diet but

truely think about your reasons why. Why are you giving yourself this 'way

out'. Heart issues shouldn't have anything to do with it because

physiological this diet will not aggrevate heart issues, in fact saturated

fat is the building blocks for the CNS and heart muscle so should help if

anything

Just be true to your self and think about your true motivations

_________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

To both and Denis -

I can second this pointing to adrenals/thyroid. Mine were a mess when I began

this

program almost a year back and they can cause very severe and frightening

symptoms.

During die-off they caused symptoms just as Denis described too.

I was also a vegetarian for 15 yrs prior to this program but at this point, I

would never look

back. The sickest folks I know all around me are either vegetarians or really

avoid fats.

My adrenals are in much better shape today having followed this program and

doing the

adrenals " exercises " in Bee's files. I HIGHLY recommend them.

However, to ease your mind you *should* visit the ER and get checked out.

I have

been to the ER 4x at my very sickest and my heart was always in good shape but I

can

understand the fear and one of the characteristics of adrenal issues I have read

is the

" feeling you are going to die " . It is so scary and I can relate.

Good luck to you both and Denis -

~Anita

> Hi Denis,

>

> A racing heart or heart palpitations are common die off symptoms and

> also a signal of adrenal fatigue or thyroid issues. We've talked about

> it here many times. Maybe do a message archive search for more info.

>

hope that helps,

> jackie

>

[Guest guest]

,

As you know It can be very hard to change over to this program, for

some much more than others, Idon't know what it was like for you.

When I was going through withdrawal symptoms they were so extreme I

didn't know how I would survive it - or if I wanted to.

I think has been trying very hard. She's just being open about

feelings and thoughts and had a very scary episode! She just needs to

be re-assured from those of us that got past the rough spot. Let's

not be too rough on her, we need to be encouraging and supportive

here.

I also don't think it's as easy as just saying to someone to just be

on the diet or be off it. It takes a while to make changes and for

the body to adapt along the way. If I suddenly went on the whole

diet, I don't see how I could have survived it - I'm not exaggerating

or just using an expression. I had to adapt to changes, every little

thing, the egg drink, increasing fats etc. It was very difficult for

my body to handle it all. Questioning and re-evaluating is not

unhealthy, we are all learning here, we're all trying to understand.

My big concern, and I've seen it before, is that if we're too harsh

with someone, it can make others afraid to even ask a question. Let's

keep this forum a palce where people are comfortable to air a concern,

this is the candida 'support' group afterall.

Elyse

On 2/8/07, Petrolino <lkpetrolino@...> wrote:

> I've been watching this thread and I've got to chime in

> a) I agree you should be checked out by a Dr. and also agree it is most

> likely not a heart issue but a digestive issue

> It seems to me that basically you want to give yourself an excuse, a

> reason to 'have' to eat carbs. I've seen it happen with people over and

> over again, rationalizing a reason why they need to add more starched or

> sugars back in their diet. A tendency I've noticed over and over with you

> chris is denial, sorry to be blunt, but...........this is something you need

> to watch in yourself

> c) If you don't want to be on the diet then don't want to be on the diet but

> truely think about your reasons why. Why are you giving yourself this 'way

> out'. Heart issues shouldn't have anything to do with it because

> physiological this diet will not aggrevate heart issues, in fact saturated

> fat is the building blocks for the CNS and heart muscle so should help if

> anything

[Guest guest]

I'm not saying questioning and re-evaluating is about thing, this is an

important issue. I am saying false justifying is a bad thing, lifes

tough and sometimes you need to wake up to reality.

In my opinon that is the true definition of support. Helping someone

see the truth and come to grips with their own motivation. Disease

isn't polite.

[Guest guest]

> My big concern, and I've seen it before, is that if we're too harsh

> with someone, it can make others afraid to even ask a question. Let's

> keep this forum a palce where people are comfortable to air a concern,

> this is the candida 'support' group afterall.

I see your side, Elyse, but I see 's too. See, most of us HAVE been

trying to support but she's being pretty negative, and she isn't

seeming too receptive to the support.

I understand that we all come to the table with issues. I understand that

getting through withdrawl or dealing with addiction is an ongoing process

for a lot of us. (It sure is for me!) But I think what was trying

to say (and I'm certainly not trying to speak for her -- just expressing

what I took her to say) is that we have to have some honesty and self

respect while going through this process. We don't need excuses. We're

much healthier in all aspects of our life if we're honest with ourselves.

To me, that means that if I'm not ready to give up carbs (because of my

addiction, in my case), I don't need to blame it on something else. I

don't need some outside something or other to give me permission to eat in

a way that I know isn't healthy for me. If I choose to eat in a way

that's not healthy for me, I have to take responsibility for that. (And I

do... Trust me. It's a daily struggle for me.)

The negativity that has shown is likely driven by fear, but we don't

want that negativity to get everybody else all stirred up into a frenzy.

That's counter-productive. We're hear to learn about curing our candida,

and we're not really supposed to debating the merits of eating the way we

do.

I'm not trying to stir anything up, really. I'm not trying to flame

anyone or seem unsupportive. I'm just concerned that things could go down

hill real fast if things keep going the way they are.

in IN

[Guest guest]

Exactly, thank you

[Guest guest]

I understand what you're saying , and to be honest I haven't been

following all the threads so I don't know what else has transpired. I

did think though that this sounded like a particularly scary episode

as some others that have been through it have confirmed. So it's

understandable someone might wonder wether what they're doing is the

right thing or not.

Elyse

On 2/8/07, Wittekind <starlite@...> wrote:

> I see your side, Elyse, but I see 's too.... I'm not trying to stir

anything up, really. I'm not trying to flame anyone or seem unsupportive. I'm

just concerned that things could go down hill real fast if things keep going the

way they are.

[Guest guest]

I agree with these points , I just wanted to let you know. (we

just go about it a little differently I guess). Elyse

On 2/8/07, lkpetrolino <lkpetrolino@...> wrote:

> I'm not saying questioning and re-evaluating is about thing, this is an

> important issue. I am saying false justifying is a bad thing, lifes

> tough and sometimes you need to wake up to reality.

>

> In my opinon that is the true definition of support. Helping someone

> see the truth and come to grips with their own motivation. Disease

> isn't polite.

[Guest guest]

>

MANY

> people go to ER with symptoms of heart attack and it turns out to be

> reflux. The symptoms are strikingly similar, and when it's

happening to

> you, there's no way to know which it is.

Hi All,

in IN is so right about this! This very thing happened to my

mother - she swore she was having a heart attack and spent all night

in an ER to find out it was acid reflux. She was so sure it was a

heart attack, and so sure it wasn't acid, that she didn't believe the

doctors! It took many tests and many doctors to convince her. She

didn't have any typical heartburn or stomach discomfort, only chest

pains. She also had gall bladder problems later and eventually had

her gall bladder removed - not sure if there is any connection there

or not.

Hope this helps! Hang in there Chris! I've had the same feeling of

doubts (though maybe not the same fear) that I just don't know what to

believe anymore. I've tried so many ways to be healthier and end up

worse off - the raw food thing was supposed to be the answer for

everything, but it wasn't. I was, for a short while, vegan and it

definitely wasn't for me. I'm not doing great with this diet yet

either (but I think the stress in my life has more to do with that),

but I know that eating meat and fats again just FEELS right for me. I

guess there's no way to KNOW anything for sure, only what FEELS best

for us.

in Tennessee

[Guest guest]

>

> I've never had this allergy symptom in my life (and I've had

many!).

>

>

Denis,

Allergies can cause an adrenaline rush and racing heart. I came

across this info a few years ago when trying to find out about mold

allergies. I'd considered myself an allergy expert since I've lived

with all kinds of allergies my whole life, but had to read more

about mold in particular when my whole family was sick and I found

mold in our bedrooms. Until then, I had no idea how varied the

symptoms can be! If you wake at 3 in the morning and can't get back

to sleep, it COULD be allergies - amazing! I'd always assumed it

was just anxiety.

I don't have time right now to find the website, but I will later

and post the link to it.

in Tennessee

[Guest guest]

Just my 2 cents, but it takes a big leap of faith to make major changes

in your life. Especially when those changes fly in the face of the

wisdom of the mainstream medical gods and everyone else in your world.

Its also difficult to know if bad symptoms are really good healing

reactions or if they are something more sinister. And faith always gets

tested when bad times are upon us. So its just a natural human trait to

question our beliefs in these times. Discussing these things, whether

positive or negative, is a good thing.

The other thing I try to remember during bad experiences is that

progress is never in a straight line. Progress is 3 steps foreward and

2 steps back, 5 steps foreward and 3 steps back, etc.

Andy

[Guest guest]

This is a wonderful post Andy, worth more than 2 cents :-)

Elyse

On 2/8/07, luretire09 <deerslayer54@...> wrote:

>

> Just my 2 cents, but it takes a big leap of faith to make major changes

> in your life. Especially when those changes fly in the face of the

> wisdom of the mainstream medical gods and everyone else in your world.

> Its also difficult to know if bad symptoms are really good healing

> reactions or if they are something more sinister. And faith always gets

> tested when bad times are upon us. So its just a natural human trait to

> question our beliefs in these times. Discussing these things, whether

> positive or negative, is a good thing.

>

> The other thing I try to remember during bad experiences is that

> progress is never in a straight line. Progress is 3 steps foreward and

> 2 steps back, 5 steps foreward and 3 steps back, etc.

>

> Andy

[Guest guest]

If anything, I have seen being extremely positive, and I got

the impression she enjoyed eating the fats and seeing what it was

doing for her, her figure, her hair, her skin and she even admitted

that she had more energy, etc etc. Now that she relates such an

experience, wham, out come the amateur psychiatrists to tell her

where she's REALLY going wrong.

I don't see that having a very frightening attack is RATIONALISING

herself into eating carbs. And quite frankly, reading your post

comes across as rather arrogant, demeaning and something that would

put anybody off from getting on here and discussing a health

experience, let alone a frightening experience.

Couldn't you just support her and explain it " might " be digestive,

but it's wise to check it out and make sure in case. As I am sure

you are not an expert and someone that knows everything there is to

know about everything. Give a break!!!! If I got this kind of

an answer to a frightening attack, my response to you would have me

chucked off this forum. I'm struggling right now to type this even

remotely politely.

you had the experience and a frightening one it was. Whether

digestive or heart related, I hope you get it checked out. I don't

believe you are making excuses at all, I think you are genuinely

scared and I would be too. You are wise to ease off until you know

what's going on if you feel better doing that!

take care and keep us posted on how things go.

.

>

> I've been watching this thread and I've got to chime in

> a) I agree you should be checked out by a Dr. and also agree it is

most

> likely not a heart issue but a digestive issue

> It seems to me that basically you want to give yourself an

excuse, a

> reason to 'have' to eat carbs. I've seen it happen with people

over and

> over again, rationalizing a reason why they need to add more

starched or

> sugars back in their diet. A tendency I've noticed over and over

with you

> chris is denial, sorry to be blunt, but...........this is something

you need

> to watch in yourself

> c) If you don't want to be on the diet then don't want to be on the

diet

[Guest guest]

> So curious: anyone had any heart problems from eating all these

> saturated fats?? Maybe I ate too much.

==>Our ancestors only had natural saturated fats to eat and they

survived, or we wouldn't be here. It was rare for anyone to have

heart disease prior to the industrialization of our foods; in fact the

doctor who invented the EKG was told by fellow physicians he was crazy

because it would never make any money since heart disease was so rare -

that was in the early 1900s. Stefansson did a year long study in the

hospital under doctor's supervision eating 75% fat and 25% meat; he

was healthier after that year:

http://www.biblelife.org/stefansson1.htm

> I was reading at Bee's site about magnesium.. I still can't take my

> magnesium supplement and I stil get twitching eye to a certain

degree.

==>Why can't you have magnesium; maybe try switching to a different

type or a different brand.

Bee

[Guest guest]

Very well said . Sometimes people are reluctant

to believe eating this way could be healthy because of

all the brain washing by the media, and sometimes it's

just that they plain want a reason to quit eating this

way.

Also many people go all gung-ho on this and detox way

to fast. I always say slow down and make this a life

style change, taking one small step at a time.

Finally I wanted to say that if you realize that we

evolved eating this way, that our ancestors ate this

way for millions of years, and ate a *lot* of fat, and

that other cultures like Eskimos and modern hunter

gathers eat tons of meat and fat and don't have heart

issues, then it's not scary at all.

What's scary is what sugar and grains do to our body.

I firmly believe that all humans should eat this way.

Luv,

Debby

San , CA

--- Petrolino <lkpetrolino@...> wrote:

> I've been watching this thread and I've got to chime

> in

> a) I agree you should be checked out by a Dr. and

> also agree it is most

> likely not a heart issue but a digestive issue

> It seems to me that basically you want to give

> yourself an excuse, a

> reason to 'have' to eat carbs. I've seen it happen

> with people over and

> over again, rationalizing a reason why they need to

> add more starched or

> sugars back in their diet. A tendency I've noticed

> over and over with you

> chris is denial, sorry to be blunt,

> but...........this is something you need

> to watch in yourself

> c) If you don't want to be on the diet then don't

> want to be on the diet but

> truely think about your reasons why. Why are you

> giving yourself this 'way

> out'. Heart issues shouldn't have anything to do

> with it because

> physiological this diet will not aggrevate heart

> issues, in fact saturated

> fat is the building blocks for the CNS and heart

> muscle so should help if

> anything

>

> Just be true to your self and think about your true

> motivations

>

-------------

I have never seen a person grow or change in a constructive direction when

motivated by guilt, shame and/or hate.

My son Hunter Hudson (10/11/04) http://debbypadilla.0catch.com/hunter/

[Guest guest]

--- macedgeca <macedgeca@...> wrote:

> As you know It can be very hard to change over to

> this program, for

> some much more than others, Idon't know what it was

> like for you.

> When I was going through withdrawal symptoms they

> were so extreme I

> didn't know how I would survive it - or if I wanted

> to.

You know I've had Candida since I was 1 years old for

sure (I had vagincal yeast infections at this age and

was given massive amounts of antibiotics) and I've

hardly had any die off symptoms.

I attribute this to the teeny tiny babysteps I've done

everything in. I knew I needed to do an anti-candida

diet, but first I wanted to work on a low carb diet

with no cheats, which I did for 8 months.

Then I spent 4 months slowly making the changes needed

to be on this diet (mostly get rid of nuts, dairy and

coffee).

I used mostly olive oil at first because I wanted to

do the coconut oil slowly. It took me many months to

get up to the 1/2 cup a day I do now.

I didn't get fully on the diet until after a year of

slowly weaning onto it. I didn't start with

antifungals until 6 months into it, and took very

small amounts.

My point is I believe it's possible to have very

little issue with this diet if you do everything at a

snails pace. If you get too sick, back up a step and

go slower.

> My big concern, and I've seen it before, is that if

> we're too harsh

> with someone, it can make others afraid to even ask

> a question. Let's

> keep this forum a palce where people are comfortable

> to air a concern,

> this is the candida 'support' group afterall.

I don't think it's unsupportive to tell someone

something they *might* need to hear. I know that for

me, what really turned me around was some tough love

and looking at the choices I made was not pleasant at

all.

Had I not faced my own personal and painful truths

with the help of my tough love mentor, I would not be

where I am today, 130 pounds lighter and with 2 years

and 4 months of abstinence under my belt.

Luv,

Debby

San , CA

-------------

I have never seen a person grow or change in a constructive direction when

motivated by guilt, shame and/or hate.

My son Hunter Hudson (10/11/04) http://debbypadilla.0catch.com/hunter/

[Guest guest]

--- lkpetrolino <lkpetrolino@...> wrote:

> In my opinon that is the true definition of support.

> Helping someone

> see the truth and come to grips with their own

> motivation. Disease

> isn't polite.

Very well said , I couldn't agree more! Thanks

for your words of wisdom.

Luv,

Debby

San , CA

-------------

I have never seen a person grow or change in a constructive direction when

motivated by guilt, shame and/or hate.

My son Hunter Hudson (10/11/04) http://debbypadilla.0catch.com/hunter/

[Guest guest]

--- fats_malone2002 <signposts8@...> wrote:

> If anything, I have seen being extremely

> positive, and I got

> the impression she enjoyed eating the fats and

> seeing what it was

> doing for her, her figure, her hair, her skin and

> she even admitted

> that she had more energy, etc etc.

I agree, I've really enjoyed Chris' sense of humor on

this group.. I meant to write her a private email and

tell her how much she has made me chuckle.

> Now that she

> relates such an

> experience, wham, out come the amateur psychiatrists

> to tell her

> where she's REALLY going wrong.

I'm sorry I don't see that as very supportive either..

it seems hypocritical to me. Giving people our honest

impressions and trying to give constructive criticism

is supportive to me.

If what she suggested is not the case for then

there's no reason for to be offended. Like if

someone said to me Debby, I think you are in denial

about this, I would either look inside myself and try

acknowledge they are right, or tell them they are

mistaken, but either way I would thank them for their

opinion.

I wouldn't be offended by that because they are just

trying to offer their support on a support group. We

won't always like the way support is provided, but

tough love can be very effective.

> Couldn't you just support her and explain it " might "

> be digestive,

> but it's wise to check it out and make sure in case.

Yes, that is the nice, safe, politically correct

answer but is it really what needs?

I guess I am leaning towards denial because I believe

a lot more people are addicted to carbs and other

foods then will actually admit it. But that's just my

own personal belief.

I read recently that sugar is more addictive than

heroin. Food addiction is a very real issue for many

people.

Luv,

Debby

San , CA

-------------

I have never seen a person grow or change in a constructive direction when

motivated by guilt, shame and/or hate.

My son Hunter Hudson (10/11/04) http://debbypadilla.0catch.com/hunter/

[Guest guest]

>>

> Maybe all that fat is irritating your insides??

==>Andy, the natural fats actually heal and strengthen your insides,

and they also help your body pull out nutrients from foods, i.e. aids

digestion.

Bee

[Guest guest]

I'm not trying to be politically correct Debby nor was I being

hypocritical or giving a " nice safe answer " . I also don't pretend to

know what needs, I am not God, I am not her mentor. I read

Chris' post and was stunned at her experience and equally stunned at

some of the rather judgemental responses to her, when her experience

caused obvious genuine alarm and evidentally is the first time it

occured. (sorry for discussing you in the third person here).

Debby, I don't pretend to know it all, do you? So I don't think any

of us have any right to gamble with HER health and this experience

and tell her she's " being negative " or " she's using excuses " and to

give her " enlightening " analysis'. How dare anybody do this over

such an attack. Carb addition is real, I know it well, but we are

talking here about an attack somebody has had!!! Is this not a deal

to people here?

Once again, I have only heard her talk positively on eating fats, she

was enjoying it immensely and even encouraged others on another forum

to take this diet onboard. Now that something occurs to her that is

alarming, this is what she gets for it.

I tell you now, after this? i will think very carefully before ever

posting an experience. One gets enough of those around them in

reality questioning their symptoms, or why they're doing this diet,

without getting on here and having similar behaviours for different

reasons. Nothing wrong with truth, but something is very wrong when

one gets this kind of response to such an experience, considering

it's a first for her.

You are entitled to your opinion, but I'm more concerned about Chris'

experience right now and if it is digestive? This is still a concern

that her body maybe having problems digesting all the fat. i have no

idea, and don't pretend to know either and hope she can get things

checked.

.

>

>

> > Couldn't you just support her and explain it " might "

> > be digestive,

> > but it's wise to check it out and make sure in case.

>

>

Yes, that is the nice, safe, politically correct

> answer but is it really what needs?

>

> I guess I am leaning towards denial because I believe

> a lot more people are addicted to carbs and other

> foods then will actually admit it. But that's just my

> own personal belief.

>

> I read recently that sugar is more addictive than

> heroin. Food addiction is a very real issue for many

> people.

>

>

> Luv,

> Debby

> San , CA

>

>

>

> -------------

> I have never seen a person grow or change in a constructive

direction when motivated by guilt, shame and/or hate.

>

>

> My son Hunter Hudson (10/11/04)

http://debbypadilla.0catch.com/hunter/

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Just my 2 cents, but it takes a big leap of faith to make major

changes in your life. Especially when those changes fly in the face of

the wisdom of the mainstream medical gods and everyone else in your

world. Its also difficult to know if bad symptoms are really good

healing reactions or if they are something more sinister.

==>We've been so used to medical definitions of symptoms, who will not

recognize or acknowledge that the body actually heals itself, that we

think of the body's reactions as separate diseases. The body only has

one immune system afterall and every labelled symptoms is a healing

reaction by the body. Believe in your body and it powerful miraculous

healing powers!

Bee

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your quick response. Someone has mentioned to me that their daughter

has a yellow cast to their skin and are wondering if it could be the high beta

carotene in it. Could that be possible? Are there any antifungal properties in

it?

Also, I find it ironic that so much bakery and store bought foods contain palm

oils and coconut oils. That is what gave it a bad rap. Why couldn't they add

pure unrefined coconut oil and palm oil to their products. It would save alot of

health problems by no trans fats. OOPs--no it wouldn't its the sugar and grains

that also cause the damage, not just the trans fats. Val

Bee <beeisbuzzing2003@...> wrote:

>

> Just my 2 cents, but it takes a big leap of faith to make major

changes in your life. Especially when those changes fly in the face of

the wisdom of the mainstream medical gods and everyone else in your

world. Its also difficult to know if bad symptoms are really good

healing reactions or if they are something more sinister.

==>We've been so used to medical definitions of symptoms, who will not

recognize or acknowledge that the body actually heals itself, that we

think of the body's reactions as separate diseases. The body only has

one immune system afterall and every labelled symptoms is a healing

reaction by the body. Believe in your body and it powerful miraculous

healing powers!

Bee

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

> >>

> > Maybe all that fat is irritating your insides??

>

> ==>Andy, the natural fats actually heal and strengthen your insides,

> and they also help your body pull out nutrients from foods, i.e. aids

> digestion.

>

> Bee

>

Bee I wasn't suggesting fats are bad. In my case I have always had

difficulty with fats so I need to go slow. Took me 6 months to get up

to 1 tbsp of cod oil. Now I've added a tbsp of coconut oil with no

problems. But if I up the dose of either my GERD flares up and

eventually causes chest pains. Too much too fast can cause problems is

what I was getting at.

Andy

[Guest guest]

>

> What's scary is what sugar and grains do to our

> body.

Hi debby,

I agree with y ou on the sugars but i am not too

certain about the grain. Why does the FDA support

grains as being a good thing to eat? I read the

articles on the negatives of grains, jw what you think.

To Our Health,

Marei

________________________________________________________________________________\

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[Guest guest]

would you please post something and let us know you are okay? We are all

concerned about you and support you. The tough times are only bearable when you

have someome to share them with. We all know how rough it is and wish you luck.

Cary

---------------------------------

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