Re: Heart attack?

[Guest guest]

Dr Siff:

If I may be so bold as to ask: How old were you when you had the heart

attack?

[Mel Siff: In my 50s - and still a competitively active weightlifter who had

never

been in hospital since he was born! Plus no cardiac risk factors, which is why

I now take theories about heart disease possibly involving bacterial infection a

lot more seriously. If you are interested in more details of my

coronary and subsequent rehabilitation program, go to:

<http://www.worldfitness.org/drmelsiff.html> ]

Steve Lofton

Skiatook, OK

----- Original Message -----

From: <Mcsiff@...>

< Once again, many thanks to all you caring and kind folks on the

Supertraining list who have continued to send us your prayers and best wishes.

I am so

pleased to be able to report that is now up and about, as lively as

ever and generally disobeying orders to " take it easy " . Her CAT scan is

entirely clear and she is now driving around the city in her adapted car and

revelling in being alive and being able to do whatever she can. She thanks all

of

you distant friends for your support and caring. Now she looks forward to

running her usual tough seated fitness session for those who are coming to

our next Strength Camp in a few weeks' time!

We are very blessed that she survived and is so well on the way to her

normal self. However, I shall never forget trying to open her almost lifeless

eyes as she lay senseless on the concrete sidewalk just a few days ago - that

image will be with me for the rest of my days! It will always remind me

to be eternally grateful for our both being spared during recent years.

Ironically, all of this happened almost exactly 4 years after I had my

near fatal coronary during a lecture to my engineering students. >

[Guest guest]

Steve Lofton at slofton@... asked Mel Siff:

<How old were you when you had the heart attack?

Mel Siff:

<In my 50s - and still a competitively active weightlifter who had

never been in hospital since he was born! Plus no cardiac risk factors.....>

Mel, if this is not too personal, does 'no risk factors' mean there was no

family history of heart problems, and that you were under no stress ?

[Mel Siff: No family history, normal cholesterol, normal cholesterol

ratios, no high blood pressure, fish-eating vegetarian for most of my

life, virtually no sugar, never a smoker, etc etc. To say that someone never

has any stress (distress or eustress) probably means that the person is dead.

However, I do think that stress can play a vital role in the development of any

disorder. Excessive stress is always mentioned as a possibility when doctors

cannot

identify an obvious cause of a disease - and my case was no exception. Isn't

it interesting that doctors do not generally look for stress as a significant

cause of any disease until they have looked at all other possibilities? ]

Regards,

Dickman.

Newcastle,

Australia.

[Guest guest]

I'm trying but I have no way to get to the DR. right now. (On hold

waiting to talk to her but I already left a mss that no one has

returned!)

Thanks!

Chris.

[Guest guest]

FWIW, I've had episodes like this that GI related. I'd get the chest

pain, the racing heart, the pain in my jaw, neck, and left shoulder, but

it would be from an esophageal spasm. VERY painful and scary, but not a

heart attack.

Definitely contact your dr regardless.

in IN

[Guest guest]

Thanks . Definitely had nothing to do with my GI tract which is

fine. Not an anxiety or panic attack either, I was fine there too.

I was just informed that the DR. said " to go to the ER " when I told

them it happened last night. This is the 3rd time since this summer

that I try to get the Dr on the phone and she just won't! Is this

normal?? Twice when I was at the Dr. she took off to take care of an

emergency, billed me for the full half-hour when I was barely seen for

5 mn!

For the record, I havent' even had breakfast at it's past 4PM where I

am. Just afraid to eat anything. I think maybe I'll have liver but

staying away from fats and eggs until I can figure this out.

Chris.

[Guest guest]

Hi my feeling is you need to get checked out. I've gone to the

ER once and came close to going several other times when I thought I

was having a heart attack. Turned out to be an acid reflux attack. I

still get them from time to time and I always wonder if this time

will really be a heart attack and I'm dying. Then things ease off and

I know its not.

Maybe all that fat is irritating your insides??

Andy

>

> Last night I had all the symptoms of a heart attack. (Increasing

> pressure in chest area, pain between my shoulder blades, racing

heart,

> shortness of breath, inability to breathe, pain...)I refused to call

> 911 (didn't want to get pumped full of drugs or cut open). Instead

> read about it in " Prescription for Nutritional Healing " made a glass

> of vitamin C powder and took some B complex along with extra B12 and

> B6, and some of the recommended supplements that I still have which

> I've proven a invaluable many times, possibly a lifesaver last

night,

> namely Alpha Lipoic Acid and IP6. After it passed, I ate what felt

> right, an apple.

>

> I really need to reevaluate things. At the present time, I have no

> idea what to eat but can no longer continue this high saturated fats

> diet until I am convinced that it wasn't the cause of my symptoms.

As

> you can well imagine, I am spooked senseless! And I can only imagine

> the conversation between 911 and my roommate, if he hadn't been so

> drunk last night and had called them: " What does she eat? " " A stick

of

> butter a day, lard, bacon, eggs, coconut oil.. " " Is that all? " " No

she

> also takes fat pills, fish oils and evening primerose oils, plus she

> eats all the fat in red meat and cooks everything in coconut oil... "

> They would have had me committed under suspicion of suicidal

> tendencies by dietary fat!

>

> The truth is when I became vegetarian I did so because I thought

those

> foods were healthy. All I knew is what I read. And when I started

this

> diet, I did so because I believed it was healthy. From stuff I've

read

> here and at Weston A. Price, but I take it at face value, I don't

know

> if what's printed is right or wrong! At the present, I have no idea

> what the truth is. I do know that my body got slender from stopping

> grains, got leaner and harder from VCO and bacon, and my hair got

> softer from adding butter to my diet. I also know that everyone

claims

> that sat. fats kill. And last night it appeared that way to me.

>

> I don't mean to spook anyone if this diet is really healthy, at the

> same time I have to be honest with what happened. Maybe I should go

> back to getting sodium EDTA IV's are those are supposed to heal the

> heart, remove heart plaque etc...

>

> If anyone else here has ever experienced the same symptoms while on

> this diet, please email me! If anyone has any idea what it could be

> other than a heart attack, please let me know. I am open to all

input.

> I've experienced racing heart about once a year, prior to being on

> this diet, but never all the symptoms that led me to believe it was

a

> heart attack. (I once talked to someone who had a heart attack and

he

> said he had one while walking thru the airport. I said what happened

> to you? He said " nothing, I just kept walking " . So apparently a

heart

> attack can be mild or severe and is not like what I know from

movies,

> old guy holding heart, making a weird sound and croaking face down

in

> his plate of soup.)

>

> Sorry for the bad news, and sorry for long post but I had to share.

I

> hope someone will have some valid input.

> Thanks,

> Chris.

>

[Guest guest]

Now that the crisis has passed. Why not go and have some blood work and confirm

whether you had a cardiac episode or not.

It seems important to know this regardless of how you choose to proceed from

here.

[Guest guest]

> Thanks . Definitely had nothing to do with my GI tract which is

> fine. Not an anxiety or panic attack either, I was fine there too.

What I was trying to say is that you might not know. I mean, when it

happens to me, I have no GI symptoms. I just get crushing chest pain,

it's hard to breathe, I feel light headed, and the pain radiates up into

my jaw and neck. I don't get nauseated. I don't get " sour stomach " . The

only reason I know it's GERD and esophageal spasm is because we checked

everything out and ruled out the heart stuff.

> I was just informed that the DR. said " to go to the ER " when I told

> them it happened last night. This is the 3rd time since this summer

> that I try to get the Dr on the phone and she just won't! Is this

> normal?? Twice when I was at the Dr. she took off to take care of an

> emergency, billed me for the full half-hour when I was barely seen for

> 5 mn!

Sounds normal enough, unfortunately. You might just need to find a new

physician. As healthy and as naturally as I try to do things, there is

still a place for doctors too.

> For the record, I havent' even had breakfast at it's past 4PM where I

> am. Just afraid to eat anything. I think maybe I'll have liver but

> staying away from fats and eggs until I can figure this out.

Oh... One more thing. Gall bladder problems can present like that too,

and they can be made worse by fat (for some people). Fat never made my

gall bladder problems worse, but I know it can happen. Again, it's an odd

presentation, but that's how things would happen for me when I got gall

bladder attacks.

Even IF a person has a heart attack while eating this way, knowing what I

know from so many sources, I just can't believe that healthy fats and

unprocessed foods have anything to do with it. What'd be more likely is

all the years of unhealthy eating that we did in the past -- unhealthy

fats and oils, transfat, and processed foods. I wish people understood

the dangers of man-made transfats. Even something as small as a teaspoon

a day can increase your risk of cardiac event by like 70%. They're BAD

stuff!

Let us know how things go...

in IN

[Guest guest]

>

> I really need to reevaluate things. At the present time, I have no

> idea what to eat but can no longer continue this high saturated fats

> diet until I am convinced that it wasn't the cause of my symptoms.

Hi

I concur, you should be checked by a Dr. to make sure all is well. I

can understand why you might pin such a scary episode on this diet

given that mainstream thinking is so radically different. However, if

you do any research on heart attacks you'll find that they are not

exclusively related to one's diet. I can understand that you need to

reevaluate what you're doing...I hope you will do that in ALL areas of

your life because it is not *just* diet that contributes to health. As

you well know, it's your whole spirit that's involved. Not just a body

eating a specific diet. Since you understand the energetics of the

body, I would suggest that you also investitgate why you might be

having an issue related to your " heart " at this time. The heart has

deep symbolism and has many things to tell you about your life and

about love, self-love and nurturing. Read up on what Louise Hay has to

say about this.

Since you said you also need to be " convinced " that it wasn't because

of the diet, you'll need to determine what sort of evidence it will

take to convince you that it was NOT the diet at cause. Right now it's

your fear that's in control. A little later, in a few days maybe...

you may be able to gain some perspective in order to do the

reeavaluating that you feel is necessary.

I can assure you that Bee cured herself with this kind of diet and has

had no heart trouble, I've been here for nearly 3 years and am doing

fine...in the time I've been with the group we have not heard of

anyone heaving heart trouble. Anxiety yes, heart palps, yes...but

heart trouble, nope.

In the meantime, do some deep breathing to try to calm yourself... and

surely, eat something! You're body needs the energy.

jackie

[Guest guest]

Thanks . I've never had any GI symptoms, so this comes across as

weird!

I've never eaten transfats, never ate junk or chemicals but probably

vegetable oils. Although the thing is I NEVER experienced any such

symptoms before this diet.

So curious: anyone had any heart problems from eating all these

saturated fats?? Maybe I ate too much. I did cut down from one stick

of butter a day to about half several weeks ago.

I was reading at Bee's site about magnesium.. I still can't take my

magnesium supplement and I stil get twitching eye to a certain degree.

The thing is at this point I'm no longer convinced that saturated

fats/animal fats are healthy and after years of eating " healthy " feel

like a fool for the way I've been eating.

Honestly, I don't know which way is up any longer...

Chris.

[Guest guest]

Thanks so much Jackie!

Believe me I don't want to blame the diet, but you're right fear is in

control now. And I did get the other benefits, so I hope to God the

diet is a healthy one.

Yes, I was examining the heart/spirituality connotations. I was also

watching a very, very, very bad movie last night (nah...it was worse!)

but the DVD didnt' come with heart attack warning! It wasn't horror

(I don't do those!) and it did have my favorite latest hunk in, so it

wasn't the DVD either, LOL!

Well Louise Hay says something about " hardening of the heart " that

must be it! I'm a machine when it comes to heart! I didn't think I

needed one, it only serves to get hurt!

Thanks for the reassurance about Bee and the diet. I need all the

reassurance I can get. I just don't want to be a skinny body who

croaks out of too much fats in her diet! That would be too funny! Well

it's not like my life means that much to myself or anyone else in my

RL, really!

Thanks again.

Chris.

[Guest guest]

>

> Maybe all that fat is irritating your insides??

>

> Andy

Thanks Andy. I don't experience acid reflux. I don't know if the fats

are irritating, doesn't feel that way.

I sure wish I could place it? Maybe a severe magnesium deficiency? I

think I'll try to down some of that disgusting sox's juice mixture

next. Thanks everyone I appreciate all your kind help!

Chris.

[Guest guest]

Hi

I'm very curious - how can you have gone through life and never eaten any

trans-fat? I really do not mean this as a snarky question. I'm totally

amazed that anyone could do that, unless they have some totally health-savvy

parents. So I'm asking out of genuine curiosity. I am in my mid-30's. I

remember when margarine was supposed to be the ultimate new " healthy "

butter. We at tons of it in my family because my parents thought it was the

healthiest for us.

Marla

On 2/7/07, chrisruehl <chrisruehl@...> wrote:

>

>

> I've never eaten transfats, never ate junk or chemicals but probably

> vegetable oils. Although the thing is I NEVER experienced any such

> symptoms before this diet.

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

>

> Well Louise Hay says something about " hardening of the heart " that

> must be it! I'm a machine when it comes to heart! I didn't think I

> needed one, it only serves to get hurt!

I tend to think this is more the issue than the diet Chris. You'd do

well to reflect on this. The heart chakra (energy center) is huge for

women. Take it from someone who has had breast cancer (also a heart

chakra issue) and had to learn the hard way that closing off your

heart does not prevent hurt...that's a lie you're telling yourself.

Closing off the heart only hardens you and you end up hurting yourself

in the process.

Caroline Myss is my best " teacher " on this issue. She is a great

resource for energy medicine and healing. You can read about her at

her website www.myss.com as well as read about the chakras and the

parts of the body they are connected to as well as different illnesses

related to the chakras.

jackie

[Guest guest]

wrote: Well it's not like my life means that much to myself or anyone

else in my

RL, really!

Hey, you need to value yourself more, really you do and talk positive! From

reading your posts, I can see that you have a hilarious sense of humor and I

have really enjoyed reading them. So I value you, especially now when nothing

is funny at all. I am suffering from OCD and depression and your posts and

funnies lift me up when I need it.

I don't know you from anyone, but I value you. Give yourself a break, OK?????

please.

Cary

---------------------------------

Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast

with the Search weather shortcut.

[Guest guest]

Hi

I was just about to make a post on this very topic. I've only been on this

program for only a week and, for the last 2 days, my heart has been beating much

faster. My pulse is much faster than usual. And I also find it much harder

carrying out the same moderate exersizes that I've always been doing (harder to

breathe).

I fear having a heart attack, not only because of this but also because my

father died from one when he was 47, and I'm 35.

The only supplement I'm not taking (from the list) is Vitamin E, as I'm having

trouble finding one that's not soy derived.

how long have you been on this program for? Likewise, I was

vegatarian/part time vegan before going on this program, without having these

symptoms.

Like you I'm not trying to scare anyone off this program. I've had some

good effects also, like losing a bit of weight, and smoother skin. But I feel

the racing heart beat is unusual and don't take it as a good sign (please let me

know if I'm wrong!) and I want to find out why?

Thanks,

Denis

> chrisruehl <chrisruehl@...> wrote:

>

> Last night I had all the symptoms of a heart attack. (Increasing

> pressure in chest area, pain between my shoulder blades, racing heart,

> shortness of breath, inability to breathe, pain...)I refused to call

> 911 (didn't want to get pumped full of drugs or cut open). Instead

> read about it in " Prescription for Nutritional Healing " made a glass

> of vitamin C powder and took some B complex along with extra B12 and

> B6, and some of the recommended supplements that I still have which

> I've proven a invaluable many times, possibly a lifesaver last night,

> namely Alpha Lipoic Acid and IP6. After it passed, I ate what felt

> right, an apple.

>

> I really need to reevaluate things. At the present time, I have no

> idea what to eat but can no longer continue this high saturated fats

> diet until I am convinced that it wasn't the cause of my symptoms. As

> you can well imagine, I am spooked senseless! And I can only imagine

> the conversation between 911 and my roommate, if he hadn't been so

> drunk last night and had called them: " What does she eat? " " A stick of

> butter a day, lard, bacon, eggs, coconut oil.. " " Is that all? " " No she

> also takes fat pills, fish oils and evening primerose oils, plus she

> eats all the fat in red meat and cooks everything in coconut oil... "

> They would have had me committed under suspicion of suicidal

> tendencies by dietary fat!

>

> The truth is when I became vegetarian I did so because I thought those

> foods were healthy. All I knew is what I read. And when I started this

> diet, I did so because I believed it was healthy. From stuff I've read

> here and at Weston A. Price, but I take it at face value, I don't know

> if what's printed is right or wrong! At the present, I have no idea

> what the truth is. I do know that my body got slender from stopping

> grains, got leaner and harder from VCO and bacon, and my hair got

> softer from adding butter to my diet. I also know that everyone claims

> that sat. fats kill. And last night it appeared that way to me.

>

> I don't mean to spook anyone if this diet is really healthy, at the

> same time I have to be honest with what happened. Maybe I should go

> back to getting sodium EDTA IV's are those are supposed to heal the

> heart, remove heart plaque etc...

>

> If anyone else here has ever experienced the same symptoms while on

> this diet, please email me! If anyone has any idea what it could be

> other than a heart attack, please let me know. I am open to all input.

> I've experienced racing heart about once a year, prior to being on

> this diet, but never all the symptoms that led me to believe it was a

> heart attack. (I once talked to someone who had a heart attack and he

> said he had one while walking thru the airport. I said what happened

> to you? He said " nothing, I just kept walking " . So apparently a heart

> attack can be mild or severe and is not like what I know from movies,

> old guy holding heart, making a weird sound and croaking face down in

> his plate of soup.)

>

> Sorry for the bad news, and sorry for long post but I had to share. I

> hope someone will have some valid input.

> Thanks,

> Chris.

[Guest guest]

I was just about to make a post on this very topic. I've only been on

this program for only a week and, for the last 2 days, my heart has

been beating much faster. My pulse is much faster than usual. And I

also find it much harder carrying out the same moderate exersizes that

I've always been doing (harder to breathe).

>

Hi Denis,

May I ask that you please trim your posts? Thanks!

A racing heart or heart palpitations are common die off symptoms and

also a signal of adrenal fatigue or thyroid issues. We've talked about

it here many times. Maybe do a message archive search for more info.

You can also read this article on Bee's website regarding adrenals:

http://www.healingnaturallybybee.com/articles/treat19.php

or this one, regarding die off/healing symptoms;

http://www.healingnaturallybybee.com/articles/help1.php

hope that helps,

jackie

[Guest guest]

> Thanks . I've never had any GI symptoms, so this comes across as

> weird!

It's not weird at all. Yeast lives in your gut, so it wouldn't be unheard

of to have GERD issues associated with die-off. If it ever happens again,

you could always try sipping some lemon juice and water in case it was

GERD related and you didn't have enough stomach acid. (I have GERD and

too MUCH stomach acid, so lemon juice makes it worse, but baking soda

water makes it better.)

> So curious: anyone had any heart problems from eating all these

> saturated fats??

Personally, my blood pressure is much better when I eat this way, and my

lipid profile is much better when I eat this way. Makes perfect sense to

me, so I don't worry.

> I was reading at Bee's site about magnesium.. I still can't take my

> magnesium supplement and I stil get twitching eye to a certain degree.

> The thing is at this point I'm no longer convinced that saturated

> fats/animal fats are healthy and after years of eating " healthy " feel

> like a fool for the way I've been eating.

Well, I'm not even sure what to say to that. You have to do what you

think is best, but the rest of us here believe in this kind of eating for

healthy living. If you want to follow the mainstream, then I suppose

that's fine. I am quite comfortable with my decision to eat the way I do

though, and the health benefits for me speak for themselves.

in IN

[Guest guest]

> Thanks Andy. I don't experience acid reflux. I don't know if the fats

> are irritating, doesn't feel that way.

I'll stop beating a dead horse here after I say one more thing. MANY

people go to ER with symptoms of heart attack and it turns out to be

reflux. The symptoms are strikingly similar, and when it's happening to

you, there's no way to know which it is. It doesn't have to be the " heart

burn " that some people talk about. Like I said, for me, it's never that

way. It's crushing pain, light headedness, feeling faint, very rapid

heart rate (which isn't a symptom of heart attack, actually), and pain

that travels up into my neck, jaw, and shoulder. Every time I have one of

these attacks, my husband is worried I'm having a heart attack. I hope I

never have one, because there's no way I'm going to get checked out every

time I have one of these attacks. I wouldn't know the difference between

the two though, and for me, the normal heart burn feeling and stomach

upset that some people experience or think of as " acid reflux " just aren't

there. I don't have any burping or stomach troubles.

OK... I'll really let the dead horse lie now.

in IN

[Guest guest]

> I'm very curious - how can you have gone through life and never eaten any

> trans-fat? I really do not mean this as a snarky question. I'm totally

> amazed that anyone could do that, unless they have some totally health-savvy

> parents. So I'm asking out of genuine curiosity. I am in my mid-30's. I

> remember when margarine was supposed to be the ultimate new " healthy "

> butter. We at tons of it in my family because my parents thought it was the

> healthiest for us.

*nod* Between all the margerine and Jif peanut butter I ate growing up,

I'm sure my arteries are just clogged with that awful stuff!

in IN

[Guest guest]

Thanks Jackie,

The only reason I brought this up was because I didn't think of a racing

heartbeat as part of a (allergy-like symptom) healing reaction you'd expect to

get from this program.

I've never had this allergy symptom in my life (and I've had many!).

Thanks for the links and for putting my mind at ease.

Denis

[Guest guest]

Hi , I experience these same feelings when my GERD attacks hit.

How would I really know if it really is different this time. My

doctor once asked me how I could tell if it wasn't a heart attack and

my response was " I don't drop dead " . I also have to have some faith

to let it run its course without going into a panic when it does

happen.

Andy

>

> > Thanks Andy. I don't experience acid reflux. I don't know if the

fats

> > are irritating, doesn't feel that way.

>

> I'll stop beating a dead horse here after I say one more thing.

MANY

> people go to ER with symptoms of heart attack and it turns out to

be

> reflux. The symptoms are strikingly similar, and when it's

happening to

> you, there's no way to know which it is. It doesn't have to be

the " heart

> burn " that some people talk about. Like I said, for me, it's never

that

> way. It's crushing pain, light headedness, feeling faint, very

rapid

> heart rate (which isn't a symptom of heart attack, actually), and

pain

> that travels up into my neck, jaw, and shoulder. Every time I have

one of

> these attacks, my husband is worried I'm having a heart attack. I

hope I

> never have one, because there's no way I'm going to get checked out

every

> time I have one of these attacks. I wouldn't know the difference

between

> the two though, and for me, the normal heart burn feeling and

stomach

> upset that some people experience or think of as " acid reflux " just

aren't

> there. I don't have any burping or stomach troubles.

>

> OK... I'll really let the dead horse lie now.

>

> in IN

>

[Guest guest]

> Hi , I experience these same feelings when my GERD attacks hit.

> How would I really know if it really is different this time. My

> doctor once asked me how I could tell if it wasn't a heart attack and

> my response was " I don't drop dead " . I also have to have some faith

> to let it run its course without going into a panic when it does

> happen.

>

> Andy

*nod* And the panic can make things worse. *sigh*

For me, the easiest way to get one of those attacks is to eat wheat. When

I'm strictly following my eating plan, luckily I don't have any trouble.

But eat some grain, particularly wheat, and BOY am I in a world of hurt.

I never made the connection between the attacks and wheat 'til after my

son was born. When I ate wheat, I had the attacks, and my baby would

break out in a rash on his body. (He was breast-feeding.) When I didn't

eat wheat, I was pain-free, and my baby didn't get the ugly rash.

You'd think as painful and scary as those episodes are that I'd stay away

from the stuff. *sigh* That's one of the problems with being a food

addict. The pull is so strong. I'd never wish it on anybody.

in IN

[Guest guest]

I had a lot of heart racing, temperature fluctuations, all kinds of

things going onon the diet while my body was trying to find some kind

of balance. It's finally more manageable now.

I've done a lot of things to try and improve my health over the years,

and I can tell you this is the best thing I've ever done, it's the

most helpful - I had to get through some pretty rough spots, but that

was because I was so ill.

If you think fats were the problem, then maybe you were having too

many too soon. Your body has to adjust to having them. After this has

settled down, how about taking only what you're comfortable with, but

pay attention to how much, then only increase by something manageable

like 1 TBSP per day, and increase it by another one after a few days

or whenever you're more comfortable.

Elyse

[Guest guest]

I forgot to ask, have you read the article on Priming your Gall

Bladder so you can handle more fats?

Elyse