Re: Re: Benefits of Kefir / How to Make It

[Guest guest]

>

>

> > > An alternative to kefir is sour cabbage.

>

> would that be like kimchee or sauerkraut (home made not with white

> vinegar)? also, where does organic apple cider vinegar (with the

> mother) stand? I know ACV can help in a number of ways including

> alkalizing, but does it aid with intestinal flora as well?

>

> Deborah

Sauerkraut for sure; it must be inoculated or left to stand (the

chance method), fermented and later used, not heated before serving.

ACV does not aid intestinal flora; the little you'd use will be

neutralized in the alkalai environment of the duodenum.

Duncan

[Guest guest]

> >

> > would that be like kimchee or sauerkraut (home made not with white

> > vinegar)? also, where does organic apple cider vinegar (with the

> > mother) stand? I know ACV can help in a number of ways including

> > alkalizing, but does it aid with intestinal flora as well?

> >

> > Deborah

>

> Sauerkraut for sure; it must be inoculated or left to stand (the

> chance method), fermented and later used, not heated before serving.

I have been making sauerkraut for twenty years with my own organically grown

cabbages using the " chance "

method Duncan. Seems that's the way it's mostly been done since people started

fermenting cabbage too. : -)

I make it in jars with dill, garlic, onions, etc. I eat it raw every day. I made

about 250 litres last year.

I have 400 cabbages started to set out for this season.

An innoculant isn't in any way neccesary if you have a good fresh quality of

cabbage that has been grown on healthy soil.

The bacteria naturally present on the leaf surfaces are just the ones needed to

get a good vigorous lactic acid fermentation

underway.

Btw, what would you suggest to use as the proposed innoculant?

I haven't tried kefir whey as yet I've only had grains for a few months.

I will experiment with kefir whey this year.

Regards, Bruce

[Guest guest]

> >

> > While both kefir and yogurt are cultured milk products, they contain

> > different types of beneficial bacteria. Yogurt contains transient

> > beneficial bacteria that keep the digestive system clean and provide

> > food for the friendly bacteria that already are present. Kefir

> > actually colonizes the intestinal tract -- a feat that yogurt cannot

> > match.

>

> The above is a blatantly false statement from a kefir enthusiast; no

> hair-splitting here.

Yes, without a doubt.

I have seen this statement with the same wording on a couple of web pages.

It is about the exact opposite of what is indicated in the scientific knowledge.

Kefir species are supposedly not resident ones.

>

> Yogurt contains bifidobacteria, lactobacilli, and ONE transient (s.

> thermophilus). Bifidobacteria and lactobacilli are in fact THE KEY

> probiotic bacteria in your bowel, and yogurt helps to colonize the

> intestinal tract.

The bulgaricus lactobacillus is transient as well is it not?

Acidophilus lactobacillus has become widely used in yogurt but surely

bifidobacteria species are still not commonly used in

commercial yogurt culture.

The two bacteria required in a cultured milk product to be able to label it as

yogurt in the US are Streptococcus thermophilus and

Lactobacillus bulgaricus.

These are the only bacteria species found in yogurt historically as well I

believe.

http://www.cascadefresh.com/cultures.html

I believe that dairy cultures are a very valuable adjunct to a healthy diet and

that the best way to introduce probiotic species

into the gut is with a living culture still in it's culture medium. The bacteria

survive and grow better this way than when taken as

a capsule of freeze dried bacteria, imo. The number of active bacteria in a

fresh culture also greatly exceeds the viable number in

commercial capsules.

Cultured milk products are without doubt one of the healthiest and most

nutritious foods you can eat.

I also think that the best thing is to make your own fresh cultures at home

yourself.

Regards, Bruce

[Guest guest]

Even before reading this, I guess I was confused over the differences pro/con between the two. Now, I'm even more confused. Bottom line I assume that they do different things, but that both do some good? Is what would be a better choice of something to try dependent on ones gut situation they are dealing with? I really need to get cultured foods in my daughters diet, and understand home made is the way to go to get the most nutritional value. I actually tried kefir, but think I did something wrong. I'm fearful of cooking so when I botch something up it's like a mental setback. I really want to try yogurt. Since my daughter is dairy sensitive, I'm going to try it with goat milk. Am even going to be bold enough and go to a neighbor's house down the street and see if they would be willing to let me buy some milk from their goat! I've just herd that raw makes such a difference, and the stores only sell pasteurized goat milk in CA.

Thanks,

Kari

Re: Re: Benefits of Kefir / How to Make It

> >> > While both kefir and yogurt are cultured milk products, they contain> > different types of beneficial bacteria. Yogurt contains transient> > beneficial bacteria that keep the digestive system clean and provide> > food for the friendly bacteria that already are present. Kefir> > actually colonizes the intestinal tract -- a feat that yogurt cannot> > match.>> The above is a blatantly false statement from a kefir enthusiast; no> hair-splitting here.Yes, without a doubt.I have seen this statement with the same wording on a couple of web pages.It is about the exact opposite of what is indicated in the scientific knowledge.Kefir species are supposedly not resident ones.>> Yogurt contains bifidobacteria, lactobacilli, and ONE transient (s.> thermophilus). Bifidobacteria and lactobacilli are in fact THE KEY> probiotic bacteria in your bowel, and yogurt helps to colonize the> intestinal tract.The bulgaricus lactobacillus is transient as well is it not?Acidophilus lactobacillus has become widely used in yogurt but surely bifidobacteria species are still not commonly used incommercial yogurt culture.The two bacteria required in a cultured milk product to be able to label it as yogurt in the US are Streptococcus thermophilus andLactobacillus bulgaricus.These are the only bacteria species found in yogurt historically as well I believe.http://www.cascadefresh.com/cultures.htmlI believe that dairy cultures are a very valuable adjunct to a healthy diet and that the best way to introduce probiotic speciesinto the gut is with a living culture still in it's culture medium. The bacteria survive and grow better this way than when taken asa capsule of freeze dried bacteria, imo. The number of active bacteria in a fresh culture also greatly exceeds the viable number incommercial capsules.Cultured milk products are without doubt one of the healthiest and most nutritious foods you can eat.I also think that the best thing is to make your own fresh cultures at home yourself.Regards, Bruce

[Guest guest]

Hi Bruce

I have a question..

If this is redundant please forgive me...too many e-mails to read,

1. Did you have candida and has this helped to make you well.

In what way has this improved your diet?

Kathy

[Guest guest]

>

>

> I have been making sauerkraut for twenty years with my own organically

> grown cabbages using the " chance " method Duncan. Seems that's the way

> it's mostly been done since people started fermenting cabbage too. :

> -)

Hi Bruce;

My great grandmother and grandmother used the chance method too, but

I think the chance method is not preferred by the people who package

whole sour cabbage commercially for the supermarket.

regards,

Duncan Crow

[Guest guest]

> Btw, what would you suggest to use as the proposed innoculant?

> I haven't tried kefir whey as yet I've only had grains for a few

> months. I will experiment with kefir whey this year.

>

> Regards, Bruce

I understand it's bifidobacteria and lactobacilli strains if done

commercially.

Duncan Crow

[Guest guest]

> > Yogurt contains bifidobacteria, lactobacilli, and ONE transient (s.

> > thermophilus). Bifidobacteria and lactobacilli are in fact THE KEY

> > probiotic bacteria in your bowel, and yogurt helps to colonize the

> > intestinal tract.

>

> The bulgaricus lactobacillus is transient as well is it not?

As far as I know none of the lactobacilli and bifidobacteria strains

are transient. Studies found different specific strains in different

people even in the same family.

>

> Acidophilus lactobacillus has become widely used in yogurt but surely

> bifidobacteria species are still not commonly used in commercial

> yogurt culture.

Bifidobacteria is still widely used. And rightly so, they're the real

workhorses in a bowel culture. They have significant attributes that

lactobacilli do not, and they are the natural dominant bacteria, not

lactobacilli, in older infants and in young children. Anyway,

gastroenterology suggests a diverse culture is better.

>

> The two bacteria required in a cultured milk product to be able to

> label it as yogurt in the US are Streptococcus thermophilus and

> Lactobacillus bulgaricus.

>

> These are the only bacteria species found in yogurt historically as

> well I believe. http://www.cascadefresh.com/cultures.html

>

> I believe that dairy cultures are a very valuable adjunct to a healthy

> diet and that the best way to introduce probiotic species into the gut

> is with a living culture still in it's culture medium. The bacteria

> survive and grow better this way than when taken as a capsule of

> freeze dried bacteria, imo. The number of active bacteria in a fresh

> culture also greatly exceeds the viable number in commercial capsules.

>

> Cultured milk products are without doubt one of the healthiest and

> most nutritious foods you can eat. I also think that the best thing is

> to make your own fresh cultures at home yourself.

Cultured RAW milk that is But without using other natural,

traditional foods, that is foods containing a lot of inulin, you need

a lot of it. When you work out the number of bacteria you might need

to repopulate the lower bowel only if the bowel bacteria was 1/2

wrong, you get about 200 cups of yogurt daily. People want to reverse

illness quickly so they're more inclined to take the concentrated

capsules to seed the culture.

Because the fight is also on the bowel lining, and that requires cell

proliferation, which requires feeding the culture, it still makes

sense to use inulin-containing foods or a little straight inulin.

This is an important but missing component of healthy fare, and these

foods have been used medically for bowel disorders for about 5,000

years. Me, I occasionally eat sour cabbage from the store, but I

prefer to simply use the inulin to grow my own bacterial culture.

regards,

Duncan Crow

[Guest guest]

> I have a question..

>

> 1. Did you have candida and has this helped to make you well.

> In what way has this improved your diet?

>

> Kathy

>

My diet is pretty good.

I eat a lot of vegetable type material.

Fresh from the garden in the summer and fermented vegetables year around.

I freeze lots of veggies too.

Fermented vegetables are a wonderful food, better than cooked or raw either,

imo.

The nutrients in the vegetables become converted into forms that are more

biologically usable by the body and additional vitamins,

enzymes and beneficial compounds are made by the bacteria.

I juice too, lots of carrots and sprouts and seedlings (wheatgrass, buckwheat,

peas, etc.).

I also use supplements like alfalfa tablets and other herbs.

I prefer to use only natural supplements.

I practice food combining as well. The scientific evidence for food combining is

convincing, imo.

Everyone has the candida yeast in their gut naturally and anyone who has used

antibiotics or eaten the standard western diet is

likely to have some degree of over growth of candida.

I thought I might have had a candida problem twenty years ago when I read the

book " The Yeast Connection " .

I also thought I might have had disinsulinism after reading the book " Sugar

Blues " .

I tried to get a glucose tolerance test.

Tried I say because in Canada the doctor decides what tests are necessary.

I couldn't quite convince the doctor of why I had the odd idea that I needed

this test. : -)

I have come to like to tend to focus on health rather than disease.

" The only cure for disease is health " is a favorite quote.

So the answer is I don't know to what degree candida may have affected my health

in the past.

Some of the symptoms people describe I think I may have had at one time.

Now my health is pretty good but I have given up pretty well all " normal "

western foods.

I do like to cook and I don't get too bored with my food.

I try to eat simply and not to excess.

I believe in the adage " Let your food be your medicine " .

Regards, Bruce

[Guest guest]

Um...just a small point, that was Duncan that wrote this.

I'm a fan of kefir actually. : -)

> --- Bruce Stordock <stordock@...> wrote:

> > >

> > > Yogurt contains bifidobacteria, lactobacilli,

> > and ONE transient (s.

> > > thermophilus). Bifidobacteria and

> > lactobacilli are in fact THE KEY

> > > probiotic bacteria in your bowel, and yogurt

> > helps to colonize the

> > > intestinal tract.

>

>