Guest guest Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 Are you suggesting the following the common " candida diet " (which seems to be more or less the diet suggested by SCD with variations all over the web) is not an advisable plan of action? Because it seems like no matter where I look, whether it be for candida, leaky gut, food sensitivities, or even autism, similar dietary advice is given. If so, I am interested in hearing what you think is a " healthy " diet plan. If you are just talking about complete reliance and trust on one source, I can agree with you there. In the past year, I have spent countless hours reading completely contradicting approaches to similar health goals and have found I have to decide for myself with as many view points as I can get. Greg > > In my own opinion, sticking to a " diet " is sticking to a dogma. > > Dogma is a demonstratably a bad thing; fo example, dogma > seriously undermines both the Dr. protocol, which entirely > misses out on bowel health, and also the Specific Carbohydrate > Diet, which completely ignores bowel health in favour of dogma. > Adherents are similarly following instuctions, to their > detriment. > > The mistakes of both dogmatic approaches are highlighted on my > inulin page: > http://members.shaw.ca/duncancrow/inulin_prebiotic_probiotic.html > > I recommend that everyone instead get up to speed on the science > and then take back the power they had givin to dogmatists and > govern themselves accordingly; indeed, many people on this list > have to follow a very restrictive diet and many can follow a more > relaxed one because their bowel conditions are as individual as > they are. > > Duncan > > > > Posted by: " Patti Cassalia " pcassalia@... patticass > > Date: Wed Sep 27, 2006 5:17 pm (PDT) > > > > If you are really sticking to the diet, any sugar is too much sugar. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 Greg, the SCD being all over the web doesn't make the approach any more sound; there are followers for all manner of things out there. Simply put, SCD allows specific fermentable carbs and disallows fermentable inulin, but the carbs are bad and the inulin fermentation is good. It's wrong enough on those key points alone to perpetuate disease. From my inulin page: http://members.shaw.ca/duncancrow/inulin_prebiotic_probiotic.html What About Elaine Gottschall's Specific Carbohydrate Diet (SCD)? The SCD enshrines a fundamental ignorance of the difference between FOS and inulin fractions and their specific prebiotic attributes. It also promotes the consumption of sugars and other carbohydrates that have been proven to promote bowel dysbiosis and, in the upper intestine, a medical condition called SIBO (Small Intestine Bacterial Overgrowth). By removing PREbiotic food that is already severely deficient in the diet the SCD restricts essential probiotic fermentation, thus Elaine Gottschall's SCD approach carries the danger of increasing inflammatory bowel disease and cancer risk. Proof of aberrant crypt foci and colon polyposis (cancer) increasing in dysbiosis is seen in the research below; however, SCD apologists choose to promote their dogma over ample prebiotic research and 5,000 years of historic practice, to a unsuspecting and trusting population. Beware the agenda sites; think for yourself. My diet is real easy; I leave most of the carbs and most of the omega- 6 oils, use inulin, whey, vitamins, wild fish and coconut oil, and take whatever anti-aging supplements I can afford pursuant to my anti- aging protocol. You'll see my protocol is well-reasoned and well- referenced, it works and I've been right so far All the best, Duncan Crow > > Are you suggesting the following the common " candida diet " (which > seems to be more or less the diet suggested by SCD with variations all > over the web) is not an advisable plan of action? Because it seems > like no matter where I look, whether it be for candida, leaky gut, > food sensitivities, or even autism, similar dietary advice is given. > If so, I am interested in hearing what you think is a " healthy " diet > plan. > If you are just talking about complete reliance and trust on one > source, I can agree with you there. In the past year, I have spent > countless hours reading completely contradicting approaches to similar > health goals and have found I have to decide for myself with as many > view points as I can get. > > Greg > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 Well, I wasn't specifically referring to SCD when I talk about the candida diet. In fact this is the first time I had ever come across the SCD specifically(or I just don't remember seeing it before). I mean, allowing honey while excluding every other sugar doesn't make much sense. But just searching the web, you will find hundreds of sites recommending similar diets for candida, and often they aren't selling anything so I find it hard to link to an agenda. From what I have read in the past few monthes, I have decided to cut out pretty much everything but vegetables(excluding nightshade) and meat with the occasional slice of millet bread or almonds, ginger juice, and lots of raw garlic(I smell horrible). I am avoiding sugar almost completely. " My diet is real easy; I leave most of the carbs and most of the omega- > 6 oils, use inulin, whey, vitamins, wild fish and coconut oil " Are you saying you leave IN or leave OUT most of the carbs and omega 6 oils? Is your diet at all restrictive? What specifically are the foods that the SCD says to cut out and you say should not be cut out? Also, I have reason to believe I have a sensitivity to dairy as many people with intestinal problems do. I used to drink whey all the time until recently when I made this discovery. I know there is a difference between whey and casein sensitivity, but is there a certain brand of whey that will be sure to be PURE whey? Or do EAS 100% whey products work fine? Sorry for the barrage of questions, but it's not often I get to converse with someone who has some answers. Greg > > > > Are you suggesting the following the common " candida diet " (which > > seems to be more or less the diet suggested by SCD with variations > all > > over the web) is not an advisable plan of action? Because it seems > > like no matter where I look, whether it be for candida, leaky gut, > > food sensitivities, or even autism, similar dietary advice is > given. > > If so, I am interested in hearing what you think is a " healthy " diet > > plan. > > If you are just talking about complete reliance and trust on one > > source, I can agree with you there. In the past year, I have spent > > countless hours reading completely contradicting approaches to > similar > > health goals and have found I have to decide for myself with as many > > view points as I can get. > > > > Greg > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2006 Report Share Posted September 29, 2006 Yeah, I agree, allowing some fermentable shot chain sugars and not others doesn't make sense to me either. You can and should have undenatured whey in a toxic situation; it creates the body's most powerful detoxifier and antioxidant, glutathione. Wheys vary and sensitivity varies, but generally, the isolates produce NO reaction, and the concentrates MIGHT but usually do not. I don't know about EAS; I'd have to see the ingredients and description but you got the point that it has to be undenatured. I agree the candida diets are similar; a few differ, and the SCD is noteworthy for that, by going against nature by depopulating the bowel organisms of probiotics by partially starving them, then adding back in purchased probiotics that will essentially remain inactive because they aren't being fed any more. The research is quite clear that the culture must be active to provide the anti-cancer benefits and the control of pathogens, and the proof is in the pudding; people get well in a few months rather than years or not at all. I've helped many people who had tried the SCD method, including candida, colitis Crohn's and IBS patients. I leave OUT most of the carbs and omega-6 oils; we're swamped with them. No, my diet isn't restrictive for me but it might seem so to some people; I don't have candida though, I'm a practitioner. I have potatoes a couple of times a month, rice a couple of times a year, frequently a slice of toast, pasta never, beer frequently, veggies, meat, eggs always, whey nearly every day, coconut cream nearly every day, nuts ad lib etc... I think the SCD avoids fermentation generally, but only really suppresses GOOD fementation by cutting inulin. I know the Healing Crow version of the SCD cuts out inulin and undenatured whey, citing that they are man-made chemicals. Talk about a unsubstantiated suspicion-based approach, given the data, Hoo Boy! Questions are fine, but I'm going out -- chat tomorrow Greg Duncan > > > > Greg, the SCD being all over the web doesn't make the approach any > > more sound; there are followers for all manner of things out there. > > Simply put, SCD allows specific fermentable carbs and disallows > > fermentable inulin, but the carbs are bad and the inulin fermentation > > is good. It's wrong enough on those key points alone to perpetuate > > disease. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2006 Report Share Posted September 30, 2006 So generally you would cut carbs too. How do you feel about vegetables since they obviously have carbs, Especially the sweeter ones, namely carrots? Should more carbs be allowed in as the " terrain " improves from taking inulin? It doesn't seem to make sense that someone with a healthy system would have to completely avoid nature's quicker sources of energy. None of my friends experience noticeable problems from carbs. And I have heard that alot of those African long distance runners eat a diet that is 25% natural sugar. Also, as far as the whey is concerned, how do I know if it is undenatured? Often times it does not say. Even a few of the products you have listed on your site do not specifically say the whey is undenatured. For example, the whey I have says it is made up of " whey protein isolate, whey protein concentrate, and whey peptides. " > > > > > > Greg, the SCD being all over the web doesn't make the approach > any > > > more sound; there are followers for all manner of things out > there. > > > Simply put, SCD allows specific fermentable carbs and disallows > > > fermentable inulin, but the carbs are bad and the inulin > fermentation > > > is good. It's wrong enough on those key points alone to > perpetuate > > > disease. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 1, 2006 Report Share Posted October 1, 2006 So you would agree that carbs should definitely be limited. Two foods that tend to be debated alot on this topic are carrots and brown rice. How do you feel about their consumption in battling candida? And do you think it is necessary to continue a low carb diet from here on out, or is that just your choice as an issue of general health? Also, how can I be sure if a whey product is undenatured? Even some of the whey products you have listed don't explicitly say " undenatured. " For example I have a protein blend that is made up of " whey protein isolates, whey concentrate, and whey peptides, " but it does not specifically make mention of being undenatured. Greg > > Yeah, I agree, allowing some fermentable shot chain sugars and not > others doesn't make sense to me either. > > You can and should have undenatured whey in a toxic situation; it > creates the body's most powerful detoxifier and antioxidant, > glutathione. Wheys vary and sensitivity varies, but generally, the > isolates produce NO reaction, and the concentrates MIGHT but usually > do not. I don't know about EAS; I'd have to see the ingredients and > description but you got the point that it has to be undenatured. > > I agree the candida diets are similar; a few differ, and the SCD is > noteworthy for that, by going against nature by depopulating the > bowel organisms of probiotics by partially starving them, then adding > back in purchased probiotics that will essentially remain inactive > because they aren't being fed any more. The research is quite clear > that the culture must be active to provide the anti-cancer benefits > and the control of pathogens, and the proof is in the pudding; people > get well in a few months rather than years or not at all. I've helped > many people who had tried the SCD method, including candida, colitis > Crohn's and IBS patients. > > I leave OUT most of the carbs and omega-6 oils; we're swamped with > them. No, my diet isn't restrictive for me but it might seem so to > some people; I don't have candida though, I'm a practitioner. I have > potatoes a couple of times a month, rice a couple of times a year, > frequently a slice of toast, pasta never, beer frequently, veggies, > meat, eggs always, whey nearly every day, coconut cream nearly every > day, nuts ad lib etc... > > I think the SCD avoids fermentation generally, but only really > suppresses GOOD fementation by cutting inulin. I know the Healing > Crow version of the SCD cuts out inulin and undenatured whey, citing > that they are man-made chemicals. Talk about a unsubstantiated > suspicion-based approach, given the data, Hoo Boy! > > Questions are fine, but I'm going out -- chat tomorrow Greg > > Duncan > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2006 Report Share Posted October 2, 2006 I've since communicated privately with Greg on this, but yes, once the bowel ecology is fairly good it's also fairly resilient and adding in carbs is OK, just not to the levels that cause disease. We also have diabetes, suppressed HGH ad resulting metabolic syndome and glycation to think about in people without candida. Carbs are still essentially bad in any more than low levels; just realize it and govern yourselves accordingly. It's really a lifestyle thing. Peptides intact, undenatured, low temperature or cold processed is the language to look for when buying whey. Duncan On 3 Oct 2006 at 0:05, candidiasis wrote: > > Posted by: " dreaminginnoother " dreaminginnoother@... > dreaminginnoother Date: Mon Oct 2, 2006 11:12 am (PDT) > > So generally you would cut carbs too. How do you feel about > vegetables since they obviously have carbs, Especially the sweeter > ones, namely carrots? Should more carbs be allowed in as the > " terrain " improves from taking inulin? It doesn't seem to make sense > that someone with a healthy system would have to completely avoid > nature's quicker sources of energy. None of my friends experience > noticeable problems from carbs. And I have heard that alot of those > African long distance runners eat a diet that is 25% natural sugar. > Also, as far as the whey is concerned, how do I know if it is > undenatured? Often times it does not say. Even a few of the products > you have listed on your site do not specifically say the whey is > undenatured. For example, the whey I have says it is made up of " whey > protein isolate, whey protein concentrate, and whey peptides. " > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2006 Report Share Posted October 3, 2006 Duncan you mentioned in one of the posts that you are a practitioner and you only eat rice a couple of times a year, which I found interesting. I am studying Nutritional Medicine in the UK and therapeutically, rice is one of the key foods (in most cases) to eat lots of. I would be interested in your thoughts on this. I am currently writing up a case study on someone who is ridden with candida., Anne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2006 Report Share Posted October 3, 2006 Rice, like whole grains generally, isn't essential for health. Like lots of healthy populations that never traditionally had access to rice, my own diet provides nutrients, fiber, and carbohydrates from other foods. In other words, rice might be a key food in diets that happen to be structured to accomodate this particular carbohydrate source, and a different diet would have different key foods. The diet you are studying might have been written by the rice industry for example, so of course it contains lot of rice; the corn industry would respond by writing a diet that uses corn as a key food, and other produce growers could respond in turn by writing a diet that is high in vegetables and legumes and very low in both of those grains. What specific therapeutic value of rice are you referring to? I think the question to ask is can this therapeutic value be obtained in any other way? It certainly can with respect to the carbs Carbs are fermentable by both good and bad organisms as you know; in a dysbiosis condition the bad organisms have a numeric edge so they ferment them fairly quickly; they ferment the easy carbohydrdates faster than probiotics do even when there is no dysbiosis. But that's not why I don't eat much carbohydrate; I don't have candidiasis or dysbiosis that one would notice. I'm more concerned about controlling my blood sugar and glycation, diabetes, falling tissue pH, rising toxin load, reduced tissue oxygenation, that kind of thing that would result from eating lots of rice or any other carb. Duncan > > Duncan you mentioned in one of the posts that you are a practitioner and you only eat rice a couple of times a year, which I found interesting. I am studying Nutritional Medicine in the UK and therapeutically, rice is one of the key foods (in most cases) to eat lots of. I would be interested in your thoughts on this. I am currently writing up a case study on someone who is ridden with candida., > > Anne > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 On 10/3/06, Duncan Crow <duncancrow@...> wrote: > I'm more concerned about controlling my blood sugar and glycation, > diabetes, falling tissue pH, rising toxin load, reduced tissue > oxygenation, that kind of thing that would result from eating lots of > rice or any other carb. And feeding tumor cells, who eat carbs much faster than normal cells... Chris -- The Truth About Cholesterol Find Out What Your Doctor Isn't Telling You: http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 has made a excellent point particularly useful to some people with a kind of low immune response, or a drug-induced suppressed immune response due to steroids such as cortisone. Cancer can be seen as a immune system issue. Duncan > > > I'm more concerned about controlling my blood sugar and glycation, > > diabetes, falling tissue pH, rising toxin load, reduced tissue > > oxygenation, that kind of thing that would result from eating lots of > > rice or any other carb. > > And feeding tumor cells, who eat carbs much faster than normal cells... > > Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.