Guest guest Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 I believe in the research done by Walt Stoll (www.askwaltstollmd.com) which has led him to conclude that things like vinegar, soy sauce, yeast in bread, mushrooms etc. only actually bother 1-5% of candida sufferers. None of those things has ever bothered me, once I tried them and lost my fear. For example, I eat Ezekial bread which contains no flour but does have some yeast. I ate soy sauce, some vinegar, etc. He is the expert, not me - so I would research it on his website and see what you think. Of course, everyone has to test each food on their own lovely body! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 23, 2006 Report Share Posted September 23, 2006 Vinegar myth and acetaldehyde explanation from a retired researcher of a lot of biological stuff including stem cell research: <snip> Acetaldehyde comes from the breakdown of ethanol, and yeast can either produce ethanol or directly produce acetaldehyde depending on the chemical environment, acetaldehyde also comes from cigarette smoke and auto exhaust. It is one of the most potent neurotoxins and general toxins we're exposed to. Healthy people break it down quickly in smaller doses. When it breaks down, the result is acetate which forms acetic acid or vinegar. Thus, since vinegar is therefore a byproduct of yeast it is likely thought that it promotes yeast. Most vinegar, like most ethanol, kills yeast, which produces both, ironically. There may be some vinegars that have a carbohydrate or sugar component with them and of course those vinegars would be ill advised, but any pure vinegar should help to eliminate, not promote candida. Since vinegar is often produced by candida, some vinegars actually have some candida spores in them, and this is the main basis for telling people to avoid it. I disagree with this because you body will continue to be full of candida even after you eliminate the problem. You do want to remove fuel for candida, but not every single source of it. Beer would still be ill advised, because it has fuel for added fermentation by candida in its carbohydrates. Candida infection only comes with a compromised immune system and / or poor intestinal flora. Cleansing the gut and reinforcing its flora and getting rid of heavy metals and other toxins is the answer. Mega doses of vitamin C are one of the best ways to balance the fight and at the same time stimulate the immune system in the gut. It supplies the +ions necessary to neutralize the -OH ions from infections and radicals formed by toxins like acetaldehyde. I've heard Dr. Cathcart speak several times about curing many, many patients of candida infections with vitamin C in " bowel titration " doses (that amount the just starts to cause diarrhea). This is typically 15 to 50 grams per day taken at 4-5 equal intervals. This is combined with a probiotic and I'm sure that Inulin, a prebiotic would also help. Chelation therapy is helpful if the person's immune system is compromised from heavy metals. I would add Acetyl L Carnitine and R-Alpha Lipoic Acid as well to further stimulate the T-cells' energy, working with the vitamin C, as vitamin C is a strong mediator of cellular (Killer T-Cell) immunity vs. humoral (B-Cell/antibody) immunity. </snip> Brown scotflyr at pacbell net Thank you . Duncan > > > I believe in the research done by Walt Stoll (www.askwaltstollmd.com) which has led him to conclude that things like vinegar, soy sauce, yeast in bread, mushrooms etc. only actually bother 1-5% of candida sufferers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2006 Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 Interesting info, Duncan. I can now see why while someone is healing their gut and trying to kill a candida overgrowth they would want to avoid vinegar (vinegar contains some candida. But then it make sense that once you have everything under control you can safely add it back in. Patti _____ From: candidiasis [mailto:candidiasis ] On Behalf Of Duncan Crow Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2006 9:02 AM candidiasis Subject: Re: vinegar myths etc. Vinegar myth and acetaldehyde explanation from a retired researcher of a lot of biological stuff including stem cell research: <snip> Acetaldehyde comes from the breakdown of ethanol, and yeast can either produce ethanol or directly produce acetaldehyde depending on the chemical environment, acetaldehyde also comes from cigarette smoke and auto exhaust. It is one of the most potent neurotoxins and general toxins we're exposed to. Healthy people break it down quickly in smaller doses. When it breaks down, the result is acetate which forms acetic acid or vinegar. Thus, since vinegar is therefore a byproduct of yeast it is likely thought that it promotes yeast. Most vinegar, like most ethanol, kills yeast, which produces both, ironically. There may be some vinegars that have a carbohydrate or sugar component with them and of course those vinegars would be ill advised, but any pure vinegar should help to eliminate, not promote candida. Since vinegar is often produced by candida, some vinegars actually have some candida spores in them, and this is the main basis for telling people to avoid it. I disagree with this because you body will continue to be full of candida even after you eliminate the problem. You do want to remove fuel for candida, but not every single source of it. Beer would still be ill advised, because it has fuel for added fermentation by candida in its carbohydrates. Candida infection only comes with a compromised immune system and / or poor intestinal flora. Cleansing the gut and reinforcing its flora and getting rid of heavy metals and other toxins is the answer. Mega doses of vitamin C are one of the best ways to balance the fight and at the same time stimulate the immune system in the gut. It supplies the +ions necessary to neutralize the -OH ions from infections and radicals formed by toxins like acetaldehyde. I've heard Dr. Cathcart speak several times about curing many, many patients of candida infections with vitamin C in " bowel titration " doses (that amount the just starts to cause diarrhea). This is typically 15 to 50 grams per day taken at 4-5 equal intervals. This is combined with a probiotic and I'm sure that Inulin, a prebiotic would also help. Chelation therapy is helpful if the person's immune system is compromised from heavy metals. I would add Acetyl L Carnitine and R-Alpha Lipoic Acid as well to further stimulate the T-cells' energy, working with the vitamin C, as vitamin C is a strong mediator of cellular (Killer T-Cell) immunity vs. humoral (B-Cell/antibody) immunity. </snip> Brown scotflyr at pacbell net Thank you . Duncan > > > I believe in the research done by Walt Stoll (www.askwaltstollmd.com) which has led him to conclude that things like vinegar, soy sauce, yeast in bread, mushrooms etc. only actually bother 1-5% of candida sufferers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2006 Report Share Posted September 25, 2006 So far, we haven't found a solid reason for the no vinegar myth. A few candida germs in some cultures of some vinegar isn't reason for avoiding vinegar. As pointed out, the object isn't to get rid of all the candida, that would be following the Pasteur and Big Pharma reasoning that germs " cause " disease; the object is to be a poor host, following the Bechamp reasoning that there will always be a few germs around and their presence doesn't matter unless you are a good host for them to establish themelves. In fact we know now that Bechamp was correct, and the Bechamp reasoning is why I advise people that they need only prebiotics, not probiotics, stating there is practically always a starter culture you only have to feed and nurture. Duncan Crow On 25 Sep 2006 at 12:02, candidiasis wrote: > > Posted by: " Patti Cassalia " pcassalia@... patticass > Date: Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:54 pm (PDT) > > Interesting info, Duncan. I can now see why while someone is healing > their gut and trying to kill a candida overgrowth they would want to > avoid vinegar (vinegar contains some candida. But then it make sense > that once you have everything under control you can safely add it back > in. > > Patti > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2006 Report Share Posted September 25, 2006 Very well put... Duncan Crow <duncancrow@...> wrote: So far, we haven't found a solid reason for the no vinegar myth. A few candida germs in some cultures of some vinegar isn't reason for avoiding vinegar. As pointed out, the object isn't to get rid of all the candida, that would be following the Pasteur and Big Pharma reasoning that germs " cause " disease; the object is to be a poor host, following the Bechamp reasoning that there will always be a few germs around and their presence doesn't matter unless you are a good host for them to establish themelves. In fact we know now that Bechamp was correct, and the Bechamp reasoning is why I advise people that they need only prebiotics, not probiotics, stating there is practically always a starter culture you only have to feed and nurture. Duncan Crow On 25 Sep 2006 at 12:02, candidiasis wrote: > > Posted by: " Patti Cassalia " pcassalia@... patticass > Date: Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:54 pm (PDT) > > Interesting info, Duncan. I can now see why while someone is healing > their gut and trying to kill a candida overgrowth they would want to > avoid vinegar (vinegar contains some candida. But then it make sense > that once you have everything under control you can safely add it back > in. > > Patti > PPD Push the Positive Daily! I hope you and yours are in the best of Health and Spirit. Our Health is Our Responsibility http://a-healing-village.com If you are interested in detox aides, look in to Yuan Qi foot pads: http://www.ghtdirect.com/?ID=A%20Healing%20Village Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2006 Report Share Posted September 25, 2006 I was told that juices, cider, vinegas, etc. often contain the rotten parts of the fruit. That is why we are not supposed to have them. nieema <nieema0@...> wrote: Very well put... Duncan Crow <duncancrow@...> wrote: So far, we haven't found a solid reason for the no vinegar myth. A few candida germs in some cultures of some vinegar isn't reason for avoiding vinegar. As pointed out, the object isn't to get rid of all the candida, that would be following the Pasteur and Big Pharma reasoning that germs " cause " disease; the object is to be a poor host, following the Bechamp reasoning that there will always be a few germs around and their presence doesn't matter unless you are a good host for them to establish themelves. In fact we know now that Bechamp was correct, and the Bechamp reasoning is why I advise people that they need only prebiotics, not probiotics, stating there is practically always a starter culture you only have to feed and nurture. Duncan Crow On 25 Sep 2006 at 12:02, candidiasis wrote: > > Posted by: " Patti Cassalia " pcassalia@... patticass > Date: Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:54 pm (PDT) > > Interesting info, Duncan. I can now see why while someone is healing > their gut and trying to kill a candida overgrowth they would want to > avoid vinegar (vinegar contains some candida. But then it make sense > that once you have everything under control you can safely add it back > in. > > Patti > PPD Push the Positive Daily! I hope you and yours are in the best of Health and Spirit. Our Health is Our Responsibility http://a-healing-village.com If you are interested in detox aides, look in to Yuan Qi foot pads: http://www.ghtdirect.com/?ID=A%20Healing%20Village Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2006 Report Share Posted September 25, 2006 The fact vinegar suppresses rot by other organisms is precisely why many things are fermented before storage, and why probiotics work in the bowel even at a much milder acidity. So, the " rotten parts of the fruit " they are talking about that they claim could be in vinegar is likely to be nothing more than the same amount as if you picked the fruit off the tree and ate it along with microscopic colonies that happened to be on it. It really sounds like a scare or agenda tactic so far doesn't it? An exception might be to those who are have bad multiple chemical sensitivities, but the detox and antioxidant program we do will reduce toxin load and sensitivities in short order anyway. And most vinegar is filtered and particle-free. Duncan Crow > > > > > Posted by: " Patti Cassalia " pcassalia@... patticass > > Date: Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:54 pm (PDT) > > > > Interesting info, Duncan. I can now see why while someone is healing > > their gut and trying to kill a candida overgrowth they would want to > > avoid vinegar (vinegar contains some candida. But then it make sense > > that once you have everything under control you can safely add it back > > in. > > > > Patti > > > > > > > > PPD Push the Positive Daily! > > I hope you and yours are in the best of Health and Spirit. > Our Health is Our Responsibility > > http://a-healing-village.com > > If you are interested in detox aides, look in to Yuan Qi foot pads: > > http://www.ghtdirect.com/?ID=A%20Healing%20Village > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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