RE: Re: diflucan treatment

August 9, 2004

Hi ... Answers inline

> Re: Anyone use either nystatins or

> diflucan?

> > >

> > > Barb

> > >

> > > You are going about it in the wrong way. The point is not to

> > > kill the yeast

> > > (the allopathing symptom suppressing method), it is to

> > > eliminate the tarrain

> > > in which it thrives. Rick and keep repeating it here

> > > time and time

> > > again (thanks guys, your patience is amazing): clean your

> > > liver, clean your

> > > colon, and clean up your life style.

> > >

> > > Your body will heal itself, as long as you provide the right

> > > conditions.

> > >

> > > www.life-enthusiast.com

> > > Anyone use either nystatins or diflucan?

> > >

> > > > Has anyone used either Nystatin or Diflucan? Is

> > > > one more for fungal and the other more for

> > > > yeast????

> > > >

> > > > I think I have something systemic. My doctor

> > > > gave me a one day tablet of Diflucan. I felt

> > > > better, my throat not sore, my eyes not achey,

> > > > etc a few hours after I took tablet yesterday but

> > > > symptoms back today. I'm not such a big baby I

> > > > run to doctor for candida yeast vag infection. I

> > > > didn't know that was what he was doing until I

> > > > read about the one day tablet today. I am mainly

> > > > complainly about a sore throat that I have had

> > > > for almost a year, extreme fatigue, itchy skin

> > > > and ears and yes also vaginal infection which

> > > > tested negative to a bacterial infection so he

> > > > treated me for the later which I was the least

> > > > concerned about.

> > > >

> > > > I find it so hard to be treated seriously.

> > > >

> > >

August 9, 2004

I disagree. Candida albicans is a pathogen and is contagious to others. If

it wasn't infectious it couldn't spread throughout your body. It can be

passed through sexual/intimate contact. This is why a lot of doctors treat

sexual partners of people with candida problems.

I've also read about lab studies of mixing the fungal form and the

non-fungal form. This leads to a conversion of the entire colony to fungal

form. So if you have excess yeast in your body and come into intimate

contact with someone who has the yeast converted into fungus, it is possible

you could contract the fungal form from them (although this is not the only

way it is contagious).

In addition to this, I've read many theories that one can obtain candida

from the mother in the birth canal. If it wasn't infectious these types of

situations couldn't occur.

> Re: diflucan treatment

>

> DJ-

>

> candida is not infectious, it is a natural resident of the human body.

> there are reasons why it grows out of balence, but it has little to

> do with the candida itself.

>

> johng

>

> > Hi ... Answers inline

> >

> > > -----Original Message-----

> > > From: jcgre [mailto:johngrellner@h...]

> > > Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 11:24 AM

> > >

> > >te

> >

> > > its like taking aspirin for repeat headaches, yes the head-ache go

> >

> > I am killing an infection organism in my body WITH my body

> > with the help of diflucan preventing the infectious organism from

> spreading

> > while I live a much healthier lifestyle.

> >

> > > johng

> > >

> > > ---

>

August 9, 2004

To be honest I think all of the messages I've read from you have been harsh

or abrasive. You sound a lot like doctors I've talked to that don't believe

candida was ruining my quality of life.

I understand how you've learned throughout your life by your experiences.

The same happens to everyone. People are different and successful

treatments will differ. No matter what we both say the information we are

providing is subjective and not scientific.

Here is one thing we differ on. I can tell this by your responses to me and

others and the " tone " of your messages.

1). I believe just about anything is possible

2). I believe a poor lifestyle ALONE can lead to candida overrun

3). I think it is possible candida can overrun the body to such a degree

that the body alone can't regain it's territory

4). I believe systemic candidiasis is the cause of a lot of other symptoms

> Re: diflucan treatment

>

> DJ-

>

> looking back on my message, it strikes me that my tone might appear

> harsh, which is not my intention. I just want to point out that,

> while many (most probably) do view candida as an infection that needs

> to be killed, a growing number of people, myself included, take a

> different view. that view is that candida overgrowth is a symptom,

> like a headache, it is not the root cause of the problem. it is a

> result of many other factors, and probably is a back-up mechanism of

> the body to prevent even worse consequences from resulting. in this

> light, attacking the candida misses the real root problem and could

> cause worse problems.

>

> I will not tell you that most people will agree with this analysis,

> but people that I trust do. moreover, I recovered by stopping trying

> to kill candida, and working with my body instead, and I was as sick

> as anyone. so, though you may think it impossible, it may not be for

> you.

>

> If drugs are what you believe you must do, then my opinion is just

> that. in the end, you will find where you need to go through trial

> and error. i just try and add my two cents, because I have

> been there.

>

> johng

>

> > > Hi ... Answers inline

> > >

> > > > -----Original Message-----

> > > > From: jcgre [mailto:johngrellner@h...]

> > > > Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 11:24 AM

> > > >

> > > >te

> > >

> > > > its like taking aspirin for repeat headaches, yes the

> head-ache go

> > >

> > > I am killing an infection organism in my body WITH my body

> > > with the help of diflucan preventing the infectious organism from

> > spreading

> > > while I live a much healthier lifestyle.

> > >

> > > > johng

> > > >

> > > > ---

>

August 9, 2004

I have thought about it. Believe it or not I hold very similar opinions as

you. I've asked your help in the past post on how to find this " underlying

cause " . You didn't respond.

I don't discount the possibility that I may have something else wrong with

me. All I can do is try to make life better by living healthy and making

good decisions in life. I feel so much better now than I have in years, I

have to believe diflucan had something to do with that. Weather or not

there is an underlying cause to me is irrelevant since this is the only path

I know to take. If something changes in my health I may re-evaluate that

statement.

> Re: diflucan treatment

>

> All this is true where the " infected " person is not in the best of

> health either. its just another way to see the problem, no one will

> force you to accept it, its just the way I see it.

>

> think about it, some people die of a virus (or bacteria or yeast),

> others don't even have symptoms though exposed. what is the

> difference in the two individuals?

>

> johng

>

> > > > Hi ... Answers inline

> > > >

> > > > > -----Original Message-----

> > > > > From: jcgre [mailto:johngrellner@h...]

> > > > > Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 11:24 AM

> > > > >

> > > > >te

> > > >

> > > > > its like taking aspirin for repeat headaches, yes the

> head-ache go

> > > >

> > > > I am killing an infection organism in my body WITH my body

> > > > with the help of diflucan preventing the infectious

> organism from

> > > spreading

> > > > while I live a much healthier lifestyle.

> > > >

> > > > > johng

> > > > >

> > > > > ---

> > >

August 9, 2004

Heh, no apologies needed. I'm guessing you were referring to how I felt you

were abrasive not the list of things I believe. I'm definitely not sorry

that I am open minded (list 1-4).

> Re: diflucan treatment

>

> I'm sorry you feel that way DJ. Good luck to you.

>

> johng

>

> > > > > Hi ... Answers inline

> > > > >

> > > > > > -----Original Message-----

> > > > > > From: jcgre [mailto:johngrellner@h...]

> > > > > > Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 11:24 AM

> > > > > >

> > > > > >te

> > > > >

> > > > > > its like taking aspirin for repeat headaches, yes the

> > > head-ache go

> > > > >

> > > > > I am killing an infection organism in my body WITH my body

> > > > > with the help of diflucan preventing the infectious

> organism from

> > > > spreading

> > > > > while I live a much healthier lifestyle.

> > > > >

> > > > > > johng

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ---

> > >

August 9, 2004

,

I understand, I don't have any hard feelings from any of this. Like I said

before we share similar views. I have been anti 'take a pill to cure this

problem' for as long as I can remember.

I am open to any ideas people have, that is why I joined this list and have

shared my experiences.

> Re: diflucan treatment

>

> DJ-

>

> I would not have ignored your post if I saw it, its just that I don't

> check every day and don't always read every message. you know how it

> is. since there are others who share views similar to mine, someone

> usually picks up a question like that.

>

> finding the underlying causes became almost religious for me, and I

> admit, I am now a purist, i won't take as much as an advil now, though

> I have had long prescriptions for sporonix, difulcan and countless

> other drugs. this may not be everyone's calling. I do sincerely hope

> that your obvious strong desire to uncover whatever ails you takes you

> all the way home.

August 9, 2004

DJ,

Hi, I have been reading your chat about Diflucan with and

and the others.

I also have been put on Diflucan by my MD although I was told to take

one pill every 5 days for a 10 day period and that was all. I am seeing

a lessening of the skin rashes that plague me but it is slow for sure.

Now I see that you are taking one pill every day for a few months! Wow,

that seems like alot in comparison. Although my MD does want me on

statin drugs (lipitor) for cholesterol - and Diflucan is not compatible

so I go off the statins for about 20 days while taking the Diflucan for

the middle 10 days.

Well today was day 12 of the 10 day regimine. The rash is about half

better or alittle more than half, but not gone by any means. I don't

know if I should ask for another 10 day treatment back to back, that

means no statins again for another 15 days.

I also have heard about Acidophilus, which is the active yogurt culture,

to be taken internally and at the same time to apply plain yogurt as a

skin cream to the rash.

I have heard about Grapefruit Seed Extract and hear it is pretty harsh

and has side effect.

Just wondering if anyone has any thoughts about the way to go next here.

DJ Tech wrote:

> ,

>

> I understand, I don't have any hard feelings from any of this. Like I

> said

> before we share similar views. I have been anti 'take a pill to cure this

> problem' for as long as I can remember.

>

> I am open to any ideas people have, that is why I joined this list and

> have

> shared my experiences.

>

> > Re: diflucan treatment

> >

> > DJ-

> >

> > I would not have ignored your post if I saw it, its just that I don't

> > check every day and don't always read every message. you know how it

> > is. since there are others who share views similar to mine, someone

> > usually picks up a question like that.

> >

> > finding the underlying causes became almost religious for me, and I

> > admit, I am now a purist, i won't take as much as an advil now, though

> > I have had long prescriptions for sporonix, difulcan and countless

> > other drugs. this may not be everyone's calling. I do sincerely hope

> > that your obvious strong desire to uncover whatever ails you takes you

> > all the way home.

>

August 9, 2004

Hi DJ:

I have to put my two cents worth in here.

I have had candidiasis symptoms for 15 years. And took antifungals on and

off for years. At one point, I had an open ended prescription for Diflucan

from my doctor. I used to pop a few pills every time my symptoms flared

up. And sure, it did the trick - as long as I continued to take it.

But I finally got to the point where my bouts were getting debilitating -

which made me question the very wisdom of taking antifungals. I wasn't

improving - I was getting worse.

I also became aware that long term use is not good for the liver.

So I have to agree with G and others here, that in many cases, candida

is a symptom of something else. I proved that to myself by going on a very

strict anti-candida diet for over six months. No sugar, no wheat, no dairy,

yada, yada. And STILL I got sick. That's when I started researching

possible reasons for candida causing me problems. (In my case, mercury

poisoning seems to be the culprit)

I certainly wish you luck in your quest to get well - as does everyone else

on this site - but the majority of us are not fans of antifungals.

Re: diflucan treatment

> >

> > DJ-

> >

> > I would not have ignored your post if I saw it, its just that I don't

> > check every day and don't always read every message. you know how it

> > is. since there are others who share views similar to mine, someone

> > usually picks up a question like that.

> >

> > finding the underlying causes became almost religious for me, and I

> > admit, I am now a purist, i won't take as much as an advil now, though

> > I have had long prescriptions for sporonix, difulcan and countless

> > other drugs. this may not be everyone's calling. I do sincerely hope

> > that your obvious strong desire to uncover whatever ails you takes you

> > all the way home.

>

August 10, 2004

Hi , my reply is inline.

> Re: Re: diflucan treatment

>

> DJ,

> Hi, I have been reading your chat about Diflucan with

> and

> and the others.

> I also have been put on Diflucan by my MD although I was told to take

> one pill every 5 days for a 10 day period and that was all. I

> am seeing

> a lessening of the skin rashes that plague me but it is slow for sure.

Most MD's will prescribe the one dose pill for vaginal thrush or some other

localized infections. The biggest dose I received before finding my

current doctor was one pill (150mg) every 10 days. This is the standard way

diflucan is prescribed and you'll pay your co pay with each pill.

Keep in mind I've got systemic candidiasis. My digestive system as well as

organs, eyes ect all show signs of infection. This is a very serious

condition and statistics state that 40% of the people with systemic

candidiasis die.

Believe it or not a couple other doctors I seen said I had a clean bill of

health. One doctor did numerous blood tests, most of which came back

normal. He didn't believe I had a candida problem unless I had HIV, cancer,

or some other underlying condition.

> Now I see that you are taking one pill every day for a few

> months! Wow,

> that seems like alot in comparison. Although my MD does want me on

> statin drugs (lipitor) for cholesterol - and Diflucan is not

> compatible

> so I go off the statins for about 20 days while taking the

> Diflucan for

> the middle 10 days.

Please don't take my dosage as an example of what you should take. Other

then the candida problems I have, I think I am a very healthy, positive

person. I think my age and medical history was used to determine my dosage.

For example my mother, who has the same body type as me and has had some

form of candidiasis for 15+ years was given half the dosage as me. She

takes a 100mg pill every other day and it makes her feel ill. I don't have

this side effect at all.

> Well today was day 12 of the 10 day regimine. The rash is about half

> better or alittle more than half, but not gone by any means. I don't

> know if I should ask for another 10 day treatment back to back, that

> means no statins again for another 15 days.

I'm not sure what to say here. How long has this rash been a problem for

you? I'm very against the statin drugs. Do you have any ideas why your

cholesterol is high? This can be a sign of numerous other issues.

> I also have heard about Acidophilus, which is the active

> yogurt culture,

> to be taken internally and at the same time to apply plain

> yogurt as a

> skin cream to the rash.

> I have heard about Grapefruit Seed Extract and hear it is

> pretty harsh

> and has side effect.

Acidophilus is something I used heavily until recently. I've toned down a

bit on my supplement intake to see how my body does without them (1 month

break). I'm taking a single acidophilus pill called Flora-Q (1 billion

organisms) a day now versus the several I was chewing and swallowing

previously (store bought). L. Acidophilus is a natural competitor of

candida. If you have a very serious candida problem acidophilus will do

nothing but feed the strong candida. I think this applies mainly

internally. Do you have any of the digestive symptoms of candidiasis? Do

you have a white coating on your tongue?

> Just wondering if anyone has any thoughts about the way to go

> next here.

>

August 10, 2004

Thanks for the good wishes. I understand why others feel the way they do.

I will keep in touch will the list and we'll see if my decisions on

treatment were appropriate or not. I'm not sure how many others here have

been diagnosed with systemic candidiasis?

So far I think I've done the best thing I could for my mind and body. I

still think I may have some form of CGD. My mother has systemic candidiasis

and my father has had fungal infections on and off (mainly on his nails)

most of his life. Perhaps I've inherited CGD. I will have to get tested to

know for sure.

> Re: Re: diflucan treatment

>

> Hi DJ:

>

> I have to put my two cents worth in here.

>

....clip...

> yada, yada. And STILL I got sick. That's when I started researching

> possible reasons for candida causing me problems. (In my

> case, mercury

> poisoning seems to be the culprit)

>

> I certainly wish you luck in your quest to get well - as does

> everyone else

> on this site - but the majority of us are not fans of antifungals.

August 11, 2004

Did your ND recommend it?

RE: Re: diflucan treatment

Hi ... Answers inline

August 11, 2004

My question is why did I have so many vaginal yeast infections back when I was a

young girl? I think I had them even prior to being sexually active and once I

was sexually active, it used to bring them about even more.

I don't remember having the other symptoms that Candida produces, but who knows,

it was such a long time ago. Now I don't really have the vaginal infections,

but have all the other symptoms LOL go figure.

What about the kids that have Candida problems? Why are they having it at such

a young age if they haven't even had time to build up a whole host of problems?

Thanks

Re: diflucan treatment

DJ-

looking back on my message, it strikes me that my tone might appear

harsh, which is not my intention. I just want to point out that,

while many (most probably) do view candida as an infection that needs

to be killed, a growing number of people, myself included, take a

different view. that view is that candida overgrowth is a symptom,

like a headache, it is not the root cause of the problem. it is a

result of many other factors, and probably is a back-up mechanism of

the body to prevent even worse consequences from resulting. in this

light, attacking the candida misses the real root problem and could

cause worse problems.

I will not tell you that most people will agree with this analysis,

but people that I trust do. moreover, I recovered by stopping trying

to kill candida, and working with my body instead, and I was as sick

as anyone. so, though you may think it impossible, it may not be for

you.

If drugs are what you believe you must do, then my opinion is just

that. in the end, you will find where you need to go through trial

and error. i just try and add my two cents, because I have been there.

johng

August 11, 2004

Are you also referring to athlete's feet which is really how it all starts for

most people? That would make sense & I did read somewhere the other day that

once one person in the house gets Candida, the whole house is apt to get it.

RE: Re: diflucan treatment

I disagree. Candida albicans is a pathogen and is contagious to others. If

it wasn't infectious it couldn't spread throughout your body. It can be

passed through sexual/intimate contact. This is why a lot of doctors treat

sexual partners of people with candida problems.

I've also read about lab studies of mixing the fungal form and the

non-fungal form. This leads to a conversion of the entire colony to fungal

form. So if you have excess yeast in your body and come into intimate

contact with someone who has the yeast converted into fungus, it is possible

you could contract the fungal form from them (although this is not the only

way it is contagious).

In addition to this, I've read many theories that one can obtain candida

from the mother in the birth canal. If it wasn't infectious these types of

situations couldn't occur.

August 11, 2004

I agree b/c what about the person who eats tons of junk & bread every day & they

never have a symptom. LOL I could kill them : )

But now that I've changed my diet, I can't stand the junk. It goes right to my

head or other parts of me, so I'm happy I don't eat like that anymore unless

it's a BBQ or something. I find it harder to deal with the diet in the summer

time b/c of ice cream & such.

Re: diflucan treatment

All this is true where the " infected " person is not in the best of

health either. its just another way to see the problem, no one will

force you to accept it, its just the way I see it.

think about it, some people die of a virus (or bacteria or yeast),

others don't even have symptoms though exposed. what is the

difference in the two individuals?

johng

August 11, 2004

DJ I think what g is trying to say is what all alternative doctors,

therapists etc. say & I also believe that there is always a reason why things

happen. Just to say something happens just b/c isn't good enough. : )

We like to get to the " root " of the problem so we can nip it in the butt or chip

away at it in order to find the " real " problem. That's why we don't like

chemicals that just cover up the symptoms making the patient think everything is

fine & then a few months or years later it comes back again. Is that really

solving the problem?

I totally understand that you are feeling better & you are relieved by that &

you feel that Diflugan has made you feel better & it probably has. I guess the

big question is, what happens when you go off of it?

How much damage is it doing to other parts of you that you are unaware of & is

the candida really gone?

For me the diet hasn't helped this time around, but then again I'm not as

religious about it although I'm much better than I was years ago. My next step

is to try the liver & colon cleanses as recommended & see what happens.

I'm glad you are feeling better b/c at the very least your spirits need to be up

to help your body fight back & I believe that stress is 50% or more of the

problem & people rarely talk about this part in great detail.

I believe STRESS is the #1 killer & society is only NOW talking about it.

Have a good night !

: )

RE: Re: diflucan treatment

I have thought about it. Believe it or not I hold very similar opinions as

you. I've asked your help in the past post on how to find this " underlying

cause " . You didn't respond.

I don't discount the possibility that I may have something else wrong with

me. All I can do is try to make life better by living healthy and making

good decisions in life. I feel so much better now than I have in years, I

have to believe diflucan had something to do with that. Weather or not

there is an underlying cause to me is irrelevant since this is the only path

I know to take. If something changes in my health I may re-evaluate that

statement.

August 11, 2004

Hi Penny,

Are you the one who had all her fillings taken out?

I have a mouth full of them : ( 13 by the age of 13.

It just costs a fortune & I have enough teeth problems as it is.

If you are the one, can you give me a rundown on how quickly you had them taken

out, how soon after did the symptoms cease etc.

Anyone else here have tons of mercury fillings?

Thanks : )

Re: Re: diflucan treatment

Hi DJ:

I have to put my two cents worth in here.

I have had candidiasis symptoms for 15 years. And took antifungals on and

off for years. At one point, I had an open ended prescription for Diflucan

from my doctor. I used to pop a few pills every time my symptoms flared

up. And sure, it did the trick - as long as I continued to take it.

But I finally got to the point where my bouts were getting debilitating -

which made me question the very wisdom of taking antifungals. I wasn't

improving - I was getting worse.

I also became aware that long term use is not good for the liver.

So I have to agree with G and others here, that in many cases, candida

is a symptom of something else. I proved that to myself by going on a very

strict anti-candida diet for over six months. No sugar, no wheat, no dairy,

yada, yada. And STILL I got sick. That's when I started researching

possible reasons for candida causing me problems. (In my case, mercury

poisoning seems to be the culprit)

I certainly wish you luck in your quest to get well - as does everyone else

on this site - but the majority of us are not fans of antifungals.

August 12, 2004

Hi

Why don't you try Aloe Vera. It's a natural

anti-fungal and it will sooth and heal the skin.

I drink it every day and if I have external problems I

simply rub Aloe Vera on.

Wishing you well

McKelvey U.K.

--- Miles <cjtm18@...> wrote:

---------------------------------

DJ,

Hi, I have been reading your chat about Diflucan with

and

and the others.

I also have been put on Diflucan by my MD although I

was told to take

one pill every 5 days for a 10 day period and that was

all. I am seeing

a lessening of the skin rashes that plague me but it

is slow for sure.

=====

McKelvey

Forever Living Products Independent Distributor

___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW

Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.

August 13, 2004

Yes I think athlete's feet falls into that category since it can be caused

by candida.

> Re: Re: diflucan treatment

>

> Are you also referring to athlete's feet which is really how it all starts

> for most people? That would make sense & I did read somewhere the other

> day that once one person in the house gets Candida, the whole house is apt

> to get it.

>

> RE: Re: diflucan treatment

>

> I disagree. Candida albicans is a pathogen and is contagious to others.

> If

> it wasn't infectious it couldn't spread throughout your body. It can be

> passed through sexual/intimate contact. This is why a lot of doctors

> treat

> sexual partners of people with candida problems.

>

> I've also read about lab studies of mixing the fungal form and the

> non-fungal form. This leads to a conversion of the entire colony to

> fungal

> form. So if you have excess yeast in your body and come into intimate

> contact with someone who has the yeast converted into fungus, it is

> possible

> you could contract the fungal form from them (although this is not the

> only

> way it is contagious).

>

> In addition to this, I've read many theories that one can obtain candida

> from the mother in the birth canal. If it wasn't infectious these types

> of

> situations couldn't occur.

>

August 13, 2004

Hi ,

I'm not sure what you were asking about here, you didn't quote a whole lot

> Re: Re: diflucan treatment

>

> Did your ND recommend it?

>

> RE: Re: diflucan treatment

>

> Hi ... Answers inline

>

August 13, 2004

I think it is possible to have candida since birth. Vaginal yeast

infections don't have to be candida related, there can be other causes.

Usually a vaginal yeast infection is a sign of candida in the gut and is

overflowing to the vagina.

> Re: Re: diflucan treatment

>

> My question is why did I have so many vaginal yeast infections back when I

> was a young girl? I think I had them even prior to being sexually active

> and once I was sexually active, it used to bring them about even more.

>

> I don't remember having the other symptoms that Candida produces, but who

> knows, it was such a long time ago. Now I don't really have the vaginal

> infections, but have all the other symptoms LOL go figure.

>

> What about the kids that have Candida problems? Why are they having it at

> such a young age if they haven't even had time to build up a whole host of

> problems?

>

> Thanks