(No subject)

[Guest guest]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8025931.stm

 

Antibiotics have nothing to do with flu,

which is a virus and can't be caused or

cured with antibiotics.

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

From: Gracia <circe@...>

Subject: (no subject)

HypothyroidManagement , hypothyroidism

Date: Thursday, April 30, 2009, 8:39 AM

this is a link to a substantial report on case zero - and it is all of

agribusiness style of production and use of antibiotics that is questioned.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8024162.stm

<http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8024162.stm>

informative

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Ladies, here's some food for thought: Consider the fact that we quit using

DDT on our fields as it killed our birds BUT last I heard we still make it

here in the US and sell it to Mexico where they grow a lot of the produce we

buy back from them. Is it any wonder why everyone's immune system is

severely compromised?

[Guest guest]

I would think it's " ground zero " for " case one " . Case zero to me

doesn't compute.

..

..

>

> Posted by: " Gracia " circe@...

> <mailto:circe@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%28no%20subject%29>

> graciabee <graciabee>

>

>

> Thu Apr 30, 2009 8:40 am (PDT)

>

>

>

> this is a link to a substantial report on case zero - and it is all of

> agribusiness style of production and use of antibiotics that is

> questioned.

> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8024162.stm

> <http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8024162.stm>

> <http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8024162.stm

> <http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8024162.stm>>

> informative

[Guest guest]

If I may be permitted to ignore your gender discrimination I'd like to

suggest that I read that DDT use in Mexico was eliminated in 2000 or

2001. Is that not correct? I'm sure there must still be residues though.

In any event, I seem to have a robust immune system, as I heal very fast

from cuts and scrapes. I also normally also get over a cold typically

in about 3 days, while my wife [who is very healthy food conscious]

complains that I will then give it to her and it takes her 3 weeks to

get over it. However, in March I did get a cold that gave my symptoms

for at least a week; very unusual for me.

My wife has a fit when I buy fruit at the grocery store that came from

God only knows where and I eat it without washing it...YMMV.

..

..

>

> Posted by: " Banta " healthreflection@...

>

<mailto:healthreflection@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20%28no%20subject%29>

> ieatafa4 <ieatafa4>

>

>

> Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:52 am (PDT)

>

>

>

> Ladies, here's some food for thought: Consider the fact that we quit using

> DDT on our fields as it killed our birds BUT last I heard we still make it

> here in the US and sell it to Mexico where they grow a lot of the

> produce we

> buy back from them. Is it any wonder why everyone's immune system is

> severely compromised?

[Guest guest]

So called " authorities " have come up with all kinds of reasons

why people get sick. To me there is only one reason, greed!

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

From: Banta <healthreflection@...>

Subject: RE: (no subject)

hypothyroidism

Date: Thursday, April 30, 2009, 9:51 AM

Ladies, here's some food for thought: Consider the fact that we quit using

DDT on our fields as it killed our birds BUT last I heard we still make it

here in the US and sell it to Mexico where they grow a lot of the produce we

buy back from them. Is it any wonder why everyone's immune system is

severely compromised?

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Nowadays, that is a dangerous practice with what's going on. I used to do that,

but no

more.

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

From: <res075oh@...>

Subject: Re: (no subject)

hypothyroidism

Date: Thursday, April 30, 2009, 12:22 PM

If I may be permitted to ignore your gender discrimination I'd like to

suggest that I read that DDT use in Mexico was eliminated in 2000 or

2001.  Is that not correct?  I'm sure there must still be residues though.

In any event, I seem to have a robust immune system, as I heal very fast

from cuts and scrapes.  I also normally also get over a cold typically

in about 3 days, while my wife [who is very healthy food conscious]

complains that I will then give it to her and it takes her 3 weeks to

get over it.  However, in March I did get a cold that gave my symptoms

for at least a week; very unusual for me.

My wife has a fit when I buy fruit at the grocery store that came from

God only knows where and I eat it without washing it...YMMV.

..

..

>

>       Posted by: " Banta " healthreflection@...

>   

   <mailto:healthreflection@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20%28no%20subject%29>

>         ieatafa4 <ieatafa4>

>

>

>         Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:52 am (PDT)

>

>

>

> Ladies, here's some food for thought: Consider the fact that we quit using

> DDT on our fields as it killed our birds BUT last I heard we still make it

> here in the US and sell it to Mexico where they grow a lot of the

> produce we

> buy back from them. Is it any wonder why everyone's immune system is

> severely compromised?

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

This list is about hypothyroidism but we sometimes go far afield. In

this particular case someone posted that one could heal hypothyroidism

with religion. That is the kind of unsupported claim that is likely to

elicit responses pointing out the lack of support; just as some/many of

us do for a lot of unsupported or hoax ideas. I can't see that debating

what will or what won't work as a cure is off topic; but much of the

discussion has gone beyond that. If you're use to lists where the

moderator rigidly enforces strict adherence to 100% on topic messages

you may find this list strange. Some of us have been around a long time

and feud and fuss like family.

Regards,

..

..

>

> Posted by: " Vicki LaPinta " vlapinta@...

> <mailto:vlapinta@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%28no%20subject%29>

> vickilapinta <vickilapinta>

>

>

> Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:06 am (PDT)

>

>

>

> Isn't this group about hypothyroidism? Why is Religion even discussed

> here?

> Everyone has their own beliefs, and the minute religion is discussed

> this is

> what happens.

> I think it is best to stick to the topic.

> Kindest Regards,

> Vicki

[Guest guest]

And is the crazy uncle you'll have to just pray for like I do : )

CW

-- Re:(no subject)

This list is about hypothyroidism but we sometimes go far afield. In

this particular case someone posted that one could heal hypothyroidism

with religion. That is the kind of unsupported claim that is likely to

elicit responses pointing out the lack of support; just as some/many of

us do for a lot of unsupported or hoax ideas. I can't see that debating

what will or what won't work as a cure is off topic; but much of the

discussion has gone beyond that. If you're use to lists where the

moderator rigidly enforces strict adherence to 100% on topic messages

you may find this list strange. Some of us have been around a long time

and feud and fuss like family.

Regards,

..

..

>

> Posted by: " Vicki LaPinta " vlapinta@...

> <mailto:vlapinta@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%28no%20subject%29>

> vickilapinta <vickilapinta>

>

>

> Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:06 am (PDT)

>

>

>

> Isn't this group about hypothyroidism? Why is Religion even discussed

> here?

> Everyone has their own beliefs, and the minute religion is discussed

> this is

> what happens.

> I think it is best to stick to the topic.

> Kindest Regards,

> Vicki

[Guest guest]

Roni, I don't know what to tell you. You can't typically " fix " a

malfunctioning thyroid; you have to supplement with medication to

compensate for its lack of production. You HAVE to have a doctor that

will listen to you. I just cannot see RT3 not being relevant in your

case; but I'm massively ignorant re: same.

It is so painful to see someone hurting and know of no way to help...

Heartfelt best,

..

..

>

> Posted by: " Roni Molin " matchermaam@...

> <mailto:matchermaam@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%28no%20subject%29>

matchermaam

> <matchermaam>

>

>

> Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:53 pm (PST)

>

>

>

> The more I read, the more upset I get. I've lost more than half my

> hair. This

> is new endo had me reduce the 50 mcg of=A0 T3 I was taking to 25 mcg

> and now

> added T4. I'm supposed to start with 1/2 of 75 mcg for a few days

> then in-

> crease to 75. He said this process to " fix " my thyroid would take at

> least 7

> to 8 months.

>

> When I asked him about the hair, he said that I might lose a bit but

> it would come back. Now I just read on the thread about swollen hands

> and feet that it's low T3, which he just lowered again. After he lowered

> dmy T3 I was tested Monday and my FT3 was 2.5,

> FT4 0.2. I've had a headache for about a month (same time frame that I

> was

> lowering the T3), and my heartburn and stomach has become much worse.I

> live in Kirkland, WA. Does ANYONE know a doctor in my areas who is willing

> to dose according to how a patient feels and not just blood tests?

>

> This doctor I'm currently seeing is Murray who supposedly is very

> good. He seems nice enough but is very rushed and I get about 5 to 10

> minutes

> with him. He says RT3 is not relevant.

>

> <>Roni

[Guest guest]

Thanks, . I'm very upset right now.

<>Roni

Immortality exists!

It's called knowledge!

 

Just because something isn't seen

doesn't mean it's not there<>

From: <res075oh@...>

Subject: Re:(no subject)

hypothyroidism

Date: Friday, March 12, 2010, 7:12 AM

Roni, I don't know what to tell you.  You can't typically " fix " a

malfunctioning thyroid; you have to supplement with medication to

compensate for its lack of production.  You HAVE to have a doctor that

will listen to you.  I just cannot see RT3 not being relevant in your

case; but I'm massively ignorant re: same.

It is so painful to see someone hurting and know of no way to help...

Heartfelt best,

..

..

>

>       Posted by: " Roni Molin " matchermaam@...

>       <mailto:matchermaam@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%28no%20subject%29>

matchermaam

>       <matchermaam>

>

>

>         Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:53 pm (PST)

>

>

>

> The more I read, the more upset I get. I've lost more than half my

> hair. This

> is new endo had me reduce the 50 mcg of=A0 T3 I was taking to 25 mcg

> and now

>  added T4. I'm supposed to start with 1/2 of 75 mcg for a few days

> then in-

> crease to 75. He said this process to " fix " my thyroid would take at

> least 7

> to 8 months.

>

> When I asked him about the hair, he said that I might lose a bit but

> it would come back. Now I just read on the thread about swollen hands

>  and feet that it's low T3, which he just lowered again. After he lowered

> dmy T3 I was tested Monday and my FT3 was 2.5,

> FT4 0.2. I've had a headache for about a month (same time frame that I

> was

> lowering the T3), and my heartburn and stomach has become much worse.I

> live in Kirkland, WA. Does ANYONE know a doctor in my areas who is willing

>  to dose according to how a patient feels and not just blood tests?

>

> This doctor I'm currently seeing is Murray who supposedly is very

> good. He seems nice enough but is very rushed and I get about 5 to 10

> minutes

> with him. He says RT3 is not relevant.

>

> <>Roni

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Thyroid-info.com has a list of what they consider to be the top thyroid drs and

are divided up by state. One listed for your state and city is

www.drjonathancollin.com there are others however they are in different cities

and I do not know what cities you are close to so you may want to check it out.

And yes while some of these drs may be PCP and not Endo, I have found they know

more about thyroid issues than some Endos do, some maybe this way because of

their own experience and wanting to know more about the thyroid because of their

conditions as with some of the ones in my area. I hope you find the right

treatment for you.

>

> Roni, I don't know what to tell you. You can't typically " fix " a

> malfunctioning thyroid; you have to supplement with medication to

> compensate for its lack of production. You HAVE to have a doctor that

> will listen to you. I just cannot see RT3 not being relevant in your

> case; but I'm massively ignorant re: same.

>

> It is so painful to see someone hurting and know of no way to help...

>

> Heartfelt best,

>

> .

> .

>

> >

> > Posted by: " Roni Molin " matchermaam@...

> > <mailto:matchermaam@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%28no%20subject%29>

matchermaam

> > <matchermaam>

> >

> >

> > Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:53 pm (PST)

> >

> >

> >

> > The more I read, the more upset I get. I've lost more than half my

> > hair. This

> > is new endo had me reduce the 50 mcg of=A0 T3 I was taking to 25 mcg

> > and now

> > added T4. I'm supposed to start with 1/2 of 75 mcg for a few days

> > then in-

> > crease to 75. He said this process to " fix " my thyroid would take at

> > least 7

> > to 8 months.

> >

> > When I asked him about the hair, he said that I might lose a bit but

> > it would come back. Now I just read on the thread about swollen hands

> > and feet that it's low T3, which he just lowered again. After he lowered

> > dmy T3 I was tested Monday and my FT3 was 2.5,

> > FT4 0.2. I've had a headache for about a month (same time frame that I

> > was

> > lowering the T3), and my heartburn and stomach has become much worse.I

> > live in Kirkland, WA. Does ANYONE know a doctor in my areas who is willing

> > to dose according to how a patient feels and not just blood tests?

> >

> > This doctor I'm currently seeing is Murray who supposedly is very

> > good. He seems nice enough but is very rushed and I get about 5 to 10

> > minutes

> > with him. He says RT3 is not relevant.

> >

> > <>Roni

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Why is prednisone such a crazy drug?

> Sophia

>

Because ( at least it did me) it has so many side effect, drives your blood

sugar up makes you sweat sometime, makes you retain water, makes you actually

gain weight, and I do not even remember what else. And I have heard people

complain about numerous other side effects on this and other similar sites. But

often it is magical. When I was on it, for 3 weeks, I started with 60 mg and

rapidly reducing it to 40, 30, 10, 5 and finally quit. It stopped my flare up of

itching and spots very rapidly . Since 1999 I had to do this 2x.

Clara from OR dx99 NAFLD/PBC

[Guest guest]

So J had an easy recovery- yeay for those.

Keep in mind though that recovery will be more or less stressful dep on what/

who u r responsible for amd wjether u have a spouse to help and, as is case for

me, extreme sedation in resp to meds.

if u r not resp for safety and well-being of young children and have a spouse

that is home to help (vs travels as is case for me), it will be easier to focus

on healing. If my responsib were limited to animals things would be fine. I can

handle my dog and two cats no prob. Recovery also much less stressful for my

retred mom.

When kids r involved it changes everything. They need help whether ur having

trouble walking or drugged up. Help getting fed, dressed approp, homework and

project in packs, to/ fro school, soccer, dance, activities and we r not ok

eating/ feeding them fast food. Laundry for 4, dishes, etc. So Yes, please

realize that each persons recovery is unique

But as a hard worker, strong person, healthy, fit, and high energy girl / woman,

i have repeayedly shocked by how much the surgeons downplay recovery. This was

case w spine surgery 20 yrs ago, breast lump removal, c-section and now this, so

take it for what u will.

Surgeon told me it would be 2/3 weeks recovery (his own PA laughed when i asked

if pt started this week) and id be back on a recumbent. Now nothing but slow

walking on flat surfaces for six months, no skiing, etc. I road intermed mtn

biking trails, a couple hundred road riding miles a week, amd did a century road

ride before aug flare up and daily pt core strength over month b4 surgery.

There are soooo many variables.

Namaste-

[Guest guest]

Well someone posted that you might need to have a nurse on hand post op, so

I simply posted that my experience was far different. I also specified

the surgery involved, and that I am single, should have added I was 63 at the

time, and that was my post operation experience..a lot of sleep the first

few days, manageable pain, and some serous stiffness, but life went on.

Would this be the case with a spinal fusion? highly unlikely, but with

the diskectomy/foraminotomy, it was " do-able " on my own. i wouldn't want

someone facing the same surgery thinking that they would need nursing care

afterwards or not be able to take care of themselves.

In a message dated 12/5/2010 6:06:12 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

katecarr@... writes:

Having had dogs, kids and birds I can say they make getting better

imperative as they all have needs. They also make everything worth it. There

have

been many times I think I would have given up if it weren't for my

" family " . I don't think anyone meant to diminish any one else's experience but

sometimes it's hard to understand what all is involved if you haven't witnessed

it. As I know birds, I knew what it meant when 30 parrots were referred to

but someone who hadn't had parrots (or children) or whatever might not.

Thank goodness we can learn from one another. Cheers! Kate

From: A.

Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2010 3:47 PM

spinal problems

Subject: Re: [spinal Disorders Support] Re: (no subject)

Rather than diminish someone's experiences by saying that if that person

had kids it would be different, why not just say that experiences

differ? Because..um sorry to say... that is YOUR perspective... that

children require less care and attention than animals or that children

are somehow the same importance to everyone.

Its not a fact, its your opinion. When one has something like 30 large

parrots whose care constitutes a full time job, its easily as stressful

as having a couple of kids and quite likely much MORE stressful,

depending on your perspective. Kids can help make their own meals and

can participate in their own care, but try having 30 parrots participate

in their own feeding and care and you'll see just how totally dependent

they are. Children can understand at different levels that mommy or

daddy is ill and needs help but try explaining that to a bird who only

knows that it received X level of care yesterday and it wants the same

level today.

Simply doing dishes for 30 parrots is more difficult than doing dishes

for a family of 4 due to sheer volume...30 bowls times two (two bowls

per parrot) for a single feeding/watering and each parrot requires two

meals a day. Feeding them isn't as easy as dumping a scoop of bird seed

into a bowl either, since that is the equivalent of fast food for

children, which as you've noted, you don't find adequate and I know that

Judith doesn't find it adequate either. Simply distributing food

prepared in advance and fresh water to my 5 parrots takes me about 30

minutes and this is when I am feeling well. So with someone recovering

from a surgery, simply giving food and water to 30 parrots for 1 meal

would take at least 2 to 3 hours. Add to this the fact that I know

personally that many of Judith's parrots require daily medicating and

you have a minimum of 5-6 hours a day under the best conditions spent

feeding and watering the birds, not including food preparation.

I also know for a fact that Judith did what she had to do, not what she

would have preferred under the circumstances, because she didn't *have*

a choice. She had no one else to help her care for her family. And

family it is..because that too is defined by personal opinion, not biology.

and the gang -- jacdobe@...

Birds: Sadie (GW) Cookie (MMxBuffons) Jaderbug and Nissa (LJs) Sylvie

(RB2) ie (CAG)

Cats: Sully(DSH) Shadow(DMH) Sanouk & la(Siamese) Dogs: Skye

(Dobe/Husky) Reece (Dobe)

Bridge kids: Flirt, Tia, Munchkin, Jasmine, Chuckles, Angel, Indi,

Kayla, Sabien and our heart, Bubba.

Pics of the gang: http://community.webshots.com/user/jacdobe

Allparrots: http://pets./group/allparrots

The Coalition of PA Aviculturists: TCOPA

On 12/5/2010 8:11 AM, Burke wrote:

> I can handle my dog and two cats no prob. Recovery also much less

stressful for my retred mom.

>

> When kids r involved it changes everything. They need help whether ur

having trouble walking or drugged up. Help getting fed, dressed approp,

homework and project in packs, to/ fro school, soccer, dance, activities and we

r not ok eating/ feeding them fast food. Laundry for 4, dishes, etc. So

Yes, please realize that each persons recovery is unique

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----

No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 9.0.872 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3298 - Release Date: 12/05/10

02:34:00

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Groups Links

[Guest guest]

Rather than diminish someone's experiences by saying that if that person

had kids it would be different, why not just say that experiences

differ? Because..um sorry to say... that is YOUR perspective... that

children require less care and attention than animals or that children

are somehow the same importance to everyone.

Its not a fact, its your opinion. When one has something like 30 large

parrots whose care constitutes a full time job, its easily as stressful

as having a couple of kids and quite likely much MORE stressful,

depending on your perspective. Kids can help make their own meals and

can participate in their own care, but try having 30 parrots participate

in their own feeding and care and you'll see just how totally dependent

they are. Children can understand at different levels that mommy or

daddy is ill and needs help but try explaining that to a bird who only

knows that it received X level of care yesterday and it wants the same

level today.

Simply doing dishes for 30 parrots is more difficult than doing dishes

for a family of 4 due to sheer volume...30 bowls times two (two bowls

per parrot) for a single feeding/watering and each parrot requires two

meals a day. Feeding them isn't as easy as dumping a scoop of bird seed

into a bowl either, since that is the equivalent of fast food for

children, which as you've noted, you don't find adequate and I know that

Judith doesn't find it adequate either. Simply distributing food

prepared in advance and fresh water to my 5 parrots takes me about 30

minutes and this is when I am feeling well. So with someone recovering

from a surgery, simply giving food and water to 30 parrots for 1 meal

would take at least 2 to 3 hours. Add to this the fact that I know

personally that many of Judith's parrots require daily medicating and

you have a minimum of 5-6 hours a day under the best conditions spent

feeding and watering the birds, not including food preparation.

I also know for a fact that Judith did what she had to do, not what she

would have preferred under the circumstances, because she didn't *have*

a choice. She had no one else to help her care for her family. And

family it is..because that too is defined by personal opinion, not biology.

and the gang -- jacdobe@...

Birds: Sadie (GW) Cookie (MMxBuffons) Jaderbug and Nissa (LJs) Sylvie

(RB2) ie (CAG)

Cats: Sully(DSH) Shadow(DMH) Sanouk & la(Siamese) Dogs: Skye

(Dobe/Husky) Reece (Dobe)

Bridge kids: Flirt, Tia, Munchkin, Jasmine, Chuckles, Angel, Indi,

Kayla, Sabien and our heart, Bubba.

Pics of the gang: http://community.webshots.com/user/jacdobe

Allparrots: http://pets./group/allparrots

The Coalition of PA Aviculturists: TCOPA

On 12/5/2010 8:11 AM, Burke wrote:

> I can handle my dog and two cats no prob. Recovery also much less stressful

for my retred mom.

>

> When kids r involved it changes everything. They need help whether ur having

trouble walking or drugged up. Help getting fed, dressed approp, homework and

project in packs, to/ fro school, soccer, dance, activities and we r not ok

eating/ feeding them fast food. Laundry for 4, dishes, etc. So Yes, please

realize that each persons recovery is unique

[Guest guest]

Meant to say, that is your perspective that children require MORE care

than animals

and the gang -- jacdobe@...

Birds: Sadie (GW) Cookie (MMxBuffons) Jaderbug and Nissa (LJs) Sylvie

(RB2) ie (CAG)

Cats: Sully(DSH) Shadow(DMH) Sanouk & la(Siamese) Dogs: Skye

(Dobe/Husky) Reece (Dobe)

Bridge kids: Flirt, Tia, Munchkin, Jasmine, Chuckles, Angel, Indi,

Kayla, Sabien and our heart, Bubba.

Pics of the gang: http://community.webshots.com/user/jacdobe

Allparrots: http://pets./group/allparrots

The Coalition of PA Aviculturists: TCOPA

On 12/5/2010 3:47 PM, A. wrote:

> that is YOUR perspective... that

> children require less care and attention than animals or that children

> are somehow the same importance to everyone.

[Guest guest]

I thought this site was a site to provide help to one another . I didnt think it

was a site to decide what is harder for each person. We are all in pain and we

are all from different areas of the planet. So we are all different and things

affect each of us differently. So what one may find hard to do another may not

find that hard at all. It would be nice to see everyone helping each other out.

Re: Re: (no subject)

Rather than diminish someone's experiences by saying that if that person

had kids it would be different, why not just say that experiences

differ? Because..um sorry to say... that is YOUR perspective... that

children require less care and attention than animals or that children

are somehow the same importance to everyone.

Its not a fact, its your opinion. When one has something like 30 large

parrots whose care constitutes a full time job, its easily as stressful

as having a couple of kids and quite likely much MORE stressful,

depending on your perspective. Kids can help make their own meals and

can participate in their own care, but try having 30 parrots participate

in their own feeding and care and you'll see just how totally dependent

they are. Children can understand at different levels that mommy or

daddy is ill and needs help but try explaining that to a bird who only

knows that it received X level of care yesterday and it wants the same

level today.

Simply doing dishes for 30 parrots is more difficult than doing dishes

for a family of 4 due to sheer volume...30 bowls times two (two bowls

per parrot) for a single feeding/watering and each parrot requires two

meals a day. Feeding them isn't as easy as dumping a scoop of bird seed

into a bowl either, since that is the equivalent of fast food for

children, which as you've noted, you don't find adequate and I know that

Judith doesn't find it adequate either. Simply distributing food

prepared in advance and fresh water to my 5 parrots takes me about 30

minutes and this is when I am feeling well. So with someone recovering

from a surgery, simply giving food and water to 30 parrots for 1 meal

would take at least 2 to 3 hours. Add to this the fact that I know

personally that many of Judith's parrots require daily medicating and

you have a minimum of 5-6 hours a day under the best conditions spent

feeding and watering the birds, not including food preparation.

I also know for a fact that Judith did what she had to do, not what she

would have preferred under the circumstances, because she didn't *have*

a choice. She had no one else to help her care for her family. And

family it is..because that too is defined by personal opinion, not biology.

and the gang -- jacdobe@...

Birds: Sadie (GW) Cookie (MMxBuffons) Jaderbug and Nissa (LJs) Sylvie

(RB2) ie (CAG)

Cats: Sully(DSH) Shadow(DMH) Sanouk & la(Siamese) Dogs: Skye

(Dobe/Husky) Reece (Dobe)

Bridge kids: Flirt, Tia, Munchkin, Jasmine, Chuckles, Angel, Indi,

Kayla, Sabien and our heart, Bubba.

Pics of the gang: http://community.webshots.com/user/jacdobe

Allparrots: http://pets./group/allparrots

The Coalition of PA Aviculturists: TCOPA

On 12/5/2010 8:11 AM, Burke wrote:

> I can handle my dog and two cats no prob. Recovery also much less stressful

for my retred mom.

>

> When kids r involved it changes everything. They need help whether ur having

trouble walking or drugged up. Help getting fed, dressed approp, homework and

project in packs, to/ fro school, soccer, dance, activities and we r not ok

eating/ feeding them fast food. Laundry for 4, dishes, etc. So Yes, please

realize that each persons recovery is unique

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 10.0.1170 / Virus Database: 426/3298 - Release Date: 12/05/10

[Guest guest]

Having had dogs, kids and birds I can say they make getting better imperative as

they all have needs. They also make everything worth it. There have been many

times I think I would have given up if it weren't for my " family " . I don't think

anyone meant to diminish any one else's experience but sometimes it's hard to

understand what all is involved if you haven't witnessed it. As I know birds, I

knew what it meant when 30 parrots were referred to but someone who hadn't had

parrots (or children) or whatever might not. Thank goodness we can learn from

one another. Cheers! Kate

From: A.

Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2010 3:47 PM

spinal problems

Subject: Re: Re: (no subject)

Rather than diminish someone's experiences by saying that if that person

had kids it would be different, why not just say that experiences

differ? Because..um sorry to say... that is YOUR perspective... that

children require less care and attention than animals or that children

are somehow the same importance to everyone.

Its not a fact, its your opinion. When one has something like 30 large

parrots whose care constitutes a full time job, its easily as stressful

as having a couple of kids and quite likely much MORE stressful,

depending on your perspective. Kids can help make their own meals and

can participate in their own care, but try having 30 parrots participate

in their own feeding and care and you'll see just how totally dependent

they are. Children can understand at different levels that mommy or

daddy is ill and needs help but try explaining that to a bird who only

knows that it received X level of care yesterday and it wants the same

level today.

Simply doing dishes for 30 parrots is more difficult than doing dishes

for a family of 4 due to sheer volume...30 bowls times two (two bowls

per parrot) for a single feeding/watering and each parrot requires two

meals a day. Feeding them isn't as easy as dumping a scoop of bird seed

into a bowl either, since that is the equivalent of fast food for

children, which as you've noted, you don't find adequate and I know that

Judith doesn't find it adequate either. Simply distributing food

prepared in advance and fresh water to my 5 parrots takes me about 30

minutes and this is when I am feeling well. So with someone recovering

from a surgery, simply giving food and water to 30 parrots for 1 meal

would take at least 2 to 3 hours. Add to this the fact that I know

personally that many of Judith's parrots require daily medicating and

you have a minimum of 5-6 hours a day under the best conditions spent

feeding and watering the birds, not including food preparation.

I also know for a fact that Judith did what she had to do, not what she

would have preferred under the circumstances, because she didn't *have*

a choice. She had no one else to help her care for her family. And

family it is..because that too is defined by personal opinion, not biology.

and the gang -- jacdobe@...

Birds: Sadie (GW) Cookie (MMxBuffons) Jaderbug and Nissa (LJs) Sylvie

(RB2) ie (CAG)

Cats: Sully(DSH) Shadow(DMH) Sanouk & la(Siamese) Dogs: Skye

(Dobe/Husky) Reece (Dobe)

Bridge kids: Flirt, Tia, Munchkin, Jasmine, Chuckles, Angel, Indi,

Kayla, Sabien and our heart, Bubba.

Pics of the gang: http://community.webshots.com/user/jacdobe

Allparrots: http://pets./group/allparrots

The Coalition of PA Aviculturists: TCOPA

On 12/5/2010 8:11 AM, Burke wrote:

> I can handle my dog and two cats no prob. Recovery also much less stressful

for my retred mom.

>

> When kids r involved it changes everything. They need help whether ur having

trouble walking or drugged up. Help getting fed, dressed approp, homework and

project in packs, to/ fro school, soccer, dance, activities and we r not ok

eating/ feeding them fast food. Laundry for 4, dishes, etc. So Yes, please

realize that each persons recovery is unique

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 9.0.872 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3298 - Release Date: 12/05/10

02:34:00

[Guest guest]

I am right here can I help you in any way? I have a lot of knowledge about

Arachnoiditis but I am illiterate about some back problems and I have no

knowledge about necks. If I can answer a question I will give it my best.

Janice

Re: Re: (no subject)

Rather than diminish someone's experiences by saying that if that person

had kids it would be different, why not just say that experiences

differ? Because..um sorry to say... that is YOUR perspective... that

children require less care and attention than animals or that children

are somehow the same importance to everyone.

Its not a fact, its your opinion. When one has something like 30 large

parrots whose care constitutes a full time job, its easily as stressful

as having a couple of kids and quite likely much MORE stressful,

depending on your perspective. Kids can help make their own meals and

can participate in their own care, but try having 30 parrots participate

in their own feeding and care and you'll see just how totally dependent

they are. Children can understand at different levels that mommy or

daddy is ill and needs help but try explaining that to a bird who only

knows that it received X level of care yesterday and it wants the same

level today.

Simply doing dishes for 30 parrots is more difficult than doing dishes

for a family of 4 due to sheer volume...30 bowls times two (two bowls

per parrot) for a single feeding/watering and each parrot requires two

meals a day. Feeding them isn't as easy as dumping a scoop of bird seed

into a bowl either, since that is the equivalent of fast food for

children, which as you've noted, you don't find adequate and I know that

Judith doesn't find it adequate either. Simply distributing food

prepared in advance and fresh water to my 5 parrots takes me about 30

minutes and this is when I am feeling well. So with someone recovering

from a surgery, simply giving food and water to 30 parrots for 1 meal

would take at least 2 to 3 hours. Add to this the fact that I know

personally that many of Judith's parrots require daily medicating and

you have a minimum of 5-6 hours a day under the best conditions spent

feeding and watering the birds, not including food preparation.

I also know for a fact that Judith did what she had to do, not what she

would have preferred under the circumstances, because she didn't *have*

a choice. She had no one else to help her care for her family. And

family it is..because that too is defined by personal opinion, not biology.

and the gang -- jacdobe@...

Birds: Sadie (GW) Cookie (MMxBuffons) Jaderbug and Nissa (LJs) Sylvie

(RB2) ie (CAG)

Cats: Sully(DSH) Shadow(DMH) Sanouk & la(Siamese) Dogs: Skye

(Dobe/Husky) Reece (Dobe)

Bridge kids: Flirt, Tia, Munchkin, Jasmine, Chuckles, Angel, Indi,

Kayla, Sabien and our heart, Bubba.

Pics of the gang: http://community.webshots.com/user/jacdobe

Allparrots: http://pets./group/allparrots

The Coalition of PA Aviculturists: TCOPA

On 12/5/2010 8:11 AM, Burke wrote:

> I can handle my dog and two cats no prob. Recovery also much less stressful

for my retred mom.

>

> When kids r involved it changes everything. They need help whether ur having

trouble walking or drugged up. Help getting fed, dressed approp, homework and

project in packs, to/ fro school, soccer, dance, activities and we r not ok

eating/ feeding them fast food. Laundry for 4, dishes, etc. So Yes, please

realize that each persons recovery is unique

----------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 10.0.1170 / Virus Database: 426/3298 - Release Date: 12/05/10

[Guest guest]

That was exactly the point I made. Someone else said that it was more

difficult to deal post op having children than having pets. I said that

it wasn't their place to say that the other person's experience was

easier because they didn't have the same situation to deal with. No one

can make that decision and presuming to know what another thinks, feels

or is capable of isn't helpful in the slightest.

and the gang -- jacdobe@...

Birds: Sadie (GW) Cookie (MMxBuffons) Jaderbug and Nissa (LJs) Sylvie

(RB2) ie (CAG)

Cats: Sully(DSH) Shadow(DMH) Sanouk & la(Siamese) Dogs: Skye

(Dobe/Husky) Reece (Dobe)

Bridge kids: Flirt, Tia, Munchkin, Jasmine, Chuckles, Angel, Indi,

Kayla, Sabien and our heart, Bubba.

Pics of the gang: http://community.webshots.com/user/jacdobe

Allparrots: http://pets./group/allparrots

The Coalition of PA Aviculturists: TCOPA

On 12/5/2010 5:58 PM, jalbert6855 wrote:

> I didnt think it was a site to decide what is harder for each person. We are

all in pain and we are all from different areas of the planet. So we are all

different and things affect each of us differently. So what one may find hard to

do another may not find that hard at all. It would be nice to see everyone

helping each other out.

[Guest guest]

I have had 5 back operatins and the 4 th one was a fusion in the low back. The

recovery was just the same as the first three. At least for me it was. I was in

hte hospital 3 days came home laid around taking pain drugs for about 5 days

then I slowly got up each day and did more nad more until things were back to

normal whatever normal is.LOL

Janice

Re: Re: (no subject)

Rather than diminish someone's experiences by saying that if that person

had kids it would be different, why not just say that experiences

differ? Because..um sorry to say... that is YOUR perspective... that

children require less care and attention than animals or that children

are somehow the same importance to everyone.

Its not a fact, its your opinion. When one has something like 30 large

parrots whose care constitutes a full time job, its easily as stressful

as having a couple of kids and quite likely much MORE stressful,

depending on your perspective. Kids can help make their own meals and

can participate in their own care, but try having 30 parrots participate

in their own feeding and care and you'll see just how totally dependent

they are. Children can understand at different levels that mommy or

daddy is ill and needs help but try explaining that to a bird who only

knows that it received X level of care yesterday and it wants the same

level today.

Simply doing dishes for 30 parrots is more difficult than doing dishes

for a family of 4 due to sheer volume...30 bowls times two (two bowls

per parrot) for a single feeding/watering and each parrot requires two

meals a day. Feeding them isn't as easy as dumping a scoop of bird seed

into a bowl either, since that is the equivalent of fast food for

children, which as you've noted, you don't find adequate and I know that

Judith doesn't find it adequate either. Simply distributing food

prepared in advance and fresh water to my 5 parrots takes me about 30

minutes and this is when I am feeling well. So with someone recovering

from a surgery, simply giving food and water to 30 parrots for 1 meal

would take at least 2 to 3 hours. Add to this the fact that I know

personally that many of Judith's parrots require daily medicating and

you have a minimum of 5-6 hours a day under the best conditions spent

feeding and watering the birds, not including food preparation.

I also know for a fact that Judith did what she had to do, not what she

would have preferred under the circumstances, because she didn't *have*

a choice. She had no one else to help her care for her family. And

family it is..because that too is defined by personal opinion, not biology.

and the gang -- jacdobe@...

Birds: Sadie (GW) Cookie (MMxBuffons) Jaderbug and Nissa (LJs) Sylvie

(RB2) ie (CAG)

Cats: Sully(DSH) Shadow(DMH) Sanouk & la(Siamese) Dogs: Skye

(Dobe/Husky) Reece (Dobe)

Bridge kids: Flirt, Tia, Munchkin, Jasmine, Chuckles, Angel, Indi,

Kayla, Sabien and our heart, Bubba.

Pics of the gang: http://community.webshots.com/user/jacdobe

Allparrots: http://pets./group/allparrots

The Coalition of PA Aviculturists: TCOPA

On 12/5/2010 8:11 AM, Burke wrote:

> I can handle my dog and two cats no prob. Recovery also much less

stressful for my retred mom.

>

> When kids r involved it changes everything. They need help whether ur

having trouble walking or drugged up. Help getting fed, dressed approp,

homework and project in packs, to/ fro school, soccer, dance, activities and

we

r not ok eating/ feeding them fast food. Laundry for 4, dishes, etc. So

Yes, please realize that each persons recovery is unique

----------------------------------------------------------

----

No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 9.0.872 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3298 - Release Date: 12/05/10

02:34:00

[Guest guest]

Your absolutely right

Janice

Re: Re: (no subject)

That was exactly the point I made. Someone else said that it was more

difficult to deal post op having children than having pets. I said that

it wasn't their place to say that the other person's experience was

easier because they didn't have the same situation to deal with. No one

can make that decision and presuming to know what another thinks, feels

or is capable of isn't helpful in the slightest.

and the gang -- jacdobe@...

Birds: Sadie (GW) Cookie (MMxBuffons) Jaderbug and Nissa (LJs) Sylvie

(RB2) ie (CAG)

Cats: Sully(DSH) Shadow(DMH) Sanouk & la(Siamese) Dogs: Skye

(Dobe/Husky) Reece (Dobe)

Bridge kids: Flirt, Tia, Munchkin, Jasmine, Chuckles, Angel, Indi,

Kayla, Sabien and our heart, Bubba.

Pics of the gang: http://community.webshots.com/user/jacdobe

Allparrots: http://pets./group/allparrots

The Coalition of PA Aviculturists: TCOPA

On 12/5/2010 5:58 PM, jalbert6855 wrote:

> I didnt think it was a site to decide what is harder for each person. We are

all in pain and we are all from different areas of the planet. So we are all

different and things affect each of us differently. So what one may find hard to

do another may not find that hard at all. It would be nice to see everyone

helping each other out.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 9.0.872 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3298 - Release Date: 12/04/10

23:34:00

[Guest guest]

______________________________________________________________________

Get Visto.com! Private groups, event calendars, email, and much more.

Visto.com. Life on the Dot.

Check it out @ http://www.visto.com/info

[Guest guest]

I apologize..apparently my email was hacked/compromised yesterday and

emails went out to ALL of my contact list. UGH.

PLEASE do not open any links in emails from me.

It should be corrected/fixed now..but just in case.

Kathy Bender