To Debby

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/2/01 4:10:10 AM Pacific Daylight Time, bpatin@... writes:

How interesting to live on a Navajo reservation for 3 years.

Debby, I'd love to know what took you to the reservation. I assume you aren't Navajo, as you didn't mention that.

Harper

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/2/01 6:08:35 PM Pacific Daylight Time, tdcc2000@... writes:

Harper, no, I am not Navajo....but they are truly a wonderful tribe to live with! My husband lost his job in California. I was able to find a job in New Mexico through some friends of my father. ANyway, I ended up teaching there and my husband lived in Albuquerque and attended UNM to secure his teaching credential. I lived 2 1/1 hours northeast and taught on the NE corner of the reservation. THen, we moved near Gallup to teach there. Like I said, it was three wonderful years of our lives! I was sorry to leave, but family necessitated that we move closer to help with their care. Both my husband and hope to be able to return to live there and teach once again!

debby

Sounds great! (I had assumed that if you were Navajo you would have said so, but I couldn't be sure.) What an interesting part of the world you were in.

Harper

[Guest guest]

Harper, no, I am not Navajo....but they are truly a wonderful tribe to live with! My husband lost his job in California. I was able to find a job in New Mexico through some friends of my father. ANyway, I ended up teaching there and my husband lived in Albuquerque and attended UNM to secure his teaching credential. I lived 2 1/1 hours northeast and taught on the NE corner of the reservation. THen, we moved near Gallup to teach there. Like I said, it was three wonderful years of our lives! I was sorry to leave, but family necessitated that we move closer to help with their care. Both my husband and hope to be able to return to live there and teach once again!

debby

Re: [ ] To Debby

In a message dated 10/2/01 4:10:10 AM Pacific Daylight Time, bpatin@... writes:

How interesting to live on a Navajo reservation for 3 years. Debby, I'd love to know what took you to the reservation. I assume you aren't Navajo, as you didn't mention that. Harper

[Guest guest]

Well, my Charlie Chipmunk is looking better today. But I still am icing it. No, it isn't infected. I looked and since it is going down, and the bruising is getting "greener" I am not worrying so much. Talking is hard at times, but family has always said I talked too much! The doctor put me on antibiotics too...taking 2000mg a day! Hey, at least I know my white count will not be too elevated the next blood test! Guess there are some blessings!

Thanks for the concern. debby

Re: To Debby - herbs>> I am beginning to agree with you all....but someone told me that theChinese don't get AIH....I am wondering if maybe they don't get it becausethey eat right or take the herbs. Just something to think about.>> The one reason that I am "pro" herbs, is that I lived on the Navajoreservation for 3 years and learned to appreciate the herbs that themedicine men used. But, then, that was LONG before I developed this disease.There might be a good reason to take herbs, but for now, I think I am goingto just let them be until I can get myself much down the road on this AIHproblem!>> Thanks for all of your input. debby

[Guest guest]

Debby,

Imuran is an immuno suppressant and works to suppress our overactive immune

system. Prednisone is an anti-inflammatory. If only Prednisone is used it

has to be prescribed in very high doses.......with increased risk of side

effects. Imuran attacks AIH in another way and allows lower doses of

Prednisone to be used.

Glad to hear your mouth is feeling better and I enjoyed reading about your

life on the Navajo reservation. So you're a teacher who talks too

much........how unusual!!!

Take care, Bozena

> Message: 16

> Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 18:12:02 -0700

> From: " Tex Pueschel " <tdcc2000@...>

> Subject: Re: To Debby

>

> Well, my Charlie Chipmunk is looking better today. But I still am icing

it. No, it isn't infected. I looked and since it is going down, and the

bruising is getting " greener " I am not worrying so much. Talking is hard at

times, but family has always said I talked too much! The doctor put me on

antibiotics too...taking 2000mg a day! Hey, at least I know my white count

will not be too elevated the next blood test! Guess there are some

blessings!

>

> Thanks for the concern. debby

> Message: 19

> Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 18:29:59 -0700

> From: " Tex Pueschel " <tdcc2000@...>

> Subject: Re: verge of a transplant???

>

> Taking Imuran when it causes liver damage does NOT make sense to me! How

come we take it? debby

[Guest guest]

My mind certainly is made up about dairy. Why do you

even bother to try and change my mind when I am

clearly happy I don't do dairy?

As far as staying in this group, there's a lot of

other stuff to learn besides having people trying to

stuff dairy down my throat. I'm learning about

products, health, nutrition, etc.

By the way, I don't have a closed mind, I just don't

do dairy, and you were trying to " convince " me that I

should. If you want to try and change someone's mind,

you had better be prepared that it won't work.

You'd have the same response if I told you that you

make excuses for eating dairy because you like it, and

because you don't want to give it up you " convince "

yourself it's good for you.

Or what if you were a vegetarian and I was trying to

convince you to eat meat?

Oh, and be careful trying to change someone's mind

when you don't have all your facts together.. your

ignorance may show up.

Luv,

Debby

San , CA

--- rose marie belforti <todo2@...> wrote:

> Your mind is made up girl!

> Wonder why you continue in a group if you have

> become so perfected?

> Be careful of such a closed mind. It may come back

> to bite you!

Website for my son Hunter Hudson, born 10/11/04:

http://debbypadilla.0catch.com/hunter/

Got Low Carb Inspiration? Find some here!

lowcarbinspiration/

[Guest guest]

Greetings All

--- Debby Padilla-Hudson <debbypadilla@y...> wrote:

--- rose marie belforti <todo2@u...> wrote:

Ladies can we bring it down a bit please.

We are all having different thoughts on many different things.

What works for one does not work for others for what ever reason.

Can we drop the little barbs and continue the education?

Good!!!

Lets get well!!!

Good health to all

nieema

[Guest guest]

Debbie,

Not trying to change your mind, just trying to say that milk has had a pretty

bad go of it since pasteurization laws. And the baby has been thrown out with

the bath water!

I am old enough, and have lived through many diet phases, including many years

as a vegetarian, and macrobiotic to know that in all these years, not once did I

hear any " alternative " people mention raw milk. It just wasn't part of the

vocabulary.

Why?

Why?

Perhaps because a lot of paradigms that people think in are reactionary to

something else. Most mental processes deal in either in conformity, or they are

reactionary.

There are not that many brillian ideas out there that are truly unique and

untainted by what came before. Science is based on what came before.

That is why I mentioned the Bible. It is not a fad, it is conforming to nothing.

And even if you are not a believer, it is worth looking at as an historical

document.

And before you insult a point of view coming from a religios person, you should

check to see if, in fact, you are in reaction.

That was a very stereotypic remark you made. Nothing new about it. Very closed

minded. Very materialistic.

I really don't care if you want dairy.

I thought the discussion was more about the affects of raw milk on health.

It was more about information that I thought we were wrestling with.

It is wise to consider other points of view, such as that of the Weston Price

foundation. There is a lot of information there that is not going to be found in

other places, as an alternative to the conventionally squashed idea about milk.

Anyway, sorry to stir you us so.

Rose Marie

Re: To Debby

My mind certainly is made up about dairy. Why do you

even bother to try and change my mind when I am

clearly happy I don't do dairy?

As far as staying in this group, there's a lot of

other stuff to learn besides having people trying to

stuff dairy down my throat. I'm learning about

products, health, nutrition, etc.

By the way, I don't have a closed mind, I just don't

do dairy, and you were trying to " convince " me that I

should. If you want to try and change someone's mind,

you had better be prepared that it won't work.

You'd have the same response if I told you that you

make excuses for eating dairy because you like it, and

because you don't want to give it up you " convince "

yourself it's good for you.

Or what if you were a vegetarian and I was trying to

convince you to eat meat?

Oh, and be careful trying to change someone's mind

when you don't have all your facts together.. your

ignorance may show up.

Luv,

Debby

San , CA

--- rose marie belforti <todo2@...> wrote:

> Your mind is made up girl!

> Wonder why you continue in a group if you have

> become so perfected?

> Be careful of such a closed mind. It may come back

> to bite you!

Website for my son Hunter Hudson, born 10/11/04:

http://debbypadilla.0catch.com/hunter/

Got Low Carb Inspiration? Find some here!

lowcarbinspiration/

[Guest guest]

The bible was written in the last 4000-5000 years.

The paleolithic era ended 14,000 years ago. When the

bible was written, the technology age had already

started, as well as farming. Hence, the bible will

show what was eaten during those times. There is no

point in you bringing religion in the conversation.

While I do believe in God, and I am a spirtual person,

I do not believe in religion, and I do believe in

evolution.

I have stated clearly that I do understand that there

is a difference between raw and pasteurized, and I

still believe that it is unnecessary and even harmful

for a human to drink dairy that was designed for the

nutritional needs of a baby calf.

My mental processes are neither reactionary nor

conformed. Since I have been obese since the age of

six, my entire life has been spent in the devotion of

nutrition, health, and exercise. I was always looking

for a way to improve my health and lose weight.

Studying these topics is a hobby of mine, and has been

for a while. So I take in information, process it and

draw my own conclusions, just as you do.

Being anti-dairy is the antithesis of conformity, as I

have taken a lot of flack for having this opinion over

the years. The bottom line is that if someone is

having problems with health, weight or what ever, I

will always recommend Paleolithic nutrition because it

is what I believe works best.

If something else works for you, great! I've held

these beliefs on dairy long before I met you, so if

there was any reaction, it was just based on your

insistance that milk is a miracle cure.

Bringing religion into the topic was irrelevant and

unnecessary.

Luv,

Debby

San , CA

--- rose marie belforti <todo2@...> wrote:

> Debbie,

> Not trying to change your mind, just trying to say

> that milk has had a pretty bad go of it since

> pasteurization laws. And the baby has been thrown

> out with the bath water!

> I am old enough, and have lived through many diet

> phases, including many years as a vegetarian, and

> macrobiotic to know that in all these years, not

> once did I hear any " alternative " people mention raw

> milk. It just wasn't part of the vocabulary.

> Why?

> Why?

> Perhaps because a lot of paradigms that people think

> in are reactionary to something else. Most mental

> processes deal in either in conformity, or they are

> reactionary.

> There are not that many brillian ideas out there

> that are truly unique and untainted by what came

> before. Science is based on what came before.

> That is why I mentioned the Bible. It is not a fad,

> it is conforming to nothing. And even if you are not

> a believer, it is worth looking at as an historical

> document.

> And before you insult a point of view coming from a

> religios person, you should check to see if, in

> fact, you are in reaction.

> That was a very stereotypic remark you made. Nothing

> new about it. Very closed minded. Very

> materialistic.

> I really don't care if you want dairy.

> I thought the discussion was more about the affects

> of raw milk on health.

> It was more about information that I thought we were

> wrestling with.

> It is wise to consider other points of view, such as

> that of the Weston Price foundation. There is a lot

> of information there that is not going to be found

> in other places, as an alternative to the

> conventionally squashed idea about milk.

> Anyway, sorry to stir you us so.

> Rose Marie

>

Website for my son Hunter Hudson, born 10/11/04:

http://debbypadilla.0catch.com/hunter/

Got Low Carb Inspiration? Find some here!

lowcarbinspiration/

[Guest guest]

" Bringing religion into the topic was irrelevant and

unnecessary. "

---Maybe irrelevant and unnecessary for you Debbie, but not for

everyone.

>

> > Debbie,

> > Not trying to change your mind, just trying to say

> > that milk has had a pretty bad go of it since

> > pasteurization laws. And the baby has been thrown

> > out with the bath water!

> > I am old enough, and have lived through many diet

> > phases, including many years as a vegetarian, and

> > macrobiotic to know that in all these years, not

> > once did I hear any " alternative " people mention raw

> > milk. It just wasn't part of the vocabulary.

> > Why?

> > Why?

> > Perhaps because a lot of paradigms that people think

> > in are reactionary to something else. Most mental

> > processes deal in either in conformity, or they are

> > reactionary.

> > There are not that many brillian ideas out there

> > that are truly unique and untainted by what came

> > before. Science is based on what came before.

> > That is why I mentioned the Bible. It is not a fad,

> > it is conforming to nothing. And even if you are not

> > a believer, it is worth looking at as an historical

> > document.

> > And before you insult a point of view coming from a

> > religios person, you should check to see if, in

> > fact, you are in reaction.

> > That was a very stereotypic remark you made. Nothing

> > new about it. Very closed minded. Very

> > materialistic.

> > I really don't care if you want dairy.

> > I thought the discussion was more about the affects

> > of raw milk on health.

> > It was more about information that I thought we were

> > wrestling with.

> > It is wise to consider other points of view, such as

> > that of the Weston Price foundation. There is a lot

> > of information there that is not going to be found

> > in other places, as an alternative to the

> > conventionally squashed idea about milk.

> > Anyway, sorry to stir you us so.

> > Rose Marie

> >

>

> Website for my son Hunter Hudson, born 10/11/04:

> http://debbypadilla.0catch.com/hunter/

>

> Got Low Carb Inspiration? Find some here!

> lowcarbinspiration/

[Guest guest]

I DONT THINK THE BIBLE HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT EITHER MILK IS NOT GOOD FOR

YOU TODAY AT ALL THEY FILL THE COWS WITH ALL KINDS OF STUFF TO FATTEN THEM UP.

AND WHO KNOWS WHAT THEY DO TO IT BEFORE YOU BUY IT.. IT NEVER GAVE ME A

HEADACHE YEARS AGO BUT NOW IT DOES GO FIGURE!!!!!! THE BIBLE SAYS GOD GAVE US

FOOD TO EAT AND BACK THEN EVERYTHING WAS PURE AND FRESH NOW FORGET IT NOT EVEN

THE STUFF GROWN ON TREES IS PURE AND FRESH... THATS JUST MY 2 CENTS IM DEBBIE

FORM PITTSBURGH TOO MANY DEBBIES ON HERE DEBBIE S

! lowcarbinspiration/Candidiasis

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[Guest guest]

So Debbie, what actually DO you eat???

Rose Marie

[Guest guest]

Debbie from Pittsburgh, you can drink raw milk that does not have all that bad

stuff in it that you mentioned!

Rose Marie

[Guest guest]

organic meats, vegetables and the occassional fruit.

Luv,

Debby

San , CA

--- rose marie belforti <todo2@...> wrote:

> So Debbie, what actually DO you eat???

> Rose Marie

Website for my son Hunter Hudson, born 10/11/04:

http://debbypadilla.0catch.com/hunter/

Got Low Carb Inspiration? Find some here!

lowcarbinspiration/

[Guest guest]

Debbie, did you know that a lot of veggies that we have now were not around in

the paleolithic times?

I forget, what were those dates. It was pre-Cretaceous correct?

Because a lot of foods we have now did not appear (according to evolution) until

the Cretaceous era. (I have a M.S. in Botany). So, that may shoot your theory.

For instance, broccoli, caulifower, and lettuce, to name just a few, are a

modern veggies. Fruits also have been completely modified in recent times.

Paleobotanical plants were very different than they are now.

Since I believe what the Bible says, (even though I have years of studying

evolution) the reasons according to the Bible for the dramatic change is that

there was a world wide flood, in more recent times of course.

Plants before the flood, (or pre Cretaceous) were basically fern like, date

palm, coconut-like. Very different - no deciduous trees at that time.

Anyway, thanks for hanging in here with me!

Rose Marie

[Guest guest]

--- hoppers99 <hoppers99@...> wrote:

>

>

> " Bringing religion into the topic was irrelevant and

> unnecessary. "

>

> ---Maybe irrelevant and unnecessary for you Debbie,

> but not for

> everyone.

Why, because you feel the need to preach to me?

Luv,

Debby

San , CA

Website for my son Hunter Hudson, born 10/11/04:

http://debbypadilla.0catch.com/hunter/

Got Low Carb Inspiration? Find some here!

lowcarbinspiration/

[Guest guest]

--- rose marie belforti <todo2@...> wrote:

> Debbie, did you know that a lot of veggies that we

> have now were not around in the paleolithic times?

> I forget, what were those dates. It was

> pre-Cretaceous correct?

> Because a lot of foods we have now did not appear

> (according to evolution) until the Cretaceous era.

> (I have a M.S. in Botany). So, that may shoot your

> theory. For instance, broccoli, caulifower, and

> lettuce, to name just a few, are a modern veggies.

Yes, this is all true. This is why a Paleo diet can

only *mimic* what our ancestors ate, by trying to get

similar macro and micro nutrients. Also, I'm

definitely ignorant in the religion area, but didn't

the bible say somewhere not to eat the fruits of

technology or something like that?

> Fruits also have been completely modified in recent

> times. Paleobotanical plants were very different

> than they are now.

> Since I believe what the Bible says, (even though I

> have years of studying evolution) the reasons

> according to the Bible for the dramatic change is

> that there was a world wide flood, in more recent

> times of course.

Yes, fruits are way more sugary then they used to be.

That's why I rarely eat fruits, especially since I am

trying to lose weight. But there are some berries

that are still good. Getting organic foods and having

variety helps. It's still not ideal, but better than

a technology diet, IMO.

> Plants before the flood, (or pre Cretaceous) were

> basically fern like, date palm, coconut-like. Very

> different - no deciduous trees at that time.

> Anyway, thanks for hanging in here with me!

> Rose Marie

Yup, this is why I can see how coconut oil could be so

healthy for the body. Also, I do believe in God, but

I do not believe in the bible. While I believe in

God, I do believe in evolution. An evolution created

by God. The two aren't mutually exclusive IMO.

Luv,

Debby

San , CA

Website for my son Hunter Hudson, born 10/11/04:

http://debbypadilla.0catch.com/hunter/

Got Low Carb Inspiration? Find some here!

lowcarbinspiration/

[Guest guest]

Debbie,

I am not going to get into more religious stuff here, but just to say, how can a

person believe in God, but not accept what God wrote the Bible. That is a

complete contradiction! I worry about your rationale regarding your diet when I

hear you say something so contradictory. There is no reason in that statement.

It must be a different God you worship. The God that I know from the Bible tells

us exactly how he formed the earth and how long it took him to do it in the book

of Genesis.

Anyway,

if your diet is working for you, that is great, I think the reason we are

debating with you is because we care about you.

And don't want you to become sick in the long run from an incomplete diet. That

is all!

And of course no one is shoving milk down your throat, but I am getting

fantastically well from drinking it, all my yeasties are going away!!! The kefir

is great for killing candida and cleaning and rebalancing the gut!!!

But even if you don't want to drink milk, you still may find it interesting to

read all the new info. coming out on the attributes of whey, kefir, and other

forms of raw milk.

Rose Marie

[Guest guest]

There is a Biblical Christianity support group on the

curezone site. Maybe you should take this problem

there. http://curezone.com/forums/f.asp?f=462 & t=16544

Regards

McKelvey U.K.

--- rose marie belforti <todo2@...> wrote:

---------------------------------

Debbie,

I am not going to get into more religious stuff here,

but just to say, how can a person believe in God, but

not accept what God wrote the Bible.

McKelvey

Forever Living Products Independent Distributor

___________________________________________________________

Messenger - want a free and easy way to contact your friends online?

http://uk.messenger.

[Guest guest]

--- rose marie belforti <todo2@...> wrote:

> Debbie,

> I am not going to get into more religious stuff

> here, but just to say, how can a person believe in

> God, but not accept what God wrote the Bible. That

> is a complete contradiction!

It's off topic, but man wrote the bible, not God.

> Anyway,

> if your diet is working for you, that is great, I

> think the reason we are debating with you is because

> we care about you.

I can tell by your posts you are a very caring person,

and I appreciate it. I promise you that removing

dairy from my diet had made a WORLD of difference, so

if you care, you would respect that. Also, I know

many people who dairy-free has made a difference for.

I want to share that with people on the list, because

I truly believe dairy-free will help those with

candida. Why not let people try it? If it doesn't

make a difference for them, great, but at least they

have tried.

> And don't want you to become sick in the long run

> from an incomplete diet. That is all!

Trust me, there are MANY groups of human beings on

this planet who live their whole lives without dairy

and are doing great. There is nothing *incomplete*

about a dairy-free diet, in fact the opposite. Humans

were never meant to drink the milk of other animals.

> And of course no one is shoving milk down your

> throat, but I am getting fantastically well from

> drinking it, all my yeasties are going away!!!

Mind if I ask your blood type? It's possible you are

one of the rarer blood types, like A or B or AB that

has different results from many of us. I suspect

those blood types might have adapated to dairy and be

more evolved in terms of diet. While " OLD " blood type

O's have a whole different scenario.

> The

> kefir is great for killing candida and cleaning and

> rebalancing the gut!!!

Yes, but there are a lot of other ways to do that,

that don't require buying products from Duncan

" agenda " Crow.

> But even if you don't want to drink milk, you still

> may find it interesting to read all the new info.

> coming out on the attributes of whey, kefir, and

> other forms of raw milk.

I believe that info as much as I believe a low fat,

high carb diet is good for me. Results can be way too

skewed and right now noone really understands the

human body thoroughly.

In the meantime, I use my own body as a science

experiment. I see which foods cause cravings, which

foods make me feel good, and which make me feel bad.

Luv,

Debby

San , CA

Website for my son Hunter Hudson, born 10/11/04:

http://debbypadilla.0catch.com/hunter/

Got Low Carb Inspiration? Find some here!

lowcarbinspiration/

[Guest guest]

Which bible? There are MANY religions and traditions and MANY bibles!

Actually, ALL of them are probably " divinely inspired " , so go for it if if

helps...... Hugs, Jud

McKelvey <kmmckelvey@...> wrote:There is a Biblical

Christianity support group on the

curezone site. Maybe you should take this problem

there. http://curezone.com/forums/f.asp?f=462 & t=16544

Regards

McKelvey U.K.

--- rose marie belforti <todo2@...> wrote:

---------------------------------

Debbie,

I am not going to get into more religious stuff here,

but just to say, how can a person believe in God, but

not accept what God wrote the Bible.

McKelvey

Forever Living Products Independent Distributor

___________________________________________________________

Messenger - want a free and easy way to contact your friends online?

http://uk.messenger.