RE: - Conflicting test results

[Guest guest]

Hi & welcome,

I also have Hashi's (as well as hypo). Let's see if I can explain this stuff

right to you. Someone jump in and correct me if I explain it wrong.

Thing is with Hashi's is your TSH may be perfectly normal and you still have all

the hypo symptoms. If your antibodies are high (an indication of Hashi's), then

you're gonna feel bad (regardless of what your TSH is).

Also, if you have Hashi's, you can basically just throw the test results

out...they pretty much don't mean a whole lot of anything because the antibodies

can skew the results of your thyroid tests.

Here's an excerpt from a link to explain it:

The next two tests you’ll find very interesting. They are called ‘Thyroid

Antibodies,' and come in two forms, ‘Anti-Microsomal Antibodies’ and

‘Anti-Thryoglobulin (Thyroid Peroxidase) Antibodies.' These often elevate

postpartum.8 I notice your symptoms got worse after having your second child.”

“Yes, I haven’t been able to do anything at all. What were my numbers?”

“They were off the chart. Normally, they should be undetectable, but yours were

1,532 and 939 respectively. You have Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis. You may have even

had these antibodies all your life. There is no way to know. The other doctors

never tested you for them.”

“I’m mad, that’s true. But right now I just want to get better. What do I need

to do now? And when will I need to come back to be retested?”

“Interestingly enough, you will never need another thyroid blood test again.”

“Back up a minute...Didn’t you say I had Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis? Don’t you need

to follow my blood counts every three months like the other doctors have been

doing?”

“These blood tests – they don’t work for you. They didn’t help you over the last

15 years you’ve been having problems, even when your problems became worse over

the last two. It is because these thyroid antibodies variably bind up the

hormones you have. There is no way to tell how much thyroid hormone you need

based upon blood tests.”

’s eyes were rolling back into her head and her mouth was sagging open.

She obviously needed more of an explanation. “Let’s try another analogy. When a

traffic helicopter flies overhead, it sees all the cars on the road – and says,

‘There’s plenty of transportation to take people around the city.’ But what if a

meter maid noticed they didn’t pay their parking tickets and put a red parking

boot on some of them. They wouldn’t be able to go anywhere. In order to have

enough transportation for the city – you might need twice as many cars.

Unfortunately – there is no way to know how vicious that meter maid is – we just

know that she is there. There is no way to know how much of a negative effect

those thyroid antibodies are having, we just know that they are there. The

presence of thyroid antibodies throws off every thyroid test, including the

TSH.”

was exasperated. Slumping back in her chair, “Then how will I ever know

how much medicine to be on?”

“You forgot, there is one more type of testing that will be most effective for

you.” became interested again and leaned forward. “We should test the

effect that thyroid hormones have on your body. With hormone resistance, it is

often easier and more effective to test the function of the hormone, not the

actual level. This idea isn’t new. In Type II Diabetes, we know there is insulin

hormone resistance. We don’t check insulin levels – we check what it does by

monitoring your blood sugar levels. There are many different types of thyroid

hormone resistance. In addition to the Reverse T3 phenomenon and Thyroid

Antibodies, some people are deficient of essential fatty acids or other

vitamins, limiting thyroid hormone’s ability to get into the brain or other

cells to have its full effect.9,10 We just have to check what thyroid hormone

does in your body.

“Though active thyroid hormone is needed to lower cholesterol and blood

pressure, to raise blood sugar when hypoglycemic, and to convert beta-carotene

into Vitamin A, there is no specific blood test to show whether thyroid hormone

is working properly or not. Dr. Broda , MD, PhD, who wrote one of the

first books on hypothyroidism, ‘Hypothyroidism: the unsuspected illness,'

described a simple temperature test using a mercury thermometer.11 Mercury

thermometers are more accurate than digital ones, and because they are hard to

find nowadays, I’ll sell one to you for a dollar (that’s all they cost me). Here

is a handout to describe how to do the test.

Here's the link so you can read the whole article:

http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/woliner.htm

So, you took the bovine hormone and you felt so much better yet your TSH went

up, indicating you should feel worse. However, your antibodies probably went way

down. If they hadn't of gone done, I'm sure you would not have felt better.

Also, when we have Hashi's, it's hard to know when the test results are even

accurate to begin with.

The best way to know how you're doing is by your symptoms. According to your

symptoms you felt great on the bovine gladular. Look at that and not your TSH!

Hashimoto's can cause you to become hypothyroid...but not necessarily.

Take care & let us know if you we can help you further. Best Wishes, Sheila

<jumu65@...> wrote:

Hello all, I've just joined this group and hope you can de-mystify

some confusing results and symptoms. I'll try to make it brief:

I am 38, I was hyperthyroid at 19 and was " cured " by taking thyroid

tablets for 3 months. My regular thyroid TSH tests over the years

showed no problems.

I was diagnosed in January 2003 with Hashimoto's Thyroiditis and

although my TSH (1.31) and Free T-4 (0.9) were in range, I had

endless symptoms which appeared hypothyroid: blurred vision,

myalgia, exhaustion, weight gain, constipation, apathy, no energy,

migraines, tingling nerves, extreme intolerance to cold (and we live

in Florida!), hair falling out, low libido, dry skin, fuzzy-headed,

night sweats. I had an MRI scan and a nerve test which came out 100%

fine.

Throughout 2003 I took Nuthroid, a non-prescriptive bovine thyroid

glandular tablet, and my life changed. All of the symptoms either

disappeared or reduced drastically. I also took up regular yoga,

which is a terrific fix for the unbearable high stress I was going

through at that time.

Here's the confusing bit: During the bovine glandular medicine

time, my TSH levels rose from 1.31 to 4.92 to 6.9, which means I

should have been feeling " more hypothyroid " , and yet I was feeling

more and more fantastic! After reading more about mad cow's

disease, and also a bit concerned about the climbing TSH, I stopped

the bovine glandular at the end of 2003. Within 3 weeks, my TSH

came down to 5.26 and within 6 weeks, it was down to 4.4 and I'd bet

that in a few months' time it will be even lower.

This year, my stress levels have reduced considerably, and I do

believe that the high stress was a trigger for my hypothyroid

symptoms. I went to an endocrinologist at the Mayo Clinic this

month and he said that my TSH (now 4.4) and Free T4 tests show that

I was NOT and am NOT hypothyroid, regardless of my symptoms. He

said that my Hashimoto's and previous hyperthyroid means that I will

have a tendency to become hypothyroid, and recommended regular tests

to keep an eye on the TSH levels. What he couldn't explain is why I

had hypothyroid symptoms during 2003 with " normal " TSH & FreeT4, and

why those symptoms disappeared as my TSH was climbing higher and I

was supposedly becoming more hypothyroid. Could the Hashimoto's

make me hypothryoid, even though the other tests are " normal " ?

I'd like to go to a local endo in South Florida and have been

referred to Dr Tamara Bowman, Dr Marc Frager and Dr Mirtha

Kelijman. Has anyone visited them? I'm looking for some answers

that I didn't get at the Mayo Clinic.

Sorry this was so long, but I wanted to paint the picture and hope

that someone can give a better/different explanation.

Thanks for reading.

[Guest guest]

You're quite welcome for the info, . Yes, you're right...seems we all do

react differently. Our bodies are different, and what works for one may not work

for another.

Believe it or not, they do measure antibodies over 70. I know some folks whose

anti-TPO antibodies were over a 1,000! Crazy, huh?

hugs, Sheila

<jumu65@...> wrote:

Sheila,

A big thank you for the info - yes, it seems to be that each one of

us Hashi's should be monitoring our own unique bodies and symptoms

and doing what makes sense, with not much help from the test results.

Your explanation is logical. I can't tell whether my antibodies

went down or up when I was feeling wonderful, as the tests always

showed >70 - apparently they don't bother measuring beyond that,

once the figure is so far off the scale?

Thanks again for some Hashi's clarification,

> Hello all, I've just joined this group and hope you can de-mystify

> some confusing results and symptoms. I'll try to make it brief:

>

> I am 38, I was hyperthyroid at 19 and was " cured " by taking

thyroid

> tablets for 3 months. My regular thyroid TSH tests over the years

> showed no problems.

>

> I was diagnosed in January 2003 with Hashimoto's Thyroiditis and

> although my TSH (1.31) and Free T-4 (0.9) were in range, I had

> endless symptoms which appeared hypothyroid: blurred vision,

> myalgia, exhaustion, weight gain, constipation, apathy, no energy,

> migraines, tingling nerves, extreme intolerance to cold (and we

live

> in Florida!), hair falling out, low libido, dry skin, fuzzy-

headed,

> night sweats. I had an MRI scan and a nerve test which came out

100%

> fine.

>

> Throughout 2003 I took Nuthroid, a non-prescriptive bovine thyroid

> glandular tablet, and my life changed. All of the symptoms either

> disappeared or reduced drastically. I also took up regular yoga,

> which is a terrific fix for the unbearable high stress I was going

> through at that time.

>

> Here's the confusing bit: During the bovine glandular medicine

> time, my TSH levels rose from 1.31 to 4.92 to 6.9, which means I

> should have been feeling " more hypothyroid " , and yet I was feeling

> more and more fantastic! After reading more about mad cow's

> disease, and also a bit concerned about the climbing TSH, I

stopped

> the bovine glandular at the end of 2003. Within 3 weeks, my TSH

> came down to 5.26 and within 6 weeks, it was down to 4.4 and I'd

bet

> that in a few months' time it will be even lower.

>

> This year, my stress levels have reduced considerably, and I do

> believe that the high stress was a trigger for my hypothyroid

> symptoms. I went to an endocrinologist at the Mayo Clinic this

> month and he said that my TSH (now 4.4) and Free T4 tests show

that

> I was NOT and am NOT hypothyroid, regardless of my symptoms. He

> said that my Hashimoto's and previous hyperthyroid means that I

will

> have a tendency to become hypothyroid, and recommended regular

tests

> to keep an eye on the TSH levels. What he couldn't explain is why

I

> had hypothyroid symptoms during 2003 with " normal " TSH & FreeT4,

and

> why those symptoms disappeared as my TSH was climbing higher and I

> was supposedly becoming more hypothyroid. Could the Hashimoto's

> make me hypothryoid, even though the other tests are " normal " ?

>

> I'd like to go to a local endo in South Florida and have been

> referred to Dr Tamara Bowman, Dr Marc Frager and Dr Mirtha

> Kelijman. Has anyone visited them? I'm looking for some answers

> that I didn't get at the Mayo Clinic.

>

> Sorry this was so long, but I wanted to paint the picture and hope

> that someone can give a better/different explanation.

>

> Thanks for reading.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi , Yeah, it's true that you either have antibodies or you don't. Most

docs don't usually test them after the first time because it does indicate

Hashi's.

I do know there are some folks who have gotten their antibodies retested when

they're feeling really, really bad and can't figure out what's going on. Seems

like their antibodies have gone way up and their thyroid is under full scale

attack...maybe more so than before.

I think when your antibodies are like over 1,000 that says your body has got a

real war going on inside. Anything over like, what is it--2--is indicative of

Hashi's. My understanding is that the higher that antibody count, the more of a

beating your body is taking.

I may be wrong though. some day when I get some time I'll see if I can find some

articles...I just gotta make myself do some homework right now

How's the wedding planning coming??? It's getting close!!!

Take care, & have a great weekend! Hugs, Sheila

K a r e n P <karlynn17@...> wrote:

hi,

my sister's antibody results was 60 and her dr. told her not to worry. I

thought you had them or you didn't. Isn't that indicative of the start of

hashi's?

----Original Message Follows----

From: " "

Reply-hypothyroidism

hypothyroidism

Subject: Sheila - Conflicting test results

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 03:34:31 -0000

Sheila,

A big thank you for the info - yes, it seems to be that each one of

us Hashi's should be monitoring our own unique bodies and symptoms

and doing what makes sense, with not much help from the test results.

Your explanation is logical. I can't tell whether my antibodies

went down or up when I was feeling wonderful, as the tests always

showed >70 - apparently they don't bother measuring beyond that,

once the figure is so far off the scale?

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[Guest guest]

THanks Sheila,

Yeah I need to remind her to get on that. I don't know where I come from

b/c both of my sisters are so passive when it comes to this stuff. So, her

antibodies were 60 and her TSH was 2, so she believed her dr. when he told

her she was fine. I tried to explain to her that TSH is like a pendulum

swinging from hypo to hyper back to hypo.

Yeah, wedding planning is going well (getting married in mid May). I'm

doing the calligraphy for the addressed enveloped and it's fun but a lot of

work. I can only do it when baby is sleeping but I'm half way done. Thanks

for asking.....Next Friday, I get my wisdom teeth out - yah

Tina,I really appreciate all of your comments as well. I'm still looking

into stuff right now - it can get really overwhelming. I'm thinking of

switching docs but am afraid that I won't like the next one either. I'm

hoping that insurance will pay for a consult without me having to committ to

her.

----Original Message Follows----

From: Kemal Kalajdzic <kemalandsheila@...>

Reply-hypothyroidism

hypothyroidism

Subject: RE: - Conflicting test results

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 09:15:04 -0800 (PST)

Hi , Yeah, it's true that you either have antibodies or you don't. Most

docs don't usually test them after the first time because it does indicate

Hashi's.

I do know there are some folks who have gotten their antibodies retested

when they're feeling really, really bad and can't figure out what's going

on. Seems like their antibodies have gone way up and their thyroid is under

full scale attack...maybe more so than before.

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