Guest guest Posted October 31, 2001 Report Share Posted October 31, 2001 In a message dated 10/31/2001 8:02:30 AM Pacific Standard Time, mindy@... writes: What about Armous, which contains both T3 and T4? What is the benefit of something that has only T3? Also what do you think of this web page? http://yarchive.net/med/thyroid_extract.html Mindy, As far as the doctor's comments on the web link, he pretty much parrots the standard, Synthroid marketing line. I really feel the major drug companies are little more than scumbags who will do or say anything for an increase in market share. And most doctors are in the position of swallowing the information they get from free seminars put on by drug manufacturers on what is the best treatment for any given disease or health condition. For some people, Armour works well. It was the standard of treatment for decades before synthethic T4 only pills (i.e., Synthroid) took over the market for thyroid care. As far as how well it works, I think that's an individual thing. I know several friends who have and continue to do well on Armour and I see no reason for their medicine, "silly" as it is, according to the doc on that web link, to be yanked in the service of "modern chemistry" or market share. Unfortunately, or maybe fortunately, Armour didn't work for me; I felt worse on it than I had on Synthroid/Cytomel combo. But the experience with Armour led me to a new doc who is versed in clinical diagnosis of low thyroid symptoms rather than the lazy way of relying only on blood tests. He immediately recognized symptoms of low thyroid system dysfunction and started me on the timed-release T3 protocol, which has been helping me in so many ways over the past months. I'm really excited to be feeling so much better and to be seeing the opportunity ahead of me to truly and finally GET WELL with this interesting treatment plan! As far as why the T3 works better than T4 only or T4/T3 combo's I only have the information I've read from Dr. 's Manual which I read in preparation for going on the treatment plan. I'll explain it to you as best as I can, letting you know up front, that I can't speak for the 's people. I hope I'm getting the gist of the idea summed up here. But if what I say isn't clear you can get a lot of complete information from their web site: www.wilsonsthyroidsyndrome.com. Also, 's treatment isn't for everyone, though personally I think low body temps should be investigated and some treatment for it employed. Bodies aren't meant to function at lower than normal temps for any period of time just as they aren't meant to function at higher than normal temps either. Would you let your kid go on months or years with a 104 degree fever without treatment? Well, I think neither should we stand for doctors who let us go on months or years with sub-normal temps in the 97s or even 96s! What I understand Dr. suggests is that it's not just the thyroid gland that needs to be targeted in a treatment protocol for hypothyroidism. His idea is that many cases of hypothyroidism are a SYSTEM dysfunction rather than a glandular dysfunction and that body temperature is the means of telling if the thyroid SYSTEM is working together to produce the proper output--body temperature at exactly 98.6 degrees. That is the temp where the proper production of enzymes and hromones takes place, digestion proceeds easily, cell repair happens apace, etc. (and lots of other more wholistically inclined docs, like Dr. Derry on thyroid.about.com) states that the pituitary gland is very sensitive to T4, more so than other glands or body tissues in the body and it will shut down its production of TSH in response to high levels of that hormone which can leave the rest of the body classically hypothyroid yet with blood work that shows "normal." further thinks that in some folks, during or shortly after a period of stress in their lives, the body somehow slows down to conserve energy, part of our million years of genetic wiring for survival, I guess. But some folks' bodies don't rev back up again when the car accident or whatever is over and they remain in a continually slowed down state. In this state, postulates that the body keeps putting out T4 that somehow gets converted into Reverse T3 instead of Regular T3 in the tissues (which is where T4 to T3 conversion happens) thus bogging down the body system and starving the cells of Regular T3 which is essential for life. So, if you're still with me, 's protocol involves stimulating the system with pure T3 in a timed released manner so it goes in slowly and evenly over 12 hours. The purpose is to give the body cells their much needed T3 and also to begin clearing out the cells and tissues of RT3 and excess T4. When you supplement with T3 the body gets stimulated and begins producing its own T3 so the 's protocol is very strict in dosing so as to pay attention to body symptoms and signs of too much T3. Also, doseage levels and timing of medicine intake is strictly controlled so an even, smooth shift from endogenous T3 production to exogenous supplementation and back to endogenous production is achieved as much as possible. The medicine isn't a lifetime thing, nor is it a one dose fits all forever proposition. The medicine is started at a very low amount then gradually and smoothly increased to a relatively high level. This is when all the T3 is being supplied from the medicine. Then, the process is reversed, the patient gradually weaning the dose every few days back to the low, starting level. At this point, the body's system is in full control and usually doing a better job (at least hopefully) of its own T4 to T3 conversion. All the while, the patient monitors their temperatures daily as an immediate guide to what doseage level is personally optimal to bring body temps back up to 98.6. (As a personal note, coming down on my first cycle, I've found I've kept most of the improvements I gained from the high doses of T3, such as increased body temps, clearer mental processing, more energy, so the theory seems to be working in actuality in my body with this protocol.) This cycle is repeated as often as necessary to clear out the body tissues of the backlogged RT3/T4 and restart the thyroid SYSTEM function so the patient's body handles T4 to T3 conversion properly on its own. Often, folks who've done the T3 only protocol called 's find their thyoid system function returns to normal and they need no extra thyroid drug replacement afterward! Some, get improved thyroid system function but find they a need small amount of outside T4 supplementation, smaller than their previous dose, and yet they feel better than before the 's treatments. My apologies for the length of this email and also to 's people if I've mistated or misunderstood the basics of the protocol. Again, what I've told you is the process and theory as I've understood it. You can find more information on the web site link I gave above. I hope this answers your question. in LA "We are each responsible for our own life--no other person is or even *can* be." Oprah Winfrey http://geocities.com/llheinsohn/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2002 Report Share Posted January 7, 2002 No, I've never heard of that but it makes sense because one hormone affects the other. Is there any way you can get off of birth control pills? Tammy T3> > > Hi everyone,> > My T3 count has gone down since I started> Synthroid 2 1/2 months ago. It > went from 130 to 120. Doesn't this show that my> body isn't converting T4 to > T3? I know I'm still in the normal range, but I'm> toward the lower end. I > haven't lost a pound, but I have lost most of my> water retention in my face > and belly, so I do look better. Thankfully, I'm> not gaining weight (I was > gaining a pound a week until I started meds). I> think the T3 not converting > is why I haven't lost weight. I'm going to a> specialist at the end of the > month and would like to be as informed as> possible. Please give me any info > you know. Thanks a bunch.> > - Boston> > > >_________________________________________________________________> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device:> http://mobile.msn.com> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2002 Report Share Posted January 7, 2002 thanks Tammy Please let me know what your dr. says about not converting. Does anyone know why one's body doesn't convert? Has anyone gone on supplemental T3 when their lab was in the " normal " range? ----Original Message Follows---- From: " Tammy Fuller " <tfuller@...> Reply-hypothyroidism <hypothyroidism > Subject: Re: T3 Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 13:58:34 -0500 Hi , My T3 level was the only value out of the normal range and my endocrinologist said it was either because my body couldn't convert or wouldn't convert. I'm on Armour thyroid and cytomel and haven't lost any weight but at least I've stopped gaining. I'm planning on asking him if there is any way to find out why my body's not converting at my appointment Wednesday. If you're not on a T3 supplement now I would recommend you read up about it to be informed about what the studies are showing about using it along with synthroid or whatever T4 supplement you're on. Good luck. In Health, Tammy T3 Hi everyone, My T3 count has gone down since I started Synthroid 2 1/2 months ago. It went from 130 to 120. Doesn't this show that my body isn't converting T4 to T3? I know I'm still in the normal range, but I'm toward the lower end. I haven't lost a pound, but I have lost most of my water retention in my face and belly, so I do look better. Thankfully, I'm not gaining weight (I was gaining a pound a week until I started meds). I think the T3 not converting is why I haven't lost weight. I'm going to a specialist at the end of the month and would like to be as informed as possible. Please give me any info you know. Thanks a bunch. - Boston _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2002 Report Share Posted January 10, 2002 thanks Tammy Please let me know what your dr. says about not converting. Does anyone know why one's body doesn't convert? Has anyone gone on supplemental T3 when their lab was in the "normal" range? , I'm sorry. I totally forgot to ask him if you can believe that. That's because my T3 was originally the only number that was low. (my T4 was borderline low and my TSH was less than 2) Now with Armour and cytomel treatment my T3 is the same and my TSH and T4 are now low too. I was so confused about why all my numbers are dropping even with treatment that I forgot to ask him why T4 didn't convert in the first place. The consensus between my endocrinologist, a resident doctor, and my husband who is a physician of internal medicine is that my disease was on a downward spiral and I'm undermedicated. My endocrinologist doubled my cytomel. I pray it makes a difference because it's frustrating to see so many people getting good results with cytomel and me not responding. Here I have this wonderful doctor willing to prescribe what so many of you need and can't get because of ignorant doctors, and I'm getting it and seeing no difference. I don't understand why I'm not responding.The good thing is that I don't feel horrible like so many of you do. I just have this uncontrolled weight gain. If I ever find out the answer to your question I'll let you know. Thanks, Tammy T3 Hi everyone, My T3 count has gone down since I started Synthroid 2 1/2 months ago. It went from 130 to 120. Doesn't this show that my body isn't converting T4 to T3? I know I'm still in the normal range, but I'm toward the lower end. I haven't lost a pound, but I have lost most of my water retention in my face and belly, so I do look better. Thankfully, I'm not gaining weight (I was gaining a pound a week until I started meds). I think the T3 not converting is why I haven't lost weight. I'm going to a specialist at the end of the month and would like to be as informed as possible. Please give me any info you know. Thanks a bunch. - Boston _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2002 Report Share Posted January 10, 2002 the only thing i have come across that explains why t4 doesn't convert is mercury poisoning. it intereferes with the entire enzymatic process in the body. supposedly if your adrenal glands are weak, then t4 wont convert either. the solutions i have come up with so far are adrenal support... raw salmon, royal jelly, celery juice, pantothenic acid. and also reating raw animal protein and raw honey. (see the primaldiet on groups). for weight gain you might want to try RAW (unpasteurized) animal fat, cream, butter, avocado. i havent come close to figuring this stuff out, but i'm still trying to understand it. you might want to try gettng your mercury filings replaced and see what happens. i had amazing results with synthroid many years ago, but then crashed extremely hard, and was never able to come back through the use of meds. im pretty sure that my adrenal glands fried out, and then other organs went down as well. this is the problem with meds-- they never really address whats going on to cause the problem. i am going to try armour again now that my body has rebuilt to some degree and hope for the best. there is also a natural product called shilagen that supports the thyroid. you might also want to try tyrosine, phenylalanine, kelp, and magnesium. phenylalanine breaks down into tyrosine. these are what thyroxin is made from mostly. if your body is not breaking down protein properly you will not be getting the aminos you need to make it. if you can stomach the raw animal protein, go for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2002 Report Share Posted January 10, 2002 Arthur, I heard that removing the mercury in teeth actually is harmful, but I don't remember the reason. Re-exposure maybe? Anyone??? I think I heard it on this group. - Boston ----Original Message Follows---- From: " Arthur Luckower " <aluckower@...> Reply-hypothyroidism <hypothyroidism > Subject: Re: T3 Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 22:20:47 -0500 the only thing i have come across that explains why t4 doesn't convert is mercury poisoning. it intereferes with the entire enzymatic process in the body. supposedly if your adrenal glands are weak, then t4 wont convert either. the solutions i have come up with so far are adrenal support... raw salmon, royal jelly, celery juice, pantothenic acid. and also reating raw animal protein and raw honey. (see the primaldiet on groups). for weight gain you might want to try RAW (unpasteurized) animal fat, cream, butter, avocado. i havent come close to figuring this stuff out, but i'm still trying to understand it. you might want to try gettng your mercury filings replaced and see what happens. i had amazing results with synthroid many years ago, but then crashed extremely hard, and was never able to come back through the use of meds. im pretty sure that my adrenal glands fried out, and then other organs went down as well. this is the problem with meds-- they never really address whats going on to cause the problem. i am going to try armour again now that my body has rebuilt to some degree and hope for the best. there is also a natural product called shilagen that supports the thyroid. you might also want to try tyrosine, phenylalanine, kelp, and magnesium. phenylalanine breaks down into tyrosine. these are what thyroxin is made from mostly. if your body is not breaking down protein properly you will not be getting the aminos you need to make it. if you can stomach the raw animal protein, go for it. " Life is a grindstone; whether it polishes you up or wears you down depends on what you're made of. " _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2002 Report Share Posted January 10, 2002 i think it can be harmful in that once you remove the amalgams, your body starts to detoxify mercury at a faster pace. from what i understand, dental amalgam is a lesser threat than the mecury we were exposed to through childhood vaccinations. if the replacement is not done properly then definitely it is a threat. it's a very complicated and controversial subject, but i have heard stories of peopel recovering their endocrine function after getting the mercury out of their bodies. how to do it is a whole other story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2002 Report Share Posted January 10, 2002 , I think if the mercury fillings aren't removed PROPERLY it can put more mercury back into your system. Have the dentist take precautions using a dam guard, glasses and ventilation when removing mercury fillings. Love, Reneé and Jerry rja86@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 6, 2003 Report Share Posted September 6, 2003 I appreciate this information. I have The Thyroid Solution and have earmarked these pages to show the nurse-practioner on Monday. I also ran off some things from The New England Journal of Medicine on the web to show them. I'm so wanting to get on something for with T3 that I'm prepared to switch doctors if they won't work with me. It sounds like I could go off the Prozac and maybe even the birth control that I take not for birth control but for heavy periods that last 9 days without it. Then there are the migraines I get. Those meds cost me $112 for 6 pills! I'm feeling so hopeful I can't wait for Monday! Kathy t3 The T3 Story T What? Let's hear you pronounce it: triiodothyronine. There, now you know why the name is usually shortened to T3. T4 (thyroxine) and T3 are the main thyroid hormones. T3 is five to eight times as strong as T4 (taking into consideration that it's absorbed at a higher rate than T4), and it's biologically more active. T4 is like the food in your refrigerator, while T3 is like the food on your plate. T4 is slow acting, with a half-life of about one week-after a week, you have about half the level of the T4 still in your body, a week or so later you have half of that half remaining, and so on. Its full effects aren't reached until about six weeks after starting or changing a dose, which is why lab tests are optimally done every six weeks or so until a hypothyroid patient has reached satisfactory and stable thyroid hormone levels. T3, on the other hand, has a half-life of about a day. Hypothyroid people on T3 sometimes feel its effects within minutes after taking it. T3 is available as a separate synthetic medication with the brand name Cytomel in the US and Canada, and Tertroxin in the UK. It's usually prescribed along with a synthetic T4 medication. T3 is also part of some combination T4/T3 drugs. In the US, Thyrolar is a synthetic T4/T3 combination. Natural, desiccated thyroid from pigs' thyroids with the brand name Armour is sold in the US, and in Canada, desiccated thyroid without a brand name is made by Parke-. T3 or Not T3 A thyroid gland that functions normally produces T4 and T3. Twenty percent of the T3 circulating in the body comes directly from the thyroid gland, and the remaining 80 percent comes from conversion of T4. Because of this conversion process, most doctors prescribe only synthetic T4 medication (Synthroid, Levoxyl, Levothyroxine, Levothroid, Eltroxin, Unithroid, and others). Many hypothyroid patients do fine on T4 only. However, many others don't, and they need T3 supplementation in addition to T4. If the thyroid gland is malfunctioning and not producing enough-or any-T4, why assume that it still puts out enough T3, or that the body converts enough of its T4 to T3? The addition of T3 often helps with many symptoms of hypothyroidism that may not disappear with supplemental T4 only. It has improved people's libido, memories, and vision. It has eliminated or greatly reduced brain fog, feeling cold, constipation, depression, chronic fatigue, headaches, insomnia, muscle and joint pain, and chronic sinus infections. For some people, but not all, it has helped them finally lose weight. A small percentage of people who try it feel worse or no better on it. T3 Tests Do lab tests show if a person needs T3 supplementation? Sometimes. If the free T3 is lower in its range than the free T4 is, this suggests that more T3 would be beneficial for that person. On the other hand, some people who have posted in alt.support.thyroid have had lab results that did not indicate a problem with T3, but they still had symptoms of hypothyroidism, and the addition of T3 helped them. Lab results do not tell the whole story. However, most people with hypothyroidism in alt.support.thyroid feel best when their free T4 and free T3 levels are in the upper part of their ranges. The exception is with people who are on desiccated thyroid. Because it contains a higher ratio of T3 to T4 than our thyroids produce, people taking it have a free T4 level that's lower in its range when the free T3 level is where it should be, in the upper part of its range. Total T4 and T3 tests can help paint a broader picture of what's happening. Tell Me More See the links at the right on this page. The " T3 References " file starts with medical journal references because they are the most important to doctors, but if this subject is new to you, you'll probably find the articles in the other sections easier to digest first. The above list of symptoms that T3 has helped with is from the " T3: Patients' Experiences " compilation. If you want to discuss T3 supplementation with your doctor, we recommend that you read through the files here, and perhaps print copies of them for your doctor. Because T3 is so much stronger and faster acting than T4, it's important to get the doses right. On pages 285 and 286 of his book The Thyroid Solution, Dr. Ridha Arem describes how to adjust T4 doses when supplementing T4 with T3. Some people in our group have brought this book to their doctors, and their doctors have used this protocol to successfully add T3 to the medication mix. G. Rhoads discusses TSH, T3, and T4 in more detail in his " Thyroid 101 and Basic Fallacies " post. See also the related article, " The TSH Story. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2003 Report Share Posted September 22, 2003 The Test ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- How is it used? When is it ordered? What does the test result mean? Is there anything else I should know? How is it used? A T3 test determines whether the thyroid is performing properly, and is used mainly to help diagnose hyperthyroidism, since T3 can become abnormal earlier than T4 and return to normal later than T4. T3 is not usually helpful if your doctor thinks you have hypothyroidism. [back to top] When is it ordered? A total or free T3 test may be ordered if you get an abnormal T4 test result. [back to top] What does the test result mean? A high total or free T3 result may indicate an overactive thyroid gland (hyperthyroidism). Low total or free T3 results may indicate an underactive thyroid gland (hypothyroidism). In most cases, test results are reported as numerical values rather than as " high " or " low " , " positive " or " negative " , or " normal " . In these instances, it is necessary to know the reference range for the particular test. However, reference ranges may vary by the patient's age, sex, as well as the instrumentation or kit used to perform the test. To learn more about reference ranges, please see the article, Reference Ranges and What They Mean. To learn the reference range for your test, consult your doctor or laboratorian. [back to top] Is there anything else I should know? Many medications—including estrogen, certain types of birth control pills, and large doses of aspirin—can interfere with total T3 test results, so tell your doctor about any drugs you are taking. In general, free T3 levels are not affected by these medications. When you are sick, your body decreases production of T3 from T4. Most people who are sick enough to be in the hospital will have a low T3 or free T3 level. For this reason, doctors do not usually use T3 as a routine thyroid test for patients in hospitals. [back to top] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2003 Report Share Posted December 6, 2003 Sheila, my doc told me that 2 studies just came out about T3. One was favorable and the other unfavorable. Perhaps we could find them. Does anyone know of these? ----Original Message Follows---- From: Kemal Kalajdzic <kemalandsheila@...> Reply-hypothyroidism hypothyroidism Subject: Re: shelia Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 22:21:27 -0800 (PST) Hi tina, I don't mind telling my stories. I just keep hoping for a good one.I think our doctor horror stories (and success stories) can help us learn from each other. I felt like I did and said the right things, did my homework before seeing him, but it just didn't work out. _________________________________________________________________ Don’t worry if your Inbox will max out while you are enjoying the holidays. Get MSN Extra Storage! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 You really need to find out what is causing your Rt3. Low Ferritin, adrenal issues or in my case high liver enzymes plus the fact that I was taking too much T4 for a long time. Do you know what your cause is? If you can correct that, it is estimated in the Rt3 group to be around 12 weeks to clear the Rt3. Venizia > > Yesterday I got my doctor to rx the T3 because of the RT3 problem. When I went to pick it > up they charged me $39.36. I am on the Part D Medicare and called the insurance company. They said what I bought is not a preferred brand, and he rattled off a list of T4 > names. When I explained to him that giving T4 as an alternative for T3 is like giving salt as > an alternative for sugar, that they were two completely different things. > > He is sending a preauthorization form for the doctor to fill out, which (might) bump the T3 from non preferrred brand to preferred, which will be cheaper, but still not the $5 that I pay for generics. > > I'm so annoyed, because they are essentially depriving patients of a medication that could potentially save their lives. > > I am wondering if any of you know how long I'll have to stay on T3 only to get rid of the RT3 > and will I be able to go back to an Armour type medication? > > > > Roni > <>Just because something > isn't seen doesn't mean it's > not there<> > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 I've had ferritin, and antibody tests and they came out in normal range. I'm not sure about adrenal. I'm on the T3 now, so hopefully it will clear. I'm going to try to find someone who knows something about thyroid other than synthroid and TSH. Roni <>Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> From: venizia1948 <nelsonck@...> Subject: Re: T3 hypothyroidism Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 11:42 AM You really need to find out what is causing your Rt3. Low Ferritin, adrenal issues or in my case high liver enzymes plus the fact that I was taking too much T4 for a long time. Do you know what your cause is? If you can correct that, it is estimated in the Rt3 group to be around 12 weeks to clear the Rt3. Venizia > > Yesterday I got my doctor to rx the T3 because of the RT3 problem. When I went to pick it > up they charged me $39.36. I am on the Part D Medicare and called the insurance company. They said what I bought is not a preferred brand, and he rattled off a list of T4 > names. When I explained to him that giving T4 as an alternative for T3 is like giving salt as > an alternative for sugar, that they were two completely different things. > > He is sending a preauthorization form for the doctor to fill out, which (might) bump the T3 from non preferrred brand to preferred, which will be cheaper, but still not the $5 that I pay for generics. > > I'm so annoyed, because they are essentially depriving patients of a medication that could potentially save their lives. > > I am wondering if any of you know how long I'll have to stay on T3 only to get rid of the RT3 > and will I be able to go back to an Armour type medication? > > > > Roni > <>Just because something > isn't seen doesn't mean it's > not there<> > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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