Re: - Anterior Approach and Nerves

[Guest guest]

,

I did not have a two day staged revision. I've had 3 separate

surgeries (1990, June 2004 and April 2005). You can read my story in

the files.

I did have an A/P fusion where he (Rand) just flipped me on the table.

I believe Rand usually does Posterior first stage and then

Anterior/Posterior second stage. (Cam is this right?) so I think the

second surgery was similar to my A/P fusion and yes day 2 stinks, day

3 better, day 4 I believe I went home. Note: I live 5 minutes from

the NEBH.

Also, in looking at the notes from the vascular surgeon it appears he

went into the retroperitoneum and moved my ureter and rectum to my

right side and the iliac artery and vein were moved aside as well.

Once the vascular surgeon got to the L5 S1 disk, Rand took over.

Although it does sound nasty…I don't think they " remove your guts " .

You can do it! There are a lot of us here that did and I don't know

of anyone that regrets going forward.

The best thing to do (IMHO) is to be proactive (learn, eat healthy

foods, get your household set up, arrangements made). It will help

you and it will help take your mind off the details of the surgery.

Also, a lot of people have found relaxation cds helpful. This really

wasn't for me....I just knitted...but perhaps you would find it

helpful.

Best,

Ann

[Guest guest]

& Sharon,

I believe Ann and Martha have it right...I just double-checked my

operative report and it says the vascular surgeon ( Dr Pomposelli,

who just had his picture and article in the Boston Globe last week)

used the retroperitoneal approach. He moves all the illiac vessels

and then he usually leaves for the day.

And no, they don't make you watch a movie....the " spine class " is

more a chance to look at the hardware, static spine displays, beds,

ask the nurses questions etc.

I am not sure if the order of your surgery will be the same as

mine...I am not sure what exactly sets the order...although Dr Rand

says he likes the order he did on me...day one = anterior, day two =

anterior/posterior. I think he said this makes it easier to get the

disc(s) out on day 2, plus the first guy in on day 2 is the vascular

surgeon so it is a little easier to coordinate any schedule problems.

There may be other reasons.... Cam

>

> ,

> I did not have a two day staged revision. I've had 3 separate

> surgeries (1990, June 2004 and April 2005). You can read my story

in

> the files.

>

> I did have an A/P fusion where he (Rand) just flipped me on the

table.

>

> I believe Rand usually does Posterior first stage and then

> Anterior/Posterior second stage. (Cam is this right?) so I think

the

> second surgery was similar to my A/P fusion and yes day 2 stinks,

day

> 3 better, day 4 I believe I went home. Note: I live 5 minutes from

> the NEBH.

>

> Also, in looking at the notes from the vascular surgeon it appears

he

> went into the retroperitoneum and moved my ureter and rectum to my

> right side and the iliac artery and vein were moved aside as well.

> Once the vascular surgeon got to the L5 S1 disk, Rand took over.

> Although it does sound nasty…I don't think they " remove your

guts " .

>

> You can do it! There are a lot of us here that did and I don't

know

> of anyone that regrets going forward.

>

> The best thing to do (IMHO) is to be proactive (learn, eat

healthy

> foods, get your household set up, arrangements made). It will help

> you and it will help take your mind off the details of the

surgery.

> Also, a lot of people have found relaxation cds helpful. This

really

> wasn't for me....I just knitted...but perhaps you would find it

> helpful.

>

> Best,

>

> Ann

>

[Guest guest]

-Ann, Dr. Rand is doing mine also. Mine is in 2 stages too, Jan13th

and Jan 24th.....I am weak stomached and some of the

thoughts..although I agree with being informed, just make me weak in

the knees...,PA

-- In , " ae_mcd2003 "

<ae_mcd2003@y...> wrote:

>

> ,

> I did not have a two day staged revision. I've had 3 separate

> surgeries (1990, June 2004 and April 2005). You can read my story

in

> the files.

>

> I did have an A/P fusion where he (Rand) just flipped me on the

table.

>

> I believe Rand usually does Posterior first stage and then

> Anterior/Posterior second stage. (Cam is this right?) so I think

the

> second surgery was similar to my A/P fusion and yes day 2 stinks,

day

> 3 better, day 4 I believe I went home. Note: I live 5 minutes from

> the NEBH.

>

> Also, in looking at the notes from the vascular surgeon it appears

he

> went into the retroperitoneum and moved my ureter and rectum to my

> right side and the iliac artery and vein were moved aside as well.

> Once the vascular surgeon got to the L5 S1 disk, Rand took over.

> Although it does sound nasty…I don't think they " remove your

guts " .

>

> You can do it! There are a lot of us here that did and I don't

know

> of anyone that regrets going forward.

>

> The best thing to do (IMHO) is to be proactive (learn, eat

healthy

> foods, get your household set up, arrangements made). It will help

> you and it will help take your mind off the details of the

surgery.

> Also, a lot of people have found relaxation cds helpful. This

really

> wasn't for me....I just knitted...but perhaps you would find it

> helpful.

>

> Best,

>

> Ann

>

[Guest guest]

--Cam, Must be hard to flip the patient under all those

conditions....

- In , " cammaltby " <cammaltby@y...>

wrote:

>

> & Sharon,

>

> I believe Ann and Martha have it right...I just double-checked my

> operative report and it says the vascular surgeon ( Dr Pomposelli,

> who just had his picture and article in the Boston Globe last week)

> used the retroperitoneal approach. He moves all the illiac vessels

> and then he usually leaves for the day.

>

> And no, they don't make you watch a movie....the " spine class " is

> more a chance to look at the hardware, static spine displays,

beds,

> ask the nurses questions etc.

>

> I am not sure if the order of your surgery will be the same as

> mine...I am not sure what exactly sets the order...although Dr

Rand

> says he likes the order he did on me...day one = anterior, day two

=

> anterior/posterior. I think he said this makes it easier to get

the

> disc(s) out on day 2, plus the first guy in on day 2 is the

vascular

> surgeon so it is a little easier to coordinate any schedule

problems.

> There may be other reasons.... Cam

>

>

>

>

> >

> > ,

> > I did not have a two day staged revision. I've had 3 separate

> > surgeries (1990, June 2004 and April 2005). You can read my

story

> in

> > the files.

> >

> > I did have an A/P fusion where he (Rand) just flipped me on the

> table.

> >

> > I believe Rand usually does Posterior first stage and then

> > Anterior/Posterior second stage. (Cam is this right?) so I think

> the

> > second surgery was similar to my A/P fusion and yes day 2

stinks,

> day

> > 3 better, day 4 I believe I went home. Note: I live 5 minutes

from

> > the NEBH.

> >

> > Also, in looking at the notes from the vascular surgeon it

appears

> he

> > went into the retroperitoneum and moved my ureter and rectum to

my

> > right side and the iliac artery and vein were moved aside as

well.

> > Once the vascular surgeon got to the L5 S1 disk, Rand took over.

> > Although it does sound nasty…I don't think they " remove your

> guts " .

> >

> > You can do it! There are a lot of us here that did and I don't

> know

> > of anyone that regrets going forward.

> >

> > The best thing to do (IMHO) is to be proactive (learn, eat

> healthy

> > foods, get your household set up, arrangements made). It will

help

> > you and it will help take your mind off the details of the

> surgery.

> > Also, a lot of people have found relaxation cds helpful. This

> really

> > wasn't for me....I just knitted...but perhaps you would find it

> > helpful.

> >

> > Best,

> >

> > Ann

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Martha and Ann for clarifying my misconception, and apologies to all

(esp. !) for the misinformation.

There is clearly a lot to know about this surgery, and I'm one who likes to

know the details, as long as they aren't presented in living color. I guess

I had been unable to imagine doing all that work on the anterior side of the

vertebrae without making a fair amount of room, but of course our parts are

stretchy, our stomachs and bladders would be empty, and surgeons are now

skilled at working in very tight spaces.

It's all quite amazing, really.

Sharon

[ ] Re: - Anterior Approach and Nerves

,

I did not have a two day staged revision. I've had 3 separate

surgeries (1990, June 2004 and April 2005). You can read my story in

the files.

I did have an A/P fusion where he (Rand) just flipped me on the table.

I believe Rand usually does Posterior first stage and then

Anterior/Posterior second stage. (Cam is this right?) so I think the

second surgery was similar to my A/P fusion and yes day 2 stinks, day

3 better, day 4 I believe I went home. Note: I live 5 minutes from

the NEBH.

Also, in looking at the notes from the vascular surgeon it appears he

went into the retroperitoneum and moved my ureter and rectum to my

right side and the iliac artery and vein were moved aside as well.

Once the vascular surgeon got to the L5 S1 disk, Rand took over.

Although it does sound nasty.I don't think they " remove your guts " .

You can do it! There are a lot of us here that did and I don't know

of anyone that regrets going forward.

The best thing to do (IMHO) is to be proactive (learn, eat healthy

foods, get your household set up, arrangements made). It will help

you and it will help take your mind off the details of the surgery.

Also, a lot of people have found relaxation cds helpful. This really

wasn't for me....I just knitted...but perhaps you would find it

helpful.

Best,

Ann

scoliosis veterans * flatback sufferers * revision candidates

[Guest guest]

Hi Sharon...

Just to clarify, if the anterior surgery is above the lumbar spine,

then the only thing that needs to happen is that one lung is deflated.

There's nothing else in the way.

--

>

> Thanks, Martha and Ann for clarifying my misconception, and

apologies to all

> (esp. !) for the misinformation.

>

> There is clearly a lot to know about this surgery, and I'm one who

likes to

> know the details, as long as they aren't presented in living color.

I guess

> I had been unable to imagine doing all that work on the anterior

side of the

> vertebrae without making a fair amount of room, but of course our

parts are

> stretchy, our stomachs and bladders would be empty, and surgeons are

now

> skilled at working in very tight spaces.

>

> It's all quite amazing, really.

>

> Sharon

>

>

> [ ] Re: - Anterior Approach and Nerves

>

>

> ,

> I did not have a two day staged revision. I've had 3 separate

> surgeries (1990, June 2004 and April 2005). You can read my story in

> the files.

>

> I did have an A/P fusion where he (Rand) just flipped me on the table.

>

> I believe Rand usually does Posterior first stage and then

> Anterior/Posterior second stage. (Cam is this right?) so I think the

> second surgery was similar to my A/P fusion and yes day 2 stinks, day

> 3 better, day 4 I believe I went home. Note: I live 5 minutes from

> the NEBH.

>

> Also, in looking at the notes from the vascular surgeon it appears he

> went into the retroperitoneum and moved my ureter and rectum to my

> right side and the iliac artery and vein were moved aside as well.

> Once the vascular surgeon got to the L5 S1 disk, Rand took over.

> Although it does sound nasty.I don't think they " remove your guts " .

>

> You can do it! There are a lot of us here that did and I don't know

> of anyone that regrets going forward.

>

> The best thing to do (IMHO) is to be proactive (learn, eat healthy

> foods, get your household set up, arrangements made). It will help

> you and it will help take your mind off the details of the surgery.

> Also, a lot of people have found relaxation cds helpful. This really

> wasn't for me....I just knitted...but perhaps you would find it

> helpful.

>

> Best,

>

> Ann

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> scoliosis veterans * flatback sufferers * revision candidates

>

[Guest guest]

Right.

They used to remove a rib as well. Is that a thing of the past?

Sharon

[ ] Re: - Anterior Approach and Nerves

>>

>>

>> ,

>> I did not have a two day staged revision. I've had 3 separate

>> surgeries (1990, June 2004 and April 2005). You can read my story in

>> the files.

>>

>> I did have an A/P fusion where he (Rand) just flipped me on the table.

>>

>> I believe Rand usually does Posterior first stage and then

>> Anterior/Posterior second stage. (Cam is this right?) so I think the

>> second surgery was similar to my A/P fusion and yes day 2 stinks, day

>> 3 better, day 4 I believe I went home. Note: I live 5 minutes from

>> the NEBH.

>>

>> Also, in looking at the notes from the vascular surgeon it appears he

>> went into the retroperitoneum and moved my ureter and rectum to my

>> right side and the iliac artery and vein were moved aside as well.

>> Once the vascular surgeon got to the L5 S1 disk, Rand took over.

>> Although it does sound nasty.I don't think they " remove your guts " .

>>

>> You can do it! There are a lot of us here that did and I don't know

>> of anyone that regrets going forward.

>>

>> The best thing to do (IMHO) is to be proactive (learn, eat healthy

>> foods, get your household set up, arrangements made). It will help

>> you and it will help take your mind off the details of the surgery.

>> Also, a lot of people have found relaxation cds helpful. This really

>> wasn't for me....I just knitted...but perhaps you would find it

>> helpful.

>>

>> Best,

>>

>> Ann

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> scoliosis veterans * flatback sufferers * revision candidates

>>

[Guest guest]

No, they still remove a rib. I was just referring to not having to

move organs out of the way.

--

> >>

> >> Thanks, Martha and Ann for clarifying my misconception, and

> > apologies to all

> >> (esp. !) for the misinformation.

> >>

> >> There is clearly a lot to know about this surgery, and I'm one who

> > likes to

> >> know the details, as long as they aren't presented in living color.

> > I guess

> >> I had been unable to imagine doing all that work on the anterior

> > side of the

> >> vertebrae without making a fair amount of room, but of course our

> > parts are

> >> stretchy, our stomachs and bladders would be empty, and surgeons are

> > now

> >> skilled at working in very tight spaces.

> >>

> >> It's all quite amazing, really.

> >>

> >> Sharon

> >>

> >>

> >> [ ] Re: - Anterior Approach and Nerves

> >>

> >>

> >> ,

> >> I did not have a two day staged revision. I've had 3 separate

> >> surgeries (1990, June 2004 and April 2005). You can read my story in

> >> the files.

> >>

> >> I did have an A/P fusion where he (Rand) just flipped me on the

table.

> >>

> >> I believe Rand usually does Posterior first stage and then

> >> Anterior/Posterior second stage. (Cam is this right?) so I think the

> >> second surgery was similar to my A/P fusion and yes day 2 stinks, day

> >> 3 better, day 4 I believe I went home. Note: I live 5 minutes from

> >> the NEBH.

> >>

> >> Also, in looking at the notes from the vascular surgeon it appears he

> >> went into the retroperitoneum and moved my ureter and rectum to my

> >> right side and the iliac artery and vein were moved aside as well.

> >> Once the vascular surgeon got to the L5 S1 disk, Rand took over.

> >> Although it does sound nasty.I don't think they " remove your guts " .

> >>

> >> You can do it! There are a lot of us here that did and I don't know

> >> of anyone that regrets going forward.

> >>

> >> The best thing to do (IMHO) is to be proactive (learn, eat healthy

> >> foods, get your household set up, arrangements made). It will help

> >> you and it will help take your mind off the details of the surgery.

> >> Also, a lot of people have found relaxation cds helpful. This really

> >> wasn't for me....I just knitted...but perhaps you would find it

> >> helpful.

> >>

> >> Best,

> >>

> >> Ann

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> scoliosis veterans * flatback sufferers * revision candidates

> >>

[Guest guest]

Ok, thanks, .

I guess I was thinking removing a rib and deflating a lung was a pretty

drastic thing. Maybe it just sounds drastic.

Sharon

[ ] Re: - Anterior Approach and Nerves

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> ,

>> >> I did not have a two day staged revision. I've had 3 separate

>> >> surgeries (1990, June 2004 and April 2005). You can read my story in

>> >> the files.

>> >>

>> >> I did have an A/P fusion where he (Rand) just flipped me on the

> table.

>> >>

>> >> I believe Rand usually does Posterior first stage and then

>> >> Anterior/Posterior second stage. (Cam is this right?) so I think the

>> >> second surgery was similar to my A/P fusion and yes day 2 stinks, day

>> >> 3 better, day 4 I believe I went home. Note: I live 5 minutes from

>> >> the NEBH.

>> >>

>> >> Also, in looking at the notes from the vascular surgeon it appears he

>> >> went into the retroperitoneum and moved my ureter and rectum to my

>> >> right side and the iliac artery and vein were moved aside as well.

>> >> Once the vascular surgeon got to the L5 S1 disk, Rand took over.

>> >> Although it does sound nasty.I don't think they " remove your guts " .

>> >>

>> >> You can do it! There are a lot of us here that did and I don't know

>> >> of anyone that regrets going forward.

>> >>

>> >> The best thing to do (IMHO) is to be proactive (learn, eat healthy

>> >> foods, get your household set up, arrangements made). It will help

>> >> you and it will help take your mind off the details of the surgery.

>> >> Also, a lot of people have found relaxation cds helpful. This really

>> >> wasn't for me....I just knitted...but perhaps you would find it

>> >> helpful.

>> >>

>> >> Best,

>> >>

>> >> Ann

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> scoliosis veterans * flatback sufferers * revision candidates

>> >>

[Guest guest]

Hi Sharon...

It probably is. I was really just pointing out that access to the

front of the thoracic spine was very different than access to the

front of the lumbar spine.

--

> >> >>

> >> >> Thanks, Martha and Ann for clarifying my misconception, and

> >> > apologies to all

> >> >> (esp. !) for the misinformation.

> >> >>

> >> >> There is clearly a lot to know about this surgery, and I'm one who

> >> > likes to

> >> >> know the details, as long as they aren't presented in living

color.

> >> > I guess

> >> >> I had been unable to imagine doing all that work on the anterior

> >> > side of the

> >> >> vertebrae without making a fair amount of room, but of course our

> >> > parts are

> >> >> stretchy, our stomachs and bladders would be empty, and

surgeons are

> >> > now

> >> >> skilled at working in very tight spaces.

> >> >>

> >> >> It's all quite amazing, really.

> >> >>

> >> >> Sharon

> >> >>

> >> >>

> >> >> [ ] Re: - Anterior Approach and

Nerves

> >> >>

> >> >>

> >> >> ,

> >> >> I did not have a two day staged revision. I've had 3 separate

> >> >> surgeries (1990, June 2004 and April 2005). You can read my

story in

> >> >> the files.

> >> >>

> >> >> I did have an A/P fusion where he (Rand) just flipped me on the

> > table.

> >> >>

> >> >> I believe Rand usually does Posterior first stage and then

> >> >> Anterior/Posterior second stage. (Cam is this right?) so I

think the

> >> >> second surgery was similar to my A/P fusion and yes day 2

stinks, day

> >> >> 3 better, day 4 I believe I went home. Note: I live 5 minutes from

> >> >> the NEBH.

> >> >>

> >> >> Also, in looking at the notes from the vascular surgeon it

appears he

> >> >> went into the retroperitoneum and moved my ureter and rectum to my

> >> >> right side and the iliac artery and vein were moved aside as well.

> >> >> Once the vascular surgeon got to the L5 S1 disk, Rand took over.

> >> >> Although it does sound nasty.I don't think they " remove your

guts " .

> >> >>

> >> >> You can do it! There are a lot of us here that did and I don't

know

> >> >> of anyone that regrets going forward.

> >> >>

> >> >> The best thing to do (IMHO) is to be proactive (learn, eat

healthy

> >> >> foods, get your household set up, arrangements made). It will help

> >> >> you and it will help take your mind off the details of the

surgery.

> >> >> Also, a lot of people have found relaxation cds helpful. This

really

> >> >> wasn't for me....I just knitted...but perhaps you would find it

> >> >> helpful.

> >> >>

> >> >> Best,

> >> >>

> >> >> Ann

> >> >>

> >> >>

> >> >>

> >> >>

> >> >>

> >> >>

> >> >>

> >> >>

> >> >> scoliosis veterans * flatback sufferers * revision candidates

> >> >>

[Guest guest]

Remove ribs? Deflate lungs? Never stopped top think about what he had to go through to get there ..I was just thinking about the fat he had to go through..This makes me think alot more..This is really getting scary the more I read..Does everyoine have to have that done? Or does it depend on where they have to operate, on the top or bottom of your spine..I suppose the top would be the lungs deflated? I don't know and maybe I don't want to know or think about it?? Boy do I have a lot more questions to ask the good Dr. Racine <linda@...> wrote: No, they still remove a rib. I was just referring to not having tomove organs out of the way.--> >>> >> Thanks, Martha and Ann for clarifying my misconception, and> > apologies to all> >> (esp. !) for the misinformation.>

>>> >> There is clearly a lot to know about this surgery, and I'm one who> > likes to> >> know the details, as long as they aren't presented in living color.> > I guess> >> I had been unable to imagine doing all that work on the anterior> > side of the> >> vertebrae without making a fair amount of room, but of course our> > parts are> >> stretchy, our stomachs and bladders would be empty, and surgeons are> > now> >> skilled at working in very tight spaces.> >>> >> It's all quite amazing, really.> >>> >> Sharon> >>> >>> >>

[ ] Re: - Anterior Approach and Nerves> >>> >>> >> ,> >> I did not have a two day staged revision. I've had 3 separate> >> surgeries (1990, June 2004 and April 2005). You can read my story in> >> the files.> >>> >> I did have an A/P fusion where he (Rand) just flipped me on thetable.> >>> >> I believe Rand usually does Posterior first stage and then> >> Anterior/Posterior second stage. (Cam is this right?) so I think the> >> second surgery was similar to my A/P fusion and yes day 2 stinks, day> >> 3 better, day 4 I believe I went home. Note: I live 5 minutes from> >> the NEBH.> >>> >> Also, in looking at the notes from the vascular surgeon it appears he> >> went into the retroperitoneum and moved my ureter and rectum to my>

>> right side and the iliac artery and vein were moved aside as well.> >> Once the vascular surgeon got to the L5 S1 disk, Rand took over.> >> Although it does sound nasty.I don't think they "remove your guts".> >>> >> You can do it! There are a lot of us here that did and I don't know> >> of anyone that regrets going forward.> >>> >> The best thing to do (IMHO) is to be proactive (learn, eat healthy> >> foods, get your household set up, arrangements made). It will help> >> you and it will help take your mind off the details of the surgery.> >> Also, a lot of people have found relaxation cds helpful. This really> >> wasn't for me....I just knitted...but perhaps you would find it> >> helpful.> >>> >> Best,> >>> >> Ann> >>> >>>

>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> scoliosis veterans * flatback sufferers * revision candidates> >>

[Guest guest]

Vonnie, it looks like most revision surgeries to correct flatback are done lumbar only, whether posterior, anterior, or both.

The ones that involve the thorasic region are usually initial fusions, though I'm sure there must be cases where something later needs fixing in the thorasic.

There's even a minimally-invasive anterior thorasic procedure that is used now in some initial fusions. They do have to remove a rib and collapse a lung, but the only scars are a few small ones under the right arm. Quite amazing. Actually, I'm not certain they HAVE to remove a rib in that procedure, as it seems they go between ribs for access, but in the videos I saw they did remove a rib for bone graft material. (No, the videos didn't show the actual procedure, but were very informative and emotionally compelling.)

Sharon

[ ] Re: - Anterior Approach and Nerves> >>> >>> >> ,> >> I did not have a two day staged revision. I've had 3 separate> >> surgeries (1990, June 2004 and April 2005). You can read my story in> >> the files.> >>> >> I did have an A/P fusion where he (Rand) just flipped me on thetable.> >>> >> I believe Rand usually does Posterior first stage and then> >> Anterior/Posterior second stage. (Cam is this right?) so I think the> >> second surgery was similar to my A/P fusion and yes day 2 stinks, day> >> 3 better, day 4 I believe I went home. Note: I live 5 minutes from> >> the NEBH.> >>> >> Also, in looking at the notes from the vascular surgeon it appears he> >> went into the retroperitoneum and moved my ureter and rectum to my> >> right side and the iliac artery and vein were moved aside as well.> >> Once the vascular surgeon got to the L5 S1 disk, Rand took over.> >> Although it does sound nasty.I don't think they "remove your guts".> >>> >> You can do it! There are a lot of us here that did and I don't know> >> of anyone that regrets going forward.> >>> >> The best thing to do (IMHO) is to be proactive (learn, eat healthy> >> foods, get your household set up, arrangements made). It will help> >> you and it will help take your mind off the details of the surgery.> >> Also, a lot of people have found relaxation cds helpful. This really> >> wasn't for me....I just knitted...but perhaps you would find it> >> helpful.> >>> >> Best,> >>> >> Ann> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> scoliosis veterans * flatback sufferers * revision candidates> >>

[Guest guest]

--

I don;t remember him telling me about loosing a rib.YIKES!!,PA

- In , " Racine " <linda@s...>

wrote:

>

> No, they still remove a rib. I was just referring to not having to

> move organs out of the way.

>

> --

>

>

> > >>

> > >> Thanks, Martha and Ann for clarifying my misconception, and

> > > apologies to all

> > >> (esp. !) for the misinformation.

> > >>

> > >> There is clearly a lot to know about this surgery, and I'm one

who

> > > likes to

> > >> know the details, as long as they aren't presented in living

color.

> > > I guess

> > >> I had been unable to imagine doing all that work on the

anterior

> > > side of the

> > >> vertebrae without making a fair amount of room, but of course

our

> > > parts are

> > >> stretchy, our stomachs and bladders would be empty, and

surgeons are

> > > now

> > >> skilled at working in very tight spaces.

> > >>

> > >> It's all quite amazing, really.

> > >>

> > >> Sharon

> > >>

> > >>

> > >> [ ] Re: - Anterior Approach and

Nerves

> > >>

> > >>

> > >> ,

> > >> I did not have a two day staged revision. I've had 3 separate

> > >> surgeries (1990, June 2004 and April 2005). You can read my

story in

> > >> the files.

> > >>

> > >> I did have an A/P fusion where he (Rand) just flipped me on the

> table.

> > >>

> > >> I believe Rand usually does Posterior first stage and then

> > >> Anterior/Posterior second stage. (Cam is this right?) so I

think the

> > >> second surgery was similar to my A/P fusion and yes day 2

stinks, day

> > >> 3 better, day 4 I believe I went home. Note: I live 5 minutes

from

> > >> the NEBH.

> > >>

> > >> Also, in looking at the notes from the vascular surgeon it

appears he

> > >> went into the retroperitoneum and moved my ureter and rectum

to my

> > >> right side and the iliac artery and vein were moved aside as

well.

> > >> Once the vascular surgeon got to the L5 S1 disk, Rand took

over.

> > >> Although it does sound nasty.I don't think they " remove your

guts " .

> > >>

> > >> You can do it! There are a lot of us here that did and I don't

know

> > >> of anyone that regrets going forward.

> > >>

> > >> The best thing to do (IMHO) is to be proactive (learn, eat

healthy

> > >> foods, get your household set up, arrangements made). It will

help

> > >> you and it will help take your mind off the details of the

surgery.

> > >> Also, a lot of people have found relaxation cds helpful. This

really

> > >> wasn't for me....I just knitted...but perhaps you would find it

> > >> helpful.

> > >>

> > >> Best,

> > >>

> > >> Ann

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >> scoliosis veterans * flatback sufferers * revision candidates

> > >>

[Guest guest]

, the rib thing is only for thorasic procedures. You're looking at

flatback revision, am I right?

How many s are there in this group, anyway? Seems like we've heard from

3 over the course of the day.

(Nothing against ; it's a grand old name!)

Sharon

[ ] Re: - Anterior Approach and

> Nerves

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >> ,

>> > >> I did not have a two day staged revision. I've had 3 separate

>> > >> surgeries (1990, June 2004 and April 2005). You can read my

> story in

>> > >> the files.

>> > >>

>> > >> I did have an A/P fusion where he (Rand) just flipped me on the

>> table.

>> > >>

>> > >> I believe Rand usually does Posterior first stage and then

>> > >> Anterior/Posterior second stage. (Cam is this right?) so I

> think the

>> > >> second surgery was similar to my A/P fusion and yes day 2

> stinks, day

>> > >> 3 better, day 4 I believe I went home. Note: I live 5 minutes

> from

>> > >> the NEBH.

>> > >>

>> > >> Also, in looking at the notes from the vascular surgeon it

> appears he

>> > >> went into the retroperitoneum and moved my ureter and rectum

> to my

>> > >> right side and the iliac artery and vein were moved aside as

> well.

>> > >> Once the vascular surgeon got to the L5 S1 disk, Rand took

> over.

>> > >> Although it does sound nasty.I don't think they " remove your

> guts " .

>> > >>

>> > >> You can do it! There are a lot of us here that did and I don't

> know

>> > >> of anyone that regrets going forward.

>> > >>

>> > >> The best thing to do (IMHO) is to be proactive (learn, eat

> healthy

>> > >> foods, get your household set up, arrangements made). It will

> help

>> > >> you and it will help take your mind off the details of the

> surgery.

>> > >> Also, a lot of people have found relaxation cds helpful. This

> really

>> > >> wasn't for me....I just knitted...but perhaps you would find it

>> > >> helpful.

>> > >>

>> > >> Best,

>> > >>

>> > >> Ann

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >> scoliosis veterans * flatback sufferers * revision candidates

>> > >>

[Guest guest]

Vonnie,

On the one hand I am glad that you are getting plenty of opportunity

to think of things you will want to ask about your proposed

surgery...please don't assume that your surgery would include rib

removal and lung deflation....that will depend on the area of your

spine that is to receive surgical attention. Neither happened in my

case...just your basic anterior/posterior lumbar surgery!

Yeah, basic....right! Cam

[Guest guest]

I'm with you . There is such a thing as too much information. I am glad I found out about all this gut moving stuff AFTER my surgery!

Joyce E

[ ] Re: - Anterior Approach and Nerves

-Ann, Dr. Rand is doing mine also. Mine is in 2 stages too, Jan13th and Jan 24th.....I am weak stomached and some of the thoughts..although I agree with being informed, just make me weak in the knees...,PA-- In , "ae_mcd2003" <ae_mcd2003@y...> wrote:>> ,> I did not have a two day staged revision. I've had 3 separate > surgeries (1990, June 2004 and April 2005). You can read my story in > the files.> > I did have an A/P fusion where he (Rand) just flipped me on the table.> > I believe Rand usually does Posterior first stage and then > Anterior/Posterior second stage. (Cam is this right?) so I think the > second surgery was similar to my A/P fusion and yes day 2 stinks, day > 3 better, day 4 I believe I went home. Note: I live 5 minutes from > the NEBH.> > Also, in looking at the notes from the vascular surgeon it appears he > went into the retroperitoneum and moved my ureter and rectum to my > right side and the iliac artery and vein were moved aside as well. > Once the vascular surgeon got to the L5 S1 disk, Rand took over. > Although it does sound nasty…I don't think they "remove your guts". > > You can do it! There are a lot of us here that did and I don't know > of anyone that regrets going forward.> > The best thing to do (IMHO) is to be proactive (learn, eat healthy > foods, get your household set up, arrangements made). It will help > you and it will help take your mind off the details of the surgery. > Also, a lot of people have found relaxation cds helpful. This really > wasn't for me....I just knitted...but perhaps you would find it > helpful.> > Best, > > Ann>

[Guest guest]

-Sharon,

I am from Pennsylvania.I am having revision with Rand in Jan,13

and 24 to be exact. I do have flatback from a former scoiliosis

surgery from when i was 12. I am 45 now. I usually put PA after my

name to not be confused with the other .,PA

-- In , " Sharon Green "

<sharon.green18@v...> wrote:

>

> , the rib thing is only for thorasic procedures. You're

looking at

> flatback revision, am I right?

>

> How many s are there in this group, anyway? Seems like we've

heard from

> 3 over the course of the day.

>

> (Nothing against ; it's a grand old name!)

>

> Sharon

>

>

> [ ] Re: - Anterior Approach and

> > Nerves

> >> > >>

> >> > >>

> >> > >> ,

> >> > >> I did not have a two day staged revision. I've had 3

separate

> >> > >> surgeries (1990, June 2004 and April 2005). You can read my

> > story in

> >> > >> the files.

> >> > >>

> >> > >> I did have an A/P fusion where he (Rand) just flipped me on

the

> >> table.

> >> > >>

> >> > >> I believe Rand usually does Posterior first stage and then

> >> > >> Anterior/Posterior second stage. (Cam is this right?) so I

> > think the

> >> > >> second surgery was similar to my A/P fusion and yes day 2

> > stinks, day

> >> > >> 3 better, day 4 I believe I went home. Note: I live 5

minutes

> > from

> >> > >> the NEBH.

> >> > >>

> >> > >> Also, in looking at the notes from the vascular surgeon it

> > appears he

> >> > >> went into the retroperitoneum and moved my ureter and rectum

> > to my

> >> > >> right side and the iliac artery and vein were moved aside as

> > well.

> >> > >> Once the vascular surgeon got to the L5 S1 disk, Rand took

> > over.

> >> > >> Although it does sound nasty.I don't think they " remove your

> > guts " .

> >> > >>

> >> > >> You can do it! There are a lot of us here that did and I

don't

> > know

> >> > >> of anyone that regrets going forward.

> >> > >>

> >> > >> The best thing to do (IMHO) is to be proactive (learn, eat

> > healthy

> >> > >> foods, get your household set up, arrangements made). It

will

> > help

> >> > >> you and it will help take your mind off the details of the

> > surgery.

> >> > >> Also, a lot of people have found relaxation cds helpful.

This

> > really

> >> > >> wasn't for me....I just knitted...but perhaps you would

find it

> >> > >> helpful.

> >> > >>

> >> > >> Best,

> >> > >>

> >> > >> Ann

> >> > >>

> >> > >>

> >> > >>

> >> > >>

> >> > >>

> >> > >>

> >> > >>

> >> > >>

> >> > >> scoliosis veterans * flatback sufferers * revision

candidates

> >> > >>

[Guest guest]

One of the oddest of the list of odd things about my fusion was that I had to have first time fusion all the way from T10 up to T3, in addition to the lumbar revision and extension. I suspect my recovery would have been rather easier if I hadn't had essentially, a full first surgery and revision in one go.

As to minimally invasive surgery - I read on the page of the pioneer of this that he is no longer recommending the procedure *except* when it is followed by posterior surgery and instrumentation. Umm - here it is, found the page: http://www.scoliosisrx.com/ Just underneath the info on the 2 surgeons, there is a a note before it gets on to discussing scoliosis. However, I know a guy who recently had an extremely successful correction of a very unusual curve combination of over 80 degree Scheuermann's kyphosis and over 70 degree scoliosis, all in a very short, confined area, at the same hospital although by a different surgeon than mine, and had minimally invasive approach to achieve the anterior release and fusion, so it's definitely been taken on board by some as a way of reducing the amount of trauma to the patient.

I've pretty much been assured that if it comes to it that I need further fusion, lumbar at least, they'll use a posterior approach of some kind for all the anterior work - suits me just fine! I think they'd have trouble using my existing anterior scar to reach that low, so it may be partly down to the amount of scarring I already have and avoiding any adhesions (not that I seem prone to forming them, thankfully). It is again a matter of opinion though - the first revision doc I saw wanted to go anterior again, and I asked him about minimally invasive, but he said with the existing scarring it would be technically impossible - he's clearly a good surgeon though, as I know other people who have had good results from him. I'm still happy with the one I chose though - my gut was right on that one ;o)

titch-- Something unknown is doing we don't know what

[Guest guest]

Cam, well that was good to hear everyone doesn't have to have that done to them. Some things I don't think I really need to hear..LOL But I do want to hear everything even if it's bad.It has been in my mind since I got my dates from on friday..by the way I guess they are doing the 2 stages on me too and they are April 4th and the 28th.It just keeps you thinking about it cause this one seems like it's going to be so much worse than the last 4 surgeries..Oh well I just keep telling myself that I will be able to walk more and have less pain,and that keeps me going.Thanks Camcammaltby <cammaltby@...> wrote: Vonnie,On the one hand I am glad that you are getting plenty of opportunity to think of things you will want to ask about your proposed surgery...please don't assume that your surgery would include

rib removal and lung deflation....that will depend on the area of your spine that is to receive surgical attention. Neither happened in my case...just your basic anterior/posterior lumbar surgery!Yeah, basic....right! Cam

Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at

[Guest guest]

--

Good for you Vonnie!! You'll be right behind me..we can complain and

compare notes!!! , PA

- In , vonnie callahan

<vonniec20032000@y...> wrote:

>

> Cam, well that was good to hear everyone doesn't have to have that

done to them. Some things I don't think I really need to hear..LOL

But I do want to hear everything even if it's bad.It has been in my

mind since I got my dates from on friday..by the way I guess

they are doing the 2 stages on me too and they are April 4th and the

28th.It just keeps you thinking about it cause this one seems like

it's going to be so much worse than the last 4 surgeries..Oh well I

just keep telling myself that I will be able to walk more and have

less pain,and that keeps me going.Thanks Cam

>

> cammaltby <cammaltby@y...> wrote: Vonnie,

>

> On the one hand I am glad that you are getting plenty of

opportunity

> to think of things you will want to ask about your proposed

> surgery...please don't assume that your surgery would include rib

> removal and lung deflation....that will depend on the area of your

> spine that is to receive surgical attention. Neither happened in my

> case...just your basic anterior/posterior lumbar surgery!

>

> Yeah, basic....right! Cam

>

>

>

>

>

>

> scoliosis veterans * flatback sufferers * revision candidates

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Vonnie, Sharon, , everyone,

I definitely agree that it is very important to be fully informed. But, please don't freak out about the gross stuff that happens in the middle of surgery. I'm sure if someone described an actual appendectomy or tonsillectomy or whatever, it would sound gross! I'm for leaving that part to the doc .

Bonnie

[ ] Re: - Anterior Approach and Nerves> >>> >>> >> ,> >> I did not have a two day staged revision. I've had 3 separate> >> surgeries (1990, June 2004 and April 2005). You can read my story in> >> the files.> >>> >> I did have an A/P fusion where he (Rand) just flipped me on thetable.> >>> >> I believe Rand usually does Posterior first stage and then> >> Anterior/Posterior second stage. (Cam is this right?) so I think the> >> second surgery was similar to my A/P fusion and yes day 2 stinks, day> >> 3 better, day 4 I believe I went home. Note: I live 5 minutes from> >> the NEBH.> >>> >> Also, in looking at the notes from the vascular surgeon it appears he> >> went into the retroperitoneum and moved my ureter and rectum to my> >> right side and the iliac artery and vein were moved aside as well.> >> Once the vascular surgeon got to the L5 S1 disk, Rand took over.> >> Although it does sound nasty.I don't think they "remove your guts".> >>> >> You can do it! There are a lot of us here that did and I don't know> >> of anyone that regrets going forward.> >>> >> The best thing to do (IMHO) is to be proactive (learn, eat healthy> >> foods, get your household set up, arrangements made). It will help> >> you and it will help take your mind off the details of the surgery.> >> Also, a lot of people have found relaxation cds helpful. This really> >> wasn't for me....I just knitted...but perhaps you would find it> >> helpful.> >>> >> Best,> >>> >> Ann> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> scoliosis veterans * flatback sufferers * revision candidates> >>

[Guest guest]

Pa,and we will have alot of notes to compare..It's just hearing everything it gets you thinking..Taking guts out and all the organs..Oh well like Cam said I won't know what there doing when I'm knocked out..how true...Good luck on your operation your in Jan...I get confused there's so many of us having this done..Vonnieheatherbenjaminnicholas <heatherbenjaminnicholas@...> wrote: --Good for you Vonnie!! You'll be right behind me..we can complain and compare notes!!! , PA- In , vonnie callahan <vonniec20032000@y...> wrote:>> Cam, well that was good to hear everyone doesn't have to have that done to them. Some things I don't think I really need to hear..LOL But I do want to hear everything even if it's bad.It has been in my mind since

I got my dates from on friday..by the way I guess they are doing the 2 stages on me too and they are April 4th and the 28th.It just keeps you thinking about it cause this one seems like it's going to be so much worse than the last 4 surgeries..Oh well I just keep telling myself that I will be able to walk more and have less pain,and that keeps me going.Thanks Cam> > cammaltby <cammaltby@y...> wrote: Vonnie,> > On the one hand I am glad that you are getting plenty of opportunity > to think of things you will want to ask about your proposed > surgery...please don't assume that your surgery would include rib > removal and lung deflation....that will depend on the area of your > spine that is to receive surgical attention. Neither happened in my > case...just your basic anterior/posterior lumbar surgery!> > Yeah, basic....right! Cam> > > >

> > > scoliosis veterans * flatback sufferers * revision candidates > > > >

[Guest guest]

--

Vonnie and Cam.I am so, so much for being knocked out!! I wish they

could just knock me out for the next few months and wake up to find

it all behind me!!!!!!!!!!I'm with you Vonnie,guts, organ moving ..oh

goodness....Sometimes too much, is too much, but at the same time, I

am with you, I want to be informed.....I guess there is no middle of

road here!!,PA

- In , vonnie callahan

<vonniec20032000@y...> wrote:

>

> Pa,and we will have alot of notes to compare..It's just

hearing everything it gets you thinking..Taking guts out and all the

organs..Oh well like Cam said I won't know what there doing when I'm

knocked out..how true...Good luck on your operation your in Jan...I

get confused there's so many of us having this done..Vonnie

>

> heatherbenjaminnicholas <heatherbenjaminnicholas@y...> wrote: --

> Good for you Vonnie!! You'll be right behind me..we can complain

and

> compare notes!!! , PA

>

>

> - In , vonnie callahan

> <vonniec20032000@y...> wrote:

> >

> > Cam, well that was good to hear everyone doesn't have to have

that

> done to them. Some things I don't think I really need to hear..LOL

> But I do want to hear everything even if it's bad.It has been in my

> mind since I got my dates from on friday..by the way I guess

> they are doing the 2 stages on me too and they are April 4th and

the

> 28th.It just keeps you thinking about it cause this one seems like

> it's going to be so much worse than the last 4 surgeries..Oh well I

> just keep telling myself that I will be able to walk more and have

> less pain,and that keeps me going.Thanks Cam

> >

> > cammaltby <cammaltby@y...> wrote: Vonnie,

> >

> > On the one hand I am glad that you are getting plenty of

> opportunity

> > to think of things you will want to ask about your proposed

> > surgery...please don't assume that your surgery would include rib

> > removal and lung deflation....that will depend on the area of

your

> > spine that is to receive surgical attention. Neither happened in

my

> > case...just your basic anterior/posterior lumbar surgery!

> >

> > Yeah, basic....right! Cam

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > scoliosis veterans * flatback sufferers * revision candidates

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Yes, it depends entirely on what area of the spine needs to be

accessed. While I'm sure it adds risk to the procedure, it's been

done so often by most scoliosis surgeons, that it's just not that

complicated. I had it done as part of my original surgery 13 years ago.

--

> > >>

> > >> Thanks, Martha and Ann for clarifying my misconception, and

> > > apologies to all

> > >> (esp. !) for the misinformation.

> > >>

> > >> There is clearly a lot to know about this surgery, and I'm one who

> > > likes to

> > >> know the details, as long as they aren't presented in living color.

> > > I guess

> > >> I had been unable to imagine doing all that work on the anterior

> > > side of the

> > >> vertebrae without making a fair amount of room, but of course our

> > > parts are

> > >> stretchy, our stomachs and bladders would be empty, and

surgeons are

> > > now

> > >> skilled at working in very tight spaces.

> > >>

> > >> It's all quite amazing, really.

> > >>

> > >> Sharon

> > >>

> > >>

> > >> [ ] Re: - Anterior Approach and Nerves

> > >>

> > >>

> > >> ,

> > >> I did not have a two day staged revision. I've had 3 separate

> > >> surgeries (1990, June 2004 and April 2005). You can read my

story in

> > >> the files.

> > >>

> > >> I did have an A/P fusion where he (Rand) just flipped me on the

> table.

> > >>

> > >> I believe Rand usually does Posterior first stage and then

> > >> Anterior/Posterior second stage. (Cam is this right?) so I

think the

> > >> second surgery was similar to my A/P fusion and yes day 2

stinks, day

> > >> 3 better, day 4 I believe I went home. Note: I live 5 minutes from

> > >> the NEBH.

> > >>

> > >> Also, in looking at the notes from the vascular surgeon it

appears he

> > >> went into the retroperitoneum and moved my ureter and rectum to my

> > >> right side and the iliac artery and vein were moved aside as well.

> > >> Once the vascular surgeon got to the L5 S1 disk, Rand took over.

> > >> Although it does sound nasty.I don't think they " remove your guts " .

> > >>

> > >> You can do it! There are a lot of us here that did and I don't know

> > >> of anyone that regrets going forward.

> > >>

> > >> The best thing to do (IMHO) is to be proactive (learn, eat healthy

> > >> foods, get your household set up, arrangements made). It will help

> > >> you and it will help take your mind off the details of the surgery.

> > >> Also, a lot of people have found relaxation cds helpful. This

really

> > >> wasn't for me....I just knitted...but perhaps you would find it

> > >> helpful.

> > >>

> > >> Best,

> > >>

> > >> Ann

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >> scoliosis veterans * flatback sufferers * revision candidates

> > >>

[Guest guest]

...

You should ask to be certain, but unless one has some very unusual

anatomy, at least one rib needs to be removed if the front of the

thorasic spine is to be accessed. They don't actually remove the

entire rib. It's just the front part. And, most surgeons carefully

leave the sheath (periosteum) in place, so the rib actually grows back.

--Linida

> >

> > No, they still remove a rib. I was just referring to not having to

> > move organs out of the way.

> >

> > --