Guest guest Posted April 22, 2001 Report Share Posted April 22, 2001 Jen ---very well put i like your fact giving in this e-mail ! because you are right in the end what an inspector says is the bottom line sometimes i see what i want and believe in my thoughts strongly . the main reason i do not see saponified oils of .....as deceptive is when i first started that is how i was taught now knowing saponification can mean many different things opens my eyes will i change it right away Allah kows best but you have peaked my interest LOL !! seriously if i ever thought i was deceiving people or that my ideas where misleading in a harmful way (because people i know say lye hum let me try the glycerin soap) i would stop, being on this list makes me see people can be offened by what i see as harmless. i really see it as saponifying and prefered it people where not scared . think about the names used for many different ingredients don't sound at all like their common names but the INCI has a myriad of cooky names for everything. i really don't like arguing and i am by nature very mild mannered (lol) unless like many of us i am provoked--have a wonderful day --tamika Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 22, 2001 Report Share Posted April 22, 2001 Jen-lol! i have seen that at B & BW alot smart guys(or girls) the declaration thing question can you name for me (because i need ot know) the top five (gurl parts LOL) irritants used in toiletries. common names please (i don't have big books with names lol ) -thank you in advance-tamika Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 22, 2001 Report Share Posted April 22, 2001 one correction Tamika...if you make cosmetic claims in any literature, in your sales pitch or on a website you are indeed constrained to follow the regulations - it's NOT just about claims on the label - the FDA interprets ANY advertising or promotion as being extentions of your label. Hey, if you want to label your soaps in a deceptive manner because it sounds nicer, go ahead...just don't blame me when the FDA decides they've had enough of the cottage industry and brings in regulations like they're trying to do in Canada. Interpret the rules any way you want, but just remember, at the end of the day, the only interpretation that matters is that of the FDA inspector. Jules > i don't object to using sodium hydroxide as an ingrdient name i like the > way saponified oils of sounds and in my opinion (which is how this started > when i gave advice to someone about opening up a shop which branched of to > the labeling issue) again in MY opinion it is straight forward . you and some > others heck maybe many others see it different but the government does not > say when you label you must label like this or that unless you make cosmetic > claims on the prominent label (in reference to soap) i don't write laws i try > my best to interperet the meanings . and the bottom line is unless i make > cosmetic claims no one can tell us how to label our > soap. that is the beauty of living and working in america free enterprise. > happy soaping--tamika Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 22, 2001 Report Share Posted April 22, 2001 but just remember, at the end of the day, the only interpretation that matters is that of the FDA inspector. Hi, It doesn't matter what you read on a website, Jules is correct. In the field the inspector is God - what they say goes and then you get to defend yourself later on. But in the meantime they can basically close you down by doing the following: fine you, force a product recall, sieze your goods, and all kinds of other not so nice things. If the inspector says your labels are incorrect then they are incorrect period. Then your product will be not only considered mislabeled but also adulterated. The soap exemption, (not in too much favor with the FDA presently), does not give a blanket exemption where anything goes. It is very difficult to work within the boundaries which are soap - it cleans - no label required. It doesn't include soap - look at all the goodies I put in there for moisturizing benifits and this makes me better than a syndet bar label. You also have to be cautious of what is called an Implied Benifit. If you make a soap, no ingredient listing, but say it contains Shea Butter then there is a percieved benifit by the customer that Shea Butter does something other than clean - you have now crossed into the arena of cosmetic. Now if all of this isn't enough to tick everyone off - here is another issue - if you do label then there are certain colours that are not allowed for use on mucous membranes, (gurl parts). Jen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 22, 2001 Report Share Posted April 22, 2001 As-salaamu Alaikum Tamika, " because you are right in the end what an inspector says is the bottom line " This gives you something to think about, hunh? Khadiyja Y. Ali Shades of the Nubian www.shadesofthenubian.com Featuring Shea Butter Bath & Body Essentials (888) 43-NUBIAN Take time out to enjoy the experience! Re: Re: labeling Jen ---very well put i like your fact giving in this e-mail ! because you are right in the end what an inspector says is the bottom line sometimes i see what i want and believe in my thoughts strongly . the main reason i do not see saponified oils of .....as deceptive is when i first started that is how i was taught now knowing saponification can mean many different things opens my eyes will i change it right away Allah kows best but you have peaked my interest LOL !! seriously if i ever thought i was deceiving people or that my ideas where misleading in a harmful way (because people i know say lye hum let me try the glycerin soap) i would stop, being on this list makes me see people can be offened by what i see as harmless. i really see it as saponifying and prefered it people where not scared . think about the names used for many different ingredients don't sound at all like their common names but the INCI has a myriad of cooky names for everything. i really don't like arguing and i am by nature very mild mannered (lol) unless like many of us i am provoked--have a wonderful day --tamika Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 22, 2001 Report Share Posted April 22, 2001 Hi, I just want to say that I do not believe that anyone is deliberately trying to do anything wrong or deceptive or anything like that at all. There is a lot of web myth out there about any number of things, (just think of all the Urban Legends), and sorting it all out can be difficult at best. You know the thought has occurred to me that in regards to labels there is also what is called " Dual Declaration " . This is used in Europe and I have seen it done here too. For example: you would use the kooky INCI name and in brackets behind you put in the common everyday name, in descending order of predominance. This way you can also get the everyday names on there if you are concerned your customer won't understand the technical terms and you are still using the INCI names. It would look like this: INCI (common) Also, if you use the Dual Declaration then you can also say lots of kewl things about your soap like moisturizes, soothes, exfoliates, etc. I should also point out that no one has ever gotten into trouble with the FDA for *trying* to be in compliance. Jen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2001 Report Share Posted April 23, 2001 i did not know there was lye in glycerin soap. i list the ingredients i add to plus columbus foods clear M & P so maybe i need to double check that because i have not looked at the ingredients since finding out all the names for sodium hydroxide . i just never thoguht about it mainly i make M & P for my boys adding imbeddes etc. but i have had people say they would prefer the glycerin because of the lye (i give M & P away because mine is not particulary pretty i m working on it i have not given it the attention i should ) that was in the begining . my soap has convinced people not to be afraid of lye my comment was an example of why i use saponified oils of.... which also is up for review now along with my M & P ingredients. so to make a long story short it may sound like elementary but there is so much to learn about CP i have read nothing on M & P i just pick up sound bites here and there.- thank you for the question it remindined me i need to check-tamika Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2001 Report Share Posted April 23, 2001 people i know say lye hum let me try the glycerin soap --- 6k5@... wrote: This brings up a good question. Do we have to label the ingredients in glycerin soap? Why or why not? Isn't there lye in there, too? Is it misleading to sell a customer glycerin soap without telling them that lye is in there, too, knowing that's why they switched? What's up with that??? MK __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2001 Report Share Posted April 23, 2001 Hi Tamika, IF you make any type of claim about your soap whether on the label or in your ad material etc. you MUST label the ingredients...IF you say your soap cleans and that's it, you do not have to label unless you wish it to be a courtesy to your customers. Now on to glycerin, cp soaps, and lye. ALL soap repeat ALL soap has either sodium (hard bar soap) or potassium (liquid soap) hydroxide. You CANNOT have soap without one of these two, if you have a bar that is said to be soap, but does not contain one of these, then it is untrue and a detergent. When people used to ask me if I made lye soap, I would give them this long speil about all soaps being " lye soap " even the soaps bought in the stores...finally after explaining it for the gazillionth time and receiving only blank stares, I just simply say yes. I was surprised at how people actually accepted that and in turn it generated more questions and answers about the soapmaking process and I can squeeze in there how far advanced soapmaking has come in the last few decades. I can also give some of the benefits of handmade soap versus commercially made soaps. It seems to me, the more honest I became and stopped trying to " hide " that I used lye, the more people have become receptive to it. My suggestion is that if you do tell someone, " Yes, my soap is made with sodium hydroxide " is to also say, " Would you like to try a sample? You can really tell the difference, and I promise you it is NOT like anything your Grandmother ever made! " Hope that helps you out with your fear of labeling....Saponified oils sound nice, but most folks don't know what saponified means, yep I tried explaining that one too lol Now from what I understand about labeling glycerin soaps, if you do nothing to them except melt and remold, no scent or anything added, you don't have to worry about anything or label other than " SOAP " , but if you do want to label and/or add something or claim something, you must list the ingredients in the original soap base as well as whatever you have added to it. You would treat a premade base the same in regard to labeling, that goes for lotion bases, shower gel bases, body mists bases, premade soap bases, etc. Have a Blessed evening and I hope you get it all figured out soon I hope I've helped in some way H. Kudzu Moon Soaps " They'll Grow On Ya! " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2001 Report Share Posted April 24, 2001 H i just heard Kudzu is a flower in south carolina ? is that true?--tamika Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2001 Report Share Posted April 24, 2001 H that sounds yummy if i can find it i wonder fi it'll hold up in soap ? or if i steep it in oil or water hum? got any info on that? noxious maybe inhaled it can do soemthing beside smell good LOL ! --tamika Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2001 Report Share Posted April 24, 2001 Many call kudzu a noxious weed including the federal gov't lol But it does flower a purple/lavender bloom that smells like a floral grape soda, very sweet and delicious... H. Kudzu Moon Soaps " They'll Grow On Ya! " H i just heard Kudzu is a flower in south carolina ? is that true?--tamika Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2001 Report Share Posted April 24, 2001 thank you for your web site i was looking for it this afternonn LOL my next question was what is your url LOL !! i live on fort gordon@ augusta,GA about 40min from columbia south carolina 5 minutes from aiken,SC etc. but i heard about kudzu from food network and it clicked because of your name Kudzu Moon thank you for your help--tamika Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2001 Report Share Posted April 24, 2001 Oh I've tried it all LOL Kudzu is not poisonous externally or internally Where are you located? Kudzu is spreading north and west but it is harder to find outside of the South... I have made a tea with the shredded root and made my soap with that and I have one customer in Utah who said it was her new favorite....I don't make this claim, but have read that the kudzu root is helpful for itchy skin. The blossoms will turn brown and look like roaches in your soap, NOT recommended LOL But they do make an awesome jelly I'm told, gonna try that one this year....you can have french fried kudzu leaves or cook them like greens (turnip, mustard, etc) If you like you can go to my website and click on the kudzu link and it will give you more info on the plant itself H. Kudzu Moon Soaps http://kudzumoonsoaps.homestead.com H that sounds yummy if i can find it i wonder fi it'll hold up in soap ? or if i steep it in oil or water hum? got any info on that? noxious maybe inhaled it can do soemthing beside smell good LOL ! --tamika Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2001 Report Share Posted April 24, 2001 I live in Aiken county, Warrenville to be exact, howdy neighbor Janice Re: Re: labeling thank you for your web site i was looking for it this afternonn LOL my next question was what is your url LOL !! i live on fort gordon@ augusta,GA about 40min from columbia south carolina 5 minutes from aiken,SC etc. but i heard about kudzu from food network and it clicked because of your name Kudzu Moon thank you for your help--tamika Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2001 Report Share Posted April 25, 2001 In a message dated 4/24/01 12:42:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 6k5@... writes: > thank you for your web site i was looking for it this afternonn LOL my next > question was what is your url LOL !! i live on fort gordon@ augusta,GA > about > 40min from columbia south carolina 5 minutes from aiken,SC etc. but i heard > about kudzu from > food network and it clicked because of your name Kudzu Moon thank you for > your help--tamika > > I have to get in on this talk with all of yall s'uthners! I live in columbia, sc! Who all is from round about these parts??? Angie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2001 Report Share Posted April 25, 2001 I live 50 miles from Columbia, I just went through West Columbia a week ago on my way to Sumter. Nice to meet you. Here are my URL's http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Palms/5787/ Ocean's Dreams http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Workshop/4176/cheese.html Standing In Line For Cheese http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Workshop/4176/HLH.html Help Line House Ocean's Designs http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Palms/5787/design.html Letters To God http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Palms/5787/letters.html Re: Re: labeling In a message dated 4/24/01 12:42:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 6k5@... writes: > thank you for your web site i was looking for it this afternonn LOL my next > question was what is your url LOL !! i live on fort gordon@ augusta,GA > about > 40min from columbia south carolina 5 minutes from aiken,SC etc. but i heard > about kudzu from > food network and it clicked because of your name Kudzu Moon thank you for > your help--tamika > > I have to get in on this talk with all of yall s'uthners! I live in columbia, sc! Who all is from round about these parts??? Angie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2001 Report Share Posted April 25, 2001 You are quite welcome, hope you enjoyed your visit...Didn't know kudzu was a feature on a cooking program H. Kudzu Moon Soaps http://kudzumoonsoaps.homestead.com thank you for your web site i was looking for it this afternonn LOL my next question was what is your url LOL !! i live on fort gordon@ augusta,GA about 40min from columbia south carolina 5 minutes from aiken,SC etc. but i heard about kudzu from food network and it clicked because of your name Kudzu Moon thank you for your help--tamika Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2001 Report Share Posted April 25, 2001 Awww shucks, I'm in NC ain't been no further south than ton SC, but hope to one day make it to Georgia, always wanted to visit there H. Kudzu Moon Soaps http://kudzumoonsoaps.homestead.com I have to get in on this talk with all of yall s'uthners! I live in columbia, sc! Who all is from round about these parts??? Angie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2001 Report Share Posted April 26, 2001 In a message dated 4/25/01 9:59:53 PM Pacific Daylight Time, mom2four@... writes: > Awww shucks, I'm in NC ain't been no further south than ton SC, but > hope to one day make it to Georgia, always wanted to visit there > H. > Kudzu Moon Soaps > http://kudzumoonsoaps.homestead.com > > I have to get in on this talk with all of yall s'uthners! I live in > columbia, sc! Who all is from round about these parts??? > Angie > > > > > > Hi , Where are you in NC? My daughter is in Durham. Angie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2001 Report Share Posted April 26, 2001 Ho Ho, I'm right " above " her in ! Maybe 30-40 minutes away...We go to Durham often to shop...Hubby works down there H. Kudzu Moon Soaps http://kudzumoonsoaps.homestead.com Hi , Where are you in NC? My daughter is in Durham. Angie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2001 Report Share Posted April 27, 2001 Angie i live near columbia ! i actually have a trip planned there for mid may ! I live in the CSRA GA side. i want to check out the peanut shop worst peanuts or something like that you know what i mean down the street from the capital building --have a wonderful day--tamika Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2001 Report Share Posted April 27, 2001 OT sorry--Savannah,GA is beautiful similar in log country charm to ton,SC a can't wait to go city hopping next month -tamika Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2001 Report Share Posted April 28, 2001 In a message dated 04/20/2001 1:47:31 PM Pacific Daylight Time, achil@... writes: << You can list the actual ingredients that went into making your soap or you can list the ingredients that are present in the finished soap bar. In either case, you still have to use acceptable standards. >> Pat- I have never seen this issue so succinctly put.Bravo for that short explaination........Jo Ann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2001 Report Share Posted April 29, 2001 http://www.oshun.bc.ca/INCI.html Marcelle Karustis wrote: > > Are the INCI names available online? Does anyone know > the link to where I can find and learn these names??? > Thanks in advance > MK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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