Re: Vertebrae and Spine Numbering (Jeri)

[Guest guest]

Jeri, I had no pain in high school, but for years as an adult I've had neck pain, and stretching as you describe does hurt as you describe.

You have the numbering correct. It's pretty simple.

The sagittal plane is the plane on which you view an x-ray taken from the side, a profile shot. An x-ray on the coronal plane is a view from the back (or it could be shot from the front, but you would see your side-to-side curvature.) What's the 3rd one called? Is it axial? I have never seen a spine shot done this way, looking down from your head (or reversed), but some modern scans might provide such a view. Sorry I was too lazy to look up the term!

BTW, I always pronounced "coronal" as "CORE-a-nal", but Dr. Rand says it "cor-O-nal", in case anyone wants to pronounce it without embarrassment!

Sharon

[ ] Vertebrae and Spine Numbering (Jeri)

I'm working to understand where my fusions are on the spine. My insurance authorized T4-T5. I think that's where my rod broke... I think that's why I am increasingly hunched andan't reach for things that are as high as I could a couple of years ago. I can't reach straight up in the air either. Does this sound like what he's fixig, or should I be agressive about asking Dr. T about this to make sure he's planning on fixing those problems?Looking at spine diagrams om the web, I's starting to 'get' how it's numbered. C1 is closest to head and goes down to T1 which is the top of the Thoracic group. T1 is top of thoracic. L1 is top of Lumbar group. S1 it top of Sacrum group, going down to the top of the Sacrum group, which is all fused.Do I have these right?Also:I'm confused about Sagital Plane and Coronal Plane, and the other Plane.Another one: My neck has always leaned to the right, making the left side of it appear longer than the right. In high school gym classed, when we sere supposed to STRETCH the RIGHT side of my neck, I had pain on the LEFT side. Anybody have the same experience?Thanks. Jeri

[Guest guest]

Dear Jeri,

Just for fun from your post I Googled" Sagittal plane in Scoliosis" and " Coronal plane in scoliosis" and found some good diagrams among that info, you just have to sort through it. The planes are just looking at the spine in kinda a three d way, we just aren't our side to side curves. A normal spine isn't straight up and down in all planes, if you look at a spine from the side, it has natural sways, thats what Lordosis is, what has gotten flattened out in the Flatback process, and why we can't without revision get ourselves upright and why we are cast forward. A spine has to be aligned in ( or pretty well) all planes to keep us upright, level, and in less or no pain. Most important to getting us better is getting our head centered over our pelvis. So try googling what I showed above and maybe that will give you a better idea what a spine looks like in all planes, complex bit geometry there.

Doc's can sometimes talk in doc lingo, and stuff can truly go over your head. You are entitled to know exactly what they are doing, where and why, and if you don't get it, or are unsure, don't leave his office till you do. It's their job not only to fix you but to educate you, as everyone should understand any malady they have, it makes you a better comsumer, and then you can keep them on their toes too. Doc's love an informed patient, at least all mine do, it lets them know that you are a active participant in your care. The other part of this is research, stuff you'll have to read on your own, and advice and knowledge you will gleen here too. My best advice is keep a notebook full of questions going, so you don't miss anything you want to ask or be informed about. I have been at this whole Flatback thing now for 7 years, and I'm still learning, we should be lifetime learners. We are living in an age where we can go to the internet, and find out reams of info. It's also good to pick your doc's head. It's also grand that being here among us, you can get info right from patients that have gone through the surgery and know what it feels like to be in a very fused body.

Just what everyone has Fused is as different as our curves. I'm fused fro T1 to S1, so only my cervical is not fused, so all my T's are fused, all my L's are fused, and S1. Having the majority of ones spine fused makes for some compromises and challenges, but luckily in my case the pain is gone, so living with a very fused spine is a small price to pay for my good fortune of being painfree. I guess in life it's how you choose to look at things. I have chosen( due in part to my good fortune) to look at the positives, and deal with the negatives. I feel the surgery has given me back a full life, rid of pain. Did it make me perfect or like my able spined friends, no. But I just deal with that and move on. I'm blessed that even though I went through a great deal, 4 spinal surgeries to date, I'm able to find something in me to that sees that despite being given this deformity, and the resulting surgeries and long recoveries, tomorrow is another day and I just have to look at that day as the gift it is. We were born in a time frame where there is sooooo much work being done by amazing surgeons that work diligently to get us better( and there are ranges of better). So while Flatback and Scoliosis sucks, it is something that there is work being done to help us. Will all of us come out like I did, unfortunately not, but for the most part, most are grateful for the surgery, and being more upright, and usually in a whole heck of alot less pain. I also know with the wear and tear our bodies go through with aging, will I always be painfree, maybe, I sure hope so, but if not, I have the gals and guys here to support me and help me find ways to get through what might be thrown at me.

Many of us have part of our bodies due to the scoliosis that are oddly placed. My right shoulder hung very low. I always had one arm that looked to be longer than the other( wasn't just looked that way). I also had a HUGE hump on the lower right hand side of my back, very noticeable. I also looked twisted, my torso looked like someone had taken my shoulders in each hand and just twisted. Many have their head cocked over to the side, I didn't. Revision has improved so much of that for me, that I now feel I can pass as normal. I'm level at my shoulders, my hump is greatly reduced to where now I will wear sweaters. It's the part of the surgery I was most surprised at, how glad I am not to look soooo scoliotic.

Hope that helps, The best diagram I found of the planes was on the SpineUniverse site. I'm not a true computer person by any means to putting up related sites isn't easy for me, but I google my butt off and find almost anything I want info on, wording it to find just what I need takes trial and error sometimes. So good you are asking questions, and with the help here, and your own research, you'll get this!

Colorado Springs

[ ] Vertebrae and Spine Numbering (Jeri)

I'm working to understand where my fusions are on the spine. My insurance authorized T4-T5. I think that's where my rod broke... I think that's why I am increasingly hunched andan't reach for things that are as high as I could a couple of years ago. I can't reach straight up in the air either. Does this sound like what he's fixig, or should I be agressive about asking Dr. T about this to make sure he's planning on fixing those problems?Looking at spine diagrams om the web, I's starting to 'get' how it's numbered. C1 is closest to head and goes down to T1 which is the top of the Thoracic group. T1 is top of thoracic. L1 is top of Lumbar group. S1 it top of Sacrum group, going down to the top of the Sacrum group, which is all fused.Do I have these right?Also:I'm confused about Sagital Plane and Coronal Plane, and the other Plane.Another one: My neck has always leaned to the right, making the left side of it appear longer than the right. In high school gym classed, when we sere supposed to STRETCH the RIGHT side of my neck, I had pain on the LEFT side. Anybody have the same experience?Thanks. Jeri

[Guest guest]

Hi Jeri...

From the top down, the vertebrae are numbered C1-C7 (neck), T1-T12

(thoracic), L1-L5 (lumbar), and S1-S5.

Sagittal refers to the spine when viewed from the side of the body,

and coronal refers to the spine when viewed from the front or back of

the body.

I think you should definitely try to understand exactly what your

surgeon intends for you. It may not be possible to fix it all, and

you should make sure you don't have unrealistic expectations.

Regards,

>

> I'm working to understand where my fusions are on the spine. My

> insurance authorized T4-T5. I think that's where my rod broke... I

> think that's why I am increasingly hunched andan't reach for things

> that are as high as I could a couple of years ago. I can't reach

> straight up in the air either. Does this sound like what he's fixig,

> or should I be agressive about asking Dr. T about this to make sure

> he's planning on fixing those problems?

>

> Looking at spine diagrams om the web, I's starting to 'get' how it's

> numbered. C1 is closest to head and goes down to T1 which is the top

> of the Thoracic group. T1 is top of thoracic. L1 is top of Lumbar

> group. S1 it top of Sacrum group, going down to the top of the Sacrum

> group, which is all fused.

>

> Do I have these right?

>

> Also:I'm confused about Sagital Plane and Coronal Plane, and the

> other Plane.

>

> Another one: My neck has always leaned to the right, making the left

> side of it appear longer than the right. In high school gym classed,

> when we sere supposed to STRETCH the RIGHT side of my neck, I had

> pain on the LEFT side.

>

> Anybody have the same experience?

>

> Thanks. Jeri

>

[Guest guest]

Jeri,

I think you have the spine numbering system down now.

I just wanted to also say that it is not " aggressive questioning " to

have a full and detailed conversation with your surgeon about EXACTLY

what he expects he will do TO you and FOR you. You have every right

to have that conversation and hear answers as detailed as you like.

At my last visit with my surgeon prior to agreeing to surgery I

created and took in the document in the " files " section....5 pages

long. My doctor saw the list, sat down and very patiently went over

every one with me. He never gave me any feeling that I was out of

line or that other patients were waiting. I think in this day of full

disclosure there are not many surgeons that are not going to be happy

to get these out of the way early on.

In retrospect, if I had it to do over again, after I realized how

long my list was, it might have been a good idea to call the office

and alert them to the fact that I was probably going to need a little

extra time to cover my questions....so perhaps it would be worth

letting DrTribus' nurse or scheduler know in advance.

Just 'cause I know you want to know everything...I am reminded that

you will have to sign an informed consent for this surgery, probably

the " day of " . Its a little unnerving....and then the surgeon will

sign your back just so he doen't operate on the wrong spine!

I loved the CD for going to sleep. I did not use it at the

hospital..just up to the night before the first surgery.

Take Care, Cam