the downside of revision recovery (an informal poll)

[Guest guest]

For those of you who are officially 'revised', I have a quick

question.

Have you, at any point since your surgeries, experienced depression

or notable set-backs in your recovery and if so, at what point (give

or take) did such occur?

Thinking back over the recoveries I've witnessed, it seems these

things are fairly common (Lorrie, P., , myself, to name a

few) and I suspect there are others. Sometimes I sense this group

errs on the side of optimism and I don't like sugar-coated (unless

it's my dessert) and would not want to mislead anyone into thinking

that recovery is straight-forward and easily graphable.

So, for the sake of considering multiple perspectives, will those of

us who have 'been there, done that' use this thread to express the

most challenging parts of recovery? We can keep it all contained, but

I think it could be a useful archive for those in recovery-mode to

feel a bit more 'normal'. I know I was sometimes afraid to complain

because I was afraid I'd scare someone away from this life-changing

commitment. HELLO!!! We should be scared! If we're not somewhat

frightened by the notion, we're not being realistic.

Naturally, if you don't want to share, don't. If you don't want to

read, skip this thread. But it might help someone more than you'll

ever realize.

kam

[Guest guest]

Well, I'm already planning my depression... At least I've warned Amit. He's been there so I am hopeful he'll understand.

Sorry for the nutty answer to a serious question, but it does seem very likely for me, especially as winter approaches. So I figure if I plan on some misery and depression I may actually get a nice surprise.

Sharon

(It's three days from tomorrow morning! Yikes!)

[ ] the downside of revision recovery (an informal poll)

For those of you who are officially 'revised', I have a quick question.Have you, at any point since your surgeries, experienced depression or notable set-backs in your recovery and if so, at what point (give or take) did such occur?Thinking back over the recoveries I've witnessed, it seems these things are fairly common (Lorrie, P., , myself, to name a few) and I suspect there are others. Sometimes I sense this group errs on the side of optimism and I don't like sugar-coated (unless it's my dessert) and would not want to mislead anyone into thinking that recovery is straight-forward and easily graphable.So, for the sake of considering multiple perspectives, will those of us who have 'been there, done that' use this thread to express the most challenging parts of recovery? We can keep it all contained, but I think it could be a useful archive for those in recovery-mode to feel a bit more 'normal'. I know I was sometimes afraid to complain because I was afraid I'd scare someone away from this life-changing commitment. HELLO!!! We should be scared! If we're not somewhat frightened by the notion, we're not being realistic.Naturally, if you don't want to share, don't. If you don't want to read, skip this thread. But it might help someone more than you'll ever realize.kam

[Guest guest]

Had surgery in Nov. 05. It was probably Jan. or Feb of this year that I physically felt better but then there was the depression setting in.

Thank God for an understanding family dr. (mine for 20 yrs.) and Zoloft!

Joyce T., RN Atlanta

[Guest guest]

I had periods of absolute misery at times after the revision. It was generally whenever everything had settled, and I'd reached aother plateau, so instead of being able to mark improvements, I was suddenly noticing all the areas that did not seem to be improving.

There's so many changes to adjust to as well. I had the revision in October 2002, so it's nearly 4 years now. Lie ins just don't exist any more. For some reason the revision (well, once recovered enough) made lying down worse than standing or sitting - that's useful for everyday life of course, but stupid as it is, I really resent that once I wake up, I have to get up. I can cheerfully sleep for 12 hours sometimes, but as soon as I'm awake, that's it. No lazy Sunday mornings lying in bed talking for hours - I really miss that. Little things like that can really act as a focus and trigger for depressions.

There was also the fact that, essentially, I never really got any good time after the first surgery. There was always pain, there were immediate problems, and the knock on effect of them such as for trying to gain employment in a depressed area where almost every available job involved standing that I couldn't manage, were profound at times. I had the original surgery in May 1994, and by November 1999 I was having significant difficulties with pain, walking, housework, generally with having a normal life. There was a huge amount of anger over that, and it's not as though the revision was a miracle fix for me. As grateful as I am for what it gave me back, I've remained restricted, so there's no regaining any of it. Basically, from just short of my 21st birthday I've been disabled. In the lead up to the revision, everything was " after you're fixed " , " when you're better " , " when you can walk again " , " when you can do this again " - and for a large part, that just hasn't happened. There are days when my diabetic 67 year old father, with his triple heart bypass and ongoing problems has more stamina than I do. There are times when that can make it extremely difficult to be grateful, and cheerful, even though I am most assuredly an optimist at heart.

It doesn't help matters that people are often afraid of strong emotion - when you're already fragile and introspective, the last thing you need is people trying to tell you you're a headcase for things that actually are perfectly normal. That was another problem at times, trying to hold too much in. That's been well ingrained in me over the years though. For years I had a deep distrust of showing fears and hurts to any degree, and an even deeper distrust of counsellors and the like. I actually did see one last year, at my GPs behest and it's amazing how much it helped just to hear that actually, I was dealing with things in a perfectly sensible manner, and my emotions related to the whole disability thing were normal and healthy.

titch-- The wages of sin are death, but by the time taxes are taken out, it's just sort of a tired feeling - a Poundstone

[Guest guest]

HI Kam,

My first bout with feeling depressed was a few months after revision surgery. It was just taking so long to recover. I sort of felt like the recovery period would never end. That, combined with the virtual disappearance of people I thought were good friends, was too much to bear. But, I did get better physically so the sadness lifted. I think, too, that we spend so much energy gearing ourselves up for surgery and its aftermath, that when surgery is done, we don't need to 'fight" so much, so we let loose, so to speak, and all the natural feelings we've repressed come forward. There comes a point when you just get sick and tired of being strong.

Bonnie

[ ] the downside of revision recovery (an informal poll)

For those of you who are officially 'revised', I have a quick question.Have you, at any point since your surgeries, experienced depression or notable set-backs in your recovery and if so, at what point (give or take) did such occur?Thinking back over the recoveries I've witnessed, it seems these things are fairly common (Lorrie, P., , myself, to name a few) and I suspect there are others. Sometimes I sense this group errs on the side of optimism and I don't like sugar-coated (unless it's my dessert) and would not want to mislead anyone into thinking that recovery is straight-forward and easily graphable.So, for the sake of considering multiple perspectives, will those of us who have 'been there, done that' use this thread to express the most challenging parts of recovery? We can keep it all contained, but I think it could be a useful archive for those in recovery-mode to feel a bit more 'normal'. I know I was sometimes afraid to complain because I was afraid I'd scare someone away from this life-changing commitment. HELLO!!! We should be scared! If we're not somewhat frightened by the notion, we're not being realistic.Naturally, if you don't want to share, don't. If you don't want to read, skip this thread. But it might help someone more than you'll ever realize.kam

[Guest guest]

i haven't had revision surgery, but i remember my original surgery (back in

1967, when i was 16) and becoming quite depressed during the recovery phase.

apparently this is a fairly common response to deep anesthetic -- and with spine

surgery, we are under for a LONG time.

_________________________

thoraco-lumbar fusion, harrington rod, 1967

gilette state hospital for crippled children, st paul, mn

dr robert winter (dr john moe's service)

[Guest guest]

Bonnie,

Yeah....kinda like post-partum depression...and we all know what

that can do! Even so...same thing....you spend all this time growing

a baby and fantasizing about how great it is going to be and then

when the reality of it all hits it can be pretty overwhelming. And

similarly, whoever you though was going to be helpful with a newborn

also seem to make themselve scarce just when you start to really

need the support.

Cam

-- In , " Bonnie " <bonnie@...> wrote:

>

> HI Kam,

>

> My first bout with feeling depressed was a few months after

revision surgery. It was just taking so long to recover. I sort of

felt like the recovery period would never end. That, combined with

the virtual disappearance of people I thought were good friends, was

too much to bear. But, I did get better physically so the sadness

lifted. I think, too, that we spend so much energy gearing

ourselves up for surgery and its aftermath, that when surgery is

done, we don't need to 'fight " so much, so we let loose, so to

speak, and all the natural feelings we've repressed come forward.

There comes a point when you just get sick and tired of being

strong.

>

> Bonnie

>

[Guest guest]

Cam,

Exactly!

Bonnie

[ ] Re: the downside of revision recovery (an informal poll)

Bonnie,Yeah....kinda like post-partum depression...and we all know what that can do! Even so...same thing....you spend all this time growing a baby and fantasizing about how great it is going to be and then when the reality of it all hits it can be pretty overwhelming. And similarly, whoever you though was going to be helpful with a newborn also seem to make themselve scarce just when you start to really need the support.Cam-- In , "Bonnie" <bonnie@...> wrote:>> HI Kam,> > My first bout with feeling depressed was a few months after revision surgery. It was just taking so long to recover. I sort of felt like the recovery period would never end. That, combined with the virtual disappearance of people I thought were good friends, was too much to bear. But, I did get better physically so the sadness lifted. I think, too, that we spend so much energy gearing ourselves up for surgery and its aftermath, that when surgery is done, we don't need to 'fight" so much, so we let loose, so to speak, and all the natural feelings we've repressed come forward. There comes a point when you just get sick and tired of being strong. > > Bonnie>

[Guest guest]

Thank you to all of you who have contributed to this thread. Several

factors played in to the idea, but after communicating privately with

many who have hit that " post-partum " point, I thought it might be

helpful long-term. I guess that the thing about depression is even if

you've been warned it's possible (or even likely), when you are in the

midst of it, it's easy to convince yourself that NOBODY will understand

and that something must be wrong with you...especially when you can't

seem to shake it no matter what. That's why this group is so very

valuable. We all need to know that others understand.

That being said, we might need to do a thread of " Top 10 Reasons to Go

Through with Revision " for those that get cold feet after they've

committed. Whaddya say?

kam

[Guest guest]

Hi all,

Though I have ridden the emotional roller coaster tons of times

since surgery in April 06, I refuse to admit to a downside. Don't

get me wrong, I have burning sensations on the left side, including

my face still, I have tingling. My butt aches endlessly unless I

exercise endlessly. The back of my head burns like I have been in

trauma. I have to keep saying to myself, it has only been 4 months

and you have only been strong enough to get better for 2 of those.

How many years did it take to cripple myself up? Did I have flatback

right out of surgery in 74? I know this, my lumbar did a steady

decline after the birth of my son at 40. So, lets say it has only

been 6 years I have been very crippled on the left side. I actually

expect that 2 months of therapy and walking daily would relieve all

that muscle and nerve decay? The answer is yes, goshdangit. We do

expect it. Why? because if surgeons told us, how painful physically,

emotionally and actually how long real recovery would be, we

wouldn't do it. But besides that, it is human nature to expect a

full recovery, why would we expect anything less. I have felt more

terrible emotionally than I care to share. I have had terrible dark

thoughts that never would have entered my mind pre surgery. I can

only surmiss that I expect too much, too soon. My Lord shall meet

all my needs according to his riches in Christ Jesus. I need to

count my blessing which I will do in another post.

> >

> > HI Kam,

> >

> > My first bout with feeling depressed was a few months after

> revision surgery. It was just taking so long to recover. I sort

of

> felt like the recovery period would never end. That, combined

with

> the virtual disappearance of people I thought were good friends,

was

> too much to bear. But, I did get better physically so the

sadness

> lifted. I think, too, that we spend so much energy gearing

> ourselves up for surgery and its aftermath, that when surgery is

> done, we don't need to 'fight " so much, so we let loose, so to

> speak, and all the natural feelings we've repressed come

forward.

> There comes a point when you just get sick and tired of being

> strong.

> >

> > Bonnie

> >

>

[Guest guest]

---

I think I have come in and out of a sadness/depression state since I

was released from the hospital. I really do not like to go out in the

public too much, I do but don't like to do it. I feel sad inside that

I am not moving at a rate I want to be. I KNOW I am doing well, so I

hate to complain, but you asked. I am still not completly comfortable

in my new body, 7 months post op. I started back to the gym a few

weeks ago and it felt so, so weird on the equipment. I had trouble

reaching devices to change the position on the bike. I could not bend

down low enough to reach the cleaning clothes they have for you wo

wipe down equipment after each use. It was such an effort to go and

ride a darn bike for 30 minutes. I just want to be what I was

preflatback but that will never happen...I sometimes dream about

bending over and reaching something off of the floor with no

restrictiveness. I am not in anyway implying that I am regretting the

revision surgery....never...i just feel sad, I was dealt this hand of

cards...boohoo for me....I think i;ll go have a pitty party for

myself tonight.....,PA

In , " advokam " <advokam@...> wrote:

>

> For those of you who are officially 'revised', I have a quick

> question.

>

>

> Have you, at any point since your surgeries, experienced depression

> or notable set-backs in your recovery and if so, at what point

(give

> or take) did such occur?

>

>

> Thinking back over the recoveries I've witnessed, it seems these

> things are fairly common (Lorrie, P., , myself, to name

a

> few) and I suspect there are others. Sometimes I sense this group

> errs on the side of optimism and I don't like sugar-coated (unless

> it's my dessert) and would not want to mislead anyone into thinking

> that recovery is straight-forward and easily graphable.

>

> So, for the sake of considering multiple perspectives, will those

of

> us who have 'been there, done that' use this thread to express the

> most challenging parts of recovery? We can keep it all contained,

but

> I think it could be a useful archive for those in recovery-mode to

> feel a bit more 'normal'. I know I was sometimes afraid to complain

> because I was afraid I'd scare someone away from this life-changing

> commitment. HELLO!!! We should be scared! If we're not somewhat

> frightened by the notion, we're not being realistic.

>

> Naturally, if you don't want to share, don't. If you don't want to

> read, skip this thread. But it might help someone more than you'll

> ever realize.

>

> kam

>

[Guest guest]

PA

I know just how yu feel , though I am only 4 months out. I work

out in a pool almost daily, my butt hurts so much I want to scream.

I am constantly fighting depression. I keep saying it took many many

years to cripple these muscle, it will take time to get them back.

Are you still doing PT? I find it sooo boring but yet reassuring as

they are so good at telling me how far I have come. I need the

reminder I guess. Here is to hoping you start feeling emotionally

better soon. Hugs

> >

> > For those of you who are officially 'revised', I have a quick

> > question.

> >

> >

> > Have you, at any point since your surgeries, experienced

depression

> > or notable set-backs in your recovery and if so, at what point

> (give

> > or take) did such occur?

> >

> >

> > Thinking back over the recoveries I've witnessed, it seems these

> > things are fairly common (Lorrie, P., , myself, to

name

> a

> > few) and I suspect there are others. Sometimes I sense this

group

> > errs on the side of optimism and I don't like sugar-coated

(unless

> > it's my dessert) and would not want to mislead anyone into

thinking

> > that recovery is straight-forward and easily graphable.

> >

> > So, for the sake of considering multiple perspectives, will

those

> of

> > us who have 'been there, done that' use this thread to express

the

> > most challenging parts of recovery? We can keep it all

contained,

> but

> > I think it could be a useful archive for those in recovery-mode

to

> > feel a bit more 'normal'. I know I was sometimes afraid to

complain

> > because I was afraid I'd scare someone away from this life-

changing

> > commitment. HELLO!!! We should be scared! If we're not somewhat

> > frightened by the notion, we're not being realistic.

> >

> > Naturally, if you don't want to share, don't. If you don't want

to

> > read, skip this thread. But it might help someone more than

you'll

> > ever realize.

> >

> > kam

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I've wanted to reply to this question for quite a while, but I

didn't quite know how to start. I'm only about 10 weeks away from

my 1 year anniversary. I has been such a long and arduous road. Up

until about 6 weeks ago I was so distraught. I was aching all over

and I didn't see much improvement of my energy level. Yes it was

better than it was at the 4 month and 6 month mark, but I was so

frustrated about having to lie down and rest during the day. I was

also frustrated about not being able to sleep at night. For some

reason after I was off the Fentanyl patch I wasn't as sleepy and I

found it hard to fall asleep at night. But I wouldn't go back on

that patch once I knew I was totally off of it.

The patch had a lot to do with my lack of energy. After being off

of it for about 1 month, I was getting a little more " get up and go "

everyday. I did have to rely on more percocet, but now I'm down to

2 percocet a day. One in the AM and one in the PM. I probably

could do without, but when I get tired and sore I get cranky and the

percocet elevates my mood a little. My general doctor is monitoring

my pain and I return to him in about 5 weeks. At that point, I

don't think I will need anymore pain medication but I'm worried

about the dependancy upon a mood elevator if I feel sore. I do

still feel " blue " at times. All the daily chores of a household get

me down when I don't have any help. It is the constant

responsibility of cleaning up after everyone (huband, baby and

pets), preparing meals, shopping etc. If I don't feel better about

these things, I will discuss with my doctor about going on an

antidepressant.

Not only am I trying to recover fully from revision surgery, but my

husband Bill had neck surgery from a pinched nerve in May. About 5

weeks ago he suffered from terrible sciatica pain and we found out

that he had a ruptured disc. He just under went a discectomy and

foraminotomy at L5/S1. He still isn't sure the pain is completely

gone. So right now he isn't allowed to lift, bend or twist for 2 or

more weeks. So that means I have to do as much as I can. Our

daughter is 2 1/2 and has those toddler tantrums - I get so tired

sometimes. I also found out that my 80 year old father has bladder

cancer. They removed a cyst from his bladder and the pathology

report came back as an agressive cancer. He just had an MRI to

determine if it has spread and will have exploratory surgery to

determine if they can cut the tumor out of the bladder. So it is

not just my own recovery that can get me " blue. "

I am very happy with the results of my surgery. I am straighter

than ever. I was walking towards a mirror at my health club and for

the first time, I saw my shoulders were actually level. I'm able to

ride the stationary bike for 15 minutes and the elliptical machine

for 15 minutes. I've also been working out with light weights and

haven't felt sore from the activity on the following day. I try to

get to the health club at least once a week. We have a stationary

bike in the basement and if I don't walk, I definately ride that

bike each evening. I am coming along slowly but surely.

Lorrie Snyder

Revision 11/8/05 - Dr. Boachie-Adjei

>

> For those of you who are officially 'revised', I have a quick

> question.

>

>

> Have you, at any point since your surgeries, experienced

depression

> or notable set-backs in your recovery and if so, at what point

(give

> or take) did such occur?

>

>

> Thinking back over the recoveries I've witnessed, it seems these

> things are fairly common (Lorrie, P., , myself, to

name a

> few) and I suspect there are others. Sometimes I sense this group

> errs on the side of optimism and I don't like sugar-coated (unless

> it's my dessert) and would not want to mislead anyone into

thinking

> that recovery is straight-forward and easily graphable.

>

> So, for the sake of considering multiple perspectives, will those

of

> us who have 'been there, done that' use this thread to express the

> most challenging parts of recovery? We can keep it all contained,

but

> I think it could be a useful archive for those in recovery-mode to

> feel a bit more 'normal'. I know I was sometimes afraid to

complain

> because I was afraid I'd scare someone away from this life-

changing

> commitment. HELLO!!! We should be scared! If we're not somewhat

> frightened by the notion, we're not being realistic.

>

> Naturally, if you don't want to share, don't. If you don't want to

> read, skip this thread. But it might help someone more than you'll

> ever realize.

>

> kam

>

[Guest guest]

Lorrie,

I am so sorry to hear about your father. That must feel like quite a

blow...just when you were starting to see the light at the end of

the tunnel. I do hope that it turns out that they are able to

manage the cancer and it has not spread.

Your account of the last 10 months is such an honest accounting of

the travails of this surgery. On top of your own health you have the

care of an active toddler and an ill husband...zowie! Did Bill have

minimally invasive surgery or the standard issue? I hope he does

well.

I didn't realize that you had finally gotten off the fentnyl patch.

It is good to see that, as you suspected, it was a big energy zapper

for you. I know you were not meaning to be funny....but I have to

say I did have to smile when you said..

" I do still feel " blue " at times. All the daily chores of a

household get me down when I don't have any help. It is the constant

responsibility of cleaning up after everyone (huband, baby and

pets), preparing meals, shopping etc. If I don't feel better about

these things, I will discuss with my doctor about going on an

antidepressant. " ....

because the good news is most of this has nothing to do with your

back....it just has to do with being a woman, wife and mother...at

least the feeling about it. I had just gotten this joke last week

and it seems appropriate to share:

What Do You Do All Day?

A man came home from work and found his three children outside,

still in their pajamas, playing in the mud, with empty food boxes

and wrappers strewn all around the front yard.

The door of his wife's car was open, as was the front door to the

house and there was no sign of the dog. Proceeding into the entry,

he found an even bigger mess. A lamp had been knocked over, and the

throw rug was wadded against one wall.

In the front room the TV was loudly blaring a cartoon channel, and

the family room was strewn with toys and various items of clothing.

In the kitchen, dishes filled the sink, breakfast food was spilled

on the counter, the fridge door was open wide, dog food was spilled

on the floor, a broken glass lay under the table, and a small pile

of sand was spread by the back door.

He quickly headed up the stairs, stepping over toys and more piles of

clothes,looking for his wife. He was worried she might be ill, or

that something serious had happened.

He was met with a small trickle of water as it made its way out the

bathroom door. As he peered inside he found wet towels, scummy soap

and more toys strewn over the floor. Miles of toilet paper lay in a

heap and toothpaste had been smeared over the mirror and walls.

As he rushed to the bedroom, he found his wife still curled up in

the bed in her pajamas, reading a novel. She looked up at him,

smiled, and asked how his day went.

He looked at her bewildered and asked, " What happened here today? "

She again smiled and answered, " You know every day when you come

home from work and you ask me what in the world I do all

day? "

" Yes, " was his incredulous reply.

She answered, " Well, today I didn't do it. "

We should all take a page out of her book! Seriously though, the

alternative expanation for most of the disruption detailed here

could be that the wife had recently had revision surery and was

unable to do all the bending or leaning necessary to clean up after

everyone and was up in bed taking a much needed rest to recover her

strength and rest her newly arranged body!

You are right though, if you are still sruggling with the " blues " it

is a good idea to talk it over with your doctor.

It does sound like your strength is slowly returning and I bet you

will see a lot of improvement even in the next few months. For me it

seemed kind of like a cycle where you get a little stronger, so you

can do a little more, which makes you stronger still, and then

before you know it you are doing lots of stuff without much notice

of your back. I hope it happens for you.

Thanks again for sharing your experience!

Take Care, Cam

[Guest guest]

LorrieI am new to the group but not to surgeries and not to depression. And that was without a sick husband and then to be hit with the news about your father! Someone began a lexture on psychiatry with "if you don't lose your mind under some set of circumstances, then you didn't have a mind to lose!" I would say that this set of circumstances qualifies! I am so sorry to hear every single one of your difficulties--each is hard! I am amazed that you are on your feet at all. In terms of my experience, and I agree, it is good to share the downsides--my depressions were usually not part and parcel of the recovery process, other than in my fourth week (inevitably with all ten surgeries!) I felt like it would never end and that I was SUCH A BAD PERSON for not being fully productive! Then my denial and all that would kick in and I would be such a good patient/wife/daughter/employee, until after it was all over and then I had some whoppers of

depressions. I think being more self aware and honest as you are being, is much healthier. I do agree with Cam about talking to your doctor about antidepressants, however. The brain really does begin to work a bit differently after a while and then it is so much harder to cope. Also agree with Cam (maybe I should just let her answer stand), that the bit about being a housewife with toddler is really hard without the surgery. I had one of my surgeries on my first child's first birthday. It was really hard, I couldn't pick him up, I was in a cast then brace and he really wouldn't acknowledge me. (we have a video of that Christmas and it is so painful to watch cause he really ignores me. Good side is he is 23 now and all is well, he knows I am his mom!)Keep the faith.You're amazing person to be surviving and also to be so open and honest. I admire you.Ellen

How low will we go? Check out Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates.

[Guest guest]

Me again, I meant to reply to Kam because you hit a nail on the head for me, about being afraid how other people would respond if I complained. This goes both before and after surgeries and I end up even wondering if I am making too much of something. Then I switch to the other end of the pole and think that I have the worst problem. SO thank you for suggesting that we chronicle the downside of revisions. Groups like this are so helpful to combat the struggles we share.Ellen

How low will we go? Check out Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates.

[Guest guest]

Once again, I will stress that I think we should hear the bad things

as well as the good things so that those of us who are on the fence

can be better informed before making a decision.

>

> Me again, I meant to reply to Kam because you hit a nail on the head

for me, about being afraid how other people would respond if I

complained.

[Guest guest]

Hi...

I actually think that the reports of super good outcomes have the ability to be more destructive than reports of bad outcomes. In the past 5 years or so, with super fast recoveries, I’ve seen a lot of people become super depressed when their recoveries were much slower. I certainly don’t think anyone who had a great outcome should hide that fact, but I also believe that those who haven’t had such great recoveries should sugar coat it.

Regards,

On 8/28/06 6:12 PM, " SB " <bahadreama@...> wrote:

Once again, I will stress that I think we should hear the bad things

as well as the good things so that those of us who are on the fence

can be better informed before making a decision.

>

> Me again, I meant to reply to Kam because you hit a nail on the head

for me, about being afraid how other people would respond if I

complained.

[Guest guest]

Hi Cam –

I know ! I wonder at times whether my feelings of being tired and “blue”

are a result of the surgery or just home life in general!!! I loved that

little story “What did you do all day!” My sentiments exactly!

Life goes on…..

Lorrie

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of cammaltby

Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 4:27

PM

Subject: [ ] Re:

the downside of revision recovery (an informal poll)

Lorrie,

I am so sorry to hear about your father. That must feel like quite a

blow...just when you were starting to see the light at the end of

the tunnel. I do hope that it turns out that they are able to

manage the cancer and it has not spread.

Your account of the last 10 months is such an honest accounting of

the travails of this surgery. On top of your own health you have the

care of an active toddler and an ill husband...zowie! Did Bill have

minimally invasive surgery or the standard issue? I hope he does

well.

I didn't realize that you had finally gotten off the fentnyl patch.

It is good to see that, as you suspected, it was a big energy zapper

for you. I know you were not meaning to be funny....but I have to

say I did have to smile when you said..

" I do still feel " blue " at times. All the daily chores of a

household get me down when I don't have any help. It is the constant

responsibility of cleaning up after everyone (huband, baby and

pets), preparing meals, shopping etc. If I don't feel better about

these things, I will discuss with my doctor about going on an

antidepressant. " ....

because the good news is most of this has nothing to do with your

back....it just has to do with being a woman, wife and mother...at

least the feeling about it. I had just gotten this joke last week

and it seems appropriate to share:

What Do You Do All Day?

A man came home from work and found his three children outside,

still in their pajamas, playing in the mud, with empty food boxes

and wrappers strewn all around the front yard.

The door of his wife's car was open, as was the front door to the

house and there was no sign of the dog. Proceeding into the entry,

he found an even bigger mess. A lamp had been knocked over, and the

throw rug was wadded against one wall.

In the front room the TV was loudly blaring a cartoon channel, and

the family room was strewn with toys and various items of clothing.

In the kitchen, dishes filled the sink, breakfast food was spilled

on the counter, the fridge door was open wide, dog food was spilled

on the floor, a broken glass lay under the table, and a small pile

of sand was spread by the back door.

He quickly headed up the stairs, stepping over toys and more piles of

clothes,looking for his wife. He was worried she might be ill, or

that something serious had happened.

He was met with a small trickle of water as it made its way out the

bathroom door. As he peered inside he found wet towels, scummy soap

and more toys strewn over the floor. Miles of toilet paper lay in a

heap and toothpaste had been smeared over the mirror and walls.

As he rushed to the bedroom, he found his wife still curled up in

the bed in her pajamas, reading a novel. She looked up at him,

smiled, and asked how his day went.

He looked at her bewildered and asked, " What happened here today? "

She again smiled and answered, " You know every day when you come

home from work and you ask me what in the world I do all

day? "

" Yes, " was his incredulous reply.

She answered, " Well, today I didn't do it. "

We should all take a page out of her book! Seriously though, the

alternative expanation for most of the disruption detailed here

could be that the wife had recently had revision surery and was

unable to do all the bending or leaning necessary to clean up after

everyone and was up in bed taking a much needed rest to recover her

strength and rest her newly arranged body!

You are right though, if you are still sruggling with the " blues " it

is a good idea to talk it over with your doctor.

It does sound like your strength is slowly returning and I bet you

will see a lot of improvement even in the next few months. For me it

seemed kind of like a cycle where you get a little stronger, so you

can do a little more, which makes you stronger still, and then

before you know it you are doing lots of stuff without much notice

of your back. I hope it happens for you.

Thanks again for sharing your experience!

Take Care, Cam

[Guest guest]

,

I appreciate your post. From reading this forum (and others) for

awhile, it seems that there are alot of downsides other than

depression that no one is mentioning. For one thing, the pain of

the surgery and recovery (or does that go without saying?) I

haven't had a revision yet and would really like to know how those

have had it come out a year or two later. There must be limitations

that the surgery leaves, or are they better than what everyone had

before hand? It would seem that mobility becomes even more

limitted. To what extent? What can't people do that they

previously could? Are the need for pain killers and other meds

evntually eliminated or reduced?

Jane

> >> >

> >> > Me again, I meant to reply to Kam because you hit a nail on

the head

> > for me, about being afraid how other people would respond if I

> > complained.

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Ellen – Thanks for your

perspective on depression and thanks for telling me about you having your

surgery on your child’s birthday. Our children could very well learn to

be more empathic to others by knowing what their moms went through.

Sometimes I think I tend to be too hard on

myself and have guilt trips because I don’t do enough with my daughter.

I have to convince myself that it is wonderful that I can be a “stay at

home mom” right now because if I worked I would only see her a couple of

hours a day at most. She had a wonderful time just looking at all her books

this afternoon while I did some paperwork. I just tend to feel guilty when I

have her watch a video when I need to rest – but she loves it. She is

starting pre-school next week for one morning a week and I also have her in a

weekly dance class. I’m trying to go with the flow more than resist.

By the way – to Cam

and others – my 80 year old dad who had a cancerous pathology report come

back on his bladder just had a CAT scan. All is well – clear lungs and abdomen.

He is having more biopsies in the bladder next week, but the urologist said he

is confident that the tumor may have been just in one spot – if not he

can do some procedure to reconstruct the bladder. Whew!

On the other hand, my husband Bill that

had surgery 2 weeks ago for a ruptured disc in his lower back is still in the

same pain he had before the surgery. He sees that neurologist tomorrow. Maybe

it just needs further healing. I don’t know – he hasn’t been

the best about sitting still and resting for these 2 weeks. The surgeon said

no “bending, lifting or twisting” – but he was just in the

garage working on his Hot Rod – “men never listen.” I abided

by all my surgeon’s requests after my surgery!

Lorrie Snyder

Revision 11/8/05 – Dr. Boachie

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of jules arginteanu

Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 8:40

PM

Subject: [ ] Re:

the downside of revision recovery (an informal poll)

Lorrie

I am new to the group but not to surgeries and not to depression. And

that was without a sick husband and then to be hit with the news about your

father! Someone began a lexture on psychiatry with " if you don't lose your

mind under some set of circumstances, then you didn't have a mind to

lose! " I would say that this set of circumstances qualifies! I

am so sorry to hear every single one of your difficulties--each is hard! I

am amazed that you are on your feet at all.

In terms of my experience, and I agree, it is good to share the downsides--my

depressions were usually not part and parcel of the recovery process, other

than in my fourth week (inevitably with all ten surgeries!) I felt like it

would never end and that I was SUCH A BAD PERSON for not being fully

productive! Then my denial and all that would kick in and I would be such

a good patient/wife/daughter/employee, until after it was all over

and then I had some whoppers of depressions. I think being more self

aware and honest as you are being, is much healthier. I do agree with Cam about talking to your doctor about antidepressants,

however. The brain really does begin to work a bit differently after a

while and then it is so much harder to cope.

Also agree with Cam (maybe I should just let

her answer stand), that the bit about being a housewife with toddler is really

hard without the surgery.

I had one of my surgeries on my first child's first birthday. It was

really hard, I couldn't pick him up, I was in a cast then brace and he really

wouldn't acknowledge me. (we have a video of that Christmas and it is so

painful to watch cause he really ignores me. Good side is he is 23 now

and all is well, he knows I am his mom!)

Keep the faith.

You're amazing person to be surviving and also to be so open and honest.

I admire you.

Ellen

How low will we go? Check out Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone

call rates.

[Guest guest]

Lorrie,

I am glad to hear your Dad has passed that hurdle. That must have been

ahuge relief for you and your family. I will be hoping that the good

news continues.

I do wish Bill would take it easy! Since you should be able to speak

with the voice of experience, tell him that he can't expect the

outcome the doctor told him was possible if he isn't abiding by the

doctors discharge instructions. I agree....men....humpf! Laugh.Sigh.

Take Care, Cam

[Guest guest]

Dear Lorrie,

I'm so sorry about your Dad's cancer, but at least it hasn't spread, and looks operable. Better news than when you first posted, and I'm glad for your family, cancer is such a tough thing. You and your Dad are in my prayers!

You have had more on your plate than is fair, If you go by the adage bad things come in three's, you are done!

Kids surprise you, they adjust to what you can do, and I'm sure what you can do is enough for her. We put a lot of pressure on ourselves, and with the difficult surgery and recovery you had, I'm amazed you do all you do. Then to have a husband having surgery too, and a sick Father, you just amaze me. I'm always sure(in my head) that I could do more for my kids, be a better Mom. I think we are just wired that way, to feel we aren't enough. You are still healing and getting stronger, and it will get better. You amaze me, my Granddaughter is coming tomorrow, and she wears me out and she's only here for three day every two weeks. I'm not trying to heal, and she wears me out, she's seventeen months of pure energy, so you are doing way better than you think. She's lucky to have you, and you her, and don't compare yourself to other Mothers or feel you aren't doing enough. How you do things together for now just has to adapt to your energy level, and she will always be glad you were there for her during this toddler stage.

Whew is right, your family deserves some good news!

Colorado Springs

RE: [ ] Re: the downside of revision recovery (an informal poll)

Hi Ellen – Thanks for your perspective on depression and thanks for telling me about you having your surgery on your child’s birthday. Our children could very well learn to be more empathic to others by knowing what their moms went through.

Sometimes I think I tend to be too hard on myself and have guilt trips because I don’t do enough with my daughter. I have to convince myself that it is wonderful that I can be a “stay at home mom” right now because if I worked I would only see her a couple of hours a day at most. She had a wonderful time just looking at all her books this afternoon while I did some paperwork. I just tend to feel guilty when I have her watch a video when I need to rest – but she loves it. She is starting pre-school next week for one morning a week and I also have her in a weekly dance class. I’m trying to go with the flow more than resist.

By the way – to Cam and others – my 80 year old dad who had a cancerous pathology report come back on his bladder just had a CAT scan. All is well – clear lungs and abdomen. He is having more biopsies in the bladder next week, but the urologist said he is confident that the tumor may have been just in one spot – if not he can do some procedure to reconstruct the bladder. Whew!

On the other hand, my husband Bill that had surgery 2 weeks ago for a ruptured disc in his lower back is still in the same pain he had before the surgery. He sees that neurologist tomorrow. Maybe it just needs further healing. I don’t know – he hasn’t been the best about sitting still and resting for these 2 weeks. The surgeon said no “bending, lifting or twisting” – but he was just in the garage working on his Hot Rod – “men never listen.” I abided by all my surgeon’s requests after my surgery!

Lorrie Snyder

Revision 11/8/05 – Dr. Boachie

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of jules arginteanuSent: Monday, August 28, 2006 8:40 PM Subject: [ ] Re: the downside of revision recovery (an informal poll)

LorrieI am new to the group but not to surgeries and not to depression. And that was without a sick husband and then to be hit with the news about your father! Someone began a lexture on psychiatry with "if you don't lose your mind under some set of circumstances, then you didn't have a mind to lose!" I would say that this set of circumstances qualifies! I am so sorry to hear every single one of your difficulties--each is hard! I am amazed that you are on your feet at all. In terms of my experience, and I agree, it is good to share the downsides--my depressions were usually not part and parcel of the recovery process, other than in my fourth week (inevitably with all ten surgeries!) I felt like it would never end and that I was SUCH A BAD PERSON for not being fully productive! Then my denial and all that would kick in and I would be such a good patient/wife/daughter/employee, until after it was all over and then I had some whoppers of depressions. I think being more self aware and honest as you are being, is much healthier. I do agree with Cam about talking to your doctor about antidepressants, however. The brain really does begin to work a bit differently after a while and then it is so much harder to cope. Also agree with Cam (maybe I should just let her answer stand), that the bit about being a housewife with toddler is really hard without the surgery. I had one of my surgeries on my first child's first birthday. It was really hard, I couldn't pick him up, I was in a cast then brace and he really wouldn't acknowledge me. (we have a video of that Christmas and it is so painful to watch cause he really ignores me. Good side is he is 23 now and all is well, he knows I am his mom!)Keep the faith.You're amazing person to be surviving and also to be so open and honest. I admire you.Ellen

How low will we go? Check out Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates.

[Guest guest]

Hi Jane,

I've got to get to work in a mo, so I'll try to be brief, but I just wanted to say that as you'll have noticed I'm one of the ones with not such a brilliant long term outcome. It's a pretty fair bet that there is more surgery in my future, as I've developed stenosis since the revision surgery.

Even so, despite that, I am *so* much better off than I was prior to the surgery. Even with the pain I get as a consequence of the stenosis, it's a rare day that I take any painkillers during the day - only if I want to be out and about doing lots do I *need* them. I do take painkillers at night, because for whatever reason I find that I do suffer pain during the night, and more especially if I'm on a harder mattress than my own. But generally speaking, those are the only painkillers I use, and my doctors take the view that if I'd need to be on sleeping pills otherwise to get a good night's sleep, the painkillers are little enough. Generally speaking I take 50mg tramadol (same drug as in ultram) and 1-2 co-dydramol (500mg paracetamol, 10mg dihydrocodeine tartrate). Of course I'd prefer to take nothing, but it's little enough, especially compared to before surgery. Sometimes I forget to take them at all, but I pay for that the next day when I'm creaking around and popping painkillers from the moment I get up, grumbling about a bad day and wondering what I've done to deserve it so it's so much less taken overall that I'm as happy as I can be with it ;o)

Even accounting for the ongoing problems I have, and the new ones that I've developed, my life before and after revision is like night and day. For me, it was absolutely worth doing, and I'm so grateful to my surgeons for giving me back a life. It may not be quite the one I had before, or that I'd have hoped for, but I think it would be pretty unreasonable to hold that against them. They did a truly fantastic job! This far out, it's difficult for me to remember all the little things that improved, and made so much difference to my life, but there were an awful lot. Between them, they make so much difference to my life that even if I was as limited in my walking now as I was before surgery, I'd *still* be glad that I had it done. I'd reached a point where it was interfering with my life so totally, and affecting my body in such a multitude of ways that even I didn't realise how profound the impact of flatback was until it was fixed and I felt so much better.

titch-- The wages of sin are death, but by the time taxes are taken out, it's just sort of a tired feeling - a Poundstone

[Guest guest]

HI MARY PA,I GET LIKE THAT SOME DAYS,THEN SOME DAYS ARE BETTER THAN

OTHERS BUT I KNOW WHAT YOUR SAYING..I HAD TO CALL PRISCILLA THE OTHER

DAY CAUSE I WENT TO REACH FOR SOMETHING ON MY BUREAU AND I HEARD A

BIG POP AND IT CAME FROM THE BOTTOM OF MY BACK..WELL I WAS SO NERVOUS

THAT I HAD BROKE SOMETHING IN THERE I CALLED TO ASK HER IF THIS WAS

NORMAL TO HEAR THAT BECAUSE I NEVER HEARD ANYTHING LIKE THAT BEFORE

BUT SHE TOLD ME IT COULD BE AIR OR GAS IN THE BONES? WHO KNOWS? WELL

THE SAME DAY I WENT OUT TO LUNCH WITH THE GIRLS FROM WORK AND WE WERE

TALKING AND SITTING AND I FORGOT I WAS IN A BOOTH FOR 2 1/2 HOURS AND

WHEN I GOT UP I WAS HURTING.THAT WAS STUPID OF ME TO BE SITTING IN A

BOOTH ANYWAY CAUSE IT'S TOO LOW FOR ME.WELL NEEDLESS TO SAY I WAS

HURTING ALL THAT DAY AND THE NEXT,SO YESTERDAY I WAS STILL HURTING

AND CALLED THE DR.'S OFFICE AGAIN AND GOT HILARY AND SHE SAID I MOST

LIKELY HURT IT SITTING DOWN LOW AND IF IT'S NOT BETTER BY A COUPLE OF

DAYS TO CALL AND COME IN FOR AN X-RAY..WELL TODAY I WOKE UP AND I

FELT ALOT BETTER SO I'M HOPING EVERYTHING IS FINE AND IT WAS AIR..BUT

HAS ANYONE ELSE HAD THAT HAPPEN TO THEM SINCE SURGERY? ALL THAT KEPT

GOING THROUGH MY HEAD WAS SOMEONE I FORGET HER NAME HEARD A POP AND

SHE BROKE SOMETHING AND HAD TO GO IN AND HAVE IT FIXED..I THINK SHE

WAS BENDING OVER THE DRYER GETTING CLOTHES OUT. WELL THATS ALL THAT

KEPT GOING THROUGH MY HEAD.BUT I WAS NOT BENDING OR DOING ANYTHING I

WASN'T SUPPOSE TO BE DOING.BUT YOU NEVER KNOW YOU CAN MOVE THE WRONG

WAY AND HURT YOURSELF..I START BACK TO WORK ON TUESDAY AND I JUST

HOPE I CAN DO IT,IF NOT I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO. ARE YOU STILL IN

ALOT OF PAIN MARY? I STILL AM HAVING PAIN FROM SURGERY NOT BAD BAD

PAIN BUT IT'S THERE AND I HATE IT THAT I CAN'T STILL DO ALOT OF

THINGS BUT HOPEFULLY IT WILL GET A LITTLE BETTER.. MARY HANG IN THERE

THAT'S ALL WE CAN DO AND KEEP YOUR CHIN UP...VONNIE -

-- In , " heatherbenjaminnicholas "

<heatherbenjaminnicholas@...> wrote:

>

> ---

>

> I think I have come in and out of a sadness/depression state since

I

> was released from the hospital. I really do not like to go out in

the

> public too much, I do but don't like to do it. I feel sad inside

that

> I am not moving at a rate I want to be. I KNOW I am doing well, so

I

> hate to complain, but you asked. I am still not completly

comfortable

> in my new body, 7 months post op. I started back to the gym a few

> weeks ago and it felt so, so weird on the equipment. I had trouble

> reaching devices to change the position on the bike. I could not

bend

> down low enough to reach the cleaning clothes they have for you wo

> wipe down equipment after each use. It was such an effort to go and

> ride a darn bike for 30 minutes. I just want to be what I was

> preflatback but that will never happen...I sometimes dream about

> bending over and reaching something off of the floor with no

> restrictiveness. I am not in anyway implying that I am regretting

the

> revision surgery....never...i just feel sad, I was dealt this hand

of

> cards...boohoo for me....I think i;ll go have a pitty party for

> myself tonight.....,PA

>

> In , " advokam " <advokam@> wrote:

> >

> > For those of you who are officially 'revised', I have a quick

> > question.

> >

> >

> > Have you, at any point since your surgeries, experienced

depression

> > or notable set-backs in your recovery and if so, at what point

> (give

> > or take) did such occur?

> >

> >

> > Thinking back over the recoveries I've witnessed, it seems these

> > things are fairly common (Lorrie, P., , myself, to

name

> a

> > few) and I suspect there are others. Sometimes I sense this group

> > errs on the side of optimism and I don't like sugar-coated

(unless

> > it's my dessert) and would not want to mislead anyone into

thinking

> > that recovery is straight-forward and easily graphable.

> >

> > So, for the sake of considering multiple perspectives, will those

> of

> > us who have 'been there, done that' use this thread to express

the

> > most challenging parts of recovery? We can keep it all contained,

> but

> > I think it could be a useful archive for those in recovery-mode

to

> > feel a bit more 'normal'. I know I was sometimes afraid to

complain

> > because I was afraid I'd scare someone away from this life-

changing

> > commitment. HELLO!!! We should be scared! If we're not somewhat

> > frightened by the notion, we're not being realistic.

> >

> > Naturally, if you don't want to share, don't. If you don't want

to

> > read, skip this thread. But it might help someone more than

you'll

> > ever realize.

> >

> > kam

> >

>