Guest guest Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Hi Ann, You need to read 's message no 31601. This gives a brilliant explanation about the relationshion between T3/T4 using Chuck's bucket theory. Gillian > > I used to question why we are given T4 as a t'ment when we need T3, so I am surprised to read of someone on T3 only. I have read that T3 does not cross the blood brain barrier which is why we are usually given T4, which does cross it, and as it also (usually) converts to T3 we get what we need.... Apparently, so I've read, the brain needs T4. What is true? How can someone survive on T3 only? What about her brain....?? Would like someone to explain if possible, thanks > Anne > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Hi ,I was sure I had read about the T3 blood brain barrier so I checked it out. I think you may have misunderstood me, I didn't say T4 converts there, as you say it converts mostly in the liver. I understood that because some things do not cross that barrier we need to take our replacement in the form of T4 (which again I have read our brains need) which does cross the BBB (blood brain barrier) but there appear to be conflicting reports with regard to whether T3 crosses the barrier. I have only read before that it did not which is why I asked the question. Obviously, I had wondered why we don't just normally all take T3 as that is what we need but are prescribed T4 & then it has to convert.... When I read about the BBB that explained it for me, however, I'm back to wondering again if in fact T3 does cross the BBB...???Google scholar wants to tell me more about rats than humans.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 How do I go about reading a specific message such as the one you mentioned with regard to T3 & T4 and the BBB?Anne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Hi, a, most chemist do a pick up and delivery , thought this was only for the elderly, but I believe it is for everyone who finds it difficult to get to the chemist for prescriptions.ask the chemist near you if you can have the script picked up and filled. angel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Hi Anne This is message 31695....so you need to click on 'older' and scroll back down until you come to no 31601. Hope that makes sense..... the messages are all in number order and can be referred to as newer, newest, older or oldest. If you click on oldest it takes you back to the very first message when the forum first started in 2007, so if you want to read through them all thats where you start!!! Gillian > > How do I go about reading a specific message such as the one you mentioned with regard to T3 & T4 and the BBB? > Anne > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 The advantage of taking T4, if you can tolerate it, is that the body then continuously converts it to T3 and you get a steady stream as required. When you take T3 in tablet form you have to experiment to see how long it seems to last (as it varies from person to person) and work out the optimum dosage routine. Miriam Obviously, I had wondered why we don't just normally all take T3 as that is what we need but are prescribed T4 & then it has to convert.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 --- At 01:39 AM 1/28/2009, Anne Harding wrote: > >I used to question why we are given T4 as a t'ment when we need T3, so I am surprised to read of someone on T3 only. I have read that T3 does not cross the blood brain barrier which is why we are usually given T4, which does cross it, and as it also (usually) converts to T3 we get what we need.... Apparently, so I've read, the brain needs T4. What is true? How can someone survive on T3 only? What about her brain....?? " Only T4 is Transported into the Brain " : A Widespread False Belief http://www.drlowe.com/jcl/comentry/t3entersbrain.htm Dr. Blanchard’s False Beliefs About T3 Therapy http://www.thyroidscience.com/Criticism/lowe.2008/blanchard.false.beliefs.t3.htm New Studies Refute an Old Objection to T3 Therapy http://www.drlowe.com/jcl/comentry/notransthyretin.htm T3 may be a better agent than T4 in the critically ill hypothyroid patient: evaluation of transport across the blood-brain barrier in a primate model. http://www.mdconsult.com/das/journal/view/N/6612428?PAGE=1.html & source=MI & ANCHOR\ =abs " These data suggest: (a) T4, T3, and reverse T3 are all capable of bidirectional transfer across the blood brain barrier , ( T3 may be a better agent than T4 in treating patients with myxedema coma because T3 crosses more rapidly and more completely from serum to CSF. " --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 These are some really interesting links; thanks very much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 There is also now some discussion as to whether there really is a BBB as was always believed... Leah xx > > Hi , > I was sure I had read about the T3 blood brain barrier so I checked it out.  I think you may have misunderstood me, I didn't say T4 converts there, as you say it converts mostly in the liver. I understood that because some things do not cross that barrier we need to take our replacement in the form of T4 (which again I have read our brains need) which does cross the BBB (blood brain barrier) but there appear to be conflicting reports with regard to whether T3 crosses the barrier. I have only read before that it did not which is why I asked the question. Obviously, I had wondered why we don't just normally all take T3 as that is what we need but are prescribed T4 & then it has to convert.... When I read about the BBB that explained it for me, however, I'm back to wondering again if in fact T3 does cross the BBB...??? > Google scholar wants to tell me more about rats than humans.... > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Well that is what I meant! Sorry I should have said " if you can convert it " instead of " if you can tolerate it " . Thanks for clarifying things. Miriam > Oh Miriam - if only this was true. Unfortunately you can take synthetic T4 for years and years, and for one reason or another (and there are plenty) it can suddenly stop converting and you can get all the symptoms of hypothyroidism back. Some do fine, but many patients find this and need to start adding either synthetic T3 or natural thyroid extract. > Luv - Sheila > > The advantage of taking T4, if you can tolerate it, is that the body > then continuously converts it to T3 and you get a steady stream as > required. When you take T3 in tablet form you have to experiment to > see how long it seems to last (as it varies from person to person) and work out the optimum dosage routine. > Miriam > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Hi all, Just to add to the T3 alone topic. I have had to come off T3 only this week as I was getting the same side effects as I had with T4. ( Unable to walk upstairs, straighten up after bending over, forgetfulness... I found my self one time having gone to the cupboard instead of the fridge and pouring dry cat crunchies in to my tea instead of milk and forgetting my sons medicine .) It just took a bit longer for the symptoms to build up with T3 alone. When I contacted my endo he advised me to come off T3 straight away and I am now waiting until 29th April to see him again! My endo had implied that my symptoms were due to me being menopausal which as I am 45, was fine.So I decided to mention it when I had to see the gynecologist this week about fibroids and heavy bleeding, and also something that's being discussed on the list , bad headaches around periods. My gynecologist tugged the rug out from under my feet as she was quite snappy about there being any possible link between low thyroid and female sex hormones and said there was no link what so ever. She said I definitely wasn't menopausal and I could tell my endo that form her! She then booked me in on the 23rd March to have abolation on my womb, to remove the fibroids and stop the heavy bleeding. She said if I was a decade younger she would prescribe hormone treatment, but not at my age. I was expecting to be offered hormone treatment..or tests.. so I am afraid I was too shocked to say anything sensible! Not even sure its too good a idea to have that sort of treatment when my low thyroid is not even being treated. Just another quick note about T3 when I had to go back to my GP for more T3 tablets, he wasn't to happy about prescribing them as they cost the NHS £20 for 28 tablets. He said he would as I wasn't on any other medication at the time! Part of me is laughing at all this. A bigger part is a bit frightened and confused. Since being diagnosed with low thyroid last year things just seem to be spiraling. sadly from reading the list I know how many others are sharing this sort of experience with the NHS. x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 ALI, ALI, ALI....please delete most of previous messages already read. We moderators have to do this for those of you who forget, and it makes extra work for us. Smack on bum for you today. Luv - Sheila ___________________________________________ Thank you for those links, I shall save those and read them at a later date. Love Ali xx > > > " Only T4 is Transported into the Brain " : A Widespread False Belief > > http://www.drlowe.com/jcl/comentry/t3entersbrain.htm > New Studies Refute an Old Objection to T3 Therapy > > http://www.drlowe.com/jcl/comentry/notransthyretin.htm > http://www.mdconsult.com/das/journal/view/N/6612428? PAGE=1.html & source=MI & ANCHOR=abs > > " These data suggest: (a) T4, T3, and reverse T3 are all capable of bidirectional transfer across the blood brain barrier , ( T3 may be a better agent than T4 in treating patients with myxedema coma because T3 crosses more rapidly and more completely from serum to CSF. " > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 Hi Chuck, I have to apologize to all as I am so brian fogged I typed the wrong amount it was an error on my part about the price of T3 its £100 for 28 tablets. So it is very costly and I think that's why my GP was uncomfortable prescribing it. I had the same reactions to T4 only they came on quicker. I have found coming off T3 quite horrendous though and have just been advised by a GP that I am experiencing withdrawal symptoms and to go back on T3 and take a course of diazepam.... x > Those are symptoms of under dosing, not side effects. That suggest you > might do well on T4, if you just get enough.... perhaps your physicians would be willing to try it, since > the T4 is cheaper. > > Chuck > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 Hi thank you for the post. Sorry to take a few days to respond, but I am making so many mistakes over the past few days. I posted the cost of the T3 wrong .... it is £100 for 28 tablets.. so my Gp wasnt a Scrooge, but think it is why more T3 isnt offered by its self. Apologies for incorrect information. It is a bit of a shock to find the NHS so chaotic about thyroid. I am looking at adrenal info on the site and feel it is the next step to take. x > > Hi , > This is awful. If you could get your thyroid treated properly > then the periods would most probably sort themselves out- > As for worrying about his budget to try to make you feel guilty, that > is dreadful too- he should see all the pills mine prescribes- he's > probably have a fit- he isn't called Dr. Scrooge by any chance? > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > TPA is not medically qualified. Consult with a qualified medical > practitioner before changing medication. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 Is that for 28 tablets or for 28 days tablets - and how many tablets per day? My last order for T3 cost me about 50 pence per 25 mg tablet. The NHS should be able to get it for considerably cheaper than that, buying in bulk and not sending off to the States! Miriam > I know for a fact that it does NOT cost the NHS £100 for 28 days tablets of liothyronine (T3). I have just written to the Prescriptions Pricing Division of the NHS asking them to give me the true cost to the NHS of T3 and will let you know as soon as they respond. > Luv - Sheila > I have to apologize to all as I am so brian fogged I typed the wrong amount it was an error on my part about the price of T3 its £100 for 28 tablets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 Hi All, the basic cost of T3 tablets to the NHS as written in the British National Formulary for Sept 2008 is £9.15 for 28 tablets of 20mcg. Even though we are now in Feb 2009 I dont suppose they will cost more than £10 for 28. I hope this helps. Take care, Jo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Hi guys, I Posted origanllly about enodo prescribing T3 only. Finally got script for the T3 and will start taking T3 only tomorrow. Wanted to put it off as went away for fab weeend with hubby and didn't want to spoil things with new drugs. Did have problems getting T3 intially from pharmasist, they had to order,it. (I read that T3 costs approx £9.50 per 28 tablets). I must say that having read everyones different responses about T3, I amost bottled out of the whole thing as v convernecd about the blood brain barrier thing. I have noticed over the years that my brain has slowed down, but then again I am 45 and partied a lot (xxxx)when I was younger. Will let you know how I get on with the T3 only. Just one question though, wWhat blood test results can I expect with T3 only, as apposed to T4 only. My GP is to monitor my blood test results but I think he willl be out of his depth with T3. I guess there will be a cross over when stopping the T4 and starting the T3. Cheers. a PS Major snow fall here. May need to call on Rudoph and his raindeers so I can get to work tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 It's also because in the UK after the frist 10 years, the patent expires and it can be made by any manufacturer... Therefore most of us are on " generic " thyroxine, which is made very cheaply, and cost the NHS a couple of pounds per month... In the US people appear to me to be using branded medications still... Leah xx > > > > ... Isn't it strange that in the USA the > > cost of thyroxine is more than Armour, and in the UK it is the other way > > round. > > Perhaps it is because Forest uses Midwestern (US) pork glands, while the > synthetics can be made locally. For you, Armour is imported. > > Chuck > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 > Finally got script for the T3 and will start taking T3 only tomorrow. Wanted to put it off as went away for fab weeend with hubby and didn't want to spoil things with new drugs. .......... That makes it sound like you expect to feel worse rather than better! :-) > I almost bottled out of the whole thing as v concerned about the blood brain barrier thing. .......... The conclusion of that debate was that it is a myth to say T3 doesn't cross the blood brain barrier, so no need to worry. > I have noticed over the years that my brain has slowed down, but then again I am 45 and partied a lot (xxxx)when I was younger. ........ You are still in your prime so don't be fobbed off by telling people it is your age. > Will let you know how I get on with the T3 only. ....... Yes, keep us posted. I am on 2 (25 mcg) tablets at the moment and haven't noticed anything yet. Best wishes, Miriam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Sorry, it has just occurred to me that maybe you are changing over drugs rather than starting some new. In which case the transition might be a bit bumpy. I hope it all goes well. Miriam > > Finally got script for the T3 and will start taking T3 only > tomorrow. Wanted to put it off as went away for fab weeend with hubby > and didn't want to spoil things with new drugs. .......... > > That makes it sound like you expect to feel worse rather than better! > :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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