Jump to content
RemedySpot.com

Re: positive ANA and AIH

Rate this topic


Guest guest

Recommended Posts

Guest guest

I can answer your last question - I have positive ANA, but my doctor did not

diagnose me as AIH until after the results of the liver biopsy. He said the

positive ANA could be just a " red herring. " I guess " false positive ANA " is

more common in older people, but he didn't think I had AIH until after the

biopsy - even with the positive ANA, he thought it was more likely fatty

liver until he saw the inflammation and scarring from the biopsy.

Libby

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Susie,

I'm going to the doctor on Friday and will ask him exactly how high the ANA

was and post it here. My recollection is that it wasn't real high, but it

was outside the normal range. Also, to answer your other questions, my

biopsy indicated level one to one and a half of inflammation and level one

of scarring, so that basically indicated some kind of hepatitis, and I

tested negative for every other kind. Also, the condition has responded to

prednisone and my AST and ALT are both under 100 at this point (still not

normal, but better!) I'm 38 years old and found out about this when I

failed a life insurance blood test. Diagnosed in late May of this year.

Hope this helps.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Thanks for the info. Hopefully I will find out in August when I go to Mayo.

I also tested negative for all other hepatitis-abc etc... My biopsy said

cirrhosis. Hopefully I will know soon and what to do to keep damage at a

minimum.

Susie

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

I have had both positive and negative ANA, latest was negative. How can

that be?

>From: " Lib Dale " <libdale@...>

>Reply- onelist

> onelist

>Subject: Re: [ ] positive ANA and AIH

>Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 17:04:06 PDT

>MIME-Version: 1.0

>From errors-165537-3280-shireen42 Wed Jul 14 17:04:26 1999

>Received: from [209.207.164.237] by hotmail.com (1.5) with SMTP id

>MHotMailB956708600DDD82197A8D1CFA4ED0EC00; Wed Jul 14 17:04:26 1999

>Received: (qmail 7531 invoked by alias); 15 Jul 1999 00:04:06 -0000

>Received: (qmail 7524 invoked from network); 15 Jul 1999 00:04:06 -0000

>Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.32.181.61) by

>pop.onelist.com with SMTP; 15 Jul 1999 00:04:06 -0000

>Received: (qmail 51282 invoked by uid 0); 15 Jul 1999 00:04:06 -0000

>Message-ID: <19990715000406.51281.qmail@...>

>Received: from 12.72.16.58 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 14 Jul 1999

>17:04:06 PDT

>X-Originating-IP: [12.72.16.58]

>Mailing-List: list onelist; contact

> -owneronelist

>Delivered-mailing list onelist

>Precedence: bulk

>List-Unsubscribe: <mailto: -unsubscribeONElist>

>

>From: " Lib Dale " <libdale@...>

>

>Susie,

>

>I'm going to the doctor on Friday and will ask him exactly how high the ANA

>was and post it here. My recollection is that it wasn't real high, but it

>was outside the normal range. Also, to answer your other questions, my

>biopsy indicated level one to one and a half of inflammation and level one

>of scarring, so that basically indicated some kind of hepatitis, and I

>tested negative for every other kind. Also, the condition has responded to

>prednisone and my AST and ALT are both under 100 at this point (still not

>normal, but better!) I'm 38 years old and found out about this when I

>failed a life insurance blood test. Diagnosed in late May of this year.

>Hope this helps.

>

>

>---------------------------

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

I have had both positive and negative ANA, latest was negative. How can

that be?

>From: " Lib Dale " <libdale@...>

>Reply- onelist

> onelist

>Subject: Re: [ ] positive ANA and AIH

>Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 17:04:06 PDT

>MIME-Version: 1.0

>From errors-165537-3280-shireen42 Wed Jul 14 17:04:26 1999

>Received: from [209.207.164.237] by hotmail.com (1.5) with SMTP id

>MHotMailB956708600DDD82197A8D1CFA4ED0EC00; Wed Jul 14 17:04:26 1999

>Received: (qmail 7531 invoked by alias); 15 Jul 1999 00:04:06 -0000

>Received: (qmail 7524 invoked from network); 15 Jul 1999 00:04:06 -0000

>Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.32.181.61) by

>pop.onelist.com with SMTP; 15 Jul 1999 00:04:06 -0000

>Received: (qmail 51282 invoked by uid 0); 15 Jul 1999 00:04:06 -0000

>Message-ID: <19990715000406.51281.qmail@...>

>Received: from 12.72.16.58 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 14 Jul 1999

>17:04:06 PDT

>X-Originating-IP: [12.72.16.58]

>Mailing-List: list onelist; contact

> -owneronelist

>Delivered-mailing list onelist

>Precedence: bulk

>List-Unsubscribe: <mailto: -unsubscribeONElist>

>

>From: " Lib Dale " <libdale@...>

>

>Susie,

>

>I'm going to the doctor on Friday and will ask him exactly how high the ANA

>was and post it here. My recollection is that it wasn't real high, but it

>was outside the normal range. Also, to answer your other questions, my

>biopsy indicated level one to one and a half of inflammation and level one

>of scarring, so that basically indicated some kind of hepatitis, and I

>tested negative for every other kind. Also, the condition has responded to

>prednisone and my AST and ALT are both under 100 at this point (still not

>normal, but better!) I'm 38 years old and found out about this when I

>failed a life insurance blood test. Diagnosed in late May of this year.

>Hope this helps.

>

>

>---------------------------

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Geri

I hope to make the trip to Mayo as enjoyable as I can. My friend was only

able to go in June and August was the next best choice for me-my kids will be

with their Dad on vacation and then to National explorer camp and band camp.

I have reservations made etc. and rented a car-too risky for me alone in my

car. I dread driving anywhere near Chicago-but I have no choice!

I haven't been feeling as well lately, I have been having a lot of nausea and

some discomfort on my right side. As you know I also take Zoloft for

depression and have been having a lot of trouble taking it-I'm like hyper

alert now! I've always had trouble sleeping-but now it is awful and I'm so

tired. The other thing I've noticed is the redness in my face and all the

spider veins-it looks horrible-but covers with make-up.

I have actually cut my Zoloft way down because I can't sleep at all. I see

my doctor this Friday-hopefully he will make an adjustment. My stomach just

gets so queezy after I take it-even with food, milk etc.

I missed my appointment in June with my GI doctor and didn't even get my

blood work done! I have no idea where I'm at now. I just didn't want to

hear we didn't get much accomplished again! I guess a little denial on my

part. But the endocrinologist said I was not diabetic and he didn't want me

on cholesterol meds because liver enzymes were too high. No prednisone

because of my history of depression,what a mess! So I'm on no meds but

Zoloft. I just couldn't go. I've debated over and over on whether to go to

Mayo. I just CANT TAKE another bad doctors appointment. I will see Dr.

Czaja. I hope he is caring or compassionate and will listen to my whole,

long, sorted story/past/present etc...... AHHH. It is so hard for me to

spend money on me. My kids are in a Lutheran school and re-enrollment is

coming up and of course my ex-husband wants them to go-but doesn't want to

foot the bill. Let Mom apply for financial assistance and bear her soul to

the school and then I pay what is left. That is what I'm dealing with now.

I decided to put them in public school unless he paid-so we've been

battling-but I'm so tired and can't work now. Sorry for the rambling. But I

think he is going to pay-chalk one up for MOM.I

envy all of you who have supportive husbands/wives. It is SO hard being a

single Mom. But I love my kids and they love me-so I guess I'm going to Mayo!

Susie

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Susie,

I saw my Las Vegas Hepatologist today and he told me that AIH patients

generally fall into three categories. One of them is where the patient

responds exceptionally well to meds and the disease simply stops

progressing. In other words, it's the same thing as being healed.

However, there is always a possibility that the process will start up again

and then, because of the already damaged liver, a relapse can be much more

severe. Right now, I can be viewed as " cured " but will continue to take

maintenance drugs to hopefully stay this way. I don't remember the other

two categories well enough to repeat what he said, but I believe that one

of them would be people who are not responsive to treatment and who

steadily or even rapidly go downhill. I think that in my case, you could

say that I no longer have CAH because if the disease has halted, it's

neither chronic nor active and I test negative for Hepatitis in any form.

All that's left are the labs that show liver damage.

Despite all the above, I'm going to have an endoscopy to be sure that no

varices have formed and he continues to want to do labs and see me monthly.

He's being cautious and I appreciate that very much!

When you are at Mayo, be sure to ask about a bone density test, though I

doubt you'll have to remind them. I start taking Fosomax tomorrow because

of the bone density loss and early osteoporosis due to Prednisone. He told

me, incidentally, that I should drink TWO full glasses of water instead of

the recommended one glass, each time I take the stuff. Also, I should take

it only when I'm up and around (I'll do it when I start my daily housework)

because it can cause ulcers.

How are you feeling? I'm hoping you're doing better because I see that

you're posting more often. Good for you! I think about you often and you

know that I'm always wishing the best for you. I'm so glad that you're

going to Mayo and will finally get the kind of attention and care that you

deserve. Going to try to make it into a " fun " trip, since you're going to

be there anyhow? Is your friend going with you? Did you find a place to

stay?

Wishing you well,

Geri

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Mine did the same thing..at this point its slightly

pos again.. I havent been able to get a straight

answer from any of the docs Ive seen or see now..I

just can't worry about that anymore..

Jody

===

ISO B-family

DOB 5-23-61

b-name: Compton

*VOTE TO RE-ESTABLISH ADOPTEES RIGHTS TO KNOW THEIR

FAMILIES**

---susan johnson <shireen42@...> wrote:

>

> From: " susan johnson " <shireen42@...>

>

> I have had both positive and negative ANA, latest

was negative. How can

> that be?

>

>

>

>

> >From: " Lib Dale " <libdale@...>

> >Reply- onelist

> > onelist

> >Subject: Re: [ ] positive ANA and AIH

> >Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 17:04:06 PDT

> >MIME-Version: 1.0

> >From errors-165537-3280-shireen42 Wed Jul 14

17:04:26 1999

> >Received: from [209.207.164.237] by hotmail.com

(1.5) with SMTP id

> >MHotMailB956708600DDD82197A8D1CFA4ED0EC00; Wed Jul

14 17:04:26 1999

> >Received: (qmail 7531 invoked by alias); 15 Jul

1999 00:04:06 -0000

> >Received: (qmail 7524 invoked from network); 15

Jul 1999 00:04:06 -0000

> >Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com)

(216.32.181.61) by

> >pop.onelist.com with SMTP; 15 Jul 1999 00:04:06

-0000

> >Received: (qmail 51282 invoked by uid 0); 15 Jul

1999 00:04:06 -0000

> >Message-ID: <19990715000406.51281.qmail@...>

> >Received: from 12.72.16.58 by www.hotmail.com with

HTTP; Wed, 14 Jul 1999

> >17:04:06 PDT

> >X-Originating-IP: [12.72.16.58]

> >Mailing-List: list onelist;

contact

> > -owneronelist

> >Delivered-mailing list

onelist

> >Precedence: bulk

> >List-Unsubscribe:

<mailto: -unsubscribeONElist>

> >

> >From: " Lib Dale " <libdale@...>

> >

> >Susie,

> >

> >I'm going to the doctor on Friday and will ask him

exactly how high the ANA

> >was and post it here. My recollection is that it

wasn't real high, but it

> >was outside the normal range. Also, to answer

your other questions, my

> >biopsy indicated level one to one and a half of

inflammation and level one

> >of scarring, so that basically indicated some kind

of hepatitis, and I

> >tested negative for every other kind. Also, the

condition has responded to

> >prednisone and my AST and ALT are both under 100

at this point (still not

> >normal, but better!) I'm 38 years old and found

out about this when I

> >failed a life insurance blood test. Diagnosed in

late May of this year.

> >Hope this helps.

> >

> >

> >---------------------------

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Mine did the same thing..at this point its slightly

pos again.. I havent been able to get a straight

answer from any of the docs Ive seen or see now..I

just can't worry about that anymore..

Jody

===

ISO B-family

DOB 5-23-61

b-name: Compton

*VOTE TO RE-ESTABLISH ADOPTEES RIGHTS TO KNOW THEIR

FAMILIES**

---susan johnson <shireen42@...> wrote:

>

> From: " susan johnson " <shireen42@...>

>

> I have had both positive and negative ANA, latest

was negative. How can

> that be?

>

>

>

>

> >From: " Lib Dale " <libdale@...>

> >Reply- onelist

> > onelist

> >Subject: Re: [ ] positive ANA and AIH

> >Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 17:04:06 PDT

> >MIME-Version: 1.0

> >From errors-165537-3280-shireen42 Wed Jul 14

17:04:26 1999

> >Received: from [209.207.164.237] by hotmail.com

(1.5) with SMTP id

> >MHotMailB956708600DDD82197A8D1CFA4ED0EC00; Wed Jul

14 17:04:26 1999

> >Received: (qmail 7531 invoked by alias); 15 Jul

1999 00:04:06 -0000

> >Received: (qmail 7524 invoked from network); 15

Jul 1999 00:04:06 -0000

> >Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com)

(216.32.181.61) by

> >pop.onelist.com with SMTP; 15 Jul 1999 00:04:06

-0000

> >Received: (qmail 51282 invoked by uid 0); 15 Jul

1999 00:04:06 -0000

> >Message-ID: <19990715000406.51281.qmail@...>

> >Received: from 12.72.16.58 by www.hotmail.com with

HTTP; Wed, 14 Jul 1999

> >17:04:06 PDT

> >X-Originating-IP: [12.72.16.58]

> >Mailing-List: list onelist;

contact

> > -owneronelist

> >Delivered-mailing list

onelist

> >Precedence: bulk

> >List-Unsubscribe:

<mailto: -unsubscribeONElist>

> >

> >From: " Lib Dale " <libdale@...>

> >

> >Susie,

> >

> >I'm going to the doctor on Friday and will ask him

exactly how high the ANA

> >was and post it here. My recollection is that it

wasn't real high, but it

> >was outside the normal range. Also, to answer

your other questions, my

> >biopsy indicated level one to one and a half of

inflammation and level one

> >of scarring, so that basically indicated some kind

of hepatitis, and I

> >tested negative for every other kind. Also, the

condition has responded to

> >prednisone and my AST and ALT are both under 100

at this point (still not

> >normal, but better!) I'm 38 years old and found

out about this when I

> >failed a life insurance blood test. Diagnosed in

late May of this year.

> >Hope this helps.

> >

> >

> >---------------------------

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

>I just CANT TAKE another bad doctors appointment. I will see Dr.

> Czaja. I hope he is caring or compassionate and will listen to my whole,

> long, sorted story/past/present etc...... AHHH

Susie,

You will like Dr. Czaja. My first appointment with him lasted an hour. He

was very thorough. There were a couple of times that I wasn't sure I had

made myself clear, but when I read his notes to the other depts. that he

referred me to, I was amazed at how much he picked up with only the briefest

of mentions from me. I was even more amazed when I met with him at the end

of my stay. Every one of my problems had been addressed, and he had a plan

for every one of them. First time ever!!

Don

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

,

You are not alone. Three years ago, my ANA was 1:680. Today it is negative.

I know many Lupus patients who have ANA that bounce between positive and

negative.

Don

>

> I have had both positive and negative ANA, latest was negative. How can

> that be?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Don,

I've been meaning to ask you about this for awhile but I'm so bogged down

in the hundreds of postings that I spend most of my time floundering and

hoping to catch up.

My ANA is always <1:80. That's what it was when I was first diagnosed with

AIH and that's what it was a few weeks ago when I was tested for Lupus. I

can't see that I've been tested for that very many times over the past year

and a half so I wonder how pertinent it is to anything beyond a guideline,

but I guess they like to have those numbers.

Anyhow, if they took the first <1:80 ANA as indication that I have an

autoimmune disease, why did the same number seem to mean that I'm negative

for Lupus (different doctor) ? The lab report said clearly, negative for

Lupus. Of course, they didn't just check ANA, so maybe they were making

the comment about some other factor.

Also, is there any significance that you know of in whether it's <1:80 or

<1:60 or anything else? In other words, is the significance only in

whether it's positive, or do the numbers mean something?

This confuses me totally.

Thanks for any enlightenment you can offer.

Take care,

Geri

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Dear Geri:

I don't know if this will help, but my doctor (Dr. S.) told me that when my

ANA was 1:80 that it did not necessarily mean positive for AIH. He said that

the difference between 1:40 (which mine usually is) and 1:80 is very little.

I think it's confusing too since the lab indicates 1:40 as negative and 1:80

as positive. Also, when my prednisone dosage was increased, it went back

down to 1:40. I'll ask Dr. Carithers to be specific about it when I see him

next Friday.

Kathy (AIH)

Seattle area

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Geri, I do not know about lupus numbers, but when I was diagnosed with AIH

my ANA was 1:1,350 and at my clinic a positive ANA is greater than 1:40. My

cousin said she was diagnosed with Lupus, but then she said when they tested

her again that it was negative. I guess her Dr. told her that you test

positive for Lupus only when you are in the " flare-up " stage. And when you

are not in the " flare-up " stage you won't test postitive. She said he told

her that is why Lupus is so hard to diagnose. Hope this helps. I am just

relaying what I heard her say.

TTFN Lori C. Liver tx because of AIH

Re: [ ] positive ANA and AIH

>From: Geri Spang <spangs@...>

>

>Don,

>I've been meaning to ask you about this for awhile but I'm so bogged down

>in the hundreds of postings that I spend most of my time floundering and

>hoping to catch up.

>

>My ANA is always <1:80. That's what it was when I was first diagnosed with

>AIH and that's what it was a few weeks ago when I was tested for Lupus. I

>can't see that I've been tested for that very many times over the past year

>and a half so I wonder how pertinent it is to anything beyond a guideline,

>but I guess they like to have those numbers.

>

>Anyhow, if they took the first <1:80 ANA as indication that I have an

>autoimmune disease, why did the same number seem to mean that I'm negative

>for Lupus (different doctor) ? The lab report said clearly, negative for

>Lupus. Of course, they didn't just check ANA, so maybe they were making

>the comment about some other factor.

>

>Also, is there any significance that you know of in whether it's <1:80 or

><1:60 or anything else? In other words, is the significance only in

>whether it's positive, or do the numbers mean something?

>

>This confuses me totally.

>

>Thanks for any enlightenment you can offer.

>

>Take care,

>Geri

>

>

>---------------------------

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

> Anyhow, if they took the first <1:80 ANA as indication that I have an

> autoimmune disease, why did the same number seem to mean that I'm

>negative for Lupus (different doctor) ?

> Also, is there any significance that you know of in whether it's <1:80 or

> <1:60 or anything else? In other words, is the significance only in

> whether it's positive, or do the numbers mean something?

Hi Geri,

Dr. Wallace, who wrote the leading textbook on SLE (lupus), has a lot

to say about ANA in his book, The Lupus Book. He cites that nearly 10

million Americans have a positive ANA, yet fewer than 1 million have SLE.

Other autoimmune diseases, aging, certain viral infections, and certain

drugs, can all cause positive ANA's. But, fewer than 3% of SLE patients are

ANA-negative. So...a negative ANA makes the likelihood of having SLE very

small. But, a positive ANA is not very conclusive. The pattern is also

looked at. Homogeneous patterns are almost always SLE, while speckled could

be SLE or some other autoimmune process.

I've many doctors suggest that high titers (some consider 1:320 as high,

others 1:1280...so who knows!) are more likely to be real autoimmune

diseases. Many of the SLE people that I chat with have titers in excess of

1:1280.

Now, for SLE, the academy of rheumatologists list 11 criteria for SLE. They

recommend that patients need to meet 4 of the 11 to be dx'd with SLE. So, my

guess is some of the other autoantibody tests that are usually triggered

when the ANA tests positive were negative. But, positive ANA is only 1 of

the 11 criteria, and you need only meet 4 of the 11.

Does any of this help??

Don

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Kathy,

I'm still confused about the significance of ANA. It just means that

autoimmunity exists, doesn't it? But it isn't specific to any particular

form of autoimmunity? Either you have it or you don't, so I can understand

that there might not be much (if any) difference between 1:40 and 1:80, but

that's something I still don't really get. But, it does make sense that

the counts would go down in proportion to the amount of Prednisone you

take. Mine, however, remains at a steady 1:80 and has been there for a

year and a half. So, I have autoimmunity. No big surprise at this point.

Geri

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Don,

Am I looking at things incorrectly, or is 1:80 considered " high " in ANA

terms compared to 1:320 or 1:1280? I match several of the criteria for

Lupus. More than four, as I recall, but if I have it, it's not a serious

problem. It doesn't always cause major problems, I understand, and

sometimes it can take years before it really develops into a medical

crisis. Is this also what you are observing?

Thanks for the help and information!

Geri

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Lori,

It would seem to me that if my ANA is positive for autoimmune disease at

1:80, it should have reduced since I started taking Imuran and Prednisone.

But, it's remained the same, apparently, all along. This concerns me only

because it seems my immune system is still kicking up despite the meds. I

wonder if my perception is cockeyed?

Thanks for the help.

Geri

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

> Am I looking at things incorrectly, or is 1:80 considered " high " in ANA

> terms compared to 1:320 or 1:1280?

Geri,

The larger the number, the higher the titer. In other words, the higher the

number, the greater the amount of antibodies being measured.

For several years, it was thought that I met the criteria for SLE. Now,

further tests are challenging that. For example, the rash across my cheeks

and nose was not a Lupus rash when biopsied. Several other tests are also

disputing previous tests. So....

Don

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

ANA is a very unreliable measure of disease activity. Some people see the

ANA titers increase during times of increased disease activity, others do

not. Still others see their titers increase and decrease for no apparent

reason. That is why most many docs use the ANA test only as a starting

point. If positive, do further autoantibody testing, if negative, start

thinking of other posibilities, though there is still a small chance of

autoimmune disease.

Don

Re: [ ] positive ANA and AIH

> From: Geri Spang <spangs@...>

>

> Lori,

> It would seem to me that if my ANA is positive for autoimmune disease at

> 1:80, it should have reduced since I started taking Imuran and Prednisone.

> But, it's remained the same, apparently, all along. This concerns me only

> because it seems my immune system is still kicking up despite the meds. I

> wonder if my perception is cockeyed?

> Thanks for the help.

> Geri

>

>

> ---------------------------

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Speaking of brain fog, is that usual with AIH? Someone mentioned amonia in

the blood or something, I have to ask about that too. Lynn

Roselle50@... wrote:

> From: Roselle50@...

>

> Brain fog setting in---can someone tell me what ANA is again?

>

> Thanks

>

> Sue AIH

> Wisconsin

>

> ---------------------------

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Don,

That clarifies why my doctor doesn't bother with ANA tests. Except for the

first one and the ones they did during pre-transplant evaluation, only

doctors I've seen for other reasons have ordered the test. The results are

consistent, but they don't say anything they didn't already know.

I suppose it was helpful in reaching the original AIH diagnosis, combined

with other things.

Take care,

Geri

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...