Re: question about T4-dogs

[Guest guest]

Well, first, I have also read somewhere that bitches may become hypo

after spaying. All our girls are spayed after their reproductive

lives are over, and so far none of them has become hypo-- though

their metabolisms do slow down and they tend more to fat. I would

suggest that due to this, owners might be more inclined to check

thyroid for the first time, find the problem, then they and their

vets might attribute it to spaying. The truth is, those bitches

probably were hypo long before that-- just unfortunately previously

undiagnosed. There are very well-respected canine endocrinologists.

Their findings are that there is no difference between dog ot bitch,

intact or not, all are at equal risk when it comes to hypothyroidism.

Gail

> >

> > > ... I have dogs with AIT, and it would take about a month for

it to

> leave

> > > their bodies too, according to the literature. ...

> >

> > Interesting. How common is this in dogs? Are they a good model

for humans?

> >

> > Chuck

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

It's very common in dogs--especially those of medium to large size.

The AKC Gazette did a poll of American breed clubs a dozen years ago

or so, and found that hypothyroidism was almost always in the top 4,

and very often the number one genetic concern. As with everything

else, the better the testing, the more breeders and owners do that

testing, the more it is found. OFA protocol is first check at about

14 months of age (not within a month of innocs, not when dogs are

taking other drugs, especially steroids, bitches between seasons), a

second check a year later, then if nothing found, every second year

until the dog is 6 to 8 years old. The profile my dogs get, is

T3,T4,FreeT4 by equilibrium

dialysis,CanineTSH,T3AA's,T4AA's,CainineTgAA. At a young age we look

particularly for TgAA, and if it is elevated, I would not wait for

anything else to show up in the profile, would start the dog on

supplement immediately. Before most people would see clinical signs,

that dog will have been feeling miserable for a long time. Plus there

are more than 50 signs, some of them contradictory. Plus most vets

are only looking for what they consider the " classic " signs of heat-

seeking, lethargy, and obesity. There are certainly parallels with

human hypoT, including allergies (with dogs it's usually the skin),

high colesterol, mood disorders, and the tendancy to progress to

other autoimmune problems. Most of the time it's autoimmune, and T4

supplement takes care of that-- given twice daily for life, and in

much higher doses than humans get. Very occasionally the problem

might involve the pituitary/hypothalmus axis, and sometimes they may

need T3 support as well. That is rare though. Research also shows

that if dogs are diagnosed later in life, they may be

considered " ideopathically low thyroid " , but the reality is that the

causitive agent was probably autoimmune (Hashimoto's in humans). What

happens is that the autoimmune process starts usually around puberty,

and as the months and years go by, the thyroid progressively self-

destructs, but generally sometime before complete destruction, the

autoantibodies just stop, and the dog is left with very little

functioning thyroid. Sorry to be so lengthy, but yes I would say

there are parallels, and when people come to pick up their puppies,

whether both parents are clear for thyroid or not, I want owners to

do the checks on their own dogs. I tend to go on at great length, and

yes, I do see their eyes glaze over.:-) I also have found that as I

start to explain about hypoT in dogs, many people tell me they

understand, as they also have it!

Gail

In hypothyroidism , Chuck Blatchley

<cblatchl@p...> wrote:

> Gail,

>

> You wrote:

>

> > ... I have dogs with AIT, and it would take about a month for it

to leave

> > their bodies too, according to the literature. ...

>

> Interesting. How common is this in dogs? Are they a good model for

humans?

>

> Chuck

[Guest guest]

I've been " in dogs " for so many years that I don't even think other

people may have a different take on the language. If someone

says " dog " , I assume " male " . Females are " bitches " . For us dog

people, there is no other way of thinking about the word. This was

brought home to me one day a few years ago, when my husband and I

were lunching at a restaurant-- you know, one of those intimate

places where the tables are little round ones, and there are other

diners cheek by jowl around you. Being four dog people at our table,

we were (of course) talking dog. I was discussing a particularly

nasty bitch (female dog) when my husband brought it to my attention

that the people beside us were watching me very oddly. No doubt--

they had got an entirely different slant on the conversation! :-)))

Gail

In hypothyroidism , " Janaina Viggiano " <janaina@v...>

wrote:

>

> I must have brain fog, cause I read just this first line

>

> " Well, first, I have also read somewhere that bitches may become

hypo "

>

> And thought to myself " Oh crap, here comes another one of those

people

> who are gonna say that hypo is from unresolved feelings, and she is

> gonna blame it on anger issues! "

>

> I guess I should read the subject first. Either that or finish the

> sentence. LOL

>

>

>

>

> Jan

>

>

> Re: question about T4-dogs

>

>

> Well, first, I have also read somewhere that bitches may become

hypo

> after spaying. All our girls are spayed after their reproductive

> lives are over, and so far none of them has become hypo-- though

> their metabolisms do slow down and they tend more to fat. I would

> suggest that due to this, owners might be more inclined to check

> thyroid for the first time, find the problem, then they and their

> vets might attribute it to spaying. The truth is, those bitches

> probably were hypo long before that-- just unfortunately previously

> undiagnosed. There are very well-respected canine endocrinologists.

> Their findings are that there is no difference between dog ot

bitch,

> intact or not, all are at equal risk when it comes to

hypothyroidism.

> Gail

[Guest guest]

Not surprising to me. The vast majority of canine hypoT is

autoimmune, same as Hashimotos. When I see, or hear of, a dog

behaving unprovokedly aggressively towards another dog (almost always

dog to dog and bitch to bitch, but it can be dog to person as well),

and losing its cool very easily, unable to take any kind of stress,

edgy, attacking people or other animals, the first thing I advise

would be a thyroid check, specifically for thyroglobulin

autoantibodies. Even before the TSH, T4's and T3's are impacted, you

will see spurts of uncontrollable lashing out, with the AA's starting

in the blood. I firmly believe that many dogs that are put down for

attacking people, are hypothyroid. From my reading, it seems to be

the same in horses, and with hyperthyroid cats (cats get hyper, dogs

get hypo). I myself understand, because over the years I have had

this disease, I have had little spurts of anger-- which I have tried

very hard to manage so it doesn't show. I don't think it has been

obvious. My mother, when I told her a week and a half ago, that I

have diagnosed myself and started medication, told me that

considering how miserable I have been feeling for many years, I have

managed to keep my good disposition. I really appreciate that she has

noticed that-- because it has not been easy... Sometimes I don't give

my mum enough credit. She is the one who told me 20 years ago that I

should have my thyroid checked, because I have a layer of fat at the

base of my neck. And now, knowing that no doctor has diagnosed me for

hypoT, my parents both support me on taking the meds. on my own,

because they trust me to do what is best for myself. I also

appreciate that.

Gail

>

> >yes that's what I meant

> >What other group is nasty?

> >Gracia

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Gail I have been treating my daughter for the last few years--her

endo finally gave her armour in June---so I know how you feel!!! It

takes a lot of guts to take care of yourself especially with hypo we

have so many doubts!! But thank-goodness I did it--M would have never

finished her second year of college if I just let it go. I have

really no idea how much worse off she would be right now.

We all noticed M's shorter temper when she never had one before,

besides all the other symptoms that she was suffering from. She now

has had two periods in a row now---so in over 2 years she has had

only 3 of them.

Besides her digestive problems, hair loss, weight gain and memory

problems. It's been very difficult for a 20 year old!!!!!!!

and then finding it in all of the woman in my family as well as on

hubby's side!!!!

tina

> >

> > >yes that's what I meant

> > >What other group is nasty?

> > >Gracia

> > >

> > >

> > >