Guest guest Posted September 7, 1999 Report Share Posted September 7, 1999 I use kava-kava a few fimes a week. If anyone knows that this is bad for the liver, please tell.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 1999 Report Share Posted September 7, 1999 Hi , I just came back after being gone with a " flare " . I will share my experience. At the end of July I was feeling really sick. I had my labs run and my SED rate was 42 and my LFT's were 219 and 201 (GOT and GPT). My doctor told me I would need to take 60 mgs. of prednisone. I balked at this because I have taken that much pred before and all it did was make me feel worse. It took 4 months for me to get well. So, I went home and began my own herbal regimen while modestly increasing my prednisone to 10 mgs. a day (up from 3mgs. per day). I did research before beginning my herbs....I use several references and it was from those references that I developed an herbal regimen. I had my labs done again 5 days later and my LFT's were 194 and 195. One week later I had my labs done again and my SED rate was normal (19) and my LFT's were 88 and 100. I have also reduced my prednisone back down to 7 1/2 mgs. per day. I took the 10 mgs. for two days only since I felt so much worse on the pred. I reduced by 1/2 mg. per day until I settled on the 7 1/2 mgs. I also obtained acupuncture during this time which I believe was also instrumental in helping me to heal. I am supposed to have more labs done this week. It will have been two weeks since the second set of labs were done. Hopefully, my labs will be normal or at least close to normal. Herbal therapy does work, but you have to know what you are doing. You need to be in touch with your body and if you have an herbal practitioner that is the best. If not, you have to be persistent in your search for knowledge (as I am) and smart about what you take and how you take it. I had a reduction in liver enzymes of over 50% over a two week period using herbal therapy and low dose pred. (10 mgs. or less). My doctor is amazed. I am thrilled. Take care, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 1999 Report Share Posted September 7, 1999 could you list the herbs you took, sounds like you know alot about them.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 1999 Report Share Posted September 7, 1999 Hi all, I also looked up Kava Kava in " Earl Mindell's Herb Bible " , it says that long term use can cause liver damage. I also used " The Prescription for Natural Healing " and found the following info: Kava Kava - toxic to liver St. 's Wort - no info on liver, but does cause sun sensitivity Vitamin A - toxic to liver in LARGE doses like 50,000 IU (well duh!) Alfalfa - toxic to autoimmune disorders It looks like Milk Thistle is the # 1 choice for the liver.... (AIH) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 1999 Report Share Posted September 7, 1999 I forgot, do you do the herbs all the time from now on? Lynn Ceallachqn@... wrote: > From: Ceallachqn@... > > Hi , > I just came back after being gone with a " flare " . I will share my > experience. At the end of July I was feeling really sick. I had my labs run > and my SED rate was 42 and my LFT's were 219 and 201 (GOT and GPT). My > doctor told me I would need to take 60 mgs. of prednisone. I balked at this > because I have taken that much pred before and all it did was make me feel > worse. It took 4 months for me to get well. > > So, I went home and began my own herbal regimen while modestly increasing my > prednisone to 10 mgs. a day (up from 3mgs. per day). I did research before > beginning my herbs....I use several references and it was from those > references that I developed an herbal regimen. I had my labs done again 5 > days later and my LFT's were 194 and 195. One week later I had my labs done > again and my SED rate was normal (19) and my LFT's were 88 and 100. I have > also reduced my prednisone back down to 7 1/2 mgs. per day. I took the 10 > mgs. for two days only since I felt so much worse on the pred. I reduced by > 1/2 mg. per day until I settled on the 7 1/2 mgs. I also obtained > acupuncture during this time which I believe was also instrumental in helping > me to heal. I am supposed to have more labs done this week. It will have > been two weeks since the second set of labs were done. Hopefully, my labs > will be normal or at least close to normal. > > Herbal therapy does work, but you have to know what you are doing. You need > to be in touch with your body and if you have an herbal practitioner that is > the best. If not, you have to be persistent in your search for knowledge (as > I am) and smart about what you take and how you take it. I had a reduction > in liver enzymes of over 50% over a two week period using herbal therapy and > low dose pred. (10 mgs. or less). My doctor is amazed. I am thrilled. Take > care, > > --------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 1999 Report Share Posted September 7, 1999 , how did you get a flare, when you do so well most of the time? What causes that when a person seems to be doing just fine. Lynn aih Ceallachqn@... wrote: > From: Ceallachqn@... > > Hi , > I just came back after being gone with a " flare " . I will share my > experience. At the end of July I was feeling really sick. I had my labs run > and my SED rate was 42 and my LFT's were 219 and 201 (GOT and GPT). My > doctor told me I would need to take 60 mgs. of prednisone. I balked at this > because I have taken that much pred before and all it did was make me feel > worse. It took 4 months for me to get well. > > So, I went home and began my own herbal regimen while modestly increasing my > prednisone to 10 mgs. a day (up from 3mgs. per day). I did research before > beginning my herbs....I use several references and it was from those > references that I developed an herbal regimen. I had my labs done again 5 > days later and my LFT's were 194 and 195. One week later I had my labs done > again and my SED rate was normal (19) and my LFT's were 88 and 100. I have > also reduced my prednisone back down to 7 1/2 mgs. per day. I took the 10 > mgs. for two days only since I felt so much worse on the pred. I reduced by > 1/2 mg. per day until I settled on the 7 1/2 mgs. I also obtained > acupuncture during this time which I believe was also instrumental in helping > me to heal. I am supposed to have more labs done this week. It will have > been two weeks since the second set of labs were done. Hopefully, my labs > will be normal or at least close to normal. > > Herbal therapy does work, but you have to know what you are doing. You need > to be in touch with your body and if you have an herbal practitioner that is > the best. If not, you have to be persistent in your search for knowledge (as > I am) and smart about what you take and how you take it. I had a reduction > in liver enzymes of over 50% over a two week period using herbal therapy and > low dose pred. (10 mgs. or less). My doctor is amazed. I am thrilled. Take > care, > > --------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 1999 Report Share Posted September 7, 1999 Dear , Can I ask you what your herbal remedy regimen was/is? Also, what company or brand do you use? I've also done a lot of research into this, but am worried in general about everything...but still smiling!!! Thanks, >From: Ceallachqn@... >Reply- onelist > onelist >Subject: Re: [ ] Herbal therapy >Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 12:44:50 EDT > >From: Ceallachqn@... > >Hi , >I just came back after being gone with a " flare " . I will share my >experience. At the end of July I was feeling really sick. I had my labs >run >and my SED rate was 42 and my LFT's were 219 and 201 (GOT and GPT). My >doctor told me I would need to take 60 mgs. of prednisone. I balked at >this >because I have taken that much pred before and all it did was make me feel >worse. It took 4 months for me to get well. > >So, I went home and began my own herbal regimen while modestly increasing >my >prednisone to 10 mgs. a day (up from 3mgs. per day). I did research before >beginning my herbs....I use several references and it was from those >references that I developed an herbal regimen. I had my labs done again 5 >days later and my LFT's were 194 and 195. One week later I had my labs >done >again and my SED rate was normal (19) and my LFT's were 88 and 100. I have >also reduced my prednisone back down to 7 1/2 mgs. per day. I took the 10 >mgs. for two days only since I felt so much worse on the pred. I reduced >by >1/2 mg. per day until I settled on the 7 1/2 mgs. I also obtained >acupuncture during this time which I believe was also instrumental in >helping >me to heal. I am supposed to have more labs done this week. It will have >been two weeks since the second set of labs were done. Hopefully, my labs >will be normal or at least close to normal. > >Herbal therapy does work, but you have to know what you are doing. You >need >to be in touch with your body and if you have an herbal practitioner that >is >the best. If not, you have to be persistent in your search for knowledge >(as >I am) and smart about what you take and how you take it. I had a reduction >in liver enzymes of over 50% over a two week period using herbal therapy >and >low dose pred. (10 mgs. or less). My doctor is amazed. I am thrilled. >Take >care, > >--------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 1999 Report Share Posted September 7, 1999 Hi , Sorry, I hadn't gotten to your posting yet..thank you for sharing. I hadn't read anything about combining herbs. Which ones do you combine? I take a multi-vitamin and Vitamin E, and am considering starting on milk thistle, b-complex, and burdock root. I'm planning to introduce each one to see how I react. I think I had a negative reaction to the Vitamin C earlier, but that's when I was sick, so... Have you read anything about thymic extract? My naturopath had given me this, and I read a recent article written by Dr.Czaza from the Mayo Clinic that also mentioned this. Just curious.. >From: Ceallachqn@... >Reply- onelist > onelist >Subject: Re: [ ] Herbal therapy >Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 22:06:54 EDT > >From: Ceallachqn@... > >I will list the herbs that I took, but I do suggest that you do your >research >on them before doing anything. Every person is different and I have spent >a >considerable amount of time learning about my body and how it responds to >different things. > >Turmeric - this herb is commonly found in your curry powder. It is an >anti-inflammatory >Milk Thistle >Burdock Root >Artichoke >Dandelion Root >Kelp >Peppermint Tea >Digestive Enzymes with each meal >Vitamin C >B-complex > >The combination of herbs is also important. Herbs work together and I have >found it more effective to combine my herbs for the best results. I >followed >the information in a book I have called Clinical Application of Herbal >Medicine by D. Barney M.D. I also double checked the information in >that book with other resource books I have as well as online sources of >information. Hope this helps give you a start. Take care, > >--------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 1999 Report Share Posted September 7, 1999 I will list the herbs that I took, but I do suggest that you do your research on them before doing anything. Every person is different and I have spent a considerable amount of time learning about my body and how it responds to different things. Turmeric - this herb is commonly found in your curry powder. It is an anti-inflammatory Milk Thistle Burdock Root Artichoke Dandelion Root Kelp Peppermint Tea Digestive Enzymes with each meal Vitamin C B-complex The combination of herbs is also important. Herbs work together and I have found it more effective to combine my herbs for the best results. I followed the information in a book I have called Clinical Application of Herbal Medicine by D. Barney M.D. I also double checked the information in that book with other resource books I have as well as online sources of information. Hope this helps give you a start. Take care, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 1999 Report Share Posted September 7, 1999 As I mentioned in a prior post, herbs arbitrarily on their own are not the best choice. Taking one on its own can be beneficial or toxic. Much also depends on dose. This is why it is important to consult several sources before making choices about herbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 1999 Report Share Posted September 7, 1999 What is burdock root good for? J >From: " emily simpson " <esimpson7@...> >Reply- onelist > onelist >Subject: Re: [ ] Herbal therapy >Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 21:49:40 PDT >MIME-Version: 1.0 >From errors-165537-6148-shireen42=hotmail.comonelist Tue Sep 7 >21:49:49 1999 >Received: (qmail 30584 invoked by alias); 8 Sep 1999 04:49:47 -0000 >Received: (qmail 30520 invoked from network); 8 Sep 1999 04:49:46 -0000 >Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (207.82.252.195) by >pop1.onelist.com with SMTP; 8 Sep 1999 04:49:46 -0000 >Received: (qmail 63684 invoked by uid 0); 8 Sep 1999 04:49:41 -0000 >Message-ID: <19990908044941.63683.qmail@...> >Received: from 205.209.21.41 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 07 Sep 1999 >21:49:40 PDT >X-Originating-IP: [205.209.21.41] >Mailing-List: list onelist; contact > -owneronelist >Delivered-mailing list onelist >Precedence: bulk >List-Unsubscribe: <mailto: -unsubscribeONElist> > >From: " emily simpson " <esimpson7@...> > >Hi , > >Sorry, I hadn't gotten to your posting yet..thank you for sharing. I hadn't >read anything about combining herbs. Which ones do you combine? > >I take a multi-vitamin and Vitamin E, and am considering starting on milk >thistle, b-complex, and burdock root. I'm planning to introduce each one >to >see how I react. I think I had a negative reaction to the Vitamin C >earlier, but that's when I was sick, so... > >Have you read anything about thymic extract? My naturopath had given me >this, and I read a recent article written by Dr.Czaza from the Mayo Clinic >that also mentioned this. Just curious.. > > > > >>From: Ceallachqn@... >>Reply- onelist >> onelist >>Subject: Re: [ ] Herbal therapy >>Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 22:06:54 EDT >> >>From: Ceallachqn@... >> >>I will list the herbs that I took, but I do suggest that you do your >>research >>on them before doing anything. Every person is different and I have spent >>a >>considerable amount of time learning about my body and how it responds to >>different things. >> >>Turmeric - this herb is commonly found in your curry powder. It is an >>anti-inflammatory >>Milk Thistle >>Burdock Root >>Artichoke >>Dandelion Root >>Kelp >>Peppermint Tea >>Digestive Enzymes with each meal >>Vitamin C >>B-complex >> >>The combination of herbs is also important. Herbs work together and I >>have >>found it more effective to combine my herbs for the best results. I >>followed >>the information in a book I have called Clinical Application of Herbal >>Medicine by D. Barney M.D. I also double checked the information in >>that book with other resource books I have as well as online sources of >>information. Hope this helps give you a start. Take care, >> >>--------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 1999 Report Share Posted September 7, 1999 I use some herbs. I have been told to be very careful on ones that affect the immune system because our immunde systems are already compromised. I have gotten good info from Naturopaths and my Accupuncturist. Might be worth a visit to one of these type of drs. nancy@... wrote: > From: nancy@... > > It is strange to be tired and still not be sleeping well. I have thought about using herbal remedies. I don't know how they affect the liver. I have heard of kava kava and of Saint-'s-Wort. Right now I am using warm milk and computer solitaire to get sleepy. Does anyone have thoughts on the herbs? Thanks, AIH > > --------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 1999 Report Share Posted September 7, 1999 Hello to all, and thanks for the information. I guess I will stick with warm milk! Regards, La7de@... wrote: > From: La7de@... > > Hi all, > I also looked up Kava Kava in " Earl Mindell's Herb Bible " , it says that long > term use can cause liver damage. I also used " The Prescription for Natural > Healing " and found the following info: > > Kava Kava - toxic to liver > St. 's Wort - no info on liver, but does cause sun sensitivity > Vitamin A - toxic to liver in LARGE doses like 50,000 IU (well duh!) > Alfalfa - toxic to autoimmune disorders > > It looks like Milk Thistle is the # 1 choice for the liver.... > > (AIH) > > --------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 1999 Report Share Posted September 8, 1999 , Fatigue from liver disease, aggravated by the meds most of us are taking, is so different from the kind of fatigue most of us recognize from physical exhaustion or lack of sleep. I think you have to experience it to understand. I battled terrible insomnia for a couple of years pre-AIH diagnosis and there were times I thought I'd die from lack of sleep. It was hell unlike anything I could have imagined. I was told Prednisone would probably make it worse, but surprisingly, after taking the meds for awhile, and as my labs began to normalize, the insomnia stopped. My current poor sleeping habits are more of an emotional thing I can't quite fathom. I just feel driven to get as much out of every day as I can, even if it means almost never sleeping. About herbals, I've been warned over and over and over by virtually every doctor I've seen, not to take herbals of any kind. I have no personal objection to them, but whether it's herbals or traditional meds, I want to know that they've been tested by pharmacology labs and I want to read the authority on what the possible side effects can be. With herbals, we have to go by hearsay and unofficial word about effectiveness. There is no official control and that scares me. In my opinion, it's not safe for any of us with diseased livers and /or autoimmune conditions, to assume that any treatment that is normally safe and effective for healthy people will work for us and be safe for us. We are not the same as other people or our bodies wouldn't be rejecting our livers. I know that many people swear by them, but who can be sure what will happen down the line? Anyhow, there's a lot of personal choice involved with herbals as far as I'm concerned, and I steer clear of them. Take care, Geri Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 1999 Report Share Posted September 8, 1999 , My doc has asked about a source book re herbal therapy. do you know of one you can recommend? susan J >From: Ceallachqn@... >Reply- onelist > onelist >Subject: Re: [ ]Herbal therapy >Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 11:18:21 EDT >MIME-Version: 1.0 >From errors-165537-6182-shireen42=hotmail.comonelist Wed Sep 8 >08:18:29 1999 >Received: (qmail 32481 invoked by alias); 8 Sep 1999 15:18:09 -0000 >Received: (qmail 32415 invoked from network); 8 Sep 1999 15:18:08 -0000 >Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d10.mx) (205.188.157.42) by >pop.onelist.com with SMTP; 8 Sep 1999 15:18:08 -0000 >Received: from Ceallachqn@... by imo-d10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) >id hOKQpNytF_ (4566) for < onelist>; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 >11:18:21 -0400 (EDT) >Message-ID: <9f7e80bf.2507d83d@...> >X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 >Mailing-List: list onelist; contact > -owneronelist >Delivered-mailing list onelist >Precedence: bulk >List-Unsubscribe: <mailto: -unsubscribeONElist> > >From: Ceallachqn@... > >Hello everyone, >I can see that once again it is getting stirred up here over the herbal >thing. I would suggest to all that before you say yes or no to herbs that >you do your research. Herbal treatment is not dependent on heresay or >conjecture. There is documented research. > >The reason that herbs and vitamins are not regulated by the FDA is because >they are natural. Let me explain. In order for an herb or vitamin to be >marketed and patented, it must be altered - chemically. They have to >change >something because no one can patent a naturally occurring substance. > >The reason doctors say no herbs to people with chronic illness is because >they don't understand herbs themselves. They are concerned that a person >could do themselves harm by taking herbs they don't understand. Doctors >are >right on that count, you need to realize what you are taking. However, >doctors also prescribe serious drugs that cause problems. I have had >reactions to over 10 different medications and never had a reaction to an >herb. > >If you think herbs are dangerous then you need to visit an Indian >community, >study up on ancient civilizations or take a trip to Europe or China where >natural medicine is supported. Don't just arbitrarily condemn something >because you don't understand it or know enough about it to provide an >educated opinion. > >--------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 1999 Report Share Posted September 8, 1999 Hello everyone, I can see that once again it is getting stirred up here over the herbal thing. I would suggest to all that before you say yes or no to herbs that you do your research. Herbal treatment is not dependent on heresay or conjecture. There is documented research. The reason that herbs and vitamins are not regulated by the FDA is because they are natural. Let me explain. In order for an herb or vitamin to be marketed and patented, it must be altered - chemically. They have to change something because no one can patent a naturally occurring substance. The reason doctors say no herbs to people with chronic illness is because they don't understand herbs themselves. They are concerned that a person could do themselves harm by taking herbs they don't understand. Doctors are right on that count, you need to realize what you are taking. However, doctors also prescribe serious drugs that cause problems. I have had reactions to over 10 different medications and never had a reaction to an herb. If you think herbs are dangerous then you need to visit an Indian community, study up on ancient civilizations or take a trip to Europe or China where natural medicine is supported. Don't just arbitrarily condemn something because you don't understand it or know enough about it to provide an educated opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 1999 Report Share Posted September 8, 1999 thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 1999 Report Share Posted September 8, 1999 Hi Geri, I appreciate your response. I didn't have much of a vacation since I spent it feeling pretty yucky, but oh well! As far as taking offense when someone does not agree with me....I don't have a problem with people disagreeing with me when it comes from a well founded position. What I get bugged by are statements that are not made without research behind them. It is obvious to me that you are a well-rounded person and intelligent. I agree that not everyone will take information and use it wisely....which is why I was somewhat reluctant to even post the herbs that I use. I keep writing on here that you need to do your research or find someone who is qualified. I agree with you on other points as well. I have run into so many quacks in the natural health world that it is ridiculous. I will never forget the first alternative doctor I saw. He told me to just start reducing my prednisone and Imuran and see what happened. What an idiot. Needless to say, I never went back to that guy. Oh, and get this....his name was Dr. Kwako.....maybe that should have been " Quacko " ! At any rate, yes I have learned to weed out the ding dongs from the respectable. I am also not a fad oriented herbal person. I have stated that before. It is sad about your son. I realize that he does not suffer now. He was in the classic situation of someone who could not see the benefits of both sides of the fence - medically speaking. This is part of what gives herbal medicine a bad name. I am forever advocating the unification of the traditional and " holistic " or " natural " medicine. I believe that they can work hand in hand. I am an example of that. I think that most people can thrive on natural medicine alone. Those of us with chronic illness most likely need both aspects to live comfortably or live at all. Take care, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 1999 Report Share Posted September 8, 1999 Hi , How was your vacation and where did you go? You left just before I did, I think. Herbals and alternative medicine first reared it's controversial head in my life when our son was diagnosed with ALS and told he had less than 3 years to live. He'd always been " big " on herbals and alternative meds and refused to take the drugs that might have at least improved the quality of his life and perhaps even lengthened it. He died less than 2 1/2 years after he was diagnosed and his deterioration was exceptionally rapid. I don't think that herbals hastened his death, but his decision to put his faith in them instead of in meds that might have done him a little good couldn't have helped. I was involved with the Compuserve European Forum at the time and I had friends throughout Europe contacting pharmaceutical companies and digging up every scrap of info on treatment for that horrible disease that was available. Eventually, it was too little too late, because when he finally accepted one of the only known drugs that might have helped a little, he was already well into the paralysis process. I don't know that the " usual " drugs would have helped him nor do I think that his alternative choices hurt him, but ALS is a disease of desperation and is ALWAYS fatal, totally incurable and virtually untreatable. One thing I was certain about was that if an alternative treatment or herbal would help, victims of this disease would have used them . It's a disease of desperation and patients have nothing to lose except time. Time or Newsweek recently did an article on herbals and because of that I got my husband to start using Saw Palmetto for urinary tract problems. It seems to have resulted in exceptional improvement. I also bought Lecithin for him because of the good things I heard about it in this group. Unfortunately, I no longer can remember what it's supposed to do but I don't admit that to him. I just tell him that he should take it because he needs it. One of these days he's going to ask more questions and I'll be found out. When we were doing a lot of international travel I tried whatsis - the herbal that's supposed to prevent jet lag and help with insomnia. It actually made me feel a little ill so I stopped. For me, alternative treatments are a resource when nothing else helps and traditional medicine has nothing to offer. I feel that I can't afford to take chances because my body won't tolerate additional liver damage. On the other hand, I'm positive that I'd feel 99% better without Prednisone and Imuran. The scary thing is that with liver disease you don't know how bad things are until it's almost too late. I felt great just weeks before that nice doctor told me I was dying back in 1997. Fortunately, he was wrong. We lived in Europe for three years. In fact, we lived in Switzerland and we were surrounded by some of the largest pharmaceutical companies in the world (in Cantons Aargau and Basel). Medicine in Europe is inconsistent. We had doctors who were total crackpots and others who were excellent. None ever suggested alternative medicine to us nor did our European friends. (We knew few Americans while we lived there and the majority of our European friends had never visited the US.) In fact, we were prescribed meds over there that our US doctors say they " wish " were available in the US because they are so far superior to what the FDA had approved here. I'm referring to one drug for high blood pressure my hubby took and hormones that I took that could have been Evista, according to my Las Vegas Internist. At least in Switzerland, where they do not have socialized medicine like they do in some European countries, doctors and pharmacies don't have the profit motive to " push " drugs that exists here. A pharmacist can dispense almost any drug over the counter if you can convince them you need it, though for long term use you need a prescription. Costs are stunningly lower there than they are here for the exact same meds and they are strictly regulated to keep costs down. Our experience over there was that though some doctors may offer alternative treatments, those treatments were not always wise or safe. One doctor sent me in for 4 times weekly massage therapy - terrific considering that the therapist was a gorgeous, sexy young Dutchman - but it almost killed me because I had an 1.5 cm. kidney stone that was cutting the inside of my kidney and he was massaging the area over my kidney, causing serious bleeding. Luckily, my Dutch friend was wiser than the doctor and told me that he was certain that I had a problem that was NOT musculo-skeletal. My husband was given weekly injections for a year of some concoction by a " naturalist " for back pain that did nothing for him but made the doctor richer. My husband's job took him to Pakistan about once a month and he became very friendly with a Pakistani-Afghan who is the Swiss Consular Officer in Lahore, Pakistan. Suliman often visited us in Switzerland and he told me once that medicine available in Pakistan (which used to be part of India) is so inadequate he wanted me to accept a position as a liaison between Swiss pharmaceutical companies and Pakistan to bring desperately needed meds into the country. He said that children were dying because of lack of medications. I have no qualifications for a job like that but the suggestion was in conjunction with his efforts to convince us that we should stay in Europe. I guess what I'm saying is that I have no doubt that there are herbals that are tremendously beneficial, but we can't lose sight of the fact that life expectancy has been dramatically improved because of advances in medicine and improved drugs. The herbals that our ancestors took and that " unenlightened " nations rely on have done little to extend their life expectancy. It's simply all they have. On the other hand, there are many tried and true natural remedies that have been around and used for centuries that are far superior to anything artificially manufactured. The question is, which is which? You've done considerable research on herbals and it's been clearly to your advantage. You know what you're doing but not everyone does. However, there's too much tendency - a human weakness - to grasp at hope wherever it's offered, so where you use herbals wisely, someone else might not and end up far more sick than they need to be, or worse. If I studied alternatives like you have and became convinced that they would help, I'd have no problem taking them. If there was a centralized source of studies and information on herbals that had nothing to sell but qualified information, I'd listen. Heck, I'm listening now and trying to stay objective. For me at least, this is not a time to experiment. But we each have to make our own decisions. What you have to offer all of us, , is your knowledge about these alternatives. You offer the benefit of your research and experience. After that, it's up to us to make up our minds what's best for us. Clearly, many of us have not gotten the best care from our doctors and traditional medicine, so I can identify with the desire to look for help elsewhere. Please, don't take offense when someone doesn't agree with you or may not accept without question the information you offer. I offer all kinds of advice and I hope that everyone who reads it takes it with a grain of salt and arrives at their own conclusions. Take care, Geri Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 1999 Report Share Posted September 8, 1999 Ceallachqn@... wrote: > Hello everyone, > I can see that once again it is getting stirred up here over the herbal > thing. I would suggest to all that before you say yes or no to herbs that > you do your research. Herbal treatment is not dependent on heresay or > conjecture. There is documented research. Would you cite your sources for this research? > The reason that herbs and vitamins are not regulated by the FDA is because > they are natural. Not being regulated by the FDA is precisely why you should be extra cautious when using herbal remedies. > I have had > reactions to over 10 different medications and never had a reaction to an > herb. You are either VERY careful about what and how much of each herb you take, or you are VERY lucky. My liver specialist, my rheumatologist, and my primary physician have all told me NOT to take herbs. If your doctors okay their use, great! > If you think herbs are dangerous then you need to visit an Indian community I am a Cherokee Indian. When the American Indian used herbs, they were not subject to other outside influences, such as the polluted environment, mixing herbs with prescription and over-the-counter medication, etc. Trust me, few American Indians still use herbs to cure everything. It's next to impossible to find a medicine man anywhere. > China where > natural medicine is supported. They eat dogs, too. But I wouldn't want to do that either, just because they do. But your point is right, do your research before you try new medicines and herbs. Just my humble opinion ... Nina in TX PBC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 1999 Report Share Posted September 10, 1999 , what do you know about lecithin and how much to take per day. J >From: La7de@... >Reply- onelist > onelist >Subject: Re: [ ] Herbal therapy >Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 18:58:30 EDT >MIME-Version: 1.0 >From errors-165537-6109-shireen42=hotmail.comonelist Tue Sep 7 >15:58:39 1999 >Received: (qmail 23515 invoked by alias); 7 Sep 1999 22:59:18 -0000 >Received: (qmail 23507 invoked from network); 7 Sep 1999 22:59:17 -0000 >Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d08.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.40) by >pop1.onelist.com with SMTP; 7 Sep 1999 22:59:17 -0000 >Received: from La7de@... by imo-d08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id >hKPVKAB37_ (4540) for < onelist>; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 >18:58:31 -0400 (EDT) >Message-ID: <512aeaa6.2506f296@...> >X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 22 >Mailing-List: list onelist; contact > -owneronelist >Delivered-mailing list onelist >Precedence: bulk >List-Unsubscribe: <mailto: -unsubscribeONElist> > >From: La7de@... > >Hi all, >I also looked up Kava Kava in " Earl Mindell's Herb Bible " , it says that >long >term use can cause liver damage. I also used " The Prescription for Natural >Healing " and found the following info: > >Kava Kava - toxic to liver >St. 's Wort - no info on liver, but does cause sun sensitivity >Vitamin A - toxic to liver in LARGE doses like 50,000 IU (well >duh!) >Alfalfa - toxic to autoimmune disorders > >It looks like Milk Thistle is the # 1 choice for the liver.... > > (AIH) > >--------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 1999 Report Share Posted September 11, 1999 , I personally don't know anything about Lecithin, and after all I've read in these posts, I'd be very afraid to take anything without going through my GI! Sorry... (AIH) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 1999 Report Share Posted September 11, 1999 In a message dated 09/11/1999 12:33:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time, shireen42@... writes: << From: " susan johnson " <shireen42@...> , what do you know about lecithin and how much to take per day. J >> Hi Everyone, At the risk of starting some conflicts I have to say this. The discussion of herbs as a alternative medicine here has caused me some concern. None of us are doctors, nurtrionist, etc. I think the first and foremost thing that should be done is to search for your self what herb you think will work. THEN CHECK WITH YOUR DOCTOR IF IT IS ADVISABLE FOR YOU TO TAKE THEM. What works for one person might not be good for the next. If I have offended anyone please, please, please forgive me. But this has been bothering me for some time. There are several of us who takes herbs, they work for us. We studied them, I, for one checked with my doctor, I take them over the day, I believe in them. We all are looking for cures and answers, I know I sure am. I have learned a lot from this list and expect to learn more. Together we have a wealth of knowledge and experience. But the button line is " It all comes back to each of us individually to take control of our lives. " and again, if I have offended any one it was not my intention. I am always surfing for new information, that is time consuming. My husband is a paraplegic confined to bed. I have total care of him, I am his legs, some days I am up more then down, LOL. I keep adding to me web site this information. With this all said, I say to all, Have a good day, and remember...Laughter is the music of a happy heart, love is it's sustenance. Sooooo...laugh a lot, it is healing. Joan, AIH, PBC, HBP Florida Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 1999 Report Share Posted September 11, 1999 , Sorry you didn't feel well during your vacation. Some vacation! I did fine except for fatigue. I'd convinced myself I have tons of stamina but apparently not anymore. I'm actually worried that someone will listen too closely to me when I discuss medications. Whether they are knowledgeable or not, what might work for me could be all wrong for them. I admit I know just about nothing about herbals and for that matter, even about vitamins. It's a whole new world to me. My husband and I used to shake our heads and mumble to each other when our son would advise us about things like " free radicals " (are they a bunch of student dissidents?) and anti-oxidants (what's wrong with oxidants and why anti- them?) I didn't even take vitamins when I was pregnant, since a family friend who was a doctor told me that a healthy person doesn't need supplements. Pre-AIH, I'd always assumed I was healthy. Sometimes it's distressing to read the various ways different doctors are advising different people. I suspect that the reason for this is that AIH and probably all of the autoimmune diseases have a tendency to take unpredictable courses and treatment has to be geared to the individual. So many have the objective to get off Prednisone but I was told yet again today that it's out of the question for me. In fact, I was told that even a reduction to 2.5 mgs. was risky for relapse. I thought the concern was adrenal insufficiency but apparently that's not the main concern at all. The doctor specifically told me that the decision to keep me on Prednisone for life is based on the history of the course my AIH has taken. I totally understand the reasoning behind keeping me on Imuran for life. Yet, clearly some people have successfully gone off both drugs. On the other hand, a relapse even 10 years from now should be avoided and if the meds will prevent that, I'll take my chances with the meds. Our son was strong minded and opinionated. One of those " bigger than life " people. He was so vigorous and healthy all of his life, I think he thought that sheer willpower could defeat his disease. I wish he would have approached his ALS differently but it was one of those decisions that only he could make. I suspect that he thought that through herbals he could repair any damage he'd done to himself by being too reckless in his lifestyle sometimes. And, how can you believe in traditional medication when you've never taken it and yet have been stronger than almost everyone you know? We could play retrospect forever and not gain a thing. I just wish he would have tried harder and explored other options - more traditional options. My mother was a great one for " old fashioned " remedies. Not specifically for herbals, but she seemed to have some turn of the century treatment for everything, passed down by her mother and grandmother. There's some wisdom in some of those remedies. The juice of a fresh lemon in a cup of hot water (with honey or sugar, please!) is the best thing in the world for chest congestion. It's what I use and in fact, I've never bought an OTC drug for congestion. Gargling with hot, salt water soothes and heals a sore throat better than any drug. Even doctors recommend it. Durng the last years of her life, my Grandmother drank a glass of wine before bedtime so she could sleep - on her doctor's recommendation. She'd never drank in her life before that. She said it really worked. You can imagine the jokes in my heavy drinking Irish Catholic family. Half my family keeps a cactus (aloe vera?) growing and cuts off a bit to use on burns and they swear by it. My brother used to use DMSO for back pain and swore it worked. Many doctors and scientists agreed a few years ago. In a way, those were just forerunners of the current interest in herbal remedies. Now, here's a surprise, however. We have many Asian friends - both US born and those born and raised in other countries. Not one of them uses herbal remedies or even acupuncture! I worked for a Chinese owned air cargo firm for a couple of years and those guys (from Hong Kong and Taiwan) spent so much time at doctor's office it was like they were making up for lost time. I have no idea why, and back then I wouldn't have thought to ask. As you say, it's a matter or research and education. None of us should take anything merely on the recommendation of a friend or acquaintance. There is too much at stake. And, what works for one might be deadly for another one of us. My new Internist is involved with a group that investigates new meds and is involved in studies. He is exceptionally knowledgeable about medications and I trust him. I have to, since my life depends on it. He doesn't just recommend, he tells me exactly why something is good to take and goes over the possible problems. Instead of expecting me to blindly accept a new medication, he discusses it with me and lets me make the decision, to a point. Prednisone and Imuran are two exceptions. Gotta have 'em, and so be it! Take care, Geri Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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