Guest guest Posted April 24, 2006 Report Share Posted April 24, 2006 Catarina, Your situation sounds very much like mine. Where are your Free t3 and Free t4 labs? Are you at the higher end of the normal range? Also, why are you hypo to begin with, as in.. did you have RAI or surgery or anything? Im just curious, as I had total RAI 20 years ago, and my TSH is like yours, way way low. But one difference is, I still dont feel good. Much fatigue. I dont pay much attention to my TSH, as without a thyroid (like me) why should I have ANY thyroid stimulating hormone anyway? Its so confusing. suppressed TSH I have some thoughts about and questions concerning suppressed TSH; please share your experiences and/or thoughts with me. Ever since I started taking thyroid meds in 2001, I have been able to conclude that I need a very low (less than 0.05) TSH to feel fine. The first endo I saw told me that the ideal TSH was somewhere between 1.0-1.5. Once there, I would feel great and all the problems and symptoms would be gone. I reached the so called ideal TSH when I was on 150 mcg of T4 a day but, surprise...I did not feel fine at all. So, with the blessing of my GP, I started raising my daily dosis of T4 until starting to add some synthetic T3 in 2002. In my own experience, it is impossible to get the TSH I need (0.03 or less) on T4 alone. I need additional T3 to get my TSH down to the level where I feel fine. In 2004, I switched to Armour thanks to Dr Hertoghe and I have been fine since. Armour seems to work best for me. However, I have noticed that my TSH is even more suppressed now than a year ago. In June 2005, I had a TSH of 0.03 when taking 150 mcg (2 1/2 grains) of Armour daily. Since then, I have cut back some on Armour and added some T4 instead (after reading many accounts stating that many humans need to balance their T4 levels when on Armour as pigs make the same hormones as humans, but more T3 than T4 while humans make more T4 than T3). Today, I take 2 grains of Armour and 50 mcg of T4 and that seems to work just fine. However, my latest TSH (two weeks ago) was 0.005...in other words, extremely low. I have the same amounts of fT3 and fT4 in my blood as in 2005 according to the lab tests, but my TSH has dropped even lower. This particular lab is able to detect even levels this low, but most labs here in Belgium would simple state " TSH undetectable " or " below 0.01 " . Isn't it a bit funny that my fT3 and fT4 levels are stable while my TSH continues to drop? I fail to see the importance of TSH once you are diagnosed with thyroid disease. It may be useful to detect thyroid disorders and start treatment, but I have read about so many patients not feeling well even on a low normal TSH to start doubting its usefulness or accuracy. Many books on thyroid disease say that if you are still not feeling well once you have normal lab values, you should try to get your TSH into the lower normal range. But no book I have read even mentions the fact that many people need less than normal TSH to feel really fine. I have my next appointment with Hertoghe in two weeks and I am curious to see what he has to say about my new and very low TSH. I wonder if he too is going to consider me hyperthyroid and cut back even more on my Armour? Being a doc and all, he should focus more on symptoms than lab values, but you never know... By the way, has anyone here tried to add some synthetic T4 to your Armour? I read somewhere that the reason some people feel slightly hyperthyroid when on Armour, although they need it, is that they need to balance their T4 levels as Armour contains too little T4 for humans. It sounded logic to me, so I simply added 50 mcg of T4 and I have to admit that I feel even better than on Armour alone. If 2 grains of Armour equals +/- 150 mcg of T4, this means that I am currently taking the equivalent of 200 mcg of synthetic T4. It would be interesting to hear about your experiences! Catarina --------------------------------- New Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2006 Report Share Posted April 24, 2006 Hi , My fT3 is 3.9 (ref 2.2.4-0) and my fT4 1.5 (ref 0.8-1.8). When I took the test, I had not taken any thyroid drugs for 12 hours (when a doctor made the mistake of having blood drawn 3 hours after taking the meds, my fT3 was very high, 7.5, and the doctor concluded that I was hyper and wanted to take me off Armour right away. After that, I read that you should not have blood drawn unless it has been at least 8 hours since you last took your meds.) I have Hashimotos, and I have discovered that a suppressed TSH keeps my antibodies calm. They have gone from 3600 to less than 60, and as long as my TSH is suppressed they stay there. I found a lot of great info on www.stopthethyroidmadness.com. /Catarina --------------------------------- New Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2006 Report Share Posted April 24, 2006 Catarina, You wrote: > ...I fail to see the importance of TSH once you are diagnosed with > thyroid disease. ... It is not the diagnosis, but the Armour. The American Academy of Clinical Biochemistry has recommended a change to the limits once treatment has begun. As their report describes, the lower limit was really set by the sensitivity of the assay. If you can't measure accurately below 0.3, only go there with caution. They point out that only the elderly might have problems slightly below that limit, but it could still be safe for others. http://thyroid.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ & sdn=thyroid & zu=http%3A%2\ F%2Fwww.nacb.org%2Flmpg%2Fthyroid_LMPG_PDF.stm Armour and T3 in general are well known to suppress TSH much more than T4. So, it could well be that the " normal " TSH for you is below the measurable limit. As you stated, though, TSH is still by far the most sensitive parameter for initial screening for both hyperT and hypoT. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 6, 2008 Report Share Posted May 6, 2008 Hi Sheila, When you say: >Your Free T4 needs to be in the quartile of the reference range as >should your Free T3. which quartile do you mean - is it upper or 4th? Jane's results are not unlike my most recent one of TSH .484 ref range: .350 - 5.500 FT4 10.7 " " 4.5 - 12 FT3 125 " " 85 - 205 I am not on a high dose of L-thyroxine I do have antibodies (Hashi's). jane mentions gathering ammo for her next appt - yes me too except I am thinking of it more as a learning curve for me rather than ammo! Thanks, M. > > HI Jane > > The usual reference interval for TSH is around 0.5 to 5.0 (changes though with each laboratory around the UK - but that is a rough guide. To feel good, most people do well when their TSH is around 1.0. Anybody who has a TSH above the top of the range should be diagnosed with hypothyroidism. Your TSH of .61 is suppressed, and this is what we would expect from somebody who is either on high dose thyroxine or from taking natural thyroiod extract like Armour Thyroid - or - this could show you are hypERthyroid. We would need to know what level your Free T4 is and your Free T3 - and also, did you test positive for antibodies in your blood. Your Free T4 needs to be in the quartile of the reference range as should your Free T3. > > Luv - Sheila > > > > > afternoon all; what do all you very clever folk know about a > suppressed tsh. mine was .61 on my last blood test , most of what i > have read on this site is about an elevated tsh., i am just gathering > ammo for my next appointment ! regards jane > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1414 - Release Date: 04/05/2008 12:31 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 6, 2008 Report Share Posted May 6, 2008 Apologies - yes, I did mean to say the upper fourth. Brain stopped functioning I think. luv - Sheila Hi Sheila,When you say:>Your Free T4 needs to be in the quartile of the reference range as >should your Free T3.which quartile do you mean - is it upper or 4th? .. No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.9/1417 - Release Date: 06/05/2008 08:07 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 2008 Report Share Posted May 7, 2008 hi there Jane, this is taken from the AACE 2002 thyroid guidelines,endocrine practice (6) and I quote- patients with chronic thyroiditis may have normal results of thyroid function tests, INCLUDING THE SENSITIVE TSH.in other words it dos not matter where your hormones are in range or out of range,it matters if you have any antibodies to thyroid peroxidase. if this test comes backin range but over 10 then you have hashimoto`s disease.and thyroid auto antibodies are positive in 95% of patients with autoimmune thyroiditis.some patients will not have them in the blood test, but have them in the thyroid itself. I hope this explains things a bit better, it took me a while to get this fact out of my head.every one talks about this test being an accurate measure, but if you have conversion problems or even binding by antibodies to T4 or the TSH hormone,this will them give a wrong result. there are many reasons why the test dos not show what is going on in ones body. angel. Sent from . A Smarter Email. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 10, 2008 Report Share Posted May 10, 2008 hi angel, thank you - that helps alot, i am having an antibodies test amongst others at the end of the month. it's a sad state that one hopes for an abnormal result in order to justify treatment ! at the moment all my lab results are within " normal limits " but the gp is actually treating the symptoms. kind regards jane > > hi there Jane, this is taken from the AACE 2002 thyroid guidelines, > endocrine practice (6) and I quote- patients with chronic thyroiditis may have normal results of thyroid function tests, INCLUDING THE SENSITIVE TSH. > in other words it dos not matter where your hormones are in range or out of range, > it matters if you have any antibodies to thyroid peroxidase. if this test comes back > in range but over 10 then you have hashimoto`s disease. > and thyroid auto antibodies are positive in 95% of patients with autoimmune thyroiditis. > some patients will not have them in the blood test, but have them in the thyroid itself. I hope this explains things a bit better, it took me a while to get this fact out of my head.every one talks about this test being an accurate measure, but if you have conversion problems or even binding by antibodies to T4 or the TSH hormone, > this will them give a wrong result. there are many reasons why the test dos not show what is going on in ones body. angel. > > > --------------------------------- > Sent from . > A Smarter Email. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2008 Report Share Posted May 12, 2008 Hi Jane, Before we can comment we need to know if you are on any treatment and what your symptoms are- this is just a bit too brief. Subject: suppressed tsh afternoon all; what do all you very clever folk know about a suppressed tsh. mine was .61 on my last blood test , most of what i have read on this site is about an elevated tsh., i am just gathering ammo for my next appointment ! regards jane ------------------------------------ Messages are not a substitute for professional medical advice. Always consult with a suitably qualified practitioner before changing medication. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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