Re: Effects of T3 on weight?

July 23, 2004

you are actually on an undetectable amount of T3 i.e. nothing. I don't

even know what 2-3mg of thyroid extract is, do you mean a glandular like

Standard Process makes? Glandulars have no active thyroid hormones in

them. I think you would benefit from a med with T3 in it, like thyrolar or

Armour. I think you are over exercising and undereating. Both would hurt

your metabolism.

Gracia

> Sorry for the " gee, I can't lose weight " post. I know there are

> probably a ton of them, but I'm kind of curious as to the effects of

> T3 on weight.

>

> I was started on a low dose of Synthroid (25 mcg) and T3 (from

> thyroid extract; I don't know the amount of T3 the 2-3 mg. of extract

> yields) when I complained of major hypothyroid symptoms, including

> inappropriate weight gain.

>

> I started the Synthroid first and felt better almost immediately. I

> started the T3 a week later and didn't notice much. Over the next 5

> weeks, I lost 10-12 pounds and was close to my pre-thyroid weight

> (yay!). Then, after 6 weeks of thyroid treatment, I started to feel

> some symptoms returning, and I re-gained all of the weight I'd lost,

> and a few extra pounds, within the next 6 weeks.

>

> During the next visit to my endo 3 weeks ago, I told him, and he

> decreased the thyroid extract from 3 mg to 2 mg; if I understood him

> correctly, the idea is that when the body adjusts to different

> hormone levels, it wants less of some of them (and if it doesn't get

> that, symptoms can return). So, I'm on less T3, and I feel OK but

> I'm continuing to gain weight. I get lots of exercise (I run an

> average of 7.5 miles per day) and try to eat moderately (1400-1500

> calories per day) but that combination is causing me to gain 1-3

> pounds a week.

>

> TSH is now .62 (.3-3) and total(?) T4 is 10.5 (don't know lower range

> but I think the upper is 11-12). Doc seems happy with the hormone

> levels and my response to the thyroid meds. He's not concerned with

> the weight gain (he says it, in his experience, can accompany proper

> treatment) but I really don't understand it! My metabolism's

> obviously pretty dead but I can't figure out if I need more or less

> T4 or T3 (or nothing different--maybe it's not my thyroid now) or

> just to eat differently, or just give up eating, which I'm afraid to

> do for fear of completely stopping my metabolism.

>

> So, does anyone out there know which hormones, and how adjusting

> them, affects metabolism? Is T4 the biggie? Does T3, in people's

> experience, do much? I know it's debated by the medical community

> but I was wondering what experience people had with it.

>

> Thanks so much,

> Alison (confused and rapidly outgrowing her larger wardrobe)

>

July 23, 2004

>

> you are actually on an undetectable amount of T3 i.e. nothing. I

don't

> even know what 2-3mg of thyroid extract is, do you mean a glandular

like

> Standard Process makes? Glandulars have no active thyroid

hormones in

> them. I think you would benefit from a med with T3 in it, like

thyrolar or

> Armour. I think you are over exercising and undereating. Both

would hurt

> your metabolism.

> Gracia

I'm on very low doses of both T4 and T3; as far as the amount of T3

in the " thyroid extract " , I'm still not sure quite what it is, but my

doctor has it compounded by a local pharmacy, and this is what I

found on his website:

" The average dose in my practice is about 1.2 mcg. daily and for best

results, T4 and T3 should be in approximately a 98-2 ratio. Again,

thyroid replacement therapy is physiologic replacement, not

pharmacologic treatment. Hence, when you give much more than the

physiologic dose, you do not get increased benefit, in fact you feel

just as poorly as you did below the optimum point. "

So, I'm on very little of both hormones. I really DO feel better (no

more brain fog!) but it's so little hormone that I probably can't

attribute a whole lot of physical changes to it. I was just hoping

for an answer.

Thanks for your reply and the suggestion. A few people have hinted

at overtraining, and though I can't figure out why it'd suddenly

backfire on me, I'm willing to exchange a few running days for

weights (or rest) to see if that works. I'm of course willing to eat

more too but I probably shouldn't try both approaches at once!

-Alison

July 23, 2004

well this is a philosophy which I disagree with. I think symptoms should

be treated, not tests. I also think you could safely reduce exercise and

increase calories. Look at Swarzbein Principle about this.

Gracia

> " The average dose in my practice is about 1.2 mcg. daily and for best

> results, T4 and T3 should be in approximately a 98-2 ratio. Again,

> thyroid replacement therapy is physiologic replacement, not

> pharmacologic treatment. Hence, when you give much more than the

> physiologic dose, you do not get increased benefit, in fact you feel

> just as poorly as you did below the optimum point. "

>

> So, I'm on very little of both hormones. I really DO feel better (no

> more brain fog!) but it's so little hormone that I probably can't

> attribute a whole lot of physical changes to it. I was just hoping

> for an answer.

>

> Thanks for your reply and the suggestion. A few people have hinted

> at overtraining, and though I can't figure out why it'd suddenly

> backfire on me, I'm willing to exchange a few running days for

> weights (or rest) to see if that works. I'm of course willing to eat

> more too but I probably shouldn't try both approaches at once!

>

> -Alison

>

July 26, 2004

I think you need a new doctor. Weight gain at that rate eating and

exercising the way you are doing is NOT normal and will never be. A

doctor that ignores symptoms is a bad sign.

I think that what happened to you is what happens to a lot of people: we

improve when we start on low dose thyroid meds, then the little hormone

our bodies were producing naturally is reduced (of course, we are

supplementing it) and symptoms get worse. The proper medical treatment

then is to slowly RAISE meds until you reach your thyroid meds, not

reduce them so you can feel even worse!

Jan

alison_lea wrote:

>Sorry for the " gee, I can't lose weight " post. I know there are

>probably a ton of them, but I'm kind of curious as to the effects of

>T3 on weight.

>

>I was started on a low dose of Synthroid (25 mcg) and T3 (from

>thyroid extract; I don't know the amount of T3 the 2-3 mg. of extract

>yields) when I complained of major hypothyroid symptoms, including

>inappropriate weight gain.

>

>I started the Synthroid first and felt better almost immediately. I

>started the T3 a week later and didn't notice much. Over the next 5

>weeks, I lost 10-12 pounds and was close to my pre-thyroid weight

>(yay!). Then, after 6 weeks of thyroid treatment, I started to feel

>some symptoms returning, and I re-gained all of the weight I'd lost,

>and a few extra pounds, within the next 6 weeks.

>

>During the next visit to my endo 3 weeks ago, I told him, and he

>decreased the thyroid extract from 3 mg to 2 mg; if I understood him

>correctly, the idea is that when the body adjusts to different

>hormone levels, it wants less of some of them (and if it doesn't get

>that, symptoms can return). So, I'm on less T3, and I feel OK but

>I'm continuing to gain weight. I get lots of exercise (I run an

>average of 7.5 miles per day) and try to eat moderately (1400-1500

>calories per day) but that combination is causing me to gain 1-3

>pounds a week.

>

>TSH is now .62 (.3-3) and total(?) T4 is 10.5 (don't know lower range

>but I think the upper is 11-12). Doc seems happy with the hormone

>levels and my response to the thyroid meds. He's not concerned with

>the weight gain (he says it, in his experience, can accompany proper

>treatment) but I really don't understand it! My metabolism's

>obviously pretty dead but I can't figure out if I need more or less

>T4 or T3 (or nothing different--maybe it's not my thyroid now) or

>just to eat differently, or just give up eating, which I'm afraid to

>do for fear of completely stopping my metabolism.

>

>So, does anyone out there know which hormones, and how adjusting

>them, affects metabolism? Is T4 the biggie? Does T3, in people's

>experience, do much? I know it's debated by the medical community

>but I was wondering what experience people had with it.

>

>Thanks so much,

>Alison (confused and rapidly outgrowing her larger wardrobe)

>

July 26, 2004

From all I've read, I don't like your doctor's theory of the 98-2% percent.

The reason is: if a person is a good converter of T4 into T3, then no T3

is needed.

If a person is a poor converter, he/she will need at least the amount of

T3 a normal thyroid makes, which is around 20%.

2% is useless for a good converter, and not enough at all for a poor

converter.

Also this whole " physiological dosage " thing he is talking about, does

he believe in weaning people off meds completely eventually?

Jan

alison_lea wrote:

>

>I'm on very low doses of both T4 and T3; as far as the amount of T3

>in the " thyroid extract " , I'm still not sure quite what it is, but my

>doctor has it compounded by a local pharmacy, and this is what I

>found on his website:

>

> " The average dose in my practice is about 1.2 mcg. daily and for best

>results, T4 and T3 should be in approximately a 98-2 ratio. Again,

>thyroid replacement therapy is physiologic replacement, not

>pharmacologic treatment. Hence, when you give much more than the

>physiologic dose, you do not get increased benefit, in fact you feel

>just as poorly as you did below the optimum point. "

>

>So, I'm on very little of both hormones. I really DO feel better (no

>more brain fog!) but it's so little hormone that I probably can't

>attribute a whole lot of physical changes to it. I was just hoping

>for an answer.

>

>Thanks for your reply and the suggestion. A few people have hinted

>at overtraining, and though I can't figure out why it'd suddenly

>backfire on me, I'm willing to exchange a few running days for

>weights (or rest) to see if that works. I'm of course willing to eat

>more too but I probably shouldn't try both approaches at once!

>

>-Alison

>

July 26, 2004

> From all I've read, I don't like your doctor's theory of the 98-2%

percent.

>

> The reason is: if a person is a good converter of T4 into T3, then

no T3

> is needed.

>

> If a person is a poor converter, he/she will need at least the

amount of

> T3 a normal thyroid makes, which is around 20%.

>

> 2% is useless for a good converter, and not enough at all for a

poor

> converter.

I have no idea how he arrives at the 98%/2% ratio. I plan on asking

him for a more detailed explanation (or re-reading his book--I think

he had a technical explanation in there, and if I find it, I'll post

it so it can be debated and I can learn something). It doesn't make

sense to ME, but that doesn't mean a whole lot because I'm still

somewhat new to the world of thyroid issues. Truth be told, I

haven't questioned him a whole lot because he's one of the only endos

who would even see and treat me (though I had tons of symptoms and an

extensive family history of hypothyroidism, I also had a " normal "

TSH, but he treats based on symptoms over lab values). So, I'm

willing to go along with his treatment for awhile since I do feel so

much better (just a bit chubbier, but perhaps it's my own fault).

I did think it was odd that he suspected I converted T4->T3 poorly

and then lowered the T3, but I'll give it awhile to see if it makes a

difference.

> Also this whole " physiological dosage " thing he is talking about,

does

> he believe in weaning people off meds completely eventually?

He doesn't seem to (at least he hasn't mentioned it in my two

visits). Perhaps his 98%/2% thing is something he arrived at through

experimentation. I do intend to find out the reasoning

this " physiological dosage " though.

-Alison, who is taking the advice to calm down with the diet and

exercise and is enjoying it and feeling much better (duh!)

July 26, 2004

I really think it's b/c T3 " pushes " the adrenals and docs ignore adrenals

i.e. don't know how to treat. Schwarzbein book says Armour thyroid raises

insulin levels!

Gracia

>

> > From all I've read, I don't like your doctor's theory of the 98-2%

> percent.

> >

> > The reason is: if a person is a good converter of T4 into T3, then

> no T3

> > is needed.

> >

> > If a person is a poor converter, he/she will need at least the

> amount of

> > T3 a normal thyroid makes, which is around 20%.

> >

> > 2% is useless for a good converter, and not enough at all for a

> poor

> > converter.

>

> I have no idea how he arrives at the 98%/2% ratio. I plan on asking

> him for a more detailed explanation (or re-reading his book--I think

> he had a technical explanation in there, and if I find it, I'll post

> it so it can be debated and I can learn something). It doesn't make

> sense to ME, but that doesn't mean a whole lot because I'm still

> somewhat new to the world of thyroid issues. Truth be told, I

> haven't questioned him a whole lot because he's one of the only endos

> who would even see and treat me (though I had tons of symptoms and an

> extensive family history of hypothyroidism, I also had a " normal "

> TSH, but he treats based on symptoms over lab values). So, I'm

> willing to go along with his treatment for awhile since I do feel so

> much better (just a bit chubbier, but perhaps it's my own fault).

> I did think it was odd that he suspected I converted T4->T3 poorly

> and then lowered the T3, but I'll give it awhile to see if it makes a

> difference.

>

> > Also this whole " physiological dosage " thing he is talking about,

> does

> > he believe in weaning people off meds completely eventually?

>

> He doesn't seem to (at least he hasn't mentioned it in my two

> visits). Perhaps his 98%/2% thing is something he arrived at through

> experimentation. I do intend to find out the reasoning

> this " physiological dosage " though.

>

> -Alison, who is taking the advice to calm down with the diet and

> exercise and is enjoying it and feeling much better (duh!)

>

July 26, 2004

Gracia,

Yes, Schwarzbein is AGAINST using Armour thyroid. I think a lot of her advice

make sense, but not all of it.

Love,

Pamela

Gracia <circe@...> wrote: