Adrenal vs thyroid

September 27, 1999

In a message dated 09/27/1999 06:45:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

sstasko@... writes:

<< From: " sstasko " <sstasko@...>

Hi Ira!

How would an adrenal insufficiency be manifested vs hypothyroidism?

Sheila

>>

Hi, Sheila,

That is what I am trying to find out. My wife went to a holistic doctor

about 11 years ago, the same doctor who diagnosed me as being hypothyroid,

and he diagnosed her as having adrenal insufficiency. Thyroid medication is

contraindicated for certain kinds of adrenal problems, but my wife would

occasionally take one of my Armour thyroid, and it seemed to help her a lot.

There is a product called Miladregen made by Laboratories which is a

nutritional supplement made especially for adrenal insufficiency.

Ira

September 28, 1999

For a do it yourself test for possible adrenal insufficiency try the

" Postural Blood Pressure Test " . Take your blood pressure lying down, sitting

up, and standing. There should be a 14 point rise in BP. If the upper number

does not rise 14 points then you could have adrenal insufficiency. This is

called postural hypotension. Another test is the Adrenal Stress Index.

Dennis Lipter

sstasko wrote:

> From: " sstasko " <sstasko@...>

>

> Hi Ira!

>

> How would an adrenal insufficiency be manifested vs hypothyroidism?

>

> Sheila

>

> > _

>

> Subscription URL: /subscribe.cgi/hypothyroidism

>

> Send blank message to this e-mail address if you want to:

>

> TO UNSUBSCRIBE !!!!!!!!! :

>

> hypothyroidism-unsubscribeonelist

>

> To change status from normal to digest:

> hypothyroidism-digestonelist

>

> To change status from digest to normal:

> hypothyroidism-normalonelist

>

> To subscribe:

> hypothyroidism-subscribeonelist

>

September 29, 1999

Dear Ira:

Adrenal fatigue is generally a companion to thyroid dysfunction.

No, you don't address one to get to the other, you address both.

Generally,licorice will solve many adrenal stress problems. I make up an

adrenal stress formula. It consists of gotu kola, withania, ginkgo,

skullcap, licorice, ginger and ginseng. It helps restore adrenal function

while it opens up the circulation.

Adrenal stress comes largely from not being totally here in the present.

When all our concentration and energy is focused in being here now and not

dallying in the past nor living in the future, then we can be decisive and

efficient in the present. That doesn't take adrenal hormones. Fear, anxiety,

stress come from undervaluing the self and not maximizing the now. For,

think about it, if a person is not totally present, observing, interacting

with the now moment, then its lost forever. And what else do we have but

NOW??

best wishes,

Earl

Re: adrenal vs thyroid

From: IRAMFINE@...

In a message dated 09/27/1999 06:45:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

sstasko@... writes:

<< From: " sstasko " <sstasko@...>

Hi Ira!

How would an adrenal insufficiency be manifested vs hypothyroidism?

Sheila

>>

Hi, Sheila,

That is what I am trying to find out. My wife went to a holistic doctor

about 11 years ago, the same doctor who diagnosed me as being hypothyroid,

and he diagnosed her as having adrenal insufficiency. Thyroid medication is

contraindicated for certain kinds of adrenal problems, but my wife would

occasionally take one of my Armour thyroid, and it seemed to help her a lot.

There is a product called Miladregen made by Laboratories which is a

nutritional supplement made especially for adrenal insufficiency.

Ira

_

Subscription URL: /subscribe.cgi/hypothyroidism

Send blank message to this e-mail address if you want to:

TO UNSUBSCRIBE !!!!!!!!! :

hypothyroidism-unsubscribeonelist

To change status from normal to digest:

hypothyroidism-digestonelist

To change status from digest to normal:

hypothyroidism-normalonelist

To subscribe:

hypothyroidism-subscribeonelist

September 29, 1999

Hi Sheila:

Hypothyroid and adrenal fatigue both have fatigue as prime symptoms. Why

differentiate?

Solve both. For thyroid dysfunction see. www.thyrodine.com for adrenal

fatigue, get some good licorice at a health food store. Siberian ginseng

also helps.

There is a natural way to overcome all problems,

best wishes

Earl

adrenal vs thyroid

From: " sstasko " <sstasko@...>

Hi Ira!

How would an adrenal insufficiency be manifested vs hypothyroidism?

Sheila

_

Subscription URL: /subscribe.cgi/hypothyroidism

Send blank message to this e-mail address if you want to:

TO UNSUBSCRIBE !!!!!!!!! :

hypothyroidism-unsubscribeonelist

To change status from normal to digest:

hypothyroidism-digestonelist

To change status from digest to normal:

hypothyroidism-normalonelist

To subscribe:

hypothyroidism-subscribeonelist

September 29, 1999

I completely agree with Dr. Conroy's statement about thyroid blood tests not

being accurate. That has been my experience for several years.

How do I find out if I also have an adrenal problem in addition to the

thyroid? I also have a lot of symptoms of 's syndrome, on top of the

fact I have been diagnosed with graves and had RAI? I really want to do

some research, and don't trust regular doctors. In fact unless I am

unconscious I won't go back to one.

>From: " Earl Conroy " <waiorama@...>

>Reply-hypothyroidismonelist

><hypothyroidismonelist>

>Subject: RE: adrenal vs thyroid

>Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:18:38 +1200

>

>From: " Earl Conroy " <waiorama@...>

>

>Hi Sheila:

>Hypothyroid and adrenal fatigue both have fatigue as prime symptoms. Why

>differentiate?

>Solve both. For thyroid dysfunction see. www.thyrodine.com for adrenal

>fatigue, get some good licorice at a health food store. Siberian ginseng

>also helps.

>There is a natural way to overcome all problems,

>best wishes

>Earl

>

> adrenal vs thyroid

>

>From: " sstasko " <sstasko@...>

>

>Hi Ira!

>

>How would an adrenal insufficiency be manifested vs hypothyroidism?

>

>Sheila

>

>_

>

>Subscription URL: /subscribe.cgi/hypothyroidism

>

>Send blank message to this e-mail address if you want to:

>

> TO UNSUBSCRIBE !!!!!!!!! :

>

> hypothyroidism-unsubscribeonelist

>

>To change status from normal to digest:

> hypothyroidism-digestonelist

>

>To change status from digest to normal:

> hypothyroidism-normalonelist

>

>To subscribe:

> hypothyroidism-subscribeonelist

>

August 2, 2005

To check for adrenal exhaustion you can have a Cortisol test or better still

ACTH done.

Puneet

fionahorse2000 <fionap@...> wrote:

Phew this is getting muddled ! So am I best off treating my adrenals

for exhaustion, then trying natural stuff for my thyroid, before moving

on to the pharmaceutical stuff my doc will likely prescribe ?

I'm heartily sick of being tired and confused by what actually causes

me to feel so lousy....seems it can be thyroid, auto immune disease,

adrenals, or yet another nasty side effect of having had silicone

breast implants for ten years...or a combo of the whole happy lt !

Whaaa !!!

Fiona

__________________________________________________

August 3, 2005

Thanks for all the info Puneet !

Fiona

Re: Adrenal vs thyroid

To check for adrenal exhaustion you can have a Cortisol test or better still

ACTH done.

Puneet

fionahorse2000 <fionap@...> wrote:

Phew this is getting muddled ! So am I best off treating my adrenals

for exhaustion, then trying natural stuff for my thyroid, before moving

on to the pharmaceutical stuff my doc will likely prescribe ?

I'm heartily sick of being tired and confused by what actually causes

me to feel so lousy....seems it can be thyroid, auto immune disease,

adrenals, or yet another nasty side effect of having had silicone

breast implants for ten years...or a combo of the whole happy lt !

Whaaa !!!

Fiona

__________________________________________________

August 3, 2005

actually these tests are very poor. Adrenals have to be about 90% gone for

these tests to show any problems.

Gracia

> To check for adrenal exhaustion you can have a Cortisol test or better

still ACTH done.

>

> Puneet

>

> fionahorse2000 <fionap@...> wrote:

> Phew this is getting muddled ! So am I best off treating my adrenals

> for exhaustion, then trying natural stuff for my thyroid, before moving

> on to the pharmaceutical stuff my doc will likely prescribe ?

> I'm heartily sick of being tired and confused by what actually causes

> me to feel so lousy....seems it can be thyroid, auto immune disease,

> adrenals, or yet another nasty side effect of having had silicone

> breast implants for ten years...or a combo of the whole happy lt !

> Whaaa !!!

>

> Fiona

>

> __________________________________________________

>

August 4, 2005

Hi everyone,

Thank you all for you previous input.

How come I've been taking Synthroid for 8 wks. Three weeks ago my THS was 4.53

and I have all these symptoms:

Severe fatigue, severe depression, modest weight gain, excessive sleepiness, dry

hair, dry skin, severe decreased concentration, swelling of legs, and a morning

temperature of 95.6.

Thanks,

Cecilia

---------------------------------

Acesso Grátis: Internet rápida e grátis. Instale o discador agora!

August 4, 2005

the only peers I am interested in reviewing my problems are those that

know what they are talking about - most doctors don't - that is why we

have these forums - to have an alternative to the dreadful world of

objective science - here subjectivity does count! IMO.

The tests are woefully inadequate - clinical symptoms are the way to go

and a good doctor knows this.

Kerry

Re: Adrenal vs thyroid

>

>actually these tests are very poor. Adrenals have to be about 90%

gone for

>these tests to show any problems.

>Gracia

>

>>To check for adrenal exhaustion you can have a Cortisol test or better

>>

>still ACTH done.

>

>>Puneet

>>

>>fionahorse2000 <fionap@...> wrote:

>>Phew this is getting muddled ! So am I best off treating my adrenals

>>for exhaustion, then trying natural stuff for my thyroid, before

moving

>>on to the pharmaceutical stuff my doc will likely prescribe ?

>>I'm heartily sick of being tired and confused by what actually causes

>>me to feel so lousy....seems it can be thyroid, auto immune disease,

>>adrenals, or yet another nasty side effect of having had silicone

>>breast implants for ten years...or a combo of the whole happy lt !

>>Whaaa !!!

>>

>>Fiona

>>

>

----------

No virus found in this outgoing message.

Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.

Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.0/63 - Release Date: 8/3/2005

August 4, 2005

I have also heard about this but am not too sure as none of the doctos seem to

agree on this.The Cortisol Serum test done in the morning (8.00-9.00 a.m) is

considered quite accurate.

But if you really wanna be sure then there is a test called insulin tolerance

test or an ILT. During this test, they inject you with insulin and

intentionally drop your glucose level. After that,they take blood samples every

30 minutes and check your cortisol and growth hormone levels. The body's

natural response to a severe drop in glucose is to make more cortisol.

Therefore, if your levels do not rise you definitely have adrenal insufficiency.

If you do get this test done make sure the medical staff doing this test is

proficient in giving it and interpreting the results. This test can be

dangerous because they will drop your glucose to approximately 40 or a little

below and then bring you out of it with a glucose I.V. I hear that in the U.S

MD in Houston, Texas are

well versed in how to give this test and its interpretation.

Puneet

Gracia <circe@...> wrote:

actually these tests are very poor. Adrenals have to be about 90% gone for

these tests to show any problems.

Gracia

> To check for adrenal exhaustion you can have a Cortisol test or better

still ACTH done.

>

> Puneet

>

> fionahorse2000 <fionap@...> wrote:

> Phew this is getting muddled ! So am I best off treating my adrenals

> for exhaustion, then trying natural stuff for my thyroid, before moving

> on to the pharmaceutical stuff my doc will likely prescribe ?

> I'm heartily sick of being tired and confused by what actually causes

> me to feel so lousy....seems it can be thyroid, auto immune disease,

> adrenals, or yet another nasty side effect of having had silicone

> breast implants for ten years...or a combo of the whole happy lt !

> Whaaa !!!

>

> Fiona

>

__________________________________________________

August 5, 2005

HI - I couldn't agree more...probably just semantics -

subjective/objective - whatever works is what is best.

I don't think that any of us would self medicate based on someone

else's advice.....not so in my case at least - I self medicated because

I couldn't find an intelligent doc - now I have one but it was six years

too late. I would never discourage anyone from self medicating with

physiologic doses of natural hormones IF they do their own research and

IF they can't get help elsewhere....we are all responsible for ourselves

and our own health....I have a lot of compassion for those who are just

left for dead by the medical profession. I have a family full of medical

professionals and believe me they have little to no understanding of my

illness nor do they particularly want to find out....its sad really.

My experience with self medicating has been mixed - I have never had any

bad results in terms of dangerous side effects but I have not always

gained the improvement I expected either. I actually do better on

synthetic T4 and T3 than I do on Armour, I did well on low dose

Hydrocortisone and I am very happy with the improvements I have had

using progesterone. My doctor is just about to trial me on pregnenolone

to see if that will help my adrenals heal faster. I also have IV

vitamins every two weeks or so which keep me from being so exhausted. I

had remarkable results using T3 to cure my chronic depression and still

after two years I do not get depressed.

On the down side I still have relapses of CFS for no obvious reason and

these can last from a week to months and seem entirely separate from my

thyroid function. So although not everything has worked as well as I

had hoped I am still very glad I had the courage to try some different

therapies and to educate myself with regard to natural hormones.

If anyone out there has CFS or fibromyalgia as well and would like to

offer any advice or success stories I would love to hear from you.

Anyway good luck to you - I hope you are feeling better

Kerry

Adrenal vs thyroid

>

>I didn't know that. Is it well documented, say, in peer reviewed

>literature?

>

--

No virus found in this outgoing message.

Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.

Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.1/64 - Release Date: 8/4/2005

August 5, 2005

Yeah this is what hapopens to most of us. We spend years thinking we have

all kinds of diseases, when we really have untreated hypothyroidiism.

So how are all those tests and $ynthroid working out for you? Give me a doc

with clinical skills anyday.

Gracia

>

> I had no hypo symptoms that could not be attributed to hundreds of other

> illnesses [or age], until the TSH tests showed abnormal. I've had

> absolutely no symptomatic response to having the TSH brought within

> normal [high] range; but we have increased the Synthroid to bring it

> closer to the norm.

>

--

No virus found in this outgoing message.

Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.

Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.1/64 - Release Date: 8/4/2005

August 6, 2005

Hi ,

I was just curious why are you taking synthroid if you have no symptoms?

Did I miss something in your earlier posts? (probably - my mind is like

a sieve these days)

Kerry

Re: Adrenal vs thyroid Yeah this is what

hapopens to most of us. We spend years thinking we have all kinds of

diseases, when we really have untreated hypothyroidiism. So how are all

those tests and $ynthroid working out for you? Give me a doc with

clinical skills anyday. Gracia

>>

>> I had no hypo symptoms that could not be attributed to hundreds of

other

>> illnesses [or age], until the TSH tests showed abnormal. I've had

>> absolutely no symptomatic response to having the TSH brought within

>> normal [high] range; but we have increased the Synthroid to bring it

>> closer to the norm.

>

--

No virus found in this outgoing message.

Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.

Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.1/64 - Release Date: 8/4/2005

August 6, 2005

Kerry,

As you may remember, I was self-medicating since May of last year. My

Dr. wouldn't believe I was hypoT, but I knew I had to be. I was in very

bad shape, and Fibromyalgia was part of that. As I had access to T4, I

started taking that, started myself out on 100 mcg, went up to 125 mcg

a few weeks later. Six weeks after I started T4, I was walking again,

without a cane. I even was able to carry groceries up our front steps

for a couple of weeks. Prior to that, I had not been able to walk

around a grocery store for the past year because of the pain, and I was

pretty well housebound. Beside that, CFS is nothing I am concerned

about, especally as I have lived with it all my life. That was my

little bit of success, those couple of weeks. About 2 1/2 month after

starting T4, the pain started to come back. So I got some Armour. That

helped somewhat. But I have not been as pain-free in the past year, as

I was six weeks after starting medication. I still walk with a cane, I

rarely go out, and if I do, it's with my husband who looks after me. I

have a new thyroid doctor, who finally told me (and will have told my

own GP) that there is no doubt I am hypoT. Within the next week I will

be having more blood tests, which should give my new doc an indication

that the reason I still have this pain, is the fact that my adrenal

function is pretty well non-existent. I have been taking 25 mg DHEA and

adrenal glandulars for a few months. But it's my belief that's not

enough. I am counting on my new thyroid doctor giving me medication for

my adrenals. My advice to anybody with fibro, is to do what you can to

find a really good doctor who will give you what you need to get well

again. And if I had not found my new doc, I would have gone ahead and

ordered off the web--just as I did for my dessicated. Otherwise, I

would have died, waiting for some doctor to discover what is wrong with

me-- something no doctor did in the past forty years I have suffered

with this. It's my life, and I want it back, and I will do whatever I

have to, to get rid of the pain. On Armour, or even on T4, I won't now

die. But I am now determined to get some quality of life back. If

people find the fibro pain doesn't go away on the proper dosage of

thyroid medication, the secondary problem of adrenals probably needs to

be addressed. I'll let you all know what transpires.

gail

> If anyone out there has CFS or fibromyalgia as well and would like to

> offer any advice or success stories I would love to hear from you.

>

> Anyway good luck to you - I hope you are feeling better

>

> Kerry

>

August 6, 2005

,

You wrote:

> ... most of my symptoms would probably indicate hyper, rather than

> hypo, thyroidism. If I went strictly by symptoms I'd probably be taking

> something to INCREASE my TSH; a recipe for disaster. ...

If that is the case you may have some other malfunction than thyroiditis,

a pituitary problem for example. A lab error is another, although fairly remote,

possibility. At any rate, it is unusual for TSH to be high with only

hyperT symptoms. Taking replace thyroid hormones could actually be dangerous

under those circumstances. I hope your physician is aware of your symptoms

and considering another line of investigation.

Chuck

August 7, 2005

This is absolutely true, and I think with Kerry, she will need the sex

hormones as well, b/c of hysterectomy. Well I haven't had a hysterectomy

and I still need every adrenal hormone. I love cortef, estrogen,

progesterone, DHEA, testosterone! and oh yeah Armour thyroid. It's a lot

of stuff but I would be dead without it.

Gracia

On Armour, or even on T4, I won't now

> die. But I am now determined to get some quality of life back. If

> people find the fibro pain doesn't go away on the proper dosage of

> thyroid medication, the secondary problem of adrenals probably needs to

> be addressed. I'll let you all know what transpires.

> gail

>

> > If anyone out there has CFS or fibromyalgia as well and would like to

> > offer any advice or success stories I would love to hear from you.

> >

> > Anyway good luck to you - I hope you are feeling better

> >

> > Kerry

> >

>

August 7, 2005

I was untreated for 30 years after a partial thyroidectomy. My whole life I

have been hypothyroid, so surgery added insult to injury. I was never able

to have a life until I got meds at age 51. I borrowed them b/c my TSH is

very low, one something. My symptoms on the other hand were hypo/hyper

(which is adrenal). My symptoms were certainly much less ambiguous than a

test, but I never found a doc who had the clinical skills to see what I was

suffering from. Well I did find one brilliant one, but I didn't go back to

him.

So please, spare me the lecture. Are you really so naiive that you believe

all testing is accurate? Or that you can only have a disease if the testing

says you do?

Gracia

> I think we all desire a doctor with good clinical skills, and some of

> those skills for me include knowing what tests to run and how to

> interpret the results. Symptoms are another indicator; but they're no

> doubt often more ambiguous than test results.

>

> Message: 15 Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2005 23:14:27 -0400 From: " Gracia "

> <circe@...> Subject: Re: Adrenal vs thyroid Yeah this is what

> hapopens to most of us. We spend years thinking we have all kinds of

> diseases, when we really have untreated hypothyroidiism. So how are all

> those tests and $ynthroid working out for you? Give me a doc with

> clinical skills anyday. Gracia

>

> >>

> >> I had no hypo symptoms that could not be attributed to hundreds of

other

> >> illnesses [or age], until the TSH tests showed abnormal. I've had

> >> absolutely no symptomatic response to having the TSH brought within

> >> normal [high] range; but we have increased the Synthroid to bring it

> >> closer to the norm.

> >

>

> --

> No virus found in this outgoing message.

> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.

> Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.1/64 - Release Date: 8/4/2005

>

August 7, 2005

Gracia,

My hormone levels fluctuate tremendously from one month to the next....how does

one know how much to take to cope with these fluctuations ? Blood tests every

month ??? I read somewhere that saliva tests are more accurate for hormones...is

this true ?

Fiona

Re: Re: Adrenal vs thyroid

This is absolutely true, and I think with Kerry, she will need the sex

hormones as well, b/c of hysterectomy. Well I haven't had a hysterectomy

and I still need every adrenal hormone. I love cortef, estrogen,

progesterone, DHEA, testosterone! and oh yeah Armour thyroid. It's a lot

of stuff but I would be dead without it.

Gracia

On Armour, or even on T4, I won't now

> die. But I am now determined to get some quality of life back. If

> people find the fibro pain doesn't go away on the proper dosage of

> thyroid medication, the secondary problem of adrenals probably needs to

> be addressed. I'll let you all know what transpires.

> gail

>

> > If anyone out there has CFS or fibromyalgia as well and would like to

> > offer any advice or success stories I would love to hear from you.

> >

> > Anyway good luck to you - I hope you are feeling better

> >

> > Kerry

> >

>

August 7, 2005

,

You wrote:

> ... I'm trying to be on the alert for any symptomatic changes with the

Synthroid.

> The only thing I've noticed is that my allergic rhynitus [sp?] {hay fever}

> symptoms have increased in the past 3 or 4 weeks; don't know if there's any

> connection.

I don't believe this is a strong indicator, but any increased allergic response

tends

to go with hypoT.

>

> In order to rule out a pituitary problem what would be the normal course of

> action? What tests should I suggest to my doctor?

> Are there any symptoms to watch out for? ...

You said you you had hyper symptoms. Which ones? Racing heartbeat, for example?

For tests to rule out the pituitary, you need an endo, although I thought we had

at

least of couple of people on this list who had gone down that road. The

signature

indications would be high values for TSH, T4 and T3 simultaneously. I thought

that is

what you reported having.

Chuck

August 7, 2005

hi Gail,

Thank you for writing to me...I have had similar experiences with

hormones a few times now - for the first few weeks I feel fantastic then

it is back to business as usual - I get quite disheartened when it

happens again and again. so far this has been the case with T3, T4,

Hydrocortisone, and progesterone and Armour - the benefits just don't

seem to last. I thought I had treated my adrenals sufficiently - 20mg HC

for nine months but maybe they are still weak. I was getting pretty

puffy on the HC and my doc doesn't like me taking it so I stopped.

I wonder why we get this short term relief? Do you think low adrenals

explains it enough?