Guest guest Posted June 30, 2004 Report Share Posted June 30, 2004 OK, now I am worried. That's too much, eh... I did take 1/4 of a 300 mcg dog pill for the first two weeks (75 mcg approx), then for the next four weeks the 100 mcg of Eltroxin (GlaxoKline) which is a Canadian company I think. But I have to say, I don't think I've had any adverse reactions-- well, weepines for the first 3 or 4 weeks, and a couple of days last week I felt hot. So I guess I'm OK on this dose. I think my heart is OK. I won't up it though.... I won't be seeing my Dr. until Aug 9th and I won't ever go back to the new young Dr. who informed me I am NOT hypothyroid, and he would NOT order me any testing, and if I wanted it, I would have to pay for it and it would cost me 100's of $'s. Yes, he was a very opinionated young man. But I just can't die right now, as my husband doesn't get back home for three days yet. I have 13 dogs to look after by myself until then, plus a boarder coming in tonight. How old is your mother? I don't know if I'm old, at 56. I'm definitely overweight at maybe just under 200 lb. Lots of tissues to blot up the thyroid hormone. Gail In hypothyroidism , Chuck B <cblatchl@p...> wrote: > Gail, > > You wrote: > > > ... I have been taking 100 mcg of levothyroxin for the > > past month, and that was just because I asked a couple of hypothyroid > > friends what they take. They take 100 mcg, so that's what I did. ... > > Yikes! You really are playing with fire. Too much of this stuff or too > sudden an increase in dose can cause cardiac arrest. You really should > only do this under a physician's supervision. > > That said, the manufacturers' recommended doses are on the web somewhere > and in the list archives. It varies with body weight, age, gender, and > perhaps most importantly, residual activity of your thyroid, if any. The > precise optimum dose also depends on the brand name. Synthroid seems to > be the most concentrated or most active. Levoxyl typically requires at > least one step (12.5 micrograms) more for the same effect. > > As I recall, the maximum Synthroid dose for women was around 200 ug (no > thyroid function, middle age, average weight). Men were about half that. > As you get older the requirement drops. My mother went from 200 down to > 150 ug over the years. > > To increase your dose safely without blood tests, you need to make the > absolute minimum increases in dosage possible and wait several weeks > before considering another increase. With a TSH test, the doctor can > scale up the dose more quickly and safely, getting you into the > comfortable euthyroid zone in a shorter time. Of course, the TSH might > eventually say you are at your limit while the symptoms persist. > However, that also suggests further increases should be cautiously modest. > > Without such tests you have no way of knowing how close you are to > danger. Your afternoon symptoms might even be due to something else, so > a fair increase in dosage could suddenly throw you into a dangerous > hyperthyroid condition. You can't take the pills back once those > symptoms start, and the yuk symptoms might still be there on top of the > hyper ones. > > T3 or a mix is probably safer than T4 alone for playing around without > the blood tests, because the effects are more immediate and correct > themselves more quickly if you overdo it. I personally would not risk > either one without some guidance from the lab. > > Please be careful. > > Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2004 Report Share Posted June 30, 2004 Gail, You wrote: > OK, now I am worried. That's too much, eh... More likely too little, based on averages and your symptoms, but I would want a blood test to confirm it. If your thyroid is still working even partly, that could be too much. An error on the high side should be carefully avoided. Feeling hot is not unusual for the adjustment period. As we've discussed (see the archives) the levels can " oscillate " for awhile until all the other inputs and outgoes adjust. Hashimotos is also notorious for swings in dosage, as the thyroid periodically tries to work again. You first need to know what you are dealing with. If your young doctor diagnosed you as normal with a single TSH reading, that is another issue to be addressed. However, he ought to order at least one, just so he can prove to you he is right. Did you give us a TSH level? Sorry, I don't recall one. > How old is your mother? ... Mom is 79. They did not start decreasing her dose until she was over 65. I forgot exactly when. I would describe 56 as slightly late childhood, still in the maximum dose range. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2004 Report Share Posted June 30, 2004 I would like to know what I'm dealing with too... But that will have to wait. Things were getting scary with me-- thoughts of death, and the terrible muscle and ligament pain (hurts just to stand up, never mind walking), chest pains that were getting worse and more frequent, swollen ankles and feet, blurry vision, the world just a big gray fog. I couldn't wait any longer, and no guarantee even my old Dr. would do anything. I had to do something. It was bad enough that I was willing to take the chance of a heart attack and dying (yes, I read that on a website before I came here). I don't want to die, I have a very big wish to live though... I had a TSH, that's all, and my old Dr. said I was OK. I was in the upper 1/3 of the ref range, and I cannot remember what that range was. I did say at the time that I would not accept a TSH as proof of anything, hypoT or not hypoT, in my dogs-- only ever found it in the TSH once, just by happenstance. They get the full profile. My Dr. said he might have agred with me 10 years ago, but this TSH is a " sensitive test " , which he seemed to think infallible. Well, who was I to argue... Now, I know better. My mother will be 79 this year too, in Sept. My mother the Virgin (oops, I mean Virgo;-)) is also notorious for swings > in dosage, as the thyroid periodically tries to work again. You first > need to know what you are dealing with. > > If your young doctor diagnosed you as normal with a single TSH reading, > that is another issue to be addressed. However, he ought to order at > least one, just so he can prove to you he is right. Did you give us a > TSH level? Sorry, I don't recall one. > > > How old is your mother? ... > > Mom is 79. They did not start decreasing her dose until she was over 65. > I forgot exactly when. > > I would describe 56 as slightly late childhood, > still in the maximum dose range. > > Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2004 Report Share Posted June 30, 2004 extremely adrenal with all the swelling as well--- > I would like to know what I'm dealing with too... But that will have > to wait. Things were getting scary with me-- thoughts of death, and > the terrible muscle and ligament pain (hurts just to stand up, never > mind walking), chest pains that were getting worse and more frequent, > swollen ankles and feet, blurry vision, the world just a big gray > fog. I couldn't wait any longer, and no guarantee even my old Dr. > would do anything. I had to do something. It was bad enough that I > was willing to take the chance of a heart attack and dying (yes, I > read that on a website before I came here). I don't want to die, I > have a very big wish to live though... > I had a TSH, that's all, and my old Dr. said I was OK. I was in the > upper 1/3 of the ref range, and I cannot remember what that range > was. I did say at the time that I would not accept a TSH as proof of > anything, hypoT or not hypoT, in my dogs-- only ever found it in the > TSH once, just by happenstance. They get the full profile. My Dr. > said he might have agred with me 10 years ago, but this TSH is > a " sensitive test " , which he seemed to think infallible. Well, who > was I to argue... Now, I know better. > My mother will be 79 this year too, in Sept. My mother the Virgin > (oops, I mean Virgo;-)) > > > > is also notorious for swings > > in dosage, as the thyroid periodically tries to work again. You > first > > need to know what you are dealing with. > > > > If your young doctor diagnosed you as normal with a single TSH > reading, > > that is another issue to be addressed. However, he ought to order > at > > least one, just so he can prove to you he is right. Did you give us > a > > TSH level? Sorry, I don't recall one. > > > > > How old is your mother? ... > > > > Mom is 79. They did not start decreasing her dose until she was > over 65. > > I forgot exactly when. > > > > I would describe 56 as slightly late childhood, > > still in the maximum dose range. > > > > Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2004 Report Share Posted July 1, 2004 Yes, I know. Gail > extremely adrenal with all the swelling as well--- > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2004 Report Share Posted July 1, 2004 the dr refused to give my mom antibody tests.. said her ins wouldnt pay for them after like 4 tries he gave that excuse and told her nothing was wrong with her and no he wouldnt refer her to anyone. My mom called the ins. and they said if he ok'd it they would cover it.. sos he called the nurse and told her and we have yet to hear back..grrrr. My dr refused to give me the test too so i paid for it myself and then he said oh its not important doesnt mean anything...grrrr Re: Recommended doses > OK, now I am worried. That's too much, eh... I did take 1/4 of a 300 > mcg dog pill for the first two weeks (75 mcg approx), then for the > next four weeks the 100 mcg of Eltroxin (GlaxoKline) which is a > Canadian company I think. But I have to say, I don't think I've had > any adverse reactions-- well, weepines for the first 3 or 4 weeks, > and a couple of days last week I felt hot. So I guess I'm OK on this > dose. I think my heart is OK. I won't up it though.... I won't be > seeing my Dr. until Aug 9th and I won't ever go back to the new young > Dr. who informed me I am NOT hypothyroid, and he would NOT order me > any testing, and if I wanted it, I would have to pay for it and it > would cost me 100's of $'s. Yes, he was a very opinionated young man. > But I just can't die right now, as my husband doesn't get back home > for three days yet. I have 13 dogs to look after by myself until > then, plus a boarder coming in tonight. > How old is your mother? I don't know if I'm old, at 56. I'm > definitely overweight at maybe just under 200 lb. Lots of tissues to > blot up the thyroid hormone. > Gail > > In hypothyroidism , Chuck B <cblatchl@p...> wrote: > > Gail, > > > > You wrote: > > > > > ... I have been taking 100 mcg of levothyroxin for the > > > past month, and that was just because I asked a couple of > hypothyroid > > > friends what they take. They take 100 mcg, so that's what I > did. ... > > > > Yikes! You really are playing with fire. Too much of this stuff or > too > > sudden an increase in dose can cause cardiac arrest. You really > should > > only do this under a physician's supervision. > > > > That said, the manufacturers' recommended doses are on the web > somewhere > > and in the list archives. It varies with body weight, age, gender, > and > > perhaps most importantly, residual activity of your thyroid, if > any. The > > precise optimum dose also depends on the brand name. Synthroid > seems to > > be the most concentrated or most active. Levoxyl typically requires > at > > least one step (12.5 micrograms) more for the same effect. > > > > As I recall, the maximum Synthroid dose for women was around 200 ug > (no > > thyroid function, middle age, average weight). Men were about half > that. > > As you get older the requirement drops. My mother went from 200 > down to > > 150 ug over the years. > > > > To increase your dose safely without blood tests, you need to make > the > > absolute minimum increases in dosage possible and wait several > weeks > > before considering another increase. With a TSH test, the doctor > can > > scale up the dose more quickly and safely, getting you into the > > comfortable euthyroid zone in a shorter time. Of course, the TSH > might > > eventually say you are at your limit while the symptoms persist. > > However, that also suggests further increases should be cautiously > modest. > > > > Without such tests you have no way of knowing how close you are to > > danger. Your afternoon symptoms might even be due to something > else, so > > a fair increase in dosage could suddenly throw you into a dangerous > > hyperthyroid condition. You can't take the pills back once those > > symptoms start, and the yuk symptoms might still be there on top of > the > > hyper ones. > > > > T3 or a mix is probably safer than T4 alone for playing around > without > > the blood tests, because the effects are more immediate and correct > > themselves more quickly if you overdo it. I personally would not > risk > > either one without some guidance from the lab. > > > > Please be careful. > > > > Chuck > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2004 Report Share Posted July 1, 2004 btw i got my testing from healthcheckusa.com it's prob hmm 150$for thyroid panel 2 and antibody test (i think i ferget lots fo things) Re: Recommended doses > OK, now I am worried. That's too much, eh... I did take 1/4 of a 300 > mcg dog pill for the first two weeks (75 mcg approx), then for the > next four weeks the 100 mcg of Eltroxin (GlaxoKline) which is a > Canadian company I think. But I have to say, I don't think I've had > any adverse reactions-- well, weepines for the first 3 or 4 weeks, > and a couple of days last week I felt hot. So I guess I'm OK on this > dose. I think my heart is OK. I won't up it though.... I won't be > seeing my Dr. until Aug 9th and I won't ever go back to the new young > Dr. who informed me I am NOT hypothyroid, and he would NOT order me > any testing, and if I wanted it, I would have to pay for it and it > would cost me 100's of $'s. Yes, he was a very opinionated young man. > But I just can't die right now, as my husband doesn't get back home > for three days yet. I have 13 dogs to look after by myself until > then, plus a boarder coming in tonight. > How old is your mother? I don't know if I'm old, at 56. I'm > definitely overweight at maybe just under 200 lb. Lots of tissues to > blot up the thyroid hormone. > Gail > > In hypothyroidism , Chuck B <cblatchl@p...> wrote: > > Gail, > > > > You wrote: > > > > > ... I have been taking 100 mcg of levothyroxin for the > > > past month, and that was just because I asked a couple of > hypothyroid > > > friends what they take. They take 100 mcg, so that's what I > did. ... > > > > Yikes! You really are playing with fire. Too much of this stuff or > too > > sudden an increase in dose can cause cardiac arrest. You really > should > > only do this under a physician's supervision. > > > > That said, the manufacturers' recommended doses are on the web > somewhere > > and in the list archives. It varies with body weight, age, gender, > and > > perhaps most importantly, residual activity of your thyroid, if > any. The > > precise optimum dose also depends on the brand name. Synthroid > seems to > > be the most concentrated or most active. Levoxyl typically requires > at > > least one step (12.5 micrograms) more for the same effect. > > > > As I recall, the maximum Synthroid dose for women was around 200 ug > (no > > thyroid function, middle age, average weight). Men were about half > that. > > As you get older the requirement drops. My mother went from 200 > down to > > 150 ug over the years. > > > > To increase your dose safely without blood tests, you need to make > the > > absolute minimum increases in dosage possible and wait several > weeks > > before considering another increase. With a TSH test, the doctor > can > > scale up the dose more quickly and safely, getting you into the > > comfortable euthyroid zone in a shorter time. Of course, the TSH > might > > eventually say you are at your limit while the symptoms persist. > > However, that also suggests further increases should be cautiously > modest. > > > > Without such tests you have no way of knowing how close you are to > > danger. Your afternoon symptoms might even be due to something > else, so > > a fair increase in dosage could suddenly throw you into a dangerous > > hyperthyroid condition. You can't take the pills back once those > > symptoms start, and the yuk symptoms might still be there on top of > the > > hyper ones. > > > > T3 or a mix is probably safer than T4 alone for playing around > without > > the blood tests, because the effects are more immediate and correct > > themselves more quickly if you overdo it. I personally would not > risk > > either one without some guidance from the lab. > > > > Please be careful. > > > > Chuck > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2004 Report Share Posted July 1, 2004 my dr said ohhh noo the new tsh test is super sensitive.. have they really changed it? made me mad.. when i came him my antibody test he said it meant nothing( it was in the hundreds and suppsoe to be 0).. dr's are stupid.. gotta tellt hem what to do Re: Recommended doses > I would like to know what I'm dealing with too... But that will have > to wait. Things were getting scary with me-- thoughts of death, and > the terrible muscle and ligament pain (hurts just to stand up, never > mind walking), chest pains that were getting worse and more frequent, > swollen ankles and feet, blurry vision, the world just a big gray > fog. I couldn't wait any longer, and no guarantee even my old Dr. > would do anything. I had to do something. It was bad enough that I > was willing to take the chance of a heart attack and dying (yes, I > read that on a website before I came here). I don't want to die, I > have a very big wish to live though... > I had a TSH, that's all, and my old Dr. said I was OK. I was in the > upper 1/3 of the ref range, and I cannot remember what that range > was. I did say at the time that I would not accept a TSH as proof of > anything, hypoT or not hypoT, in my dogs-- only ever found it in the > TSH once, just by happenstance. They get the full profile. My Dr. > said he might have agred with me 10 years ago, but this TSH is > a " sensitive test " , which he seemed to think infallible. Well, who > was I to argue... Now, I know better. > My mother will be 79 this year too, in Sept. My mother the Virgin > (oops, I mean Virgo;-)) > > > > is also notorious for swings > > in dosage, as the thyroid periodically tries to work again. You > first > > need to know what you are dealing with. > > > > If your young doctor diagnosed you as normal with a single TSH > reading, > > that is another issue to be addressed. However, he ought to order > at > > least one, just so he can prove to you he is right. Did you give us > a > > TSH level? Sorry, I don't recall one. > > > > > How old is your mother? ... > > > > Mom is 79. They did not start decreasing her dose until she was > over 65. > > I forgot exactly when. > > > > I would describe 56 as slightly late childhood, > > still in the maximum dose range. > > > > Chuck > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2004 Report Share Posted July 1, 2004 I can't/won't deal with so-called professionals--who are not! Don't you just wonder why they decided on healing as a career, and how they become so callous? Gail In hypothyroidism , " Girlie " <kckim@c...> wrote: > the dr refused to give my mom antibody tests.. said her ins wouldnt pay for > them after like 4 tries he gave that excuse and told her nothing was wrong > with her and no he wouldnt refer her to anyone. My mom called the ins. and > they said if he ok'd it they would cover it.. sos he called the nurse and > told her and we have yet to hear back..grrrr. My dr refused to give me the > test too so i paid for it myself and then he said oh its not important > doesnt mean anything...grrrr > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2004 Report Share Posted July 1, 2004 Yes I'm quite certain an American friend of mine with HypoT uses this. But I'm in Canada. We have " universal healthcare " , everybody supposed to have equal opportunity. Sounds good in theory, eh? Ah well, I suppose, like every Dr.in the world, they come in the good, the bad, and the indifferent. Today is Canada Day, so I suppose I should not grouch today.:-) Gail > btw i got my testing from healthcheckusa.com it's prob hmm 150$for thyroid > panel 2 and antibody test (i think i ferget lots fo things) > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2004 Report Share Posted July 1, 2004 Hooray for Canada, our sane neighbor to the north. Canada Day is on my calendar. Gracia > Yes I'm quite certain an American friend of mine with HypoT uses > this. But I'm in Canada. We have " universal healthcare " , everybody > supposed to have equal opportunity. Sounds good in theory, eh? Ah > well, I suppose, like every Dr.in the world, they come in the good, > the bad, and the indifferent. Today is Canada Day, so I suppose I > should not grouch today.:-) > Gail > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2004 Report Share Posted July 1, 2004 Sane? Maybe...:-) My husband is singing in Ottawa today (our national capitol). That's why I have to get up with the dogs. Gail > > Hooray for Canada, our sane neighbor to the north. Canada Day is on my > calendar. > Gracia > > > > Yes I'm quite certain an American friend of mine with HypoT uses > > this. But I'm in Canada. We have " universal healthcare " , everybody > > supposed to have equal opportunity. Sounds good in theory, eh? Ah > > well, I suppose, like every Dr.in the world, they come in the good, > > the bad, and the indifferent. Today is Canada Day, so I suppose I > > should not grouch today.:-) > > Gail > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2004 Report Share Posted July 1, 2004 My daughter is in classes with the majority of our future doctors and not one (that she has met) is doing this because of a " calling " --- their parents are making them is the first answer---second is for the money--- they are very smart kids and it's easy for them to do this!!! and my daughter struggles doing it while treating an entire floor (180 kids) for everything from the flu, wounds---ect. ect. for free!!!! the system needs a major overhaul to allow kids who want to do this as opposed to kids doing it because of money!! it's very sad > > the dr refused to give my mom antibody tests.. said her ins wouldnt > pay for > > them after like 4 tries he gave that excuse and told her nothing > was wrong > > with her and no he wouldnt refer her to anyone. My mom called the > ins. and > > they said if he ok'd it they would cover it.. sos he called the > nurse and > > told her and we have yet to hear back..grrrr. My dr refused to give > me the > > test too so i paid for it myself and then he said oh its not > important > > doesnt mean anything...grrrr > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2004 Report Share Posted July 1, 2004 Yes it is sad. But (looking on the bright side) they are young people who haven't maybe settled yet. Maybe given time, they will make excellent Dr's-- I hope! I remember being that age myself, and having not a clue as to what I was going to do with my education, and taking classes because I found those subjects easiest. I met my husband in 2nd year University, and I was so impressed with him-- because he knew exactly what he was going to do in life, and how he was going to go about doing it. I didn't know anybody else like him. The rest os us were pretty aimless at that age. Your daughter sounds like a sensible person, and a caregiver. Tell her we need good endocrinologists!!! Gail In hypothyroidism , " tina83862 " <tina83862@y...> wrote: > My daughter is in classes with the majority of our future doctors and > not one (that she has met) is doing this because of a " calling " --- > their parents are making them is the first answer---second is for the > money--- > > they are very smart kids and it's easy for them to do this!!! > > and my daughter struggles doing it while treating an entire floor > (180 kids) for everything from the flu, wounds---ect. ect. for > free!!!! > > the system needs a major overhaul to allow kids who want to do this > as opposed to kids doing it because of money!! > > it's very sad > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2004 Report Share Posted July 3, 2004 I don't think anyone should start on more than 25mcg, and shouldn't increase for at least 8 weeks. Better safe than sorry. Yes, even for Armour, 8 weeks. The T4 will take quite a while to act, so increasing just based on the T3 not being enough is very dangerous. Jan Chuck B wrote: >Gail, > > > > Yikes! You really are playing with fire. Too much of this stuff or too > >sudden an increase in dose can cause cardiac arrest. You really should >only do this under a physician's supervision. > >That said, the manufacturers' recommended doses are on the web somewhere >and in the list archives. It varies with body weight, age, gender, and >perhaps most importantly, residual activity of your thyroid, if any. The >precise optimum dose also depends on the brand name. Synthroid seems to >be the most concentrated or most active. Levoxyl typically requires at >least one step (12.5 micrograms) more for the same effect. > >As I recall, the maximum Synthroid dose for women was around 200 ug (no >thyroid function, middle age, average weight). Men were about half that. >As you get older the requirement drops. My mother went from 200 down to >150 ug over the years. > >To increase your dose safely without blood tests, you need to make the >absolute minimum increases in dosage possible and wait several weeks >before considering another increase. With a TSH test, the doctor can >scale up the dose more quickly and safely, getting you into the >comfortable euthyroid zone in a shorter time. Of course, the TSH might >eventually say you are at your limit while the symptoms persist. >However, that also suggests further increases should be cautiously modest. > >Without such tests you have no way of knowing how close you are to >danger. Your afternoon symptoms might even be due to something else, so >a fair increase in dosage could suddenly throw you into a dangerous >hyperthyroid condition. You can't take the pills back once those >symptoms start, and the yuk symptoms might still be there on top of the >hyper ones. > >T3 or a mix is probably safer than T4 alone for playing around without >the blood tests, because the effects are more immediate and correct >themselves more quickly if you overdo it. I personally would not risk >either one without some guidance from the lab. > >Please be careful. > >Chuck > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2004 Report Share Posted July 3, 2004 Jan, This is very good information to have. A couple of concerned friends and family members have been worried enough about what I've done, that after I told them what Chuck said, have asked me to lower my dose now. I am so reluctant to do that...Six weeks ago I started with 75 mcg of T4, and two weeks later I upped that to 100 mcg. That's six weeks with no adverse effects, but there are definitely positive effects happening. After six weeks, if I have had no hyperthyroid signs-- no heart palps, no sweaty palms, no anxiousness, can it be taken for grated that I can withstand this amount of T4, do you think? I have no idea what my T3 or anything else is, as the Dr. would not test me. All I know is that I had to do something, and I really could not wait any longer. Gail In hypothyroidism , Janaina Viggiano <janaina@v...> wrote: > I don't think anyone should start on more than 25mcg, and shouldn't > increase for at least 8 weeks. Better safe than sorry. Yes, even for > Armour, 8 weeks. The T4 will take quite a while to act, so increasing > just based on the T3 not being enough is very dangerous. > > > Jan > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2004 Report Share Posted July 3, 2004 I am sure you will be OK, although it is easier to use Armour, can't you order some? Can't you go to the vet? I have self treated for the most part, and then found docs to write the Rxs. We actually do a better job of it! Gracia > Jan, > This is very good information to have. A couple of concerned friends > and family members have been worried enough about what I've done, > that after I told them what Chuck said, have asked me to lower my > dose now. I am so reluctant to do that...Six weeks ago I started with > 75 mcg of T4, and two weeks later I upped that to 100 mcg. That's six > weeks with no adverse effects, but there are definitely positive > effects happening. After six weeks, if I have had no hyperthyroid > signs-- no heart palps, no sweaty palms, no anxiousness, can it be > taken for grated that I can withstand this amount of T4, do you > think? > I have no idea what my T3 or anything else is, as the Dr. would not > test me. All I know is that I had to do something, and I really could > not wait any longer. > Gail > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2004 Report Share Posted July 3, 2004 I disagree, going so slow would be torture. Dr. Derry used to start patients on 3 grains of Armour! that would have been too much for me though. Gracia > I don't think anyone should start on more than 25mcg, and shouldn't > increase for at least 8 weeks. Better safe than sorry. Yes, even for > Armour, 8 weeks. The T4 will take quite a while to act, so increasing > just based on the T3 not being enough is very dangerous. > > > Jan > > > Chuck B wrote: > > >Gail, > > > > > > > > Yikes! You really are playing with fire. Too much of this stuff or too > > > >sudden an increase in dose can cause cardiac arrest. You really should > >only do this under a physician's supervision. > > > >That said, the manufacturers' recommended doses are on the web somewhere > >and in the list archives. It varies with body weight, age, gender, and > >perhaps most importantly, residual activity of your thyroid, if any. The > >precise optimum dose also depends on the brand name. Synthroid seems to > >be the most concentrated or most active. Levoxyl typically requires at > >least one step (12.5 micrograms) more for the same effect. > > > >As I recall, the maximum Synthroid dose for women was around 200 ug (no > >thyroid function, middle age, average weight). Men were about half that. > >As you get older the requirement drops. My mother went from 200 down to > >150 ug over the years. > > > >To increase your dose safely without blood tests, you need to make the > >absolute minimum increases in dosage possible and wait several weeks > >before considering another increase. With a TSH test, the doctor can > >scale up the dose more quickly and safely, getting you into the > >comfortable euthyroid zone in a shorter time. Of course, the TSH might > >eventually say you are at your limit while the symptoms persist. > >However, that also suggests further increases should be cautiously modest. > > > >Without such tests you have no way of knowing how close you are to > >danger. Your afternoon symptoms might even be due to something else, so > >a fair increase in dosage could suddenly throw you into a dangerous > >hyperthyroid condition. You can't take the pills back once those > >symptoms start, and the yuk symptoms might still be there on top of the > >hyper ones. > > > >T3 or a mix is probably safer than T4 alone for playing around without > >the blood tests, because the effects are more immediate and correct > >themselves more quickly if you overdo it. I personally would not risk > >either one without some guidance from the lab. > > > >Please be careful. > > > >Chuck > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2004 Report Share Posted July 4, 2004 I ordered some a few days ago. They didn't have the actual Armour in one-grain at the time, so I ordered the generic. I also took a more conservative approach today-- took 50 mcg of Eltroxin. I also googled " Eltroxin " last night, and they also advise starting at 12 1/2 to 25 mcg. I have been worried since you guys mentioned this, and maybe I'm paranoid now, but I felt jittery last night and again this morning. However, BP and pulse were normal last night. gail > > I am sure you will be OK, although it is easier to use Armour, can't you > order some? Can't you go to the vet? I have self treated for the most > part, and then found docs to write the Rxs. We actually do a better job of > it! > Gracia > > > > Jan, > > This is very good information to have. A couple of concerned friends > > and family members have been worried enough about what I've done, > > that after I told them what Chuck said, have asked me to lower my > > dose now. I am so reluctant to do that...Six weeks ago I started with > > 75 mcg of T4, and two weeks later I upped that to 100 mcg. That's six > > weeks with no adverse effects, but there are definitely positive > > effects happening. After six weeks, if I have had no hyperthyroid > > signs-- no heart palps, no sweaty palms, no anxiousness, can it be > > taken for grated that I can withstand this amount of T4, do you > > think? > > I have no idea what my T3 or anything else is, as the Dr. would not > > test me. All I know is that I had to do something, and I really could > > not wait any longer. > > Gail > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2004 Report Share Posted July 4, 2004 I've seen women on large dosages too - I am on the equivalent of 350mcg and it is not enough for me, not even on cortisone. But I do agree that starting on 100mcg is not the best. I personally believe in starting slowly. Jan & Gail on wrote: >OK, now I am worried. That's too much, eh... I did take 1/4 of a 300 >mcg dog pill for the first two weeks (75 mcg approx), then for the >next four weeks the 100 mcg of Eltroxin (GlaxoKline) which is a >Canadian company I think. But I have to say, I don't think I've had >any adverse reactions-- well, weepines for the first 3 or 4 weeks, >and a couple of days last week I felt hot. So I guess I'm OK on this >dose. I think my heart is OK. I won't up it though.... I won't be >seeing my Dr. until Aug 9th and I won't ever go back to the new young >Dr. who informed me I am NOT hypothyroid, and he would NOT order me >any testing, and if I wanted it, I would have to pay for it and it >would cost me 100's of $'s. Yes, he was a very opinionated young man. >But I just can't die right now, as my husband doesn't get back home >for three days yet. I have 13 dogs to look after by myself until >then, plus a boarder coming in tonight. >How old is your mother? I don't know if I'm old, at 56. I'm >definitely overweight at maybe just under 200 lb. Lots of tissues to >blot up the thyroid hormone. >Gail > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2004 Report Share Posted July 4, 2004 Really? I took a copy of the Dr. Derry article with Sholom, and I liked what he said--made good sense. Maybe dogs are different in some way, but with them, we just start them on the necessary dose based on their optimal weight-- don't have to work up to it. Gail In hypothyroidism , " Gracia " <circe@g...> wrote: > > I disagree, going so slow would be torture. Dr. Derry used to start > patients on 3 grains of Armour! that would have been too much for me though. > Gracia > > > I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2004 Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 Jan, You wrote: > I don't think anyone should start on more than 25mcg, and shouldn't > increase for at least 8 weeks. Better safe than sorry. ... Well, the manufacturer's recommendations, on which the majority of prescriptions are based, say that it depends on the specific factors I listed, particularly the TSH level. So, your opinion on how to prescribe it seems to be distinctly in the minority. My physician started me at 75 mcg and increased to 100 after six weeks. About seven weeks later he upped it to 112 mcg. All the increases were based on blood tests, and I never experienced any hyperthyroid symptoms. I did, however, want him to hurry up the increases, because the lower doses just weren't enough, although they gave some relief initially. I doubt that 25 mcg would have even made a noticeable difference. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2004 Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 Geez you two-- Between the pair of you, you have got me so worried about starting on that high a dose, that I have been worried about having a heart attack-- so yesterday and today I only took half a pill-- 50 mcg. Now I'm rethinking that, and maybe I'll go back onto the 100 mcg., because I have had no hyperthyroid signs either. The reason I asked whether anybody knew how long the supplement takes to reach cellular level, is that in dogs it does take about 6 weeks or so. My concern was that if that relates to people, after 6 weeks on 75 to 100mcg, maybe the supplement was working up to toxic levels. But I still don't know if that is the case. If I have had no adverse reactions after 6 weeks, perhaps there will be no adverse reactions at all, and I could safely stay on the 100 mcg? Gail > My physician started me at 75 mcg and increased to 100 after six weeks. > About seven weeks later he upped it to 112 mcg. All the increases were > based on blood tests, and I never experienced any hyperthyroid symptoms. > I did, however, want him to hurry up the increases, because the lower > doses just weren't enough, although they gave some relief initially. I > doubt that 25 mcg would have even made a noticeable difference. > > Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2004 Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 QUESTION How do I switch from a levothyroxine T4-only drug to Armour®Thyroid? ANSWER If you are a patient, be sure to discuss any desire to change medication with your doctor or other healthcare professional. Dosage conversion information is provided below for guidance to the doctor or other healthcare professional in selection of approximate equivalent doses. The basic " rule of thumb " in converting thyroid doses is that 100 mcg of T4 is roughly equivalent to 25 mcg of T3, or 1 grain (60 mg) of desiccated thyroid (Armour® Thyroid), or liotrix-1 (Thyrolar®– 1)a. Please refer to the table below for approximate equivalent strengths of various thyroid preparations, based on clinical responses as taken from the USP-DI.1,2 1,2 Drug & #8594; Thyroid Tablets, USP (Armour® Thyroid) Liotrix Tablets, USP (Thyrolar® a) Liothronine Tablets, USP (Cytomel® Levothyroxine Tablets, USP (Unithroid® c, Levoxyl® d, Levothroid® e, Synthroid® f) Approx. Dose Equivalent 1/4 grain (15 mg) 1/4 6.25 mcg 25 mcg (.025 mg) Approx. Dose Equivalent 1/2 grain (30 mg) 1/2 12.5 mcg 50 mcg (.05 mg) Approx. Dose Equivalent 1 grain (60 mg) 1 25 mcg 100 mcg ( .1 mg) Approx. Dose Equivalent 1 1/2 grains (90 mg) 1 1/2 37.5 mcg 150 mcg (.15 mg) Approx. Dose Equivalent 2 grains (120 mg) 2 50 mcg 200 mcg (.2 mg) Approx. Dose Equivalent 3 grains (180 mg) 3 75 mcg 300 mcg (.3 mg) Note: Please keep in mind that dose adjustments may be required. Thyroid dosing is highly specific and will need to be individualized by your doctor or other healthcare professional to achieve maximum benefit and optimal patient health. Notes (see above): Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2004 Report Share Posted July 6, 2004 That is wonderful that you have no negative effects! And you did wait 6 weeks between switching from the 75 to the 100. Yes, I would say after 6 weeks on the dosage you would know if you are on the right dosage or not, but I wouldn't increase just because there are no hyper symptoms, I'd increase if there are still hypo symptoms like fatigue and low body temperature, especially low basal temperature. I'd use the Broda method and record basal body temperature after the 6 weeks to see if it is normal or not. Don't be convinced that everyone can only feel good on Armour or Cytomel, plenty of people feel good just on Synthroid or Levoxyl, but you won't find many of them in the groups. If you feel great on what 99% of doctors prescribe, why would you bother research the disease online? So the percentages in the group are different from the ones in " real life " . I say give the T4 a trial, if after you've been on the right dosage for a couple months you still have symptoms, then it is time to pursue something else. Otherwise, you are one of the lucky ones. Jan & Gail on wrote: >Jan, >This is very good information to have. A couple of concerned friends >and family members have been worried enough about what I've done, >that after I told them what Chuck said, have asked me to lower my >dose now. I am so reluctant to do that...Six weeks ago I started with >75 mcg of T4, and two weeks later I upped that to 100 mcg. That's six >weeks with no adverse effects, but there are definitely positive >effects happening. After six weeks, if I have had no hyperthyroid >signs-- no heart palps, no sweaty palms, no anxiousness, can it be >taken for grated that I can withstand this amount of T4, do you >think? >I have no idea what my T3 or anything else is, as the Dr. would not >test me. All I know is that I had to do something, and I really could >not wait any longer. >Gail > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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