H1N1

[Guest guest]

I am NOT wrong crystal and my newest post will show you that. what you DON'T

understand is that how the mist is created. it is cold adapted whx means that it

is only viable in the colder temps of the nose and does not live in the warmer

temps of the lungs. why don't you check out the CDC's website before you say I

am wrong. it is in the nose where the body produces antibodies against the virus

(antigen)

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/qa/nasalspray.htm

Can the nasal spray flu vaccine give you the flu? (this is info about the

regular seasonal flu mist)

Unlike the flu shot, the nasal spray flu vaccine does contain live viruses.

However, the viruses are attenuated (weakened) and cannot cause flu illness. The

weakened viruses are cold-adapted, which means they are designed to only cause

infection at the cooler temperatures found within the nose. The viruses cannot

infect the lungs or other areas where warmer temperatures exist. Some children

and young adults 2-17 years of age have reported experiencing mild reactions

after receiving nasal spray flu vaccine, including runny nose, nasal congestion

or cough, chills, tiredness/weakness, sore throat and headache. Some adults

18-49 years of age have reported runny nose or nasal congestion, cough, chills,

tiredness/weakness, sore throat and headache. These side effects are mild and

short-lasting, especially when compared to symptoms of influenza infection.

* " Healthy " indicates persons who do not have an underlying medical condition

that predisposes them to influenza complications.

Here is info about the H1N1 vaccine flu mist:

http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/vaccination/nasalspray_qa.htm

an excerpt that says the same info as the regular influenza Live Attenuated flu

mist aka LAV:

Can the nasal spray flu vaccine give you the flu?

Unlike the flu shot, the nasal spray flu vaccine does contain live viruses.

However, the viruses are attenuated (weakened) and cannot cause flu illness. The

weakened viruses are cold-adapted, which means they are designed to only cause

infection at the cooler temperatures found within the nose. The viruses cannot

infect the lungs or other areas where warmer temperatures exist. Some children

and young adults 2 years to 17 years of age have reported experiencing mild

reactions after receiving seasonal nasal spray flu vaccine, including runny

nose, nasal congestion or cough, chills, tiredness/weakness, sore throat and

headache. Some adults 18 years to 49 years of age have reported runny nose or

nasal congestion, cough, chills, tiredness/weakness, sore throat and headache.

These side effects are mild and short-lasting, especially when compared to

symptoms of influenza infection.

You are wrong. If you get the flumist you get the live virus and shedding

will occur. The fact sheet says that you should avoid immune compromised

people for 21 days after receiving the mist. How can the H1N1 flu not cause

the H1N1 flu???

CW

-- H1N1

Nancie the weakened virus still sheds.

CW

Actually it is not completely live- it has been weakened aka attenuated and

it has been formulated so that it only lives in the cooler temperatures of

the nasal region where the body makes antibodies against it. Once it gets

into the body- the higher temperatures there will kill the virus in the

vaccine. Go to the CDC and read their explanation.

[Guest guest]

Nancie, after carefully reading what the doctors have to say, I'll take the one

shot vaccine.This seems to be the best one for me. I was planning to take it at

a lofcal drug store. Do you think that is a good idea?

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

From: nancie barnett <deifspirit@...>

Subject: Re: H1N1

hypothyroidism

Date: Thursday, October 22, 2009, 7:45 PM

One point is that is was developed to ONLY work in the cooler temperatures of

the nasal cavity. It does not live in the rest of the body.  The OTHER Point is

that attenuated means that the some of the DNA is altered to NOT cause the

disease but to provoke the body to create antibodies against the virus. it can

not cause the H1N1 flu.

From: Crystal

Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 6:11 AM

hypothyroidism

Subject: H1N1

  Nancie the weakened virus still sheds.

CW

Actually it is not completely live- it has been weakened aka attenuated and it

has been formulated so that it only lives in the cooler temperatures of the

nasal region where the body makes antibodies against it. Once it gets into the

body- the higher temperatures there will kill the virus in the vaccine. Go to

the CDC and read their explanation.

[Guest guest]

personally, I usually don't give the mist to my adult patients. I really only

use the mist for my healthy pediatric population where they don't like to get

shots, lol.....

I personally get the shot because I have lupus aka sle and I am on

immunosuppressive meds along with hypo T....

I just got mine from the local pharmacy down the street from my home because my

provider ran out of the vaccine. So, go ahead and get it at the pharmacy. some

of the stores in the CVS and Walgreens chains are giving away flu vaccines to

people who don't have insurance.

Nancie

From: Roni Molin

Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:37 PM

hypothyroidism

Subject: Re: H1N1

Nancie, after carefully reading what the doctors have to say, I'll take the

one shot vaccine.This seems to be the best one for me. I was planning to take it

at a lofcal drug store. Do you think that is a good idea?

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

From: nancie barnett <deifspirit@...>

Subject: Re: H1N1

hypothyroidism

Date: Thursday, October 22, 2009, 7:45 PM

One point is that is was developed to ONLY work in the cooler temperatures of

the nasal cavity. It does not live in the rest of the body. The OTHER Point is

that attenuated means that the some of the DNA is altered to NOT cause the

disease but to provoke the body to create antibodies against the virus. it can

not cause the H1N1 flu.

From: Crystal

Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 6:11 AM

hypothyroidism

Subject: H1N1

Nancie the weakened virus still sheds.

CW

Actually it is not completely live- it has been weakened aka attenuated and it

has been formulated so that it only lives in the cooler temperatures of the

nasal region where the body makes antibodies against it. Once it gets into the

body- the higher temperatures there will kill the virus in the vaccine. Go to

the CDC and read their explanation.

[Guest guest]

>I took tamiflu (one dose) and it made me sicker than the pig flu!

What were the side effects of tamiflu Crystal?

World-wide, (if I remember correctly, " authrotities " stockpiled tamiflu at the

time of the original scare about the bird-flu pandemic

they were convinced was going to happen; perchance those tamiflus are at their

" best before " date?

I hope you are completely recovered from the 'flu now.

Trish

>

> However, if one person in the family gets sick most likey the doc will rx

> tamiflu for the rest. I took tamiflu (one dose) and it made me sicker than

> the pig flu!

> CW

[Guest guest]

I am not getting a swine flu shot until it has been tested enough.

Betty

[Guest guest]

Here's another doctor's perspective. Kent Holtorf, MD is the chief medical

officer for the Fibromyalgia and Fatigue Centers. He is very well respected

and knowledgeable doctor. Knows a ton about hypoT.

_____

From: hypothyroidism [mailto:hypothyroidism ]

On Behalf Of Roni Molin

Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:38 PM

hypothyroidism

Subject: Re: H1N1

Nancie, after carefully reading what the doctors have to say, I'll take the

one shot vaccine.This seems to be the best one for me. I was planning to

take it at a lofcal drug store. Do you think that is a good idea?

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

From: nancie barnett <deifspiritmsn (DOT) <mailto:deifspirit%40msn.com> com>

Subject: Re: H1N1

hypothyroidism@ <mailto:hypothyroidism%40>

Date: Thursday, October 22, 2009, 7:45 PM

One point is that is was developed to ONLY work in the cooler temperatures

of the nasal cavity. It does not live in the rest of the body. The OTHER

Point is that attenuated means that the some of the DNA is altered to NOT

cause the disease but to provoke the body to create antibodies against the

virus. it can not cause the H1N1 flu.

From: Crystal

Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 6:11 AM

hypothyroidism@ <mailto:hypothyroidism%40>

Subject: H1N1

Nancie the weakened virus still sheds.

CW

Actually it is not completely live- it has been weakened aka attenuated and

it has been formulated so that it only lives in the cooler temperatures of

the nasal region where the body makes antibodies against it. Once it gets

into the body- the higher temperatures there will kill the virus in the

vaccine. Go to the CDC and read their explanation.

[Guest guest]

There are side effects from Tamiflu which I'm not inclined to look up

again right now, but some virus are quickly becoming resistant to

Tamiflu because if the knee-jerk reaction to prescribing it at the drop

of a hat.

Steve

Roni Molin wrote:

> What you say makes sense to me. So what do you suggest if someone comes down

with what seems to be the flu? Also, what if it's a cold? Can Tamiflu hurt you

if you don't actually have the flu?

>

>

>

>

> Roni

> <>Just because something

> isn't seen doesn't mean it's

> not there<>

>

>

>

>

> From: Steve <dudescholar4@...>

> Subject: Re: H1N1

> hypothyroidism

> Date: Thursday, October 22, 2009, 10:42 AM

>

>

> Tamaflu needs to be used within 48 hours to have much of an effect,

> since it effect is to stop viral reproduction, not kill viruses. After

> 48 hours, the process of viral reproduction is so far advanced that

> tamaflu has little if any effect. The problem I see with the

> prescribing practices is that 1-2 days usually passes before someone

> heads to a medical clinic and then it takes 1 to several days to get the

> results of a any tests for H1N1. By then, it's not only too late for

> tamaflu to have an effect on the course of the disease, it's WAY too

> late and one only gets the down side of tamaflu, the side effects AND

> the cost.

>

> Steve

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

" The Problem with Socialism is that eventually you

run out of Other People's Money. " --Margaret Thatcher

" Mistrust of Government is the Bedrock of American Patriotism "

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

[Guest guest]

Betty wrote:

> I am not getting a swine flu shot until it has been tested enough.

>

> Betty

As far as I know, I've never gotten a flu shot and certainly not since I

was old enough to have have remembered. I have no intension of ever

getting one either.

In the past twenty years, their have been two years when the flu shot

" guess " of viral mixes was completely wrong and yet, flu incidences and

deaths didn't increase those two years even though the flu shot was

totally and completely worthless on those two occasions.

What is true is that people who get a regular flu shot are as much as

twice as likely to catch the flu in any given year so if there were no

flu shots given one year, death rates and flu incidences would likely drop.

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

" The Problem with Socialism is that eventually you

run out of Other People's Money. " --Margaret Thatcher

" Mistrust of Government is the Bedrock of American Patriotism "

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

[Guest guest]

I got really nauseous and dizzy. I also read that it's never been tested on

pregnant women so I quit taking it. My doc said it was safe, but if they

have never tested it then how does he know?

CW

-- Re: H1N1

>I took tamiflu (one dose) and it made me sicker than the pig flu!

What were the side effects of tamiflu Crystal?

World-wide, (if I remember correctly, " authrotities " stockpiled tamiflu at

the time of the original scare about the bird-flu pandemic

they were convinced was going to happen; perchance those tamiflus are at

their " best before " date?

I hope you are completely recovered from the 'flu now.

Trish

>

> However, if one person in the family gets sick most likey the doc will rx

> tamiflu for the rest. I took tamiflu (one dose) and it made me sicker than

> the pig flu!

> CW

[Guest guest]

I am just getting over H1N1.  I had a nasal swab done and it was positive but i

did not get tamiflu.  I was very tired and worn out monday and tuesday. 

Wednesday I started coughing and wheezing.  Thursday morning i was having a lot

of trouble breathing and woke up with body aches, headache, chills, diarhea,

vomiting.  I went to the urgent care.  I was given a breathing treatment and

brought my oxygen back up to an acceptable level.  I came home with albuterol

and rested.  This morning I woke up feeling a little better and as the day has

gone on I am feeling pretty good except for the cough wich is bringing up tons

of crap.   i have to say that it was not THAT bad as far as flu's go.  As long

as I don't relapse I am doing fine.  I did take my normal vitamins x10 on

wednesday night when I started feeling worse so maybe that helped.

From: Crystal <sweetnwright@...>

Subject: Re: H1N1

hypothyroidism

Date: Thursday, October 22, 2009, 4:27 PM

 

However, if one person in the family gets sick most likey the

doc will rx

tamiflu for the rest. I took tamiflu (one dose) and it made me sicker than

the pig flu!

CW

-- Re: H1N1

Tamaflu needs to be used within 48 hours to have much of an effect,

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[Guest guest]

Roni Molin wrote:

> Steve,

> Usually I enjoy your posts because of the logic in them. However, how can you

justify

> this statement?

There are more details on this Canadian study elsewhere but this is the

first reference I was able to dig up. Getting the flu shot every year

increases one's chance of getting the flu in any subsequent year. The

flu shot itself somehow negatively impacts the ability of the body to

fight off subsequent viral infections.

Steve wrote:

> What is true is that people who get a regular flu shot are as much as

> twice as likely to catch the flu in any given year so if there were no

> flu shots given one year, death rates and flu incidences would likely drop.

Study links seasonal flu vaccine to increased risk for swine flu

Some 7,000 people took advantage of the free flu shots offered in Knox

County last weekend. But a new study suggests the vaccine could do more

harm than good.

Local health officials are reserving judgment for now.

" There's been some research done by some Canadian scientists and doctors

that might indicate that getting a seasonal flu shot will increase your

risk of getting H1N1 flu, " Dr. Martha Buchanan, Medical Director of the

Knox County Health Department said.

The report has prompted concern and confusion around the country, but it

may be a bit soon. It hasn't been published, and it has yet to go

through the rigorous review process.

" We like to see things repeated, we like to see things verified, we like

to really look at those things carefully and make sure it's a valid

conclusion, " Buchanan said.

Officials would also like to verify that it is a conclusion applicable

outside of Canada.

" We would want to start looking to see 'Are we seeing that in the United

States, or is it just something in that one study?' " Buchanan said.

So far the study has done little more than add to the confusion over the

flu.

" Once it gets published and our experts can look at it, I'm sure they

will. But we do spend a lot of our time stomping out myths, " Buchanan said.

The health department still expects the first doses of H1N1 flu vaccine

to be available starting next month.

http://www.wbir.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=100516 & catid=2

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

" The Problem with Socialism is that eventually you

run out of Other People's Money. " --Margaret Thatcher

" Mistrust of Government is the Bedrock of American Patriotism "

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

[Guest guest]

Roni Molin wrote:

> Steve,

> Usually I enjoy your posts because of the logic in them. However, how can you

justify

> this statement?

Steve wrote:

> What is true is that people who get a regular flu shot are as much as

> twice as likely to catch the flu in any given year so if there were no

> flu shots given one year, death rates and flu incidences would likely drop.

Ineffectiveness and Dangers of Flu Shots

Believing what governments say can be hazardous to your health. It's

even truer from corporate-sponsored studies on the benefits of their

products. Thus, be very leery about the new CSL Ltd. one on the

effectiveness of taking one Swine Flu dose. More to the point, any Swine

Flu shot as, in single or multiple doses, they're all extremely toxic,

dangerous, and must be avoided to protect human health from the

pathogenic onslaught vaccines are designed to unleash.

CSL is " Australia's leading biopharmaceutical company (and) the only

commercial manufacturer of influenza vaccines in the Southern

Hemisphere. " It's currently producing " a pandemic influenza vaccine

called Panvax H1N1 which uses the proven technology that has enabled us

to provide Australia with seasonal flu vaccines over the last 40 years. "

The New England Journal of Medicine published " the welcome news, "

claiming to show one shot produced the same immune response protection

as annual flu vaccines. More on their ineffectiveness and hidden dangers

below.

The National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (part of the

US National Institutes of Health) also claims its early trials and

studies confirm one dose provides protection eight to ten days after

inoculation. Again beware - their advice endangers your health,

especially about Swine Flu and the vaccines designed for it. They advise

everyone take them voluntarily. Later, Health and Human Services (HHS)

Secretary Kathleen Sebelius may mandate them if enough people don't

comply, and individual states may follow suit.

Separating Facts from Government and Industry Disinformation

According to the Centers for Disease Control (CDC), annual flu shots are

advised for " all children from 6 months through 18 years of age, "

everyone over 50, pregnant women, and individuals with " long-term health

problems " like heart, lung, kidney or liver disease, HIV/AIDS, other

immune system diseases or persons with weakened immune systems, asthma,

diabetes, anemia, certain muscle or nerve disorders, residents of

nursing homes or chronic care facilities, and certain others.

Warning about " seasonal epidemics, " the World Health Organization's

(WHO) advice is much the same, adding that " Seasonal influenza spreads

easily and can sweep through schools, nursing homes or businesses and

towns....The most effective way to prevent the disease or severe

outcomes from the illness is vaccination. "

The WHO claims " Among healthy adults, influenza vaccine can prevent 70%

to 90% of influenza-specific illness. Among the elderly, the vaccine

reduces severe illnesses and complications by up to 60%, and deaths by 80%. "

Information below shows WHO claims are false and misleading. So are the

CDC's and NIH's and doubly so for the new Swine Flu vaccines.

All Vaccines Are Ineffective and Unsafe

Null is a leading health and nutrition expert, author, documentary

filmmaker, founder of the Progressive Radio Network, and syndicated host

of the longest running health program in America, Natural Living with

Null.

On September 18, 2009, he interviewed Dr. Viera Scheibner, " arguably one

of the world's most respected scientists and scholars on vaccine medical

data....Her investigations uncover how the vaccine industrial complex

(and complicit government regulatory bodies produce) pseudo-science that

is fraught with inconsistencies, poorly designed studies, erroneous

interpretations, and conclusions that are patently false " - by design,

not chance.

She calls vaccinations " an illness industry, " causing a " pandemic (of)

degenerative diseases (and) behavioral problems. "

From her research and writings on vaccine science and history, she said:

" Ever since the turn of the (last) century, medical journals

published dozens and dozens of articles demonstrating that injecting

vaccines (can) cause anaphylaxis, meaning harmful, inappropriate

immunological responses, which is also called sensitization. (This)

increase(s) susceptibility to the disease which the vaccine is supposed

to prevent, and to a host of related and other unrelated infections. "

" We see it in vaccinated children within days, within two or three

weeks. (Most of them) develop runny noses, ear infections, pneumonitis,

(and) bronchiolitis. It is only a matter of degrees, which indicates

immuno-suppression, (not immunity). It indicates the opposite. So I

never use the word immunization because that is false advertising. It

implies that vaccines immunize, which they don't. The correct term is

either vaccination or sensitization. "

In addition, " Vaccines (can) damage internal organs, particularly the

pancreas, " so everyone vaccinated, including for seasonal flu, is

vulnerable to contracting severe " autoimmune diseases like diabetes, "

's Disease, Arthritis, Asthma, Guillian-Barre Syndrome,

Hepatitis, Lou Gehrig's Disease, Lupus, Multiple Sclerosis,

Osteoporosis, Polio, and dozens of others.

Some can kill. Others produce a lifetime of disability and pain because

autoimmune disease happens when the " body attacks itself, " or more

accurately " is attacked " by an unhealthy lifestyle, stress, and various

harmful ingestible substances; that is, toxins in drugs, food, air,

water, and other liquids. According to immunologist, Dr. Stoff,

human health is compromised four ways:

-- by poor nutrition;

-- man-made environmental toxins;

-- disease-causing organisms and their toxins; and

-- immune system trauma from factors like x-ray radiation and stress.

Other factors include a lack of sleep and exercise, smoking, heavy

alcohol consumption, and various excesses that throw the body out of

balance, making it susceptible to a host of debilitating illnesses.

Known Toxins in Seasonal Flu and Other Vaccines

Millions voluntarily take annual flu shots not knowing their harmful

ingredients. With variations by producer, they contain numerous

stabilizers, neutralizers, carrying agents, and preservatives, including:

-- 25 micrograms of mercury (thimerosal), a known neurotoxin; one

microgram is considered toxic; according to the NIH, " mercury and all of

its compounds are toxic, exposure to excessive levels can permanently

damage or fatally injure the brain and kidneys; " even " exposures to very

small amounts " can also cause " allergic reactions, neurological damage

and death; " it's also linked to autism;

-- aluminum hydroxide and phosphate, known to be linked to some

neurodegenerative diseases, including Alzheimer's disease; the Office of

Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) reports x-ray

evidence of pulmonary fibrosis among workers studied; it also reports

that patients undergoing long-term kidney dialysis develop speech

disorders, dementia, or convulsions;

-- formaldehyde, a known carcinogen according to the National

Cancer Institute; it's also linked to upper respiratory tract problems

and effects on lymphatic and hematopoietic systems (relating to human

blood cells);

-- gelatin, polysorbate 80 and resin - ingredients causing severe

allergic reactions;

-- ammonium sulfate, a suspected gastrointestinal, liver, and

respiratory toxicant and neurotoxicant;

-- sorbitol, a suspected gastrointestinal and liver toxicant;

-- phenoxyethanol (antifreeze), a suspected developmental and

reproductive toxicant;

-- beta-propiolactone, a known carcinogen and suspected

gastrointestinal, liver, respiratory, skin and sense organ toxicant;

-- gentamycin, an antibiotic;

-- triton X100, a strong detergent;

-- animal tissues and fluids, including potentially contaminated

horse blood, rabbit brain, dog kidney, monkey kidney, chick embryo,

chicken egg, duck egg, pig blood, and porcine (pig) protein/tissue;

-- calf and fetal bovine serum;

-- macerated cancer cells;

-- diploid cells from aborted fetal tissue; and/or

-- other ingredients varying by producer.

Contrary to industry and government agency advice, annual flu shots are

dangerous and ineffective. According to Croft Woodruff, president of the

EDTA Chelation Association of British Columbia:

" Statistically, you'd be more likely to avoid the flu if you took

nothing at all. So why are we subjected to the flu vaccine media blitz

each year? " In a word, profits assured annually as long as enough people

take them - for all vaccines (besides the enormous bonanza from the

Swine Flu vaccines), billions of dollars in annual revenues, according

to leading producer estimates.

On September 29, Wall Street Journal writers Rockoff and

Loftus explained that the industry believes vaccines:

" will become an increasingly important source of growth to replace

aging blockbusters that are poised to lose patent protection. Vaccine

sales are growing faster than sales of other prescription medicines and

are largely immune to the generic competition that is already cost drug

makers billions of dollars in revenues on their top-selling treatments.

Moreover, government agencies both in the US and around the world are

increasingly reliable buyers of vaccines as they seek to stockpile

medicines that could help protect the public in case of a major flu

outbreak. "

Or perhaps, in the case of Swine Flu, infect it as part of a sinister

depopulation scheme through involuntary male and/or female sterilization

and future deadly illnesses while rewarding producers with hundreds of

billions in profits from global inoculations over the next few years.

For what may be planned, it doesn't get any better than that. As a

result, the public is cautioned to ignore media and official hype and

stay safe by refusing all vaccines, especially the new Swine Flu ones

that may, in fact, be bioweapons.

More Disclaimers about Flu Vaccine Effectiveness and the Truth about

Their Dangers

First the worst news. Annual flu shots may induce one or more of the

above-mentioned annoying to life-threatening autoimmune diseases,

including severe allergies, diabetes, and the Guillan-Barre Syndrome

(GBS) nerve disorder that causes progressive muscle weakness, paralysis,

and at times death. They can also cause encephalitis, an acute

inflammation of the brain; various neurological disorders; and

thrombocytopenia, a serious blood disorder.

Now the bad news. Annual flu shots don't work, except to enhance

producer profits, which is why the industry, complicit regulatory

bodies, and the media tell unsuspecting people to take them.

Each year, government health agencies guess which viral strain(s) are

most worrisome. Usually they're wrong. For example, New York Times

writer Lawrence Altman headlined his January 15, 2004 article, " Vaccine

Is Said to Fail to Protect Against Flu Strain " in reporting that the CDC

said its most recent recommended flu vaccine had " no or low

effectiveness " against that season's Fujian threat, based on study

results from its first ever health providers survey. Other studies

report similar findings, and so do reliable scientists from their research.

The Lancet reported that a 2008 study on " immunocompetent elderly people

aged 65 - 94 years enrolled in Group Health (a health maintenance

organisation) during 2000, 2001, and 2002 " found that " influenza

vaccination was not associated with a reduced risk of community-acquired

pneumonia during the influenza season. " Influenza predisposes

individuals to contracting pneumonia.

In understated terms, the prestigious medical journal concluded that

" The effect of influenza vaccination on the risk of pneumonia in elderly

people during the influenza seasons might be less than previously

estimated. " Yet doctors keep recommending them based on misleading

industry and government information.

In October 2007, the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious

Diseases, National Institutes of Health reported on the " mortality

benefits of influenza vaccination in elderly people: an ongoing

controversy " and concluded:

" frailty selection bias and use of non-specific endpoints such as

all-cause mortality have led cohort studies to greatly exaggerate

vaccine benefits. The remaining evidence base is currently insufficient

to indicate the magnitude of the mortality benefit, if any, that elderly

people derive from the vaccination programme. "

On May 1, 2003, The New England Journal of Medicine reported on the

largest ever study to determine the effectiveness of pneumococcal

pneumonia vaccine inoculations - based on medical data for 47,365 people

aged 65 or older from 1998 - 2001. It found no significant association

between vaccination and a reduced pneumonia risk in concluding:

" alternative strategies are needed to prevent nonbacteremic

pneumonia, which is a more common manifestation of pneumococcal

infection in elderly persons. " In other words, flu shots don't work, so

why take them.

An October 2008 published study in the Archives of Pediatric &

Adolescent Medicine had similar conclusions based on doctor visits

during the two most recent flu seasons. It reported:

" In 2 seasons with suboptimal antigenic match between vaccines and

circulating strains, we could not demonstrate VE in preventing

influenza-related inpatient/ED or outpatient visits in children younger

than 5 years. Further study is needed during years with good vaccine match. "

In September 2008, the American Journal of Respiratory and Critical Care

Medicine reported that the Department of Public Health Sciences, School

of Public Health, University of Alberta concluded as follows from

" clinical, laboratory, and functional data " collected on 1,813 adults

" with community-acquired pneumonia admitted to six hospitals outside of

influenza season " in Alberta:

" mortality benefits of influenza vaccination " are " overestimated " even

though the population inoculated increased from 15% in 1980 to 65% in 2008.

In the October 2006 British Medical Journal, Dr. Tom Jefferson wrote

about " Influenza vaccination: policy versus evidence " and concluded:

" Evidence from systematic reviews shows that inactivated vaccines

have little or no effect on the effects measured. (In addition), Little

comparative evidence exists on the safety of these vaccines....The

optimistic and confident tone of some predictions of viral circulation

and the impact of inactivated vaccines, which are at odds with the

evidence, is striking. The reasons are probably complex and may involve

a messy blend of truth and conflicts of interest making it difficult to

separate factual disputes from value disputes. "

In other words, influenza vaccination programs are ineffective and

worthless. They're also dangerous.

In 2006, the Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews reported on an

Oxford University, Institute of Health Sciences examination of " Vaccines

for preventing influenza in healthy children " and concluded from the

results of 51 studies involving 263,987 subjects aged 23 months to six

years that vaccines are little more effective than placebos. It added that:

" If immunisation in children is to be recommended as a

public-health policy, large-scale studies assessing important outcomes

and directly comparing vaccine types are urgently needed. "

FDA-Approved Swine Flu (H1N1) Vaccines

On September 15, the FDA:

" announced today that it has approved four vaccines against the

2009 H1N1 influenza virus. The vaccines will be distributed nationally

after the initial lots become available, which is expected to be within

the next four weeks....Based on preliminary data from adults

participating in multiple clinical trials, the 2009 H1N1 vaccines induce

a robust immune response in most health adults eight to 10 days after a

single dose, as occurs with the seasonal influenza vaccine. "

The FDA warned that " People with severe or life-threatening allergies to

chicken eggs, or to any other substance in the vaccine, should not be

vaccinated. "

Approved US vaccines are produced by CSL Ltd., Novartis Vaccines and

Diagnostics Ltd., Sanofi Pasteur (a division of Sanofi-Aventis Group),

and AstraZeneca's MedImmune LLC. According to the FDA, " All four firms

manufacture the H1N1 vaccines using the same processes, which have a

long record of producing safe seasonal influenza vaccines. "

Meanwhile, other governments have placed large orders for Baxter's

CELVAPAN A/H1N1 vaccine, Novavax's VLP, and GlaxoKline PLC's

versions to assure all the major vaccine producers share in the enormous

profit bonanza.

Sanofi Pasteur's vaccine proved ineffective with one shot, and Medscape

Medical News reported that while it will have fewer side effects it may

not protect against the 2009 H1N1 strain.

Novartis' version contains its proprietary squalene adjuvant MF59,

linked to annoying to potentially deadly autoimmune and other diseases,

including paralysis, autism, Alzheimer's disease, and Gulf War Syndrome.

Glaxo's ASO3 poses the same risks and will be available in America

through CSL Ltd.'s vaccine.

Squalene in vaccines has been secretly used for years, but according to

Dr. Rima Laibow, Medical Director of the Natural Solutions Foundation:

" Never before has (it) been (officially) approved for use in a drug

in the United States. But once before, when it was allowed in certain

military vaccines, more than 60,000 soldiers were hospitalized (by what

became) known as 'Gulf War Syndrome.' (In Doe v. Rumsfeld, a) Federal

Court in 2004, forbade its involuntary use by United States troops. "

" This new (Swine Flu) vaccine has, literally, 1,000,000 time more

squalene than the experimental military vaccine, known as 'Vaccine A.'

The attempt to rush this dangerous vaccine into the bodies of the public

without safety testing is a violation of US law, regulation and medical

ethics and must be condemned. "

Glaxo (GSK) will distribute CSL Ltd.'s vaccine with its own proprietary

high potency squalene adjuvant MPL (monophosphoryl lipid A) system ASO3

that exponentially enhances its dangers as Dr. Laibow explained.

After being linked to Gulf War Syndrome, Army scientists concluded from

over two dozen post-war animal studies that nanodoses dangerously

compromise the human immune system and may also kill.

MedImmune says it FluMist is a " gentle nasal mist. It's a quick spray in

each nostril, one of the places where the flu virus enters the body.

(It) helps your body develop proteins called antibodies that help

protect you from the flu. "

Dr. Rima Laibow calls FluMist a " recipe for pandemic. (It) contains 3

live viruses. You shoot it up your nose and your immune system gets a

chance to make antibodies to three live, weakened viruses while the

manufacturer hopes against hope that one of these three actually causes

a disease this year....Of course, if you are immune compromised or go

near someone who is, you will get sick or infect them with the virus and

they can get the flu. "

Laibow and others also warn that Flu Mist risks potential brain damage,

making it an extremely hazardous drug. The nasal passage olfactory tract

is a direct pathway to the brain. Ingesting viruses through it risks

encephalitis, a viral-induced acute brain inflammation.

British geneticist and bilphysicist Dr. Mae-Wan and biologist Joe

Cummins add that:

" Vaccines can be dangerous, especially live, attenuated viral

vaccines or the new recombinant nucleic acid vaccines, that have the

potential to generate virulent viruses by recombination and the

recombinant nucleic acids could cause autoimmune diseases. "

According to Medimmune, " FluMist is a (nasal administered) vaccine

approved for the prevention of certain types of influenza disease in

children, adolescents, and adults 2 - 49 years of age, " except for:

-- children and adolescents regularly taking aspirin or products

containing it; or persons with certain:

-- sensitivities,

-- health problems,

-- illnesses,

-- malignancies,

-- immunodeficiencies,

-- nutritional deficiencies,

-- abnormalities,

-- allergies, or

-- infections - categories applying to the majority of the

population, including many in it unaware it means them.

MedImmune's product information states:

" Administration of Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine Live,

Intranasal, a live virus vaccine, to immunocompromised persons should be

based on careful consideration of potential benefits and risks. Safety

has not been established in individuals with underlying medical

conditions predisposing them to wild-type influenza infection

complications. "

" Appropriate medical treatment and supervision must be available to

manage possible anaphylactic (life-threatening allergic) reactions

following administration of the vaccine....Hypersensitivity, including

anaphylactic reaction, has been reported during post-marketing

experience with FluMist....Intranasal may not protect all individuals

receiving the vaccine. "

Each producer lists numerous adverse reactions to its vaccines. Those

MedImmune reported included:

-- " Congenital, familial and genetic disorder: Exacerbation of

symptoms of mitochondrial encephalomyopathy (Leigh syndrome);

-- Gastrointestinal disorders: Nausea, vomiting and diarrhea;

-- Immune system disorders: Hypersensitivity reactions (including

anaphylactic reaction, facial edema and urticaria);

-- Nervous system disorders: Guillain-Barre syndrome, Bell's Palsy;

-- Respiratory, thoracic and mediastinal disorders: Epistaxis; " and

-- " Skin and subcutaneous tissue disorders: Rash. "

The FDA has not approved nasal vaccine sprays for children under two,

adults over 49, or pregnant women. Product instructions also warn that:

" FluMist recipients should avoid close contact with immunocompromised

individuals for at least 21 days, " that should include health care

workers but it doesn't. It suggests the likelihood that the vaccine's

live virus will spread among immune-weakened hospital patients and

elsewhere through close contact with their providers.

In their article titled, Vaccines' Dark Inferno, Null and

Gale warn that:

" The vast majority of scientists, physicians, nurses and public

health educators' trust that the ingredients in a vaccine have been

individually and synergistically proven safe and effective. " So do most

people, even though commonly held beliefs are wrong, including by

professionals who should know better. Because they don't, their

patients' are endangered by the array of above toxins that in

combination with new ones can trigger " a pandemic of Vaccine Disease,

manifesting in myriad illnesses (including the new H1N1) dependent upon

each vaccinated person's genetic predisposition and the robustness of

(their) immune system(s to withstand) any epidemic threat posed by wild

infectious pathogens (that) could unfold in so-called developed,

hygienic society. "

Since most governments sacrifice human health for business profits, who

are the guardians to protect us from the coming pathogenic onslaught

that may weaken or destroy the immune systems of millions of

unsuspecting people, and likely sterilize and/or kill them. Something to

consider before submitting to dangerous vaccines that everyone has a

legal, ethical and for many a medical right to refuse.

http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va & aid=15536

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

" The Problem with Socialism is that eventually you

run out of Other People's Money. " --Margaret Thatcher

" Mistrust of Government is the Bedrock of American Patriotism "

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

[Guest guest]

IIRC this exact same method has been used successfully with other

vaccines. It's not as if it were something new. Check out how they work.

..

..

>

> Posted by: " Crystal " sweetnwright@...

> <mailto:sweetnwright@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20H1N1>

> sweetenloe1 <sweetenloe1>

>

>

> Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:01 pm (PDT)

>

>

>

> You are wrong. If you get the flumist you get the live virus and shedding

> will occur. The fact sheet says that you should avoid immune compromised

> people for 21 days after receiving the mist. How can the H1N1 flu not

> cause

> the H1N1 flu???

> CW

>

> -- Re: H1N1

>

> One point is that is was developed to ONLY work in the cooler temperatures

> of the nasal cavity. It does not live in the rest of the body. The OTHER

> Point is that attenuated means that the some of the DNA is altered to NOT

> cause the disease but to provoke the body to create antibodies against the

> virus. it can not cause the H1N1 flu.

[Guest guest]

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

> What is true is that people who get a regular flu shot are as much as

> twice as likely to catch the flu in any given year so if there were no

> flu shots given one year, death rates and flu incidences would likely drop.

Study links seasonal flu vaccine to increased risk for swine flu

Some 7,000 people took advantage of the free flu shots offered in Knox

County last weekend. But a new study suggests the vaccine could do more

harm than good.

Local health officials are reserving judgment for now.

" There's been some research done by some Canadian scientists and doctors

that might indicate that getting a seasonal flu shot will increase your

risk of getting H1N1 flu, " Dr. Martha Buchanan, Medical Director of the

Knox County Health Department said.

The report has prompted concern and confusion around the country, but it

may be a bit soon. It hasn't been published, and it has yet to go

through the rigorous review process.

" We like to see things repeated, we like to see things verified, we like

to really look at those things carefully and make sure it's a valid

conclusion, " Buchanan said.

Officials would also like to verify that it is a conclusion applicable

outside of Canada.

" We would want to start looking to see 'Are we seeing that in the United

States, or is it just something in that one study?' " Buchanan said.

So far the study has done little more than add to the confusion over the

flu.

" Once it gets published and our experts can look at it, I'm sure they

will. But we do spend a lot of our time stomping out myths, " Buchanan said.

The health department still expects the first doses of H1N1 flu vaccine

to be available starting next month.

http://www.wbir.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=100516 & catid=2

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

" The Problem with Socialism is that eventually you

run out of Other People's Money. " --Margaret Thatcher

" Mistrust of Government is the Bedrock of American Patriotism "

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

I'm sorry. That just doesn't make sense. It's giving the body antibodies, which

make

our abiity to fight an illness greater not lesser.

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

> What is true is that people who get a regular flu shot are as much as

> twice as likely to catch the flu in any given year so if there were no

> flu shots given one year, death rates and flu incidences would likely drop.

Study links seasonal flu vaccine to increased risk for swine flu

Some 7,000 people took advantage of the free flu shots offered in Knox

County last weekend. But a new study suggests the vaccine could do more

harm than good.

Local health officials are reserving judgment for now.

" There's been some research done by some Canadian scientists and doctors

that might indicate that getting a seasonal flu shot will increase your

risk of getting H1N1 flu, " Dr. Martha Buchanan, Medical Director of the

Knox County Health Department said.

The report has prompted concern and confusion around the country, but it

may be a bit soon. It hasn't been published, and it has yet to go

through the rigorous review process.

" We like to see things repeated, we like to see things verified, we like

to really look at those things carefully and make sure it's a valid

conclusion, " Buchanan said.

Officials would also like to verify that it is a conclusion applicable

outside of Canada.

" We would want to start looking to see 'Are we seeing that in the United

States, or is it just something in that one study?' " Buchanan said.

So far the study has done little more than add to the confusion over the

flu.

" Once it gets published and our experts can look at it, I'm sure they

will. But we do spend a lot of our time stomping out myths, " Buchanan said.

The health department still expects the first doses of H1N1 flu vaccine

to be available starting next month.

http://www.wbir.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=100516 & catid=2

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

" The Problem with Socialism is that eventually you

run out of Other People's Money. " --Margaret Thatcher

" Mistrust of Government is the Bedrock of American Patriotism "

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

The worst flu I ever had I got right after getting a flu shot. That was my

first and last flu shot.

Now if I feel something coming on I take 2,000 to 3,000 mgs of Vitamin C every 2

hours for a day (or two depending) and I don't get sick.

Terry

[Guest guest]

According to Dr. Mercola, excerpted from

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/10/24/Too-Much-Aspirin-C\

aused-1918-Flu-Deaths.aspx -

What Medication May be Contributing to " Flu " Deaths in 2009?

In 1918, it was aspirin. Today it's Tamiflu that is being passed out like

candy to nearly anyone with flu-like symptoms.

Serious side effects of Tamiflu include convulsions, delirium or delusions,

and 14 deaths in children and teens have been reported as a result of

neuropsychiatric problems and brain infections. Japan actually banned Tamiflu

for children in 2007 because of the steep risks.

It was also around this time that the U.S. FDA began reviewing reports of

abnormal behavior and other brain effects in more than 1,800 children who had

taken Tamiflu.

The drug is being so widely overused that it has now contaminated rivers

downstream of sewage-treatment facilities as a result of people excreting it in

their urine!

Researchers are quite concerned that birds exposed to these waterborne

residues could develop and spread drug-resistant strains of various types of

flu, showing that once again the risks of overdoing any type of drug treatment

can be steep.

I have to add here, too, that all these risks come with very limited benefits,

as Tamiflu can only reduce the duration of your flu symptoms by 1 to 1.5 days,

according to official data!

What Else Can We Learn from 1918?

The treatment being offered in 1918, aspirin, may have ended up killing a

significant number of people. Aside from Tamiflu, what " treatment " is being

offered for the swine flu pandemic today?

The H1N1 vaccine.

Health officials everywhere are now recommending each man, woman and child

get as many as four flu shots this season; two doses for the swine flu, and one

or two doses for the seasonal flu, depending on whether you've ever had a flu

shot before.

Is it really prudent to mass-administer an untested swine flu vaccine along

with a seasonal flu vaccine that may increase your chances of contracting the

swine flu?

Fortunately, the information train is working and we are getting the word

out. Nearly two-thirds of 1,500 parents who responded to a Consumer Reports poll

said that they'd either wait or refuse the vaccine for their children.

In certain states, however, that " choice " no longer exists. New York, for

instance, has recently mandated that all health-care workers be vaccinated

against both seasonal and H1N1 flu this year -- or face possible termination. If

you fall into this category, please read What to Do if You are Forced to Take a

Swine Flu Shot.

In 1918, whether people died from aspirin overdose, a secondary bacterial

infection or some other currently unknown cause, and today during the swine flu

" pandemic, " what is required or responsible for the actual infection to take

hold is a dysfunctional immune system.

If you are healthy you can have enormous exposure to infectious agents and

you simply will NOT get sick. A vaccine is simply not the solution . a healthy

immune system is.

So this year if you want to learn from 1918 and avoid the flu without

resorting to dangerous drugs and vaccines, please review my previous article

Avoid Flu Shots With the One Vitamin that Will Stop Flu in Its Tracks.

[Guest guest]

Just to let you know that it is impossible to get the flu from the vaccine.

-- Re: H1N1

The worst flu I ever had I got right after getting a flu shot. That was my

first and last flu shot.

Now if I feel something coming on I take 2,000 to 3,000 mgs of Vitamin C

every 2 hours for a day (or two depending) and I don't get sick.

Terry

[Guest guest]

www.theflucase.com

www.fluscam.com

no way hosay!

ajd

[Guest guest]

Just to let you know that it is impossible to get the flu from the vaccine.

So within a couple of days of getting a flu shot I get the flu worse than I've

ever had the flu in my life and it lasted 2 weeks....... Sorry, no one will

ever convince me it didn't come from the shot.

[Guest guest]

There is something called " hot lots " where the virus was not completely

inactivated and the number of people getting the flu from the vaccine

exceeds a certain threshold. These are never publicly reported and

cause flu incidence.

Also:

The American Flu Charade

http://lewrockwell.com/sardi/sardi124.html

+++begin quote+++

Nasal vaccines will accelerate spread of the flu

The first flu vaccines in use will be nasally-administered Flumist®

which utilizes " live " viruses. Flumist®-vaccinated individuals will shed

viruses for 5 days following inoculation and are likely to spread the

virus to family members. This will predictably accelerate infection

rates. Look for health authorities to liken an upsurge in flu cases to

the late-season return of the 1918 Spanish flu rather than viral

shedding from the nasal-instilled vaccine.

It is not difficult to see how rapidly the flu will spread with

Flumist®. For example, breast-feeding infants are at risk for flu

infection should their mothers receive Flumist®. Older siblings in grade

school are likely to be inoculated with Flumist® and bring the virus

home and spread it to their mothers who are breast-feeding their infant

children.

Young grade school students are likely to be administered nasal Flumist

and subject senior-aged teachers, who are at higher risk for flu-related

mortality, to an avoidable risk.

Individuals considered high-risk, such as asthmatics and individuals

taking immune-suppressing drugs, should also avoid contact with

individuals who receive Flumist®. Any individual receiving Flumist®

should not visit a hospitalized patient within 5 days of inoculation.

But hospitals post no warning about this.

The Flumist® is not recommended for adults over age 50, and senior

adults living in a home with others who have received Flumist® are at

greater risk to become infected, though no warning is issued over this.

Vaccines unapproved for the very young

According to package inserts, none of the current vaccines approved by

the FDA have been tested for use among pregnant females or in children

below the age of 2 for Medimmune Flumist®, or for injectable vaccines,

not below age 18 for CSL (Australia) vaccine; not below age 4 for

Novartis (UK-USA) vaccine; not below 6 months of age for Sanofi Pasteur

(France) vaccine. However, these vaccines are being widely promoted for

use among pregnant women and very young infants.

+++end quote++

Steve

Nancie Barnett wrote:

> Just to let you know that it is impossible to get the flu from the vaccine.

>

> -- Re: H1N1

>

> The worst flu I ever had I got right after getting a flu shot. That was my

> first and last flu shot.

>

> Now if I feel something coming on I take 2,000 to 3,000 mgs of Vitamin C

> every 2 hours for a day (or two depending) and I don't get sick.

>

> Terry

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

" The Problem with Socialism is that eventually you

run out of Other People's Money. " --Margaret Thatcher

" Mistrust of Government is the Bedrock of American Patriotism "

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

[Guest guest]

wrote:

> Just to let you know that it is impossible to get the flu from the vaccine.

TerryW replied:

> So within a couple of days of getting a flu shot I get the flu worse than I've

ever had the flu in my life and it lasted 2 weeks....... Sorry, no one will

ever convince me it didn't come from the shot.

It can be a " hot lot " where the virus was not completely inactivated.

People infected by hot lots are never informed. Congress has been

influenced to provide legal immunity to vaccine makers so even if you

were informed of the vaccine caused infection, you would have no legal

recourse against the vaccine makers.

No one should have legal immunity as that decreases the business case to

provide safe well tested products as a protection against legal

repercussions.

Special " laws " and regulation gets in the way of effective markets.

Greed produces more goods and services driving prices down and quality

up and the fear of loss from bad products drives quality up to prevent

that loss. Laws/regulations get in the way of quality improvements and

price improvements.

" Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will

do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone. "

- Maynard Keynes

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

" The Problem with Socialism is that eventually you

run out of Other People's Money. " --Margaret Thatcher

" Mistrust of Government is the Bedrock of American Patriotism "

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

[Guest guest]

>

> As far as I know, I've never gotten a flu shot and certainly not since I

> was old enough to have have remembered. I have no intension of ever

> getting one either.

Wow, makes sense to me Steve.

Betty

> In the past twenty years, their have been two years when the flu shot

> " guess " of viral mixes was completely wrong and yet, flu incidences and

> deaths didn't increase those two years even though the flu shot was

> totally and completely worthless on those two occasions.

>

> What is true is that people who get a regular flu shot are as much as

> twice as likely to catch the flu in any given year so if there were no

> flu shots given one year, death rates and flu incidences would likely drop.

>

> --

>

> Steve - dudescholar4@...

>

>

[Guest guest]

I agree. Yet I have a friend who swears she got the flu from the vaccine many

years ago.

Last year, when she again did not take the flu shot she developed pneumonia.

Then she got the shot for pneumonia. Her doctor also told her to take the flu

shot. I'm not sure if she did.

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

From: Nancie Barnett <deifspirit@...>

Subject: Re: Re: H1N1

hypothyroidism

Date: Saturday, October 24, 2009, 12:15 AM

Just to let you know that it is impossible to get the flu from the vaccine.

-- Re: H1N1

  The worst flu I ever had I got right after getting a flu shot. That was my

first and last flu shot.

Now if I feel something coming on I take 2,000 to 3,000 mgs of Vitamin C

every 2 hours for a day (or two depending) and I don't get sick.

Terry

[Guest guest]

Nancie what is the incubation time for flu?

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

From: TerryW <blazingsaddles@...>

Subject: Re: H1N1

hypothyroidism

Date: Saturday, October 24, 2009, 2:43 AM

Just to let you know that it is impossible to get the flu from the vaccine.

So within a couple of days of getting a flu shot I get the flu worse than I've

ever had the flu in my life and it lasted 2 weeks.......  Sorry, no one will

ever convince me it didn't come from the shot.