Guest guest Posted January 4, 2010 Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 i am sure there are more but the only one i can think of is that i was told amoxicillin does. On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 5:39 PM, Shirley Bell <shirleyb121101@...>wrote: > > > Is there any known pill form that will cross the blood/brain barrier? > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2010 Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 A lot of antibiotics slide right through the BBB quite nicely. First, of the penicillins, Bicillin and Amoxicillin will do it -- especially when there's inflammed tissue. However, they also pass out again very quickly unless you're doing IVs or dosing very frequently with orals. The tetracyclines can also work well. Doxy will do it only at high doses; later generations (azithromycin, clarithromycin, minocycline, etc.) will get there more reliably at lower doses. Fluoroquinolones will generally cross, too: ofloxacin, sparfloxacin, levofloxacin, grepafloxacin....didn't see anything specific about Levaquin or Plaquenil, though, and those are the two most often used by LLMDs. Many of us take sulfa drugs for cysts. Flagyl, Tinidazole, and Bactrim will cross the BBB. Early cephalosporins wouldn't cross, but later generations do: ceftin, cefdinir, etc. etc. etc. Same deal with ethrythromycins -- the later generation ones like vancomycin will cross. Finally, Rifampin does it quite well. I'm sure there are others, but these are the Lyme-related ones I could come up with. As you can see, there are plenty to choose from. Sara > On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 5:39 PM, Shirley Bell <shirleyb121101@...>wrote: > >> >> >> Is there any known pill form that will cross the blood/brain barrier? >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2010 Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 Wow, Sara! Thanks so much for your quick response. I'm pleasantly surprised to see how many pill forms of medications will cross the blood/brain barrier. Are there any that will take the place, or closely take the place, of IV Rocephin? The insurance companies are sometimes a real bear about the IV stuff, plus I'd much rather take a pill if possible. Thanks you. Shirley Bell ________________________________ From: Sara <srobinson@...> Sent: Mon, January 4, 2010 11:49:16 PM Subject: Re: [ ] Blood/Brain Barrier  A lot of antibiotics slide right through the BBB quite nicely. First, of the penicillins, Bicillin and Amoxicillin will do it -- especially when there's inflammed tissue. However, they also pass out again very quickly unless you're doing IVs or dosing very frequently with orals. The tetracyclines can also work well. Doxy will do it only at high doses; later generations (azithromycin, clarithromycin, minocycline, etc.) will get there more reliably at lower doses. Fluoroquinolones will generally cross, too: ofloxacin, sparfloxacin, levofloxacin, grepafloxacin. ...didn't see anything specific about Levaquin or Plaquenil, though, and those are the two most often used by LLMDs. Many of us take sulfa drugs for cysts. Flagyl, Tinidazole, and Bactrim will cross the BBB. Early cephalosporins wouldn't cross, but later generations do: ceftin, cefdinir, etc. etc. etc. Same deal with ethrythromycins -- the later generation ones like vancomycin will cross. Finally, Rifampin does it quite well. I'm sure there are others, but these are the Lyme-related ones I could come up with. As you can see, there are plenty to choose from. Sara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2010 Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 The whole issue of whether orals or IVs are more effective hasn't been settled among LLMDs. My doctor told me that, in the absence of studies, it seems to be a matter of regional style: docs in the east seem to go straight to IVs, while those in the west will generally reach for orals first. His own preference is to try at least a year or two of orals to start, because his experience has been that a three-drug combo of orals will reliably do the job for a solid majority of his patients. For the minority that doesn't respond, he'll then go to IVs. Given the huge expense, risk and hassle of IV drugs and PICC lines -- not to mention the fact that insurance companies push back a lot harder against paying for IV drugs than they do orals -- it makes sense to try the orals first. Furthermore, someone who's already done 18-24 months of orals is likely to have beat back the infection to the point where the herxing won't be nearly as severe when they finally do start IV treatment. Since my doctor worries deeply about his patients' herx experience, I think this factors in largely for him. This line of reasoning suggests that yes, orals can be extremely effective at eliminating Lyme. For most people, they will deliver similar results to IV rocephin if taken for a long enough period. And if it doesn't work after a couple years, IV drugs are still out there as your plan B. Sara On Jan 5, 2010, at 9:59 01AM, Shirley Bell wrote: > Wow, Sara! Thanks so much for your quick response. I'm pleasantly surprised to see how many pill forms of medications will cross the blood/brain barrier. Are there any that will take the place, or closely take the place, of IV Rocephin? The insurance companies are sometimes a real bear about the IV stuff, plus I'd much rather take a pill if possible. Thanks you. Shirley Bell > > From: Sara <srobinson@...> > > Sent: Mon, January 4, 2010 11:49:16 PM > Subject: Re: [ ] Blood/Brain Barrier > > > A lot of antibiotics slide right through the BBB quite nicely. > > First, of the penicillins, Bicillin and Amoxicillin will do it -- especially when there's inflammed tissue. However, they also pass out again very quickly unless you're doing IVs or dosing very frequently with orals. > > The tetracyclines can also work well. Doxy will do it only at high doses; later generations (azithromycin, clarithromycin, minocycline, etc.) will get there more reliably at lower doses. > > Fluoroquinolones will generally cross, too: ofloxacin, sparfloxacin, levofloxacin, grepafloxacin. ...didn't see anything specific about Levaquin or Plaquenil, though, and those are the two most often used by LLMDs. > > Many of us take sulfa drugs for cysts. Flagyl, Tinidazole, and Bactrim will cross the BBB. > > Early cephalosporins wouldn't cross, but later generations do: ceftin, cefdinir, etc. etc. etc. Same deal with ethrythromycins -- the later generation ones like vancomycin will cross. > > Finally, Rifampin does it quite well. > > I'm sure there are others, but these are the Lyme-related ones I could come up with. As you can see, there are plenty to choose from. > > Sara > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Lyme Disease News continually updated from thousands of sources around the > net: http://www.topix.net/health/lyme-disease > > MedWorm: The latest items on: Lyme Disease > http://tinyurl.com/23dgy8 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2010 Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 This may be a dumb question but this is all quite new to me. What does herx mean? Â > Wow, Sara! Thanks so much for your quick response. I'm pleasantly surprised to see how many pill forms of medications will cross the blood/brain barrier. Are there any that will take the place, or closely take the place, of IV Rocephin? The insurance companies are sometimes a real bear about the IV stuff, plus I'd much rather take a pill if possible. Thanks you. Shirley Bell > > From: Sara <srobinson@cosmiccow grrl.com> > @group s.com > Sent: Mon, January 4, 2010 11:49:16 PM > Subject: Re: [ ] Blood/Brain Barrier > > > A lot of antibiotics slide right through the BBB quite nicely. > > First, of the penicillins, Bicillin and Amoxicillin will do it -- especially when there's inflammed tissue. However, they also pass out again very quickly unless you're doing IVs or dosing very frequently with orals. > > The tetracyclines can also work well. Doxy will do it only at high doses; later generations (azithromycin, clarithromycin, minocycline, etc.) will get there more reliably at lower doses. > > Fluoroquinolones will generally cross, too: ofloxacin, sparfloxacin, levofloxacin, grepafloxacin. ...didn't see anything specific about Levaquin or Plaquenil, though, and those are the two most often used by LLMDs. > > Many of us take sulfa drugs for cysts. Flagyl, Tinidazole, and Bactrim will cross the BBB. > > Early cephalosporins wouldn't cross, but later generations do: ceftin, cefdinir, etc. etc. etc. Same deal with ethrythromycins -- the later generation ones like vancomycin will cross. > > Finally, Rifampin does it quite well. > > I'm sure there are others, but these are the Lyme-related ones I could come up with. As you can see, there are plenty to choose from. > > Sara > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2010 Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 Jarisch-Herxhiemer reaction, first identified in syphilis patients who were treated with antibiotics. (Syphilis is Lyme's closest bacterial relative.) It's a die-off reaction that happens when you're taking antibiotics that are actually working to kill off the bugs. Their rotting little corpses pile up in your tissues and bloodstream, throwing off toxins. The also stimulate the immune system to produce cytokines, which are the enzymes that make you feel like crap when you have the flu. So a herx feels a lot like a toxic, yucky flu. How to manage herx is a major topic of conversation around here. Having one is a great sign that the drugs are working; but it's no fun while it's happening. Sara On Jan 5, 2010, at 5:40 48PM, Chiaravalloti wrote: > This may be a dumb question but this is all quite new to me. What does herx mean? > > > > > >> Wow, Sara! Thanks so much for your quick response. I'm pleasantly surprised to see how many pill forms of medications will cross the blood/brain barrier. Are there any that will take the place, or closely take the place, of IV Rocephin? The insurance companies are sometimes a real bear about the IV stuff, plus I'd much rather take a pill if possible. Thanks you. Shirley Bell >> > >> From: Sara <srobinson@cosmiccow grrl.com> >> @group s.com >> Sent: Mon, January 4, 2010 11:49:16 PM >> Subject: Re: [ ] Blood/Brain Barrier >> >> >> A lot of antibiotics slide right through the BBB quite nicely. >> >> First, of the penicillins, Bicillin and Amoxicillin will do it -- especially when there's inflammed tissue. However, they also pass out again very quickly unless you're doing IVs or dosing very frequently with orals. >> >> The tetracyclines can also work well. Doxy will do it only at high doses; later generations (azithromycin, clarithromycin, minocycline, etc.) will get there more reliably at lower doses. >> >> Fluoroquinolones will generally cross, too: ofloxacin, sparfloxacin, levofloxacin, grepafloxacin. ...didn't see anything specific about Levaquin or Plaquenil, though, and those are the two most often used by LLMDs. >> >> Many of us take sulfa drugs for cysts. Flagyl, Tinidazole, and Bactrim will cross the BBB. >> >> Early cephalosporins wouldn't cross, but later generations do: ceftin, cefdinir, etc. etc. etc. Same deal with ethrythromycins -- the later generation ones like vancomycin will cross. >> >> Finally, Rifampin does it quite well. >> >> I'm sure there are others, but these are the Lyme-related ones I could come up with. As you can see, there are plenty to choose from. >> >> Sara >> > >> >> > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2010 Report Share Posted January 6, 2010 hey patty im confused too..about the blood brain barrier...cause some say they do and some say they dont....my lyme doc says amox crosses blood brain barrier...what are your symptoms if its affecting your brain??? cynthia From: McDermott <pattymcd@...> Subject: [ ] Blood/Brain Barrier Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 12:53 PM Â Hi Sara, How do you know that the antibiotics you've listed below pass through Hi Sara, How do you know that the antibiotics you've listed below pass through the Blood Brain Barrier? I've been on Amoxicillin 3gr/day and Biaxin 500mg/day, pulsing, and also Tinidizole 250mg/day, for over 4 years and a recent MRI and specialized EEG's, show that the Lyme is badly affecting my brain - slowing it down. My doctor said that none of the orals I've been taking penetrate the BBB, and she put me on IV in October. If these antibiotics do, in fact, penetrate the BBB, I need to educate her with documented information. Can you supply such information? Thanks! Patty > From: Sara < srobinson@cosmiccow grrl.com > > @group s.com > Sent: Mon, January 4, 2010 11:49:16 PM > Subject: Re: [ ] Blood/Brain Barrier > > > A lot of antibiotics slide right through the BBB quite nicely. > > First, of the penicillins, Bicillin and Amoxicillin will do it -- especially when there's inflammed tissue. However, they also pass out again very quickly unless you're doing IVs or dosing very frequently with orals. > > The tetracyclines can also work well. Doxy will do it only at high doses; later generations (azithromycin, clarithromycin, minocycline, etc.) will get there more reliably at lower doses. > > Fluoroquinolones will generally cross, too: ofloxacin, sparfloxacin, levofloxacin, grepafloxacin. ...didn't see anything specific about Levaquin or Plaquenil, though, and those are the two most often used by LLMDs. > > Many of us take sulfa drugs for cysts. Flagyl, Tinidazole, and Bactrim will cross the BBB. > > Early cephalosporins wouldn't cross, but later generations do: ceftin, cefdinir, etc. etc. etc. Same deal with ethrythromycins -- the later generation ones like vancomycin will cross. > > Finally, Rifampin does it quite well. > > I'm sure there are others, but these are the Lyme-related ones I could come up with. As you can see, there are plenty to choose from. > > Sara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2010 Report Share Posted January 6, 2010 Here: <http://www.utmb.edu/otoref/grnds/Microbiology-2004-0218/Microbiology-2004-0211.\ htm> and here: <http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/032580.html> Sara On Jan 6, 2010, at 9:53 27AM, McDermott wrote: > Hi Sara, How do you know that the antibiotics you've listed below pass through Hi Sara, How do you know that the antibiotics you've listed below pass through the Blood Brain Barrier? > I've been on Amoxicillin 3gr/day and Biaxin 500mg/day, pulsing, and also Tinidizole 250mg/day, for over 4 years and a recent MRI and specialized EEG's, show that the Lyme is badly affecting my brain - slowing it down. My doctor said that none of the orals I've been taking penetrate the BBB, and she put me on IV in October. If these antibiotics do, in fact, penetrate the BBB, I need to educate her with documented information. Can you supply such information? > > Thanks! > Patty > >> From: Sara < srobinson@... > >> >> Sent: Mon, January 4, 2010 11:49:16 PM >> Subject: Re: [ ] Blood/Brain Barrier >> >> >> A lot of antibiotics slide right through the BBB quite nicely. >> >> First, of the penicillins, Bicillin and Amoxicillin will do it -- especially when there's inflammed tissue. However, they also pass out again very quickly unless you're doing IVs or dosing very frequently with orals. >> >> The tetracyclines can also work well. Doxy will do it only at high doses; later generations (azithromycin, clarithromycin, minocycline, etc.) will get there more reliably at lower doses. >> >> Fluoroquinolones will generally cross, too: ofloxacin, sparfloxacin, levofloxacin, grepafloxacin. ...didn't see anything specific about Levaquin or Plaquenil, though, and those are the two most often used by LLMDs. >> >> Many of us take sulfa drugs for cysts. Flagyl, Tinidazole, and Bactrim will cross the BBB. >> >> Early cephalosporins wouldn't cross, but later generations do: ceftin, cefdinir, etc. etc. etc. Same deal with ethrythromycins -- the later generation ones like vancomycin will cross. >> >> Finally, Rifampin does it quite well. >> >> I'm sure there are others, but these are the Lyme-related ones I could come up with. As you can see, there are plenty to choose from. >> >> Sara > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.