Re: The tragic comedy and the right people to talk to..

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/17/2005 10:24:22 PM, yhoolyme@... writes:

>Now here's the problem. If you want to find someone to show you how to

>get well, they must have gone the distance. That is, you want to find

>someone who has actually had Lyme and no longer has it! NOTICE: They are

>not on this listserve... People who get well from Lyme don't spend time

>on listserves like this because, they are out living life they way they

>did before they contracted the disease! The need to share in their life

>and to be heard by others who can understand their plight is gone.

Dear ,

I don't agree with the above statement. I am still here trying to help. My

family and I had chronic third stage neuro Lyme from 1989-1995, having been

through numerous courses of oral and intravenous antibiotics, only getting

temporary improvement and then sliding back down to rock bottom. It was like

getting sucked into a whirlpool of sickness. I was the caretaker of my

husband,

my son and my daughter. My children were 8 and 11 and both hospitalized

together the first time around. My daughter couldn't walk and was wheelchair

bound

for about seven months, later having heart involvement, and my son was

limping and had serious cognitive problems. I had Bells Palsy and joint

involvement

and my husband had Lyme encephalitis, being misdiagnosed as major depression

and sat in a mental hospital for three months. It was hellish and I was

dealing with the death of my father during this time as well. The only time we

felt hopeful that we were going to have some serious improvement with our Lyme

symptoms was when we were admitted to the hospital.

Finally, I was introduced to Sunrider Herbal Food by a dear friend of mine

who went out to California and accidentally found out about this wonderful way

to rebuild our bodies and immune systems. Her cousin was doing Sunrider and

mixed her up an herbal fruit smoothy and she said she felt wonderful after

drinking it. She was really concerned about us and told me that we have to

try

it. She was sure it would help. Skeptical as I was, I started making herbal

smoothies as she taught me to and I began to experience more energy and a

sense of well being. I began to incorporate it into my family's diet and over a

period of months, we were antibiotic free and looking and feeling so much

better.

It is now 10 years later and we haven't been on a Lyme antibiotic for that

length of time. My children are grown and healthy young adults living on their

own in NYC with successful careers. It is a blessing that Sunrider has given

us back our lives.

Yes, we are living active normal lives with active " normal " people, but I

still return to this list because I want to continue to educate people who are

stuck in " medical mode " and running in circles as we were. Yes, there is an

alternative. After regaining my health, I became an herbal food and nutritional

consultant for this company and have helped many people with Lyme and other

health problems regain their health. I teach people how to eat this food, how

to prepare it (very simple) and how and why it works. It is based on the

theory of regeneration from ancient China that " when the body receives proper

concentrated nourishment, it will regenerate. " Not only does it regenerate the

five systems of the body, but it shows through a glowing and young complexion

that people notice. I am 54 years old and my skin is as young and smooth as any

woman in her 30's. That is because this food is so concentrated, and

Sunrider is the only company that makes it. The skin care from their Kandesn

line is

better than anything you can purchase in the stores because it is made from

flowers and allows your skin to breathe, which means the body can cleanse

through the pores. It is of course completely animal free.

I don't really have a desire to speak with people who had Lyme and are well

now because they have probably found their own holistic route. They didn't get

that way from antibiotics, which only keep weakening the immune system and

make the drug manufacturers rich (and the doctors too because they get a

kickback from the drug companies every time we fill their prescription). I do,

however, have an obligation to the Lyme community to help them find the right

path

back to good health as my dear friend helped me and my family to live life

again.

I have a website below and recommend the Starter Pack II for $140 which gives

a nice variety of the products more geared to nourishing, balancing and

cleansing the body, enough to try for a month or so and see how you feel. These

herbal products are food grade herbs picked in the best parts of the world, as

opposed to the medicinal herbs found in a healthfood store, which can be

dangerous, like pharmaceutical drugs. Please feel free to e-mail me privately

with

any questions, because I am truly here to help and pay it forward so that

each of you can spread the word as well.

Sue Rauch

Herbal Food and Nutritional Consultant

my.sunrider.com/susanrauch

P.S. I thought your e-mail was so well-written and I agreed with everything

you said about the drug companies and the " Industry of disease. "

[Guest guest]

gary I was confuse by your post and think that maybe you are trying to cut to

the chase and that is not possible...everyone reacts differantly to differant

strains....you sound like you may be at your witts end with lyme but I can

assure you that you will get better if you get the right doctors and allow your

nervous system to heal...this takes a long time so stop trying to rush it...I go

out everyday and work and above all have my life back so stop the negativity and

be positive as you WILL get better.....

eric

Blier <yhoolyme@...> wrote:

There is a tragic comedy those who suffer should know about... so I'll go on a

bit and I hope this gives you something to think about.

With respect to traditional medicine and the suffering constituents... By way

of analogy, the entire medical system exists within an ocean. This ocean is

controlled by the drug companies and governed by the free enterprise system,

(which I love) but there is an inherent conflict of interest which must be

acknowledged. The ocean doesn't want anyone to find the shore upon which there

is true cure. Cure's shut off cash flow.

How much money has been made this year in the treatment of Polio? None!

Polio has been cured! The CEO of Pfizer reported several months ago that they

hope to render cancer a " manageable, long term, chronic disease. " (look it up)

They have no goals to cure cancer because annuity is the goal of profit seeking

companies whose first obligation is to reward the investors for investing in

their companies. And this is morally correct until there is a conflict with the

health of the suffering (at least in my view) So, there it its. We're not

talking about conspiracies here, just a basic conflict of interest. So the drug

companies, which fund all the scientific research, don't want cures because they

simply don't want to put themselves out of business. Apart from love of

humanity, I can't blame them at all.

There is no one watching out for you - so it better be you, if you want to get

well.

Now this brings us to the doctors. Some doctors are well intentioned. They

get creative in their efforts to help the suffering. Creativity in medicine is

viewed as unsafe medical practice. That's why so many of your creative sorts in

medicine are having to fight for their right to practice against their peers and

the AMA. I imagine most doctors think twice before becoming creative - even

when it called for - for that very reason. If a doctor has student loans, kids

to send to college or a spouse to keep sheltered and fed, only an imprudent

individual wouldn't look twice at this. The " good ones " go to court.

This, unfortunately, is a part of the landscape - like it or not, so

understand what you are up against.

Now here's the tragedy. When the cries of the suffering get loud enough,

caring people begin to do fundraisers. So, we have the MS walk, or the Jimmy

Fund trying to raise cash for who? The same people who want annuity. THAT'S

the tragedy. Money is being sent to the very people who don't want cures to

happen because they saw what happened when Polio was cured. Can't happen?

Think Dana Farber wants to cure cancer? Go find out. All you need to do is

google or " " Best Cancer and find his Mom's website to find out that

Dana Farber would not let the Canadian remedy for cancer into this country that

cured their 13 year old son. Money Money Money....

So, what some people do is turn to alternative medicine and they wind up on

groups like this one talking to others to find herbs, machines and other

remedies and - they are wise to do so. They are at least looking out for

themselves. Kudos! They are coming out of the ether. Taking charge of their

health destinies!

Now here's the problem. If you want to find someone to show you how to get

well, they must have gone the distance. That is, you want to find someone who

has actually had Lyme and no longer has it! NOTICE: They are not on this

listserve... People who get well from Lyme don't spend time on listserves like

this because, they are out living life they way they did before they contracted

the disease! The need to share in their life and to be heard by others who can

understand their plight is gone.

If you want to get Lyme out of your life, you must find people who can show

you the way. I'm talking about people who no longer have Lyme after rounds of

antibiotics failed to restore their health... not people for whom the

antibiotics fixed their symptoms. If anyone sees the logic in this post and

would like to email or talk with people who had Lyme and just don't have it

anymore, or are early on in the process of symptom reduction..great... you can

email me privately at gnormy@... You will be put in contact with EX lyme

sufferers. Your hope and your source of advice should be those who have

suffered as you have, and no longer suffer. Plain and simple.

This, unfortunately, about sums it up.

Regards,

[Guest guest]

Dear

I dont post on here often but i can't not regarding your post..

" Now here's the problem. If you want to find someone to show you how

to get

well, they must have gone the distance. That is, you want to find

someone who

has actually had Lyme and no longer has it! NOTICE: They are not on

this

listserve... People who get well from Lyme don't spend time on

listserves like

this because, they are out living life they way they did before they

contracted

the disease! The need to share in their life and to be heard by

others who can

understand their plight is gone "

If you think for one second that i am going to let this disease come

into my life distroy my career, distress my family , cause me

phycological symptoms that could end my life, cause me to be

immobile, and then be cured and walk away and leave others to drown

then im sorry but you have an odd judgement of people.

What you have written is in other words saying " you are on your own

in your struggle and coming on any forum is nothing but inflicting

yourself with other peoples negative struggles to get better "

Again you are highly mistaken as with out coming on these forums i

would not even know,.. what i was suffering from.

I see conversations of health and herb products all day, and i also

see an individuals choice to try such things, have you ever laid

down for hours on eneds that turn into days and then weeks.. with no

help.

So what if some of these products may not help some people, the fact

that you may be that 1 in a million it does is enough to keep you

going.

I hope i have alos got my point across.

Sorry to anyone else if this seems like a rant, i found these

comments quiet upsetting.

Jules

>

>

> There is a tragic comedy those who suffer should know about... so

I'll go on a bit and I hope this gives you something to think about.

>

> With respect to traditional medicine and the suffering

constituents... By way of analogy, the entire medical system exists

within an ocean. This ocean is controlled by the drug companies and

governed by the free enterprise system, (which I love) but there is

an inherent conflict of interest which must be acknowledged. The

ocean doesn't want anyone to find the shore upon which there is true

cure. Cure's shut off cash flow.

>

> How much money has been made this year in the treatment of

Polio? None! Polio has been cured! The CEO of Pfizer reported

several months ago that they hope to render cancer a " manageable,

long term, chronic disease. " (look it up) They have no goals to

cure cancer because annuity is the goal of profit seeking companies

whose first obligation is to reward the investors for investing in

their companies. And this is morally correct until there is a

conflict with the health of the suffering (at least in my view) So,

there it its. We're not talking about conspiracies here, just a

basic conflict of interest. So the drug companies, which fund all

the scientific research, don't want cures because they simply don't

want to put themselves out of business. Apart from love of

humanity, I can't blame them at all.

>

> There is no one watching out for you - so it better be you, if

you want to get well.

>

> Now this brings us to the doctors. Some doctors are well

intentioned. They get creative in their efforts to help the

suffering. Creativity in medicine is viewed as unsafe medical

practice. That's why so many of your creative sorts in medicine are

having to fight for their right to practice against their peers and

the AMA. I imagine most doctors think twice before becoming

creative - even when it called for - for that very reason. If a

doctor has student loans, kids to send to college or a spouse to

keep sheltered and fed, only an imprudent individual wouldn't look

twice at this. The " good ones " go to court.

>

> This, unfortunately, is a part of the landscape - like it or

not, so understand what you are up against.

>

> Now here's the tragedy. When the cries of the suffering get

loud enough, caring people begin to do fundraisers. So, we have the

MS walk, or the Jimmy Fund trying to raise cash for who? The same

people who want annuity. THAT'S the tragedy. Money is being sent to

the very people who don't want cures to happen because they saw what

happened when Polio was cured. Can't happen? Think Dana Farber

wants to cure cancer? Go find out. All you need to do is google

or " " Best Cancer and find his Mom's website to find out

that Dana Farber would not let the Canadian remedy for cancer into

this country that cured their 13 year old son. Money Money Money....

>

> So, what some people do is turn to alternative medicine and they

wind up on groups like this one talking to others to find herbs,

machines and other remedies and - they are wise to do so. They are

at least looking out for themselves. Kudos! They are coming out of

the ether. Taking charge of their health destinies!

>

> Now here's the problem. If you want to find someone to show you

how to get well, they must have gone the distance. That is, you

want to find someone who has actually had Lyme and no longer has

it! NOTICE: They are not on this listserve... People who get well

from Lyme don't spend time on listserves like this because, they are

out living life they way they did before they contracted the

disease! The need to share in their life and to be heard by others

who can understand their plight is gone.

>

> If you want to get Lyme out of your life, you must find people

who can show you the way. I'm talking about people who no longer

have Lyme after rounds of antibiotics failed to restore their

health... not people for whom the antibiotics fixed their symptoms.

If anyone sees the logic in this post and would like to email or

talk with people who had Lyme and just don't have it anymore, or are

early on in the process of symptom reduction..great... you can email

me privately at gnormy@i... You will be put in contact with EX

lyme sufferers. Your hope and your source of advice should be those

who have suffered as you have, and no longer suffer. Plain and

simple.

>

> This, unfortunately, about sums it up.

>

> Regards,

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

All you have to do is google Blier and you will find out that he is

the founder of a commercial health care venture. So, he is spamming us.

I won't put the website URL here, because I don't want to aid in his

inapproprite use of our list.

Be well,

Deanna

Blier wrote:

>

> There is a tragic comedy those who suffer should know about... so I'll go on a

> bit and I hope this gives you something to think about.

[Guest guest]

It is true I'm a founder of a small health clinic in Rhode Island. I didn't use

an email that would conceal who I am and what I own. I don't work in a

clandestine way. What you also need to know is that I was sick for thirty years

with a ravaging aggressive and debilitating form of arthritis which caused me to

sell my business. I also had cancer. I've been as sick or sicker than some on

this list. I am free.

the reason my post is maddening to some and enlightening to some is that I am

one of those who has beaten incurable illness and there is unsettling truth in

the post that I had to learn the hard way. Because of my journey, I know where

you can find people who no longer have Lyme disease. I am trying to make the way

easier for some. I am willing to give you the names of EX lyme victims. I think

the information is valuable to anyone who can get past the pain.

If no one offers this, who will talk to them. The either had Lyme and got

well or they didn't. And, I really don't care to sell anyone anything. I'm no

longer sick. I'm happy to make this information available to you and if no one

wants to talk with EX lyme people, they don't have to ask for the names.

With my small clinic, I don't even sell products. This post is for those who

are looking. It is for the few.

I am sorry for your pain. Truly. I have been there. I have found a way out.

All I'm giving you is others who USED to have lyme.

regards

bluesky <bluesky@...> wrote:

All you have to do is google Blier and you will find out that he is

the founder of a commercial health care venture. So, he is spamming us.

I won't put the website URL here, because I don't want to aid in his

inapproprite use of our list.

Be well,

Deanna

[Guest guest]

Thanks Deanna, was rather annoyed

Bets wishes.

Jules xx

>

> >

> > There is a tragic comedy those who suffer should know about...

so I'll go on a

> > bit and I hope this gives you something to think about.

>

[Guest guest]

,

I take exception to this. In all due respect, I do understand the

battle between greed and people striving to be well again. But you

the way you generalize Doctors in my opinion is wrong.

I have lived this battle myself. I am recovering from chronic

Lyme. I went through the typical Lyme horror story. Many years of

not knowing, many specialist, many ER visits (3 times for heart

attacks and given nitro glycerin), major neurological issues, major

orthopedic issues, major psychological issues… With over 25 symptoms

with no answers. My wife also had a bad case of Lyme. My 19 month

old son and I are still battling this disease. That's the bad

news. The good news is that my wife has been off of treatment for

almost 3 months and she is feeling great. I see my LLMD on Monday

and I expect to either be off of treatment or be on my last round of

abx. I have been feeling great for about 4 months. My son is being

treated by the nations best Lyme Pediatrician located in Connecticut

and he is doing great! So your premise that people that recover

don't stick around on lists or groups is wrong. Please see my posts

over the past few months documenting our recovery.

When I initially found out that I had Lyme and found this great

board there were two people that stuck around the board to tell

everyone that they recovered and were doing well. That inspired

me. They taught me that I must get to the best LLMD and be my own

advocate.

Your argument that some doctors are well intentioned makes it sound

like they are the isolated few and that the rest are money mongers.

In my humble opinion, that is not true. I do believe that there are

greedy bad doctors but I believe that in general they are the

exception. I do believe that there is a conspiracy with the

Insurance company's looking out for their interest in Washington,

but unfortunately that is the way of the world. Why do you think

that we still have starving people in this world? The ugly reality

is that there are a small number of wealthy groups that control our

world. Why not show us ways that we can change this and help the

people in this group? I have lobbied in D.C. and look for ways that

I can help personally and from a support perspective. What's the

point in stating the obvious?

Each of us must be our own advocates. If you ever come across a

doctor that is not giving you the attention and treatment that you

deserve you should take action by reporting them, changing doctors,

documenting all of the events and continue to push to get the best

care that you deserve. We can't just blame the bad bad greedy

doctors.

I don't understand what you mean by creative. That's a very big

word that could mean going a little bit out-side of proven safe

medical practices to faith healers and snake oil. You need to

explain to us about all of the money that these other creative

institutes are making by claiming to have cures for these ailments.

Speaking for myself, I am amazed at how we attack Pharmaceuticals

for wanting to make money be we look the other way when someone

comes up with a new majical cure for Lyme that only costs $99 per

bottle. Let's stop kidding ourselves everyone is trying to make

money. I would rather put my faith in good Doctors who have

dedicated, sacrificed and spent years in medical school then to

believe a company who claims that water can cure Lyme. Please don't

just paint a greedy picture of Pharmaceuticals without discribing

how money drives all treatments. Do you know how much vitimans and

supplements costs?

Doctors are people; most are good and have dedicated their lives to

helping other people. I know one thing for sure. If these Doctors

were money hungry they would have never entered into the Medical

field. Even though it seems that Doctors are wealthy; compared to

the CEO's of business and Entrepreneurs who have truly applied their

intelligence to making money and true greed Doctors in general don't

make a lot of money. Most of our great LLMD's are struggling to

survive yet they continue to help us sick people. I have told my

LLMD and Lyme Pediatrician that when their time comes they have a

dedicated seat in Heaven. How can money compare to that as a reward?

Please don't generalize. Again, in my humble opinion it is very bad

to send such a blanket negative message out to a group of people

that are looking for support and ways that they can recover. It's

like yelling fire in a crowed movie theater. I know when I first

joined this board that these types of messages mad me feel like I

was fighting a battle that I couldn't win. I'm hear to tell you

that I feel that each of us can win and be healthy again! ! !

Be well,

>

>

> There is a tragic comedy those who suffer should know about... so

I'll go on a bit and I hope this gives you something to think about.

>

> With respect to traditional medicine and the suffering

constituents... By way of analogy, the entire medical system exists

within an ocean. This ocean is controlled by the drug companies and

governed by the free enterprise system, (which I love) but there is

an inherent conflict of interest which must be acknowledged. The

ocean doesn't want anyone to find the shore upon which there is true

cure. Cure's shut off cash flow.

>

> How much money has been made this year in the treatment of

Polio? None! Polio has been cured! The CEO of Pfizer reported

several months ago that they hope to render cancer a " manageable,

long term, chronic disease. " (look it up) They have no goals to

cure cancer because annuity is the goal of profit seeking companies

whose first obligation is to reward the investors for investing in

their companies. And this is morally correct until there is a

conflict with the health of the suffering (at least in my view) So,

there it its. We're not talking about conspiracies here, just a

basic conflict of interest. So the drug companies, which fund all

the scientific research, don't want cures because they simply don't

want to put themselves out of business. Apart from love of

humanity, I can't blame them at all.

>

> There is no one watching out for you - so it better be you, if

you want to get well.

>

> Now this brings us to the doctors. Some doctors are well

intentioned. They get creative in their efforts to help the

suffering. Creativity in medicine is viewed as unsafe medical

practice. That's why so many of your creative sorts in medicine are

having to fight for their right to practice against their peers and

the AMA. I imagine most doctors think twice before becoming

creative - even when it called for - for that very reason. If a

doctor has student loans, kids to send to college or a spouse to

keep sheltered and fed, only an imprudent individual wouldn't look

twice at this. The " good ones " go to court.

>

> This, unfortunately, is a part of the landscape - like it or

not, so understand what you are up against.

>

> Now here's the tragedy. When the cries of the suffering get

loud enough, caring people begin to do fundraisers. So, we have the

MS walk, or the Jimmy Fund trying to raise cash for who? The same

people who want annuity. THAT'S the tragedy. Money is being sent to

the very people who don't want cures to happen because they saw what

happened when Polio was cured. Can't happen? Think Dana Farber

wants to cure cancer? Go find out. All you need to do is google

or " " Best Cancer and find his Mom's website to find out

that Dana Farber would not let the Canadian remedy for cancer into

this country that cured their 13 year old son. Money Money Money....

>

> So, what some people do is turn to alternative medicine and they

wind up on groups like this one talking to others to find herbs,

machines and other remedies and - they are wise to do so. They are

at least looking out for themselves. Kudos! They are coming out of

the ether. Taking charge of their health destinies!

>

> Now here's the problem. If you want to find someone to show you

how to get well, they must have gone the distance. That is, you

want to find someone who has actually had Lyme and no longer has

it! NOTICE: They are not on this listserve... People who get well

from Lyme don't spend time on listserves like this because, they are

out living life they way they did before they contracted the

disease! The need to share in their life and to be heard by others

who can understand their plight is gone.

>

> If you want to get Lyme out of your life, you must find people

who can show you the way. I'm talking about people who no longer

have Lyme after rounds of antibiotics failed to restore their

health... not people for whom the antibiotics fixed their symptoms.

If anyone sees the logic in this post and would like to email or

talk with people who had Lyme and just don't have it anymore, or are

early on in the process of symptom reduction..great... you can email

me privately at gnormy@i... You will be put in contact with EX

lyme sufferers. Your hope and your source of advice should be those

who have suffered as you have, and no longer suffer. Plain and

simple.

>

> This, unfortunately, about sums it up.

>

> Regards,

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

,

It looks like you have been busted! You owe us all an apology. I

recommend that you disclose your financial interests in Lyme.

Please don't say that you don't have any. We may have Lyme but were

not stupid!

Full disclosure !

Be well,

>

> >

> > There is a tragic comedy those who suffer should know about...

so I'll go on a

> > bit and I hope this gives you something to think about.

>

[Guest guest]

Just in general as there are always black, white and many shades of gray

plus some color, a very large part of what said in his first message has a

great of truth. In my long battle with Lyme disease, I have found ignorant

doctors, some who appear to be charlatans and worse, some who truly want to

help. The drug companies do not want to cure disease as it would be the end of

their reward. Do the drug companies do some good, of course they do, and

they also do some bad? The problem with most all drugs is there because of

side effects and also that people are somewhat alike, but also different.

Therefor, the reactions to drugs can be sometimes death as well as life.

Based on my own experience with Lyme over a few years, herbs, possible

combined with regular abx medicine may be one's best hope. Most doctors do not

prescribe herbs and most Lyme sufferers do not seek other medical advice from a

non doctor. Therein is a great paradox for one to get ultimately better.

For some of you who think you are being cured, my own LLMD who is, I believe a

good one, says she does not believe there is a cure for long term chronic

Lyme disease. Just a thought!

Sidney

[Guest guest]

Dear Jules,

I think you may have misread what I was trying to get across.

What you have written is in other words saying " you are on your own

in your struggle and coming on any forum is nothing but inflicting

yourself with other peoples negative struggles to get better "

Look, sometimes the doctors antibiotics work. Those people are well. Good

for them. THis disease is beyond horror. Once the MD standard protocol

doesn't work, the MD can't get creative without risking his/her license. That's

just the way it works.

I am for these kinds of support groups. ANYTHING that brings a human being

some measure of relief is a God send, as far as I'm concerned. And as I " ve

written before, if you have lyme you are in a war with pathogen invisble to

current technology. You've got to try everything that will kill a " bug " . I

never used the word " negative " with respect to anything at all. And if you need

a listserve to get through, then it is a very good thing. The objective of the

listserve should be to get people off the list!

However, the goal is to get FULLY well. Fully well people are not on this

list. They can only take you as far as they have gone. My recommendation is to

find people who have HAD Lyme, who were in bad shape AFTER the anitbiotics and

have found a way to get FULLY well.

Sorry to get you all upset. I understand the emotional aspect of illness and

knew some would be unhappy. My hope is to point the way to EX Lyme sufferers,

the ONLY thing that matters is getting well. You've got to talk with those

who've regained their lives from lyme if you want to as well. .

juebs14 <juebs14@...> wrote:

Dear

I dont post on here often but i can't not regarding your post..

" Now here's the problem. If you want to find someone to show you how

to get

well, they must have gone the distance. That is, you want to find

someone who

has actually had Lyme and no longer has it! NOTICE: They are not on

this

listserve... People who get well from Lyme don't spend time on

listserves like

this because, they are out living life they way they did before they

contracted

the disease! The need to share in their life and to be heard by

others who can

understand their plight is gone "

If you think for one second that i am going to let this disease come

into my life distroy my career, distress my family , cause me

phycological symptoms that could end my life, cause me to be

immobile, and then be cured and walk away and leave others to drown

then im sorry but you have an odd judgement of people.

What you have written is in other words saying " you are on your own

in your struggle and coming on any forum is nothing but inflicting

yourself with other peoples negative struggles to get better "

Again you are highly mistaken as with out coming on these forums i

would not even know,.. what i was suffering from.

I see conversations of health and herb products all day, and i also

see an individuals choice to try such things, have you ever laid

down for hours on eneds that turn into days and then weeks.. with no

help.

So what if some of these products may not help some people, the fact

that you may be that 1 in a million it does is enough to keep you

going.

I hope i have alos got my point across.

Sorry to anyone else if this seems like a rant, i found these

comments quiet upsetting.

Jules

[Guest guest]

,

By and large I agree with the vast majority of your positions! I am truly

happy that you have found some answers. I don't care where people get well.

Just that they get well.

I agree that most doctors are well intentioned. I agree that there should be

limits to creativity. I think that when doctors are sued for giving extended

antibiotics or treat lyme when the tests are only 50% accurate is a horror and

that it must strike fear in the hearts of other doctors who witness the

lynchings. I think it is great that you share your experiences and the names

of doctors on this list.

When you and your family become fully well, will you still be here? You

dispense compassion and more, hope. My plight is that i know of other ways to

get well that are more effective. That's why I point to past sufferers who are

now free.

In my own case, had I listened to my doctor, I would be in a wheelchair today.

In more pain that I care to remember. I went to other countries to find

answers. There are other answers that don't come from the medical machine that

aren't snake oil. I know many Lyme sufferers who were on antibiotic protocols

for years.

I " m not trying to discourage people, though I know the news is discouraging.

I'm trying to get them to get in contact with those who no longer have Lyme that

they may find the health they seek.

I do struggle over the message I sent. Should I be nice, and say, " This is

all fine. Keep going. " or should I be kind and point out the flaws so maybe

some will pursue another path that may lead them to freedom.

regards,

McGillycuddy <@...> wrote:

,

I take exception to this. In all due respect, I do understand the

battle between greed and people striving to be well again. But you

the way you generalize Doctors in my opinion is wrong.

I have lived this battle myself. I am recovering from chronic

Lyme. I went through the typical Lyme horror story. Many years of

not knowing, many specialist, many ER visits (3 times for heart

attacks and given nitro glycerin), major neurological issues, major

orthopedic issues, major psychological issues… With over 25 symptoms

with no answers. My wife also had a bad case of Lyme. My 19 month

old son and I are still battling this disease. That's the bad

news. The good news is that my wife has been off of treatment for

almost 3 months and she is feeling great. I see my LLMD on Monday

and I expect to either be off of treatment or be on my last round of

abx. I have been feeling great for about 4 months. My son is being

treated by the nations best Lyme Pediatrician located in Connecticut

and he is doing great! So your premise that people that recover

don't stick around on lists or groups is wrong. Please see my posts

over the past few months documenting our recovery.

When I initially found out that I had Lyme and found this great

board there were two people that stuck around the board to tell

everyone that they recovered and were doing well. That inspired

me. They taught me that I must get to the best LLMD and be my own

advocate.

Your argument that some doctors are well intentioned makes it sound

like they are the isolated few and that the rest are money mongers.

In my humble opinion, that is not true. I do believe that there are

greedy bad doctors but I believe that in general they are the

exception. I do believe that there is a conspiracy with the

Insurance company's looking out for their interest in Washington,

but unfortunately that is the way of the world. Why do you think

that we still have starving people in this world? The ugly reality

is that there are a small number of wealthy groups that control our

world. Why not show us ways that we can change this and help the

people in this group? I have lobbied in D.C. and look for ways that

I can help personally and from a support perspective. What's the

point in stating the obvious?

Each of us must be our own advocates. If you ever come across a

doctor that is not giving you the attention and treatment that you

deserve you should take action by reporting them, changing doctors,

documenting all of the events and continue to push to get the best

care that you deserve. We can't just blame the bad bad greedy

doctors.

I don't understand what you mean by creative. That's a very big

word that could mean going a little bit out-side of proven safe

medical practices to faith healers and snake oil. You need to

explain to us about all of the money that these other creative

institutes are making by claiming to have cures for these ailments.

Speaking for myself, I am amazed at how we attack Pharmaceuticals

for wanting to make money be we look the other way when someone

comes up with a new majical cure for Lyme that only costs $99 per

bottle. Let's stop kidding ourselves everyone is trying to make

money. I would rather put my faith in good Doctors who have

dedicated, sacrificed and spent years in medical school then to

believe a company who claims that water can cure Lyme. Please don't

just paint a greedy picture of Pharmaceuticals without discribing

how money drives all treatments. Do you know how much vitimans and

supplements costs?

Doctors are people; most are good and have dedicated their lives to

helping other people. I know one thing for sure. If these Doctors

were money hungry they would have never entered into the Medical

field. Even though it seems that Doctors are wealthy; compared to

the CEO's of business and Entrepreneurs who have truly applied their

intelligence to making money and true greed Doctors in general don't

make a lot of money. Most of our great LLMD's are struggling to

survive yet they continue to help us sick people. I have told my

LLMD and Lyme Pediatrician that when their time comes they have a

dedicated seat in Heaven. How can money compare to that as a reward?

Please don't generalize. Again, in my humble opinion it is very bad

to send such a blanket negative message out to a group of people

that are looking for support and ways that they can recover. It's

like yelling fire in a crowed movie theater. I know when I first

joined this board that these types of messages mad me feel like I

was fighting a battle that I couldn't win. I'm hear to tell you

that I feel that each of us can win and be healthy again! ! !

Be well,

[Guest guest]

,

I " m happy to apologize but I " m not really sure what for... ??? My motives are

quite pure, I assure you.

I tell you the posts are for you and not for me. As a past invalid, my passion

is to help others find the way out. Here's my past experience with people on

the Ankylosing Spondelitis listserves. 10 years ago, when I found a clinic in

Mexico that cured me (80%) of my disease and saved me from all kinds of surgery,

I was so angry at our medical system that I went out to these listserve groups

to explain the theory and practice that " cured me " (I was retired at age 42 and

had lots of time to tell my story, which you can still read by googling my name

at Dr. Ongley's site) I actually got many very angry responses! All I wanted

them to know is that they didn't have to have surgery and there was a way out of

the thirty years of pain I experienced! Out of 1000 people who read my posts,

(I was really on " fire " in those days!) 10 went to the clinic and eventually

thanked me. There is no cure for A.S. so the rest continued down the road to

progressive degeneration.

Why do you think that might be??? I don't know.. But I knew before I posted

here that some would be very unhappy.

What if I really know 20 or so people who were chronically ill with Lyme and

now have their lives back?? I'm not suggesting that anyone do anything except

to talk to people who have become well. So, call my bluff! You go talk to ten

of these people and determine for yourself if they sound authentic... if they

understand Lyme... if they don't and it sounds like a big sham... Hey, come

back and report here on the list. I don't really care. But if they sound

unquestionably sincere, you could report that too...and perhaps they could

contribute to your situation. Who knows?

Just for the record, I owned part of a good sized corporation before my

illness took over my life.. I used to pay more in taxes than my little health

clinic grosses. And, though I make much less money in my itty bitty clinic,

I've never been happier. It is not about money. It's about people who were

sick like me getting well.

Call my bluff, . Talk to some EX lyme people. Go explore, buddy.

regards

McGillycuddy <@...> wrote:

,

It looks like you have been busted! You owe us all an apology. I

recommend that you disclose your financial interests in Lyme.

Please don't say that you don't have any. We may have Lyme but were

not stupid!

Full disclosure !

Be well,

[Guest guest]

,

I was cutting right to the chase, you have summed it up quite nicely. If you

talk to the EX lyme people, they'll tell you it isn't easy, but you can beat

Lyme within six months, if you aren't too disabled by it.

I think what was confusing is the truth regarding the medical limitations.

These Lyme listserve groups are nice, but let's face it, we need more people who

no longer have Lyme to point the way too.

I had cancer and Ankylosing Spondelitis, both were not cured by doctors, both

are incurable by doctors. I am so ready for Lyme if I ever get bit. I have

antibiotics -just in case - in my med cabinet, I have all kinds of herbal

remedies and extracts that I would use with dmso, and I have the knowledge of

where else to go that I have learned works from these people who no longer

suffer from Lyme. I " m ready.... and I " m STILL afraid of a tickbite! I don't

even want to walk on grass.

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

I can tell you the reason your post is maddening to me. The reason is not

at all what you mentioned.

If you had disclosed full information in your initial post I may have felt a

twinge of " hey, that's commercial, what's it doing here? " But, I would not

have felt as though you were trying to trick me and the others here.

Your letter was a marketing letter, full of compassion, yes. But a

marketing letter that was deciptive by omission. I used to write marketing

letters for a living and they were full of compassion. But we were clear

with the recipients that they were marketing letters.

If I'm not mistaken, the rules of this list allow one mention of someone's

commercial venture, if it's something that might help group members. But I

may be wrong; that may be the guideline on another Lyme list where I'm a

member.

Sincrely,

Deanna

Blier wrote:

> the reason my post is maddening to some and enlightening to some is that I am

> one of those who has beaten incurable illness and there is unsettling truth in

> the post that I had to learn the hard way. Because of my journey, I know

> where you can find people who no longer have Lyme disease. I am trying to make

> the way easier for some. I am willing to give you the names of EX lyme

> victims. I think the information is valuable to anyone who can get past the

> pain.

>

> If no one offers this, who will talk to them. The either had Lyme and got

> well or they didn't. And, I really don't care to sell anyone anything. I'm

> no longer sick. I'm happy to make this information available to you and if no

> one wants to talk with EX lyme people, they don't have to ask for the names.

>

> With my small clinic, I don't even sell products. This post is for those who

> are looking. It is for the few.

[Guest guest]

Deanna,

Sorry you felt that way. I have what I think is valuable information and

valuable insights. The fact that I run a clinic is apart from that. Money is

not my issue. Helping the chronically sick is. My thought to help those was to

point out what I've learned the hard way about the system and point those who

wish to get well to others who have become well.

The information as to who these EX lyme people are is not generally known.

The only way a group of Ex lyme people can be found is if I collect that

information and make it available. Otherwise, people on this list can ONLY talk

to people who continue to have Lyme.

If the purpose of this list is to help people, which it is, then the

information will be valuable to some. The fact that I happen to own a clinic is

secondary. I think to not allow anyone on a list who is able to help people

would be a crime. Are chiropractors, doctors and naturopaths not allowed

because they own a clinic? I have offered nothing for which anyone is to buy.

I don't intend to. If they want service, they can ask.

Is it a rule that any alternative practitioner should not post?. I don't

sell products and did not mention my clinic on the site because that would be

marketing. I think pointing people to talk with other Lyme people who actually

get well is not really marketing. It is offering research material.

People's health is in their own hands. Evidence of failure is everywhere.

Evidence of success with Lyme is scarce. I see no conflict of interest here and

I see no slight of hand.

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

If someone wanted to help surely they would open an i've recovered

from lyme site, that way any one who is suffering can pop in and as

and when they feel like it.

with no sales connections preferred.

night all

Jules xx

> Dear

> I dont post on here often but i can't not regarding your post..

>

> " Now here's the problem. If you want to find someone to show you

how

> to get

> well, they must have gone the distance. That is, you want to find

> someone who

> has actually had Lyme and no longer has it! NOTICE: They are not

on

> this

> listserve... People who get well from Lyme don't spend time on

> listserves like

> this because, they are out living life they way they did before

they

> contracted

> the disease! The need to share in their life and to be heard by

> others who can

> understand their plight is gone "

>

> If you think for one second that i am going to let this disease

come

> into my life distroy my career, distress my family , cause me

> phycological symptoms that could end my life, cause me to be

> immobile, and then be cured and walk away and leave others to

drown

> then im sorry but you have an odd judgement of people.

>

> What you have written is in other words saying " you are on your

own

> in your struggle and coming on any forum is nothing but inflicting

> yourself with other peoples negative struggles to get better "

>

> Again you are highly mistaken as with out coming on these forums i

> would not even know,.. what i was suffering from.

>

> I see conversations of health and herb products all day, and i

also

> see an individuals choice to try such things, have you ever laid

> down for hours on eneds that turn into days and then weeks.. with

no

> help.

>

> So what if some of these products may not help some people, the

fact

> that you may be that 1 in a million it does is enough to keep you

> going.

>

> I hope i have alos got my point across.

>

> Sorry to anyone else if this seems like a rant, i found these

> comments quiet upsetting.

>

> Jules

>

[Guest guest]

,

Are you saying that people with Lyme really don¹t need antibiotics? Or are

you saying that antibiotics are necessary but it goes much more beyond that?

Can you clarify yourself? What do you do in your clinic? What do you know

about what ³well² people have done. Why don¹t you share your knowledge?

On 12/18/05 11:45 AM, " Blier " <yhoolyme@...> wrote:

> ,

>

> I " m happy to apologize but I " m not really sure what for... ??? My motives

> are quite pure, I assure you.

>

> I tell you the posts are for you and not for me. As a past invalid, my

> passion is to help others find the way out. Here's my past experience with

> people on the Ankylosing Spondelitis listserves. 10 years ago, when I found a

> clinic in Mexico that cured me (80%) of my disease and saved me from all kinds

> of surgery, I was so angry at our medical system that I went out to these

> listserve groups to explain the theory and practice that " cured me " (I was

> retired at age 42 and had lots of time to tell my story, which you can still

> read by googling my name at Dr. Ongley's site) I actually got many very angry

> responses! All I wanted them to know is that they didn't have to have surgery

> and there was a way out of the thirty years of pain I experienced! Out of

> 1000 people who read my posts, (I was really on " fire " in those days!) 10

> went to the clinic and eventually thanked me. There is no cure for A.S. so

> the rest continued down the road to progressive degeneration.

>

> Why do you think that might be??? I don't know.. But I knew before I

> posted here that some would be very unhappy.

>

> What if I really know 20 or so people who were chronically ill with Lyme and

> now have their lives back?? I'm not suggesting that anyone do anything except

> to talk to people who have become well. So, call my bluff! You go talk to

> ten of these people and determine for yourself if they sound authentic... if

> they understand Lyme... if they don't and it sounds like a big sham... Hey,

> come back and report here on the list. I don't really care. But if they

> sound unquestionably sincere, you could report that too...and perhaps they

> could contribute to your situation. Who knows?

>

> Just for the record, I owned part of a good sized corporation before my

> illness took over my life.. I used to pay more in taxes than my little health

> clinic grosses. And, though I make much less money in my itty bitty clinic,

> I've never been happier. It is not about money. It's about people who were

> sick like me getting well.

>

> Call my bluff, . Talk to some EX lyme people. Go explore, buddy.

>

> regards

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Deanna,

> Sorry you felt that way. I have what I think is valuable

information and valuable insights. The fact that I run a clinic is

apart from that. Money is not my issue. Helping the chronically sick

is. My thought to help those was to point out what I've learned the

hard way about the system and point those who wish to get well to

others who have become well.

>

> The information as to who these EX lyme people are is not

generally known. The only way a group of Ex lyme people can be found

is if I collect that information and make it available. Otherwise,

people on this list can ONLY talk to people who continue to have Lyme.

>

> If the purpose of this list is to help people, which it is, then

the information will be valuable to some. The fact that I happen to

own a clinic is secondary. I think to not allow anyone on a list who

is able to help people would be a crime. Are chiropractors, doctors

and naturopaths not allowed because they own a clinic? I have offered

nothing for which anyone is to buy. I don't intend to. If they want

service, they can ask.

>

> Is it a rule that any alternative practitioner should not post?.

I don't sell products and did not mention my clinic on the site

because that would be marketing. I think pointing people to talk with

other Lyme people who actually get well is not really marketing. It

is offering research material.

>

> People's health is in their own hands. Evidence of failure is

everywhere. Evidence of success with Lyme is scarce. I see no

conflict of interest here and I see no slight of hand.

>

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

,

I totally agree!!!

Kathy

> >

> >

> > There is a tragic comedy those who suffer should know about...

so

> I'll go on a bit and I hope this gives you something to think

about.

> >

> > With respect to traditional medicine and the suffering

> constituents... By way of analogy, the entire medical system

exists

> within an ocean. This ocean is controlled by the drug companies

and

> governed by the free enterprise system, (which I love) but there

is

> an inherent conflict of interest which must be acknowledged. The

> ocean doesn't want anyone to find the shore upon which there is

true

> cure. Cure's shut off cash flow.

> >

> > How much money has been made this year in the treatment of

> Polio? None! Polio has been cured! The CEO of Pfizer reported

> several months ago that they hope to render cancer a " manageable,

> long term, chronic disease. " (look it up) They have no goals to

> cure cancer because annuity is the goal of profit seeking

companies

> whose first obligation is to reward the investors for investing in

> their companies. And this is morally correct until there is a

> conflict with the health of the suffering (at least in my view)

So,

> there it its. We're not talking about conspiracies here, just a

> basic conflict of interest. So the drug companies, which fund all

> the scientific research, don't want cures because they simply

don't

> want to put themselves out of business. Apart from love of

> humanity, I can't blame them at all.

> >

> > There is no one watching out for you - so it better be you, if

> you want to get well.

> >

> > Now this brings us to the doctors. Some doctors are well

> intentioned. They get creative in their efforts to help the

> suffering. Creativity in medicine is viewed as unsafe medical

> practice. That's why so many of your creative sorts in medicine

are

> having to fight for their right to practice against their peers

and

> the AMA. I imagine most doctors think twice before becoming

> creative - even when it called for - for that very reason. If a

> doctor has student loans, kids to send to college or a spouse to

> keep sheltered and fed, only an imprudent individual wouldn't look

> twice at this. The " good ones " go to court.

> >

> > This, unfortunately, is a part of the landscape - like it or

> not, so understand what you are up against.

> >

> > Now here's the tragedy. When the cries of the suffering get

> loud enough, caring people begin to do fundraisers. So, we have

the

> MS walk, or the Jimmy Fund trying to raise cash for who? The

same

> people who want annuity. THAT'S the tragedy. Money is being sent

to

> the very people who don't want cures to happen because they saw

what

> happened when Polio was cured. Can't happen? Think Dana Farber

> wants to cure cancer? Go find out. All you need to do is google

> or " " Best Cancer and find his Mom's website to find

out

> that Dana Farber would not let the Canadian remedy for cancer into

> this country that cured their 13 year old son. Money Money

Money....

> >

> > So, what some people do is turn to alternative medicine and

they

> wind up on groups like this one talking to others to find herbs,

> machines and other remedies and - they are wise to do so. They

are

> at least looking out for themselves. Kudos! They are coming out

of

> the ether. Taking charge of their health destinies!

> >

> > Now here's the problem. If you want to find someone to show

you

> how to get well, they must have gone the distance. That is, you

> want to find someone who has actually had Lyme and no longer has

> it! NOTICE: They are not on this listserve... People who get

well

> from Lyme don't spend time on listserves like this because, they

are

> out living life they way they did before they contracted the

> disease! The need to share in their life and to be heard by

others

> who can understand their plight is gone.

> >

> > If you want to get Lyme out of your life, you must find people

> who can show you the way. I'm talking about people who no longer

> have Lyme after rounds of antibiotics failed to restore their

> health... not people for whom the antibiotics fixed their

symptoms.

> If anyone sees the logic in this post and would like to email or

> talk with people who had Lyme and just don't have it anymore, or

are

> early on in the process of symptom reduction..great... you can

email

> me privately at gnormy@i... You will be put in contact with EX

> lyme sufferers. Your hope and your source of advice should be

those

> who have suffered as you have, and no longer suffer. Plain and

> simple.

> >

> > This, unfortunately, about sums it up.

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> >

> > __________________________________________________

> >

[Guest guest]

,

We all need to have a healthy dose of skepticism. It's enough that

we are battling this terrible disease. Do you think that you are

the only person that has posted that they have the answer, only for

us to find out that they are affiliated with some type of profit

from their cure?

I honestly don't believe that I will be here for ever. I don't

promise unrealistic things. I do know that people on this board

helped me and I'm trying to help others. I will continue to post

for as long as is reasonable. I will post my recovery along with

any challenges.

What I'm most upset about is that you tactically omitted all of the

other sides of facts about how other types of treatments also profit

from treating Lyme. Come on that's obvious. If you do your home

work you will see that I have come back from the dark shadow of

Lyme. During this path I discovered that my wife and son were also

infected. You will also see that I believe that any way that a

person can truly get well is what they should go with. My one point

is that each of us should have the best LLMD guiding their battle

against Lyme. Just because I say LLMD as your quarterback doesn't

mean I exclude other types of treatments. I believe that Dr.

Burrascano has the best approach. When you read his treatments

guidelines you will see that he is really describing a holistic

approach to recovering from Lyme. Mind, body and spirit!

I believe that you have lost your credibility on this board. You

may be well intentioned but you must understand that we have heard

this promise before. Show me.

We don't share the names of our doctors unless they doctors names

are already public knowledge (ex. Dr. Burrascano). We do

communicate with each other privately to assist each other.

One of my fundamental principles of recovery is to start by thinking

positive. I always enjoy reading stories of people that have

recovered. That is part of why I continue to post. To let people

know that they may be in a dark place know but it is possible to

recover.

Recover. That's an interesting word as well. I define recover as

the ability to lead a healthy happy life. The reason I explain my

understanding of the word recover is that I have talked to

many " experts " that have told me that if you have chronic Lyme then

the Lyme may stay with you for the rest of your life. It will be

dormant and may become active. It will usually become active if you

under go a very stressful event in your life (such as a car

accident). I choose not to worry too much about that, since I'm now

feeling great, my family feels great and I don't know what the

future will hold. I could be hit by a car tomorrow. So when I say

I have recovered I mean that I feel great and my quality of life is

the same or better then before I got infected.

I'm interested in hearing the great stories of other people that

have recovered. I have often told the newbie's on this group that

the reason they don't hear people on the list that have recovered is

exactly what you said. When people recover from Lyme they typically

go back to their normal life and forget the struggle that they went

through. That's human nature. But it also proves that people do

recover from chronic Lyme. Think about the numbers, if over 200,000

people are infected per year and people typically don't recover from

chronic Lyme then in 10 years there would be 2 million people

crippled by this terrible disease. That's not the case. When

people do recover and then they move on with their lives.

Know that we trust people that we know on this board. People that

post that they have the cure are suspect to us.

Be well,

> ,

>

> I take exception to this. In all due respect, I do understand the

> battle between greed and people striving to be well again. But

you

> the way you generalize Doctors in my opinion is wrong.

>

> I have lived this battle myself. I am recovering from chronic

> Lyme. I went through the typical Lyme horror story. Many years

of

> not knowing, many specialist, many ER visits (3 times for heart

> attacks and given nitro glycerin), major neurological issues,

major

> orthopedic issues, major psychological issues… With over 25

symptoms

> with no answers. My wife also had a bad case of Lyme. My 19

month

> old son and I are still battling this disease. That's the bad

> news. The good news is that my wife has been off of treatment for

> almost 3 months and she is feeling great. I see my LLMD on Monday

> and I expect to either be off of treatment or be on my last round

of

> abx. I have been feeling great for about 4 months. My son is

being

> treated by the nations best Lyme Pediatrician located in

Connecticut

> and he is doing great! So your premise that people that recover

> don't stick around on lists or groups is wrong. Please see my

posts

> over the past few months documenting our recovery.

>

> When I initially found out that I had Lyme and found this great

> board there were two people that stuck around the board to tell

> everyone that they recovered and were doing well. That inspired

> me. They taught me that I must get to the best LLMD and be my own

> advocate.

>

> Your argument that some doctors are well intentioned makes it

sound

> like they are the isolated few and that the rest are money

mongers.

> In my humble opinion, that is not true. I do believe that there

are

> greedy bad doctors but I believe that in general they are the

> exception. I do believe that there is a conspiracy with the

> Insurance company's looking out for their interest in Washington,

> but unfortunately that is the way of the world. Why do you think

> that we still have starving people in this world? The ugly

reality

> is that there are a small number of wealthy groups that control

our

> world. Why not show us ways that we can change this and help the

> people in this group? I have lobbied in D.C. and look for ways

that

> I can help personally and from a support perspective. What's the

> point in stating the obvious?

>

>

>

> Each of us must be our own advocates. If you ever come across a

> doctor that is not giving you the attention and treatment that you

> deserve you should take action by reporting them, changing

doctors,

> documenting all of the events and continue to push to get the best

> care that you deserve. We can't just blame the bad bad greedy

> doctors.

>

> I don't understand what you mean by creative. That's a very big

> word that could mean going a little bit out-side of proven safe

> medical practices to faith healers and snake oil. You need to

> explain to us about all of the money that these other creative

> institutes are making by claiming to have cures for these

ailments.

> Speaking for myself, I am amazed at how we attack Pharmaceuticals

> for wanting to make money be we look the other way when someone

> comes up with a new majical cure for Lyme that only costs $99 per

> bottle. Let's stop kidding ourselves everyone is trying to make

> money. I would rather put my faith in good Doctors who have

> dedicated, sacrificed and spent years in medical school then to

> believe a company who claims that water can cure Lyme. Please

don't

> just paint a greedy picture of Pharmaceuticals without discribing

> how money drives all treatments. Do you know how much vitimans

and

> supplements costs?

>

> Doctors are people; most are good and have dedicated their lives

to

> helping other people. I know one thing for sure. If these

Doctors

> were money hungry they would have never entered into the Medical

> field. Even though it seems that Doctors are wealthy; compared to

> the CEO's of business and Entrepreneurs who have truly applied

their

> intelligence to making money and true greed Doctors in general

don't

> make a lot of money. Most of our great LLMD's are struggling to

> survive yet they continue to help us sick people. I have told my

> LLMD and Lyme Pediatrician that when their time comes they have a

> dedicated seat in Heaven. How can money compare to that as a

reward?

>

> Please don't generalize. Again, in my humble opinion it is very

bad

> to send such a blanket negative message out to a group of people

> that are looking for support and ways that they can recover. It's

> like yelling fire in a crowed movie theater. I know when I first

> joined this board that these types of messages mad me feel like I

> was fighting a battle that I couldn't win. I'm hear to tell you

> that I feel that each of us can win and be healthy again! ! !

>

> Be well,

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

What you should apologize for is the tone of your original email.

Believe it or not your tone sounded like you have the cure for Lyme

and that the medical community is simply after the money. You

should also apologize for making it seem like most doctors are in on

the consipiracy with the Pharamacutical companies to make money.

I challenged you to discuss all of the money that non-conventional

treatments makes. Yours included. Saying that your already a rich

man doesn't show us your financial interests.

I'm waiting for your appology as well as the other side of the

story. I will be happy to discuss this with you or the other people

that you mention.

This discussion is probably best taken off-line. Please contact me

via private email if you wish to discuss futher.

Be well,

> ,

>

> It looks like you have been busted! You owe us all an apology. I

> recommend that you disclose your financial interests in Lyme.

> Please don't say that you don't have any. We may have Lyme but

were

> not stupid!

>

> Full disclosure !

>

> Be well,

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Blier wrote:

> I think pointing people to talk with other Lyme people who actually get well

> is not really marketing.

,

Are those people who got well by using your system? Or by other means? Or a

combination of both, yet all used your system?

Deanna

[Guest guest]

Hey Deanna thanks for the heads up. I never thought of just doing a

google. Clever! I just brought it up because he used wording almost

identical to the hours of intense sales techniques my employer

forced us to learn. Or brainwashing techniques as some of us

preferred to call it. The wording is easily recognizable. I hate it;

that's why I transfered to a different position. Now I see the same

crap on commericals and internet. -

>

> >

> > There is a tragic comedy those who suffer should know about...

so I'll go on a

> > bit and I hope this gives you something to think about.

>

[Guest guest]

deanna,

Some of both.. The " mystery system " is the human body's own powerful immune

system. Consider this, if someone can eat a peanut and go into anaphylaxis, it

shows the immune system is quite capable of OVER reacting. Right? Therefore,

it would follow that the human body is capable of UNDER reacting, true? What

disease do we call it when a 65 year old woman under reacts to calicium. I

believe the term of diagnoses is called Osteoporosis... What you need to do is

to correct the under reaction of your immune system with respect to Lyme

pathogen and you will kill whatever is hiding in your cartilage.

I think any more specific questions might be best had off line.

regards

bluesky <bluesky@...> wrote:

Blier wrote:

> I think pointing people to talk with other Lyme people who actually get well

> is not really marketing.

,

Are those people who got well by using your system? Or by other means? Or a

combination of both, yet all used your system?

Deanna

[Guest guest]

Blier wrote:

> The information as to who these EX lyme people are is not generally known.

> The only way a group of Ex lyme people can be found is if I collect that

> information and make it available. Otherwise, people on this list can ONLY

> talk to people who continue to have Lyme.

Dear ,

In the past, one or more people have posted about your work on this or some

other Lyme list. And I checked it out. (Unless I am confusing you with

someone else.)

I thought it was you because I remember going to the site and seeing

something similar to what you are offering, a CD talking about the work you

do, and a way to hear " success stories. "

In my opinion, you wrote us a marketing letter that was not honest because

it didn't say that the people whose stories you thought could help us were

former or current clients. The way I read it, you weren't writing in

personal, straightforward language saying that you have a commercial venture

which has helped other Lyme patients and would like us to know about it.

I haven't gone back to check the rules here, so I don't remember what our

exact guideline is regarding mentioning commercial ventures. I know some

people do it.

I, too, am in a health care field and plan to produce a self-hypnosis

recording for healing from Lyme and other tickborne illnesses. When I

complete that I would certainly want to mention it here. But I would write

about it as a real person and write in a straightforward way about the

product and how it has or can help. Not write something indirect and

obfuscating.

, your clinic may offer very successful work to Lyme patients. It's

just that I believe you were dishonest with us.

Deanna