New member Hello

[Guest guest]

The first thing you got to do is get away from ladder climbing

pronto!!

The second thing you do is stay away from orthopaedic surgeons!!

The third thing you do is go and find a prolotherapist.

Seeya,

Mark.

[Guest guest]

Hi :

I'm also 32 and was diagnosed with CP by two doctors. As it turns

out, they were both wrong. CP, it seems, is what Orthopedic Surgeons

diagnose when they can't figure out what is actually wrong. I was

fortunate enough to find a Pain Specialist who helped me. I've also

gotten five members of this club to go to pain specialists and NONE

of them have CP.

The point here is this: you have to find a doctor who will determine

what is actually wrong with you. You may have CP (or more accurately

patello-femoral syndrome) or you may not. In my case, my hips were

out of alignment which led to a half-inch difference in the length of

my legs. This caused a tremendous amount of strain on the soft

tissues of the knee of my " longer " leg. A physical therapist fixed

my hip/leg-length problem in about five minutes. Next, the doctor I

saw gave me Prolotherapy injections in the ligaments and tendons to

help repair the damage. It took about six months from start to

finish, but I've been running about 30 miles a week with no pain. 18

months ago, two doctors told me I had CP and that I should give up

running.

- Keep searching until you can find a doctor who will give you a

thorough (1 to 2 hour) examination. My guy is in Danbury, CT and may

not be too far from you. He's at:

http://www.imaginelifewithoutpain.com

- Don't even THINK about surgery until you have exhausted every

other option and cannot function in daily life. As you'll see in

this Group, surgery usually doesn't help and quite often makes things

worse.

- Become your own doctor. Do the research yourself. The Internet

makes this easy. Just be aware that alot of the stuff out there is

written by knuckle-head orthopedic surgeons who don't know what they

are talking about. For example, anything that says to get

arthroscopic surgery just to " look around " is wrong.

I know I didn't specifically answer your questions. The truth is, I

have no idea what is wrong with your knees and, therefore, can't say

if physical therapy, TENS or injections will help. Everybody is

different.

I've inserted some links below on prolotherapy. Feel free to E-mail

me with questions.

Take care,

Doug from CT

dougfromct2002@...

http://www.getprolo.com

http://www.sportsprolo.com

> I am a new member and stumbled on this great list.I am 32 yrs old

and

> have been diagnosed with Chondromalacia.This may be a bit of a long

> read so I appreciate anyone who reads this and may reply for me.The

> Chondro. has progressed rapidly in the last 9 months.I first felt a

> grinding in my left knee that could also be heard,around April of

> last year.By June it did not get better so I swa an Ortho.

doctor.At

> this point I had NO pain at all.He told me what it was and if there

> was no pain not to worry about it and take Advil if it started

> hurting.I found it odd to hear him say leave it until it hurts.I

> thought the idea was to aviod the whole hurting part in the first

> place.He recomended Physical Therapy and I did it for about a month

> and stopped.I then started getting pain in November and it started

in

> my right knee as well.It started to become very uncomfoftable

> climbing stairs and I noticed I started using the rail to get some

> weight off the knees.My left knee right now sounds horrible when I

> bend on it with a nasty crunching on the way down and up.The right

> knee is not as bad but both have a dull pain right in the kneecap

> areas.In Jan I saw another doctor hoping he would have a better

> answer for me.I really was hoping he would tell me he could operate

> and cure my problems.Not the case he prescribed Celebrex 200mg wich

> does help.I just had an MRI done on both knees this past Sat and

have

> an appt with the doc on Fri.Here are my questions will a real

attempt

> at phsical therapy help me?Has anyone used a Tens unit with success?

> Are there any injections that are helpfull?I have started a

> stretching routine that oddly seems to be helping any thoughts?I

work

> for the Phone company and climbing ladders is a daily task multiple

> times.I am active outside of work I ride a motocross bike and I am

> not overweight at 5'9 and 165lbs.I also started taking Glucosamine

> and its too early too tell if it is helping.This is a lot I am

> throwing out there at one time and I apologize and will be very

> thankfull for any responses. in NY

[Guest guest]

Doug thank you for taking time to reply.I am glad things have worked

out well for you.It is funny I was thinking the same as far as being

100% sure that CP is my problem.The second Ortho I saw was told by ME

that I was diagnosed with CP by the first Ortho.At that point he

basically took my word for it and never really examined my knees to

any degree.He did say there is no surgery that would be helpfull.I am

not in pain to any level near some of the others members here.Mostly

at night after being on them all day they ache.It is a dull pain

right on the kneecap area.Sitting for a long time also bothers them

the same way.At this point the noise they make bothers me as much as

the pain.Both docs said ignore the noise and be more concerned with

the pain.I can not help but worry about the future of my knees when I

hear them crunch away.The best time of day is when I first get out of

bed.Lying down they hardly ever bother me at all.I just picked up

Palumbo braces today and they seem cumbersome.My main objective is to

prevent them from getting any worse and hopefully correct the

problem.It seems there is no corrective measure out there.I am seeing

my Ortho on Friday to discuss the MRI results wich I am sure he will

say are " normal " and I know better.What are some things I should ask

him and any adviceon what to look for in a good doctor.Has anyone had

measured sucess with Physical Therapy?Only drawback is it's a band

aide as I'm sure when you stop the symptoms come back.50 yrs of PT

does not appeal to me.Prolotherapy does insurance cover this (Vytra)?

Thanks again this place is like a gold mine of info for me. in NY

[Guest guest]

:

Three things:

1) The noise in my knee diminished after the joint was " tightened-up "

with prolotherapy. As far as I can guess, everything just came into

line a little better when the ligaments and tendons were repaired.

2) Prolotherapy is covered by some, but not all, insurance

companies. My advice is to talk to your doctor, NOT your insurance

company.

3) I'm curious to see if your MRI shows anything. Post as many

details as you can when you get the results.

Take care,

Doug

> Doug thank you for taking time to reply.I am glad things have

worked

> out well for you.It is funny I was thinking the same as far as

being

> 100% sure that CP is my problem.The second Ortho I saw was told by

ME

> that I was diagnosed with CP by the first Ortho.At that point he

> basically took my word for it and never really examined my knees to

> any degree.He did say there is no surgery that would be helpfull.I

am

> not in pain to any level near some of the others members

here.Mostly

> at night after being on them all day they ache.It is a dull pain

> right on the kneecap area.Sitting for a long time also bothers them

> the same way.At this point the noise they make bothers me as much

as

> the pain.Both docs said ignore the noise and be more concerned with

> the pain.I can not help but worry about the future of my knees when

I

> hear them crunch away.The best time of day is when I first get out

of

> bed.Lying down they hardly ever bother me at all.I just picked up

> Palumbo braces today and they seem cumbersome.My main objective is

to

> prevent them from getting any worse and hopefully correct the

> problem.It seems there is no corrective measure out there.I am

seeing

> my Ortho on Friday to discuss the MRI results wich I am sure he

will

> say are " normal " and I know better.What are some things I should

ask

> him and any adviceon what to look for in a good doctor.Has anyone

had

> measured sucess with Physical Therapy?Only drawback is it's a band

> aide as I'm sure when you stop the symptoms come back.50 yrs of PT

> does not appeal to me.Prolotherapy does insurance cover this

(Vytra)?

> Thanks again this place is like a gold mine of info for me. in

NY

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Hi my situation is somewhat similar to u but I have

had a Acl repair six yrs ago this new problems of ache

and uneasy feeling of the knee is worrying me about

the future I am physician myself 32 yrs of age and I

am not sure as what the cause is the OS i have seen

really dont know what the problem is and I have

diagnosed CP myself.

The chopat brace really helps my strategy is this

1 Use the brace as much as possible

2 Exercise

3 Try glucosamine & Chondritin

4 Try Synvisc a agent used by rheumatologist to

lubricate the joint for OA

5 Stay away from the OS

Good Luck and keep me posted ur symptoms match mine

very much and I am worried about the future too.

A note of optimism is this if U hang out for about 15

yrs Knee replacement should have become much more

advanced thats my hope

Bye for now

Raj

--- weekendtoy98dr <weekendtoy98dr@...> wrote:

> Doug thank you for taking time to reply.I am glad

> things have worked

> out well for you.It is funny I was thinking the same

> as far as being

> 100% sure that CP is my problem.The second Ortho I

> saw was told by ME

> that I was diagnosed with CP by the first Ortho.At

> that point he

> basically took my word for it and never really

> examined my knees to

> any degree.He did say there is no surgery that would

> be helpfull.I am

> not in pain to any level near some of the others

> members here.Mostly

> at night after being on them all day they ache.It is

> a dull pain

> right on the kneecap area.Sitting for a long time

> also bothers them

> the same way.At this point the noise they make

> bothers me as much as

> the pain.Both docs said ignore the noise and be more

> concerned with

> the pain.I can not help but worry about the future

> of my knees when I

> hear them crunch away.The best time of day is when I

> first get out of

> bed.Lying down they hardly ever bother me at all.I

> just picked up

> Palumbo braces today and they seem cumbersome.My

> main objective is to

> prevent them from getting any worse and hopefully

> correct the

> problem.It seems there is no corrective measure out

> there.I am seeing

> my Ortho on Friday to discuss the MRI results wich I

> am sure he will

> say are " normal " and I know better.What are some

> things I should ask

> him and any adviceon what to look for in a good

> doctor.Has anyone had

> measured sucess with Physical Therapy?Only drawback

> is it's a band

> aide as I'm sure when you stop the symptoms come

> back.50 yrs of PT

> does not appeal to me.Prolotherapy does insurance

> cover this (Vytra)?

> Thanks again this place is like a gold mine of info

> for me. in NY

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

> 3) I'm curious to see if your MRI shows anything.

> Post as many

> details as you can when you get the results.

>

> Take care,

> Doug

Here you go this is from the report of the MRI word

for word.It is in doctor lingo and you may or may not

be able to interperate it.

Left knee:(this is the one that had symptoms first)

Evaluation of the menisci demonstrates subtle

increased signal in the posterior horn of the medial

meniscus wich appears to invlove the inferior

articular surface and is suspicious for tear.Suspicion

is also raised when it is noted the patient has a

Baker's cyst between the medial head of gastrocnemius

muscle and the semimembranosus tendon.There is

increased signal in the posterior horn of the lateral

meniscus as well,but does not appear to invlove the

articular surface and this is felt to represent intra

meniscal degenerative change.Anteroir and posterior

cruciate ligaments as well as medial and lateral

collateral ligaments are intact.No abnormal signal is

seen within the quadriceps or patellar tendons.No

abnormal bone marrow signal is seen.Cartilage on the

under surface of the patella appears

intactImpression:Suspicion for obliquely oriented tear

of the posterior horn of the medial meniscus.This

suspicion is increased when it is noted there is a

bakers cyst.

Right knee:There is increased signal in the posterior

horn of the medial meniscus,but this does not

definately involve an articular surface and is felt to

represent intrameniscal degenerative change.Lateral

meniscus appears normal.Anteroir and posterior as well

as medial and lateral collateral ligaments are

intact.No abnormal bone marrow signal is seen.No

bakers cyst.Small amount of joint fliud is noted.

Impression:Intrameniscal degenerative change posterior

horn of the medial miniscus.No definative meniscal

tear is seen.

Thats it, sounds really technical.It's funny that on

the left knee it states the cartilige under the knee

cap appears intact.That is the more noisy and least

smoothly operating of the two.I am seeing the ortho

tommorrow and will post what he says.More than likly

that the MRI is " normal " and prescribe PT for me.I

will ask him how he has come to the conclusion that I

have CP.I have alot of stuff written down to ask

him.He will earn his visit fee tommorrow.

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

It appears you don't have CP. That's good. In fact, the whole MRI

looks like good news.

If anything, maybe a slight tear on the back of your left medial

meniscus. Don't let a surgeon touch you. I'll bet you can fix it

conservatively (like with prolotherapy ). And remember, MRI's are

not 100% reliable. In fact, false positives are very common.

Of course the usual disclaimer applies here: I'm not a doctor.

Good luck with the doc. Definitely ask a million questions. Don't

let him brush you off.

- Doug

>

> > 3) I'm curious to see if your MRI shows anything.

> > Post as many

> > details as you can when you get the results.

> >

> > Take care,

> > Doug

>

> Here you go this is from the report of the MRI word

> for word.It is in doctor lingo and you may or may not

> be able to interperate it.

>

> Left knee:(this is the one that had symptoms first)

> Evaluation of the menisci demonstrates subtle

> increased signal in the posterior horn of the medial

> meniscus wich appears to invlove the inferior

> articular surface and is suspicious for tear.Suspicion

> is also raised when it is noted the patient has a

> Baker's cyst between the medial head of gastrocnemius

> muscle and the semimembranosus tendon.There is

> increased signal in the posterior horn of the lateral

> meniscus as well,but does not appear to invlove the

> articular surface and this is felt to represent intra

> meniscal degenerative change.Anteroir and posterior

> cruciate ligaments as well as medial and lateral

> collateral ligaments are intact.No abnormal signal is

> seen within the quadriceps or patellar tendons.No

> abnormal bone marrow signal is seen.Cartilage on the

> under surface of the patella appears

> intactImpression:Suspicion for obliquely oriented tear

> of the posterior horn of the medial meniscus.This

> suspicion is increased when it is noted there is a

> bakers cyst.

>

> Right knee:There is increased signal in the posterior

> horn of the medial meniscus,but this does not

> definately involve an articular surface and is felt to

> represent intrameniscal degenerative change.Lateral

> meniscus appears normal.Anteroir and posterior as well

> as medial and lateral collateral ligaments are

> intact.No abnormal bone marrow signal is seen.No

> bakers cyst.Small amount of joint fliud is noted.

> Impression:Intrameniscal degenerative change posterior

> horn of the medial miniscus.No definative meniscal

> tear is seen.

>

> Thats it, sounds really technical.It's funny that on

> the left knee it states the cartilige under the knee

> cap appears intact.That is the more noisy and least

> smoothly operating of the two.I am seeing the ortho

> tommorrow and will post what he says.More than likly

> that the MRI is " normal " and prescribe PT for me.I

> will ask him how he has come to the conclusion that I

> have CP.I have alot of stuff written down to ask

> him.He will earn his visit fee tommorrow.

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

What is a chopat brace and what does it do? I would be very

interested. I am 25 years old and have just accepted that CP is a

degenerative process, but I do worry what the future holds for me. my

OS said he could do a total knee when I was 40! Don't know that I am

holding out for that unless I cannot walk very well

I take G/C daily, and I am doing a little better after Synvisc

injections in both knees this past December, and have been able to go

from taking Lodine twice a day to only once every couple of days. I

am a nurse and work 50-60 hours a week, but have found that working

in an ICU setiing is easier on my knees than running up and down

floors of a M/S unit all day!

Thanks for the info on the brace.

> > Doug thank you for taking time to reply.I am glad

> > things have worked

> > out well for you.It is funny I was thinking the same

> > as far as being

> > 100% sure that CP is my problem.The second Ortho I

> > saw was told by ME

> > that I was diagnosed with CP by the first Ortho.At

> > that point he

> > basically took my word for it and never really

> > examined my knees to

> > any degree.He did say there is no surgery that would

> > be helpfull.I am

> > not in pain to any level near some of the others

> > members here.Mostly

> > at night after being on them all day they ache.It is

> > a dull pain

> > right on the kneecap area.Sitting for a long time

> > also bothers them

> > the same way.At this point the noise they make

> > bothers me as much as

> > the pain.Both docs said ignore the noise and be more

> > concerned with

> > the pain.I can not help but worry about the future

> > of my knees when I

> > hear them crunch away.The best time of day is when I

> > first get out of

> > bed.Lying down they hardly ever bother me at all.I

> > just picked up

> > Palumbo braces today and they seem cumbersome.My

> > main objective is to

> > prevent them from getting any worse and hopefully

> > correct the

> > problem.It seems there is no corrective measure out

> > there.I am seeing

> > my Ortho on Friday to discuss the MRI results wich I

> > am sure he will

> > say are " normal " and I know better.What are some

> > things I should ask

> > him and any adviceon what to look for in a good

> > doctor.Has anyone had

> > measured sucess with Physical Therapy?Only drawback

> > is it's a band

> > aide as I'm sure when you stop the symptoms come

> > back.50 yrs of PT

> > does not appeal to me.Prolotherapy does insurance

> > cover this (Vytra)?

> > Thanks again this place is like a gold mine of info

> > for me. in NY

> >

> >

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

Its supposed to take the pressure off the patella

femoral contact or it makes the patella move more in

sync the its supposed to move.

try it out the new one with double strap one above and

one below the patella is better

Raj

--- jmarie_rn <no_reply > wrote:

> What is a chopat brace and what does it do? I

> would be very

> interested. I am 25 years old and have just

> accepted that CP is a

> degenerative process, but I do worry what the future

> holds for me. my

> OS said he could do a total knee when I was 40!

> Don't know that I am

> holding out for that unless I cannot walk very well

> I take G/C daily, and I am doing a little better

> after Synvisc

> injections in both knees this past December, and

> have been able to go

> from taking Lodine twice a day to only once every

> couple of days. I

> am a nurse and work 50-60 hours a week, but have

> found that working

> in an ICU setiing is easier on my knees than running

> up and down

> floors of a M/S unit all day!

> Thanks for the info on the brace.

>

>

>

> > > Doug thank you for taking time to reply.I am

> glad

> > > things have worked

> > > out well for you.It is funny I was thinking the

> same

> > > as far as being

> > > 100% sure that CP is my problem.The second Ortho

> I

> > > saw was told by ME

> > > that I was diagnosed with CP by the first

> Ortho.At

> > > that point he

> > > basically took my word for it and never really

> > > examined my knees to

> > > any degree.He did say there is no surgery that

> would

> > > be helpfull.I am

> > > not in pain to any level near some of the others

> > > members here.Mostly

> > > at night after being on them all day they

> ache.It is

> > > a dull pain

> > > right on the kneecap area.Sitting for a long

> time

> > > also bothers them

> > > the same way.At this point the noise they make

> > > bothers me as much as

> > > the pain.Both docs said ignore the noise and be

> more

> > > concerned with

> > > the pain.I can not help but worry about the

> future

> > > of my knees when I

> > > hear them crunch away.The best time of day is

> when I

> > > first get out of

> > > bed.Lying down they hardly ever bother me at

> all.I

> > > just picked up

> > > Palumbo braces today and they seem cumbersome.My

> > > main objective is to

> > > prevent them from getting any worse and

> hopefully

> > > correct the

> > > problem.It seems there is no corrective measure

> out

> > > there.I am seeing

> > > my Ortho on Friday to discuss the MRI results

> wich I

> > > am sure he will

> > > say are " normal " and I know better.What are some

> > > things I should ask

> > > him and any adviceon what to look for in a good

> > > doctor.Has anyone had

> > > measured sucess with Physical Therapy?Only

> drawback

> > > is it's a band

> > > aide as I'm sure when you stop the symptoms come

> > > back.50 yrs of PT

> > > does not appeal to me.Prolotherapy does

> insurance

> > > cover this (Vytra)?

> > > Thanks again this place is like a gold mine of

> info

> > > for me. in NY

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> > __________________________________________________

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi !

I'm fairly new to this group as well, but I wanted to share the dietary things

that I found to be helpful. I stopped ALL sugar (not all carbs) and started

making my body as alkaline as possible, as spiroquettes don't thrive in an

alkaline environment. I did this by ingesting lots of acids...I know, it sounds

contradictory to take acids to become more alkaline, but it works. I drink lots

of water with lemon juice, lime juice or apple cider added. I take cranberry

extract and LOTS of Vit. C (Ascorbic Acid) I started with 1000 mgs. per day and

slowly worked my way up to 6000 mgs. by increasing 1000 mgs. per week. I don't

take it all at once, but rather take the dose divided into about 6-8 daily. I

plan to keep increasing the Vit. C until I reach 10,000 - 15,000 mgs. per day. I

also take many supplements to help protect my major organs...heart, liver,

lungs, kidneys &  brain. I hope this is helpful!

Be Well!