Re: different method of diagnosis or treatment

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Lyme Aid Owner

==========

, what is your specific definition of " weird docs? " What I am hearing you

say in your email post is that any doctor or person who chooses a different

method of diagnosis or treatment that varies from " mainstream " conservative

medicine is " weird. "

Are you aware that very good doctors have been harrassed and had their

practices turned upside down by the feds? Does that mean they are guilty of

something? Are they guilty until proven innocent? I know of a physician who

has had certain machines confiscated in the mail, yet she has cured someone of

cancer with one of those machines. Who do you think you are that you can label

such a doctor as " weird? "

There are many fine methods of diagnosing and treating patients that are not

accepted by mainstream medicine. In fact, mainstream medicine doesn't even have

an ounce of knowledge of these methods, because mainstream focus on medicine is

so narrow is scope. They choose not to avail themselves of the oceans of

information available to them. That is their choice and it is yours, also.

However, please try to remember, , that there are many, many different

types of medicine being practiced in the world. Your physician's medicine, the

medicine that you choose to avail yourself of, is only one type of medicine

available to be utilized.

And, by the way, Arizona has some very fine doctors. And I'm sure Reno does,

too. What a really crummy low blow that was when you said that " all these weird

docs are from Reno or Arizona. " Who are you, anyway, and what are you really

trying to do on this list?

I apologize to everyone else, but I'm just fed up with the snide posts.

eric_s11050 <eric_s11050@...> wrote:

just to let you know that the dermatron machine has gotten a doctor in

reno his license revoked...it has been said that it is not a medical

device...its is funny that all these wierd docs are from reno or

arizona..

eric

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Your message has been edited.

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Lyme Aid Owner

=====

> And, by the way, Arizona has some very fine doctors. And I'm

sure Reno does, too. What a really crummy low blow that was when

you said that " all these weird docs are from Reno or Arizona. "

>

> I apologize to everyone else, but I'm just fed up with the snide

posts.

>

>

>

I have seen over 40 drs in AZ

in the past 7 yrs and only found 2 that I would consider even

decent. However neither one is an LLMD and in fact there isn't a

bonafide LLMD in AZ. My LLMD is in PA.

I will side with there are a lot of weird doctors. I just come

across some info last night that really disturbed me as the

naturopath I have been seeing has been giving me something that may

have harmed me and should have never been given to someone with

mercury toxicity.

In just this little AZ town alone we have another naturopath that

claims to heal people with Lyme in one visit by touching the body in

a certain place. A co-worker is convinced her husband is cured of

Lyme (though he is still ill and tired all the time).

Regardless everyone has a right to their own opinion.

[Guest guest]

I know two LLMD's in the Phoenix area. Both have extensive experience in

treating patients with LD. I have seen both of them. I was referred to both of

them through IGeneX. I've seen a number of docs in the Phoenix area, and only

the LLMD's would consider LD. My opinion of the others as far as LD is

concerned is that they don't know what they're talking about and they are

definitely not " Lyme experts " as they tout themselves to be. However, I know

that the one very highly-regarded infectious disease specialist in Phoenix, Dr.

Kuberski, who claims he's a Lyme expert is absolutely no expert in LD at

all. He told me in his office that " Lyme disease doesn't cause neurological

problems. "

I think he does a wonderful job treating AIDS patients, though. So, making

statements about physicians comes from a personal viewpoint most often based

upon personal experience. I wouldn't give Dr. Kuberski the time of day

for his abusive treatment of me. However, if someone needed a referral to a doc

for AIDS, I would recommend him, because I have heard from patients at his

office that he has helped them tremendously. He abused me because he refuses to

recognize LD in AZ. He doesn't feel that way about AIDS, so he probably

wouldn't practice abusive psychiatry on an AIDS patient because he recognizes

that disease.

you, as did, have also made an " absolute " statement which you

cannot prove or back up with facts. You stated, " ,,,in fact there isn't a

bonafide LLMD in Arizona. " I challenge you to prove that statement and back it

up with facts. Your statement is not a a " fact " at all. A fact is something

indisputable, and opinions about physicians are personal viewpoints; they are

not facts.

I'm sorry you have had bad experiences with many physicians. I have

experienced the same. However, to make a blanket statement that there isn't one

bonafide LLMD in the state of Arizona, is an exaggeration.

As a matter of fact, I made an absolute statement at a visit to one of my

LLMD's, and thankfully, he took the time to correct me by pointing out to me

that " never " is an absolute word, also.

Yes, we are all entitled to our opinions, but opinions are not facts.

wtptoo <wtptoo@...> wrote:

I have seen over 40 drs in AZ

in the past 7 yrs and only found 2 that I would consider even

decent. However neither one is an LLMD and in fact there isn't a

bonafide LLMD in AZ. My LLMD is in PA.

Regardless everyone has a right to their own opinion.

[Guest guest]

Tina,

I guess we have differing opinions as to what an LLMD is. A LLMD to

me is not just a dr that happens to treat Lyme patients. A LLMD is

someone who exclusively treats tick infected patients and has

training in that field and extensive experience. The LLMD I was

seeing was a microbiologist before becoming an internal med dr and

15 years ago switched over to almost exclusively to Lyme patients

except he didn't dump his long term patients he had been seeing for

things like RA. I don't regard Kuberski as a LLMD as the AZ Lyme

association never has given his name to me as a LLMD or even a

possibility. The members have also told me there are no LLMDs in AZ

only a few drs, mostly naturopaths who are " trying " to treat Lyme

though one of them Dr. L I am told has the bedside manner of a wild

baboon. I have had several people including some from outside the

state warn me about him. If there were LLMDs in Phoenix or AZ then

why do all the Lyme patients I know in town have LLMDs in the East

and not Phoenix which is a lot shorter commute? I am now seeing a

dr in Northern AZ who is treating me for Lyme and RMSF. He has no

qualms about using antibiotics and has used IV rocephin in a number

of other patients. Yet I wouldn't call him a LLMD and he doesn't

call himself a LLMD either.

>

> I know two LLMD's in the Phoenix area. Both have extensive

experience in treating patients with LD. I have seen both of them.

I was referred to both of them through IGeneX. I've seen a number

of docs in the Phoenix area, and only the LLMD's would consider LD.

My opinion of the others as far as LD is concerned is that they

don't know what they're talking about and they are definitely

not " Lyme experts " as they tout themselves to be. However, I know

that the one very highly-regarded infectious disease specialist in

Phoenix, Dr. Kuberski, who claims he's a Lyme expert is

absolutely no expert in LD at all. He told me in his office

that " Lyme disease doesn't cause neurological problems. "

>

> I think he does a wonderful job treating AIDS patients, though.

So, making statements about physicians comes from a personal

viewpoint most often based upon personal experience. I wouldn't

give Dr. Kuberski the time of day for his abusive treatment

of me. However, if someone needed a referral to a doc for AIDS, I

would recommend him, because I have heard from patients at his

office that he has helped them tremendously. He abused me because

he refuses to recognize LD in AZ. He doesn't feel that way about

AIDS, so he probably wouldn't practice abusive psychiatry on an AIDS

patient because he recognizes that disease.

>

> you, as did, have also made an " absolute " statement

which you cannot prove or back up with facts. You stated, " ,,,in

fact there isn't a bonafide LLMD in Arizona. " I challenge you to

prove that statement and back it up with facts. Your statement is

not a a " fact " at all. A fact is something indisputable, and

opinions about physicians are personal viewpoints; they are not

facts.

>

> I'm sorry you have had bad experiences with many physicians. I

have experienced the same. However, to make a blanket statement

that there isn't one bonafide LLMD in the state of Arizona, is an

exaggeration.

>

> As a matter of fact, I made an absolute statement at a visit to

one of my LLMD's, and thankfully, he took the time to correct me by

pointing out to me that " never " is an absolute word, also.

>

> Yes, we are all entitled to our opinions, but opinions are not

facts.

>

[Guest guest]

Tina

I think that you are upset about what happened to you with the doctors and

all..I dont think that you understand that we know where you have been and that

its ok to be upset...I stated that the clinic in reno and I think you may be

going there is not a good venture for people with lyme... I may be wrong but I

dont think so...just hang in there and dont take everything you here to the

heart....

eric

" Tina J. " <tinajgarcia@...> wrote:

I know two LLMD's in the Phoenix area. Both have extensive experience in

treating patients with LD. I have seen both of them. I was referred to both of

them through IGeneX. I've seen a number of docs in the Phoenix area, and only

the LLMD's would consider LD. My opinion of the others as far as LD is

concerned is that they don't know what they're talking about and they are

definitely not " Lyme experts " as they tout themselves to be. However, I know

that the one very highly-regarded infectious disease specialist in Phoenix, Dr.

Kuberski, who claims he's a Lyme expert is absolutely no expert in LD at

all. He told me in his office that " Lyme disease doesn't cause neurological

problems. "

I think he does a wonderful job treating AIDS patients, though. So, making

statements about physicians comes from a personal viewpoint most often based

upon personal experience. I wouldn't give Dr. Kuberski the time of day

for his abusive treatment of me. However, if someone needed a referral to a doc

for AIDS, I would recommend him, because I have heard from patients at his

office that he has helped them tremendously. He abused me because he refuses to

recognize LD in AZ. He doesn't feel that way about AIDS, so he probably

wouldn't practice abusive psychiatry on an AIDS patient because he recognizes

that disease.

you, as did, have also made an " absolute " statement which you

cannot prove or back up with facts. You stated, " ,,,in fact there isn't a

bonafide LLMD in Arizona. " I challenge you to prove that statement and back it

up with facts. Your statement is not a a " fact " at all. A fact is something

indisputable, and opinions about physicians are personal viewpoints; they are

not facts.

I'm sorry you have had bad experiences with many physicians. I have

experienced the same. However, to make a blanket statement that there isn't one

bonafide LLMD in the state of Arizona, is an exaggeration.

As a matter of fact, I made an absolute statement at a visit to one of my

LLMD's, and thankfully, he took the time to correct me by pointing out to me

that " never " is an absolute word, also.

Yes, we are all entitled to our opinions, but opinions are not facts.

wtptoo <wtptoo@...> wrote:

I have seen over 40 drs in AZ

in the past 7 yrs and only found 2 that I would consider even

decent. However neither one is an LLMD and in fact there isn't a

bonafide LLMD in AZ. My LLMD is in PA.

Regardless everyone has a right to their own opinion.

[Guest guest]

It is my opinion that Drs. Levin and Korn both have extensive experience

treating Lyme patients, along with other disorders as well. Dr. Levin has

patients from other states as well as Arizona, and Dr. Korn is currently

treating more than 60 Lyme patients.

I think it's very unfortunate that someone would talk about the bedside manner

of a wild baboon if they were talking about Dr. Levin. He is a dear man and a

competent physician. I'm thankful to him, because he saved my life!

I glad that some people can afford to travel out-of-state to obtain treatment.

Not everyone is able to do that. Some people cannot afford to pay for one

doctor's visit, let alone the labs and treatment. That is why I formed L.E.A.P.

Arizona, Lyme Education Awareness Program. Contrary to negative comments from

some members of the AZLDA, we hope to assist patients who cannot afford the

treatment of their choice. We have absolutely no intentions of " dividing the

state. "

I hope you will visit our website at www.leaparizona.com where you will be

able to see exactly what our Mission and Vision Statements are. It's probably

better to go to the source for information and to formulate an opinion rather

than riding upon the opinions of others.

I hope you are pleased with the doc in northern Arizona. Is the treatment

working for you? Did you contract RMSF in Arizona? How is that coming along?

Tina

[Guest guest]

Tina,

I'm glad Drs. Levin and Korn have been able to help you. Just

understand that no two people have the same opinions or experience

with drs. It reminds me of a specialist I went to who's RA patients

think he is a martyr and all of the autoimmune patients think he is

the devil himself. I sat in a support group of 35 people where 34

hated the man's guts and the other 1 person thought we were all

crazy. Some of it depends on personality of dr & patient,

expectations of patient and perhaps if you have an illness that the

dr likes to treat. Some patients are too complicated for some

doctors.

Please don't think out of state physicians are for the wealthy or

that it costs that much. I have heard from a number of Lyme patients

who pay $500-1,500 a visit for their local LLMD. Yet the out of

state LLMD I saw charged less than even some of my local drs, plus

he took insurance which many LLMDs don't and he traveled to the

Southwest(has a medical license in 4 states) to see patients and did

phone appointments inbetween. A Lyme patient that later worked for

him told me he had cured over 1000 Lyme patients in past 15 years

and sees over 200 Lyme patients every month. So that is the kind of

criteria I base my definition of an LLMD on. This is just my

opinion, but I think the best LLMDs are in the East because they

have decades of experience dealing with tickborne diseases whereas

the Western doctors seem to think it is a " new " thing.

My new dr who is treating me for Lyme is working with my LLMD back

East. The treatment is working for me because he is continuing on

with the meds I have had positive results with plus he is able to

treat pain and send me to phys therapy to get my legs working right

again. Prior to seeing him I had tried for two years to get PT as my

previous insurance wouldn't let me have many PT visits so I never

fully recovered from my injuries. But after I got on diff insurance

none of my drs would let me have PT. They just kept giving me pills

for it! I didn't ask this guy I just told him the problems with my

legs and he said " I'm sending you to therapy " . Wow! I thought!

The RMSF I contracted in Eastern TN. I've had 6 separate RMSF rashes

so have never known if it was caused by reinfections or if I just

get repeated rashes from same infection. RMSF causes blood

disorders. Something as simple as taking my blood pressure and I

will bleed under the skin. I'm covered in petachae and often wake up

to find blood on my pillow and even under it and cannot figure out

what was bleeding. I am so anemic that once after giving 8 vials of

blood at the lab I came home and blacked out for awhile. I was put

on Chromagen after that which helped immensely, but it interferes

with the other meds I am on now so cannot take it.

>

> It is my opinion that Drs. Levin and Korn both have extensive

experience treating Lyme patients, along with other disorders as

well. Dr. Levin has patients from other states as well as Arizona,

and Dr. Korn is currently treating more than 60 Lyme patients.

> I glad that some people can afford to travel out-of-state to

obtain treatment. Not everyone is able to do that. Some people

cannot afford to pay for one doctor's visit, let alone the labs and

treatment. That is why I formed L.E.A.P. Arizona, Lyme Education

Awareness Program. Contrary to negative comments from some members

of the AZLDA, we hope to assist patients who cannot afford the

treatment of their choice. We have absolutely no intentions

of " dividing the state. "

>

>

> I hope you are pleased with the doc in northern Arizona. Is the

treatment working for you? Did you contract RMSF in Arizona? How

is that coming along?

>

> Tina

>