Statins

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Crestor and other statins deplete the body of CoEnzyme Q10 (CoQ10)

that supplies energy to muscle cells in particular. It occurs in the

highest concentrations in the heart, and should be supplemented in

anyone with heart problems, high blood pressure and using statins.

Take with a meal and something oily, such as vitamin E.

Fleur

>

> Hi all. I'm on three-lac now. I'm considering taking Chinese Red

Rice

> to help with cloresterol. The Crestor I'm on now is too expensive,

and

> have read of it doing harm to muscles etc. Any thoughts?

>

> Chuck

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you for the reply! I'll get some CoEnzyme Q10 (CoQ10) . What about

stopping the Crestor and going with the Chinese Red Rice that is supposed to

lower chloresterol? Can I do it and take the Candidi treatment?

Again, Thanks for your input.

 

Chuck

From: wdyethree <fleur@...>

Subject: Re: Statins

candidiasis

Date: Thursday, September 11, 2008, 8:10 AM

Hi,

Crestor and other statins deplete the body of CoEnzyme Q10 (CoQ10)

that supplies energy to muscle cells in particular. It occurs in the

highest concentrations in the heart, and should be supplemented in

anyone with heart problems, high blood pressure and using statins.

Take with a meal and something oily, such as vitamin E.

Fleur

>

> Hi all. I'm on three-lac now. I'm considering taking Chinese Red

Rice

> to help with cloresterol. The Crestor I'm on now is too expensive,

and

> have read of it doing harm to muscles etc. Any thoughts?

>

> Chuck

>

[Guest guest]

Try the research at Life Extension.

They have revealed that statin drugs so deplete the body of CoQ-10, that

victims' hearts just stop beating, and the victims fall to the ground dead

or dying.

This is the reason that " all of a sudden, " we have AED devices all over

everywhere, in airports and other public places -- it's because in the 10+

years that statin drugs have been a money-maker for Big Pharma, the

under-reported side effect of stain use has been sudden death for people

merely trying to lower their cholesterol, under the guidance of their

physician.

It has been reported that n Whitaker, MD, of California, has filed

legal action(s) against the FDA, attempting to mandate that they require all

prescribers who give out statin drugs, MUST ALSO require supplemental

CoQ-10, as a condition of taking the statin drugs, WHILE some reseachers are

suggesting that artifically LOWERING cholesterol is causing Alzheimer's

Disease by robbing the brain OF critically-needed brain food, known as

cholesterol.

This is NOT an open and shut issue. Many, many, many people are DYING from

their prescribed use OF statin drugs, prescribers to treat what " other

researchers " have described as a " Manufactured Disease, " to being with,

meaning that the Pharmaceutical Industry has quite cleverly " invented " a

non-existent disease, FOR THE EXPRESS PURPOSE of then them being able to

sell statins. This is NOT a spurious claim; read

Devra ' book on The Secret of the War on Cancer for supporting

information on subterfuge from the drug-providing industry.

Be careful, then. Watch out for statin drugs which can CAUSE heart failure,

without notice.

Dr. Dan

On Sun, Sep 14, 2008 at 3:47 PM, Chuck B <gumboyaya@...> wrote:

> Steve,

>

> You wrote:

> >

> > ... As to statins generally, they do reduce cardiovascular events but

> they

> > increase deaths from other causes....

>

> Can you give us an example of a longitudinal study that supports this?

> All the reviews I have seen are consistent with this one:

>

> Mehta JL, Bursac Z, Hauer-Jensen M, Fort C, Fink LM., " Comparison of

> mortality rates in statin users versus nonstatin users in a United

> States veteran population, " Am J Cardiol. 2006 Oct 1;98(7):923-8.

>

> Statins have been shown to be effective in reducing cardiovascular

> events and overall mortality in primary and secondary prevention trials.

> This study was designed to examine the effect of statin use on overall

> death. Cross-sectional data were obtained from the Department of

> Veterans Affairs Veterans Integrated Service Network 16 database for

> approximately 1.5 million veterans followed up in 10 hospitals in the

> southern United States. Statins were prescribed more often to elderly

> subjects with a history of coronary artery disease, hypertension,

> diabetes mellitus, current smoking, and using cardiovascular drugs (beta

> blockers, aspirin, angiotensin-converting enzyme inhibitors, and calcium

> channel blockers). The predictors of death were, as expected, cancer,

> diabetes mellitus, the use of cardiac drugs, and age. Importantly, using

> statins showed a highly significant negative association with death

> (odds ratio 0.54, 95% confidence interval 0.42 to 0.69, p <0.0001), even

> after adjustment for all other variables. Overall, the mean age at death

> among statin users was 2 years older than among nonstatin users, despite

> statin users being at a higher risk of death. In conclusion, the results

> of this study have shown that using statins is a potent life-saving

> strategy. The benefit observed in this study is unique because almost

> 1/2 the patients were >or=70 years of age when statin therapy was

> initiated.

>

> Chuck

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dan,

You wrote:

>

> Try the research at Life Extension....

Is that like " research " at Optimox?

>

> They have revealed that statin drugs so deplete the body of CoQ-10, that

> victims' hearts just stop beating, and the victims fall to the ground dead

> or dying...

Such conclusions are still being rather hotly debated:

Paiva H, Thelen KM, Van Coster R, Smet J, De Paepe B, Mattila KM,

Laakso J, Lehtimaki T, von Bergmann K, Lutjohann D, Laaksonen R.

High-dose statins and skeletal muscle metabolism in humans: a

randomized, controlled trial. Clin Pharmacol Ther 2005;78:60–68.

Schaefer WH, Lawrence JW, Loughlin AF, Stoffregen DA, Mixson LA,

Dean DC, Raab CE, Yu NX, Lankas GR, Fredrick CB. Evaluation of

ubiquinone concentration and mitochondrial function relative to

cerivastatin-induced skeletal myopathy in rats. Toxicol Appl Pharmacol

2004;194:10–23.

Still, Merck has two patents on combinations of statins with Co-Q10.

Where there's smoke...

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Chuck,

Somewhere, when I can dig it up, I have a review of the top 10 largest

statin trials with a break out of the total mortality figures for those

studies that reported them. Not all studies reported them. It's in one

of my books deep in one of the many piles of books I have sitting around

waiting to shelved.

I did include a copy of an internet article below. The primary downside

to the article is that it's missing the last 5 years of data which I

don't think improve the picture as greater cancer rates are being

discovered. The vytorin SEAS study is being investigated by the FDA due

to a large increase in cancer rates.

Now, there are some " slight " in some few studies in secondary

prevention, but there appears to be only a downside in primary

prevention, especially considering the large number of side effects and

the much larger than normal drop out rate which is never included in the

final results since the drop-outs didn't complete the study.

Steve

Chuck B wrote:

> Steve,

>

> You wrote:

>> ... As to statins generally, they do reduce cardiovascular events but they

>> increase deaths from other causes....

>

> Can you give us an example of a longitudinal study that supports this?

> All the reviews I have seen are consistent with this one:

Statin Drugs:

A Critical Review of the Risk/Benefit Clinical Research

Statin Drugs - A Critical Review of the Risk/Benefit Clinical Research

www.drugintel.com/drugs/statins/statins_critical_review.htm

M. Kauffman, Ph.D.

Professor of Chemistry Emeritus USP Philadelphia, PA, USA

9 Dec 2003

Abbreviations: CVD - Coronary Heart Disease; FH - Familial

Hypercholesteremia; HDL - High Density Lipoprotein; HPS -Heart

Protection Study; LDL - Low Density Lipoprotein; NO - Nitric Oxide; RR -

Relative Risk; TC - Total Cholesterol

The statin drugs are essentially the HMG-CoA reductase inhibitors:

atorvastatin (Lipitor™), cerivastatin (Baycol™, withdrawn 8/01),

fluvastatin (Lescol™), lovastatin (Mevacor™), pravastatin (Pravachol™),

simvastatin (Zocor™), pitavastatin and rosuvastatin (Crestor™), which

were introduced to lower total cholesterol (TC) levels, and especially

LDL-cholesterol (LDL) levels, ostensibly to prevent coronary heart

disease (CVD).

Many well-funded sources attempt to justify the wide use of the statin

drugs to lower TC and LDL by citing references in support of the claims

that high levels of TC and LDL have been correlated with cardiovascular

disease. Such claims are unfounded, since high TC and LDL are

well-correlated with age, which is a risk factor.[1,2] With age removed,

there is almost no correlation, and certainly none that allows a

worthwhile prediction of risk for a given individual. The rare familial

hypercholesterolemia (FH), in which TC > 400 mg/dL, is usually

represented as more deadly than it really is, when the sales of statin

drugs are at stake. Moreover, the removal of those with FH from the high

TC and LDL groups in epidemiological studies also removes any predictive

ability.[1]

The supposed benefits of the statins, beyond a large, but meaningless

lowering of TC and LDL, long recognized as a worthless surrogate

endpoint,[3] are usually given as lowered relative risks (RR) of mostly

non-fatal heart attacks without the slightest indication of the low

magnitude of the more meaningful reduction of absolute risk or of

all-cause death rates. This misrepresentation has been noted.[1,4] So

the usual tout of pravastatin in the WOSCOPS trial, based on a 22% drop

in all-cause mortality, was given without the information that this was

only a 0.9% drop absolute in the 5-year trial period, or 0.18% per year.

The higher all-cause death rates in 2 of the big trials of lovastatin

were ignored, as was the higher breast cancer rate (RR = 1500%) in the

CARE trial with pravastatin.[1] Furthermore, it is also known that

studies of drugs sponsored by their maker are often biased or selected,

so even the 0.9% was probably exaggerated.[5-7]

Besides cancer, the other side effects of statins listed were

incomplete, and should have included constipation, myalgia, myopathy,

polyneuropathy, liver and kidney damage, congestive heart failure and

amnesia. Side-effects are usually said to affect 2-6% of patients. In

fact, a recent meta-analysis noted side-effects in 20% of patients above

the placebo rate (65% vs. 45%), and no change whatever in the all-cause

death rate for atorvastatin. [8] The PROSPER trial on pravastatin showed

no change in the all-cause death rate, and increased cancer and stroke

rates. 9 Statins are commonly used at a dose to lower TC to <160 mg/dL,

a level noted in the report of a NHLBI conference to be associated with

higher cancer rates.[10]

Statins decrease the body's production of the essential coenzyme Q-10

and dolichol, among other things. Low Q-10 levels are strongly

associated with congestive heart failure.[10a]

There is some recognition that statins operate to lower non-fatal heart

attack rates by mechanisms other than cholesterol lowering, but none

that their desirable effect on thromboxane A2 is less than men can

obtain with buffered aspirin,[11] or that the desirable effect of

raising nitric oxide (NO) levels is less than one can obtain with the

supplement L-arginine with no side-effects. These effects of statins are

independent of initial or final TC or LDL levels,[12] and thus there is

no way to determine who " should be treated " with statins, or what the

dose should be.

Since the use of statins for primary prevention of CVD has been shown to

increase all-cause mortality by 1% over a 10-year period,13 and has very

little to no effect in secondary prevention of death,[9,11,14,15] it

would seem that there is no cost-benefit in primary prevention, and very

little for secondary prevention.

The most favorable trial with seemingly impeccable reporting and minimal

financial conflict of interest was the Heart Protection Study (HPS), on

simvastatin for 5 years, in which secondary prevention in men (86% of

patients) of any unwanted vascular event gave a RR = 0.76 (5.5%

absolute, 1.1% per year), and an all-cause death rate drop of 0.38% per

year.16 Since this performance is inferior to that of either Bufferin™

in men [11] or omega-3 fatty acid supplements,[17] both of which have

lesser side-effects, and are far less expensive, the logic of

prescribing simvastatin seems faulty.

In another example, total cardiovascular events and procedures were 2%

absolute lower with atorvastatin than with placebo after 3.5 years,

giving RR = 0.79. This is a poorer performance than that of Bufferin™

for which RR = 0.31 for non-fatal MI in men during 7 years.[11] With

omega-3 fatty acid supplements during 3.5 years, total cardiovascular

events had RR = 0.80, and for all fatal events in this period RR =

0.7917 vs. about 1.0 for atorvastatin.[8]

Atorvastatin and simvastatin are the statin drugs most likely to cause

memory loss.[18]

In the ASCOT-LLA trial19 on hypertensive subjects with average or lower

TC, there was no change in the all-cause death rate vs. placebo after

3.5 years; however there was a higher incidence of the arbitrarily

defined primary endpoint of non-fatal MI plus fatal CVD among the 19%

women in the trial, similar to the effect of aspirin in women.[20]

Careful examination of the literature on statin drugs reveals false

premises, minimal to no benefits, serious side-effects leading to very

low adherence rates,[8,21] and safer, low-cost alternatives for

prevention of CVD deaths.

REFERENCES

1. Ravnskov U, The Cholesterol Myths, Washington, DC, New Trends, 2000;

www.THINCS.org

2. Ravnskov U, High cholesterol may protect against infections and

atherosclerosis. Quart J Med 2003;96:927-934.

3. Fleming TR, DeMets DL. Surrogate End Points in Clinical Trials: Are

We Being Misled? Ann Int Med 1996;125:605-613.

4. Gigerenzer G, Calculated Risks: How to Know When Numbers Deceive You,

New York, NY, Simon & Schuster, 2002.

5. Krimsky S. A conflict of interest. New Scientist 2003;179(2410), online.

6. O'Shea, J. C. & DeMets, D. L. (). Statistical issues relating to

international difference in clinical trials. Am Heart J 2001;142:21-28.

7. Mayor S. Researchers claim clinical trials are reported with

misleading statistics. Br Med J 2002;324:1353.

8. Newman CB, Palmer G, Silbershatz H, Szarek M. Safety of Atorvastatin

Derived from Analysis of 44 Completed Trials in 9,416 Patients. Am J

Cardiol 2003;92:670-6.

9. Shepherd J, Blauw GJ, MB et al. Pravastatin in elderly

individuals at risk of vascular disease (PROSPER): a randomised

controlled trial. Lancet 2002;360(9346):1623-30.

10. s D, Blackburn H, Higgins M et al. Report of the Conference on

Low Blood Cholesterol: Mortality Associations. Circulation 1992:86:1046-60.

10a. Mortensen SA. Perspectives on therapy of cardiovascular diseases

with coenzyme Q10 (Ubiquinone). Clin Investig 1993;71:S116-S123.

Langsjoen PH, Langsjoen AM. Coenzyme Q10 In Cardiovascular Disease With

Emphasis On Heart Failure and Myocardial Ischaemia. Pacific Heart J

1998;7(3):160-168.

11. Kauffman, JM. Bias in Recent Papers on Diets and Drugs in

Peer-Reviewed Medical Journals. J Am Phys Surg 2004;9(1): in press.

12. Nielsen JV. Serun lipid lowering and risk reduction? Where is the

connection? Br Med J Rapid Response, 19 Nov 01, to Kmietowicz Z. Statins

are the new aspirin, Oxford researchers say. Br Med J 2001;323:1145.

13. PR, et al. Statins for primary prevention: at what coronary

risk is safety assured? Br J Pharmacology 2001;52:439-446

14. Liema AH, van Bovenb AJ, Veegerb NGJM et al. Effect of fluvastatin

on ischaemia following acute myocardial infarction: a randomized trial.

Eur Heart J 2002;23(24):1931-1937.

15. Kauffman JM, Do Hypolipidemic Drugs Lower Medical Expenses?

Pharmacotherapy 2001;22(12),1583-1586.

16. HPS Collaborative Group. MRC/BHF Heart Protection Study of

cholesterol lowering with simvastatin in 20 536 high-risk individuals: a

randomised placebo-controlled trial. Lancet 2002;360:7-22.

17. Marchioli R, Barzi F, Bomba E et al. Early Protection Against Sudden

Death by n-3 Polyunsaturated Fatty Acids After Myocardial Infarction.

Circulation 2002;105:1897-1903.

18. Wagstaff LR, Mitton MW, McLendon Arvik B, Doraiswamy PM.

Statin-Associated Memory Loss: Analysis of 60 Case Reports and Review of

the Literature. Pharmacotherapy 2003;23(7):871-880.

19. Sever PS, Dahlof B, Poulter NR et al. Prevention of coronary and

stroke events with atorvastatin in hypertenisve patients who have

average or lower-than-average cholesterol concentrations, inthe

Anglo-Scandinavian Cardiac Outcomes Trial­Lipid Lowering Arm

(ASCOT-LLA): a multicentre randomised controlled trial. Lancet

2003;361:1149-1158.

20. Kauffman JM, " Aspirin Study Flawed " , Letter to Editor, J. Scientific

Exploration 16(2), 247-249 (2002).

21. Jackevicius CA, Mamdani M, Tu JV. Adherence With Statin Therapy in

Elderly Patients With and Without Acute Coronary Syndromes. J Am Med

Assoc 2002;288:462-467.

http://www.recoverymedicine.com/cholesterol_lowering_drug_side_effects.htm

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

" If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

[Guest guest]

Dan,

You wrote:

>

> Try the research at Life Extension....

Is that like " research " at Optimox?

>

> They have revealed that statin drugs so deplete the body of CoQ-10, that

> victims' hearts just stop beating, and the victims fall to the ground dead

> or dying...

Such conclusions are still being rather hotly debated:

Paiva H, Thelen KM, Van Coster R, Smet J, De Paepe B, Mattila KM,

Laakso J, Lehtimaki T, von Bergmann K, Lutjohann D, Laaksonen R.

High-dose statins and skeletal muscle metabolism in humans: a

randomized, controlled trial. Clin Pharmacol Ther 2005;78:60–68.

Schaefer WH, Lawrence JW, Loughlin AF, Stoffregen DA, Mixson LA,

Dean DC, Raab CE, Yu NX, Lankas GR, Fredrick CB. Evaluation of

ubiquinone concentration and mitochondrial function relative to

cerivastatin-induced skeletal myopathy in rats. Toxicol Appl Pharmacol

2004;194:10–23.

Still, Merck has two patents on combinations of statins with Co-Q10.

Where there's smoke...

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Chuck B wrote:

> Dan,

>

> You wrote:

>> Try the research at Life Extension....

>

> Is that like " research " at Optimox?

We would need to see the material in question in look at the references.

I read LEFs material regularly and that has led me to Pubmed for regular

reading. The research on CoQ10 is quite extensive and for me, very

compelling that lowering CoQ10 levels with drugs has negative consequences.

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

" If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

[Guest guest]

Steve,

You wrote:

> ... The primary downside

> to the article is that it's missing the last 5 years of data which I

> don't think improve the picture as greater cancer rates are being

> discovered....

The primary downside is that it is not peer reviewed, which is also true

of many of the sources he cites.

>... The vytorin SEAS study is being investigated by the FDA due

> to a large increase in cancer rates.

In the SEAS study 39 died of cancer taking Vytorin, while 23 died of

cancer taking a placebo. While that is statistically significant,

justifying further study, it is hardly a " large increase. " Contrary to

what you speculate about the last five years of data, interim results

from two other large ongoing trials of Vytorin – the Study of Heart and

Renal Protection (SHARP) and the Improved Reduction in High-Risk

Subjects Presenting with Acute Coronary Syndrome (IMPROVE-IT) – so far

have not shown any increased risk of cancer with Vytorin. The SHARP

trial ends in 2010; IMPROVE-IT in 2012.

Sorry, but I don't find your conclusions compelling.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Hi there,

Sorry, I can't really tell you, I've no idea. Maybe someone else can

help?

Fleur

> >

> > Hi all. I'm on three-lac now. I'm considering taking Chinese Red

> Rice

> > to help with cloresterol. The Crestor I'm on now is too

expensive,

> and

> > have read of it doing harm to muscles etc. Any thoughts?

> >

> > Chuck

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Chuck,

I appreciate any skepticism you may have -- trusting government health

pronouncements is SO reliable in these days of failed financials, isn't it ?

As for me, I LIKE the alternative research which debunks the pill pushers.

Dr. Dan

(843) 455-9208

drdan4health.com

On Sun, Sep 14, 2008 at 6:17 PM, Chuck B <gumboyaya@...> wrote:

> Dan,

>

> You wrote:

> >

> > Try the research at Life Extension....

>

> Is that like " research " at Optimox?

>

> >

> > They have revealed that statin drugs so deplete the body of CoQ-10, that

> > victims' hearts just stop beating, and the victims fall to the ground

> dead

> > or dying...

>

> Such conclusions are still being rather hotly debated:

>

> Paiva H, Thelen KM, Van Coster R, Smet J, De Paepe B, Mattila KM,

> Laakso J, Lehtimaki T, von Bergmann K, Lutjohann D, Laaksonen R.

> High-dose statins and skeletal muscle metabolism in humans: a

> randomized, controlled trial. Clin Pharmacol Ther 2005;78:60–68.

>

> Schaefer WH, Lawrence JW, Loughlin AF, Stoffregen DA, Mixson LA,

> Dean DC, Raab CE, Yu NX, Lankas GR, Fredrick CB. Evaluation of

> ubiquinone concentration and mitochondrial function relative to

> cerivastatin-induced skeletal myopathy in rats. Toxicol Appl Pharmacol

> 2004;194:10–23.

>

> Still, Merck has two patents on combinations of statins with Co-Q10.

> Where there's smoke...

>

> Chuck

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dan, just wanted to let you know your " main " website that you link to on

your site below is just a go-daddy page with ads.

www.dankukulka.com

Sue

On 9/15/08 6:59 AM, " Dan Kukulka " <enemaguy@...> wrote:

> Chuck,

>

> I appreciate any skepticism you may have -- trusting government health

> pronouncements is SO reliable in these days of failed financials, isn't it ?

>

> As for me, I LIKE the alternative research which debunks the pill pushers.

>

> Dr. Dan

> (843) 455-9208

> drdan4health.com

>

>

>

> On Sun, Sep 14, 2008 at 6:17 PM, Chuck B <gumboyaya@...> wrote:

>

>> Dan,

>>

>> You wrote:

>>>

>>> Try the research at Life Extension....

>>

>> Is that like " research " at Optimox?

>>

>>>

>>> They have revealed that statin drugs so deplete the body of CoQ-10, that

>>> victims' hearts just stop beating, and the victims fall to the ground

>> dead

>>> or dying...

>>

>> Such conclusions are still being rather hotly debated:

>>

>> Paiva H, Thelen KM, Van Coster R, Smet J, De Paepe B, Mattila KM,

>> Laakso J, Lehtimaki T, von Bergmann K, Lutjohann D, Laaksonen R.

>> High-dose statins and skeletal muscle metabolism in humans: a

>> randomized, controlled trial. Clin Pharmacol Ther 2005;78:60–68.

>>

>> Schaefer WH, Lawrence JW, Loughlin AF, Stoffregen DA, Mixson LA,

>> Dean DC, Raab CE, Yu NX, Lankas GR, Fredrick CB. Evaluation of

>> ubiquinone concentration and mitochondrial function relative to

>> cerivastatin-induced skeletal myopathy in rats. Toxicol Appl Pharmacol

>> 2004;194:10–23.

>>

>> Still, Merck has two patents on combinations of statins with Co-Q10.

>> Where there's smoke...

>>

>> Chuck

>>

>> ------------------------------------

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

OK, Thanks, I think

drdan4health.com may be more to your liking

Dr. Dan

(843) 455-9208

On Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 11:49 AM, eastodurango@... <

eastodurango@...> wrote:

> Dan, just wanted to let you know your " main " website that you link to on

> your site below is just a go-daddy page with ads.

>

> www.dankukulka.com

>

> Sue

>

>

> On 9/15/08 6:59 AM, " Dan Kukulka " <enemaguy@...<enemaguy%40gmail.com>>

> wrote:

>

> > Chuck,

> >

> > I appreciate any skepticism you may have -- trusting government health

> > pronouncements is SO reliable in these days of failed financials, isn't

> it ?

> >

> > As for me, I LIKE the alternative research which debunks the pill

> pushers.

> >

> > Dr. Dan

> > (843) 455-9208

> > drdan4health.com

> >

> >

> >

> > On Sun, Sep 14, 2008 at 6:17 PM, Chuck B

<gumboyaya@...<gumboyaya%40cox.net>>

> wrote:

> >

> >> Dan,

> >>

> >> You wrote:

> >>>

> >>> Try the research at Life Extension....

> >>

> >> Is that like " research " at Optimox?

> >>

> >>>

> >>> They have revealed that statin drugs so deplete the body of CoQ-10,

> that

> >>> victims' hearts just stop beating, and the victims fall to the ground

> >> dead

> >>> or dying...

> >>

> >> Such conclusions are still being rather hotly debated:

> >>

> >> Paiva H, Thelen KM, Van Coster R, Smet J, De Paepe B, Mattila KM,

> >> Laakso J, Lehtimaki T, von Bergmann K, Lutjohann D, Laaksonen R.

> >> High-dose statins and skeletal muscle metabolism in humans: a

> >> randomized, controlled trial. Clin Pharmacol Ther 2005;78:60–68.

> >>

> >> Schaefer WH, Lawrence JW, Loughlin AF, Stoffregen DA, Mixson LA,

> >> Dean DC, Raab CE, Yu NX, Lankas GR, Fredrick CB. Evaluation of

> >> ubiquinone concentration and mitochondrial function relative to

> >> cerivastatin-induced skeletal myopathy in rats. Toxicol Appl Pharmacol

> >> 2004;194:10–23.

> >>

> >> Still, Merck has two patents on combinations of statins with Co-Q10.

> >> Where there's smoke...

> >>

> >> Chuck

> >>

> >> ------------------------------------

> >>

> >>

[Guest guest]

Hi ann - have a look at the benefits of using Guggul - see

http://www.thehealthierlife.co.uk/natural-health-articles/heart-disease/guggul-lowering-cholesterol-levels-00842.html

and also http://www.ayurvediccure.com/guggul.htm.

Show these to your Mum.

Luv - sheila

My mother, who also has HypoT was prescribed

Statins when she was first diagnosed as she had elevated cholesterol levels,

she has been on them for about 7 years, but for quite some while was

complaining of pains in her body especially her right arm. I did tell her that

taking statins might give her muscle pains as this is what I have read else

where on the net and heard from other people, her g.p. has never discussed with

her about coming off of these drugs. Anyway she decided to stop taking them

over a week ago as these pains in her body were getting so bad, the good news

is that now she has stopped taking these drugs she has had no pains in her body

for nearly two weeks and has increased energy and feels so much more happier

and healthier. I think it is better to have a lower cholesterol diet than to

take unnecessary medicines, they always have side effects which might make you

ill with something else, I always think the 'natural' way is best to cure your

body. I have also read on the files about statins, it is very interesting and

informative and necessary to know about. Thanks. Ann.

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18:32:00

[Guest guest]

Hi

I tried to avoid taking statins but when I was diagnosed as diabetic I was given them although my level was only 5, being diabetic brings other risks so not taking statins for me wasnt an option. I have to say I have taken simvastin for over a month and so far so good, no side effects, my doc did tell me the side effects, and I now feel I would rather have them than a heart attack! I did try and reduce my level for a month on my own before taking the statins but my level remained the same

My mother, who also has HypoT was prescribed Statins when she was first diagnosed as she had elevated cholesterol levels, she has been on them for about 7 years, but for quite some while was complaining of pains in her body especially her right arm. I did tell her that taking statins might give her muscle pains as this is what I have read else where on the net and heard from other people, her g.p. has never discussed with her about coming off of these drug

[Guest guest]

Only a personal observation............ but I had an extremely bad reaction when

my doc put me on statins. I stopped taking them and sent in a yellow form.

I really worry that this is just another excuse for doctors to ignore hypo

sufferers. " Cholesterol going up? Bang them on statins and they go away an

don't need to be bothered with any more!! "

The first (I think) tangible indication of a thyroid problem is when the

cholesterol starts sneaking up.

PS. I had a GP survey come in the post on Friday, it asked all sorts of radical

questions like, " Does your GP listen to you? / Does your GP discuss and agree a

management plan for your illness / health? Did your GP / Nurse explain any tests

or treatments and give alternatives? "

As you can imagine the answers were all an emphatic NO!!

Whatever next? A GP actually listening to a patient?

Nah..... never happen in my lifetime!!

Glynis

[Guest guest]

Hi Glynis

A GP not listening to his/her patients may be a GP lacking future revalidation

of competence to continue in practice !

Bob

my recently retired GP warned against Statins

>

> Only a personal observation............ but I had an extremely bad reaction

when my doc put me on statins. I stopped taking them and sent in a yellow form.

@@@

A GP actually listening to a patient?

>

> Nah..... never happen in my lifetime!!

>

> Glynis

>

[Guest guest]

Unfortunately I don't think that will be the case, there would be too many GPs

lost through the process and I personally think the NHS and PCTs would back down

big time and let sub-standard doctors carry on practising.

Its a nice thought though........................

[Guest guest]

From my personal experience my colesterol wasnt raised and I am hypothyroid, when first diagnosed my colesterol was 4, this shows we are all different when it comes to symptoms etc.

I was only ever offered statin when my diabeties was discovered and I have reluctently had to take them, all GP's cannot be classed as the same i.e uncaring etc, some of us may be lucky to have a good one

Only a personal observation. ......... .. but I had an extremely bad reaction when my doc put me on statins. I stopped taking them and sent in a yellow form.I really worry that this is just another excuse for doctors to ignore hypo sufferers. "Cholesterol going up? Bang them on statins and they go away an don't need to be bothered with any more!!"The first (I think) tangible indication of a thyroid problem is when the cholesterol starts sneaking up.PS. I had a GP survey come in the post on Friday, it asked all sorts of radical questions like, "Does your GP listen to you? / Does your GP discuss and agree a management plan for your illness / health? Did your GP / Nurse explain any tests or treatments and give alternatives? "As you can imagine the answers were all an emphatic NO!!Whatever next? A GP actually listening to a patient?Nah..... never happen in my

lifetime!!Glynis

[Guest guest]

Like , I have thryoid problems but absolutely no problem with cholesterol

and nobody has ever said I need statins.

Whilst I can really understand the frustration that many people - esp those with

thyroid problems - feel with treatment within the NHS by GPs, I am very lucky to

have an absolutely lovely GP.

I get quite upset when people run down NHS practitioners because they feel they

have not had the treatment that they merit. Most doctors go into the field

because they are generally interested in medicine and in people. The intentions

are extraordinarily good more often than not and they work incredibly hard.

However, they have to work within a system with fairly rigid guidelines and if

they step outside those guidelines they put themselves in jeopardy in terms of

their own work. They do not realistically have the freedom to spend ages with

individual patients. They have relevant training to operate within GMC

guidelines and do not usually have nutritional training or an understanding of

the finer tuning of many ailments.

I have had some very caring treatment by many very good and dedicated

professionals. I have also had many personal " upsets " on the way, mainly because

my EXPECTATIONS were out of kilter with what the SYSTEM is set up to provide.

I feel that as patients we need to UNDERSTAND much more about HOW doctors work

and to be much more realistic about what to expect from them. This also means

understanding much more abut the LIMITATIONS of the system and the guidelines

put forward by the GMC. The quarrels, where they take place, are rightfully at

the level of an informed understanding of the way in which the GMC develops its

guidelines and informed attempts to try to get those guidelines changed where as

patients many of us suffer and feel that needs are not being met. To this end,

Sheila and this website are, I feel, making admirable attempts to really change

the SYSTEM.

On an individual level, I went into my GP with long standing difficulties,

saying that I KNEW that there were limits to what she was ABLE to do within the

system, but that I would be really grateful if she could find some way of

helping and/or providing support given that my symptoms were becoming

progressively more intolerable. I got a LOT of help and a VERY sympathetic

attitude.

Maybe treating our GPs like the humans they are would be a good starting point

in developing better relationships and finding ways in which we, as individuals,

can access help and support.

Accepting that GPS cannot deal with tests outside certain NHS parameters and

that if we want to look at nutritional supplements etc we may need to access

help outside the NHS is another way in which we can help ourselves along the

road towards better health.

Vicky

> I really worry that this is just another excuse for doctors to ignore hypo

sufferers. " Cholesterol going up? Bang them on statins and they go away an don't

need to be bothered with any more!! "

>

>

> Whatever next? A GP actually listening to a patient?

>

> Nah..... never happen in my lifetime!!

>

> Glynis

>

[Guest guest]

,Check out this site - http://www.thincs.org/Jackie--- On Sun, 6/27/10, Tattoo <moineau@...> wrote:From: Tattoo <moineau@...>Subject: [low dose naltrexone] Re:Statinslow dose naltrexone Date: Sunday, June 27, 2010, 7:27 AM

dr. murphree, may i ask what you think a "safe" level is? mine is huge, genetic on my dad's side--he was a marathon runner but his cholesterol was high even though he ate a nonfat diet!--but i've refused to take a statin... having been in pain for 14 years w/ fibro, i'm scared to death of more pain. and brain atrophy. thanks ~LT

http://moineauenfrance.blogspot.com

[Guest guest]

Soy milk is the worst thing you can drink.cholesterol is

many times result of underactive thyroid and soy blocks the thyroid.

I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter.SPAMfighter has removed 222 of my spam emails to date.Do you have a slow PC? Try free scan!

[Guest guest]

Hi Helen

See http://healthydietsandscience.blogspot.com/2011/05/how-doctors-actually-get-paid-more-for.html

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120114138064112219.html

Have to go out but there must be something online about

NHS doctors being paid to prescribe Statins. I have heard about this and I am

sure it has been discussed on the forum previously.

Luv - Sheila

Happy Friday all, I know there has been

discussion about effects of statins in the group and I also know what Dr P

thinks about them. Here is Briffa's latest post on the subject with some

references, I thought it might help inform the odd GP??? Is it true that the

NHS gives a bonus for everyone being prescribed statins? It would be good if

anyone knew this for a fact .

http://www.drbriffa.com/2011/11/08/statins-appear-to-harm-about-as-many-people-as-they-help/

[Guest guest]

sorry but just thought more about statins.Anyone taking statins should have an annual liver function test and an annual kidney function test. why is this? because the drug causes harm to both those major organs as well as muscles. Further there is muc evidence about the dramatic and

very serious effects to the brain also, whereby a dementia and amnesia is exzperiened. Look at spacedoc.com (I think) He was a NASA astronaut but also an MD and he published many scientific papers. As an astronaut he had to reach a certain physical fitness had regular medicals and sure enough they found his cholesterol was slightly increased. He was prescribed Statins. Wow This took him on a journey.....he suffered serious side effects and even then the docs he spoke to said NO ITS NOT THE STATINS.......he stopped them and has since been reporting on the problems with statins drugs. he has published at least 5 books I am aware of on the subject. His muscle weakness has progressed and I understand he is now in a wheelchair and quite physically disabled.Statins were the first BILLION DOLLAR drug....that is the first drug to reap billions of dollars in profot for drug companies.......the drug companies then fund scientific research.......because they fund it they own the results.....there is no doubt the results they publish are not altogether reflective of the true effects of any drug and the outcomes of the studies.........always ask who funded the research when quoting findings.....if they are funded by drug companies do beware.....there have been many exposures of the

practices the drug companies use regarding outcomes of studies.....With the big profits the drug companies are able to pay docs for many things......their study days...can be a two week (holiday) abroad with family....pay for their surgery nurse for six months or buy equipment....fund the research that doc is wanting to carry out etc etc all of these bribery oops I mean

incentives doctors receive encourage them to speak well of the drug and continue to prescribe them......then there are ears in government.....accessible to the rich and powerful....who is rich and powerful; YUP THE DRUG COMPANIES.......Doctors are encouraged to reach targets by the government....one of those targets is to increase the number of people taking Statins......the more the merrier as the GP gets more financial rewards. everyone is happy.....EXCEPT THE POOR BUGGER TAKING THE STATINS.

Happy Friday all, I know there has been discussion about effects of statins in the group and I also know what Dr P thinks about them.

[Guest guest]

Well my hubby was being treated for 20 years for high blood pressure and used to

go every 6 months to see his GP, he prescribed statins when they were fairly

new, he had an heart attack in May,they said his heart was so bad they could

only treat him with pills, he died last month so the statins didn't do a thing

for him, and the GP wasn't that good or he would have done more checks on his

heart, and not just take his blood pressure, didn't have any faith in GP's

before but now it's absolutely zilch.

- In thyroid treatment , " Lilian " <lilian15@...> wrote:

>

> My friend was told by her GP (my Ex GP) that she MUST take statins. She is

diabetic. She previously took X statin and was fine with it. Then the GP

switched her over to another statin. She was not well on it, had aches and

pains etc.

>

>EDITED TO REMOVE MOST OF PREVIOUS LONG MESSAGE. COULD YOU PLEASE MAKE SURE

THIS IS DONE BEFORE YOU CLICK ON SEND.

Thanks

Moderator

[Guest guest]

I am really really sorry to hear of your loss. I am not in the least bit surprised your husband suffered as he did. I am sorry your GP wastn more vigilant.There is a great deal of tush talked about regarding heart disease. Broda had a great deal of

insight, he also did a great deal of research on the subject of hypothyrodisim. He notice the two are linked; that is heart disease and hypothyroidism. Certainly in my family the two go hand in hand. Several things occur which impact on the heart and its vessels. Firstly hypothyroidism is associated with inflammation, high tissue calcium, low magnesium, low immune fuinction, poor dietary/nutrition absorption, hypercholesterolemia, yeast infection, adrenal dysfunction (all affecting the heart ultimately) the cells need thyroid hormone to function properly and to reproduce properly. Commonly people are first alerted to their hypothyroidism due to a heart attack. If this isnt bad enough heart failure is also common and it is one or the other which usually become terminal for hypothyroids.I am not saying your hubby had hypo, but what happens with statins is the blocking of the pathway which manufacture cholesterol. Indoing so it also blocks other pathways including the pathway producing CoQ10. CoQ10 is natually manufactured by our body because it is essential to good cell health The heart is one large muscle. it is unusual in that is has many multiple mitochondria. These little beauties are powerhouses. They need coQ10 to netralise the waste they produce. When the muscle cells do not receive their coQ10, they become weak and less able to function properly. This alongside the low cholesterol levels produced by statin drugs will cause either heart failure or heart attack, depending on the individuals

disposition.In your husbands case it appears he suffered a heart attack possibly due to taking statins.....You can report this on the yellow card scheme, as I mentioned previously.....it is important that everyone reports drug side effects....only by doing so can we truly see what devastation these damn medicines cause us.I am sorry about the loss of your husband, you must be devasted and

more so in the knowledge that there is some possiblity things could have been different.

Well my hubby was being treated for 20 years for high blood pressure and used to go every 6 months to see his GP, he prescribed statins when they were fairly new, he had an heart attack in May,they said his heart was so bad they could only treat him with pills, he died last month so the statins didn't do a thing for him, and the GP wasn't that good or he would have done more checks on his heart, and not just take his blood pressure, didn't have any faith in GP's before but now it's absolutely zilch.