Fluoride

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/26/1999 03:36:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

AKchum@... writes:

<< From: AKchum@...

Hi, Everyone. I'm wondering if anyone on the list has identified fluoride

as

a cause or irritant of their hypothyroidism? I'd love you hear from you.

M. >>

I had heard somewhere that flouride had been identified as cause or

protagonist of hypothyroidism, but I cannot remember where I had heard this.

I go to a very progressive holistic dentist, and I inquired about the

toxicity of topical flouride treatments provided by many dentists. This is

that procedure in the dentist's office where they fill rubber molds with a

thick liquid flouride, and these molds are placed in your mouth surrounding

your upper and lower teeth for 5 minutes. Their office highly recommends

flouride when used in this manner, and in flouride toothpaste, which is not

ingested. However the flouridated water controversy is a totally different

matter because this is drank and goes into the body. They are opposed to the

flouridated drinking water.

Ira

[Guest guest]

I use Natural White toothpaste (purple tube) which has no fluoride and

Biotene mouthwash which also has no fluoride. I have my dentist not use

fluoride on me when I get my teeth cleaned or any other time.

IRAMFINE@... wrote:

>

> From: IRAMFINE@...

>

> In a message dated 10/26/1999 03:36:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

> AKchum@... writes:

>

> << From: AKchum@...

>

> Hi, Everyone. I'm wondering if anyone on the list has identified fluoride

> as

> a cause or irritant of their hypothyroidism? I'd love you hear from you.

>

> M. >>

>

> I had heard somewhere that flouride had been identified as cause or

> protagonist of hypothyroidism, but I cannot remember where I had heard this.

>

> I go to a very progressive holistic dentist, and I inquired about the

> toxicity of topical flouride treatments provided by many dentists. This is

> that procedure in the dentist's office where they fill rubber molds with a

> thick liquid flouride, and these molds are placed in your mouth surrounding

> your upper and lower teeth for 5 minutes. Their office highly recommends

> flouride when used in this manner, and in flouride toothpaste, which is not

> ingested. However the flouridated water controversy is a totally different

> matter because this is drank and goes into the body. They are opposed to the

> flouridated drinking water.

>

> Ira

>

> >

[Guest guest]

Dear :

It appears that your contentions are correct, that fluoride as either sodium

or calcium are harmful. Here are remarks from Ray Peat PhD who is a very

knowledgeable biochemist.

Best wishes,

Earl

FLUORIDE:

It's less soluble [calcium fluoride], but it does interact with other ions

and deliver toxic

fluoride if it enters the body. Sea water contains fluoride at nontoxic

levels, and when it's evaporated the salts are probably too complicated to

analyze.

At 08:00 PM 12/1/99 +1300, you wrote:

>Dear Ray:

>Can you clear up a controversy. We all " know " that sodium fluoride is

dangerous, and contributes to mottled teeth, brain damage, probably liver

>toxicity. Do you know if calcium fluoride also has any toxic aspects. Does

sea water or seaweed contain a free fluorine or would it be in a salt form

of either calcium or sodium or some other salt??

[Guest guest]

Earl,

I'm pleased, but actually surprised, that your friend confirmed the truth of

what I was saying. For every expert you can find who will give you honest

facts about fluoride, there are thousands who will give you the party line.

What we've been discussing is probably one of the most misunderstood aspects

of fluoride. While calcium fluoride, due to it's insolubility, seems to be

less toxic than the other fluoride compounds, all fluorides can be toxic, or

become toxic over time, if consumed in sufficient quantities. (I say

'seems' because the studies I've seen only address skeletal fluorosis but not

potential soft tissue damage.) The 'toothpaste commercial' propaganda has

trained us to think of fluoride as a friend, but that's hardly the case.

Another aspect of fluorides that is not widely understood, is that only about

50% can be excreted, while the other 50% becomes incorporated in body

tissues, especially bone, tooth, and cartilage tissue. As we grow older,

this burden of toxic accumulation begins to take a toll in the form of

ostoporosis, bone fractures, arthritis, gum disease, tooth loss, chronic

fatigue, allergies, fibromyalgia, obesity, alzheimer's, hypochlorhydria (low

stomach acid), hypothyroidism, cancer, and other disease processes. There

are also truly frightening data indicating that fluoride is implicated in

anorexia, bulemia, fertility problems, miscarriage, birth defects, learning

disabilities, ADHD, and autism to name a few. If this sounds far fetched,

all I can say is start reading the literature. If anything, I think that we

have underestimated the toxic potential of fluorides.

To date the body of research done on fluorides has revealed toxic effects on

the neurological, gastrointestinal, metabolic, reproductive and developmental

processes of the body. It's a crying shame that governmental authorities the

world over are being boondoggled into implementing fluoridation. At best,

only the grossest negligence on the part of our dental and medical societies

could explain their persistent denial of the danger to the public. At worst,

we are the victims of a truly ingenious and profitable toxic waste disposal

program.

In our modern world, we are already getting far too much fluoride. The world

over mankind is digging deep into the earth's crust to mine fluorspar and

other fluoride containing mineral deposits to satisfy the needs of Industry.

Smokestacks pump fluorides into the air, and runoff pumps it into lakes,

streams, and oceans. Fluoride compounds are put on our cookware and in our

toothpaste. Fluoride levels in foods has skyrocketed due to the use of

fluorides as pesticides, insecticides, herbicides, and fertilizers. The

average American is getting levels of fluoride on a daily basis that far

exceed the EPA's maximum safe limit.

The really great thing about fluoride is that we have a certain amount of

control over our risk by simply being aware of the danger. I dream of the

day everyone will come to their senses and stop putting fluorides into our

water and on our crops. Those steps alone would make such a huge difference

in our health.

For a quick analysis of the research that has been done on fluoride toxicity

you can go to:

<A HREF= " http://www.cco.net/~trufax/fluoride/flmaster.html " >Leading Edge

Fluoridation Paradigm Analysis</A>

http://www.cco.net/~trufax/fluoride/flmaster.html

M.

[Guest guest]

This is another interesting article:

Originally, decay-prevention tests with fluoride were carried out with

calcium fluoride, yet sodium fluoride is the chemical added to city water

supplies. Sodium fluoride is an extremely toxic by-product of the aluminum

industry and was expensive to dispose of until cities were persuaded to put

it in the public water for tooth decay prevention. Up until this time, its

primary use was as rat poison. After it was approved for use in city water

supplies, the price of sodium fluoride went up 1,000% almost overnight.

Many tests have been performed with sodium fluoride; some indicate improved

teeth while others show a worsening effect. As a result of research in

Europe, sodium fluoride treatment of water is now illegal in Sweden,

Denmark, and Holland, Germany and Belgium have discontinued their fluoride

experiments on the human population, and France and Norway have never found

sufficient evidence to warrant water fluoridation. In truth, most tests are

difficult to interpret since the mineral content of the water itself is one

of the deciding factors. If there is adequate calcium in water, fluoride

will form calcium fluoride, which may be of some benefit. Nevertheless,

studies indicate that fluoride per se is one of nature's principal aging

factors.

Undesirable Properties of Sodium Fluoridation:

* Inhibits proper functioning of the thyroid gland and all enzyme

systems, this makes weight reduction more difficult and is thought to be

partially responsible for the abnormal height of some young people, as well

as a contributor to very road bottoms.

* Damages the immune system. Serious disorders that may first arise

are sclera derma, lupus, and various forms of arthritis. Ultimately, the

likelihood of cancer and other degenerative conditions is increased.

* Sodium fluoride in public water is usually in quantities of one part

per million. According to principles of homeopathic medicine, this

concentration of fluoride can be a potent pathogen when used regularly.

Fluorine and its compounds in food are entirely different from chemically

produced sodium fluoride. Once an element is extracted from the soil and

incorporated into plant life, its properties change greatly. Fluorine

compounds in food, for instance, have important nutritional functions. The

combination of organic calcium and fluorine creates a very hard surface on

teeth and also in the bones. This is why, when there is tooth decay, we

assume a fluorine shortage. Also, fluorine helps protect the entire body

from the invasion and proliferation of germs and viruses. Fluorine in food

is volatile and evaporates with cooking, sodium fluoridated water, in

contrast, loses no fluoride with heat. One of the most concentrated sources

of fluorine is goat's milk. Other sources are seaweed, rice, rye, parsley,

avocados, cabbage, and black-eyed peas; herbs high in fluorine include

juniper berries, licorice, lemon grass, bancha tea twigs, and other tea

plants.

> Flouride

>

> For those of you who are interested.....

>

>

> A crack appears in the fluoride front -- After surveying the growing

> evidence,

> a high-profile advocate has second thoughts about the safety of fluoride.

>

> By Downey Special to the Toronto Star April 25 , 1999

>

> Two years ago, parents in the United States began noticing the word poison

> on

> their toothpaste tubes. The reason: U.S. drug regulators were beginning to

> doubt

> the safety of fluoride, particularly to children, and demanded warnings on

> the

> labels.

>

> Health Canada has not followed the U.S. lead, although fluoride toothpaste

> here

> does carry a mild warning to avoid swallowing it. But attitudes toward

> fluoride

> in this country are also beginning to change.

>

> Dr. Hardy Limeback is a leading Canadian fluoride authority who is often

> cited

> by health officials in their defense of fluoridated water. He is also a

> long-standing consultant to the Canadian Dental Association and a

> professor of

> dentistry at the University of Toronto.

>

> But in an interview last week, he conceded that fluoride may be destroying

> our

> bones, our teeth and our overall health. Although he still believes

> fluoride in

> toothpaste is effective against tooth decay, he says it doesn't need to be

> added

> to our water and we may be taking unnecessary risks by doing so.

>

> " There is no point swallowing fluoridated water. The only benefit comes

> with

> direct contact with the teeth.''

>

> " Torontonians have double the fluoride levels in their hip bones compared

> to

> Montreal, where water is not fluoridated.'' What effect these high

> fluoride

> deposits in our bones will have is unclear, he says, " but we know that in

> areas

> of the world where water is naturally high in fluoride, skeletal fluorosis

> is a

> widespread problem.'' Skeletal fluorosis is a debilitating condition that

> occurs

> when fluoride accumulates in bones, making them extremely weak and

> brittle. In

> parts of China, India and Turkey where water is naturally high in

> fluoride,

> residents tend to age early and die before the age of 50, weak, arthritic

> and

> hunched over. " Old'' men of 30 drag themselves around, leaning on sticks;

> their

> bones shatter like glass when they fall. Women give birth to dead babies

> after

> pregnancies of only four months.

>

> Children under three should never use fluoridated toothpaste. Or drink

> fluoridated water. And baby formula must never be made up using Toronto

> tap

> water. Never. The earliest symptom? Mottled and brittle teeth, a condition

> known

> as dental fluorosis.The condition weakens teeth, making them porous and

> thus

> easily stained. The mottled spots start off white but typically turn

> brown. It's

> permanent and recurring, and treating it is very costly.

>

> If this description sounds familiar, there's a good reason. Limeback says

> " most'' of the children he treats in his Mississauga practice suffer

> dental

> fluorosis, and by some estimates, 60 per cent of all children living in

> fluoridated areas have it.

>

> What causes it in these children is not just the water. Young children do

> not

> have the reflexes to avoid swallowing toothpaste when brushing their

> teeth. Some

> even enjoy the taste of it. And because they're developing rapidly,

> children are

> more susceptible to the negative effects of fluoride buildup.

>

> " Children under three should never use fluoridated toothpaste. Never. In

> fluoridated areas, people should never use fluoride supplements. We tried

> to get

> them banned for children but (the dentists) wouldn't even look at the

> evidence

> we presented, " says Limeback, emphasizing that we are now spending more

> treating

> dental fluorosis than we would spend treating cavities if water were not

> fluoridated.

>

> For decades, anti-fluoride activists have blamed fluoride (which is only

> slightly less poisonous than arsenic) for a variety of problems, including

> osteoporosis, bone cancer, kidney problems, arthritis, genetic damage and

> birth

> defects, premature aging, lowered intelligence, and Attention Deficit

> Hyperactive Disorder.

>

> Although there are numerous studies suggesting links between fluoride and

> various illnesses, pro-fluoridationists have always contended - correctly

> - that

> the exact effects of long-term fluoridation on our bodies have not been

> established beyond a shadow of a doubt.

>

> As , a high-profile fluoride booster and professor of dentistry

> at

> the University of British Columbia, says, " There is no proof that fluoride

> causes brittle bones or cancer, " at current concentrations. (Toronto's

> water

> supply is 1 part per million (ppm) fluoride. Toothpaste, typically,

> contains

> 1,500 ppm.) Limeback, who until very recently would have been considered

> an ally

> of 's, vehemently disagrees. " We absolutely know about the tragic

> consequences of higher levels of fluoride, and we know it builds up over

> time.

> These people haven't done any studies to find out what effect fluoride

> accumulation will have at current levels. How

> can they say it's safe when the studies haven't been done? Right now, we

> have

> people who have been ingesting fluoride for 35 years. "

>

> Limeback points out that almost all the beverages we drink (beer, pop,

> juice)

> are made with fluoridated water. Fish and other foods also contain

> fluoride.

> Many of the vegetables we eat are fertilized with compounds containing

> fluoride;

> they are irrigated with, and washed and cooked in, fluoridated water. So

> we are

> getting far more fluoride than it appears.

>

> And, considering safe fluoride levels in terms of concentrations (parts

> per

> million) is a dubious practice, since at least half the fluoride we ingest

> fuses

> with bones and teeth and never leaves the body.

>

> So although a big one-time dose of fluoride can kill - as happened to a

> New York

> boy during a fluoride treatment and to people in Alaska when too much

> fluoride

> was accidentally added to the water - Limeback says it's the cumulative

> effect

> we should be most worried about.

>

> Contrary to popular belief, there is no proof that fluoride fights

> cavities. In

> the U.S., the government recently ordered toothpaste manufacturers to stop

> claiming it does until they could prove it. (None bothered to try.)

>

> (This may seem ironic, given that companies who want to market new drugs

> must

> prove they are safe first whereas a drug already in our water will stay

> there

> until we prove it isn't safe.)

>

> Absolute proof may be hard to come by, but the evidence is abundant and

> compelling. A U.S.study showed a link to bone and liver cancer.

>

> A half dozen studies in the Journal of the American Medical Association

> show

> more hip fractures in fluoridated areas - up to 300 per cent more,

> according to

> one report. Appearing on a recent Canadian television show, a former

> scientist

> with the Environmental Protection Agency called fluoridation " the biggest

> fraud

> of the century.''

>

> Dr. Foulkes, special consultant to the B.C. Minister of Health.

> Both

> later reversed their recommendations. Wrote Colquhoun in 1982: " Common

> sense

> should tell us that if a poison circulating in a child's body can damage

> tooth-forming cells, then other harm is also likely.''

>

> In the final analysis, perhaps the proof is in the water. So, does

> Limeback

> drink tap water?

>

> I purchase distilled water at a local drugstore and we use it for all our

> beverage needs, " he says. " Look, I've been drinking fluoride for 35 years

> and I'm

> worried.

>

> I have joint problems which cleared up when I switched to non-fluoridated

> water

> . . . fluoride is a pollutant, so why would you want to swallow that

> stuff? "

>

> Downey is a Toronto freelance writer.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Regarding fluoride, get a second opinion from a biological dentist. There

are alternatives.

Best wishes,

[Guest guest]

Thankyou all for your comments, Yes pam I would like to learn more about

this product. I am taking a folic acid tablet daily but it does not stay in

contact with the gums and teeth. thank you again, Sabra

>

>Sabra:

>I definitely have had trouble with fluoride. I too have peridontal disease

>(for several years now), and my ND gave me some stuff called Folirinse,

>which is a liquid folic acid (one of the B vitamins) to rinse with and

>swallow once a day. My dentist was impressed, and wanted to know all about

>it.

>Also, my gums and teeth fair much better when my thyroid is kept at the

>proper level.

>PS If you're interested, I'll try to find more info on the Folirinse...

>Pam

________________________________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

[Guest guest]

Sabra,

I would suggest you try CoQ-10 (Coenzyme Q-10) for your gums, it does make a

difference!

Marcia

Attachment: vcard [not shown]

[Guest guest]

I just did a simple google search and tons of stuff came up. I just typed

'fluoride and thyroid'.

----Original Message Follows----

From: " wolf4lady " <junk13@...>

Reply-hypothyroidism

hypothyroidism

Subject: Re: any ideas helpful

Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 18:39:22 -0000

Carol,

Unfortunately, no, I do not know of a link off the top of my head--I

think my cousin may (she's an herbalist) and she was the first person

to mention to me that fluoride suppresses thyroid. I have, however,

seen it in many places since, but I can't remember where.

I am going to email my cousin about it and see if she knows? I'll

let you know what she says.

And --I'm glad we don't agree on everything on this board--it

gives us all more options to look into if one thing doesn't work!

Very scary about estrogen in the water (yet another thing that

suppresses thyroid--and explains how it is that I have cancer cells

of the cervix and uterus in only one year since my last normal pap!

Estrogen is known for acclerating the growth of cancerous cells in

women--hence the government SUSPENDED studies about hormone

replacement therapy in menopausal women due to the jump in cancer

cases in women with HRT.)

Thanks for the information!

Shimiah

_________________________________________________________________

Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

[Guest guest]

wonder if you bookmarked

the site where you found this information. If so,

could you pass it along?

I didn't keep it, but did a search, and I think this is it. I see quite a

few people are quoting it in their own sites.

http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/chris/2005/05/17/fluoride_to_make_prisoners_stup\

id_docile.htm

May 14, 2005

I see from re-reading that I got two things slightly mixed up.

Warning: This may be disturbing content to some readers.

" To whom it may concern: I, Oliver Goff, . . . attended Communist

underground training schools . . . schooled in the art of revolutionary

overthrow of the established Government. . . discussed quite thoroughly the

fluoridation of water supplies and how we were using it in Russia as a

tranquilizer in the prison camps. The leaders ...felt that if it could be

induced into American water supply, would bring about a spirit of lethargy

in the nation; ..keep general public docile during steady encroachment of

Communism. ...keeping a store of deadly fluoride near water reservoir

advantageous during revolution,...opportunity to dump poison into water

supply and either kill off populace or threaten them with liquidation, so

that they would surrender to obtain fresh water. . . it was felt by

leadership that if program of fluoridating the water could be carried out

....go a long way toward the advancement of the revolution. " Oliver

Goff, 1957 .............

In scheme, sodium fluoride will in time reduce individual's power to resist

domination by slowly poisoning and narcotising certain area of brain,

....make him submissive to will of those who wish to govern him. Both Germans

and Russians added fluoride to drinking water of prisoners of war to make

them stupid and docile. "

http://curezone.com/forums/m.asp?f=237 & i=2366;

http://www.newswithviews.com/Devvy/kidd102.htm;

http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/forum/msg82610.html;

etc

But the next one seems to come from Hansard, the official record of

proceedings in the Australian Parliament:

http://www.trunkerton.fsnet.co.uk/fluoride_fantasies.htm

'Address in Reply to the Government's Speech to Parliament " , ...n

Hansard of 12 August 1987, by Mr Harley Rivers Dickinson, Liberal Party

Member of the n Parliament for South Barwon. ... ... " At end of

Second World War, United States Government sent Eliot Perkins, a

research worker in chemistry, biochemistry, physiology and pathology, ...

vast Farben chemical plants in Germany. " ... told by the German chemists of

scheme worked out by them during war and adopted by German General Staff. ..

to control the population in any given area through mass medication of

drinking water. In this scheme, sodium fluoride occupied a prominent place.

" Repeated doses of infinitesimal amounts of fluoride will in time reduce an

individual's power to resist domination by slowly poisoning and narcotising

a certain area of the brain and will thus make him submissive to will of

those who wish to govern him. " Both Germans and Russians added sodium

fluoride to drinking water of prisoners of war to make them stupid and

docile. " ... chemical engineer, Mr. Perkins, related how immediately after

Second World War he was one of Americans put into well-known I.G. Farben

Company in Germany. There he discovered I.G. Farben had developed plans

during war to fluoridate occupied countries, because ...fluoridation caused

slight damage to specific part of brain. This damage had a very particular

effect...more difficult for the person affected to defend his freedom. he

became more docile towards authority. " Scientists in camps of both

opponents and proponents of fluoride have always dismissed this story as

mere poppycock, but it had a life of its own and reared its head time and

again. It fed the suspicions of many people that 'there was more to

fluoridation than meets the eye'. " As far as I know, there is no one who

has done any serious research into whether the fluoridated person is really

more docile, easier to rule, more impressed by authority than the

non-fluoridated ones. There is, though, one peculiar thing: every Dutch

doctor has a medical reference book .. heading, " major tranquillisers " . ..

seven of them are a fluoride compound. ...Semap. ..one of the strongest

anti-psychotic substances ...twenty-five per cent of major tranquillisers

connected with fluoride... Australian military establishments provide their

own (fluoridated) water for troops ...for official reason ...good for

developing teeth...another more obscure, less altruistic reason for drug

'treatment' of troops.,, certain happenings relative to ex-trainees

....paradoxical effects of fluorides on behaviour of human being.... In 1939

American Aluminium Company (Alcoa), then probably world's largest producer

of sodium fluoride, transferred its technology to Germany (Alted

Agreement).,, In Australia, Dental Health and Research Foundation ... other

ex-I.G. Farben associates listed ... irreverently but accurately dubbed " the

fluoride mafia " ... the data of the 'thorough investigations' said to have

been carried out by the latter 'foundation' into halogen fluoride, its

benefits and its hazards, have never been made available despite numerous

appeals.

In a letter ..Fluoridation and Lawlessness ...Committee for Mental Health

and National Security) ... Eliot Perkins, ...said...real reason

behind water fluoridation ... reduce the resistance of the masses to

domination and control and loss of liberty... ... scheme of mass control

through water medication seized upon by Russian Communists because it fitted

ideally into their plan to Communize world......any person who drinks

artificially fluorinated water for a period of one year or more will never

again be same person, mentally or physically. " ......Major Racey

Jordan in charge of massive 'lend-lease airlift'... queried transshipment

.... of sodium fluoride ... to Russia. told 'frankly' that it was to put into

drinking water in prisoner-of-war camps to take away will to resist....The

published knowledge ...available ...as witness such entries as " Fluoricum

Acidum " (Encyclopedia of Pure 'Materia Medica',). ,,.. converted negative

embarrassment of mounting industrial waste to huge positive profit

increase - processes other countries hastened to emulate: ...enormous outlet

for fluorides in fluoridation of water supplies ..... Sodium silico-fluoride

waste constituent from refining of phosphate rock, until a 'use' could be

found or created for waste. A letter (reproduced below) for United States

Environmental Protection Agency throws spotlight on unique 'waste disposal

via the public kidney' concept created,........ As example of

administratively approved industrial output, first stage of Portland

(, Australia) smelter issued with pollution licence to discharge to

environment 70 tonnes per year of fluoride in gaseous and particulate forms.

.... possible this amount greatly exceeded because no monitoring of

discharges executed. ... 12 months after starting of smelting operations,

unknown but allegedly high number of pot-room workers ...acquired 'pot-room

asthma' - anti-cholinergic damage.... little Burton who had

non-prescription fluorinated dental decay-prevention tablets (sodium

fluoride) provided for him by loving parents who were in total ignorance of

their fluoride toxic hazard. ingested a lethal dose of these tablets

and died. We only know about because the doctor recognised accurately

and conscientiously registered the cause of his death. The existence of the

death certificate has actually been denied by pro-fluoride Australian

'scientists' in reply to queries from overseas scientists..... The major

tranquillisers, ...all fluorinated. All are anti-cholinergic agents with

intentional effects on central nervous systems allied with cardiac and

respiratory depression. ... in Australia hazardous fluorinated

anti-metabolic agents and anti-cholinergic agents enjoy federal and state

government approval and subsidised distribution, whilst safe nutritional

substances, vitally necessary to combat and repair systemic chronic toxic

injury wrought by " free drugs " , available only at considerable cost to

victim. Furthermore, bureaucracy that approved 'killers' sought to restrict

public access to remedial supplements. Some local councils even infringe

laws of medical prescription and issue free sodium fluoride tablets for

dosing of children without any warning, much less any advice on

antidotes..... Enough already!

There are some other sites to that came up while I was looking, though I

don't know anything about their reliability and don't endorse any particular

wheelbarrows they may be pushing. I enjoy conspiracy theory as much as the

next sceptic, but I am not promulgating it, and came to the site originally

in a search for info on mercury and amalgam.

http://www.gargoylemechanique.com/chama/chemtrails_overview.html Germany

used fluoride to keep their prisoners dumbed down and tired. It is the

effect of damage to the T-3 thyroid hormone process.

http://www.artemodus.de/cars/warnews.html

http://www.ummah.net.pk/dajjal/fluor1.html Fluoride in combination with

Aluminum becomes extra toxic... Compound 1080 contains Fluoride ...used

against coyotes .. tasteless, odorless, slow acting poison ...no antidote.

Classified " super toxic " poison, it only takes 1/500 of an ounce to kill a

150 pound human.200 mg will kill a small child. ...150 symptoms connected

with Hypothyroidism correlated to Fluoride poisoning. Especially chinchillas

but also hamsters, guinea pigs, mice, rats and rabbits etc. sterilized at a

very low concentration. Lower than in typical drinking water. Just a small

amount (1/2 mg) decreases reaction time The cooking of vegetables in

Fluoridated water can increase concentration of Fluoride in vegetables up to

over 100 times, apart from reducing vitamins, minerals, oils and enzymes ...

buy soda pop in glass bottles only. not Aluminum cans. ..presence of

fluoride in water, juice made from concentrate mixed with ordinary water,

toothpaste etc. can also increase uptake of Aluminum from can, tube or

aluminum kettles.

etc etc etc

[Guest guest]

Dear Rowena,

Thank you for your much appreciated research!

____________________________________________________

Sports

Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football

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[Guest guest]

While political discussion are a no-no for this list, I feel I need

to say something here.

In the 1950s there was a lot of demonizing of the communists.

Propaganda (lies) were told. Agent provocateurs would infiltrate groups

and make statements which were later attributed to the communists. Now, I

am not a communist. And I sure do not favor fluoride in my drinking water.

But it sure seems to me like Oliver Goff could well either be a

made-up person, or someone who is trying to make the communists look

particularly evil.

These days it is popular to do smear campaigns against Moslems for

political reasons. There are people who like to demonize some external foe

to remove scrutiny of the creepy stuff going within the US.

Alobar

Re: Fluoride

> wonder if you bookmarked

> the site where you found this information. If so,

> could you pass it along?

>

>

> I didn't keep it, but did a search, and I think this is it. I see quite a

> few people are quoting it in their own sites.

>

http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/chris/2005/05/17/fluoride_to_make_prisoners_stup\

id_docile.htm

> May 14, 2005

> I see from re-reading that I got two things slightly mixed up.

> Warning: This may be disturbing content to some readers.

>

> " To whom it may concern: I, Oliver Goff, . . . attended

> Communist

> underground training schools . . . schooled in the art of revolutionary

> overthrow of the established Government. . . discussed quite thoroughly

> the

> fluoridation of water supplies and how we were using it in Russia as a

> tranquilizer in the prison camps. The leaders ...felt that if it could be

> induced into American water supply, would bring about a spirit of lethargy

> in the nation; ..keep general public docile during steady encroachment of

> Communism. ...keeping a store of deadly fluoride near water reservoir

> advantageous during revolution,...opportunity to dump poison into water

> supply and either kill off populace or threaten them with liquidation, so

> that they would surrender to obtain fresh water. . . it was felt by

> leadership that if program of fluoridating the water could be carried out

> ...go a long way toward the advancement of the revolution. " Oliver

> Goff, 1957 .............

[Guest guest]

this toxic chemical in any amount is dangerous and should be avoided at all

costs. prozac might help with your depression for a little while, but what is

it ultimately doing to your body and mind? You don't know, the doctors don't

know, and by the time you figure it out the damage has been done. fluoride is

linked to osteosarcoma. i'd die of thirst before i drank water with this

crap in it.

[Guest guest]

this toxic chemical in any amount is dangerous and should be avoided at all

costs. prozac might help with your depression for a little while, but what is

it ultimately doing to your body and mind? You don't know, the doctors don't

know, and by the time you figure it out the damage has been done. fluoride is

linked to osteosarcoma. i'd die of thirst before i drank water with this

crap in it.

[Guest guest]

Before we get too carried away on the anti-big business stuff, let's just

remember the history of fluorides. It was observed nearly 100 years back by

dentists in certain communities that a lot of the local population had

mottled teeth, which was perceived as being unsightly. Then they did a few

statistics and found that these people's teeth were a lot stronger and they

had much fewer cavities and fillings. Investigations showed that the key

factor was high natural levels of fluoride in the water. The push to get

fluorides in toothpaste came jointly from the dental profession (with the

laudable aim of reducing the number of fillings they had to do) and

consumers. Fluoridation of water was proposed in quite a lot of communities

in the UK and Europe as well as the US/Canada. I don't think many adopted

it; there was some uncertainty, but also more of a feeling on cost grounds

that it was wasteful to fluoridate a whole water supply when most of it

would go down baths, sinks, toilets, hosepipes etc. Fluoride toothpaste

seemed a more sensible way to go as it was directed at the specific area

that needed it.

The composition of " salt " is always going to vary depending on its source.

Any salt from anywhere (rock or sea) will contain mainly chloride, but also

greater or lesser amounts of fluoride, bromide and iodide, besides countless

other things. They are all very closely chemically related (halides,

compounds of halogens) and can't easily be separated from each other. The

chemical similarity would also the reason why high levels of fluoride have

been reported to give " goitre " effects (low thyroid due to iodine

deficiency). Normally the levels required are far beyond those which one

could ingest in salt in food - but I guess salt baths and salt lamps could

give you a higher dose. Difficult to know without actually measuring it,

and testing the individual impact it has on your body. For anyone with

hypothyroidism, though, (and this seems to be the case with quite a lot of

ME/MCS/ES people), it does seem to be something to consider. Incidentally,

brine baths, Dead Sea baths/mudpacks, and sea bathing will all give similar

effects of exposure to a wide range of halides but evidently most people do

not suffer any problems from them.

Ian

_____

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of

tayloka_40

Sent: 13 March 2006 05:10

Subject: Re: Himalayan Salt alert

...I think the jist of the article is that salt is salt. No mountain

makes it magical or

any better, as for efficacy. It would stand to reason this salt would be

higher in fluoride

since the water table source is supposed to be exposed to fluorines in the

earth.

Similar to the fluorines found in tea. It is a wise eye to watch for

fluoridation in all food

processing. There are fluoridated water drinks for kids...Flo Go....a little

dinasaur on the

package with articial flavours....thankfully...LOLOLOL...no colour

added...LMAO...

No colour just fluoride so you can watch your kids glow in the dark....or

bones melt...or

thyroid...or ADD or ADHD or sterility or depression, teeth malformation,

sterility.

BUT.....it is good for you. The United States and Canada (we are the

lemmings/sheep here)

are the only countries that fluoridate water. Money talks. Need to dispose

of a few

thousand pounds of toxic...radioactive...fluoric acid (byproduct of smelting

industrly)

Oh...Oh...here is a good idea....let's put it up for sale...tell everyone it

is good for them.

Viola' we will teach these North Americans how to digest radiation...

Go team go.

>

> > I ran across this the other day, so be careful to double, double check

> > where your himalayan salt is coming from if that is the kind you use.

> > http://www.bruha.com/pfpc/html/himalaya.html

> >

> > ~ Snoshoe

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

The Nazi's used Fluor in order to sterilize the prisoners.

Fluor is very poisonous.

Greetings,

Claessens

member Verband Baubiologie

www.milieuziektes.nl

www.milieuziektes.be

www.hetbitje.nl

checked by Norton Antivirus

Re: Himalayan Salt alert

>

>

> ...I think the jist of the article is that salt is salt. No mountain

> makes it magical or

> any better, as for efficacy. It would stand to reason this salt would be

> higher in fluoride

> since the water table source is supposed to be exposed to fluorines in the

> earth.

>

> Similar to the fluorines found in tea. It is a wise eye to watch for

> fluoridation in all food

> processing. There are fluoridated water drinks for kids...Flo Go....a

> little

> dinasaur on the

> package with articial flavours....thankfully...LOLOLOL...no colour

> added...LMAO...

>

> No colour just fluoride so you can watch your kids glow in the dark....or

> bones melt...or

> thyroid...or ADD or ADHD or sterility or depression, teeth malformation,

> sterility.

>

> BUT.....it is good for you. The United States and Canada (we are the

> lemmings/sheep here)

> are the only countries that fluoridate water. Money talks. Need to dispose

> of a few

> thousand pounds of toxic...radioactive...fluoric acid (byproduct of

> smelting

> industrly)

>

> Oh...Oh...here is a good idea....let's put it up for sale...tell everyone

> it

> is good for them.

> Viola' we will teach these North Americans how to digest radiation...

>

> Go team go.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>>

>> > I ran across this the other day, so be careful to double, double check

>> > where your himalayan salt is coming from if that is the kind you use.

>> > http://www.bruha.com/pfpc/html/himalaya.html

>> >

>> > ~ Snoshoe

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

[Guest guest]

Ah, but what is fluor? Certainly not sodium fluoride! Much of the argument

I have seen against fluoride has been based on confusion between fluorine

(the halogen, poisonous, active, greenish-yellow gas) and fluoride (halide

compound).

It's the same as if one said that chlorine gas is very poisonous (which it

is) and was used by the Nazis to kill people in the gas chambers (which it

was - it was also the main poison gas used in World War 1) that we should

avoid all chlorides. The chemical relationship between them is precisely the

same as for fluorine and fluoride. OK - except that sodium chloride is the

main constituent of table salt, sea salt and salt lamps!

Ian

_____

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of

charles

Sent: 13 March 2006 13:36

Subject: Re: Fluoride

The Nazi's used Fluor in order to sterilize the prisoners.

Fluor is very poisonous.

Greetings,

Claessens

member Verband Baubiologie

www.milieuziektes.nl

www.milieuziektes.be

www.hetbitje.nl

checked by Norton Antivirus

Re: Himalayan Salt alert

>

>

> ...I think the jist of the article is that salt is salt. No mountain

> makes it magical or

> any better, as for efficacy. It would stand to reason this salt would be

> higher in fluoride

> since the water table source is supposed to be exposed to fluorines in the

> earth.

>

> Similar to the fluorines found in tea. It is a wise eye to watch for

> fluoridation in all food

> processing. There are fluoridated water drinks for kids...Flo Go....a

> little

> dinasaur on the

> package with articial flavours....thankfully...LOLOLOL...no colour

> added...LMAO...

>

> No colour just fluoride so you can watch your kids glow in the dark....or

> bones melt...or

> thyroid...or ADD or ADHD or sterility or depression, teeth malformation,

> sterility.

>

> BUT.....it is good for you. The United States and Canada (we are the

> lemmings/sheep here)

> are the only countries that fluoridate water. Money talks. Need to dispose

> of a few

> thousand pounds of toxic...radioactive...fluoric acid (byproduct of

> smelting

> industrly)

>

> Oh...Oh...here is a good idea....let's put it up for sale...tell everyone

> it

> is good for them.

> Viola' we will teach these North Americans how to digest radiation...

>

> Go team go.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>>

>> > I ran across this the other day, so be careful to double, double check

>> > where your himalayan salt is coming from if that is the kind you use.

>> > http://www.bruha.com/pfpc/html/himalaya.html

>> >

>> > ~ Snoshoe

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

[Guest guest]

Ian...water fluoridation proposal? Are you in Canada or the US? Canada

Fluoridates. US

Fluoridates. Most NA has adopted water fluoridation because it is cheap. My area

started

fluoridating in late 1980s. As far as what is reported to the WHO, only cities

in Canada and

the US DO fluoridate. No European countries fluoridate their water.

The actual use of fluoride in products does NOT have 100 year history. At

best....maybe

40.

Fluorine is a naturally occuring element that was synthesized for use in

commercial and

industrial uses.

Fluorine...the stuff that is naturally occuring in the earth has 9 protons and

10 nuetrons

and when exposed to the atmosphere it is a COLOURLESS orderless gas. When coal

is

expposed to the processing cycle to make electricity, fluorine is the

by-product. It is

compressed in the coal.

Fluorine, in my industry (oil & gas analysis), and I would suspect in most

industries is

considered a hydrocarbon. It is a constiuent in all fossil fuels...oil, gas,

coal. Volcaoes emit

fluorine gas, along with a host of other gases. Earth quakes emit fluorine gas.

When Fluorine is in the atmosphere it combines with other airborne molecules and

forms

other gases that can have attributes of colour etc. When fluorine is exposed to

sunlight it

becomes hydrogen fluorine.

The fluoride we use.....it is used in plastics, cooking products (teflon),

household cleaning

products, transmission fluid, jet liner fluid is stabalized with fluoric acid so

it does not

freeze at high altitudes. Fluoride is used in most poisons, herbacides...is it

the primary

constiuent in compound 1080...which by the way a BIG load is missing from

Nebraska I

think. That is the compound the germans discovered to quickly eliminate the rats

in

germany. It was very effective.

It is used in medicine...like vioxx, celebrex, prozac, anesthetics, oh this list

is too long for

here.

Let me see, they use fluoridated water to reconstitute juice. In Canada, our

Health Ministry

issued a report about baby formula....a toxc cocktail that should bear a warning

label.

Canada could not PUBLISH that report in the US. Blocked by manufacturers. Who

makes

baby formula? There is fluoride in baby formula.

Oh...US munitions are made from Uranium Hexa-fluoride. Gets real hot to pierce

the

tanks.

Drip...drip....drip....adding a drop a day of fluoride from multiple sources

puts most North

Americans in the range of exposure between 10 to 20 mg a day.

There are reports on what that quantity did to rats. DuPont has published this.

Most of the

ES symptoms discussed on this board are attributable to a calcium channel

blocking agent.

That is what electricty and light does. At various concentrations of course.

This is not anti - big business.....no...it certainly is not...is for the

advocation of

responsible decision making regardless of how big your business is. I would

suggest, that

even if you had one employee....and you are responsble for products that touch

millions...then I would say you have a " big " business and a responsibility to

conduct that

business in such way that causes no harm.

Money over souls.

Take care

> >

> > > I ran across this the other day, so be careful to double, double check

> > > where your himalayan salt is coming from if that is the kind you use.

> > > http://www.bruha.com/pfpc/html/himalaya.html

> > >

> > > ~ Snoshoe

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Ian...water fluoridation proposal? Are you in Canada or the US? Canada

Fluoridates. US

Fluoridates. Most NA has adopted water fluoridation because it is cheap. My area

started

fluoridating in late 1980s. As far as what is reported to the WHO, only cities

in Canada and

the US DO fluoridate. No European countries fluoridate their water.

The actual use of fluoride in products does NOT have 100 year history. At

best....maybe

40.

Fluorine is a naturally occuring element that was synthesized for use in

commercial and

industrial uses.

Fluorine...the stuff that is naturally occuring in the earth has 9 protons and

10 nuetrons

and when exposed to the atmosphere it is a COLOURLESS orderless gas. When coal

is

expposed to the processing cycle to make electricity, fluorine is the

by-product. It is

compressed in the coal.

Fluorine, in my industry (oil & gas analysis), and I would suspect in most

industries is

considered a hydrocarbon. It is a constiuent in all fossil fuels...oil, gas,

coal. Volcaoes emit

fluorine gas, along with a host of other gases. Earth quakes emit fluorine gas.

When Fluorine is in the atmosphere it combines with other airborne molecules and

forms

other gases that can have attributes of colour etc. When fluorine is exposed to

sunlight it

becomes hydrogen fluorine.

The fluoride we use.....it is used in plastics, cooking products (teflon), PFOA

products (all

plastics basically), household cleaning products, transmission fluid, window

washer fluid,

jet liner fluid is stabalized with fluoric acid so it does not freeze at high

altitudes. Fluoride

is used in most poisons, herbacides...is it the primary constiuent in compound

1080...which by the way a BIG load is missing from Nebraska I think. That is the

compound the germans discovered to quickly eliminate the rats in germany. It was

very

effective.

It is used in medicine...like vioxx, celebrex, prozac, anesthetics, oh this list

is too long for

here. Toothpaste, whiteners....and if we think that fluoride is not reacting

with sugars,

chlorides, it is a bonding agent afferall....inside of our bodies then we have

fooled

ourselves by chemistry. The truth about chemistiry is that every molecule on the

face of

this earth gets to do the proton/nuetron dance....I think I hear music to

this...LOLOL....chemstiry is dynamic and keeps happening even when we cannot see

those

chemical reactions occur.

Let me see, they use fluoridated water to reconstitute juice. In Canada, our

Health Ministry

issued a report about baby formula....a toxc cocktail that should bear a warning

label.

Canada could not PUBLISH that report in the US. Blocked by manufacturers. Who

makes

baby formula? There is fluoride in baby formula.

Oh...US munitions are made from Uranium Hexa-fluoride. Gets real hot to pierce

the

tanks.

Drip...drip....drip....adding a drop a day of fluoride from multiple sources

puts most North

Americans in the range of exposure between 10 to 20 mg a day. Let's just say you

put a

bottle of pop (soda), the ones contained in the plastic 2 litre containers, let

that container

stand in the sun....then measure the fluoride level of the pop. Fluoride leaks

from the

plastic because under low levels of heat it becomes unstable. This instability

can be seen

in all plastics. If those plastics store food....yep....dose of fluoride

AGAIN!!!!!

There are reports on what that quantity did to rats. DuPont has published this.

Most of the

ES symptoms discussed on this board are attributable to a calcium channel

blocking agent.

That is what electricty and light does. At various concentrations of course.

This is not anti - big business.....no...it certainly is not...is for the

advocation of

responsible decision making regardless of how big your business is. I would

suggest, that

even if you had one employee....and you are responsble for products that touch

millions...then I would say you have a " big " business and a responsibility to

conduct that

business in such way that causes no harm.

Money over souls.

Take care

> >

> > > I ran across this the other day, so be careful to double, double check

> > > where your himalayan salt is coming from if that is the kind you use.

> > > http://www.bruha.com/pfpc/html/himalaya.html

> > >

> > > ~ Snoshoe

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Yep, most of this is correct (and I do apologise that this is of course an

extremely sensitive subject for you because of your nightmare experience

with fluoric acid which has affected your whole life - I read your story

with horror when you joined the group). But as I said, you can say similar

things for chlorides, bromides, oxides, nitrates etc ... the atom must

always be in its context. Chlorine and hydrogen chloride are nasty

substances, almost as bad as fluorine and HF, but that does not mean we

should be scared of all chlorides or the things that contain them.

Couple of points. I am in the UK, hence it is " proposals " to fluoridate

water (which have been considered locally rather than nationally). Fluorine

is (as you point out) an element, so it is not a hydrocarbon, which is a

compound of carbon and hydrogen. And that, incidentally, means that every

atom of fluorine is natural and has been around since the earth began,

99.99%+ in the form of fluorides, as fluorine is so incredibly reactive that

it does not stay as the element for very long. A fluoride is simply a

chemical compound containing one or more fluorine atoms.

Best wishes, Ian

_____

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of

tayloka_40

Sent: 13 March 2006 16:56

Subject: Re: Fluoride

Ian...water fluoridation proposal? Are you in Canada or the US? Canada

Fluoridates. US

Fluoridates. Most NA has adopted water fluoridation because it is cheap. My

area started

fluoridating in late 1980s. As far as what is reported to the WHO, only

cities in Canada and

the US DO fluoridate. No European countries fluoridate their water.

The actual use of fluoride in products does NOT have 100 year history. At

best....maybe

40.

Fluorine is a naturally occuring element that was synthesized for use in

commercial and

industrial uses.

Fluorine...the stuff that is naturally occuring in the earth has 9 protons

and 10 nuetrons

and when exposed to the atmosphere it is a COLOURLESS orderless gas. When

coal is

expposed to the processing cycle to make electricity, fluorine is the

by-product. It is

compressed in the coal.

Fluorine, in my industry (oil & gas analysis), and I would suspect in most

industries is

considered a hydrocarbon. It is a constiuent in all fossil fuels...oil, gas,

coal. Volcaoes emit

fluorine gas, along with a host of other gases. Earth quakes emit fluorine

gas.

When Fluorine is in the atmosphere it combines with other airborne molecules

and forms

other gases that can have attributes of colour etc. When fluorine is exposed

to sunlight it

becomes hydrogen fluorine.

The fluoride we use.....it is used in plastics, cooking products (teflon),

PFOA products (all

plastics basically), household cleaning products, transmission fluid, window

washer fluid,

jet liner fluid is stabalized with fluoric acid so it does not freeze at

high altitudes. Fluoride

is used in most poisons, herbacides...is it the primary constiuent in

compound

1080...which by the way a BIG load is missing from Nebraska I think. That is

the

compound the germans discovered to quickly eliminate the rats in germany. It

was very

effective.

It is used in medicine...like vioxx, celebrex, prozac, anesthetics, oh this

list is too long for

here. Toothpaste, whiteners....and if we think that fluoride is not reacting

with sugars,

chlorides, it is a bonding agent afferall....inside of our bodies then we

have fooled

ourselves by chemistry. The truth about chemistiry is that every molecule on

the face of

this earth gets to do the proton/nuetron dance....I think I hear music to

this...LOLOL....chemstiry is dynamic and keeps happening even when we cannot

see those

chemical reactions occur.

Let me see, they use fluoridated water to reconstitute juice. In Canada, our

Health Ministry

issued a report about baby formula....a toxc cocktail that should bear a

warning label.

Canada could not PUBLISH that report in the US. Blocked by manufacturers.

Who makes

baby formula? There is fluoride in baby formula.

Oh...US munitions are made from Uranium Hexa-fluoride. Gets real hot to

pierce the

tanks.

Drip...drip....drip....adding a drop a day of fluoride from multiple sources

puts most North

Americans in the range of exposure between 10 to 20 mg a day. Let's just say

you put a

bottle of pop (soda), the ones contained in the plastic 2 litre containers,

let that container

stand in the sun....then measure the fluoride level of the pop. Fluoride

leaks from the

plastic because under low levels of heat it becomes unstable. This

instability can be seen

in all plastics. If those plastics store food....yep....dose of fluoride

AGAIN!!!!!

There are reports on what that quantity did to rats. DuPont has published

this. Most of the

ES symptoms discussed on this board are attributable to a calcium channel

blocking agent.

That is what electricty and light does. At various concentrations of course.

This is not anti - big business.....no...it certainly is not...is for the

advocation of

responsible decision making regardless of how big your business is. I would

suggest, that

even if you had one employee....and you are responsble for products that

touch

millions...then I would say you have a " big " business and a responsibility

to conduct that

business in such way that causes no harm.

Money over souls.

Take care

> >

> > > I ran across this the other day, so be careful to double, double check

> > > where your himalayan salt is coming from if that is the kind you use.

> > > http://www.bruha.com/pfpc/html/himalaya.html

> > >

> > > ~ Snoshoe

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

First hello all, I hope this is one of your better days for everyone.

The fluoride combined with things can be hydrocarbons:

" ...yielding systems that are capable of detecting fluoridated

hydrocarbons (perfluorocarbons --PFCs)... "

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:_4Ylt-

v20wMJ:www.arl.noaa.gov/pubs/online/corereview/programs.pdf+fluoridate

d+hydrocarbons & hl=en & gl=us & ct=clnk & cd=1 -This is a pretty

interesting page actually, talks about mercury in the air about half

way down as well.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=9663733 & dopt=Abstract 1of6

fluoridated hydrocarbons.

For anyone wanting to know more about fluoride all around,

http://fluoridealert.org/ will keep you busy for days.

The best info. comes from the far east and India it seems. After

all, they don't see it as healthy.

Sodium fluoride or whatever combination, is toxic, that one

particularly is carcinogenic. No we can't avoid it on this planet,

but we can certainly reduce deliberate exposures. I have a friend

who is trying to get me a sample tested in Guyana to get water tested

for a fluoride level. It causes lower female cancers even at very

low levels, but of course we in the west haven't tested for that,

openly anyhow. They have a very high level of cervical cancer there,

and that is one possible reason. I hope they're able to get me the

results.

It all depends on each individuals load they can take, not only of

that, but all toxins, when it is given in smaller doses. When it's

reached, we fall apart. When all toddlers tested but ONE came back

with over 200 chemical residues in their systems, there's a good

start on a load that shouldn't even exist at that age. The one, was

raised on a strictly organically grown diet. Even that has

pollutions in it these days, depending what they looked for. I doubt

fluoride level was one.

A problem I see with fluoride, for us here, is that it so binds to

aluminum, and it crosses blood/brain barrier. Excess aluminum for

alzheimer's, there's one way it gets crossed over, plus that people

have mentioned here recently how glutens and emf's open that barrier

as well.

We are/becoming electrical conductors, in body, and mind, far more

than what we were naturally intended. Just time before even more

reach this critical load.

~ Snoshoe

>

> Hi ,

>

> Yep, most of this is correct (and I do apologise that this is of

course an

> extremely sensitive subject for you because of your nightmare

experience

> with fluoric acid which has affected your whole life - I read your

story

> with horror when you joined the group). But as I said, you can say

similar

> things for chlorides, bromides, oxides, nitrates etc ... the atom

must

> always be in its context. Chlorine and hydrogen chloride are nasty

> substances, almost as bad as fluorine and HF, but that does not

mean we

> should be scared of all chlorides or the things that contain them.

>

> Couple of points. I am in the UK, hence it is " proposals " to

fluoridate

> water (which have been considered locally rather than nationally).

Fluorine

> is (as you point out) an element, so it is not a hydrocarbon, which

is a

> compound of carbon and hydrogen. And that, incidentally, means

that every

> atom of fluorine is natural and has been around since the earth

began,

> 99.99%+ in the form of fluorides, as fluorine is so incredibly

reactive that

> it does not stay as the element for very long. A fluoride is

simply a

> chemical compound containing one or more fluorine atoms.

>

> Best wishes, Ian

>

[Guest guest]

Ian, thank you for the thoughts. I wouldn't say I was " over " sensative to this

issue. Despite

my experience. It is my professional opinion, I feel after 20 years in the

business and

educational experience in the area (University Degree - Canadian) I feel

entitled to make

one.....if there were a " Grandfather " of all the elements it would be Fluorine.

All chemicals are dangerous. Exposure to most causes dire and severe

consequances to

the human body.

Fluorine as it is compressed in coal IS a considered what the petroleum industry

calls a

polyarmohydrocarbon. Fluorine is pervasive in its natural source...that being a

" product " of

fossil fuel carbon sources. All gases, I would contend, that eminate from this

source would

contain a fluorine attribute. It would bond in some way.

Fluorine is what makes the earth's core hot. The molecular movement, which by

itself is

somewhat unique because of its structure, keeps the lava molten. The lava acts

like

cartilage between the plates of the earth.

The lines in the press get " slurred " between fluorine and fluoride. The correct

name for the

chemical put into water for " purification " (HAHAHAHAH) purposes is mostly in the

form of

hydrofluorosilicic acid). What is used in toothpaste is sodium fluoride.

This being said, it is recognised by all industry reporting standards that

hydrogen fluoride

is regulated as a hazardous and toxic pollutant that requires special

consideration for

disposal and storage. The petroleum industry uses it pervasivly for refining

petroleum

products.

I don't want to get into a debate about fluoride. From my position, any debate

is moot

because I am not an experiment about what MIGHT happen. I live it. It is pretty

hard to

deal with position about what will NOT happen when it is happening right in

front of you.

Even Harvard University....talk about prestigious...has a recent report that

associated

fluoridation in young boys to a sevenfold increased risk of osteosarcoma. It is

not widely

published as the dental school is associated with Colgate. Conflict of interest

is

immediately apparent.

I am kind of on a " live and let live " cycle here.....what happened to me

happened quickly.

The only difference between what is happening to me and those big boys who make

decisions to fluoridate water is that ...it happens to them too...only slowly.

AND....a bigger difference is that so far...I know what to do to make me feel

better....

Warmly,

> > >

> > > > I ran across this the other day, so be careful to double, double check

> > > > where your himalayan salt is coming from if that is the kind you use.

> > > > http://www.bruha.com/pfpc/html/himalaya.html

> > > >

> > > > ~ Snoshoe

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

, thanks for the clarifications, I guess being a degree level

chemist/chemical engineer myself, I like to be precise on the exact nature

of chemicals and their effects - maybe too pedantic at times! Certainly I

would never want to play down the dangers of hydrofluoric acid itself which

are well known (I remember my father, a chemistry teacher, showing us at

school a picture of a lab worker who had had a pinhole in her rubber glove

and whose finger was reduced inside a minute to a charred stump). I must

admit I found it hard to understand (if I correctly interpreted your

original posts some weeks back) how the company seemed to have managed to

evade responsibility and compensation for the damage you were caused, since

the symptoms sound (unfortunately) classic poisoning by HF or similar.

(Please note I also did not at any time say you were " over " sensitive on

this).

Best wishes, Ian

_____

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of

tayloka_40

Sent: 15 March 2006 00:10

Subject: Re: Fluoride

Ian, thank you for the thoughts. I wouldn't say I was " over " sensative to

this issue. Despite

my experience. It is my professional opinion, I feel after 20 years in the

business and

educational experience in the area (University Degree - Canadian) I feel

entitled to make

one.....if there were a " Grandfather " of all the elements it would be

Fluorine.

Fluorine as it is compressed in coal IS a considered what the petroleum

industry calls a

polyarmohydrocarbon. Fluorine is pervasive in its natural source...that

being a " product " of

fossil fuel carbon sources. All gases, I would contend, that eminate from

this source would

contain a fluorine attribute. It would bond in some way.

Fluorine is what makes the earth's core hot. The molecular movement, which

by itself is

somewhat unique because of its structure, keeps the lava molten. The lava

acts like

cartilage between the plates of the earth.

The lines in the press get " slurred " between fluorine and fluoride. The

correct name for the

chemical put into water for " purification " (HAHAHAHAH) purposes is mostly in

the form of

hydrofluorosilicic acid). What is used in toothpaste is sodium fluoride.

This being said, it is recognised by all industry reporting standards that

hydrogen fluoride

is regulated as a hazardous and toxic pollutant that requires special

consideration for

disposal and storage. The petroleum industry uses it pervasivly for refining

petroleum

products.

>

> Hi ,

>

> Yep, most of this is correct (and I do apologise that this is of course an

> extremely sensitive subject for you because of your nightmare experience

> with fluoric acid which has affected your whole life - I read your story

> with horror when you joined the group). But as I said, you can say

similar

> things for chlorides, bromides, oxides, nitrates etc ... the atom must

> always be in its context. Chlorine and hydrogen chloride are nasty

> substances, almost as bad as fluorine and HF, but that does not mean we

> should be scared of all chlorides or the things that contain them.

>

> Couple of points. I am in the UK, hence it is " proposals " to fluoridate

> water (which have been considered locally rather than nationally).

Fluorine

> is (as you point out) an element, so it is not a hydrocarbon, which is a

> compound of carbon and hydrogen. And that, incidentally, means that every

> atom of fluorine is natural and has been around since the earth began,

> 99.99%+ in the form of fluorides, as fluorine is so incredibly reactive

that

> it does not stay as the element for very long. A fluoride is simply a

> chemical compound containing one or more fluorine atoms.

>

> Best wishes, Ian

>

>

[Guest guest]

You are welcome, Ian. My father was an engineer too, structural. Petroleum

engineering is

a new breed since my father went to school.

I put that " over " into quotes like that because although it was not said it

seemed to

translate back that way. I admit....after what I have been through...I am pretty

darn

amazed that all I am is just " oversensative " to this issue. Most would have a

target in the

crosshair and be bee spitting mad...if bees spit of course. Which I guess they

do when you

think they have to suck out that nectar and all.

*(Hey...we women do that...change subjects like that just to throw you boys off.

Just

adding a bit of brevity here, Ian.)

As for that coal company, I was NOT an employee, I was a private consultant on

contract

carrying my own insurance. Insurance in Canada, so I have learned, is a

complicated thing.

You know, being a chemical engineer, you can see where if that coal mine...drag

line

stripped was big enough, the contamination area from the exposed coal being

destabalized would be enourmous!

Maybe that is why kids are dropping dead up there. Right on the football fields

and ice

rinks. There is a rash of facial cancer here too...hmmmm....we are also

reporting incidents

of rare and almost unheard of autoimmune diseases such as Still's disease and

Scleraderma.

There has been a rash of suicides, thyroid, multiple sclerosis, lymphoma, liver

cancers...in

fact, our local grocery store, Safeway, was offering FREE anemia screening

clinics.

Hmmmm...this is Canada here, Ian, NOT even Canada offers healthcare for free.

Becoming

anemic is classic symptom of radiation exposure.

Let me see, there are young women, my age falling asleep and not waking up.

Strange

drug interactions and reported deaths in hospital.

I don't know...call me silly.....call me a polly anna...but if I am mistaken I

am more than

willing to cough up a most humble apology...but my best professional opinion is

that was

a serious mine accident. One that affected more than just me.

Once they get over the radiation exposure consequences...the government here

might find

cause...oh in about 20 or 30 years when our death rate dramatically increases

and children

are still being born with rare bone diseases...maybe then they might figure this

out. But

then again maybe not.

Going through something like this changes a body, Ian....I approached the coal

mine, had

a long talk with the director....practically his whole family has died...his

wife, a colleague

who was at the mine also is suffering the cancer.

As for my symptoms, sadly, they are classic...right down to the brown mottling

on the

teeth and the lucency in my bones by x-ray. The teeth came rather quick. I

always had

good teeth and it bothers me. One thing I should point out, that mottling only

makes the

teeth strong for a short period of time, eventually the bone just goes away.

Like dust.

The extra fluoride zaps the water.

Oh well.....I appreciate the board for the expression of this information. Be it

ever so

controversial. Ian....you are a good sport.

No harm. No foul.

Warmy,

> >

> > Hi ,

> >

> > Yep, most of this is correct (and I do apologise that this is of course an

> > extremely sensitive subject for you because of your nightmare experience

> > with fluoric acid which has affected your whole life - I read your story

> > with horror when you joined the group). But as I said, you can say

> similar

> > things for chlorides, bromides, oxides, nitrates etc ... the atom must

> > always be in its context. Chlorine and hydrogen chloride are nasty

> > substances, almost as bad as fluorine and HF, but that does not mean we

> > should be scared of all chlorides or the things that contain them.

> >

> > Couple of points. I am in the UK, hence it is " proposals " to fluoridate

> > water (which have been considered locally rather than nationally).

> Fluorine

> > is (as you point out) an element, so it is not a hydrocarbon, which is a

> > compound of carbon and hydrogen. And that, incidentally, means that every

> > atom of fluorine is natural and has been around since the earth began,

> > 99.99%+ in the form of fluorides, as fluorine is so incredibly reactive

> that

> > it does not stay as the element for very long. A fluoride is simply a

> > chemical compound containing one or more fluorine atoms.

> >

> > Best wishes, Ian

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Link will not open . tried a dozen times over an hour.

Cheerss, Doug

Fluoride

> This type of behavior and greed is just beyond comprehension to me.

>

> " Harvard: Prof Did Not " Intentionally " Suppress Fluoride-Cancer Study

> Showing

> Strong Link Between Fluoride and Bone Cancer in Boys "

>

> " It is a sad day for Harvard when such a blatant financial conflict of

> interest

> is acceptable, particularly when the health of children is at stake, "

>

> http://www.ewg.org/issues/fluoride/20060816/index.php

>

>

>

>

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