Re: Re: Taking LDN more than once per day is a NO NO!!

[Guest guest]

Jackie--

I watched the video. I'm not arguing against the effect of OGF (opioid

growth factor) as they are describing it. However, that is not the only

endorphin that is affected by LDN, and to focus all commentary (here on

this list) about LDN as pertaining to the effects of OGF is, in my opinion,

limited and therefore inaccurate. Clearly they understand OGF. But that

leaves out the rest of the endorphin family and why LDN works on so many

other diseases, ones with very different healing requirements than for

cancer. OGF effects do not explain relief of fibromyalgia, for example, but

yet clearly LDN works for fibro.

So my original comments stand. LDN's effects are not all about cell growth

regulation, although that is obviously one way that the effects

manifest. The research they are presenting is about cancer, and they are

looking at an aspect of enhanced endorphin production that helps cancer

patients. However, that does not explain or engage with the other

endorphins that LDN stimulates, nor the other diseases that the resulting

immune-competence heals. Referencing OGF effects as the salient effect in

all illnesses is inaccurate, and that's what I was speaking to. OGF

effects are not the total explanation of why LDN effects work.

And therefore, there is no need to bring any and all discussions of the

mechanisms of LDN back to OGF. That just happens to be the one facet of

the endorphin family that is now well understood.

--

At 01:24 PM 6/11/2010, you wrote:

>,

>

>When you have looked at LDN/OGF effects under an electron microscope, I'll

>be interested

>to hear about what you see. Until then I'll take the word of the people

>who have done that research. Usually when people discuss LDN effects they

>are talking about OGF effects

>as LDN acts as catalyst to OGF production.

>

>OGF is a growth factor that regulates growth rates of every cell in the

>body, not just immune cells, not just cancer cells. Its other function is

>as a neurotransmitter. I don't know if it has others. But as a growth

>factor I believe it is understood to act as such for all cells.

>

> Check out the short video on the homepage of LDN

> Science <http://www.ldnscience.org/>http://www.ldnscience.org/

>

>Jackie

>

>

>

>From: Baker <vbaker@...>

>Subject: Re: [low dose naltrexone] Re: Taking LDN more than once per day is

>a NO NO!!

>low dose naltrexone

>Date: Friday, June 11, 2010, 12:34 PM

>

>

> >Medical science is far from having understood the workings of the human

> >body in their entirety.

>

>This is so true.

>

> > Since LDN/OGF is known to downregulate all cell production, it could

> > well be that that is the very effect they benefit from most.

>

>I doubt this is true. If someone is studying the effect of LDN on cancer

>patients, then they would be seeing downregulated cell production, because

>that is what the body needs in order to heal. LDN isn't actually doing any

>healing work here. It is simply creating a bump in endogenous endorphin

>production, which the body then uses as is needed in order to heal, using

>its own wisdom. We already know that the LDN effect helps people with a

>wide range of illnesses, and that is because it simply allows the body

>optimal conditions for it to heal itself.

>

>So I'm not surprised that studies of cancer patients would show LDN/OGF

>downregulating cell production, but I sincerely doubt that would be found

>to be true for other illnesses. It's a simple fact that the endorphin

>system doesn't simply downregulate cell production. If it did, how would

>wounds heal? Remember that the endorphin system is the body's arsenal

>which it uses to heal whatever ails ye. That is the wisdom of the body.

>

>--

~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

--A.J. Muste

[Guest guest]

>But they don't explain that apart in the video - maybe to avoid scaring

>people.

I think YOU are into scaring people. If you're going to make statements,

you can expect to be asked to support them. Your statements are simply

your own interpretation of whatever you've read. If you can quote some

paragraphs that support this idea that it's possible to overdose on

endorphins, then let's see them. Otherwise, stop saying things that you

can't support. I don't believe that what you're saying is valid, and I note

that I'm not the only person who has asked you to support (other)

statements you've made and which you've refused to do.

Btw, I would note that if what you were saying is true, people wouldn't be

being cured of cancer, which they are, in the form of tumors shrinking and

disappearing, visible on imaging. Because LDN increases endorphin capacity

on a permanent basis.

Thank you.

--

At 08:45 PM 6/11/2010, you wrote:

>I am too tired to explain this tonight - so I will send you a paper or two

>instead.

>Remember, in the video they're discussing LDN not NTX in general. And when

>he says OGF keeps cell growth in control that means it is a regulator of

>growth.

>That means if they must grow fast OGF regulates that growth, if they need

>slower growth

>OGF regulates that too. Not enough OGF is problematic. Enough is

>optimal. Much more OGF speeds cell growth - you'll see...

>But they don't explain that apart in the video - maybe to avoid scaring

>people.

>

>Jackie

>

>

> >

> > From: Baker <vbaker@...>

> > Subject: Re: [low dose naltrexone] Re: Taking LDN more than once per day

> is a NO NO!!

> > low dose naltrexone

> > Date: Friday, June 11, 2010, 5:49 PM

> >

> >

> > Jackie-- Thank you for writing that we don't know how it works for diseases

> > other than cancer. Your recent posts didn't express that, and that's why I

> > felt the need to clarify.

> >

> > I continue to maintain that because the wisdom of the body is what is

> > actually doing the healing here, whatever type of healing that a body needs

> > is how the endorphins will be applied by the body. Unlike other pharma

> > drugs, the body's endorphins are perfectly capable of making distinctions

> > between a need to prevent cell growth and the need to boost it, depending

> > on the illness involved. Unlike pharma drugs, a person cannot overdose on

> > endorphins.

> >

> > That is how this single drug can be useful in such a wide range of

> > illnesses, as someone recently posted their doctor complained in a negative

> > way. It's because the drug in question is not telling the body what to do,

> > except for the brief blockade that increases the best healing substances in

> > the world-- the body's own endorphins.

> >

> > btw, I have been in tune with the research into endorphins since the 80s

> > when it first started coming out, so this is not a new area of thought for

> > me. My understanding of endorphins is why I jumped on LDN when I

> learned of it.

> >

> > --

>

>

>~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

> --A.J. Muste

>

>

>

>

>

>

>No virus found in this incoming message.

>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

>Version: 9.0.829 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2932 - Release Date: 06/11/10

>13:35:00

~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

--A.J. Muste

[Guest guest]

This idea that now we have to fear a component of our own chemistry, a part

of our immune system that is only positive, is simply wrong. Ain't

true. And fomenting fear about our immune systems, when we're all trying

to get ourselves optimal, is also simply wrong. It's anti-healing and

downright unfriendly.

--

At 10:34 PM 6/11/2010, you wrote:

>Yep, that's my experience.

>

>

> [low dose naltrexone] Re: Taking LDN more than once per day is a NO

>NO!!

>

>Jackie,

>don't most people report having fingernails and hair grow faster on LDN? I

>think I remember reading that and it seems true for me. If true, then

>down-regulation of cell growth can't be the only effect for all cell types.

>

>

>

> > The OGF/OGFr axis by which cell growth is downregulated explains how

> cancer iscontrolled through LDN/OGF. �But this downregulation effect is

> applied to the growth of all cells, including certain immune cells.

>

>

>

>------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

huh?

to clarify .. my comment was agreeing with :

"don't most people report having fingernails and hair grow faster on LDN?"

7+ years later, nails and hair are still growing twice as fast as prior to LDN. for whatever that means

[low dose naltrexone] Re: Taking LDN more than once per day is a NO >NO!!>>Jackie,>don't most people report having fingernails and hair grow faster on LDN? I >think I remember reading that and it seems true for me. If true, then >down-regulation of cell growth can't be the only effect for all cell types.>>>> > The OGF/OGFr axis by which cell growth is downregulated explains how > cancer iscontrolled through LDN/OGF. �But this downregulation effect is > applied to the growth of all cells, including certain immune cells.>>>>------------------------------------>>

[Guest guest]

I understand! I was speaking to the background of how this subject

arose, which is the assertion that the LDN effects are to be feared because

it will overstimulate one's immune system, essentially. This is a central

untruth because whereas autoimmune diseases were once thought to be the

result of an overstimulated immune system, it is now understood that

autoimmune problems are because of underfunctioning immmune systems-- there

is basically no such thing as an overstimulated immune system. This idea

that our own immune systems can be stimulated to act against our own best

interests, in the form of either downregulating or overstimulating, is just

not true. The body seeks homeostasis and knows how to manage its

endorphins. --

At 11:40 PM 6/11/2010, LarryGC wrote:

>huh?

>

>to clarify .. my comment was agreeing with :

>

> " don't most people report having fingernails and hair grow faster on LDN? "

>

>

>7+ years later, nails and hair are still growing twice as fast as prior to

>LDN. for whatever that means

>

> [low dose naltrexone] Re: Taking LDN more than once per day is a NO

> >NO!!

> >

> >Jackie,

> >don't most people report having fingernails and hair grow faster on LDN? I

> >think I remember reading that and it seems true for me. If true, then

> >down-regulation of cell growth can't be the only effect for all cell types.

> >

> >

> >

> > > The OGF/OGFr axis by which cell growth is downregulated explains how

> > cancer iscontrolled through LDN/OGF. �But this downregulation effect is

> > applied to the growth of all cells, including certain immune cells.

> >

> >

> >

> >------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I haven't noticed that effect, faster growing hair and nails - in fact I have never heard anyone mention that before. Do you experience such faster growth? And I haven't said downregulation is the only effect - it is a primary effect of OGF in controlling the growth of cancer cells. It may be an essential effect in autoimmune diseases also.Yes, there are other effects but I believe they are not clearly understood yet.JackieFrom: tierneywayne <tierney.wayne@...>Subject: [low dose naltrexone] Re: Taking LDN more than once per day is a NO NO!!To:

low dose naltrexone Date: Friday, June 11, 2010, 10:04 PMJackie,don't most people report having fingernails and hair grow faster on LDN? I think I remember reading that and it seems true for me. If true, then down-regulation of cell growth can't be the only effect for all cell types.> The OGF/OGFr axis by which cell growth is downregulated explains how cancer iscontrolled through LDN/OGF. �But this downregulation effect is applied to the growth of all cells, including certain immune cells. ------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

What processes are behind hair and nail growth? Does protein have a role? If so, could better digestion and absorption of protein be responsible?JackieFrom: LarryGC <larrygc@...>Subject: Re: [low dose naltrexone] Re: Taking LDN more than once per day is a NO NO!!low dose naltrexone Date: Friday, June 11, 2010, 10:34 PM

Yep, that's my experience.

[low dose naltrexone] Re: Taking LDN more than once per day is a NO NO!!

Jackie,don't most people report having fingernails and hair grow faster on LDN? I think I remember reading that and it seems true for me. If true, then down-regulation of cell growth can't be the only effect for all cell types.> The OGF/OGFr axis by which cell growth is downregulated explains how cancer iscontrolled through LDN/OGF. �But this downregulation effect is applied to the growth of all cells, including certain immune cells. ------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

,LDN is not a cure for cancer. When you have read the papers I sent you you will understand OGF is a growth regulator. You could think of it as a sliding switch if that helps.When the switch is set at one end, no power or OGF is released. As you slide the switch along its groove you release more and more power or OGF.At all of the settings along the groove, OGF's influence on cells is slightly different, with thewidest variance being between off and and full on. But the differences between being partly on and full on are also substantial.It's counter-intuitive, the way LDN works to stimulate OGF production, just the right amount and no more. That is part of the reason doctors have difficulty understanding it and can't take the

chance of prescribing it, especially for cancer patients.So please read the papers I sent you - or ask an LDN/OGF researcher for more information.Jackie> >> > From: Baker <vbaker@...>> > Subject: Re:

[low dose naltrexone] Re: Taking LDN more than once per day > is a NO NO!!> > low dose naltrexone > > Date: Friday, June 11, 2010, 5:49 PM> >> >> > Jackie-- Thank you for writing that we don't know how it works for diseases> > other than cancer. Your recent posts didn't express that, and that's why I> > felt the need to clarify.> >> > I continue to maintain that because the wisdom of the body is what is> > actually doing the healing here, whatever type of healing that a body needs> > is how the endorphins will be applied by the body. Unlike other pharma> > drugs, the body's endorphins are perfectly capable of making distinctions> > between a need to prevent cell growth and the need to

boost it, depending> > on the illness involved. Unlike pharma drugs, a person cannot overdose on> > endorphins.> >> > That is how this single drug can be useful in such a wide range of> > illnesses, as someone recently posted their doctor complained in a negative> > way. It's because the drug in question is not telling the body what to do,> > except for the brief blockade that increases the best healing substances in> > the world-- the body's own endorphins.> >> > btw, I have been in tune with the research into endorphins since the 80s> > when it first started coming out, so this is not a new area of thought for> > me. My understanding of endorphins is why I jumped on LDN when I > learned of it.> >> > -->>>~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~>

--A.J. Muste>>>>>>>No virus found in this incoming message.>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com>Version: 9.0.829 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2932 - Release Date: 06/11/10 >13:35:00~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~ --A.J. Muste------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

This is on the LDNScience.org website – hope it helps http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xr-n8jMLenU

Jayne Crocker

www.LDNNow.com

Important! Please sign our LDN petition to the European

Parliament by clicking here

tel: +44 (0) 7877 492 669

Dr Steele MBE, talking about LDN

LDNNow, a patient and friend led organisation (so not a charity)

with no funding and no affiliation to any company or organisation, but rather a

group of concerned individuals focussed on improving the health of those who

suffer from the many diseases and conditions that LDN treats.

_._,___

[Guest guest]

>I haven't noticed that effect, faster growing hair and nails - in fact I

>have never heard anyone mention that before. Do you experience such

>faster growth?

>

>And I haven't said downregulation is the only effect - it is a primary

>effect of OGF in controlling the growth of cancer cells. It may be an

>essential effect in autoimmune diseases also.

>

>Yes, there are other effects but I believe they are not clearly understood

>yet.

Just because they aren't understood doesn't mean they aren't real and

active and major. That is where you're going wrong here, Jackie, is that

only one facet is understood and you keep trying to make all of LDN's

action about one facet, in isolation. That may be useful in the lab but not

in real life.

--

~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

--A.J. Muste

[Guest guest]

I figured that as my body got closer to homeostasis, my outputs just Normalized

My hair and nails grew slower prior to LDN, now they're Faster, by comparison. I always assumed this is how they should have been all along and I just saved a lot of money on razors, and Time.

[low dose naltrexone] Re: Taking LDN more than once per day is a NO NO!!

Jackie,don't most people report having fingernails and hair grow faster on LDN? I think I remember reading that and it seems true for me. If true, then down-regulation of cell growth can't be the only effect for all cell types.> The OGF/OGFr axis by which cell growth is downregulated explains how cancer iscontrolled through LDN/OGF. �But this downregulation effect is applied to the growth of all cells, including certain immune cells. ------------------------------------